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Age of Wonders 4 Tier List - Empire Development Tree [Part 2]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ส.ค. 2024
- Age of Wonders 4 Empire Development Tree Part 1: • Age of Wonders 4 Tier ... | Welcome back to Age of Wonders 4 Tier Lists - in this video I'm completing the Development Tree tier list, closely associated with the affinities and the prime way to spend your imperium beyond cities, the development tree is key to any game! In this video I'll pick up where we left off with Astral, before moving to complete Order, Materium and Shadow and the two I overlooked! Thanks for watching this AoW4 tier list! #ageofwonder4 #strategy #gaming
Contents:
0:00 - Age of Wonders 4 Empire Development Tree Tier List Part 1 Recap
0:41 - Astral Branch
10:50 - Materium Branch
33:17 - Order Branch
50:53 - Shadow Branch
1:10:25 - The Extra Two
1:13:39 - Wrap Up
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For Military Engineering, the main factor which I don't really think was accounted for was that, when it comes with walls, the Outpost cannot be immediately taken and must be sieged
This, and when you build a teleporter inside them you should have at least one or two stacks in home territory with teleporters. This helps you defend your forward outposts close to enemy territory to TP your armies to.
The +5 gold per building from Perfectionist artisans also works on outposts and their buildings, silly but fun! Adding teleporters is a great idea. ☺️
For Materium, Indomitable Defenders is any combat, not when under siege. So if you are in enemy territory and pushing to their city, and they attack you, you are the defender and get +20 morale. The city bonus is separate.
He did mention that, any combat as the defender
It's very nice when defending a win condition at the end of the game when the enemies are all throwing themselves at you. That and the healing is a huge bonus when you aren't moving much, and if you pop the Dreadnaught one when kicking it off you can really dig in.
@@josiekitter8595 Maybe, but every time he said it, it was implied that it was something to take when you're behind, which makes no sense in the context of it working in every defensive fight, even when pushing into enemy territory. Makes me think he believes it's only for city defense.
@@josiekitter8595 at 27:09 he literally says "can only be applied while you are under siege"
I also disagree with placement of this perk. Morale bonus in any defending battle is huge. I am having them all the time when I invading. Not having economic penalties in a sieged city means that you can leave your towns empty, knowing that you can quickly rase an 1-2 stack army when this city goes under siege. And that often means you can leave your cities for a while and finish one enemy before turning in other direction and finishing another - this is a very strong pick.
Breastplate of the Champion D-tier? It's easily the best chestplate for Melee heroes due to the big power spike it gives. I got the chestplate elsewhere, and I certaintly did not regret it. Wished I could get a second one via the Tree but I wasn't using Materium that game. It's not S, but D is 100% FAR too harsh.
martial ancestry (the upkeep reduction per rank at the end of materium) saves A LOT more thant 100 gold in the average game. It reduces gold upkeep and mana upkeep and I think even enchantment upkeep. Tooltip supports this but I dont have a save at a point where I can triple check. In my last game the savings would be closer to 300 mana and gold every turn
Fun fact, the upkeep reduction works together with the Runesmiths enchantment upkeep reduction of 30% (which equals -1 mana per unit) which is calculated and rounded per unit.
After this upkeep reduction is applied to gold and mana upkeep including enchantment upkeep. All reductions together are capped at -50% reduction. But 2,3,4,5 mana is first reduced to 1,2,3,4 and then potentially halved again.
Prolific Swarmers is a great pick (-20% non magic origin but any tier), chaos has the early development pick (-20% upkeep for tier 1) and faithful gives another -10%.
(collected those for an idea for a (mostly) tier 1 archer build, really powerful)
I will point out that a bunch of materium tome province improvements have stacking bonus effects if they are adjacent to the same type
Brestplate of the champions is hands down the best armour for melle dps lords. It's gets crazy with keen and some materium only upgrades.
He was right about that decision affecting some of us. It is hands-down one of the most exciting upgrades I get for 2-handed melee heroes. They turn into absolute juggernauts
@@iTzTiMeToJuMp Especially if you can get that Tier 3 greataxe with the 'chance to instantly kill Tier 1-3 units' trait.
You can get it in a trade from an AI ally. For insignificant amount of gold. There are also AI that have it on almost every hero, so killing them will get you this.
I think this is a super fair divide because depending on your hero builds you’ll either really love this piece or not care for it. I usually make a hero of each type; melee dps, ranged archer, and magic user. And the melee dps often takes this armor if I get high enough for it, but if not it doesn’t break my game. It is a huge buff for sure though.
Wanted to come here to say the same. It's hands down the best chestpiece for melee I have found my in this game. It's offensive power is unmatched.
I noticed something with "benevolent conquerors" the other day that if true, is more powerful than you would think: Normally when you conquer - vassal, you are locked into a low tier of vassalage, the tributary. You cannot give a tributary a whispering stone, so they are stuck as a tributary. This means they are locked into 20% income, low rally, and over-priced trading.
