Really good video Mrskywalker , the detail of your engineering was executed perfectly as it will save me and others so much learning grief-issues. A huge thank you for putting together the one stop vid shop for grom sidecars and to your viewers for their inputs as well , many minds make the world a greater place 👍
First time I have ever heard or seen this kind of sidecar and I spend a lot of time in the Philippines where there are SO many trike bikes .... This could be a new concept for small scooters over there especially with the quick disconnect ..
Yea its not very common but there is a dedicated forum where this style of sidecar are talked about a good bit. I designed this one with the info from there and it really works well. The trikes in the Philippines are typically much heavier duty and when they are that heavy it doesnt make much sense to make it a leaner as it would be harder to handle and balance(my wife is from Philipines so Ive seen and ridden in the trikes there too).
Only 3 minutes to take it off, and put it back on, and explain toe-in, while filming, without even using a cordless impact driver. Nice job with the rig, and the video.
I guess you learned why the front pivot mount is supposed to be exactly on the bike centerline. With a Grom, I'd guess the speeds will be low enough to not be a problem. I built mine on the Valkyrie centerline for obvious reasons. 6 cylinders = no waiting!
it probably would help but that would need to be a full articulation which is really complex. If you want to ride in wet or adverse conditions better off with a fixed one. Could easily add a support to lock this in place and make it fixed though
Awesome job! I would like to build one for my seca2. I would love to know what pivots are you using, would be awesome if you could send me a link or code number something. The same for the suspension assembly. I tryied to search but either I’m useless or I just can’t find the parts... would apreciate the help. Ths!
For the rod ends I used these end links, but any 3/4 end link would work www.summitracing.com/parts/CEE-6162 Suspension was a mix of ttr125 linkage, basic angle iron and a c3(zuma 50f should be the same) shock. I dont really recommend going this route unless you just had the parts laying around like I did as it has been a major headache re purposing these, ive actually made some improvement since the video but still far from ideal. If I were to do it again(I may as some have expressed interest in buying these as kits) Id design a suspension trailing arm from scratch with pressed in bushing or properly supported bearings so there isnt much torsion/twisting and select a shock from a pitbike like DNM where they have valving and preload adjustments for more fine tuning Hope this helps
Ive had a 180lb guy ride around the block in this one(suspension was just about bottomed) but 120lbs would be perfectly fine. My two dogs combine will be right around 100lbs and the little testing I did seemed ok
Thank you. I came looking for instructions on how to build a side car, and you came as suggestion with the motorcycle I want to build one for, and for the same reason I want to build one for. I lost one of my dogs recently, and I want to travel with the other one on my MSX. I have an idea on how to attach it to the frame, on the exhaust mounting points, which mine has 2 (SF), and where you have your case bracket on the back. I already have a mount for side panniers, just need to take the rack off and bolt on the side car. I am not keen on bolting anything to the bottom of the engine as you have, over these two years how has that worked for you?
I mean, a trailer would be stupidly easier to build and carry, but I wouldn't be able to keep an eye on my dog, nor could I talk to him whilst riding. It's my dog, not luggage.
@@zefautino Technically its not mounted directly to the engine, the rear is attached to the rod on the frame the rear set attaches to and the front mounts to the cage (it is only half mounted to the engine the top goes to the engine mount on the frame) so it doesnt really stress the motor. As for how has it been holding up I honestly havent used it much in the last year but I do have about 1k miles on it and no issues at all. Id honestly have no worries putting it on with 50-60lbs in the sidecar and do a long adv trip. I am actually thinking about putting a mount for a mtb so I can take it to the local trails I ride a few times a week. I had considered having it modular to convert between a sidecar and a trailer but like you said theres just something about having it next to you, especially with the pup in it.
@@mrskywalker115 I'm going to find out how to do it as I cut and weld. I don't have the industrial tools needed to make it look as good as yours does, a disk grinder, a drill and a welding machine is all I have, it's what I'll use. I can't bend metal. Plus "recycled" steel bars, a used shock absorber, maybe I can get a beaten up scooter wheel (12"), and as I don't want him to be cold, I'll have to buy plexiglass so he doesn't get his eyes dry, and pvc sheets for the rest of the "cabin". It would be much better if I could work fiberglass... it is what it is. At this point I just want to be able to take him with me.
