The Alternate World of A Southern Victory (LORE)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มิ.ย. 2017
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Harry Turtledove imagined a world where the Confederate States of America was a independent country. In his series he details how this changes the world. So in part 1, let's explore a glimpse of this world.
Twitter: / althistoryhub
Special thanks to Emperor Tigerstar for Maps.
/ emperortigerstar
Music (In Order)
Running South 2 by Martin Carlberg
Klondike Gold 1 by Martin Carlberg
Deserted 3 by Johanes Bornorf
Conquer the Battle 1 by Fredrik Ekstrom
![[ไฮไลต์] ฟุตบอลหญิง เยอรมนี vs ออสเตรเลีย รอบแบ่งกลุ่ม | โอลิมปิก 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/i_8UO61YqO8/mqdefault.jpg)
Special thanks to my friend, EmperorTigerstar (link in description) for the maps. This is Part 1 of our series exploring Turtledove's Southern victory novels. The next part will be up in a week, so subscribe to him to see more, or follow me to know when it's up!
Also I used the first CSA flag, because TH-cam doesn't like the battle flag and I'm a coward.
AlternateHistoryHub your the best dude
That is such bs censorship, GREAT WORK otherwise though!
What about Canada!!!
What if there were a successful slave revolt in the American South during Slavery (Like what happened in Haiti)
It's the real flag anyway.
But McClellan didn’t lose, he merely failed to win!
which angered his father who punished him severely
He later said it again but by this time his dad was an old ass man and didn’t do anything.... then died of a lung hemorrhage
Dude, uncool
Surprised there still people commenting on an old video
CrazyCowboyPatton it’s called recommend, watch oversimplified video get recommended easy
I love how “nobody goes to Hawaii” so it immediately becomes a British colony
and then it revolts and wins because why not
That’s the default state of any colony
Hey that means America will be neutral in WW2
Everywhere is a British Colony unless specified
James cook?
3:35 "Two rival nations have to share a continent"
- laughs histerically in european -
Yeah but the Confederate states had enough men a d firepower to declare war on France or Spain at the time.....and the Union was equally strong making the battles bloody.
Sprite Soda fr ppl underestimate she sheer man power the south had. The north won on blockades the state of alabama’s soldiers had more heart (at least for the majority of the war) then the entire union could ever imagine.
@@coreyrush8894 I thought the southern white population was only about 3-4 million vs the Norths 20 million at the time?
Esp the Balkans.
Let's be honest, at this point we're two rival nations sharing a government.
if anyone has been to a civil war reenactment, its pretty funny when the confederates yell something along the lines of “go home damn yankees” and the union soldiers yell back stuff as well
I wanna do a civil war reenactment one day but I don’t think it’s historically accurate for a Pakistani with a welsh accent to do it
Vritngh lol. i could be wrong but i think a lot of people dont care who is in the reenactment.
HCT9beats I hope so. I’ve read some can be really strict but not all.
Vritngh well considering a lot of British officers had Indian servants or slaves who I would assume they’d bring back to uk with them (wellingtons campaigns in India 1803) then if that officer or their ancestors moved to America it would explain accent and heritage if u wanted to fight for the north could be a runaway who enlisted against slavery if for the south a young man who had left uk on his own accord to find a new way of life settled in southern states and was fighting for state rights and to uphold the right to secede. Your back story could be immensely interesting. Or you could just go to the re-enactment for the hell of it doubt people are going to complain as long as there’s another reenactor there.
I was at one 5yrs ago and if I had heard that I'd have died of laughter cause the reenactment was in the north
well that went south pretty quick
FUUUCK
Esco Marcus Sotomayor please don't
Esco Marcus Sotomayor I see what you did there nice one
10/10 pun
Esco Marcus Sotomayor hehehe you're a good man...
Do "What if Australia won the Great Emu War"
et 37 then the space time continues my would be shattered
et 37 pssh! the only reason he hasn't done that one yet is because it's so simple! we would have a cure for cancer, would have solved global warming, ended war for good, would have colonized Mars by now... the list goes on and on! but seriously dude, it's just common sense that this is what would have happened!
Emus would be extinct for one.
I'm Australian so I'll explain the chain of command
>The Emu King
>Queen Elizabeth II
>The Prime Minister
>Rupert Murdoch
That's on the citizenship test
Jimminy Lummox can confirm
What if Naboo declared war on Tatooine and Gondor wasn’t there to save the princess from the evil Jedi?
That sounds like a new channel idea. AlternateStarWarsHistoryHub
about as realistic
@@aidengoodrich5974 Hey lay off
“Damn yankee”
This made me chuckle way too much
Just like how when I think of General Sherman's campaign, I start chuckling.
Inoffensive Name Just like me thinking about the union army at bull run especially twice lol
@@unknown-dq6df ,what's really hilarious is the overall outcome 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣💪🤣🤣
@@unknown-dq6df Manassas*
Allan Hernandez yeah the confederates kicked the Yankees ass
Harry's series was a work that I was unable to put down. An alternate history in fine detail. Most engrossing.
Including the World War II parts?
@@jeffreygao3956
yes.
Southern Victory Series sounds like an important NASCAR event.
Except, of course, the war was absolutely about slavery. "But it was about 'states rights'" you'll say. Yes, it was. The states' rights to keep slavery as a means of economic production and codified race-based social stratification. So yes, the entire purpose of the war was indeed slavery.
@Gary York the south lost. Get over it. Victors get to write history. Don't like it? Well, maybe your ancestors should have been better at actually winning wars. I'm sure you would agree, right?
You're the brainwashed one. Your ancestors could have fought for whatever, but what the GOVERNMENT of the South was undoubtedly about, literally based on documents of the time, was slavery. Just because your family fought for whatever personal reasons doesn't mean that the entire nation was so pure. Let go, dude. It is over. No one is literally calling your family racists for fighting. But supporting a dead country founded on racial discrimination is suspect on your part and anyone else who is alive. You can honor history without being so damn dumb about it. Bad shit happens and our ancestors, all of them, have been guilty at some time. But it's over and done. Stop being so butthurt about it that you literally seek historical revisionism at its worst. Most of that nonsense you believe was propagated in the early 1900s by southern scholars. They made up a bunch of bullshit just like you claim literally everyone else is doing. A little bit of actual real skepticism, not the kind you have, would do you well. When 90% of the evidence weighs down a scale, you shouldn't choose the side with 10%. That's not how research works.
