The principal’s office scene could easily have been fixed if the secretary had called “Stan Pines” instead of the “Pines twins.” Just have Stan and Ford give each other a look, shrug, and go together, and the rest of the scene plays out exactly the same.
I always just assumed that the principal wanted to have a talk with the parents, and each of the twins, but Stanley left before it was his turn, but your solution is so elegant
Way I see it the school staff don’t care to know just which is which by name. They’re *both* “Stan Pines” (Stan-ley and -ford respectively) but they probably don’t know which one is the smart one and which is the goofball unless they’re looking right at them. It WAS public school after all.
unfortunally school administration is VERY problematic like that "Can the [My last name] siblings come to the office... despite me and my sister having two very different names and where two grades apart. they couldn't bother to tell us apart
Dude did you not see the "dungeons, dungeons, and more dungeons" episode? It very clearly states that Grunkle Stan's alignment...is awesome. Which is a type of logic that there is no arguing with.
I'd like to quote "If i die,Make sure i get a bigger gravestone then Ford" before jumping off an exploding Mt Rushmore knockoff to save his grandnephews. Trully,Chaotic Awesome.
I'm positive that the part with the puppy smuggling is purely a visual gag referencing that he has a record for "Pug trafficing" mention by the news caster in the previous episode that they thought worth showing. Considering that Pugs are worth a lot in some countries... Yeah.
I'd like to note, Stan getting his memory back was a very long process, it was just hard to show how long it was within the episode. The journal expands on this a lot
Unpopular opinion: Stan getting his memory back isn’t a flaw with the show’s writing. Stan was still perfectly willing to get his mind wiped to save the universe and his family, and he went into it knowing that it would almost certainly be permanent. Him getting his memories back doesn’t take away from this massive character moment, ESPECIALLY with how incredible the rest of the finale was, and it wouldn’t have been possible if Stan didn’t remember anything. We couldn’t have gotten a proper sendoff between Stan and the kids, or Soos, or anything like that if the focus was too much on how sad Stan losing his memories was. Plus it’s ultimately a family show, so it can’t really have such a depressing ending.
and mcgucket got his memories back even though he used the gun on himself about 30 times, complaining about stan remembering is honestly pretty stupid.
@@ItsSupercat94 True, I didn’t even think about that. Tbf, he did literally watch them play out in front of him, which caused that, but pictures and stuff should probably do the trick too
It also ties perfectly into the idea that the little chaotic dream demon is not gone. A thing we know is cannon thanks to the axolotl, one way or another, bill lives, and thus, stans sacrifice was always in vain. It failing is just another means in which it shows it wouldn't have worked.
Also it would be thematically sucky. No one would be able to recover, and it would be... unfulfilling. Plus, the angst still is there! He may have the important parts back, but there's no way he doesn't have more memories to rediscover
19:43 the joke is a continuation of last episodes jokes, when the news anchor list Stan's crimes one of them is "pug trafficking" which prompt him to ask the twins _"on an unrelated note, I have a large quantity of pugs I need to get rid of"_ so in this episode opening we see he found a way to do so. the show have a few inter-episodes jokes (like ben franklin being a woman) and I think they're great
For the secretary scene, I thought the implication was that the Secretary couldn't be bothered learning the Pine Twin's names, so she just called both so she wouldn't make a mistake, and then just let the one wearing glasses into the office.
I always assumed the secretary called both, the parents clarified that they only wanted _Standford_ but she was either too lazy to make the correction, or didn't want to lose face. Like announcing a correction makes the staff and school look incompetent (they are), but just casually telling _Stanley_ to sit there, and having them both go back to class later, covers the mistake up.
I think it's unfair to say that Stan getting his memory back undoes his heroic sacrifice- the dude still absolutely did all of that and fully expected to sacrifice himself, it undoes nothing and just stops the ending from being extremely depressing. Plus, didn't him getting his memory back actually take a while anyway? It's the last episode, so we don't experience that time gap, but isn't it implied that it took a while for that to happen?
9:28 I would like to mention the moment in the Pioneer episode where Pacifica asks him to declare that the Pines family sucks (paraphrasing a bit here), and when Stan asks if she wants that in writing, he seems to do so, but instead he wrote "YOU STINK." He's pretty proud of this, more of the fact that he did that with his mouth (as he had been in been shackles at the time), despite the trouble that soon follows. Would you call this Chaotic Good, or Chaotic Neutral? Worth a mention either way.
Chaotic Neutral as it is a means to defend his own familial honor. Albeit a somewhat childish one. It'd be Chaotic Good if it was defending another persons honor or family honor.
8:26 Stan: "You had your chance at the cotillion, you!" TV: "You had your chance at the cotillion, you!" Stan: "That's what I'm sayin'!" TV: "I may be a duchess, but I'm also a woman!" Stan (crying): "Yes! You go, girl!"
What if, instead of being Bill Cipher reincarnation, Stan is instead a alternate version of him? We already saw alternate versions of him, even a frog one in Amphibia. So it could be plausible
Or even, perhaps, the Stan twins being a *split* version of him. Stanley carrying the chaotic and deceptive elements while Stanford held the thirst for knowledge and superiority complex. Not really an even split and of course they both develop in their own ways.
i am operating under the assumption that bill is living on in stans head as quite literally a memory that refuses to stay as one. the being is and always has been able to move and act of its own accord in the realm of the mind. this really would be nothing special for him, bill is just now more limited after suffering near death and evoking a deal from a being that likely isn't partial to him even if it gave him this out
13:12 Just a small nit-pick here, it was meant to be implied that Robbie's music was not actually mind controlling Wendy with backwards talk. In fact, in the original script Robbie was supposed to be a plagiarist and all of the songs he "wrote" were actually copied from another rock band that liked to hide backwards messages in their songs just like some did in real life. However, these backwards messages were not meant to be taken seriously, as you can't actually control someone's actions using backwards messages on account that no one would be able to understand them. This point was unable to be made clear to us though due to production constraints, and because this show constantly deals with the supernatural, the audiences' reaction was to believe that the backward messages were real and were actually controlling Wendy, though to me personally watching it the first time it felt as though the writers purposefully left this point open and vague as to let the audience decide or figure out if the messages were actually doing something. The real intention was that Dipper just could not understand why Wendy would be going out with Robbie and thought that there NEEDED to be an explanation to it. He just so happened to find these backwards messages and assumed that they NEEDED to be the reason she was going out with him and not because she actually liked him. But again, this is just a small nit-pick that has no bearing on Grunkle Stan's involvement/alignment dings, ... unless I'm remembering the episode wrong, idk.
