Rob should have called Doug an A$$ Hole when he made the derogatory comments about the city of Detroit... Rob lost interest in the discussion after those comments..
Jerry world , they screwed over Isiah. No one cared that Larry Bird walked off the court in 1988. Or that he trash talked and hazed Jordan before. It didn’t keep him off the Dream Team. No on cared when LeBron walked off without shaking hands after losing to Orlando in the 2009 playoffs. He still made the 2012 Olympic Team. Doug also assumes without evidence that Isiah led a “freeze out” of Jordan. Do you really think Bird, Dr. J, Moses Malone would listen to Isiah in 1985?? And if Bird was part of it, why didn’t it keep him off the Dream Team?? This was an orchestrated snub by Rod Thorn because the all-mighty royal airness Jordan (the guy he drafted and who also loathed the Pistons) was offended. Doug tried to shout down Rob. But Rob was right in the end. People that don’t like each other play together all the time to get the job done or the goal accomplished. The 1992 Olympic team isn’t the Dream Team. It’s the Scheme Team. They schemed against Isiah.
I completely agree with Parker on Isaiah on dream team as far a being totally deserving, but enough guys disliked him, and those guys had to give up their summer and wanted to have fun too. Chemistry off the court was the issue
They dominated every team. They didn't need anyone including Michael when it came to competition. It was a world wide showcase for the nba and mj had to be there. He was the star. People don't like zeke, bottom line. Shouldn't have pissed half the team off. Magic, Larry, mj and Scottie didn't like isiah and probably others
Yep Michael "Cocaine" Irvin stabbed a teammate with some scissors on the Cowboys lol Dallas Cowboys in the 90's make the Bulls look like choir boys lol
Exactly. IT not being on the dream team was never about whether his talent warranted being on the team or not. That team was going to dominate everybody likely with whenever they had on the squad from the pros. Magic was on that team and was retired - granted he still was probably at the talent level anyways. Bird was struggling with his back issues and retired right after the Olympics. But they were there because they were legends of the NBA but also were still great players. But IT had issues with basically everybody on that team based on how he and his team played the game. It would’ve been one thing if MJ pushed for him to not be on the team and other players pushed back but notice how nobody did including his own coach. Magic said in the book he wrote with Larry that he helped keep him off the team because he believed he had made comments about his sexuality. MJ probably did something but people can’t forget that it was a ton of guys who didn’t wanna spend two months with him. Right or wrong I get it.
Exactly. IT not being on the dream team was never about whether his talent warranted being on the team or not. That team was going to dominate everybody likely with whenever they had on the squad from the pros. Magic was on that team and was retired - granted he still was probably at the talent level anyways. Bird was struggling with his back issues and retired right after the Olympics. But they were there because they were legends of the NBA but also were still great players. But IT had issues with basically everybody on that team based on how he and his team played the game. It would’ve been one thing if MJ pushed for him to not be on the team and other players pushed back but notice how nobody did including his own coach. I get that it stinks for that to be the reason he was excluded from the team but it’s also a reality that how you treat the people around you will have consequences in the end. If it was a situation where not having the tip top talent could change the game results then he’d have been on the team I’m sure but when it doesn’t matter it can work this way.
Bradford Miller jr you still can’t take words out of context. Who made the exact comment? Rodman. Did Isiah agree? Yes. Why? Because a weaker leader would’ve thrown rookie Rodman under the bus 🚌 but didn’t.
Actually it was worse that he agreed. He validated what Rodman was saying. Isiah was the face of the franchise. No one would of cared if it was only Rodman.
Trulysarcastic44 listen to the audio he was clearly laughing when he said he agreed with Rodman. He did not truly believe the comment at all. Thomas was good friends with a lot of the Celtic players such as mchale, he clearly was just joking when he agreed. Stop painting Thomas as some evil benevolent person.
Fox sports ought to do something about Doug and his racist and classist stuff. Detroit is and always has been a hardworking city that is just like every other major city in the world in that it has its problems, and always has, and likely always will, but people are constantly working to solve what they can, and they’re living strong in Detroit.
Isiah deserved to be on that team. He earned it. Doug just doesn’t like Zeke which is why all of his points are contradictory. Rob was consistent with his argument.
The Dream Team wasn't about collecting the top talent. Bird couldn't play anymore and Magic was retired. It was about marketing the NBA to a global audience. They needed the people that could best be marketed and that was Jordan, Magic and Bird. Everyone else was just gravy. They certainly didn't need Isiah to win and definitely didn't want his presence to piss off the three top dogs. He dug his own grave in the years leading up to 92. He fell in it when he walked off the court.
depannist Isiah deserved fo be on the team. It doesn’t matter how any of the other guys felt. If you’re accumulating the best players of an era it’s wrong to not have on that team and add insult to injury have his coach coach the team who apparently didn’t have any issue with his behavior. Just because he’s not liked doesn’t mean he didn’t earn his spot.
Well a couple of championships. Michael Jordan led his team to multiple championships. Also Thomas did not win Finals MVP for both of his 2 championships, only one in 1990. I still agree that Isiah was the leader for both championships, however Jordan was the LEADER for ALL 6 of his championships and he won 6 Finals MVPs.