@@mattk5858 also, the north didn't fight against Slavery. The fought to preserve the union so your idea that a northerner sent people to fight for blacks is fucking stupid. That's not what the vast majority fought for.
What caused the secession was slavery, because without it, the south could not keep up with the north in influence and they knew that.
Now did every common person care about keeping slavery? No. But did every common southerner end up falling for the Southern rich men's lies to try and keep their wealth? Yes. They are just as gullible as anyone else. If someone with influence tells you that you can and are fighting on the right side when really you're fighting to protect their money, well it happens to the best of humans. But the south existed and seceded because without slavery and without more slave states, they would lose power in the union and they feared that. Common people be damned one way or the other. But no need to go to your grave today defending those greedy people any more than it is necessary to talk up the nobility of the north. The north didn't want to end slavery, it wanted to keep the country together because it benefitted it and because of misplaced Idealism. That's not heroic, and no one pretends it is. But the South existed to preserve slavery for as long as it could, which wasn't looking likely in the union. Not because the north was better morally but because it was failing economically more and more.
@Gary York and just fyi, I'm also from the south. North carolina. The state that sent the most men to bleed. So cry me a river.
@@artemisentreri-isaacs3059 Actually almost everyone thinks we're cousin fucking racists because we live in the south.
"Now two rival nations are forced to share the same continent."
Europe: "First time?"
Abraham Lincoln: **Outlaws slavery**
Slaves states that remained a part of the Union: Dude. WTF?
Not trying to be that history nerd but, the law was only put on states that were not in the Union at the time. So, Kentucky got to keep their slaves for a bit. But, states that got conquered by the Union had slavery completely abolished.
Lincoln tried to send them back to Africa, (and South America).
Robert lee a general from the South he was an advocate for slaves he even try to convince the other slave owners to free there slaves eventually all slaves were free Also is important to know that the north also had slaves the north even kept there slaves after the civil war ended while the south free there slaves after the civil war.
@Devon Thomas Yep legal slavery lives on.
Ricardo Cordova Jr. Where do you learn your history from? Provide some references before spewing this garbage online
"Let's talk about the civil war"
TH-cam-"no it didn't happen, no racism on the site"
"But we can't ignore it it is history"
TH-cam- "THE AD LORDS HAVE SPOKEN!"
Brendan Murphy what is the civil war all I remember is happy times frolicking in flowers
♪ Imagine me and you, I do
I think about you day and night, it's only right
To think about the girl you love and hold her tight
So happy together ♪♪
I CAN'T SEE ME LOVIN' NOBODY BUT YOU FOR ALL MY LIFE!
***** Most of the time it's not even the flag of the CSA instead it's always the Virginia battle flag.
lETS TaLk AbOUt The CiViL WaR
Just randomly in the video
“And the mormons were rebelling”
Lol, I don’t know why I found that so funny
Cause Mormons wouldn't rebelled.
Mormons were racists until 1976.
@ Generalized much?
@ just cause the leadership was, didn't mean the all church was. It like saying all Christians are homophobic till the 2000's, cause of there leadership. So you are the lazy illogical one. Don't generalize you shithead, if assume all people are one this just cause a few. Does that mean I can all people name Ben kill there fathers, cause a wikipedia have article says Han Solo was kill by his son Ben. If so, then you are murder and need to be arrest.
@ that statement is not exactly true. Yet the story was completely convoluted by Brigham Young. There were a good-sized number of blacks in the early church personally given priesthood by Joseph Smith himself.
The us-confederate post-war tension just sounds like good old Ireland
There are a lot of parallels to Ireland in chapters near the border.
Bingo
And the United States being the English?
It would be as chaotic as 20th century Europe
Indubitably!
"First modern use of trench warfare."
I recall hearing many historians discuss USA trenches around CSA cities.
Key word modern. Trenches were used before just to the extent we saw in the first world war
General Lee had developed trench warfare during the war. Part of the reason he surrendered was because he realized he could have held out for an extremely long period of time with this invention. Davis wanted to continue the war, obviously, but Lee saw it as an unnecessary bloodbath.
Most southern generals had no real love for slavery and even had Union sympathies. Most sided with the South because they were loyal to Virginia. That was it. Had Virginia sided with the North, Lee would have defended the North.
part of my personal respect for Lee is that he set aside his ability to fight and prolong a war to preserve the lives of his men, and the men of the Yankies. It's well documented that he felt a lot of guilt when either side suffered casualties. Hence why his initial goal was to win the war as quickly as possible...
So there were trenches, they were ready for trench warfare. But he surrendered so they never had to use them. Simple as that.
Renaldo Awes The war had nothing to do with slavery, that’s just because the victors wrote history. The reason the South lost was because of the Battle of Kennesaw Mountain.
@@EliteFlight The war had everything to do with slavery. Jefferson Davis admitted it, Alexander Stephens admitted and the Confederate Constitution explicitly stated it in numerous places. Stop with this nonsense. Secession, the Confederacy and the Civil War had a helluva lot to do with slavery.
@@rexsmith9074 The war was about slavery but no everyone in the war fought for slavery.
Fucks sake, Cody I have a physics exam in an hour. But fine I'll just have to explain Nuclear physics from a perspective of the South winning the civil war
Better Dead than Red
which time zone are you?
How's the exam going?
LMAO
Better Dead than Red Is it Gcse i have it aswell
MemeStalker Kaathe i think hes in the uk because i have an exam on on physics today
In my High School sophomore to junior summer I took an American History course. The teacher had us run a simulation on the civil war using dice as the way to determine who won, with various buffs and debuffs thrown in. Nearly the entirety of my class had stated there was no way the south could have won. I proceeded to beg the teacher to let me be the 5 Star General of the CSA (basically lee) and finally got approval.