@@zefautino You sound like your are similar to me as far as tooling, I'm by no means a machine shop, just have a few tools for repairs and small one off fixes. I did go buy a harbor freight tubing bender for this build though. Everything else tooling I already have and the shock I just had from one of my old scooters and same for the wheel, it was for my pitbike and just didnt need it for that bike
@@mrskywalker115 Yeah, the shock was from my pit bike which I sold in 2007... I have to do it on the cheap side, can't afford not to right now. Whatever I can use, I will. I was looking at it carefully, and I can use both the exhaust fixing points, and the lower engine fixing point, which are almost next to one another. That gives me a very strong point to hold the cart. Then I can use the mount I already have on the top to have it triangulated. Unfortunately, analysing both the OG and SF (yes I have both), it would be harder to build one cart to fit both, not impossible, just a lot of extra thinking and tinkering. There's a builder in Japan that uses this system of one support on the bottom and a sort of brace bolted to the shock mount on the monkey.
Ive done a short around the block ride with a 200lb rider but it was about bottomed out. I designed it to carry a max load of about 100lbs(my two dogs combined are about this weight) and still have about 1/2 travel left
Instead of using a turnbuckle use a 12vdc actuator so you can set lean out angle as you Ride. It really helps on roads with higher Camber angle such as 4 lane roads.
Are you referring to as a fixed setup? I think that is definitely a better way and Ive seen a few larger bikes use that configuration. Definitely a good point.
@@mrskywalker115 yes, the fixed setup. I helped a guy with a terraplane sidecar replace the original turnbuckle with an electric actuator. A couple of switches on the handlebar for in and out controlled it. He really liked it a lot. I have a sidecar motorcycle myself. It's a Dnepr MT-11 Soviet Union military sidecar motorcycle. I can't put an actuator on it because there are two turnbuckles because of the weight of the bike and sidecar. The Dnepr motorcycles are the military version of Ural motorcycles.
Very nice clean simple build! I would like to know how you did the female threaded ends for the link ends? (pivot points) Did you weld taps inside the tubes to get threads?
I just used nuts and welded them to the ends. It took a few attempts to figure out how to do it without messing up the threads. I ended up using a small rod and wrapped it up in duct tape so it kept splatter from the threads and the rod was a way to hold it aligned and in place while welding. After had to clean the goo from the tape but it worked good
How does that work when you have a heavy load? Seems like it would cause the bike to fall over towards the sidecar and pull the bike to the right going down the road.
It would be much worse if the pivot was off to the right side (my first mock up was about 3inches over) but the pivot is very close to the centerline of the bike so it essentially just pushes down more on the suspension but not trying to pull it over. I've had some heavy loads, once with a guy over 190lbs and didn't have a pulling issue other than acceleration and braking which is impossible to avoid on a sidecar
I mean have you seen what the tote around overseas with 125cc bikes? Ive seen entire food stands on a sidecar moved with a 125/150cc bike on a sidecar. Just gotta limit speed and you will have a bit more brake and clutch wear. A hawk 250 should have no issue as long as speeds stay low, maybe around 45-50 would be my guess with that much weight
you might consider using flat profile tire on the sidecar wheel. since it does not lean, that round profile will get worn out sooner. but since there is no driving or braking force on that wheel , this might be negligible, and it does reduce contact patch and therefore the drag of that wheel. i'm just shooting sh*t. dont worry about me. heh
If this wasnt a leaning sidecar with the offset attachment points Id agree with that but when turning the wheel does lean to an extent. I am watching wear though as it isnt wearing in the center as the camber isnt straight up and down. I may be able to flip the tire every so often to get even wear side to side though and double the life of the tire. So far have about 300 or so miles without any real issues
would you be willing to make one for me? I would love to have one on my 2019 Grom. Let me know what you would charge. Fantastic design. I would only go with one that articulates like yours. nobody sells anything for the grom except rigid / fixed sidecars.
