it's one of the most unpredictable maps for win rate. Notoriously top teams seem to cap out at around 60% win rate on D2, even when it's a map they play a lot. At the pro level it's fucked, mirage has a similar issue but it's no where near D2
To be fair the reason why the winrate is 50 50 its because both sides rely on luck more than any other map. For example when rushing long through doors you always have to prefire or when entering b site its always uncertain how its gonna play out. There are barely any angles on the whole map making it very bland and simplistic unsuitable for competitive play.
After playing CS for over seven years now, I've concluded that the CS:GO community isn't happy with basically anything. They complain about an issue relentlessly and when it's finally changed, they complain about the change. This goes back and forth over the course of years. Just being real here. After 22 years of gaming, I've realized that you just have to learn to love a game for what it is. Not things shouldn't be changed but be careful for what you ask for.
This. CS is proof that a game can be too perfect. When you love something in the game, you truly love it. If you don't, tough shit. One thing changes, everything is ruined. Leave it as is, the game is stale. One of the reasons why so many converted to Valorant is because it gives the feel of CS with new content and new playstyles, which is something CS has been struggling with for years. Best thing Valve can do is make more maps to replace the old ones, so the legacy maps can remain to be legacy maps while new content can still pump in.
The problem is not that valve changes something, the problem is they fuck it up. It's like asking for a christmas present and your parents shit under the tree. This game is so popular and probably makes so much money with the prime status, operations, the cases and the skin market fees, 99.999% of games can just dream about such a success. But still Valve doesn't care. They don't fix the most basic problems which have been pointed out in a million YT Videos. The only thing they care about is money, so the only certain content are skin cases and every 1.5 - 2 years a copy paste operation with a new look comes out for an absurd price, where you just grind the same missions then the operation before, no creativity. And now they did a gameplay change by adding this cube to suicide (probably 3 hours of work) without thinking a minute about what this changes. If you see what other game studios do in terms of updates it's just a shame what valve does to csgo and it makes me angry, because it's my favorite game and it could be so much better, if valve would give a single fuck about it. Instead it seems like they only have one half time dev assigned to this game.
@@benjaminglazer7217 In addition to fixing MM and 128 tick I would add a proper anti cheat system and getting rid of the random spawn system (make it more like valorant) and randomization in where the bullets land. That's just completly unnecessary and stupid in such a skillbased game. Also there are tons of minor bugs which hang around for a long time. But it's not only about what has to be fixed, but also what can be improved and added. The Operations for example are just cheap money grabbing. Imho it's just ridiculous how big this game is and how money it brings Valve and how little they are willing to invest in this game if it doesn't bring them money instantly (Cases/Skins, Stickers etc.).
first person that I see that mentions the 1.6 version, It's honestly kinda disappointing that people who complain don't even know the og version, not saying all tho
I think they just needed to make one of the mid doors longer so it blocked vision to ct mid from t spawn if they really wanted to let ct cross safely in b , that way you can still watch lower mid as a t. Right now i'm playing awp , watch lower mid for the guys in tunnel and all of a sudden i get some very nice words when people just press ctrl and get in lower tuns with 0 problems. Or better yet , one pushes lower and one top so then they have all the info in the world lol.
@@woodzxd what if the new obstruction was instead bullet proof glass? Ts could still see the CT movement but not be able to pick them off with auto sniper or negev. probably doesn't fit with the aesthetics of the map though.
At this point I think they need to change the wall into a bulletproof glass, which is a win-win situation for both sides. T sides would still have early info about lower mid and B cross, and CT could cross safely. And on top of that, the old smoke middle to deny info from CT would still be a viable if they want to step it up
actually i think the change for the better could be as simple as making the door closed but wall-bangable on the top and open on the bottom to pass through it so that the spawn awpers on T side can pop enemies trying to push mid and id they are lucky enough could land a wallbang through the wood of enemies crossing toward b side
But then that affects watching cat from mid CT. Simpler change would be to move the mid CT truck forward so that you can pass behind it. I looked at it and it could even enable making the scaffolding area playable, with a few more changes, but that's a separate topic.
Getting into sites is hard enough but they amped it up by getting cts setup for a b crossfire which is notorious for really hard to break wirh an uncoordinated team(i.e pub games). That one or two kill or just info about how many crossed is crucial for Ts success in executing a site.