I spent the next 2 days (about 7 hours) of the simulation fighting a defensive war with some WW1 concepts (trenches) and making use of lesser known technology compared to the rest of my class (Ironclads, Submarines, Gatling guns) and leading the south to conquer DC, and up to Illinois. I also got the french, native Americans, and British to support me militarily, and economically.
I consider it one of my favorite memories, because not only did I utterly pwn the people who ignored alternate outcomes, but also showed that the class had no idea how many variables go into a war and that outcomes can be entirely different if the battle goes differently. I fought a defensive war, pushing the enemy back and digging in, making them come to me.
I just wished the class wasn't as mad at me as they were.
Edit: guys I'm not saying this is a real life literal alternate scenario I did. I commented something relevant and interesting from HIGH SCHOOL. No need to get your knickers in a bunch.
Edit 2: I GOT ONTO CODY'S TWITTER!!!!!!!!!!! If anyone wants to ask anymore questions about it tweet me @Drakador
Drakador I ran a similar simulation with in my geography during freshman year set in ww1 with me playing as The Ottoman Empire and some dorks playing as the Entente. Everyone thought I was gonna lose until I used an early blitz with my cavalry to take the Suez and overrun Egypt. let's just say that the sickman made a miraculous recovery and drop kicked the bull dogs and Australians back into the sea.
Drakador How did you set that up? Like, what were the rules, how did the battles work, etc.?I would love to set up something similar next after summer break, and would ike to have e some sort of premade backbone to work off of.
jacob wilson If there is one important thing about history it's that it is written by the Victor.
Zach Antes My teacher had it set up but a defender got a +2 bonus and an attacker with the high ground got a +1. There are a lot of rules and it's a long thing to explain. basically it was like Risk with more rules.
Drakador ...but some times the most interesting history is that of those who lost...
Imagine meeting somebody from this universe, it would be an interesting conversation lol
I would love to talk to someone from that universe and blow their mind by saying "The CSA? it didn't even last 5 years!" especially me being from the UK and supporting the union of course, that might boggle their mind too.
I'd like to see their video entitled "what if the north had won"
I'd say "Wow, your favorite author's J.R.R. Tarkin? Mine's J.R.R. TOLKIEN!"
@@jeffreygao3956 Damn alternate reality pirates, stealing our argh arghs
@@miconis123 I think it's sweet!
"What if the confederacy won?"
General sherman: *confused screaming*
wasn't Sherman a wwi or wwii gen or is that just Patton
Ulysses S. Grant confused and drunk
What am I suppose to burn now?
@@adinp9384 thank you I didn’t know that
@@adinp9384 You forgot how he did something different in South Carolina where he still continued to destroy everything.
Damn Messenger ... You had ONE JOB!
Good thing he failed
xD
Kevin Tumbo not his fault he got caught by union scouts
Thank the good Lord that he got caught.
chilean wanderer no he didn't. He *LOST* the message. It was disguised by being wrapped around some cigars. It was found by a Union soldier, who was really only interested in the cigars, but his officer realized the paper protecting them was more than just wrapping. It was passed on up the chain of command, and Antietam was the result.
Steven Weaver sorry my bad here in Texas the schools don't teach it like that. Thanks for pointing it out,hate to promote false information
*Dixie whistles considerably louder*
By considerably you mean earape
@@grugamersriseup7299 Send them back your fierce defiance stamp up on the cursed alliance to arms
Oh way down south in the land of traitors, rattlesnakes and alligators, right away, right away, come away, come away
yall northern, eastern, southern, Texan or western?
@@notenoughmemes1847 🤓
I’ve read the first two books of the southern victory series. Both of them are great perspectives on this kind of time period. These books are good because they use many characters, and section off said characters in different parts. Definitely recommend.
The Confederates would have been
an international and national menace to everyone, especially to the Caribbean islands. The Caribbean islands should remain permanent members of the British, French, Spanish, and Dutch empires and commonwealth. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison were greedy, brutal, violent, malicious, deceitful men, they established the foundation for the country to fall apart.
3:40 Now 2 rival nations are forced to share the same continent
Every other nation on this planet: Am I a joke to you?
Thank you for using the real Confederate Flag
AlphaX Gaming the Stars and Bars!
I know so much "Right" information
AlphaX. At least their second flag. I do agree that finally someone stayed away from the battle flag for once.
Never knew there was another one.
@@andymadden8183 There were four. Bonnie Blue, the Stars and Bars, the Stainless, and the Blood Soaked.
2:17 If Assassin's Creed sets a game set in the U.S. Civil War, I could see intercepting Special Order 191 being a mission. I could also see McClellan being a Templar plant, purposely leading the Union forces to failure, like Charles Lee did in the Revolutionary War. And Robert E> Lee, and "Stonewall" Jackson? Also Templars.
Doubt they’d make Robert E. Lee a Templar. History favors him too much. If he had wanted to, he could’ve dragged the war on for many years through guerilla warfare. Instead he told his men to pack up and head home. If they made him anything, it should be an assassin who has lost his way.
McClellan's biggest problem was he sat on his ass too long, and never pressed advantages. His tactics were actually fairly sound and usually boiled down to random coincidence, dumb luck, or incompetence lower on the chain that screwed him over. But he himself never wanted to attack, it was said he cared too much about his soldiers and didn't want to send them out to to their deaths (caring is good but in his case it was the reason the war dragged out so long). I can see him being similar to George Washington in III, a well meaning but flawed man who's own sentimentality lead to far more of his beloved soldiers dying than he wanted
Lee would be like the guy who works for the Templars and who the Assassins think is a Templar but he actually has no idea about it all and is actually a really nice guy. The mysterious 'General of the Army' Templar turned out to actually be McLellan all along and even though you don't kill him, you get him fired and use your connections to get Abraham Lincoln to promote your trusty buddy Ulysses S Grant.
@@dusty2080 yeah caring is good as long as it doesnt get more men killed. McLellan cared too much to order an advance and just sat while they all got hit by cannonfire while Lee cared so much that he surrendered the war in order to avoid the bloody fighting that would be the Union taking Richmond and forcing a surrender.