"Benevolent conquerors" seems to be the main way of circumventing that: it immediately bumps them up to "vassalage", and you can now give them a whispering stone and build them up to max level vassal that gives you 50% of their income and 25% better trading. All of this synergizes with the rest of the Order toolkit - vassal swarm and all that. You have extra whispering stones, you get extra relations with them (which makes them higher tier vassals faster), etc etc.
"You cannot give a tributary a whispering stone" Not true, you can absolutely give a whispering stone to a tributary, I do it all the time. If the hate you too much however, you will not gain any allegiance from giving them one, but there is ways to fix that
I definitely think youre underselling breastplate of the champion. Yes you can get other chest pieces and if youre building an archer or mage type hero its not super useful. But 20% meled damage is very powerful, equivalent to 2 skill points by itself AND you get 20% crit chance potentially boosting that melee damage even more. Additionally this is the only item in the chest slot that can grant either of these effects and there's no other way to get it.
S tier for "All-Seeing" and D-tier for the breastplate really says it all... xD
I've had fights where I've gotten upwards of 3200 knowledge in one fight from Shadow's Knowledge Extraction. Imo you are drastically underrating how powerful it is.
Especially since you can find heroes randomly in resource stacks, and defeat a few when you take out a free city who declares war on you immediately. It's honestly hard not to get a decent payoff from it.
This youtuber is view farming with no knowledge of the game. Dont take his garbage too seriously. Mandatory to have a point of dark in all builds for it, even in MP you are racing to farm free cities with it. Warbreeds by t30 consistently being very conservative. Represents about 30%+ of your science by t20.
I will say its something that gains more and more value the longer a game goes on and its early in shadow so I usually just dip into it mid game with a hero to snag it
Vine Prison + death magic = oof! You will be generating more combat casting points then you are spending!
I was so surprised when I saw the vines counted
Justified Wars can also be used by evil Order players, potentially in conjunction with the grievances from the chaos tree for 50 free grievances against good players.
Okay Jumbo... Breastplate of the Champion. 2 armor, +20% melee damage, +20% melee crit. You're saying that's an underwhelming item for a 2 handed weapon hero? A Tier IV damage boost breastplate which you can get well before getting Tier 4 items in the game, and boost your melee dps hero? Legit D tier? OMFG NO.
Are you a priest? Cause you straight preaching right now 🙏
A boost at expense of imperium for one unit that often comes at expense of alternative boosts for that unit, is underwhelming
Yes, spending Imperium to slightly buff a single unit is completely useless.
It neither gives you a noticeable powerspike, nor it brings benefits that scale as the game goes.
@Oleg Dragora Are you an auto battler? If you put this on a hero with retaliation strikes you literally see the power strike. Eh. I'm not saying it's an S tier, but D is just not right imo.
@@Stu-Bo I do feel like I have to be using autobattles most of the time, otherwise the games take ridiculous amount of time and there is very little fun, depth and decision making in abusing bad battle AI.
Also, the only realistic way of playing multiplayer in my eyes is forcing autobattles, you can't expect people waiting multiple minutes per player doing nothing almost every turn.
But even if we put that aside, the benefits from making 1 unit in your army a bit better are not worth spending Imperium, an extremely limited resource, and the opportunity cost of not having a more impactful empire trait in its place, in my opinion.
I feel like sometimes you evaluate some perks as if they where economy perks when they are in fact tempo perks and viceversa
12:50 I mean you can make everything farms if you go Materium rock tomes and Nature, you can terraform every mountain, desert, disolated, swamp, ice, so on into grassland or forest, you can do it with tier 2 nature tomes and a terramancy tier 3 tome, there is ice as a problem, but chaos tome Demon gate and other tier 4 can straigh up ignore it but chaos do it faster and in a larger area...
So you can be a Crazy Farmer Wizard King terraplaning everything to make farms and or forests
Gogo , coffee ready , thanks for the video :)
Ya Im one of the people who think breat plate of the champion is actually amazing, at the very least its better than cryptblade easy. The second you get it silver tier wonders are extremely doable, which means you can start giving your entire army t3 armor and weapons. And +20% dmg +20% crit +2 def is the best melee chest plate Youre looking to combine this with Bloody edge for insane crit damage or Helm of the warrior for another +10% dmg (let alone crypt blade and assassins dagger). And just to throw it in tomes have some busted upgrades for melee heroes too like flameburst weapon, ancient earth, Exalted Brilliance, Terrifying Aura, Sundering Strikes etc. Theres just so much to make your melee hero an absolute monster that can start diving into gold ancient wonders with a support hero relatively early on
I find the cryptblade makes a good item on a caster/ranger hero as it gives them a very solid melle option in a pinch.