Steph didn't lead two teams like Isiah did, 2017 & 18 Curry was the locker room leader, Durant was the on the floor leader, 2015 like Rob said no Kyrie, no Love, and Iggy was the Finals MVP, Isiah was just the leader of the Bad Boys period, no qualifiers necessary, beat prime MJ, they did beat Bird and the CELTICS, that did happen Doug, Ewing's Knicks, Showtime, won the Finals MVP in both of them, he is the greatest player under 6'5" to ever play, Steph is barely top 5, Isiah= top 15 all time, Steph=borderline top 25, y'all can go ahead and gtfo now, thank you 👋
Well Bird didn’t play in GM 6 in the ‘88 Conf Final..... Magic pulled his hamstring during the 89 Finals and Byron Scott was hurt as well. As a result the Pistons swept em
The way doug took that larry bird line so personal plus the way he low key made excuses for Jordan not calling out a white supremacist politician.......doug is looking a little suspect today......racially Whether you like Zeke or not, HE DESERVED to be on the dream team. Period. Plus everybody making a big deal about what he said in regards to Magic.... listen in the 80s, with all the male celebrities from that era that have admitted they slept with men then throw in Magic's son, I would not be surprised if Zeke was just telling the truth and Magic is gay
Doug and many others are really only ecstatic that MJ didn't call out Helms because it would've made them uncomfortable/guilty with the race issue. Also, relatively speaking, the stiffs in the sporting world at that time was just getting over superstar athlete Mohammed Ali holding a mirror to America and highlighting their racism against black people
Doug is right on this one, most of those guys on the Dream Team didn't want Isaiah on the team, not because of his playing ability but because they didn't like him !!!!!
I admire Pippen for being honest and true to himself. He didn't change his stance just to improve his image. Please remember it's only a game or a job. Not our place to judge a man's entire character,career, legacy based on one incident. Yes, he is flawed like rest of us!
@realone7405 Cool and I bet the pistons didn’t like it when it happened to them either. But they did it anyways. But Jordan’s issue wasn’t if the Celtics did it or not. When the Pistons beat down the Bulls the prior years Jordan stuck around and shook their hand. He gave them the respect he felt was owed and expected he’d get that in return. If MJ didn’t stick around and shake their hands before then all is fair. But he shook their hand and gave them respect and they should have reciprocated rather than making excuses and passing the buck for their behavior by pointing fingers at another team. You don’t justify your wrong actions by pointing out somebody rlse did the wrong thing too. Not hard to grasp.
Doug talking a bunch of hersay and not facts. Magic and Zeke wasnt cool around the Dream Team era they were no longer best friends and it was way before Magic came out as HIV Positive
How is it hearsay? The point is nobody liked Zeke like that. He is a dick. With that said he is underrated and the greatest little guy in NBA history. Maybe curry is better.
Come on we all know that it was Jordan. What's worst for Bird, Isaiah's comments or Barkley holding him down to get beat up by Dr. J? He was on the team.
mark brinton The point is Stockton didn’t belong on the team ahead of Isiah because Isiah was a far better player who had “led” his team to 2 championships. His credentials were far better at the time. Those are just facts. No disrespect to Stockton to admit that.
This guy, Doug, is blowing smoke & fanning the fire. LMAO... So you're telling me Isiah didn't lead his team to victory against The Celtics & The Lakers because Larry, Magic & Byron Scott were injured? GTFOH!!! & for the record, Isiah NEVER questioned Magics sexuality!! That was one of those big rumours for many years. Magic had certain people in his ear telling him lies. All in all this guy sounds like a Isiah Thomas MEGA HATER!!😄😄😄
Yeah it was Magic's agent Lon Rosen who told Magic that lie. Rosen HATED Isaiah for cutting the amount the agents could receive on a player's contract when he was head of the union. Rosen vowed to get even with Isaiah. Gottlieb is an idiot for believe that BS>
@@MrSayWhatIThink23 That's true, but why should that have mattered? It's supposed to be the best collection of talent to represent the USA, not the "who we're cool with" Team.
A lot of players on that team didnt want Zeke participating. Jordan, Magic, Bird, Malone and Pipen. And none of the others were willing to argue against, including his own coach. Zeke went to far with a lot of those players and didnt show fair play and spotsmanship. Talent wise, he sholud have been part of dream team, but he has only himself to blame.
Isiah deserved to be on that team, but he must accept the fact that his actions kept him off the Dream Team. It says a lot that the best players in the world didn't fight to get him on that team. Rob can spin it however he wants, but that's just the fact. Our actions have consequences. Sometimes they come when we least expect them. 🤷🏽♂️ Also, Rob if you feel that way about Jordan, then why in the hell do you wear his shoes?!??
I’m a die hard Bulls and Jordan fan but the media treats Isaiah Thomas terrible. Almost everyone in America thought having HIV was connected to being gay back then also Isaiah never tongue and cheek back what Rodman said about Bird. As far as leaving the court early no one ever holds Bird and The Celtics to that same narrative because The Celtics did the exact same thing to The Pistons
Isaih wasn’t a bad person funny how y’all act like a handshake is more important then someone walking over your accomplishments. Them dudes used to play on the all star team with each other ridiculous
Generally when someone loses in sports they shake hand baseball basketball hockey football it shows character Lol live in a different day where being an ass or jerk is celebrated
And if it was orchestrated by Zeke, why isn't Dr. J, Bird, Moses, Parrish, etc not blamed as accessories...they could've passed MJ the ball....they were all NBA champs at the time and Isiah wasn't, and also Isiah's senior.
@@mobetta2092 I watched the game and Jordan did get up 9 shots and Ice Man went 1 on 1 with him a lot during the game and the other players would stand around,that was probably what they decided to let happen because at the time Gervin was the top shooting guard in the West and Jordan was just kid so to me it was just making him earn it ,I don't think it would have been a big deal if it was anyone else because I'm most all star games the vets take the most shots and play the most,look at the All-Star games today
@@NoSpinster0909 you're the 1st person who've had an opinion about the game and actually claimed to have watched it. I admit I don't recall seeing it as you have but common sense to me is that it's unfair to blame Zeke under the circumstances I previously mentioned. It'd be one thing to say Zeke didn't pass him the ball when he had possession of it, but whe others had possession of the ball and if they didn't pass to MJ, how can that be blamed on Isiah, even if he did orchestrate a "freeze out"? They're acting as if Zeke as a 4yr player at the time had Bill Russell caliber clout.