Lee would not be a templar lol
It’s a great series. Turtledove is a genius.
Last time When i was this early the Robert E, Lee statue was still standing.
DonaldTrump4prez2020
too true,.... and sad?
Doesn't make since, since he was actually AGAINST slavery, and the confederacy in general. He only joined on their side since his home state Virginia joined in and he wouldn't fight his own state. Had Virginia never seceded he would have most likely fought against the south.
which is why it is sad that they remove status of him since he was a good man and also the greatest military mind of the era
He didn't want statues of him. He didn't want grand war memorials. He wasn't buried in his uniform, the men who served under him weren't in uniform when carrying his casket. The statues of him weren't even put up until after he was dead and could no longer object.
What if the mongols had successfully invaded Japan?
Whta if the mongols had successfully invaded the moon?
What if the Mongols had successfully invaded the universe?
what if the mongols invaded mongolia
FactHub Same thing that happened to Korea, vassalage. Perhaps a more centralized Japan in the future do to being controlled by a single powerful entity for a while.
FactHub Nope every scenario (que bill wurtz) And die in a tornado
My version of this timeline goes a little differently:
*1860’s*
• After the War of Secession, the CSA takes Kentucky and the other Union Slave States (Maryland, Delaware, Missouri,) and also annexes West Virginia back into Virginia. Besides those places: the New Mexico Territory, the Colorado Territory, and the Nevada Territory are also annexed into the Confederacy.
• To spite the Union, Utah and California gain independence as the “Theocracy of Deseret” headed by the Mormons and the “Empire of California” under Emperor Joshua Norton respectively. California agrees to the CSA using their ports.
• In order to earn the support of France, the CSA intervenes in Mexico on their behalf to help install Maximillian Habsburg as Emperor.
• The USA and CSA move their respective capitals to NYC and Atlanta in order to distance themselves from each other and keep their capital cities safer from future conflicts.
*1870’s-1914*
• Pretty much the same as the actual books - USA vs CSA Cold War, 2nd Yank-Dixie War resulting in CSA purchasing Chihuahua and Sonora from Mexico, German Empire allying with the USA, CSA gaining Cuba.
• After the Franco-Prussian War, the 3rd French Republic is initially reluctant to get involved in American affairs, but eventually restores friendly relations with the CSA.
• Russia is eventually forced to sell Alaska to British Canada. However, the Russians living there refuse to leave or integrate, seeing Brits as unjust and unwanted rulers. This has implications for the future.
*1914-1918*
• WW1 breaks out same as IOTL, but now also with an American front between the USA on one side, and both the CSA and Canada on the other. Deseret, California, and Mexico declare neutrality, though Mexico’s Habsburg Emperor is sympathetic to the Central Powers.
• War goes like in the book mostly, though there is additional fighting in Missouri among other places, including an American naval invasion of British Hawaii. In 1917, as the Allied Powers begin crumbling to revolts in Europe, that happens too in Canada and the CSA.
• Mexico fights its own battles in Central America, annexing the various tiny countries that were once part of the First Mexican Empire. They ignore Belize since it’s a British colony. Mexico soon reaches Panama (in this TL still owned by Colombia.) Mexico demands the region be sold to them, Colombia refuses, and so a Mexican-Colombian War ensues on the sidelines that Mexico eventually wins, uniting Central America under one flag.
• In Canada, both Alaska and Quebec break away. There is a huge immigration of White Army people from Russia to Alaska when it happens. With American assistance, both Alaska and Quebec become independent Republics.
• The African-American revolt in the CSA is led by Huey *SCHLONG-DONG* Long, who leads the revolt to focus in Texas, where he used his oratory skills to revive Texan independence movements. A 2nd Texan Republic is established.
• Seeing how weak the CSA is (and plus being sympathetic to the Central Powers,) Mexico joins the war against the Allies to liberate Cuba, take back Chihuahua and Sonora, and also to annex Belize from Britain. This happens. Partway through, Mexican forces also invade Texas and clash with both Confederates and Texans, but Huey Long convinces Mexico to leave them be.
• In Europe, France is swallowed in a civil war that started with its army mutinying, allowing Germany to easily annex Brie-Longwy from them. Italy surrenders, the Brest-Litovsk Treaty is put in place with Russia. Germany, despite sending Vladimir Lenin to cause chaos in Russia, realizes a big communist country like Russia on their doorstep would be a bad idea, so they intervene to try to help the remaining Whites. But with most of the Whites in Alaska, they can’t do much.
• The Soviet Union still rises, but its postwar borders are similar to modern-day Russia’s borders due to Belarus and Ukraine being under German influence and the Central Asian Stan’s under Ottoman influence.
* 1918-1939*
• After the conflict, the Ottoman Empire fights an ongoing civil war against the Arab Revolt. Germany sends help to them. Austria-Hungary is also on the verge of collapse.
• Britain loses Ireland entirely as well as some colonies. Italy is reformed into the “Italian Federation” or “United States of Italy” which is a loose union of small states puppets of Germany and Austria-Hungary.
• The French Civil War is highly complicated, with several sides vying for control - Conservative Republicans from the old government, Liberal Republicans, Monarchists, Bonapartists, Communists and Socialists. Germany intervenes on behalf of the Monarchists while the Soviets aid the Communists however they can.
• Overall, Europe is turning into Germany’s playground, with Mitteleuropa being put in place as well as puppet monarchies loyal to Germany.
• In America, the USA emerges as a Great Power after taking back Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico/Arizona, Missouri, Kentucky, West Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, and D.C from the CSA. The USA recognizes Texan independence, then intervenes in the Caribbean to help liberate the Bahamas, Cuba, and Jamaica.
• The CSA is little more than a backward rump state hit hard by the war. Rather than Jake Featherston, a real figure named William Simmons - founder of OTL’s 2nd KKK - rises to power in the CSA, turning the Confederate States into the Klan-Confederacy. He is able to do so because despite there not being a Great Depression, the CSA was sanctioned so much that they can’t hardly industrialize or revive their economy, allowing Simmons to rise to “take drastic action.”