I had a few others take interest in me building them but all the legal stuff put a damper on me proceeding with building them for people(it does alter the way the bike handles a little so lots of potential for legal issues). Also this was a one off build so I'd have to start from scratch and make a few jigs to start making them. The other issue is I had someone local want me to build one for an sf grom but with them having the low mount exhaust adds a complication but it is doable. That said when I priced out time, parts(I'd use OEM grom wheel and dnm adjustable shock) and labor, it would be about $1200-1400 for me to make them but I just havent had the time to really get it all figured out(I have a full time job and alot of other hobbies).
@@mrskywalker115 well, please let me know if you change your mind. I am not scared by your estimate, pretty much what i would expect. I understand the time and legal concerns. I would be willing to sign whatever waiver you see fit to protect yourself, such as, ""these parts are purchased for testing / mock up purposes" and "not intended for road use", etc. Like I said, nobody makes anything like this. seriously great work, man.
@@lothre I've put it off for a while as things have been crazy but maybe in the next few months I'll look into doing it again. If I had all the time in the world id love to do it but I usually try to spend my time off riding lately but no reason I couldn't build a couple a month out of my garage once I have everything laid out. If I do decide to start I'll make a post on here and the grom fb pages
Unfortunately I dont have time and resources to make another video about how to make a sidecar. That said the sidecars in the Philipines Ive seen(my wife is Philipino) are very different design and much heavier built with no leaning type attachment.
@mrskywalker115 ok . thanks for replying sir.one things ask if don't mind what buy make motorcycle move side ways while having sidecar .I see vedio but i don't now name round metal put attached under motorcycle to type allow have ability. To be an honestly first time see u can do it sidecar most are fix Philippines .
@@hyndriandelmundo6855 Its called a spherical rod end, these are 3/4"-16 size/thread pitch. If you are in philipines you may need to find a metric size(like m18x1.5)
In the UK was know as a side winder but got banned this was in the 70s. I don't know why but there was a loophole in the licensing laws that got closed up. Rob September 2024
Yooo I just picked up a 2014 Grom and am currently doing a stunt build! I’m about $4800 in, and just got the wheels and stuff back from Powdercoat! Man illusion purple has never looked this good! Ay if you’re tryna see it deff check out tha page and maybe hit that red button for me hahaha, thanks G 💯
I don't recall saying I built the first sidecar but you are absolutely right, I built it using the info from others who built them for other bikes(ex the pitch between the front and rear attachments was from others testing). I think I was the first, still haven't seen any other grom leaners so far but one guy in the UK saw my build and made one for his monkey so its cool to see others inspired
My bad man, just trying to go thru all the questions ive been asked in a logical manner so I kept having to go back to my notes lol. Also engineers aren't known for being the greatest speakers haha
Really good video Mrskywalker , the detail of your engineering was executed perfectly as it will save me and others so much learning grief-issues. A huge thank you for putting together the one stop vid shop for grom sidecars and to your viewers for their inputs as well , many minds make the world a greater place 👍
Thanks for the kind words. I try to help and teach others what I have learned
First time I have ever heard or seen this kind of sidecar and I spend a lot of time in the Philippines where there are SO many trike bikes .... This could be a new concept for small scooters over there especially with the quick disconnect ..
Yea its not very common but there is a dedicated forum where this style of sidecar are talked about a good bit. I designed this one with the info from there and it really works well. The trikes in the Philippines are typically much heavier duty and when they are that heavy it doesnt make much sense to make it a leaner as it would be harder to handle and balance(my wife is from Philipines so Ive seen and ridden in the trikes there too).
@@mrskywalker115 My wife also ...
Only 3 minutes to take it off, and put it back on, and explain toe-in, while filming, without even using a cordless impact driver.
Nice job with the rig, and the video.
Very interesting point about the centre line fixing
gracias por esta muy buena aportacion y tambien detallada.