Clear example that Doug has no idea what he's talking about. Calls to quess whether he should have a talk show at all. Shout out to his research team for getting him this far!
Rob Parker won this debate. A lot of people excusing Michael Jordan’s bad behavior. Michael won’t admit to anything he did wrong. Isiah wasn’t on dream team because of Jordan. The Last Dance even admits it when Jerry Reinsdorf was asked about the team. He told Jordan a certain someone will not be on the team.
To me it comes down to two things. Rob thinks that even if Jordan, Bird, and Magic didnt want Isiah on the team that his career warranted him on the team. Dougs belief is that the team was not only about talent but the chemistry/ enough guys just did not want him on the team for a variety of reasons. *the last dance director on the Jalen&Jacoby show (post the dream team ep) said that also Scottie had bad blood, and that he talked to people that said that Joe Dumars was the guy from the Pistons that was going to go but Chuck Daley decided not to because of the problems it would have caused with Thomas that next season for the Pistons. That floored me. Dream Team wanted Dumars for his defense.
Zeke didnt freeze out or tell the other players to freeze MJ in the 87' all star game. That narrative doesnt even make sense. He wasnt an NBA champion yet he was still losing to the Celtics at that time. He didnt have the Clout to tell players Larry Bird, Moses Malone, Dr J, Kevin McHale to not Pass MJ the Ball.
Doug is a douchebag and Rob is a king and Michael Jordan is a diva... And Rob is right about that because he said if Isiah Thomas's on the team then I don't want to play... All because he didn't congratulate him with a handshake... That let me know right there that Jordan is a girly man... He got mad at the Pistons because they roughed them up...
If FS1 has any class, minimally they'd immediately make Doug Gottleib publicly apologize to their viewers and especially the City of Detroit for his disrespectful comments. Many of FS1 and Gottleib's ratings are from sport fans from the City of Detroit, just as from any other place. There are countless sports teams and figures that we as sports fans can debate, but a discussion should never become so petty that we're making bad comments about cities.. a national host from a reputable station especially shouldn't be the one making such dispicable comments.
Lol they sounded like me and my dad arguing about sports and then the ole “what are you doing rn” when there’s a bunch of background noise mid argument lol
WTH is the point about arguing something that happened 30 freaking years ago. Last I checked the Dream Team won the gold and it wasn't even close. They didn't need Isaiah.
your statement is even more reason to allow Thomas to play. it wasn't even close, so having him on the team would not have mattered at all and you could have just given him 10 min a game and let it go at that
I hope Doug remembers context when talking about the Lakers 88 championship (Isiah hurting and the terrible foul call). I hope he remembers context when the Celtics walked off the court as well.
Gottlieb just lost my respect moving forward. He needs to repent and apologize for making a crude and disrespectful comment about the chance of living in Detroit. Distasteful..Check yourself man.
In an interview with the great sportswriter Mitch Album after Isiah won his first title in 1989 said, "I understand what I had to do a long time ago in terms of statistics and trying to play the game the correct way it is supposed to be played and I understood and I know that I would be penalized for doing that but I saw the end result would be a championship. And I had to decide which I wanted more. Do I want to be recognized as one of the best guards supposedly in the league by a mass and a great amount of statistics or do I want to win a championship and have piece of mind? The decision I came to is that I want to win a championship and its a hard decision to make simply because there are so many other guys in the league who make the other decision that they are going to score a lot of points and they are going to do the things to take care of themselves and not take the criticism that you have to take. I was hell bent on winning a championship and that was the only way that I could see to do it. I understood the price I had to pay, and I paid the price and I more or less got what I wanted". A CHAMPIONSHIP!!
So we're just going to ignore the fact that damn near every player on that team has come out to say that they didn't want Isiah on it the team. Magic Johnson wrote in his book that he told them he didn't want to play with Isiah. I'm sure Jordan didn't want to play with him either. But why are we trying to pin it on one guy?
Karl Malone was one of the dirtiest players in the league and he was on the team. Don't give me Isiah being a bad or dirty player, he had more than enough talent and was better than Stockton, Magic, and Bird at the time. Not to mention Christian Laettner.
@Red HawK13 Zeke wasn't on Bird's level? 😂😂😂😂 Yeah right. He was better than Bird and Stockton that year like I said. Stockton only ended up playing 4 games anyways. And they had the Pistons coach! And why did Team USA opt for Laettner instead of...SHAQ?! I wonder
@@StillTre_ Because he was national player of the year and back to back national champion? Dude was the most recognizable college player that decade and is prob a top 10 college player all time. Shaq obv ended up being much better in the pros but it's not crazy that they picked the best and most famous college player to be the college representative
I'm not an Isaiah Thomas fan. At all. But I don't understand how Michael Jordan can state that he did whatever it took to win. And we applaud him for it. Thomas did the exact same thing to win and we vilify him for it. It's hypocritical.
That's the point. That's been the beef of all Pistons' fans and players since the 80s. If those same Bad Boys had been playing in NY as the Knicks back then, the ENTIRE narrative would be different. No way do you mention Magic, Jordan & Bird WITHOUT Isiah b/c the NY media wouldn't allow it. Nor would they have allowed David Stern to leave dude off the Dream Team.
Gottlieb was too young to understand the context of Zeke's comment; Rodman said it in anger, Isiah had it repeated to him, pretended to agree, and then LAUGHED mockingly. Oh, and most of Jordan's highlights in the All-Star game are off Isiah assists. So much for the "freeze-out" narrative. But yeah, "today's players are soft and sensitive." FOH
Isaiah beat Bird in 88, in the playoffs, should have beat the Lakers that year, then beat them in 89 and Magic was 29. And was stepping on MJs neck the entire time. Isiah Thomas is the greatest little man to play the game period!