There seems to be a zero-sum situation with Dust 2's layout: either the CTs have to waste a utility to safely cross to B, or the Ts will be deprived of information on CTs defending B. Valve needs to recognize this and come up with a compromise that will satisfy both sides' needs.
late comment but I wonder if there's a way to arrange the cover such that Ts can watch the entrance to lower from their spawn but can't see further right towards the cross
How about putting a non-wallbang-able metal plate at the upper part of the middle doors to give the CT a safer path to cross mid, but still gives the ability for T to spot crossing CT for tactical reasons. The lower part is still wallbang-able so it basically changing only the very early part of the game
What if they took the mid doors and leaned the one pointed into mid against the other door as if it was blow off the hinges. Ideally this would cut off view of the back portion of where CTs cross so that there is a safe to cross section. You could also make wall bangs not work through it but that might be a mistake. I suppose you could also make a cut out in the wall that they currently have added in so that if crouching you can see the entrance to tunnels from T-spawn but not into CT-cross.
My experience: The problem is now CT awper only need to watch one elevation through mid doors but T awpers have to watch many elevations, and if T awper loses the first duel or even miss the first shot, CT can easily slip through mid door to gain complete hold on lower tunnels and catwalk, basically completely controls B and T side mid if it wasn't already hard enough to push for T. It used to be a huge risk for CTs to push through mid doors now it's the risk is so much reduced, T side has very little reason to ever risk going to B.
Yes we all want to hit that shot through mid doors as a T awp player. It's what made dust 2 really different to other maps... Take that wall down and put dust 2 out of the comp pool.
Even though I don't play CSGO and don't care at all about its Pro-Scene, I still find these videos very entertaining. Never change, Dimitri. Never chnage.
Open up the doors in pit and make it a secondary entrance from T to Long to give Ts more legroom and options when invading A Extend the width of the doors entering upper tunnels from backyard towards the stairwell to make defending stairwell as CT less reliable without utility This is how I, a silver would fix Dust2 without reverting the sightline blocker in mid
Let's be honest. The old dust 2 of 2016 was the best. The updated one didn't have the same feel and now it's even worse. Valve needs to stop messing with D2 all time. There are other maps too. Cache and Cobblestone are completely forgotten.
@@miguelpereira9859 and new dust 2 barely looks anything like dust2. It's more like buildings and all. And what weird corners? The new one has more corners and angles to clear. The best update to ever happen was Inferno update. The rest map updates did nothing but ruin the perfectly good maps.
That needed to be changed the Ts could freely move with almost no worry while ct have to waste utility or try and Jump past the door just to get to site.
Tossing my hat into the ring, I personally feel that the overhang that obscures mid is a sudden change that wasn't really needed. Dust2 was pretty much as perfect as it was going to get. In the old CS, the overhang was present but left a tiny little gap for a T to just hold with an awp and deliver shots to crossing CTs or a very confident CT awper who also knew the exact spot that the T had to stay in to take the shot. Peeking into it was a pain since the T awper will always have the advantage of holding it, it just matters of how high or how low he needs to adjust. Likewise for the CT, he knows exactly the spot the T will be in as its a really small gap and lining it up isn't too hard. Either attempt the wallbang or brave a clear shot. But blocking it off is just giving the CTs free reign over middle and I've seen countless times how it just sometimes devolves to a full on brawl on top mid and even thinking about running lower by yourself is a huge gamble that isn't worth the risk. I'd say tweak the wall to be more akin to 1.6 than it is to Source and older variants of CSGO and go from there.
how is a map forcing ct's to waste a smoke every round "as close to perfect as it can get"? I don't think the change was good, and since I myself am an awper I really enjoyed being accused of hacking everytime I hsed someone through doors (when they didn't threw smoke, that is), but I can see why a change was needed. I can agree however that the change might be worse than leaving the map as is.
