Treating Enclosure Resonances
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มิ.ย. 2024
- Cuboid (rectangular) enclosures have their inherent issue. Here's how these issues manifest, and here's how to treat them.
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Some items of interest featured in this video:
Mineral Wool: amzn.to/2wrUvV6
MiniDSP 4x10 HD: amzn.to/33AhFom
Dayton EMM-6 Mic: amzn.to/2WxEIP7
Electric Knife: amzn.to/3be3Qi0
Triptych of Snippets by septahelix (c) copyright 2019 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution (3.0) license. dig.ccmixter.org/files/septahe... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
The 360 slideshot was fantastic. I sure hope they appreciated the visual interpretation of pressure waves interacting with each other over time.
Agreed. @Hexibase this was terrifically shot and edited. Pro stuff.
Yess!! that was a nice touch, I am still wondering, how did you manage to pull it off!
Sure was, in fact, I have to wonder exactly how he did that.
Always delivering nothing less than quality videos and information! Keep it up, HexiBase!
Can't wait for the DSP video :)
Dude... there are is no other way for me to say it....
I love you!
Your channel is pure gold.
Very inspiring, clean image, beautiful animation, fluent speech, you know what you are talking about, not too fast not too slow, easy to fallow, simply awesome.
What on earth could I ask for more? Well.... that you were my neighbour. 😁
U are the most knowledgeable channel that I visit on utube....great vid.
Your videos have gotten so good in recent history! Great animations, graphics, and presentation style.
Safety note: protective measures should be taken when working with mineral fibers like rockwool or fiberglass. They're extremely harmful to the respiratory system and more than annoying to get embedded in your skin.
Rockwool rash... bad on finger... worse on a lung.
That's why I use Open Foam and Polyester Batting. Also the other stuff can cause Small loose fibers to get into your Speaker drivers and damage them.
Excellent work as always. Thanks for putting that into a visual package!
Peaks and dips in the response can be corrected in the DSP but the ringing is still there. Treating is the best way to fix this problem. Btw, nice presentation.
Finally a side by side comparison! Thank you that was a great video!
Great video as always, its our first day on lock down so really appreciate the positive distraction!
I love your work - very thorough and most helpful
Hmmmm, Rockwool...... itchy stuff, gritty on the teeth if your unlucky enough to breath it in. If your thinking of using this stuff in a high power reflex design/port, cover it in fabric b4 installing (like a pillow) High power drivers can break up the material causing particles to get pushed out of the port and into your room. Covering it with fabric will at least contain any breakup.
Spraying the cut ends with hairspray was another trick I've seen.
@nate0
A lot of the studio absorbers use plastic sheeting in addition to fabric to contain the rockwool. The dust is notorious, and is a significant concern as a panel reaches an age of a few decades.
This is one of the reasons why Owens Corning resin-fiberglass panels are popular in the USA.
nate0 > Totally agree with you, thought I'd just add the covering part incase some people didn't know.
Rock wool is amazing!
Recently rehabbed an attic room for my daughter, and part of the room had a seciton cut out where the bathroom/shower is. I bought a pack of rock wool, and threw it in the wall, and also used thicket drywall (not worth it! thick drywall is waaaay to hard to work with), and the noise difference is incredible! I mean, you already have backer board, tile, grout, and drywall, but previously you could hear every drop of watter hitting the floor in there. The slightest hum, and you could hear it in that room. Now with the rock wool, there is a little bit of a running water noise from the pipe in the wall; But that is it! Unless you are singing your heart out, nobody is going to hear anything that is going on in there. Ironically, go to my son's room, which also shares a wall with the same bathroom, but the room part, not the shower, and you can hear everything. His side only has some thin drywall in the bathroom side, and some 70's era 'wood' pannelling, but it is pretty bad. Guess I know what I'll be doing next! Thankfully I already did most of his room, so it wont be the whole room. Pretty much just this one wall... and maybe move a cut-in notch to make a real closet space in there.
It would be nice to see further investigation on the effects of cabinet bracing and constrained layer damping. And also a comparison with plain old industrial grey felt.