@@desconocidod3119 Definition of a thug is a tough guy according to Webster. I don't recall the correlation between skin color and behavior within the definition. I guess the Celtics didn't play rough or the "thug" way.
@@TomestisVivian What on earth does skin tone have to do with anything? The Pistons were thugs because they clotheslined people. The Celtics played good defense and didnt resort to that every play. It has nothing to do with skin tone whatsoever. Bill laimbeer was the biggest thug of all. Nothing tough about him, either.
One of the rare times that the title is accurate.
lmbo very true
Exactly.... I thought this was a click bait title but ....man.
My phone screen got hot 🔥🔥🔥 .
Rob “we all work with people everyday we don’t like” long pause.........
Doug’s inner voice “I wonder if he is talking about me?”
Haha
🤣🤣🤣
Rob was talking about Doug’s ass 😂😂😂
I only tuned in to hear Rob Parker's perspective.
Guess u had to listen to Doug perspective to huh lol
Rob Is A Hater And Fraud ! The Nerve Of You 🤦🏽♂️
Be careful... Rob Parker's opinion will lower your IQ.
@@rLxJake One of the rare moments I agree with Rob.
Tomestis Vivian you and me both!
Gottlieb irks me too
Rob should have called Doug an A$$ Hole when he made the derogatory comments about the city of Detroit... Rob lost interest in the discussion after those comments..
🙏🏿🙏🏿
FACTS
pisnop Facts. That was dirty!
He sure did lose interest, it sounds around 13:16 to 13:20 he's taking a piss
pisnop Those comments were unnecessary but true. I’m sure Doug knew that Rob lived there.
Smoke em Rob. Zeke the most unfairly treated hof ever. He did beat Magic Bird and Jordan.
"Rob Parker" is synonymous with "heated debate".
*Shock* to hear this but right.
Rob is right. And Doug needs to tone it down a notch.
nah rob got schooled, he's a hypocrite
Rob lost this one ,
Jerry world , they screwed over Isiah. No one cared that Larry Bird walked off the court in 1988. Or that he trash talked and hazed Jordan before. It didn’t keep him off the Dream Team. No on cared when LeBron walked off without shaking hands after losing to Orlando in the 2009 playoffs. He still made the 2012 Olympic Team.
Doug also assumes without evidence that Isiah led a “freeze out” of Jordan. Do you really think Bird, Dr. J, Moses Malone would listen to Isiah in 1985?? And if Bird was part of it, why didn’t it keep him off the Dream Team?? This was an orchestrated snub by Rod Thorn because the all-mighty royal airness Jordan (the guy he drafted and who also loathed the Pistons) was offended.
Doug tried to shout down Rob. But Rob was right in the end. People that don’t like each other play together all the time to get the job done or the goal accomplished.
The 1992 Olympic team isn’t the Dream Team. It’s the Scheme Team. They schemed against Isiah.
@@MrNeilman73 Exactly, because MJ is super narcissistic and sensitive...he needs to relax.
doug is much more savvy on basketball than. rob or chris btw
I completely agree with Parker on Isaiah on dream team as far a being totally deserving, but enough guys disliked him, and those guys had to give up their summer and wanted to have fun too. Chemistry off the court was the issue
They dominated every team. They didn't need anyone including Michael when it came to competition. It was a world wide showcase for the nba and mj had to be there. He was the star. People don't like zeke, bottom line. Shouldn't have pissed half the team off. Magic, Larry, mj and Scottie didn't like isiah and probably others
Yep Michael "Cocaine" Irvin stabbed a teammate with some scissors on the Cowboys lol Dallas Cowboys in the 90's make the Bulls look like choir boys lol
Exactly. IT not being on the dream team was never about whether his talent warranted being on the team or not. That team was going to dominate everybody likely with whenever they had on the squad from the pros. Magic was on that team and was retired - granted he still was probably at the talent level anyways. Bird was struggling with his back issues and retired right after the Olympics. But they were there because they were legends of the NBA but also were still great players. But IT had issues with basically everybody on that team based on how he and his team played the game. It would’ve been one thing if MJ pushed for him to not be on the team and other players pushed back but notice how nobody did including his own coach. Magic said in the book he wrote with Larry that he helped keep him off the team because he believed he had made comments about his sexuality. MJ probably did something but people can’t forget that it was a ton of guys who didn’t wanna spend two months with him. Right or wrong I get it.
Exactly. IT not being on the dream team was never about whether his talent warranted being on the team or not. That team was going to dominate everybody likely with whenever they had on the squad from the pros. Magic was on that team and was retired - granted he still was probably at the talent level anyways. Bird was struggling with his back issues and retired right after the Olympics. But they were there because they were legends of the NBA but also were still great players. But IT had issues with basically everybody on that team based on how he and his team played the game. It would’ve been one thing if MJ pushed for him to not be on the team and other players pushed back but notice how nobody did including his own coach. I get that it stinks for that to be the reason he was excluded from the team but it’s also a reality that how you treat the people around you will have consequences in the end. If it was a situation where not having the tip top talent could change the game results then he’d have been on the team I’m sure but when it doesn’t matter it can work this way.
Lol Doug can't handle disagreement
Zeke didn’t make the comment about bird he just agreed with the comment that Rodman made....
It still dont make it better.
It was said in jest. Doug is truly an idiot wow AND the tooth fairy is real too Doug.
Bradford Miller jr you still can’t take words out of context. Who made the exact comment? Rodman. Did Isiah agree? Yes. Why? Because a weaker leader would’ve thrown rookie Rodman under the bus 🚌 but didn’t.
Actually it was worse that he agreed. He validated what Rodman was saying. Isiah was the face of the franchise. No one would of cared if it was only Rodman.
Trulysarcastic44 listen to the audio he was clearly laughing when he said he agreed with Rodman. He did not truly believe the comment at all. Thomas was good friends with a lot of the Celtic players such as mchale, he clearly was just joking when he agreed. Stop painting Thomas as some evil benevolent person.