i always thought 3kliksphilip had a great solution to this. behind where the ct’s run to get to site in mid to b, make a little tunnel with a bulletproof glass window. that way, ct’s can get to b without randomly dying because “unlucky i guess,” but t’s still retain all the other advantages of seeing how many cross and having early mid control that can prevent ct’s from wreaking havoc. you remove the cheese and keep the meaningful balance
It's been two years. Okay, so dd2 had two major layout overhauls since 1.3. The mid was opened in 2004, and then closed 18 years later. So, why blocking it off completley, if you can add a tiny gap, like in the original version? it would solve the issue with not being able to cross mid safely, while still keeping a sniper spot in place. Now people have to jump in to the suicide(sleeve) to get a good mid kill, but the timings are now screwed in the favour of the CTs. Speaking of which, tunnel was bangable in 1.3-1.6. Reason for it being is how the engine interpolates thickness. Sometimes, it will work in certain angles, because of how the engine treats wall penetration. That's why if you're playing HLDM on crossfire, you could get a gauss gun and wallbang players. Or, you could use lamps to kill players, because those lamps were at the certain angle and the projectile can adjust to that. With CSS onwards, you can't bang the B car anymore. It was fun when you banged some kid that was sitting near the B car.
this was something that was supposed to be done by valve 6 years ago when everyone cared, now that everyone's used to it no one wants tspawn to mid blocked....
There was an elegant solution, just close the door a little bit more. 3kp already proved that it is almost humanly impossible to react to crossing mid doors. Alternatively, just make the door not wall-bangable that way mid AWPers have to aim precisely down the middle and can't spam Scar to see if they luck out with headshots on two players.
I freaking hate how they just decided to remove dust 2. It has to be one of my favorite maps and they decided it would be a good idea to just get rid of it. I started pc gaming literally in November, and didn’t even play dust 2 until well after the change, and it still has been one of my favorite maps out of all of the games I’ve ever played. It is really sad how they just replaced it without a second thought, although I really hope valve decides to listen to the community and bring dust back.
No, they just made it how it used to be. Back in the old days of dust 2, T’s always had to drop suicide. I hated the change into csgo with full access to mid.
I mean, they cried when getting banged through double doors when crossing. Now they are crying that it's too CT sided with free mid control. There's no winning for Valve..!
A change to protect CTS from spam through doors but also still allowing them to be punished for pushing mid early would be better than what's in place now, I guess.
I think Valve could raise the hight of the wall that is blocking vision. When the wall is high enough, T’s can still somwhat battle mid and hold pushes to lower. I think wall is a good idea and a step in the right direction. It’s kinda unfair that T’s get control of mid the second the round starts.
Bro idk how dust 2 mid peek was any different than mirage mid peek. The only diff is usually it’s the silvers tht re ct complaining about Ts being too over buffed and now we get shit like broken m4a1s with a lower price tag than the weaker m4a4. The silvers and their comments are what made valve do most of these changes because as a LE player I can straight up say no higher skilled player gave two fks about the mid cross cuz you could just jump it or juke it. Now however valve just handed LT control to Cts for free which makes b rushes almost impossible
CS:GO devs just brought back the original structure on T side of Dust 2 if you don't know what I'm saying check it up on CS 1.3 so what I'm saying is it's not new it's just the old structure that they removed in CS:S
A quick fix if they really wanted to keep that hunk of block, is flip the doors back in B doors. That way CTs wouldn't just casually snipe someone doing rush B😅
i like the fact that people forgot the og dust 2 from cs 1.6, it had the exact same block and made for a good play time, saying dust2 lost its "originality" is just being dumb when they made it similar to its grandad from the og cs
Look I am not saying you are wrong. But from a competitive stand point, the wall did improve the map. Yes Ts can still bang mid by jumping down but these changes definitely restricted those moves. I agree dust might need some further Tweeks but I still believe the map is payable especially on a competitive ground.
Literally just had to make the double doors closer together and have the gap be smaller… problem solved. It becomes easier for CT side to leave spawn which was the “hardest” part of the map.
how do you determine whether it ruined the game? - Complaints or data? If the CT and T win is about 50/50, it's fine I'd say. Wonder how it's changed after this adjustment.
fl0m is saying "give CTs more space but nothing changed tactically". Jeez, that's what they were crying for wasn't it. To give CTs space to move around a little more freely. Now when they can he is crying along with everyone else.