Stan being a reincarnation of bill also explains how he is so good with the mindscape. I always found it weird how memory stan was able to give dipper that pep talk and explain how the mindscape worked.
The advice at 21:07 is advice that I definitely needed when I was a kid I think all kid shows should teach kids that Just because you're growing up doesn't mean you need to grow up.
I think a good way to handle the sacrifice scene without making it a downer ending is if they showed him the scrapbook and he started to remember but didn't completely remember everything. It would have been a really cool open ending.
They did their best to make it clear that it was a very slow process, but they just didn't have enough time left in the episode to do it the way they wanted, so it seems like an instant memory recovery, even though it wasn't. The journal explains the lengthy process much better than the show could've
I think Stan deserves a few more Chaotic Evil dings for his more destructive crimes -- the shady carnival, forcing Dipper and Mabel to make him counterfeit money, putting the fate of the entire world at risk to get back his brother, etc. I'd classify him as pretty solidly Chaotic Neutral. I love Stan. He's a hilarious and fantastically well-written character. But pug-smuggling doesn't magically become okay just because an otherwise-lovable guy is doing it.
@@actanonverba3041 Look at how tightly those pugs are packed in together. Presumably they'll be trapped in that barrel for the duration of the trip. That's animal abuse. Dogs are social creatures, but even they need a bit of their own space. This type of mistreatment tends to happen when animals are transported illegally, because the type of people who engage in such trade tend to care more about their money than the well-being of their cargo. If you've got an explanation for how animal cruelty is actually a good thing, I'd love to hear it.
@@augustrempelewert4377 pug trafficking implies there are laws restricting the movement or ownership of pugs, so because those laws are wrong, violating them is always right
@@augustrempelewert4377 also if you’re seriously gonna argue that what is at best mild animal abuse makes stan significantly more evil you’re being ridiculous.
@@actanonverba3041 Even if a law is overly restrictive, saying that violating it is always right is outrageous. For example: in Singapore, you can be fined up to $1000 for littering. Is that unreasonably harsh? Yeah. But that doesn't mean littering isn't bad. Also, I'm not arguing that the animal abuse singlehandedly makes Stan a terrible person. I'm saying that it's one of a number of bad things Stan has done that aren't being counted against him in this video.
Alternate theory: Bill didn't reincarnate as Stan, but Bill's prayer/incantation or whatever is why Stan was able to come back. Bill was trying to invoke some power that could bring him back after he was wiped out. Not certain if it could bring Bill back, but it effectively created a way for Stan to get his memories back.
22:55 Immediately is a strong word. I’ve seen the immediate version of this in Centaurworld’s finale, it’s much worse. It’s like if they cut everything between Ford hugging Stan and the news report.
You are correct, Not What He Seems is the best episode, giving it advantage and rolling two nat 20s! And you are also correct, Stan Pines is not only the best character in GF, but I've placed him in the pantheon of mentor characters, second only to the likes of Mr. Miyagi
Someone must have said this, but, in the wax figure ep, it's widely believed he mourned wax stan so much because it looked so much like him, and by extention, his brother, so it might have felt like ford's disappearance all over again Also, the room dipper and mabel discover in the sleepover episode is the same room stan slept in after ford disappeared into the portal. You can see him pick up the glasses as he's trying to keep an apathetic facade. So yeah.
"If Ford made anything even remotely commercially viable Stan could've been the salesman." Ow, just... ow that hurts. Stan's life really did get completely screwed by one stupid mistake exasperated by him being to stubborn to talk to his brother. No wonder he became such a cynical, bitter man by the time episode 1 of the show begins.
Stan was/is a conman. He took whatever information he could in Mabel's attempts at jogging his memory (she was showing him multiple pages of her scrapbook) and used it to 'prove' he wasn't really gone to be accepted by the people he could tell were hoping to get 'him' back. The name Waddles alongside a picture of him would absolutely be in one of the pages she showed him due to her love for Waddles. His memories might be gone but his ability to understand/speak English means he still has some knowledge left in his head.
Yeah, that’s the thing about memory. Memories are a physical part of a person’s brain. I imagine what the memory gun does is it basically scours the brain for neurons connecting to that subject and cuts the ties to it. So anything that isn’t directly linked to “Stanley Pines” would stay mostly intact, with a few gaps here and there. And of course his *pattern* of thinking and learning are still there. So yeah it makes sense that as a conman he learned how to pick up on details to read expectations
without watching the video, I'm gonna say Chaotic Good. sure, he's willing to make dubious ethical compromises, but he's the furthest thing from heartless. He's just a hero who doesn't play by the rules.
The alignment videos made on series that you clearly love are usually the best alignment videos, and this trilogy was no exception. Stay mysterious, and take care of yourselves!
Instead of bill reincarnating in stanley just to save himself, I like better the idea that maybe bill saved himself by saving stan's memories and now he lives as a part of stan's subconcious as a price to save both. it keeps the sense it makes poetically and tematically, and it removes tht ugly idea that stan isn't stan but it's just bill reincarnated in him. It could even be an interesting side story to have bill and stanley understand eachothers backstory.
The 'drug trafficking' joke is from the previous episode, 19:38 lists 'Pug Trafficking' on his criminal record, so next episode he's trying to get rid of the evidence You also tragically missed one of my favourite Gravity Falls lines in there! 'A new crime he invented called Burgle-Bezzlement'
Marlin starts off lawful neutral and ends up lawful good leaning neutral good, Dory is neutral good, and Nemo starts neutral and ends up somewhere on the good scale, probably more chaotic
SECOND! Also thank you so much for making this series! Love it so much, even if most people seem to think that alignment is going out of fashion. Also Gravity Falls is my favorite show of all time, makes me so happy to see it's still relevant today. Keep making the good content! :D (but also dont forget to take care of yourself :) )
A very solid video! I only disagree with one thing really, Stanley is absolutely capable of more serious crimes. He landed himself in Colombian jail due to a heist gone wrong, was part of a bike gang and overall i feel like most of his crimes seem innocent because this is a kid's show. You don't get locked in the trunk of a car for scamming people Also he married Marilyn during those 10 years, not the 30 when he was fixing the portal But other than that, i completely agree with the video! Great work!