Fox sports ought to do something about Doug and his racist and classist stuff. Detroit is and always has been a hardworking city that is just like every other major city in the world in that it has its problems, and always has, and likely always will, but people are constantly working to solve what they can, and they’re living strong in Detroit.
I’m supportive of this statement 👍
So why do you listen to him?
This my be the first time I have ever agreed with Rob Parker.
Ugh ill never listen to Gottlieb again.
Mario Hostios Yes you will. He is so bad he draws all of us in.
@spacestar28 😐 which means you will again.
Same he's a dickhead who id KO in a sec
spacestar28 I may not like the guys takes, but imma still be listening because their opinions draw in crowds
Isiah deserved to be on that team. He earned it. Doug just doesn’t like Zeke which is why all of his points are contradictory. Rob was consistent with his argument.
He was a great player, but others didn't want him....that's a fair assessment. Great player not needed, nor wanted.
@Mari Jata yes I did. But those aren't the rulers of the league/team. He pissed off the top 3 (basically the reason why the nba is huge)
The Dream Team wasn't about collecting the top talent. Bird couldn't play anymore and Magic was retired. It was about marketing the NBA to a global audience. They needed the people that could best be marketed and that was Jordan, Magic and Bird. Everyone else was just gravy. They certainly didn't need Isiah to win and definitely didn't want his presence to piss off the three top dogs. He dug his own grave in the years leading up to 92. He fell in it when he walked off the court.
depannist Isiah deserved fo be on the team. It doesn’t matter how any of the other guys felt. If you’re accumulating the best players of an era it’s wrong to not have on that team and add insult to injury have his coach coach the team who apparently didn’t have any issue with his behavior. Just because he’s not liked doesn’t mean he didn’t earn his spot.
@@Tariq8442 You completely missed my point. I literally said it wasn't about collecting the top talent, smh.
Isiah is the greatest "little man" of all time. He's the only TRUE point guard under 6'5 to lead his team to multiple championships
Steph
John Berry not even a curry fan and I’m from Detroit , east side. Curry changed the game
Well a couple of championships. Michael Jordan led his team to multiple championships. Also Thomas did not win Finals MVP for both of his 2 championships, only one in 1990. I still agree that Isiah was the leader for both championships, however Jordan was the LEADER for ALL 6 of his championships and he won 6 Finals MVPs.
Steph didn't lead two teams like Isiah did, 2017 & 18 Curry was the locker room leader, Durant was the on the floor leader, 2015 like Rob said no Kyrie, no Love, and Iggy was the Finals MVP, Isiah was just the leader of the Bad Boys period, no qualifiers necessary, beat prime MJ, they did beat Bird and the CELTICS, that did happen Doug, Ewing's Knicks, Showtime, won the Finals MVP in both of them, he is the greatest player under 6'5" to ever play, Steph is barely top 5, Isiah= top 15 all time, Steph=borderline top 25, y'all can go ahead and gtfo now, thank you 👋
No he is not Walt fraizer was the other!! But Zeke is my all time favorite player but Walt fraizer did it as well and Bob Cousy did it too!!
But he played with Clyde Drexler and they hated he each other stop the bs Doug
Isiah might've rubbed alot of people the wrong way, but Isaiah did beat MJ, Brid and Magic. u cant take that away from him. love em or hate em
Yea he and laimbeer beat the crap out of Jordan and many others although they didn't know they were playing football on the basketball court
jduran400 I guess we know exactly what the excuse would have been had the Knicks ever beaten the bulls.
Yeah.. Can't deny, he beat some beasts..
Doug falls flat on his face when saying that Isiah didn't beat Bird and Magic.
@King Tubbzzz you mean the 88 Finals.
Well Bird didn’t play in GM 6 in the ‘88 Conf Final..... Magic pulled his hamstring during the 89 Finals and Byron Scott was hurt as well. As a result the Pistons swept em
Karl Malone had a kid with a minor and never talked to the kid we can bring up peoples past all on the team
The way doug took that larry bird line so personal plus the way he low key made excuses for Jordan not calling out a white supremacist politician.......doug is looking a little suspect today......racially
Whether you like Zeke or not, HE DESERVED to be on the dream team. Period.
Plus everybody making a big deal about what he said in regards to Magic.... listen in the 80s, with all the male celebrities from that era that have admitted they slept with men then throw in Magic's son, I would not be surprised if Zeke was just telling the truth and Magic is gay
Doug and many others are really only ecstatic that MJ didn't call out Helms because it would've made them uncomfortable/guilty with the race issue. Also, relatively speaking, the stiffs in the sporting world at that time was just getting over superstar athlete Mohammed Ali holding a mirror to America and highlighting their racism against black people
Magic is probably bi and if every other great player in the league couldn't stand him then he deserved to stay home.
The liberals are just as racist as the conservatives.
Doug has always came across as very racist. He is known for that.
@@demondwilliams7345 racist white people are in every political party in America
When Fox Sports decides to have a literal Playa Haters Ball
😂
😂😂😂😂
😂
doug speaking facts sensitive dudes
Doug is so annoying lol
Doug is right on this one, most of those guys on the Dream Team didn't want Isaiah on the team, not because of his playing ability but because they didn't like him !!!!!
Facts. Zeek made enemies of most of that team.
I admire Pippen for being honest and true to himself. He didn't change his stance just to improve his image. Please remember it's only a game or a job. Not our place to judge a man's entire character,career, legacy based on one incident. Yes, he is flawed like rest of us!
I agree and still love pipp. Zeke is the only man running around trying to refute history
@@dudesweet1583 JORDAN IS A PETTY SENSITIVE CRY BABY.. BIRD DID THE SAME EXACT THING .
Well he apologized to the team for his actions so when he said he wouldn't do anything differently its kinda hypocritical, why apologize then..