Ez Auto sniper wall penetration reduced(because of the next change) That over hang blocking t’s wall bangable so various line ups can be made and be like a “wow i can’t believe I hit that” Moment but with the auto sniper bullet penetration lowered it can’t penetrate the over hang
So then what's the solution? I agree that letting the cts have insane mid and lower control is a problem but I would say that having to burn a smoke just to cross mid doors(and sometimes still getting spammed anyway) is just as bad of a problem. Maybe the solution is to tilt the doors and make them less wallbangable?
As a B site CT player on dust, this change was super necessary. It really hasn’t made that much of a difference other than lessen the chance of getting drilled immediately through doors. It still happens, they just need a good spawn for it.
They ruined Cobblestone, that was an alternate fun map. Now it's Mirage, Inferno or Overpass in MM and some people play Nuke that's it. Rest of the map pool is played by a handful of people.
I think a change would be getting rid of that cubby in mid doors ct aide (idk what its called i dont play enough csgo) and moving the doors a bit more to the to the ct side a bit so it has space to be close enough to have no line of sight without wallbanging the doors
Yes, it was the most balanced map before, the win rate was T 50.6-49.4 CT
Dust 2 has never been balanced😂
@@martinberg3970 but the stats say they are…
@@martinberg3970 it was the most balanced map, look it up
it's one of the most unpredictable maps for win rate. Notoriously top teams seem to cap out at around 60% win rate on D2, even when it's a map they play a lot. At the pro level it's fucked, mirage has a similar issue but it's no where near D2
To be fair the reason why the winrate is 50 50 its because both sides rely on luck more than any other map. For example when rushing long through doors you always have to prefire or when entering b site its always uncertain how its gonna play out. There are barely any angles on the whole map making it very bland and simplistic unsuitable for competitive play.
After playing CS for over seven years now, I've concluded that the CS:GO community isn't happy with basically anything. They complain about an issue relentlessly and when it's finally changed, they complain about the change. This goes back and forth over the course of years. Just being real here. After 22 years of gaming, I've realized that you just have to learn to love a game for what it is. Not things shouldn't be changed but be careful for what you ask for.
That's EVERY community nowdays man. Gen Z has ruined the entire world imo. LOL
OMEGALUL EVRERYONE MALDING
cs players are elitis AF any changes or anything that they don't like they will complain.
@@Eazy_Bruh ok boomer.
This. CS is proof that a game can be too perfect. When you love something in the game, you truly love it. If you don't, tough shit. One thing changes, everything is ruined. Leave it as is, the game is stale. One of the reasons why so many converted to Valorant is because it gives the feel of CS with new content and new playstyles, which is something CS has been struggling with for years. Best thing Valve can do is make more maps to replace the old ones, so the legacy maps can remain to be legacy maps while new content can still pump in.
@@Eazy_Bruh people complaining about a video = world ruined, ok bud
Cs fans: more content! Spice up the maps!
Valve: let’s change a map!
Cs fans: boo! Dust 2 can’t be changed!
They said more content not change history
The problem is not that valve changes something, the problem is they fuck it up.
It's like asking for a christmas present and your parents shit under the tree.
This game is so popular and probably makes so much money with the prime status, operations, the cases and the skin market fees, 99.999% of games can just dream about such a success. But still Valve doesn't care. They don't fix the most basic problems which have been pointed out in a million YT Videos. The only thing they care about is money, so the only certain content are skin cases and every 1.5 - 2 years a copy paste operation with a new look comes out for an absurd price, where you just grind the same missions then the operation before, no creativity. And now they did a gameplay change by adding this cube to suicide (probably 3 hours of work) without thinking a minute about what this changes.
If you see what other game studios do in terms of updates it's just a shame what valve does to csgo and it makes me angry, because it's my favorite game and it could be so much better, if valve would give a single fuck about it. Instead it seems like they only have one half time dev assigned to this game.
@@tngdwn8350 it’s my favorite game too but besides fixing ranked and 128 tick idk what else they need to fix
@@benjaminglazer7217 In addition to fixing MM and 128 tick I would add a proper anti cheat system and getting rid of the random spawn system (make it more like valorant) and randomization in where the bullets land. That's just completly unnecessary and stupid in such a skillbased game. Also there are tons of minor bugs which hang around for a long time.
But it's not only about what has to be fixed, but also what can be improved and added. The Operations for example are just cheap money grabbing. Imho it's just ridiculous how big this game is and how money it brings Valve and how little they are willing to invest in this game if it doesn't bring them money instantly (Cases/Skins, Stickers etc.).