• During the 1930’s, the Klan annexes Cuba and also fights wars with both Mexico and Texas, the USA watching nervously. After annexing Texas (but not easily since Huey Long’s Texas puts up a fight,) Long evacuates to Deseret. The Klan-Confederacy demands they hand Long over to “atone for his sins,” but the USA steps in to stop this. Long story short, what would become WW2 begins...
That’s what I have so far. Once I decide how WW2 will go, I intend to go beyond what Turtledove wrote and continue through to 2020 with the COVID outbreak and everything.
Cody Morris Emperor Joshua Norton? You’re joking right?
OC Beezilla What?
Cody Morris Norton becoming emperor is unrealistic. He was literally just a mascot for San Francisco and was considered to be the local nut but people liked him. Might wanna revise that part.
OC Beezilla Not trying to be realistic, just having fun with it.
Cody Morris oh okay. Cheers!
It’s not the comment section you have to worry about Twitter/X is the real monster
I like how Cody's eye expanded out past his own face. 9:08
Wasn't the whole reason Russia sold Alaska to the US was that they couldn't afford to keep the colony and were under threat of the English taking it from them by force? So instead of losing Alaska empty handed they decided to sell it to the US. SO in this alternate timeline wouldn't the British have control of Alaska?
Yes, and that means it would be part of Canada, which became independent soon after that war. Canada would then be richer in the upcoming gold rush and oil boom, and the US poorer. It would be interesting to see if Canada would seek to settle some old scores (1812), with the UK's and France's help of course.
i thought it was because the tsar at the time had a *massive* gambling problem and had debts to other royal houses that were so big that he had to sell alaska to the americans.
Maxben
We get Alaska????
*polites whispers*
yasssssssssssssss
Well Russia had just finished the Crimean war involving the British a decade prior to selling Alaska. So they were likely fearing a repeat of something like that . However Russia became entangled in no wars with Britain afterwards. So holding things constant ,and unless they decided to sell to Britain instead, Russia would hold onto Alaska, as no war occurs and they actually ally one another in the triple Entente with France.
Meaty Gorak It was too far off from the seat of power
Anyone else rewatching these for the 25th anniversary of the series?
Wow, it's as old as Harry Potter?! That's insane!
In school we never called it by that name. We learned ‘the War Between the States’.
Turtledove does a smash up job on his alternate history and I was always awaiting the next installment in his series.
Moreover, his series was much more realistic than most in plausibility. The bitterness between the two nations would be endless.
For your next alternate history lore subject, I highly recommend the Korean film "2009 Lost Memories".
It pictures the world if Korea was still occupied by Japan well into 2009. The reason this is possible is because powerful Japanese people in our own timeline discover time travel. They travel back to 1909 and use their knowledge of future events to manipulate history, making Japan the premier global superpower.
They prevent the the assassination of the Japanese governor of Korea, thus stopping the Korean resistance from gaining public support early on.
They convince the Japanese government to side with the allies during WW2 instead of the Axis, allowing them to keep all the lands they conquered, as well as having the nuke dropped on Berlin instead.
Japan gets a permanent seat on the UN Security Council instead of China.
All the while the time-traveling people introduce futuristic technology, giving Japan a serious technological, military, and economic advantage over the rest of the world.
Me, a Korean: *Shudders in disgust*
Imagine if they made a full on TV show about this timeline like The Man In The High Castle
I’d rather watch it than Man in the High Castle
@@crimsondynamo615 That show was dope apart from the last season
I’d never be able to stand all the annoying southern accents.
I would however, change things considerably maybe have no nukes in World War II or at least, just Germany has nukes.
Finally some one who uses the real Confederate flag!
@@TheGoodCrusader why am I hiding from history? I only said that he used the official Confederate flag.
@Suebian The actual CSA flag is still a rebel flag. They proudly flew it knowing they were committing treason.
@Suebian umm then what was it mr. Jefferson davis
Gabriel.b so do you support China trying to oppress the protestors in Hong Kong? The people who want to be free from an oppressive government?
Do you support North Korea trying to turn South Korea into part of the communist country? Do you support what North Vietnam did to the south? Because by your definition that’s all treason, hell by that definition us declaring independence from Great Britain was treason.
They're both real confederate flags. One was a battle flag to prevent confusing them
So one guy doesn't drop a letter and that's it
10/10 definitely the content I subbed for
The butterfly effect is a powerful thing.
There’s an incredible case to be made for it. The rest of the North campaigns for dividing and conquering were imminent given the advantages in resources, but if the strike had been successful at that time it likely wouldn’t have mattered. Lee was an incredible mind.
@@harrisonwood5705 many a US general has looked back at general Lee as potentially THE BEST general to ever be produced by the US even if he ended up fighting for the confederates.
The primary reasons for this involves repeated victories where Lee was on paper; out manned, outgunned, with fewer strategic resources, and worse supply lines and yet won consistently through strategic maneuvering and quick practical decision making.
It has also often been said that if the civil war had started on more equal footing as far as infrastructure and supply lines the war would have been an overwhelming southern victory.
Amen to all of that. Additionally, the Union’s Naval advantage proved paramount as the east coast and Mississippi became stifled. However, this could have been mitigated with European aid, which would’ve been possible with a convincing northern campaign, which likely would’ve happened.... if it weren’t for that message interception.
If a certain Crown prince would have the situational awareness of going home after a failed assassination attempt we would probably not have had the two World Wars
Execute order 191.
shalol I thought it was Order 66. 😀
Smelled like good old Espionage...
+Ben Trimble have you not watched this video yet idiot -_-
DaWaffleMaster Blast him!
shalol slave wars
I read a few if these books and they were brutal. However, the concept intrigued me, so I appreciate these videos. Well done.
I love alternate history honestly
Turtledove is the master of alternative history!
What if d day failed
Nothing much Germany would still lose the war since the soviets were basically doing most of the actual fighting. The only real difference would be the war lasting longer (4-12 months), and Russia would take more German land. If the US/UK forces dont invade Europe Stalin may have continued pushing farther west into Europe.