@@dudesweet1583 But you're the type the wants to hang on to Zeke's mistake.
@realone7405 Cool and I bet the pistons didn’t like it when it happened to them either. But they did it anyways. But Jordan’s issue wasn’t if the Celtics did it or not. When the Pistons beat down the Bulls the prior years Jordan stuck around and shook their hand. He gave them the respect he felt was owed and expected he’d get that in return. If MJ didn’t stick around and shake their hands before then all is fair. But he shook their hand and gave them respect and they should have reciprocated rather than making excuses and passing the buck for their behavior by pointing fingers at another team. You don’t justify your wrong actions by pointing out somebody rlse did the wrong thing too. Not hard to grasp.
Doug talking a bunch of hersay and not facts. Magic and Zeke wasnt cool around the Dream Team era they were no longer best friends and it was way before Magic came out as HIV Positive
How is it hearsay? The point is nobody liked Zeke like that. He is a dick. With that said he is underrated and the greatest little guy in NBA history. Maybe curry is better.
@Red HawK13 and he ain't better than Isaiah besides shooting 3s.
Magic came out as Positive already
The Dream Team was announced in Sept 1991. Magic's HIV press conference and his retiring was in November 1991.
@@Topagendadolla i was with you until curry.....yeah...no
Come on we all know that it was Jordan. What's worst for Bird, Isaiah's comments or Barkley holding him down to get beat up by Dr. J? He was on the team.
Throughout all of this, Stockton is being disrespected. Thomas was awesome, but stop with this narrative that Stockton didn't belong. BS.
mark brinton The point is Stockton didn’t belong on the team ahead of Isiah because Isiah was a far better player who had “led” his team to 2 championships. His credentials were far better at the time. Those are just facts. No disrespect to Stockton to admit that.
Isiah wuz way way way way way way way way way way better than Stockton at least 10x better
Isiah got hurt in the finals Doug but he don’t like that and he knocked off Bird in 88 fully healthy.
Fire Angel Chris I was saying the same thing about Zeke getting hurt in 88. Doug didn’t mention that
Bird was not fully healthy in 88
@@jessieurena7583 Bird avg 30 that year
Facts
@King Tubbzzz yes he did .. Isiah fucked 4 straight finals appearances
Ro "I don't believe your story because I heard a different story" Parker is right.
DOUG GOTTLIEB WHAT ABOUT WHEN YOU PLAGIARIZE AND STOLE SOMEONES LAPTOP...... GTFOH... WANT TO TALK ABOUT CHARACTER
The real reason that everyone is so upset with Isiah Thomas is because he refuses to worship Michael Jordan. Good for him!!!!
This guy, Doug, is blowing smoke & fanning the fire. LMAO... So you're telling me Isiah didn't lead his team to victory against The Celtics & The Lakers because Larry, Magic & Byron Scott were injured? GTFOH!!!
& for the record, Isiah NEVER questioned Magics sexuality!! That was one of those big rumours for many years. Magic had certain people in his ear telling him lies. All in all this guy sounds like a Isiah Thomas MEGA HATER!!😄😄😄
Yeah it was Magic's agent Lon Rosen who told Magic that lie. Rosen HATED Isaiah for cutting the amount the agents could receive on a player's contract when he was head of the union. Rosen vowed to get even with Isaiah. Gottlieb is an idiot for believe that BS>
Thats not the point, the point Doug is making, it was a team without the top player, do you not get that?
Even if Isiah Thomas shook hands after he lost to the Bulls, the NBA would have found another reason to leave him off the Dream Team.
FOESHOW
He gave them plenty over the years.
MJ, Pippen, Magic and probably Bird didn’t want him on the team, stop the nonsense
More than four star players had problems with Isaiah and they didn't want to play with him
@@MrSayWhatIThink23 That's true, but why should that have mattered? It's supposed to be the best collection of talent to represent the USA, not the "who we're cool with" Team.
Doug might be worse than nick wright
BTW Magic not MJ initiated the exclusion of Isiah, read Jackie McMullin's book when the game was ours ; As laimbeer said, he,not Isiah led the walkoff
Mike didn't want Isaiah because Mike himself was such a fantastic guy
Fantastic is a new word for sensitive?
@@mobetta2092 I'm thinking her statement is sarcasm
Doug is another bitter bum athlete that didn’t make it...baby Whitlock
The way Doug was going on Isiah I'm surprised he didn't bring up Anucha Brown.
LoL Doug holding that L!
A lot of players on that team didnt want Zeke participating. Jordan, Magic, Bird, Malone and Pipen. And none of the others were willing to argue against, including his own coach. Zeke went to far with a lot of those players and didnt show fair play and spotsmanship. Talent wise, he sholud have been part of dream team, but he has only himself to blame.
Everyone listening to this:
👀👀👀😃😃😃😃😬😬😬😆😆😆
Lost alot of respect for Doug for that Detroit comment.. Justifies Bird for waking off but criticizes Isaiah.. You're hypocrite
Isiah deserved to be on that team, but he must accept the fact that his actions kept him off the Dream Team.
It says a lot that the best players in the world didn't fight to get him on that team. Rob can spin it however he wants, but that's just the fact.
Our actions have consequences. Sometimes they come when we least expect them. 🤷🏽♂️
Also, Rob if you feel that way about Jordan, then why in the hell do you wear his shoes?!??
If Zeke said that why TF Magic accept him back as a friend? FOH. NO way Magic having sit down if Zeke called him gay.