@@opsoo2229 bro everyone said they wanted a change to dust 2
The fact that the current d2 is almost identical to the 1.6 version is what makes me happy, I think its a good change
L take
@@bruman182 28:1 lol
In 1.6 you only had a tiny gap. It was common having to clear out lower from b tunnel with caution.
first person that I see that mentions the 1.6 version, It's honestly kinda disappointing that people who complain don't even know the og version, not saying all tho
Valve after the update:-
"Perfectly balanced.... As it should be!"
its more ct sided than nuke now
@@CEO-pg3du still my random ct mates manage to lose every round
The community: Become Avengers
@@CEO-pg3du now the map is trash dude before was easy to up rank but now is just trash with small thing they just destroy dust2 for one sec amazing
I think they just needed to make one of the mid doors longer so it blocked vision to ct mid from t spawn if they really wanted to let ct cross safely in b , that way you can still watch lower mid as a t.
Right now i'm playing awp , watch lower mid for the guys in tunnel and all of a sudden i get some very nice words when people just press ctrl and get in lower tuns with 0 problems. Or better yet , one pushes lower and one top so then they have all the info in the world lol.
Dude they did this cuz of auto sniper or negev spam ya know they can still spam if they made longer doors
@@woodzxd what if the new obstruction was instead bullet proof glass? Ts could still see the CT movement but not be able to pick them off with auto sniper or negev. probably doesn't fit with the aesthetics of the map though.
@@moneyt611 wtf
not great, Ts would be able to take full mid control for free literally every single round
Or make the doors of metal so the CTS take less damage
"WarOwl's Nth law of gaming: If you can make custom maps, there is a Dust 2."
I see what you did there, Dimitri.
At this point I think they need to change the wall into a bulletproof glass, which is a win-win situation for both sides. T sides would still have early info about lower mid and B cross, and CT could cross safely. And on top of that, the old smoke middle to deny info from CT would still be a viable if they want to step it up
actually i think the change for the better could be as simple as making the door closed but wall-bangable on the top and open on the bottom to pass through it so that the spawn awpers on T side can pop enemies trying to push mid and id they are lucky enough could land a wallbang through the wood of enemies crossing toward b side
But then that affects watching cat from mid CT. Simpler change would be to move the mid CT truck forward so that you can pass behind it. I looked at it and it could even enable making the scaffolding area playable, with a few more changes, but that's a separate topic.
Getting into sites is hard enough but they amped it up by getting cts setup for a b crossfire which is notorious for really hard to break wirh an uncoordinated team(i.e pub games). That one or two kill or just info about how many crossed is crucial for Ts success in executing a site.
There seems to be a zero-sum situation with Dust 2's layout: either the CTs have to waste a utility to safely cross to B, or the Ts will be deprived of information on CTs defending B.
Valve needs to recognize this and come up with a compromise that will satisfy both sides' needs.
Bullet proof glass. Gives ts info but they can't kill CTS. Is that what your asking for?
late comment but I wonder if there's a way to arrange the cover such that Ts can watch the entrance to lower from their spawn but can't see further right towards the cross
How about putting a non-wallbang-able metal plate at the upper part of the middle doors to give the CT a safer path to cross mid, but still gives the ability for T to spot crossing CT for tactical reasons. The lower part is still wallbang-able so it basically changing only the very early part of the game
too advanced for valve
What if they took the mid doors and leaned the one pointed into mid against the other door as if it was blow off the hinges. Ideally this would cut off view of the back portion of where CTs cross so that there is a safe to cross section.
You could also make wall bangs not work through it but that might be a mistake.
I suppose you could also make a cut out in the wall that they currently have added in so that if crouching you can see the entrance to tunnels from T-spawn but not into CT-cross.
Apparently you didn’t see when Dupree got killed twice removing silencer recently.
Ooof
My experience: The problem is now CT awper only need to watch one elevation through mid doors but T awpers have to watch many elevations, and if T awper loses the first duel or even miss the first shot, CT can easily slip through mid door to gain complete hold on lower tunnels and catwalk, basically completely controls B and T side mid if it wasn't already hard enough to push for T. It used to be a huge risk for CTs to push through mid doors now it's the risk is so much reduced, T side has very little reason to ever risk going to B.