Here’s my view on the memory wipe. It works, it works perfectly. Stan’s memories are gone. What is it gone this is hucksterism. Stan does not recover his memories what time does his fake recovering his memories because he knows how much it means the people around him and he is very good of a salesman that they believe it. The print copy of journal three makes it clear it takes weeks and weeks to get it done.
Ya'know. I remember seeing people think Dipper was gonna blow up at Mabel over not pressing the Portal button. But no, he wouldn't. Not when it is so painfully obvious that Dipper would've noticed how blatantly *wrong* *HE* *was* when the Author of the Journels popped out.
I think Bill is more so stuck in Stan's head and with what little power Bill had he gave Stan's memory back maybe cause it would be in the long run easier for some reason...? 🤷♀️🔺(Imagine it's yellow and not red)
The office scene makes some sense when you remember that Stan can do a perfect impression of his brother. Bringing both twins before telling the brother who isn't needed to stay out is probably easier.
Why would violently getting rid of government agents be good but nonviolently getting rid of them be neutral. I don’t know if that’s what you were implying at around 18:00 but just wanted to clarify the reasoning.
None of what you said here is particularly revelationary, but I LOVE the way you presented it. You have a genuinely talent for painting characters in the best, most authentic light and it's one of the reasons I love your channel. Y'know, beyond my being a D&D nerd who consumes WAY too much pop culture lmao
just gonna throw my two cents out there on the ending. the memory gun was shown to not completely erase the memories of the person it was used on at least not from a single use since the society of the blind eye established it could remove the more targeted memories without completely wiping the mind entirely.at least not without constant and repeatedly use to to effectively break a mind like what happened to Old Man McGucket. alternatively the gun can wipe out kind of the surface of the mind but grunkle stan did have over 70 years of life that over time probably wired a lot of his personality into his brain so even without all the memories who he was at the end still remained. Or you could take it as because his last moments when the gun is wiping everything is him remembering his family and focusing on that, maybe he managed to keep it from being completely wiped out I mean everyone else who used the memory gun on them (aside from dipper shooting ford thinking he was bill) was more or less voluntarily trying to forget something. Its not that unthinkable that if someone was really trying to fight the process they could hold onto some parts of them.
easy fix for the clumsy way of getting both Stans to the principal's office only for Stanley to be rejected is just have the announcement be for "Stan Pines to the Principal's office" this way neither knows who they want till they get there.
The only way I can accept the Bill reincarnation is if the Axolotl sends Bill back in time after his erasure to become Grunkle Stan from the beginning. The idea that he was just erased and became the new mind of Stand doesn't sit well.
Well there was one canon part of the gravity falls Book and many believe it's the scene where dipper and Mable meet the Axolotl. The Axolotl then clearly replied to dippers question on Bill that he would be sent to a different time
Sixty degrees that come in threes. Watches from within birch trees. Saw his own dimension burn. Misses home and can't return. Says he's happy. He's a liar. Blame the arson for the fire. If he wants to shirk the blame, He'll have to invoke my name. One way to absolve his crime. A different form, a different time.
@@EarnestVictory honestly it just came to me that the absolve his crime part is pretty literally. If Stan is Bill reincarnated then that means that Bill stopped Bill to absolve his own crimes.
A little thing about the wax episode,Its important to note that he holds a funeral for Wax Stan,And actually cries during it. It seems like its just a funny joke at first,Until you realize he is holding a funeral for someone who looks just like him...Most likely seeing Wax Stan as a representation of Stanford and griefing at the thought he might have accidentally killed his own brother.
At 8:15 you said that getting rid of government agents is usually always good, but since they did it non-violently you gave it chaotic neutral. This implies that if they were to brutally murder the agents that it would have been chaotic good and I support you.
I've always put Stan under the Chaotic evil/Chaotic Neutral side of the spectrum since it is mentioned that he killed in a llama (First degree- llamacide joke in Stanchurian Candidate) as well as that time in the second episode ("legend of the grobelwonker" or something) where he gets Dipper and Mabel to make him some counterfeit money.
I love the video-record where stan curses "pg", notices he's alone and starts cursing "not so pg". It Shows he doesnt want mabel and dipper to learn curse words. Kinda funny. A nat 100 Episode! Well, the gravity falls vido was awesome!! Nat 36 Videos! Goodbye, see ya in the next Videos! We'll meet again Don't know where, don't know when But i know we meet again Some Sunny Day! Why in all swedish waffles do i always forget what i wanted to comment... Wait, i'm alone! Why THE F-
@@NoirRaven I don't think they were being serious, bro. (And there are a lot of in-jokes about Eda being Stan's ex-wife and the Owl House taking place in the Amphibia universe, so why not?)
Stanley Pines is the best character in GF. No doubt about it. But Bill and Ford come in close second. I love how there are so many themes and bits of lore that tie these characters together.
I know this was such a minor part of the analysis, but a funny thing is that the CD that Robbie used for Wendy? It wasn't actually controlling her. Said in a commentary for the episode, the song was just a normal, ordinary song that was plagiarized. Course that's something the episode should have made more clear.
I never heard of this theory before! It's weird but kinda better than "Bill is still in Stan's head Forever" that I've normally heard. I kind of like it.
FYI they sell a gravity falls journal 3 book that you can buy that tells about all of stanfords adventures in the portal in case you're interested in finding out wjay Stanford did for the 30 years he was trapped in the portal
I see Grunkle Stan having Dipper and Mabel work at the Mystery Shack to teach Them the world of adulthood You know so Dipper and Mabel can get a good job in the future when They become adults He's teaching Them to be more responsible when They get older.
Maybe the Bill reincarnation theory could help with Stan getting his memory back... Like Bill with his powers and in Stans mind made them come back somehow for some reason...
I feel like you could also say that Stan and Bill are simply narrative foils (similar to Dipper and Mabel being foils of the Stans). Both made mistakes that destroyed their family and are ultimately con artists that do many underhanded things. The biggest difference is that Stan never decides to stop caring about his family while Bill decides to only look out for his own amusement. Either way, it's a cool parallel, almost like Bill is what Stan always had the potential to become, but didn't.