Honestly I’ve picked it several times for this reason exactly to give a mage who may be a little more up close a possible option for close range.
I like your analysis!!!! :) good job :)
Loved this video - both parts. Gave me a lot food for thought. So if you will make another one with more synergies between skills or even skill trees, or make a correction video - rearranging some of the skills because you found new benefits - I would watch it in a second.
Giving each perk 1-5 points depending on D-S gives us these averages for each affinity. Second value is without rites. Third is just rites.
Generic: 4.3
Astral: 4.15 / 4.3 / 3.67
Order: 3.92 / 3.5 / 4
Chaos: 3.61 / 3.7 / 3.33
Shadow: 3.53 / 3.9 / 3
Nature: 3.38 / 3.7 / 2.33
Materium: 3 / 3.4 / 1.66
Knightly orders obviously benefits from the ascended warriors order spell that gives a rank to all units in an army.
Its his opinion though, things like materium I have always rated higher then he does
I do think the affinities are pretty even and overall just operate best when mixing. You could maybe argue that astral is amazing on it's own...
@@iTzTiMeToJuMp Shadow is probably what id put as the worst, astral and nature is probably the best, but for sure mixing is the way... but on the note of shadow... How and why did he put crypt blade above the best melee armor in the game? I was so confused at his reasoning for putting the armor in D but I was like 'whatever he must not value artifacts much' and then he puts that t2 weak blade that costs the same in C and says it could even be in B? Im so confused lol
If you go hard into shadow you will find yourself overpowering your brutal enemies very quickly because of the insane knowledge yields it gives you will have the best spells and tons of unit enchantments/transformations in no time. Doesn't seem like it on paper but it's actually broken.
@@aknaton6349 I wouldnt say they have the best spells, but they have good ones. Their main attraction for me is that their major race change happens in their t3 tome, In fact id say thats when they actually get rolling. Their first node that give knowledge is better in the mid-late game since heroes just dont have enough levels early on, and its easy to dip into. Shadows biggest issues are that their empire tree is meh in the early game and the early tomes are also pretty meh like say cryptblade vs breastplate (dont say this much but this guy rating cryptblade as better is kinda fucking insane lol) anyways shadow takes till the t3 tome of transformation to really hit its stride plus you have to save up 200 skulls to get the wightborn enhancement so you cant be spending them. But once you have this enhancement your army is beastly, everything instantly starts synergizing and youre just on cloud nine sweeping the map. So Very Very good mid game maybe the best but probably the worst early game
Is Ingredient Experimentation per turn?! I thought it was a one off ability, like a sudden knowledge boost for key research. I had NO idea it was that powerful!
Yep, it's completely op. It got me 500 knowledge per turn when I took it as it works on duplicates of magic materials
@@stronggye4 Wow, I didn't know that it worked on duplicates. That's even more OP - S+ even!
@@stronggye4 you had more than 30 materials? At this point you dont even need research lul.
@@user-ju8uk5kv2j it was only around turn 35 when I got it
@@stronggye4 huh? I have around that many all over the medium map, and you got them this early? You got 1 for each turn? What?
Thanks for the video!! Like like
The AI can already do the spying shadows thing from the beginning of the game. They know where your units are and the strength of all your units
I think overall this is incredibly fair and that only two things were considered bottom of the barrel is very fair critique. I do think a few may have been misplaced personally, I think the dagger is more useful then most think if placed on a mage hero so they have a close range option, the breast plate is more based on your style, but overall I’d say very fairly placed for many things. I honestly dip into many of the trees later game once I’ve got quick enough research so I can get some of the early powers in many of the trees because they’re overall just so solid, so it’s nice so many early things are fairly good.
There are times where getting 20% mana upkeep saving in dark is deciding reason for dipping into dark (e.g. choosing dark culture then doing something else) to even have a summoning build so found lack of S ranking a bit odd e.g. compared to starter dark or order.
I think S is a must-have / game-changing. It is only really valuable use of Imperium if you are going heavier into summoning
all upkeep perks are S, its the only bottleneck in this game
Man of the word
I think what puts stolen power a bit higher for me--maybe at A tier--is the importance of when you are getting that extra mana (and knowledge to a lesser extent). After a siege you have likely depleted a fair bit of mana on siege projects, summoning units to fight, and combat spells during the siege battle itself. Getting 200 mana after the conquest happens is a great way to rejuvenate some of those resources for any other battles coming down the pipe--which you may have many of because you're engaged in this kind of warfare.