Super looking forward to the DSP multi channel tutorial. I've been thinking about going digital for a while now.
Pete Bravo excellent good video topic of choice for discussion. You are going to educate a lot of people with this video
excellent quality, both from informative and production point of view.
Superb vid Pete! Xx
HexiBase hits me in the gut, Love your videos!!!
Your videos are really good learning material! thanks for doing this!
Please do a video about room modes and the compensation with 2 subs.
hope to see lots of videos coming up from you Pete these days, lets have some positive stuff coming up out of this quarentine disaster....we need more content, in a couple of weeks ill be running out of good movies and series...lol
That mineral wool is exactly the same stuff as what you can buy in the hardware store to insulate your house with.
@@HexiBase I'd wager a guess the difference would be negligable, and most likely not worth the price incurred by having some sort of acoustics stamp.
Anyhow, I was excited for this video but I wanted to learn about how different angles effect the frequency graph. I saw an audiophile video with someone touting "defractionless" speakers and I could not find much information surrounding that. Sure it's certainly bogus, but a rectangle prism I'd imagine is hardly near our best option. Please drop some knowledge if you can.
@@steeezyb you would be better off searching for "diffraction".
Yea man, Rockwool RW3 or RWA45 is standard mass produced insulation stuff. It is designed and rated for acoustic insulation as well as thermal.
In the USA a lot of recording studios prefer Owens Corning resin fiberglass panels www.owenscorning.com/insulation/products/type706andtype707seriesfiberglasinsulationboards , because they are less prone to shedding the horrid rockwool dust.
Check out tech ingredients video on diy acoustic panels and absorbing materials
Regular fiberglass pink is not much different from egg crate insulation. If you manage to find stuff labeled as "Quiet Zone" or some thing like that, it will be superior to regular pink. It is however quite a bit more expensive, usually about twice the price. And it is usually not as good as mineral wool, but is often somewhat cheaper as well. So you have some gradient of trade off vs performance. For my low power system I went with mineral wool after trying many other things. In my situation it was the only thing that worked to my satisfaction. And this is also keeping in mind the room is purpose built.
Awesome - love your work!
Love the detail you go into and the pace. Thanks for sharing.
What simulation software did you use in the video?
Outstanding
Working on 2 sealed 12” right now
Awesome video Brother !!!!!
This video is very helpfull, bro. Thanks for that
I am a speaker guy myself, but I am also *extremely* poor money-wise, barely able to (usually) pay my rent on time each month, (NOT rn though, because of the current, Spring 2020 pandemic and no work), so I can ONLY afford to design speakers and subs and other stuff on *paper* and with a calculator, and I can only afford to work with cheap speakers and stuff I find in the thrift stores or used...
I really WISH I had all of that "high-tech" gear and measuring equipment that you have there! My GOD, the totally EPIC and *groundbreaking* speaker designs that I could develop, test and build with all of that computer and pro audio stuff is only *imaginable* to me, but I certainly would get my use out of all of that kind of stuff IF I had any access to it! WOW!... I really LOVE watching videos like this about sound and speakers and acoustics because that is MY "nerdy" passion too, you have NO idea!
I always enjoy your videos man! I just wish I knew you personally and lived in the same city as you, so I could visit and talk speakers and electronic stuff with you for hours on end!
A hamster crawled through the bass reflex port of a friends subwoofer, and could not get out again.
So he lifted the woofer and shaked it to get the hamster out.
That did not work, so he had to dismantle it to get the hamster, which had been shaken around in rock wool. It died a few days later, and his daughters got sad.
As for the good sound absorption. I think this is due to rocks higher density, so the fibers resist moving with the sound waves. And there should also be optimal thicknesses of the fibers, matching air diffusion distances at different frequencies.
MOAR MINERAL WOOL!!!!!
amazing videography
I have used carpet foam padding on my subwoofer boxes. And had great results by ear not by computer analysis.
That was great. Think I’ll give that stuff a shot!
I use polly-fill myself, I like it's affect better than foam. But I've never measured the before and after, you've definitely got me wondering about that wool stuff though! That's an impressive result for sure.