3:54: she did that just too get under their skin. i know you were a teacher but you'd be surprised by just how many go on a power trip and will bully kids. they think they wont tell anyone because they see them get picked on by others and they didn't do anything.
The pug trafficking is continuing a joke from the previous episode when they start reading his criminal record on the news and one of them is pug trafficking
"To the point were it's practically canon and confirmed by Alex Hirsch himself" I'm sorry, WHAT!? I firmly believe that the theory is canon but that's the first time I hear about Alex Hirsch hinting anything about it. Was there some sort of interview where he mentioned it? Was something new revealed in the last five years since I've looked up this theory? If there is I can't find it. I would grately appreciate it if somebody enlightened me what he's talking about.
I personally prefer the Bill = Gruncle Stan conclusion since the 'erase it like it never happened' ending falls into the 'infinite timeloop', 'it was all a dream', and 'everything goes random/gets flushed down the toilet' cop-out endings. It also adds that sweet behind the scenes but in plain sight if you know where to look aspect that the show is famous for.
I've seen twins that remind me of Stan and Ford, and I've seen their minds melt because people treated them as a single entity. In sheer. fucking. spite. of the mind boggling effort they would go to to being individualistic. Yeah, the middle school i went to was run by bastards and fiends.
You call all these things chaotic but I see most of his life as lawful. Him constantly rolling around the edge of the law , parts that can only be proven in court, something he found a loophole around as well! If this man was a lawyer I'd hire him if he wouldn't pass out mid case on me!
Okay. Just to get it off my chest cause this is the only place I can say it: Both the stans are 58 at most, not 70. Think about it. They were in high school when Stanley got thrown out, afterwards if was 10 years until they met again and then 30 until the portal got opened back up. I'm willing to believe Stanley got held back some time. But he was in the same class as Stanford, who I sincerely doubt could get held back at all. So, at most they were like 18 when they seperated!
There have to be more than 10 years between Stan getting kicked out and him going to Gravity Falls and Stan just rounded down. There are too many lines about Stan being in his 60’s and pushing 70 for there to be any other explanation.
@@andrewrobinson8542 okay fine. Rounded down, that'd be 14 years. So, 62 or 60 at most. It's.. Better but still, a lot younger than he's made out to be
This is the first time I've heard of the theory and yeah...it kinda doesn't make sense as a full reincarnation. I think of it more as "they both survive somewhat but are now one being that is Gruncle Stan" In the material that actually reveals the Space Axolotl, he seems to be a very neutral good type of creature. One who is inherently good but doesn't usually meddle unless evoked. Now what if the axolotl heard that, saw the sacrifice that Stan made and decided to help both? So Stan gets to live with his memories intact, while Bill continues to live inside Stan's conscious. There but not active. A way for him to not cause any more trouble because there is a check there in the form of Stan.
@@TheLoadingCrew Just gonna start by saying that Gomber feels like a chaotic good character to me. Like when he took the license plate of the boy band director, or took care of the USB stick that Stanford got from the agents
The principal’s office scene could easily have been fixed if the secretary had called “Stan Pines” instead of the “Pines twins.” Just have Stan and Ford give each other a look, shrug, and go together, and the rest of the scene plays out exactly the same.
holy shit I never thought of that
i think the secretary for whatever reason had it out for him.
I always just assumed that the principal wanted to have a talk with the parents, and each of the twins, but Stanley left before it was his turn, but your solution is so elegant
Way I see it the school staff don’t care to know just which is which by name. They’re *both* “Stan Pines” (Stan-ley and -ford respectively) but they probably don’t know which one is the smart one and which is the goofball unless they’re looking right at them.
It WAS public school after all.
unfortunally school administration is VERY problematic like that
"Can the [My last name] siblings come to the office... despite me and my sister having two very different names and where two grades apart. they couldn't bother to tell us apart
Dude did you not see the "dungeons, dungeons, and more dungeons" episode? It very clearly states that Grunkle Stan's alignment...is awesome. Which is a type of logic that there is no arguing with.
Seems legit.
Yeah, ‘awesome’ sounds like Stanley to me.
I believe in true dnd fashion, his alignment should be Chaotic Awesome.
@@thesongbird1679 the opposite of lawful stupid
I'd like to quote "If i die,Make sure i get a bigger gravestone then Ford" before jumping off an exploding Mt Rushmore knockoff to save his grandnephews.
Trully,Chaotic Awesome.
I'm positive that the part with the puppy smuggling is purely a visual gag referencing that he has a record for "Pug trafficing" mention by the news caster in the previous episode that they thought worth showing. Considering that Pugs are worth a lot in some countries... Yeah.
pug rhymes with drugs. i think thats the joke. maybe the video mentioned that already though i havent watched all of it 😅
Instead of smuggling, its PUGgling!
I mean, puppy mills are evil. Chaotic Evil.
I'd like to note, Stan getting his memory back was a very long process, it was just hard to show how long it was within the episode. The journal expands on this a lot
Unpopular opinion: Stan getting his memory back isn’t a flaw with the show’s writing. Stan was still perfectly willing to get his mind wiped to save the universe and his family, and he went into it knowing that it would almost certainly be permanent. Him getting his memories back doesn’t take away from this massive character moment, ESPECIALLY with how incredible the rest of the finale was, and it wouldn’t have been possible if Stan didn’t remember anything. We couldn’t have gotten a proper sendoff between Stan and the kids, or Soos, or anything like that if the focus was too much on how sad Stan losing his memories was. Plus it’s ultimately a family show, so it can’t really have such a depressing ending.
and mcgucket got his memories back even though he used the gun on himself about 30 times, complaining about stan remembering is honestly pretty stupid.
@@ItsSupercat94 True, I didn’t even think about that. Tbf, he did literally watch them play out in front of him, which caused that, but pictures and stuff should probably do the trick too
It also ties perfectly into the idea that the little chaotic dream demon is not gone. A thing we know is cannon thanks to the axolotl, one way or another, bill lives, and thus, stans sacrifice was always in vain. It failing is just another means in which it shows it wouldn't have worked.