I guess you learned why the front pivot mount is supposed to be exactly on the bike centerline. With a Grom, I'd guess the speeds will be low enough to not be a problem. I built mine on the Valkyrie centerline for obvious reasons. 6 cylinders = no waiting!
The wood cover primarily slows you down due to weight or air resistance?
Wind resistance more than weight I think bc it's only at higher speeds I notice the wood frame
i wonder if you made it so the 3rd wheel leans as well if it would be safer in the wet?
it probably would help but that would need to be a full articulation which is really complex. If you want to ride in wet or adverse conditions better off with a fixed one. Could easily add a support to lock this in place and make it fixed though
Awesome job! I would like to build one for my seca2. I would love to know what pivots are you using, would be awesome if you could send me a link or code number something. The same for the suspension assembly. I tryied to search but either I’m useless or I just can’t find the parts... would apreciate the help. Ths!
For the rod ends I used these end links, but any 3/4 end link would work
www.summitracing.com/parts/CEE-6162
Suspension was a mix of ttr125 linkage, basic angle iron and a c3(zuma 50f should be the same) shock. I dont really recommend going this route unless you just had the parts laying around like I did as it has been a major headache re purposing these, ive actually made some improvement since the video but still far from ideal. If I were to do it again(I may as some have expressed interest in buying these as kits) Id design a suspension trailing arm from scratch with pressed in bushing or properly supported bearings so there isnt much torsion/twisting and select a shock from a pitbike like DNM where they have valving and preload adjustments for more fine tuning
Hope this helps
mrskywalker115 yes it does. Thank you very much!
I wanna build one for mine but my German Shepard is 120lbs lol have to be pretty hefty
Ive had a 180lb guy ride around the block in this one(suspension was just about bottomed) but 120lbs would be perfectly fine. My two dogs combine will be right around 100lbs and the little testing I did seemed ok
Thank you.
I came looking for instructions on how to build a side car, and you came as suggestion with the motorcycle I want to build one for, and for the same reason I want to build one for.
I lost one of my dogs recently, and I want to travel with the other one on my MSX. I have an idea on how to attach it to the frame, on the exhaust mounting points, which mine has 2 (SF), and where you have your case bracket on the back. I already have a mount for side panniers, just need to take the rack off and bolt on the side car. I am not keen on bolting anything to the bottom of the engine as you have, over these two years how has that worked for you?
I mean, a trailer would be stupidly easier to build and carry, but I wouldn't be able to keep an eye on my dog, nor could I talk to him whilst riding. It's my dog, not luggage.
@@zefautino Technically its not mounted directly to the engine, the rear is attached to the rod on the frame the rear set attaches to and the front mounts to the cage (it is only half mounted to the engine the top goes to the engine mount on the frame) so it doesnt really stress the motor. As for how has it been holding up I honestly havent used it much in the last year but I do have about 1k miles on it and no issues at all. Id honestly have no worries putting it on with 50-60lbs in the sidecar and do a long adv trip. I am actually thinking about putting a mount for a mtb so I can take it to the local trails I ride a few times a week. I had considered having it modular to convert between a sidecar and a trailer but like you said theres just something about having it next to you, especially with the pup in it.
@@mrskywalker115 I'm going to find out how to do it as I cut and weld.
I don't have the industrial tools needed to make it look as good as yours does, a disk grinder, a drill and a welding machine is all I have, it's what I'll use. I can't bend metal. Plus "recycled" steel bars, a used shock absorber, maybe I can get a beaten up scooter wheel (12"), and as I don't want him to be cold, I'll have to buy plexiglass so he doesn't get his eyes dry, and pvc sheets for the rest of the "cabin".
It would be much better if I could work fiberglass... it is what it is. At this point I just want to be able to take him with me.
@@zefautino You sound like your are similar to me as far as tooling, I'm by no means a machine shop, just have a few tools for repairs and small one off fixes. I did go buy a harbor freight tubing bender for this build though. Everything else tooling I already have and the shock I just had from one of my old scooters and same for the wheel, it was for my pitbike and just didnt need it for that bike
@@mrskywalker115 Yeah, the shock was from my pit bike which I sold in 2007...