I’m a die hard Bulls and Jordan fan but the media treats Isaiah Thomas terrible. Almost everyone in America thought having HIV was connected to being gay back then also Isaiah never tongue and cheek back what Rodman said about Bird. As far as leaving the court early no one ever holds Bird and The Celtics to that same narrative because The Celtics did the exact same thing to The Pistons
Isaih wasn’t a bad person funny how y’all act like a handshake is more important then someone walking over your accomplishments. Them dudes used to play on the all star team with each other ridiculous
Generally when someone loses in sports they shake hand baseball basketball hockey football it shows character Lol live in a different day where being an ass or jerk is celebrated
Im glad that freeze out at the All Star myth is finally being dispelled !! That wasn't Isiah and them other players wouldn't have followed him
And if it was orchestrated by Zeke, why isn't Dr. J, Bird, Moses, Parrish, etc not blamed as accessories...they could've passed MJ the ball....they were all NBA champs at the time and Isiah wasn't, and also Isiah's senior.
@@mobetta2092 I watched the game and Jordan did get up 9 shots and Ice Man went 1 on 1 with him a lot during the game and the other players would stand around,that was probably what they decided to let happen because at the time Gervin was the top shooting guard in the West and Jordan was just kid so to me it was just making him earn it ,I don't think it would have been a big deal if it was anyone else because I'm most all star games the vets take the most shots and play the most,look at the All-Star games today
@@NoSpinster0909 you're the 1st person who've had an opinion about the game and actually claimed to have watched it. I admit I don't recall seeing it as you have but common sense to me is that it's unfair to blame Zeke under the circumstances I previously mentioned. It'd be one thing to say Zeke didn't pass him the ball when he had possession of it, but whe others had possession of the ball and if they didn't pass to MJ, how can that be blamed on Isiah, even if he did orchestrate a "freeze out"? They're acting as if Zeke as a 4yr player at the time had Bill Russell caliber clout.
Clear example that Doug has no idea what he's talking about. Calls to quess whether he should have a talk show at all. Shout out to his research team for getting him this far!
Rob Parker won this debate. A lot of people excusing Michael Jordan’s bad behavior. Michael won’t admit to anything he did wrong. Isiah wasn’t on dream team because of Jordan. The Last Dance even admits it when Jerry Reinsdorf was asked about the team. He told Jordan a certain someone will not be on the team.
No you lying. Nobody said that and the others didn't want him there. Quit putting that on Jordan.
What did jordan do wrong? He told em its him or me and they pick him. When you're the greatest player in history you get to do things like that.
This is what Kings do. They rule. Everyone bends the knee. Isaiah didn't want to bend the knee. Therefore, he suffers. Welcome to rulership.
Doug with the classic "I'm white and I say so."
To me it comes down to two things. Rob thinks that even if Jordan, Bird, and Magic didnt want Isiah on the team that his career warranted him on the team. Dougs belief is that the team was not only about talent but the chemistry/ enough guys just did not want him on the team for a variety of reasons. *the last dance director on the Jalen&Jacoby show (post the dream team ep) said that also Scottie had bad blood, and that he talked to people that said that Joe Dumars was the guy from the Pistons that was going to go but Chuck Daley decided not to because of the problems it would have caused with Thomas that next season for the Pistons. That floored me. Dream Team wanted Dumars for his defense.
9:36 Gottlieb was ready to hang up the phone connection on Rob!...🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Ppl really abandon common logic to worship this dude
Zeke didnt freeze out or tell the other players to freeze MJ in the 87' all star game. That narrative doesnt even make sense. He wasnt an NBA champion yet he was still losing to the Celtics at that time. He didnt have the Clout to tell players Larry Bird, Moses Malone, Dr J, Kevin McHale to not Pass MJ the Ball.
Doug is a douchebag and Rob is a king and Michael Jordan is a diva... And Rob is right about that because he said if Isiah Thomas's on the team then I don't want to play... All because he didn't congratulate him with a handshake... That let me know right there that Jordan is a girly man... He got mad at the Pistons because they roughed them up...
Doug the same guy that said Tim Duncan wouldn’t been great on today in NBA
This was a good conversation
Larry Bird not only played Doug but he averaged 45 minutes a game that series what are you talking about
I used to like Gottlieb!
If FS1 has any class, minimally they'd immediately make Doug Gottleib publicly apologize to their viewers and especially the City of Detroit for his disrespectful comments. Many of FS1 and Gottleib's ratings are from sport fans from the City of Detroit, just as from any other place.
There are countless sports teams and figures that we as sports fans can debate, but a discussion should never become so petty that we're making bad comments about cities.. a national host from a reputable station especially shouldn't be the one making such dispicable comments.
Facts....but this is par for the course for Doug...he's always been an anti black type of a guy...
I think it’s pretty safe to say Doug and Rob don’t really like each other much lol
Amir Neptune no doubt. This wasn’t healthy disagreement between friends.
Lol they sounded like me and my dad arguing about sports and then the ole “what are you doing rn” when there’s a bunch of background noise mid argument lol
😂😂😂😂
WTH is the point about arguing something that happened 30 freaking years ago. Last I checked the Dream Team won the gold and it wasn't even close. They didn't need Isaiah.
your statement is even more reason to allow Thomas to play. it wasn't even close, so having him on the team would not have mattered at all and you could have just given him 10 min a game and let it go at that
@@Grief_Weasel It was easier just to leave him off than include him knowing the personal issues Isaiah would present.
Lmao Doug is awful.
Rob is right
Chill on my city Doug.......keep it to sports.
Dang Rob evicerated Doug bruh
ROB PARKER finally with some heat
I hope Doug remembers context when talking about the Lakers 88 championship (Isiah hurting and the terrible foul call). I hope he remembers context when the Celtics walked off the court as well.
Gottlieb just lost my respect moving forward. He needs to repent and apologize for making a crude and disrespectful comment about the chance of living in Detroit. Distasteful..Check yourself man.
Word...completely unnecessary...he was getting bested and took a shot at Detroit...not a good look 🤷🏾♂️
Does anyone actually enjoy listening to Gottlib. Really annoying know all.
Agreed... he sucks.