I would argue that the memory gun ISN'T permanent. Old Man McGucket got his memories back despite repeated use of the same memory gun.
Also it would be thematically sucky. No one would be able to recover, and it would be... unfulfilling. Plus, the angst still is there! He may have the important parts back, but there's no way he doesn't have more memories to rediscover
19:43 the joke is a continuation of last episodes jokes, when the news anchor list Stan's crimes one of them is "pug trafficking" which prompt him to ask the twins _"on an unrelated note, I have a large quantity of pugs I need to get rid of"_
so in this episode opening we see he found a way to do so.
the show have a few inter-episodes jokes (like ben franklin being a woman) and I think they're great
So your telling me he's pug smuggling
For the secretary scene, I thought the implication was that the Secretary couldn't be bothered learning the Pine Twin's names, so she just called both so she wouldn't make a mistake, and then just let the one wearing glasses into the office.
I always assumed the secretary called both, the parents clarified that they only wanted _Standford_ but she was either too lazy to make the correction, or didn't want to lose face. Like announcing a correction makes the staff and school look incompetent (they are), but just casually telling _Stanley_ to sit there, and having them both go back to class later, covers the mistake up.
I think it's unfair to say that Stan getting his memory back undoes his heroic sacrifice- the dude still absolutely did all of that and fully expected to sacrifice himself, it undoes nothing and just stops the ending from being extremely depressing. Plus, didn't him getting his memory back actually take a while anyway? It's the last episode, so we don't experience that time gap, but isn't it implied that it took a while for that to happen?
9:28 I would like to mention the moment in the Pioneer episode where Pacifica asks him to declare that the Pines family sucks (paraphrasing a bit here), and when Stan asks if she wants that in writing, he seems to do so, but instead he wrote "YOU STINK." He's pretty proud of this, more of the fact that he did that with his mouth (as he had been in been shackles at the time), despite the trouble that soon follows. Would you call this Chaotic Good, or Chaotic Neutral? Worth a mention either way.
Definitely feels Chaotic Neutral at least
Chaotic Neutral as it is a means to defend his own familial honor. Albeit a somewhat childish one. It'd be Chaotic Good if it was defending another persons honor or family honor.
8:26
Stan: "You had your chance at the cotillion, you!"
TV: "You had your chance at the cotillion, you!"
Stan: "That's what I'm sayin'!"
TV: "I may be a duchess, but I'm also a woman!"
Stan (crying): "Yes! You go, girl!"
This video made me realize how much Stan tried to bond with the kids, I knew it happened, but not this consistently.
Makes looking back at the second episode where all he wanted was to go fish with them all the more painful
When you casually diss marriage because your parents hated you
@@iantaakalla8180 Also he is divorced, and we have no details on that (unless it was actually the woman that left him for the hippie)
What if, instead of being Bill Cipher reincarnation, Stan is instead a alternate version of him? We already saw alternate versions of him, even a frog one in Amphibia. So it could be plausible
Or even, perhaps, the Stan twins being a *split* version of him. Stanley carrying the chaotic and deceptive elements while Stanford held the thirst for knowledge and superiority complex. Not really an even split and of course they both develop in their own ways.
@@telefeeb1 true
Bill is confirmed to have a brother. So it's possible.
i am operating under the assumption that bill is living on in stans head as quite literally a memory that refuses to stay as one. the being is and always has been able to move and act of its own accord in the realm of the mind. this really would be nothing special for him, bill is just now more limited after suffering near death and evoking a deal from a being that likely isn't partial to him even if it gave him this out
13:12 Just a small nit-pick here, it was meant to be implied that Robbie's music was not actually mind controlling Wendy with backwards talk. In fact, in the original script Robbie was supposed to be a plagiarist and all of the songs he "wrote" were actually copied from another rock band that liked to hide backwards messages in their songs just like some did in real life. However, these backwards messages were not meant to be taken seriously, as you can't actually control someone's actions using backwards messages on account that no one would be able to understand them.
This point was unable to be made clear to us though due to production constraints, and because this show constantly deals with the supernatural, the audiences' reaction was to believe that the backward messages were real and were actually controlling Wendy, though to me personally watching it the first time it felt as though the writers purposefully left this point open and vague as to let the audience decide or figure out if the messages were actually doing something.
The real intention was that Dipper just could not understand why Wendy would be going out with Robbie and thought that there NEEDED to be an explanation to it. He just so happened to find these backwards messages and assumed that they NEEDED to be the reason she was going out with him and not because she actually liked him. But again, this is just a small nit-pick that has no bearing on Grunkle Stan's involvement/alignment dings, ... unless I'm remembering the episode wrong, idk.
Stan being a reincarnation of bill also explains how he is so good with the mindscape. I always found it weird how memory stan was able to give dipper that pep talk and explain how the mindscape worked.
The advice at 21:07 is advice that I definitely needed when I was a kid I think all kid shows should teach kids that Just because you're growing up doesn't mean you need to grow up.
I think a good way to handle the sacrifice scene without making it a downer ending is if they showed him the scrapbook and he started to remember but didn't completely remember everything. It would have been a really cool open ending.
Didn't they add in like a wrap up book or something that Ford spent much of the remaining summer helping Stan remember his life?
They did their best to make it clear that it was a very slow process, but they just didn't have enough time left in the episode to do it the way they wanted, so it seems like an instant memory recovery, even though it wasn't. The journal explains the lengthy process much better than the show could've
I think Stan deserves a few more Chaotic Evil dings for his more destructive crimes -- the shady carnival, forcing Dipper and Mabel to make him counterfeit money, putting the fate of the entire world at risk to get back his brother, etc. I'd classify him as pretty solidly Chaotic Neutral.
I love Stan. He's a hilarious and fantastically well-written character. But pug-smuggling doesn't magically become okay just because an otherwise-lovable guy is doing it.
pug-smuggling is absolutely chaotic good, assuming we're talking about transporting actual pugs and not a euphemism for drugs.
@@actanonverba3041 Look at how tightly those pugs are packed in together. Presumably they'll be trapped in that barrel for the duration of the trip. That's animal abuse. Dogs are social creatures, but even they need a bit of their own space.
This type of mistreatment tends to happen when animals are transported illegally, because the type of people who engage in such trade tend to care more about their money than the well-being of their cargo.