Yes we all want to hit that shot through mid doors as a T awp player. It's what made dust 2 really different to other maps... Take that wall down and put dust 2 out of the comp pool.
Seriously. I stopped playing CS2 and having any interest altogether anymore since they made the lousy change.
When you got “all worked up” I never felt so relatable
Petition to add a separate bind for removing/adding silencer
Even though I don't play CSGO and don't care at all about its Pro-Scene, I still find these videos very entertaining. Never change, Dimitri. Never chnage.
That's how it always was, and nobody complained in the old days.
7:44 dustbowl 💀
It's fine. Everyone is such a gigantic baby, its insane.
The kennyS shot..., he was going to shoot the 1st guy, and he missed, but the miss miraculously hitted the second one XD
Cant believe Valve had the stones to touch Johnston's masterpiece. This map should be held to a much higher standard
Open up the doors in pit and make it a secondary entrance from T to Long to give Ts more legroom and options when invading A
Extend the width of the doors entering upper tunnels from backyard towards the stairwell to make defending stairwell as CT less reliable without utility
This is how I, a silver would fix Dust2 without reverting the sightline blocker in mid
I'm surprised Nuke is second on the list.. and it's arguably one of the hardest maps to play based on the countless angles you need to clear..
Nuke is beautiful, and I'm happy it's being played more
Thats how u know u fucked up. I was suprised when I saw nuke was that popular as well
Nuke is the best map in the game.
*Buys M4A1-S, Removes Silencer*
Haven't played csgo since 2019 and when I played dust 2 I thought I was crazy with the B doors being flipped
Let's be honest. The old dust 2 of 2016 was the best. The updated one didn't have the same feel and now it's even worse. Valve needs to stop messing with D2 all time. There are other maps too. Cache and Cobblestone are completely forgotten.
it looked like shit compared to train/nuke
Old Dust looked ass you are just blinded by nostalgia
And had awkward corners
@@miguelpereira9859 and new dust 2 barely looks anything like dust2. It's more like buildings and all. And what weird corners? The new one has more corners and angles to clear. The best update to ever happen was Inferno update. The rest map updates did nothing but ruin the perfectly good maps.
@@lighty6401 Round corners
I love the new dust II. I believe it's way better than the old one
Did TheScore ruin eSports editorials?
Ah, yes. WarOwl's third law of Counter Strike
"If a game supports custom maps, there is a Dust 2."
Absolutely. 2 3 CT Mid push is brutal for Ts. and CT Awper has advantage as you have little to no room to watch Mid when you jump off the ramp.
That needed to be changed the Ts could freely move with almost no worry while ct have to waste utility or try and Jump past the door just to get to site.
Maybe. The middle cross was sometimes annoying af for CTs but I wouldn't say to go as far as just blocking it off completely..
Tossing my hat into the ring, I personally feel that the overhang that obscures mid is a sudden change that wasn't really needed. Dust2 was pretty much as perfect as it was going to get. In the old CS, the overhang was present but left a tiny little gap for a T to just hold with an awp and deliver shots to crossing CTs or a very confident CT awper who also knew the exact spot that the T had to stay in to take the shot. Peeking into it was a pain since the T awper will always have the advantage of holding it, it just matters of how high or how low he needs to adjust. Likewise for the CT, he knows exactly the spot the T will be in as its a really small gap and lining it up isn't too hard. Either attempt the wallbang or brave a clear shot.
But blocking it off is just giving the CTs free reign over middle and I've seen countless times how it just sometimes devolves to a full on brawl on top mid and even thinking about running lower by yourself is a huge gamble that isn't worth the risk. I'd say tweak the wall to be more akin to 1.6 than it is to Source and older variants of CSGO and go from there.
how is a map forcing ct's to waste a smoke every round "as close to perfect as it can get"? I don't think the change was good, and since I myself am an awper I really enjoyed being accused of hacking everytime I hsed someone through doors (when they didn't threw smoke, that is), but I can see why a change was needed. I can agree however that the change might be worse than leaving the map as is.