I mean... you clicked on his video lmao
@@Luggsx to listen to rob parker
Truth...
Doug is using facts peroid he is right
In an interview with the great sportswriter Mitch Album after Isiah won his first title in 1989 said, "I understand what I had to do a long time ago in terms of statistics and trying to play the game the correct way it is supposed to be played and I understood and I know that I would be penalized for doing that but I saw the end result would be a championship. And I had to decide which I wanted more. Do I want to be recognized as one of the best guards supposedly in the league by a mass and a great amount of statistics or do I want to win a championship and have piece of mind?
The decision I came to is that I want to win a championship and its a hard decision to make simply because there are so many other guys in the league who make the other decision that they are going to score a lot of points and they are going to do the things to take care of themselves and not take the criticism that you have to take.
I was hell bent on winning a championship and that was the only way that I could see to do it.
I understood the price I had to pay, and I paid the price and I more or less got what I wanted".
A CHAMPIONSHIP!!
Thanks
So we're just going to ignore the fact that damn near every player on that team has come out to say that they didn't want Isiah on it the team. Magic Johnson wrote in his book that he told them he didn't want to play with Isiah. I'm sure Jordan didn't want to play with him either. But why are we trying to pin it on one guy?
Isiah Thomas wuz at least 10x better than John Stockton
Karl Malone was one of the dirtiest players in the league and he was on the team. Don't give me Isiah being a bad or dirty player, he had more than enough talent and was better than Stockton, Magic, and Bird at the time. Not to mention Christian Laettner.
Never better than Jordan
Thomas strikes me as a sly snake..proper fake smile-backstabber....no one wants to hang around guys like that
@Red HawK13 Zeke wasn't on Bird's level? 😂😂😂😂 Yeah right. He was better than Bird and Stockton that year like I said. Stockton only ended up playing 4 games anyways. And they had the Pistons coach!
And why did Team USA opt for Laettner instead of...SHAQ?! I wonder
@@StillTre_ Because he was national player of the year and back to back national champion? Dude was the most recognizable college player that decade and is prob a top 10 college player all time. Shaq obv ended up being much better in the pros but it's not crazy that they picked the best and most famous college player to be the college representative
@@Stephen246666 Have all those accolades and still not go #1 overall in the draft. 😂 Gtfoh
Doug no basketball player take what you say seriously it’s crazy
How is this guy even in sports talk? Who approved Doug Gottlieb? 🤦🏿♂️
Comments about Detroit are inappropriate
I'm not an Isaiah Thomas fan. At all. But I don't understand how Michael Jordan can state that he did whatever it took to win. And we applaud him for it. Thomas did the exact same thing to win and we vilify him for it. It's hypocritical.
That's the point. That's been the beef of all Pistons' fans and players since the 80s. If those same Bad Boys had been playing in NY as the Knicks back then, the ENTIRE narrative would be different. No way do you mention Magic, Jordan & Bird WITHOUT Isiah b/c the NY media wouldn't allow it. Nor would they have allowed David Stern to leave dude off the Dream Team.
@@bOmBAsTiK Facts if Zeke would had played in New York and won those back to back titles he would be a top 5 player of all time!!
This Doug Guy is sooooooo soft ....wayyyyy to emotional
This argument was fantastic. Finally a different perspective from someone not coddling isaih.
Gottlieb was too young to understand the context of Zeke's comment; Rodman said it in anger, Isiah had it repeated to him, pretended to agree, and then LAUGHED mockingly. Oh, and most of Jordan's highlights in the All-Star game are off Isiah assists. So much for the "freeze-out" narrative. But yeah, "today's players are soft and sensitive." FOH
Rob saved this interview n killed Doug
Isiah Thomas is a saint compared to Karl Malone.
Who pissed in Gottliebs Cheerios 🤣🤣🤣
Rob riding for the Pistons like he's from Detroit 😅..... Oh wait🤔 smh
Doug is talking about 1989 when the Celtics played the Pistons in the first round bird didnt play because of double heel surgery.
These dudes dont like one another🤣
They sure don’t. I can’t stand Doug Gottlieb 😂😂
I totally agree with Rob
This was great
Thank you DOUG!!! Isiah is NOT INNOCENT!!
Honest, sincere but heated talk. These guys need a tv show with each other. Better than Stephen A and Max or Shannon and Skip
If we going based on Doug's standard then Jordan didn't really beat Isaiah because he had a broken right wrist.
MJ was a horrible person!
Did you know him?
P u s
😄😄😅😅😅😅😅
A "horrible" person is only perceived through the limited mind of man.
Wrong he wasnt
What is with them isiah they talking about him all the time? He wasn't even the last 4 episodes
That was a great demote. I’m with Doug tho
Isaiah beat Bird in 88, in the playoffs, should have beat the Lakers that year, then beat them in 89 and Magic was 29. And was stepping on MJs neck the entire time. Isiah Thomas is the greatest little man to play the game period!
Hey Rob!! When u mention Jesse Helms, Doug changed the tone real quick!!! Compared to hating on Isaiah.
Totally, with his Republican ass
Rob in the back mixin drinks, LOL.
😂😂😂😂
So Doug is ok with Jordan referring the Pistons as "Thugs"?
Doug's cool with that because that's new the code name
Why wouldnt he be? They were thugs. Everyone called them thugs.
@@desconocidod3119 Definition of a thug is a tough guy according to Webster. I don't recall the correlation between skin color and behavior within the definition. I guess the Celtics didn't play rough or the "thug" way.
@@TomestisVivian What on earth does skin tone have to do with anything? The Pistons were thugs because they clotheslined people. The Celtics played good defense and didnt resort to that every play. It has nothing to do with skin tone whatsoever. Bill laimbeer was the biggest thug of all. Nothing tough about him, either.
And they were just that. Thugs and disrespectfull bumps.