If you've got an explanation for how animal cruelty is actually a good thing, I'd love to hear it.
@@augustrempelewert4377 pug trafficking implies there are laws restricting the movement or ownership of pugs, so because those laws are wrong, violating them is always right
@@augustrempelewert4377 also if you’re seriously gonna argue that what is at best mild animal abuse makes stan significantly more evil you’re being ridiculous.
@@actanonverba3041 Even if a law is overly restrictive, saying that violating it is always right is outrageous. For example: in Singapore, you can be fined up to $1000 for littering. Is that unreasonably harsh? Yeah. But that doesn't mean littering isn't bad.
Also, I'm not arguing that the animal abuse singlehandedly makes Stan a terrible person. I'm saying that it's one of a number of bad things Stan has done that aren't being counted against him in this video.
Alternate theory: Bill didn't reincarnate as Stan, but Bill's prayer/incantation or whatever is why Stan was able to come back. Bill was trying to invoke some power that could bring him back after he was wiped out. Not certain if it could bring Bill back, but it effectively created a way for Stan to get his memories back.
never trust a demon that is able to function in anothers mind to ever remain a memory
22:55 Immediately is a strong word. I’ve seen the immediate version of this in Centaurworld’s finale, it’s much worse. It’s like if they cut everything between Ford hugging Stan and the news report.
15:10 I would argue that exposing Giddion's crimes is lawfull *good*.
20:44 I'ld call Stanley giving dating advice to Dipper, *netral* good.
🤓Spelling
You are correct, Not What He Seems is the best episode, giving it advantage and rolling two nat 20s! And you are also correct, Stan Pines is not only the best character in GF, but I've placed him in the pantheon of mentor characters, second only to the likes of Mr. Miyagi
Eh, second to Uncle Iroh.
@@RaulDiaz-mp8ms iroh teaches you how to better yourself Stan will teach how to ruin their lives with one item
Someone must have said this, but, in the wax figure ep, it's widely believed he mourned wax stan so much because it looked so much like him, and by extention, his brother, so it might have felt like ford's disappearance all over again
Also, the room dipper and mabel discover in the sleepover episode is the same room stan slept in after ford disappeared into the portal. You can see him pick up the glasses as he's trying to keep an apathetic facade.
So yeah.
"If Ford made anything even remotely commercially viable Stan could've been the salesman."
Ow, just... ow that hurts. Stan's life really did get completely screwed by one stupid mistake exasperated by him being to stubborn to talk to his brother.
No wonder he became such a cynical, bitter man by the time episode 1 of the show begins.
Stan was/is a conman. He took whatever information he could in Mabel's attempts at jogging his memory (she was showing him multiple pages of her scrapbook) and used it to 'prove' he wasn't really gone to be accepted by the people he could tell were hoping to get 'him' back. The name Waddles alongside a picture of him would absolutely be in one of the pages she showed him due to her love for Waddles. His memories might be gone but his ability to understand/speak English means he still has some knowledge left in his head.
Yeah, that’s the thing about memory. Memories are a physical part of a person’s brain. I imagine what the memory gun does is it basically scours the brain for neurons connecting to that subject and cuts the ties to it. So anything that isn’t directly linked to “Stanley Pines” would stay mostly intact, with a few gaps here and there.
And of course his *pattern* of thinking and learning are still there. So yeah it makes sense that as a conman he learned how to pick up on details to read expectations
without watching the video, I'm gonna say Chaotic Good.
sure, he's willing to make dubious ethical compromises, but he's the furthest thing from heartless. He's just a hero who doesn't play by the rules.
not bad
The alignment videos made on series that you clearly love are usually the best alignment videos, and this trilogy was no exception. Stay mysterious, and take care of yourselves!
thank you ^^
Instead of bill reincarnating in stanley just to save himself, I like better the idea that maybe bill saved himself by saving stan's memories and now he lives as a part of stan's subconcious as a price to save both. it keeps the sense it makes poetically and tematically, and it removes tht ugly idea that stan isn't stan but it's just bill reincarnated in him. It could even be an interesting side story to have bill and stanley understand eachothers backstory.
Why would stan not be stan if he’s a reincarnation?
The 'drug trafficking' joke is from the previous episode, 19:38 lists 'Pug Trafficking' on his criminal record, so next episode he's trying to get rid of the evidence
You also tragically missed one of my favourite Gravity Falls lines in there! 'A new crime he invented called Burgle-Bezzlement'
I think an alignment video on finding Nemo or House MD would be pretty fun.
House would be amazing
seconded.
Marlin starts off lawful neutral and ends up lawful good leaning neutral good, Dory is neutral good, and Nemo starts neutral and ends up somewhere on the good scale, probably more chaotic
It's a drug reference and a pun he's a pug trafficker this was just one of those adult jokes hidden for the older crowd watching
SECOND!
Also thank you so much for making this series! Love it so much, even if most people seem to think that alignment is going out of fashion. Also Gravity Falls is my favorite show of all time, makes me so happy to see it's still relevant today. Keep making the good content! :D (but also dont forget to take care of yourself :) )
A very solid video! I only disagree with one thing really, Stanley is absolutely capable of more serious crimes. He landed himself in Colombian jail due to a heist gone wrong, was part of a bike gang and overall i feel like most of his crimes seem innocent because this is a kid's show. You don't get locked in the trunk of a car for scamming people
Also he married Marilyn during those 10 years, not the 30 when he was fixing the portal
But other than that, i completely agree with the video! Great work!
Also I guess he murdered a Llama
Here’s my view on the memory wipe. It works, it works perfectly. Stan’s memories are gone. What is it gone this is hucksterism. Stan does not recover his memories what time does his fake recovering his memories because he knows how much it means the people around him and he is very good of a salesman that they believe it. The print copy of journal three makes it clear it takes weeks and weeks to get it done.
__Stanley Pines__
Race: Human
Class: Rogue
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Background: Charlatan
_Stats_
Str: 15 (+2)
Dex: 13 (+1)
Con: 11 (+0)
Int: 7 (-2)
Wis: 9 (-1)
Cha: 17 (+3)
__Stanford Pines__
Race: Human
Class: Artificer
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Background: Haunted One
_Stats_
Str: 8 (-1)
Dex: 12 (+1)
Con: 10 (+0)
Int: 18 (+4)
Wis: 10 (+0)
Cha: 8 (-1)
Ya'know. I remember seeing people think Dipper was gonna blow up at Mabel over not pressing the Portal button.