I get the reasoning for the B tier ranking, but I think having that extra boost right after what will likely be a draining series of fights will be too handy to pass up.
ty
Damn Order Empire tree. I love playing Order for the tomes and the culture, but despise pretty much everything their Empire tree offers. *grumble grumble*
here's the issue with sieges - the AI won't besiege you almost ever, it's super funky at the moment. So you will likely practically never fight a defensive siege and all the defense buildings are very nearly useless. And for offensive sieges, a game design problem - in a battle in which you actually want good siege projects, the AI will venture out and attack you before it comes to a siege battle. If the AI army is weaker, you don't need siege projects for the battle. I exclusively use the extra siege project slots to reduce the duration of sieges, which to be fair, is pretty important - sieges can take 12 turns and that's super unacceptable
Meanwhile in pvp that extra time is super valuable
I am absolutely baffled by so many of your picks. Knowledge extraction at B? It's one of the very best picks in the entire game, to the point where I specifically either find a shadow tome to take or take a shadow skill at leader level 5 purely to unlock it. It's pretty unsurprising that I've found your analysis lacklustre though, because it seems like no one in the community has any level of rigor.
Holy S tier batman! Would you pick these all the time everytime? That is what S tier is for me in these games.
you mix up icon {hexagon ] one off know with 1 shadow empire buff for 50 imperium 52:17
i think oyu mix up
rite of welalth
and
specaklist disctik
icons when put on tier list
Aight
Always strange when people have C being below average, when the point of C in actual grading is it's at Average. Maybe I'm just old, but S is suppose to be things that are either game breaking OP that need to be nerfed, or the kind of thing you can build a strategy around.
If everything is S tier, nothing is
This ranking shows this game is fairly balanced unbalanced :p
Like others I think you are underestimating the Breastplate. It is Best in Slot for melee heroes and can help you clear crap much earlier. Though a C or B ranking is more than fair since it is just a single unit getting boosted and there comes a point(when all the wonders are cleared) where numbers are simply going to boosting a single hero underwhelming. So there is a lot that you would want to take over it. But it is certainly better than the cryptblade. Anyways I can see dumping the items in D-tier since they cost 150 when they should probably cost 50-75'ish, maybe? Rather this rant is because of how soft you are on on a Best in Slot item. I can't really think of a hero that would consider Cryptblade Best in Slot. Assassin's Dagger is better if you want a heavy single action hit or better physical from your archer/mage. You do get the Zombie and if there was no cooldown I could see an undead heavy build using it for amassing in battle zombies for zombie fun. But you'll basically get one per battle. Kinda meh, once combat is engaged my hero generally has better action uses then tapping a nearly dead unit to make a zombie, though particularly with a two hander build there are times you can combine that with killing momentum for good results. Still I have gotten far less use out of that than the Breastplate.
But lets ask a balance question. I feel as if part of the problem with it is that a lot of times you'll spec your early heroes/ruler to be ranged or magic and the melee, particularly the two handed melee hero is kinda just a passing thought in the early game. You have Merlin's Robes for mages, so how about letting the Champion's breastplate effect both physical melee and physical ranged so that ranged also has a chest piece to boost damage.
Just a comment on Resourceful Vigor, but it is just so useful for healing back up while sieging. Since you are just sitting around for 2-6 turns anyways you can just have your injured units sit still while the uninjured ones do the pillaging or whatever else you need. And then the injured ones get to heal like 16HP per turn(assuming 32 move). So you'll probably be back up to full by the time you are on the move again. Or at least close. That said it comes really late and you have a lot of options then and lots of armies and it is expensive since it is late so I am not sure if I would A tier it.
Benevolent conquerors is actually currently the strongest single affinity in the game right now, because you can use it to insta-vassalize small cities. Then of course you turn around and declare war on them, killing their hero for the free knowledge from the tier 1 shadow affinity and selling their corpse and gear for a bunch of gold. You then re-insta-vassalize and repeat ad infinitum thus breaking the game.
will +1 rank all materrium or -1 to all shadow one you maby de world most behest man I have seen in my life and Rite of the banner are a broker skill
I think the logic behind the tier list is flawed to begin with. Most of the games you will have more than one three unlocked so an S tier should be a skill you will pick every single time if you have the option regardless of what you are playing.
Knowledge extraction was so broken they had to nerf it and you rank it B tier pre-nerf. You make 500 Knowledge when battling heroes late game easy, sometimes even 1000. Even if you don't plan on attacking computers NPC armies also have heroes and can give quite a bit of Knowledge. You can get use of it in any situation that makes it S tier. Even after nerf for 50 imperium it's still an S tier, you always need Knowledge.
All-seeing eye - lets say 20 knowledge per turn for 100 turns is 2000 knowledge. If you don't plan on having any vassals there is no point in picking this one.
Basic seafaring and excavation are also solid B tier. They are either S tier - you will pick it every single time you need to cross the water or D tier you will never pick it if there is not water on the map. Same with excavation if you don't plan on building a city underground there is no point in taking it. That makes them B-tier.
Is anyone brother by the fact that he mistake Specialist Districts and Rite of Wealth Icons as each other?
Please play hoi4 Iran glory mod