@@petrospatrianakos9166 because t's have hardships on other parts of the map quit regurgitating what the video states and think for yourself
i always thought 3kliksphilip had a great solution to this. behind where the ct’s run to get to site in mid to b, make a little tunnel with a bulletproof glass window. that way, ct’s can get to b without randomly dying because “unlucky i guess,” but t’s still retain all the other advantages of seeing how many cross and having early mid control that can prevent ct’s from wreaking havoc. you remove the cheese and keep the meaningful balance
they should change the wall thing to back how it was like in 1.6 where the gap is smaller and harder to aim through
It's been two years.
Okay, so dd2 had two major layout overhauls since 1.3.
The mid was opened in 2004, and then closed 18 years later.
So, why blocking it off completley, if you can add a tiny gap, like in the original version?
it would solve the issue with not being able to cross mid safely, while still keeping a sniper spot in place. Now people have to jump in to the suicide(sleeve) to get a good mid kill, but the timings are now screwed in the favour of the CTs.
Speaking of which, tunnel was bangable in 1.3-1.6.
Reason for it being is how the engine interpolates thickness.
Sometimes, it will work in certain angles, because of how the engine treats wall penetration.
That's why if you're playing HLDM on crossfire, you could get a gauss gun and wallbang players. Or, you could use lamps to kill players, because those lamps were at the certain angle and the projectile can adjust to that.
With CSS onwards, you can't bang the B car anymore. It was fun when you banged some kid that was sitting near the B car.
this was something that was supposed to be done by valve 6 years ago when everyone cared, now that everyone's used to it no one wants tspawn to mid blocked....
Dust 2 had that overhang before too, it's just getting used to a change.
There was an elegant solution, just close the door a little bit more. 3kp already proved that it is almost humanly impossible to react to crossing mid doors. Alternatively, just make the door not wall-bangable that way mid AWPers have to aim precisely down the middle and can't spam Scar to see if they luck out with headshots on two players.
In a nutshell: Everyone ruined Dust2, and not just Valve.
After 18 years of the same old dust I really don't mind that they're messing with it
I just want cpl mill or fire back in the rotation
I freaking hate how they just decided to remove dust 2. It has to be one of my favorite maps and they decided it would be a good idea to just get rid of it. I started pc gaming literally in November, and didn’t even play dust 2 until well after the change, and it still has been one of my favorite maps out of all of the games I’ve ever played. It is really sad how they just replaced it without a second thought, although I really hope valve decides to listen to the community and bring dust back.
No, they just made it how it used to be.
Back in the old days of dust 2, T’s always had to drop suicide. I hated the change into csgo with full access to mid.
lol the kyojin clip of the silencer is similar to dupreeh's struggles with it too XD
I mean, they cried when getting banged through double doors when crossing. Now they are crying that it's too CT sided with free mid control. There's no winning for Valve..!
8:27 to say that the change was bad,
We all saw FLOM vibin
A change to protect CTS from spam through doors but also still allowing them to be punished for pushing mid early would be better than what's in place now, I guess.
What if you block off/enlarge the ct doors. It’d allow more movement to b from ct. but it’ll stop the lower tun mandatory mag-7.
I used to like playing CT and T almost equally before the rework. Now, I just wanna play CT and nothing else on it.
I think Valve could raise the hight of the wall that is blocking vision. When the wall is high enough, T’s can still somwhat battle mid and hold pushes to lower. I think wall is a good idea and a step in the right direction. It’s kinda unfair that T’s get control of mid the second the round starts.
Bro idk how dust 2 mid peek was any different than mirage mid peek. The only diff is usually it’s the silvers tht re ct complaining about Ts being too over buffed and now we get shit like broken m4a1s with a lower price tag than the weaker m4a4. The silvers and their comments are what made valve do most of these changes because as a LE player I can straight up say no higher skilled player gave two fks about the mid cross cuz you could just jump it or juke it. Now however valve just handed LT control to Cts for free which makes b rushes almost impossible
@@snaplaw1654 2 options, cope or get gud
Blocking kid was 100% the right choice. You shouldn’t be able to snipe someone immediately after the buy period is over
Office is the new dust 2
watching these vids about dust2 is a great way to feel old as my fondest memories from CS is from dust"1".
i was living under a rock and didn't knew this. I'm not eveng lying.
CS:GO devs just brought back the original structure on T side of Dust 2 if you don't know what I'm saying check it up on CS 1.3 so what I'm saying is it's not new it's just the old structure that they removed in CS:S
The last update of blocking T’s vision was unnecessary.