But no, he wouldn't. Not when it is so painfully obvious that Dipper would've noticed how blatantly *wrong* *HE* *was* when the Author of the Journels popped out.
I think Bill is more so stuck in Stan's head and with what little power Bill had he gave Stan's memory back maybe cause it would be in the long run easier for some reason...? 🤷♀️🔺(Imagine it's yellow and not red)
The office scene makes some sense when you remember that Stan can do a perfect impression of his brother. Bringing both twins before telling the brother who isn't needed to stay out is probably easier.
Smuggling dogs was a reference to the previous episode when the newscaster listed his crimes. Among them was "Pug Trafficking"
Why would violently getting rid of government agents be good but nonviolently getting rid of them be neutral. I don’t know if that’s what you were implying at around 18:00 but just wanted to clarify the reasoning.
it's a joke. but i'm serious when I say never trust feds
@@TheLoadingCrew gotcha lol
@@TheLoadingCrew I haven't paid my taxes since 2015 and the feds can't do anything about it since they can't fund anything.
stealing your money is the one thing they're consistently good at
None of what you said here is particularly revelationary, but I LOVE the way you presented it. You have a genuinely talent for painting characters in the best, most authentic light and it's one of the reasons I love your channel. Y'know, beyond my being a D&D nerd who consumes WAY too much pop culture lmao
thank you ^^ I do my best sometimes
just gonna throw my two cents out there on the ending.
the memory gun was shown to not completely erase the memories of the person it was used on at least not from a single use since the society of the blind eye established it could remove the more targeted memories without completely wiping the mind entirely.at least not without constant and repeatedly use to to effectively break a mind like what happened to Old Man McGucket. alternatively the gun can wipe out kind of the surface of the mind but grunkle stan did have over 70 years of life that over time probably wired a lot of his personality into his brain so even without all the memories who he was at the end still remained. Or you could take it as because his last moments when the gun is wiping everything is him remembering his family and focusing on that, maybe he managed to keep it from being completely wiped out I mean everyone else who used the memory gun on them (aside from dipper shooting ford thinking he was bill) was more or less voluntarily trying to forget something. Its not that unthinkable that if someone was really trying to fight the process they could hold onto some parts of them.
It was awesome to see this trilogy of videos. Awesome work guys and looking forward to seeing what's to come 😄
19:58
In the listing of Stan’s crimes in the Mayor episode, it lists pug trafficking as one of them…. After that I have no idea
easy fix for the clumsy way of getting both Stans to the principal's office only for Stanley to be rejected is just have the announcement be for "Stan Pines to the Principal's office" this way neither knows who they want till they get there.
I honestly forgot how good Gravity Falls was. I need to rewatch it.
18:20 did you knock down the rating because they didnt remove the suits violently? Lmao
The only way I can accept the Bill reincarnation is if the Axolotl sends Bill back in time after his erasure to become Grunkle Stan from the beginning. The idea that he was just erased and became the new mind of Stand doesn't sit well.
Well there was one canon part of the gravity falls Book and many believe it's the scene where dipper and Mable meet the Axolotl. The Axolotl then clearly replied to dippers question on Bill that he would be sent to a different time
Sixty degrees that come in threes.
Watches from within birch trees.
Saw his own dimension burn.
Misses home and can't return.
Says he's happy. He's a liar.
Blame the arson for the fire.
If he wants to shirk the blame,
He'll have to invoke my name.
One way to absolve his crime.
A different form, a different time.
@@EarnestVictory honestly it just came to me that the absolve his crime part is pretty literally. If Stan is Bill reincarnated then that means that Bill stopped Bill to absolve his own crimes.
A little thing about the wax episode,Its important to note that he holds a funeral for Wax Stan,And actually cries during it.
It seems like its just a funny joke at first,Until you realize he is holding a funeral for someone who looks just like him...Most likely seeing Wax Stan as a representation of Stanford and griefing at the thought he might have accidentally killed his own brother.
At 8:15 you said that getting rid of government agents is usually always good, but since they did it non-violently you gave it chaotic neutral.
This implies that if they were to brutally murder the agents that it would have been chaotic good and I support you.
I’m betting he’s chaotic good, he clearly doesn’t follow the law and very greedy but cares deeply for his family
I've always put Stan under the Chaotic evil/Chaotic Neutral side of the spectrum since it is mentioned that he killed in a llama (First degree- llamacide joke in Stanchurian Candidate) as well as that time in the second episode ("legend of the grobelwonker" or something) where he gets Dipper and Mabel to make him some counterfeit money.
I love the video-record where stan curses "pg", notices he's alone and starts cursing "not so pg". It Shows he doesnt want mabel and dipper to learn curse words. Kinda funny. A nat 100 Episode!
Well, the gravity falls vido was awesome!! Nat 36 Videos!
Goodbye, see ya in the next Videos!
We'll meet again
Don't know where, don't know when
But i know we meet again
Some Sunny Day!
Why in all swedish waffles do i always forget what i wanted to comment...
Wait, i'm alone! Why THE F-
King Clawthorne is the reincarnation of Bill Cipher though.
yeah. i've not seen that yet
@@TheLoadingCrew it's from the Owl House. King is also voiced by Alex Hirsch in his Bill Cipher voice.
@@NoirRaven I don't think they were being serious, bro. (And there are a lot of in-jokes about Eda being Stan's ex-wife and the Owl House taking place in the Amphibia universe, so why not?)
Stanley Pines is the best character in GF. No doubt about it. But Bill and Ford come in close second. I love how there are so many themes and bits of lore that tie these characters together.
I know this was such a minor part of the analysis, but a funny thing is that the CD that Robbie used for Wendy? It wasn't actually controlling her. Said in a commentary for the episode, the song was just a normal, ordinary song that was plagiarized.
Course that's something the episode should have made more clear.
Our favorite Grunkle! Just make sure to check if your wallet is still there after visiting him.
I'd love alignment videos on the owl house.