The great thing about the interesting hobby speaker building is that each detail of it can be a whole science on its own. You can produce different results depending not only on the type of material you use but also on how the material is distributed inside the box. And iif you start to combine different stuffing materials, try several styles of bracing and use separate absorber chambers inside you can experiment for years!
superb video!
Pretty cool. I could definitely hear the difference through my woofer.
The mineral wool look like it's impressive stuff. A bit like the work you do!
@@HexiBase Your welcome.......I'm still waiting patiently for that transmission line home theatre sub, man!
Great test
Thanks for sharing 👍😁
Thank you
4:31 It would be awesome to see a plot of the light blue curve minus the yellow curve, or perhaps the absolute value of the difference, if the program you are using allows it.
thanks for my series tune dual bass reflex enclosure. From AZ
Can you please make a tutorial, of how to make correct time alignment messurements, and how to eq properly. there is'nt much info about that.
thanks from the netherlands
Hey man! Just here to say that I appreciate your video's! No audiophile bullcrap, just facts that you then demonstrate to us mere mortals :D thank you!
Btw: I'm waiting in agony for your dsp video as I'm doubting to use the dsp as an active filter in a woofer-tweeter pair (and thus need separate amps for the tweeters and woofers) or just add a passive crossover that I can correct with dsp after it's set in its final location. The active filter setup with separate amps seems more expensive and a less common approach?
Have you ever looked into mass-loading (sand-filled walls, inner walls lined with dynamat between the cabinet & rockwool), or constrained layer damping & its affects on cabinet construction/resonance?
Hi!
Totally love your videos, very informative.
I was wondering what software are you using to compute the frequency response curves of enclosure + speakers?
I am usually quite impressed of the matching between the prediction and the measurements that you make.
It would be really nice if you could make a video on your software + hardware setup.
Thanks,
Have a great day!
Thomas
I always enjoy your content. Luckily most of the car audio enclosures I built (1980's to current, LOL)had at least 1 angled back wall or speaker face. I did experiment with different methods to reduce standing back waves back then.
I had a enclosure design I was gifted in the early 90's that I can only remember a few details about. I'd like to see if you can help me identify what it was. Keep the videos coming.
Great video.
how much does using mineral wool change the air volume in the encloser, and how much of the graph change is due to the smaller air volume now?
I would love to see a video or series of video on room correction and bass management using miniDSP and mic and rew.
Not able to find any online wonder how people missed this is the core. I won’t mind to pay for such a content
Very interesting! Does the mineral wool lower the sensitivity of the subwoofer?
@@HexiBase Thank you for the quick reply and all the knowledge that you share! 👍
Great video! At 2.37 you use a spray gun. Is it glue to mount the boards in the cabinet or a varnish that will bind the stone fibers in the Rockwool board? Dust can damage the speaker coil. Know that Rockwool has boards that have a cloth on one side to stop the dust in the board. Take a look at their acoustic range, next time. Rockfon is the brand. There, the boards are covered on one side of canvas or acoustic paint.
Love your video. Question for you HexiBass - with sealed enclosures, would filling it airspace with hexafluoride gas help it sound deeper?
What software do you use to simulate the enclosures.
Great work 👍
I like your theme music ! While doing the first two sweeps, you could hear a bump between 40 and 60 HZ as the frequency moves up. That aberration is go we with the rock wool. And now I know where to get it, but when using the rock wool how does that effect the enclosure size, as if you’re planning to use it from the start? Does is count as if the walls of the enclosure were 50% closer together than without any damping, or is it the same?
Thanks Pete!
Hey, your videos are already quite advanced. Are there any good resources you would recommend if one wants to start with speaker building?
@HexiBase great job bro! & my box is like the 74 litter but it is powered and has a rectangular vent that I don't know if I should close or leave open? I just watche movies if that helps. lol
That mineral wool reminds me of the USD Audio AP mats form back in the day.
Interesting! I was wondering what your thoughts were on poly-fil stuff! More like when to use vs not to use situations.