I have to do it on the cheap side, can't afford not to right now. Whatever I can use, I will.
I was looking at it carefully, and I can use both the exhaust fixing points, and the lower engine fixing point, which are almost next to one another. That gives me a very strong point to hold the cart. Then I can use the mount I already have on the top to have it triangulated. Unfortunately, analysing both the OG and SF (yes I have both), it would be harder to build one cart to fit both, not impossible, just a lot of extra thinking and tinkering.
There's a builder in Japan that uses this system of one support on the bottom and a sort of brace bolted to the shock mount on the monkey.
the good side car sir,
How much capacity this side car sir?
Ive done a short around the block ride with a 200lb rider but it was about bottomed out. I designed it to carry a max load of about 100lbs(my two dogs combined are about this weight) and still have about 1/2 travel left
@@mrskywalker115 ok thank you for information and succes for YT channel...
Instead of using a turnbuckle use a 12vdc actuator so you can set lean out angle as you Ride. It really helps on roads with higher Camber angle such as 4 lane roads.
Are you referring to as a fixed setup? I think that is definitely a better way and Ive seen a few larger bikes use that configuration. Definitely a good point.
@@mrskywalker115 yes, the fixed setup. I helped a guy with a terraplane sidecar replace the original turnbuckle with an electric actuator. A couple of switches on the handlebar for in and out controlled it. He really liked it a lot. I have a sidecar motorcycle myself. It's a Dnepr MT-11 Soviet Union military sidecar motorcycle. I can't put an actuator on it because there are two turnbuckles because of the weight of the bike and sidecar. The Dnepr motorcycles are the military version of Ural motorcycles.
Very nice clean simple build! I would like to know how you did the female threaded ends for the link ends? (pivot points) Did you weld taps inside the tubes to get threads?
I just used nuts and welded them to the ends. It took a few attempts to figure out how to do it without messing up the threads. I ended up using a small rod and wrapped it up in duct tape so it kept splatter from the threads and the rod was a way to hold it aligned and in place while welding. After had to clean the goo from the tape but it worked good
@@mrskywalker115 Thanks for the quick reply and helpful tips!
How much it cost... noway in hell im spending 1900$ on one from them crooks on the site
Nice build.
Thanks
Hey boss,
Would u make one to sell?
How does that work when you have a heavy load? Seems like it would cause the bike to fall over towards the sidecar and pull the bike to the right going down the road.
It would be much worse if the pivot was off to the right side (my first mock up was about 3inches over) but the pivot is very close to the centerline of the bike so it essentially just pushes down more on the suspension but not trying to pull it over. I've had some heavy loads, once with a guy over 190lbs and didn't have a pulling issue other than acceleration and braking which is impossible to avoid on a sidecar
I want one for my hawk 250, lol it would be awesome if it could toe a grom, but i doubt having one that long with that much weight is adviseable.
I mean have you seen what the tote around overseas with 125cc bikes? Ive seen entire food stands on a sidecar moved with a 125/150cc bike on a sidecar. Just gotta limit speed and you will have a bit more brake and clutch wear. A hawk 250 should have no issue as long as speeds stay low, maybe around 45-50 would be my guess with that much weight
Are you building and selling these? If so how do we contact you
I'm not, this was a one off and just wouldn't have time and resources to build more of them.
can you tell me, what tool did you use for a similar connection rod end bearing
You mean these? www.summitracing.com/parts/CEE-6162
you might consider using flat profile tire on the sidecar wheel. since it does not lean, that round profile will get worn out sooner. but since there is no driving or braking force on that wheel , this might be negligible, and it does reduce contact patch and therefore the drag of that wheel. i'm just shooting sh*t. dont worry about me. heh
If this wasnt a leaning sidecar with the offset attachment points Id agree with that but when turning the wheel does lean to an extent. I am watching wear though as it isnt wearing in the center as the camber isnt straight up and down. I may be able to flip the tire every so often to get even wear side to side though and double the life of the tire. So far have about 300 or so miles without any real issues
Very cool 😎
would you be willing to make one for me? I would love to have one on my 2019 Grom. Let me know what you would charge. Fantastic design. I would only go with one that articulates like yours. nobody sells anything for the grom except rigid / fixed sidecars.