I never heard of this theory before! It's weird but kinda better than "Bill is still in Stan's head Forever" that I've normally heard. I kind of like it.
18:20 wow, you really went there...
Good for you. It made me laugh.
I believe he would be chaotic neutral on the Dungeons, Dungeons, and More Dungeons alignment
FYI they sell a gravity falls journal 3 book that you can buy that tells about all of stanfords adventures in the portal in case you're interested in finding out wjay Stanford did for the 30 years he was trapped in the portal
I see Grunkle Stan having Dipper and Mabel work at the Mystery Shack to teach Them the world of adulthood You know so Dipper and Mabel can get a good job in the future when They become adults He's teaching Them to be more responsible when They get older.
20:00 Pug Trafficking. i love it
Maybe the Bill reincarnation theory could help with Stan getting his memory back... Like Bill with his powers and in Stans mind made them come back somehow for some reason...
Watched this via the patreon, 100% ready to watch it again
The pugs are a "coyote" refence. A "coyote" (not the wild canine) is someone who smuggles people across borders, mostly the Mexican/American border.
Thank you for leaving the alignment wheel on the screen for a while post analysis
just for you lol
@@TheLoadingCrew Pays off to "Andy Dufresne it" when you want something.
He doomed his world and his family, and asked to be reborn in a different place and a different time. it only made sence to make him stan pines.
I feel like you could also say that Stan and Bill are simply narrative foils (similar to Dipper and Mabel being foils of the Stans). Both made mistakes that destroyed their family and are ultimately con artists that do many underhanded things. The biggest difference is that Stan never decides to stop caring about his family while Bill decides to only look out for his own amusement. Either way, it's a cool parallel, almost like Bill is what Stan always had the potential to become, but didn't.
I'd love to see a DnD alignment for Eda Clawthorne from TOH
Ah yes, the best character.
3:54: she did that just too get under their skin. i know you were a teacher but you'd be surprised by just how many go on a power trip and will bully kids. they think they wont tell anyone because they see them get picked on by others and they didn't do anything.
The pug trafficking is continuing a joke from the previous episode when they start reading his criminal record on the news and one of them is pug trafficking
Stan is litteraly just the epidemy of nuteral/chaotic good
"To the point were it's practically canon and confirmed by Alex Hirsch himself" I'm sorry, WHAT!? I firmly believe that the theory is canon but that's the first time I hear about Alex Hirsch hinting anything about it. Was there some sort of interview where he mentioned it? Was something new revealed in the last five years since I've looked up this theory? If there is I can't find it. I would grately appreciate it if somebody enlightened me what he's talking about.
I have to argue with the halloween episode.
Because of what he did to make those kids scared and forced to run.
Very much Chaotic Evil.
10:11 "Stan reveals to Label"!
Good job on this video man
Ironic given that the Pioneer episode is out to get Stan seeing as the Creator of Gravity Falls is his voice actor.
Holy crap this video was 7 months ago
yes?
I personally prefer the Bill = Gruncle Stan conclusion since the 'erase it like it never happened' ending falls into the 'infinite timeloop', 'it was all a dream', and 'everything goes random/gets flushed down the toilet' cop-out endings. It also adds that sweet behind the scenes but in plain sight if you know where to look aspect that the show is famous for.
I personally prefer the "Bill Cipher is reborn in our reality" one but that one's also good.
Lol before it started I guessed Stan was going to be chaotic good
I'll give you a bit of a challenge: what D&D alignment is Thomas the Tank Engine? (mainly going from the CGI movies)
I've seen twins that remind me of Stan and Ford, and I've seen their minds melt because people treated them as a single entity.
In sheer. fucking. spite. of the mind boggling effort they would go to to being individualistic. Yeah, the middle school i went to was run by bastards and fiends.
that stewart called them glowies caught me off guard.
The bill reincarnation theory is a bootstrap paradox if you think about it
You call all these things chaotic but I see most of his life as lawful. Him constantly rolling around the edge of the law , parts that can only be proven in court, something he found a loophole around as well! If this man was a lawyer I'd hire him if he wouldn't pass out mid case on me!
Stan is a great guy
Okay. Just to get it off my chest cause this is the only place I can say it:
Both the stans are 58 at most, not 70. Think about it. They were in high school when Stanley got thrown out, afterwards if was 10 years until they met again and then 30 until the portal got opened back up. I'm willing to believe Stanley got held back some time. But he was in the same class as Stanford, who I sincerely doubt could get held back at all. So, at most they were like 18 when they seperated!
There have to be more than 10 years between Stan getting kicked out and him going to Gravity Falls and Stan just rounded down. There are too many lines about Stan being in his 60’s and pushing 70 for there to be any other explanation.
@@andrewrobinson8542 okay fine. Rounded down, that'd be 14 years. So, 62 or 60 at most. It's.. Better but still, a lot younger than he's made out to be
Chaotic good, he may like to scam people and is obsessed with money, but he cares about his family.
I love the outro. XD
13:17 the secret message wasn't actually controlling her, she just liked him
Your Ford impression ain’t that bad man
Wow that bill theory sounds like a stretch but it’s interesting to say the least I might need some time to digest it.
The school scene is ABSOLUTELY a public school standard lmao.
7:14 ..... Oh my gog.......
after all this years...... I finally got the joke :')
This is the first time I've heard of the theory and yeah...it kinda doesn't make sense as a full reincarnation.
I think of it more as "they both survive somewhat but are now one being that is Gruncle Stan" In the material that actually reveals the Space Axolotl, he seems to be a very neutral good type of creature. One who is inherently good but doesn't usually meddle unless evoked. Now what if the axolotl heard that, saw the sacrifice that Stan made and decided to help both? So Stan gets to live with his memories intact, while Bill continues to live inside Stan's conscious. There but not active. A way for him to not cause any more trouble because there is a check there in the form of Stan.
Now we need an alignment video on the 2 most important characters to finish this series. Waddles, and Gomber
i'm a fool for forgetting them
@@TheLoadingCrew Just gonna start by saying that Gomber feels like a chaotic good character to me. Like when he took the license plate of the boy band director, or took care of the USB stick that Stanford got from the agents
chaotic good there saved you the trouble
Never heard the reincarnated Bill idear befor, but I kind of like ike, if nothing else, I means that Stans sacrefise is not undone.