Victoria Bittencourt
The Nazis would likely be able to repel the Russians and strengthen their foothold on Western Europe without the Allies pushing in from France after D-Day. Patton would still finish pushing the Nazis out of Africa, but would refrain from pushing into Italy due to the failure of D-Day and without the Russian army pushing from the East. Russia would fall under the full force of the Nazi military and would be occupied. US/UK/AUS/CAN would attempt another amphibious invasion to gain a foothold in mainland Western Europe, but it would fail miserably as the Germans would be on full alert with the full strength of their military at their disposal. A month later Britain would fall to the Nazis after constant bombing from the Luftwaffe. Churchill and any high-ranking Allies in Britain are executed in the streets. The war reaches a stalemate with the Allies dug into Africa and the Germans occupying all of Europe. With such a drastically different outcome, it would be hard to say what else might occur.
abyssinia4ever you realize that's alot right? Soviet Russia was starting to win and so the allies commenced dday to beat Russia from going completely West which they may have and tried to keep it which would of resulted in revolts and possible allies vs Russia war a dday lost would of changed alot in history/future
True but Parker is right. With the ability to deploy more infantry and panzer divisions to reinforce the eastern front, the Soviets probably couldn't win the war, but they would not necessarily lose either. It could have turned into a stalemate for all we know. Its hard to predict. Although i don't think Britain would surrender until a land invasion actually occurs by the Nazis. With the U.S. Army Air force on station, it became very difficult for the Luftwaffe to bomb the British, along with the Brits developing newer and more advanced radar technology. Britain would surrender on 2 conditions: The U.S. could not help the Brits due to manpower required in the Pacific and the Soviets have surrendered. I could go on, but there are so many possibilities. Not trying to start an argument, but there are so many different ways the war could have turned out.
Soviets steamroll Europe, the cold war sees a twice as strong USSR and half as strong US. By now every country would be part of the internationalé.
Who's here after "Civil War Oversimplified"?
Me 😂
Yee
Yeet
Only 130 people did
This angered big bang attack4561,who punished every one else severely
lol me
Shortly after the end of the Second Great War, a war veteran from the US named James Roberts Ronald Tarkin(and you thought I meant Tolkien) writes down the acclaimed book series Teutonic Adventures(we've got equivalents in Lord of the Rings, Jirel of Joiry, etc. Basically, it's some of every epic fantasy.) They launch not only a multimedia franchise(including a German film series, a Swiss animated TV series/anime, and a heavily acclaimed film series from America) but also numerous imitators. The main villain is Dark Lord Kazar, a ruthless warmonger who wants to exterminate all humans(like how Jake Featherston committed genocide against African-Americans and other people that white Southerners saw as inferior.) The franchise also starts the trend of fantasy characters having their moral alignment defined by accent(with exceptions of course): Northern US accents and German seen as heroic while the sound of a Southern, British, or French accent would be a sign of evil. People opposed to the French and British like the Indians and Vietnamese would be seen as generally heroic while Japanese would be a toss-up. Then Game of Thrones by Georg Martin came around many years later and subverted many expectations.
Here's another alternate history video. What if I had a social life?
Rofl My Waffles Thats to hard to imagine
TheLegend27 DAMN!
Woah, woah woah... He only covers reasonable/realistic alternate histories here! Not science fiction!
Rofl My Waffles ROFL makes a friend. Rofl, while timid at first, begins to open up more, and is eventually introduced to Friend Xs friends. They all become good friends, one of which is highly passionate in his political views, and gets him into law and politics. Rofl graduates, nothing special like validictorian, but inpressive enough to get him into a decent college. Two years in, he meets his lover named Lmao. The two begin dating, and after another two years, the two get married.
However, his antisocial life that was originally meant to be, had a drastic change.
Individual B was inspired one day after seeing rofl all sad and lonely in the school cafeteria. It made him want to help others. In the original time-line, he had spent one day volunteering at a children's cancer ward. He was supposed to meet a beautiful girl who unfortunately was plagued with cancer. He told her how beautiful she was, and gave her, the formerly depressed girl, the strength she needed to push through and beat it.
In the original time line, she would have gone out on her first day of beating cancer and enjoy the world. Then, rofls friend in the other timeline, the political one, friend C, was standing in public and speaking his mind on the current political situation. She saw how much passion he had, and approached him to learn more. They married right after high-school and had a kid. Unfortunately, both didn't realize how costly a child was. Friend C dropped out of college, giving up his dream of being president.
In this alternate timeline where ROFL had a social life, Individual B was never inspired by his antisocialness, and never went to the cancer ward to help the girl get through cancer.
While sad that the two never got together and had a kid, and the girl ended up dying, Rofl's friend, Friend C, partnered with ROFL end the two made it through college together.
Friend C found a different woman to fall in love with and had kids. She pushed him to his dreams, and became a senator while his friend became mayor, and rofl became a senator before moving on to a member of congress.
In 2048, Friend C ran for president, with ROFL as the vice president. They won.
Three years into his presidency, Friend C died.
ROFL became president, and inspired by his friends unaccomplished actions, took over as president, ran for office, and won.
His thoughts of cooperation and moving forward as humanity became the beginning steps towards unity. A hundred years later, rofl is still remembered as being the father of current society that thrives in peace and unity. Humanity is slowly moving towards a type one civilization, and on their way being the humanity every child dreamed of when first watching star wars or star trek.
All because, he came out of his shell, and showed the world that he CAN change things, he IS a somebody, and anyone else can be too, whether it be small to just their community, large scale such as their state or nation, and maybe even, the entire world.
Austin Vasquez yay
What if Emperor Norton *actually* became the Emperor of U.S?
Got her Boston beans, got her Frisco queens...anything that sales!
@@alswann2702 That's 25 dollars.
Confederate States of America is a pretty awesome math documentary that explores this topic really well
2:23
Ulysses s Grant:I am a joke to you
Alternative history hub:No,but you was in Tennessee
Grant:true
Grant dose cameo in the book
What if the Templar Order never went extint?
Joao Madureira It didn't.
as far as we know, it did
And as far as is the Official the KGB was disbanded on November 9, 1991.