I had a few others take interest in me building them but all the legal stuff put a damper on me proceeding with building them for people(it does alter the way the bike handles a little so lots of potential for legal issues). Also this was a one off build so I'd have to start from scratch and make a few jigs to start making them. The other issue is I had someone local want me to build one for an sf grom but with them having the low mount exhaust adds a complication but it is doable. That said when I priced out time, parts(I'd use OEM grom wheel and dnm adjustable shock) and labor, it would be about $1200-1400 for me to make them but I just havent had the time to really get it all figured out(I have a full time job and alot of other hobbies).
@@mrskywalker115 well, please let me know if you change your mind. I am not scared by your estimate, pretty much what i would expect. I understand the time and legal concerns. I would be willing to sign whatever waiver you see fit to protect yourself, such as, ""these parts are purchased for testing / mock up purposes" and "not intended for road use", etc. Like I said, nobody makes anything like this. seriously great work, man.
@@lothre I've put it off for a while as things have been crazy but maybe in the next few months I'll look into doing it again. If I had all the time in the world id love to do it but I usually try to spend my time off riding lately but no reason I couldn't build a couple a month out of my garage once I have everything laid out. If I do decide to start I'll make a post on here and the grom fb pages
A's Filipino I don't now can do motorcycle sidecar can .i hope add design vedio and how make one
Unfortunately I dont have time and resources to make another video about how to make a sidecar. That said the sidecars in the Philipines Ive seen(my wife is Philipino) are very different design and much heavier built with no leaning type attachment.
@mrskywalker115 ok . thanks for replying sir.one things ask if don't mind what buy make motorcycle move side ways while having sidecar .I see vedio but i don't now name round metal put attached under motorcycle to type allow have ability. To be an honestly first time see u can do it sidecar most are fix Philippines .
@@hyndriandelmundo6855 Its called a spherical rod end, these are 3/4"-16 size/thread pitch. If you are in philipines you may need to find a metric size(like m18x1.5)
In the UK was know as a side winder but got banned this was in the 70s.
I don't know why but there was a loophole in the licensing laws that got closed up. Rob September 2024
Yooo I just picked up a 2014 Grom and am currently doing a stunt build! I’m about $4800 in, and just got the wheels and stuff back from Powdercoat! Man illusion purple has never looked this good! Ay if you’re tryna see it deff check out tha page and maybe hit that red button for me hahaha, thanks G 💯
You might be the first one to build a leaner for a Grom, but it's far from the first leaning sidecar.
I don't recall saying I built the first sidecar but you are absolutely right, I built it using the info from others who built them for other bikes(ex the pitch between the front and rear attachments was from others testing). I think I was the first, still haven't seen any other grom leaners so far but one guy in the UK saw my build and made one for his monkey so its cool to see others inspired
If its ridged fixed then centre line pivot wouldn't matter.....
Yep, definitely true.
nice miata
Thanks, that's my baby, shes pretty quick with mkturbo and 1.8 vvt swap
Thanks, that's my baby, shes pretty quick with mkturbo and 1.8 vvt swap
Couldnt get through the first minute way way way too many "ahhs, uuhhhmmmss"
My bad man, just trying to go thru all the questions ive been asked in a logical manner so I kept having to go back to my notes lol. Also engineers aren't known for being the greatest speakers haha
Uhh it’s uhhh hard to listen to you uhhh the pauses um are killing me
Sorry for giving out free info. I'm not great at public speaking when going into details as it is alot of info.
@@mrskywalker115U did an excellent job on this video. Screw these weirdo's. I love the sidecar!!!
@@vennomrides107 Thanks