I also would have liked to known his thoughts on that since he has not answered you back
Except for he answered it down below in somebody else's comments and I just found
That wool seems identical to what I have uncovered in older GM cars for road noise, and I always tore it out in favor of Dynamat!😆
Actually mild steel sheet with dynamat could work as a pretty effective membrane absorber if correctly designed. Possibly with some holes in it, and an airspace behind it.
They sell that same insulation at my Home Depot. And a regular serrated bread knife cuts if perfectly.
Always a 👍.
Do you subtract the air space taken up by the egg crate foam or mineral wool from your boxes air space?
In this case it's infinite baffle so the volume is already correct
Hey! I have a pare of sonab oa5-2 and they have a basket that sits behind the speaker with dampening material between the two, it has a level adjustment that was very precisely adjusted at the factory. According to carlssonplanet this smoothens out the impedance curve quite a bit. I think you'll find it interesting to look into. Sincerely.
Do you have any videos on box geometry, as in what the optimal solid would be? Such as a cube vs. a sphere, maybe even comparisons with some other solids such as the other platonics, or the more easier to construct archimedian and catalan solids; I'm also somewhat curious about how a toroidal enclosure would theoretically work. I know this would only really be demonstrated with air velocity/pressure simulations, as there's no real way to make a truly spherical enclosure easily, and finding a way to glue together a large solid that isn't a cube could be fairly difficult. I'm just more curious as to how deviation from 90 degree corners would affect output; say, would a tetrahedron be better or worse, or would an octahedron be better or worse, then so on until we get to something that's too difficult to manufacture, like high face count solids and spheres.
Can you do a dedicated video on the bass reflex band pass box, the one where it ports into another chamber I would really like to build one but can’t find any more information on it besides the uncommon box video you made
You should try the fxtreme DB450 DSP amp! it is wayy better then any other amp boards, and it has literally everything already build in, bluetooth, DSP, 4 channels (2 channels bridged) and even a freakin step up booster! so basically a AIO lol.... i already bought it a few weeks ago and it really is the best amp money can buy
There are mineral wool knives for cutting that stuff that are cheaper than the electric and work great
@Hexibase just wondering if you have ever dabbled with some Isometric Pressure Speaker drivers? Vifa makes some good ones. I have the Vifa Helsinki and its one of the best sounding Bluetooth speakers i have ever listened to. I bet you you could create a kick ass Isometric Pressure Speaker set up with your vast sound knowledge.
Thank you.
Is the enclosure made with mdf if so I used to install car audio for 15 years. Mdf is pourers meaning it’s compressed wood that air can still penetrate the material. When I design a box I fibre glass the inside and then paint the inside with bitchinum paint which builders use on the roof. Then apply the sound proof
. Amazing results.
I’ll send you pictures of my installation which I’m doing to my van
What about the common poly fill?
If planning for the wool, does it eat up some air space? In other words, build a little bit bigger enclosure to get your net volume after the wool?
I usually do minimum 1" walls with overkill bracing. Then loosely fill with poly.
Hello! Tell more about modeling response of speaker and enclosure PLEASE! How dou you predict it?? What software do you use?
So while I definitely don't consider home theater "critical listening", My theater has 11 DIY subs in it and 7 DIY towers for the main bed layer. I use polyfill for all of my subs (as they're all sealed units for ultra low extension) and have considered changing the insulation. Do you think I'd get stronger ULF results (say below 15Hz) if I went with this type of insulation over polyfill?
Although not as easy as foam or insulation have you done any testing with angled corner bracing to kill the corner waves?
So what box design considerations should we take when designing a LF enclosure to avoid these issues?
Hi there, I just build a subwoofer with a Skar audio enclosure and a 10" Electrovoice Subwoofer driver, it produces excessive vibration all over the house, so I tried to isolate it by placing the subwoofer over a piece of foam and it worked 75%, do you have an idea on how can I can reduce more of the vibration? Thanks in advance...
Have you ever completely filled the box inside with poly fill or other absorbing/ damping material? What was the results? ..or what your recomendactions about this? Thank you!
Can I do a push pull isobaric with a front facing subwoofer and a down firing subwoofer firing into the enclosure from the top at a 90 degree angle from front subwoofer?