But we all know it wasn't. It simply changed and now operates entirely in secret.
yes, but oficially the Templar Order ended when the last Grand Master, Jacques de Molay, was ordered to be burned by Filipe the IV, the King of France with the permission of the pope, we know that there were orders that decended from the Templars like "Orden de Santiago" in Spain, which I don't know much about, and "Ordem de Cristo" in Portugal which was created because of a request of the king D. Dinis of Portugal to the pope, it's also theorised that the Freemasons were aslo originated from the Templars. But I was proposing a scenario were the King of France never got power hungry and the Templar order remained the same
Ok. I understand what you're saying. Not that they didn't go extinct, just not having the grandmaster killed. That would make for an interesting video.
I love these little crossovers. Plus I like the idea of 'well what if' since turtledove does a good job of fleshing out this world to make it feel, well... like a world that naturally evolved rather than an author going 'this is how it is. stop asking.'
Its so crazy that one person can change the course of the entire works
Slavery: exists
Abraham Lincoln: Dude.......uncool
If you get it you get it
There's a tax for that
As a Kentuckian, I'll have you know that Louisville is Luh-a-vull
Nah it can be pronounced both ways
Poo Poop no
Or as we say even deeper in the South: “Lull-Ville”
@@poopoop7602 I have never heard a Louisville native pronounce it as it is in this video.
I have also heard that Illinois is Ill-in-oy. I am not American but quite enjoy the correct pronounciation of the states and cities.
Arkansas - (Ar-can-saw) is my favourite pronounciation.
Alternate History: What if Plankton had the Krabby Patty formula?
(Yes this is a joke don't actually do that lol)
He did in the Spongebob movie
@@namelessname3260 yeah and krabs was like the bra bandit or sumthin
Ruphite this need to be a video
I just realized something. When plankton had the formula he didn't do anything with it
Ruphite I wish I could save comments 😂
"Louisville is the first use of trench warfare."
Europe:
*Write that down, write that down*
Yep that also in the book.
It's weird watching this AFTER I watched the video where Turtledove is shit on for his 'The War that Came Early' series. I guess his word is hit or miss
I am under the impression that his Highs are the Highest but his
Lows are the Lowest.
What is Einstein did accept the role of Israel's president?
Muhummad Smith Oh you again
It seems we have similar interests
Yes, it seems we do
Russia, Cuba, China and North Korea never took Socialism. That was communism. Big difference in how it goes about, even if they are similar ideals from the same group of people.
Loneboar _ they were Socialist, no nation has ever been truly Communist, and the USSR meant Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics
Loneboar _ Socialism is the way to Communism. Fuck you Socialist
my ancestor was a confederate soldier he was a part of an Arizona troop a confederate territory
the one thing people found so intrsting about him was that he was a blonde haired,blue eyed Jewish man with a Finnish background
we had a couple Aryan Jews in germany too until you know what happend
i know a story about a teacher pointing at a student with blond hair and blue eyes and said: "this is how a true german looks" the class started laughing and told the teacher "she is a Jew"
Xavier Saavedra my two ancestors killed each other in new Orleans during the union occupation of new Orleans. one side liked the union, one side liked the Confederacy. Both sides being French Cajuns
jacob wilson that's how you spell Cajun wow
also your ancestors were one of the split family's of the war dang
Xavier Saavedra yeah it sucked when I found out but yeah that's how Cajun is spelled
busi magen because that's where he was born in the Arizona or new Mexico territory and I use Arizona troop loosly.
Because Arizona then was so under populated it was more of a squad then a troop and he fought under a Texas group.
I mainly use it so people who don't understand the war can sorta understand where my ancestor was during the civil war.
The premise that the US could not afford to purchase Alaska from Russia seems very flawed. If the war ended in 1862 in Turtledove's books (haven't read them so perhaps he had it in 1863) then it also means the North never had to fork over the tremendous expenses of the last two years of the war, plus the beginning years of Reconstruction, which included keeping an army of occupation in the South. There is no reason to believe the Northern economy would have suffered by the war ending earlier, nor is there any reason to think that the US government would be "too poor" to buy Alaska. If anything, the South would have struggled to compete in an increasingly industrialized world and the British had already begun exploring the idea of growing their own cotton in places like Egypt. At some point, it's more than likely they would have concluded that there was an advantage to growing their own rather than purchasing it from the South and there goes the CSA's main export. What seems very possible is that the entire CSSA basically becomes Mississippi, that is, a tiny class of elite landowners and a massive underclass of dirt farmers and slaves. There is no likely path to a CSA becoming anything approaching a world power.
I read this ENTIRE series, all the way to "In At The Death" WWII, when it first came out. It was awesome.
Still waiting for part 3......
Adam Akan half-life the video
Its already here, along with part 4.
Where is part 3?
ExcaliberDG11 maybe hate idk but hopefully it will continue
What?
Why are people trying to stop the new HBO show confederate from coming out?
+A killer Pacman
Cuz those folks are a bunch of autistic snowflakes that will never understand the divide between fantasy and reality
Drew C it's here
Watching this channel cover the insane lore of the Deadlands TTRPG would be quite entertaining
Didn’t turtledove write a novel where the south wins because a group of time travelers supplied them with an-47s and other modern weaponry ? Or am I misremembering?
Robert Martin he’s written a fuckton of books so I wouldn’t be surprised
Guns of the South is the book
Yep a Bunch of Neo Naz... Err well... White Supremacy travel back in time loaded with AK47s to help the south, also something happened between the Confederate and White Supremacy and they end up fight eachother... Overall the Confederate Wins (Against White Supremacy) and prepare for a second battle with the Union who have invaded Canada and are coming back
You guys should do a video on The Handmaids Tale. It's actually interesting how that alternate history plays out. Sadly not a whole lot of details to go off of though.
Your videos remain interesting and compelling while also giving a purely objective look into history. Thank you for putting so much effort into your content- it really shows!
Personal favorite series of mine from Mr. Turtledove thanks for covering this for me even though I've read the series at least 6 times.
8:00 kaiserreich kaiserreich kaiserreich
I would like to thank you. I've had a very stressful evening and it feels amazing to just lie in bed and watch your videos. Thank you so much, and have a great night.