A quick fix if they really wanted to keep that hunk of block, is flip the doors back in B doors. That way CTs wouldn't just casually snipe someone doing rush B😅
CS change one thing in a map : everyone loses their mind
Valorant every update : ok so what line up don't work anymore
People learning that dust 2 is gimmick map and is incredibly imperfect amazes me.
DID THEY FORGET ABOUT CT SMOKING MID DOORS.
Should've been more careful with what we wished for.
Inferno = Dust 3
Mirage = Dust 3
We need a cleaner to get rid of all this dust
when they got rid of the quad awp spray on the wall is when they ruined it
As a MG-LE player (ranking up and deranking lol), it's not bad and is much better now.
Didn't the original CS 1.6 Dust2 had this wall anyway?
i like the fact that people forgot the og dust 2 from cs 1.6, it had the exact same block and made for a good play time, saying dust2 lost its "originality" is just being dumb when they made it similar to its grandad from the og cs
Fl0m does look like a high school janitor though. Also those are some lit dance moves at 0:43 . Can we get fl0mPls in chat
the change should be simple it should no longer doors at mid can be wall bang so the shoots should be precise at mid and no advance scopes at doors
7:43 dustbowl... as a tf2 player, YES
Look I am not saying you are wrong. But from a competitive stand point, the wall did improve the map. Yes Ts can still bang mid by jumping down but these changes definitely restricted those moves. I agree dust might need some further Tweeks but I still believe the map is payable especially on a competitive ground.
I miss the old map for sure
A lot of games have that map that appears in every other game. 2fort is a personal favorite
I just wanna share, 90% of my friends that played CS before still reads dust 2 as "de_dust 2"
Waiting for Demitri videos be like
Literally just had to make the double doors closer together and have the gap be smaller… problem solved. It becomes easier for CT side to leave spawn which was the “hardest” part of the map.
how do you determine whether it ruined the game? - Complaints or data? If the CT and T win is about 50/50, it's fine I'd say. Wonder how it's changed after this adjustment.
"If a game supports custom games, there is a DUST 2!"
WarOwl.
.... And I still have no closure!
WarOwl's 3rd Law of Counter Strike.
Edit: I believe he said custom maps.
fl0m is saying "give CTs more space but nothing changed tactically". Jeez, that's what they were crying for wasn't it. To give CTs space to move around a little more freely. Now when they can he is crying along with everyone else.
oh i thought u guys already made a video about how its a long needed change
ITS so much better now.
Ez
Auto sniper wall penetration reduced(because of the next change)
That over hang blocking t’s wall bangable so various line ups can be made and be like a “wow i can’t believe I hit that”
Moment but with the auto sniper bullet penetration lowered it can’t penetrate the over hang
everything they touch they somehow find a way to ruin it
I really like this change
So then what's the solution? I agree that letting the cts have insane mid and lower control is a problem but I would say that having to burn a smoke just to cross mid doors(and sometimes still getting spammed anyway) is just as bad of a problem. Maybe the solution is to tilt the doors and make them less wallbangable?
As a B site CT player on dust, this change was super necessary. It really hasn’t made that much of a difference other than lessen the chance of getting drilled immediately through doors. It still happens, they just need a good spawn for it.
Short answer- Yes
Long answer- Most Definitely
Easy solution: revert the changes and install bulletproof glass
Just make the blocker bulletproof glass, ez
At least we didn't get spinned from spawn to mid doors...the cheaters have to walk xDD
maybe make the overhang be shorter so that you can watch mid and also make the overhang be wallbangable?
just make the doors not wallbang-able and remove the overhang
They ruined Cobblestone, that was an alternate fun map. Now it's Mirage, Inferno or Overpass in MM and some people play Nuke that's it. Rest of the map pool is played by a handful of people.
dang valve gotta do that with my favorite map
ye, i am 437 elo and really hard to cross mid, if we only had some sort of nade that erected a wall which can be shot but not seen thru
I think a change would be getting rid of that cubby in mid doors ct aide (idk what its called i dont play enough csgo) and moving the doors a bit more to the to the ct side a bit so it has space to be close enough to have no line of sight without wallbanging the doors
I mean the mid door like it’s still not safe. They can still easily shoot you