I'd recommend using a cheap machete from harbor freight, just make sure to keep it sharp. It'll slice through the stuff from orange or blue cleanly and with minimum effort. I've been stuffing the walls of my house with the stuff mostly from blue, it's slightly thicker and denser, but I never considered using it in a speaker box. I have a project coming that it may be useful in. Thanks for the tip!
I am curious about how denim house insulation would compare, or the very expensive stuff that GR-Research sells. Love the videos.
Total überteuert. Wie Bondum800 in Deutschland
Are you calculating the sectional density and volume of the dampening material for wave reverb delay /phase delay to impact resonance vs just using a more efficient enclosure ?
Yes, it absolutely changed the volume of the enclosure a fair amount.
Was it worth the time and money to switch to the Mineral Wool? To me there was little effect between the different insulation types. It may change the graph some but can you actually hear the changes?
So when you add the dense mineral wool the box volume is reduced. This test compared to the volume of the empty box would not be the same test correct?
What if you change the internal shape? If you stick to the same size cabinet, what happens if there are no parallell walls? If you curve the rear wall, and the side wall? Or any other shape you might fancy that might help sound wave reflection? For years I've been having this in the back of my head without finding the time to test it out, and also I don't have any test equipment or skills how to use such tools, so I would have to rely on my ears and only them, and I am not sure they are good enough to hear any difference. Have you ever tested this out in real life?
Out of curiosity, what would the response be on an enclosure like this if you added a small port to it with the mineral wool? Also how would a rounded enclosure effect the sound and response of the sub? Meaning the inside of the enclosure being egg shaped.
I like the results shown in the video but I would have preferred a deeper look at what enclosure resonances actually are and where they stem from. You almost started to dig deep with the look at pressure response inside of an enclosure but just kinda left it hanging there. The thumbnail had me thinking you were going to talk about the effect (or lack there of) of adding 45 degree corners. Talking about bracing enclosure panels would fit nicely in a longer more in depth video about enclosure/panel resonances. The effect of a double baffle vs dowel vs I-beam style bracing would be fantastic. Keep up the great work!
What software are you using to model air pressure and/or response per box layout? This looks much better than bass pro!
How much the volume the insulations occupies inside the box? would be interesting to test the same real volume in an enclosure bigger enough to compensate the 2in thinckness of the rockwool
i thought that filling a sealed box was the way to go, there are special sealed box damping material for that.
I ordered a mini dsp c6×12 for my car but I now need to buy a Windows 10 laptop to be able to use it lol! Look forward to any videos on using the minidsp products and tuning
How can the mineral wool in that small box affect 18Hz. Something is wrong. Think you are using more smoothing on that last curve.
What kind of software models the pressure waves like that inside the box?
I noticed the shot with the rock wool a spray of some sort was applied. Would that be to avoid nasty particles being released in the air?
What about the fibre material that is blasted around by the compressed air? Earlier or later for sure that stuff will destroy the speaker. I won't imagine what can when these fibres are blasted by bassreflex. How to handle that?
Can you make a video on modeling enclosures for a room
Do you need to account for the volume of the wool in the enclosure calculations?
So should I round the corners in a transmission line or line it with rock wool? Or how would this effect a radiator?
Hi everyone, what software can I use to simulate the acoustics of the different box geometries?
As usual very interesting video. its rather clear each design phase notably the enclosure design is remains critical, DSP used correctly is only then used as an ointment (minimum corrections) instead of face reconstruction (many doing this).
I 'm interested in looking at intelligent driven DSP algorithms vs brute force methods, Example: delaying the audio signal in the time-domain digitally before it enters the amplifier (however this wont help with acoustic feedback measurements), The future is Audio Machine Learning algorithms, against data points like "Recorded Acoustic Environmental Profiles" for the selected speaker positioning and sampling listening tastes and building data models collected from people's music/audio preferences this is where I predict things will go in the future. Like Google Nest smart thermostat. But audio is way more complex and challenging.
I hate the way movies are dubbed, abrupt explosions bang! boom! reaching 12db in the middle of the night me playing AGC (automatic gain control) with the T.V remote control.