Love Harry Turtledove's works!
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL
7:44. I was born there, and we pronounce it loo-a-vul.
I have my popcorn ready and I'm about to scroll down the comments, this'll be good!
I love the concept of this episode. The idea of the Confederate State accepting industrialization over slavery in a longer period of time makes perfect sense and gives a more three-dimensional look to a Confederate victory.
@BTIsaac ....but..... isn't that government official from New York?
The Union slave states didn't free their slaves until after the war was over. The Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in Southern slave states... Missouri, Delaware and Maryland kept theirs for the duration of the war.
The abolition of slavery was a big deal to Southern states because it would have completely crippled Southern economy... Not because whites couldn't or wouldn't do the work (their was *and is* a vast majority of poor Southerners that would do the work), but because the protective tariffs imposed by the Union on the South (to fund their industrialization) would have made it impossible to pay the workers or make a living. The Union offered NO plan to free the slaves until after the war and NO contingency policy regarding the livelihood of Southern agriculturalists... why? Because they didn't really care as long as they were able to continue collecting the tariff money placed on Southern exports to Europe.
That's why the South used "slavery" as a reason for secession. Everyone knew it was coming and welcomed the demise of the practice. There's plenty of evidence for it.
@BTIsaac Which racists exactly? An incredibly large portion of the population was/is poor due to the federal government taking advantage of them. Do they deserve to be punished? How about Black Americans that were born and live in the South? Do they deserve to be condemned to abject poverty for eternity based solely upon where they live? It's an unfortunate fact of history that slavery was utilized, but during it's legal status the federal government took full advantage of what it could contribute by levying protective tariffs all the way up to at least the 13th amendment... and continued to profit from it when they allowed slavery to occur in US controlled Guam from 1898 until 1900. There's no telling where else they profited from slavery after it's supposed "abolition". The most important thing is that it is no longer legal. Any race baiting or discrimination that occurs in modern US history is opposed by laws and regulations and is a personal offense rather than a national one. You do realize that the rest of the country cannot function at it's current capacity without the agricultural contribution of Southern states, correct? Mass forced immigration without proper assimilation will be the downfall of the entire nation.
My kid just woke up screaming like a confederate soldier who just had the same dream as Martin Luther King Jr.
I love your channel keep up the great stuff
I love your videos alternate history hub
What if Germany never unified? (1871 Unification)
ooo sounds good
Benjamin Natividad The world would be better.
Very simplistic view of things. If they hadn't unified then there's a big chance there wouldn't even be a scenario where their economy goes to shambles allowing a revolt, there might not even be WW1, at least as we came to know it. There's a lot more to it
Maybe a reinstatement of the Holy Roman empire by Austria.
Well one of the things that could of stopped it could be that Germany loses in the austro Prussian war or the Franco Prussian war which both France and Austria could of teamed up against Prussia and the south German states could of revolted which my vote for victory would be for Prussia cause am bias lol
When he south gotta give up slavery:
England and France: *Wait, that’s illegal*
Everybody gangster till Gaverlo Princip shoots Archduke Franz Ferdinand
WattDrivefive u forgot the part about the sandwich
This seems like he is trying to run straight into controversy even before the video started
Reading the Great War trilogy right now. Absolutely brilliant.
When you make a series, please consider going back and adding forward links to the previous video descriptions.
I love Cody and EmperorTigerstar's dynamic.
What if the Spanish Inquisition was expected?
Their chief weapon is surprise
The world would end.
Nobody Ever expects the Spanish Inquisition , never.
Damn, I wish I would’ve found this comment back when my profile picture and name was the Spanish Inquisition 😂
What if Napoleon won the battle of waterloo?
I read this as "what if Napoleon won the battle of Naboo" and was really confused
Napoleon was the Chosen One! He was supposed to join the Republicans, not destroy them!
Ladifour Bring balance to France. Not leave it in darkness!
He still loses within the year because the entirety of Europe was marching against him. If not the the Britsh and Prussians then to the Austrians, and if not to them to the Russians. Napoleon was doomed by Leipzig, not by Waterloo.
Nothing changes. He would lose eventually
3:37 - "Two rival nations are forced to share the same continent".
The US, even as one country, is more divided than the rest of the world who actually DO experience that reality.
Jeez...
Amazingly, voting in the US very closely follows the old south/north divide.
@@skippy9214 Not really. If you look at a map, it is not that simple and their differences have nothing to do with slavery. It is about everything else.
* Sudan has entered the chat
Not Ture at all. If it was they'll be more than one civil war
Thanks for your videos. I do like your description of Union Gen. especially early on. In north alabam we have an old Us army base used for ww2 training named for maybe the not so bravest Union called ft McClellan. Replacing him was one of the best move possible.
great recap. I loved this series and this video could be a great way for me to convince others to read it! thanks for doing this. I read these as they were coming out and couldn't wait for the next book. turtledove is one of my favorite authors.
yay...
even more multi-part series
7:21 I like how youtube trained me to skip around here lol
My man; you’ve got to start articulating those “Ts;” it’s very imporTant
what if native americans became technologically surperior first and colonized the world?
Vakama87 he's talking about the native Americans making the Atlantic passage earlier than the Europeans
Yeah like that would ever happen.
EW B I believe that would have to be a completely different world starting in prehistoric times. All history would be different completely because that would have had to mean the wheel was not invented in Mesopotamia and the empires that existed there and influenced Europe would not have existed. When Europeans arrived, native Americans had not even invented the wheel yet. Not saying they didn't have advanced technology like in the mesoAmerican region but neither the Aztecs or incas had wheels or large pack animals.
Didn't the Incas have Llamas though, granted they couldn't carry as much as a horse or bull but it was at least something.
Brandon Lyon Well they still made one of the largest empires in World history, but it still was a stone age empire.
I have been wanting this for years! Thank you!
Great series! Thank you :) I was wondering if you'd ever considered doing a video on the world of the Peshawar Lancers? Recently read that book and it's a really cool premise!
"Guns of The South" - Outstanding Alternate History novel. Old but a goodie!