This makes me think of the unique setup my dorm complex had. Each building had its own panel but the community center building’s panel would monitor all of the dorm buildings and if a dorm building went into alarm, the panel in the community center alongside its annunciator would show alarm while not sounding the alarms in the community center. It was really interesting.
Really neat seeing a proper video on this. As far as I understand, most of the incompatibility is entirely arbitrary. In every poll each device responds with a 5 bit manufacturer ID, and the panel decides what to do with it. Some panels ignore the device like it doesn't work, others like my 5700 show a "wrong type" trouble, and some do not care and will talk to almost any brand. Recently new System Sensor SS series smokes were released that work with both Firelite ES and Silent Knight Intielliknight 6000 series panels with just a firmware update. They're touted as saving shelf space and reducing complexity for installers, when Honeywell / Pittway INTENTIONALLY created this problem in the first place. It's infuriating!
It's absolutely frustrating. I doubt there is anything more to it than software locks on these devices. I understand partially why it's done to keep compatibility lists from getting too crazy but it would be nice if those could be updated. As well as the device is listed to work on more systems. But they've created quite the situation that would be quite some work I would assume to reverse.
I work with Notifer daily working for NE Floridas probably only Notifier dealer. Your reset issues were cause by a quirk of the Notifer system. If a certain device set off the alarm it needs to communicate with that same device before resetting. Otherwise you get what happened to you it just goes back into alarm. What you should have done was reset with the garage devices still there then swap back. It may also be the reason why certain devices didn’t want to go into alarm, I’ve run into it before sometimes the panel doesn’t like multiple alarms at once. So it usually good to reset after every few alarms and redo any devices that may have been acting up. But also could have been the protocol I personally don’t have much experience mixing devices on systems only mixing devices of different generations. Like mixing Clip Scan and Flash Scan devices.
Having the notifier panel protecting both buildings would be nice and more convenient. The only thing I would suggest is with the CO system in the garage. Maybe you can have that yellow supervisory chime strobe connected to the CO system somehow.
As someone who currently works in the field, the way I see it is that while yes it’s an option that could be done if desired, the problem I see with integrating the garage into the Notifier system falls into two main issues: Current design and current functionality. What I mean by current design is that, like you said, both systems were built seperate from the ground up and were designed with being seperate as that fulfilled the need that the systems were supposed to fulfill. Going into current functionality, both systems work as is and currently provide adequate protection and do the job just fine even if they are separate. A very recent example I’ve seen in the field was when I was programming two different ES-50X systems in two different buildings. Could they have used a bigger panel? Yes. But does it work just fine as is where it was spec’d for two seperate systems for each building and does it fulfill the need for a functional fire system? Yes.
@@nics-systems-electric i agree it would be interesting, and it was interesting to watch. I never thought that firelite devices could run flashscan. I thought it would only work on clip.
In general, I've seen things are pretty interchangeable between Honeywell's brands so long as the panels aren't in CLIP. Obviously not listed for that, so obligatory "don't do this on a real system" but works fine on hobby / test systems most of the time! :)
If it didn't break your house system it would kind of be cool for it to have 2 seperate zones (on 1 pannel) that could go into alarm but would be annoying to silence or reset in the garage.
0:58 NFS-320 has one Signaling Line Circuit (SLC) that supports up to 159 detectors and 159 modules; NFS2-640 also has one Signaling Line Circuit (SLC) but is expandable to two SLCs that supports up to a total of 636 devices. These FACPs can be networked with other FACPs in the Onyx series.
13:38 good old magnet fire, very difficult to detect. Nic if you got the almond colored detectors, it might work. Those are backwards compatible for the Clip protocol which is more similar to the flash scan modules are backwards compatible 15:11
If you do want to, I recommend doing a NAC Booster Panel and a ISO-6 card if you are planning on completely taking it down In short, Yes. I do hope that 2 systems can just be 1 huge system.
I don't know if I would actually need the ISO-6 one standard module would probably do it. If I put the booster panel in the garage and activated it with SLC then I would only need two wires for the whole thing.
@@WNYEAS sounds like you mean to put that in the actual garage building. The conventional zones don't need to be isolated as they are conventional. The generator building probably should be. It's a class A loop out there so that complicates things a little more.
Fire-Lite devices will not autoprogram, so you’ll need to manually add them with Verifire Tools. Also, Notifier Onyx panels do not like Fire-Lite detectors. All Fire-Lite modules should work just fine on flashscan only. You will have to replace the Fire-Lite detectors with all Notifier. The Gamewell monitor module and Honeywell TC dual monitor module (inside the generator building) from the garage system will get found in auto programming and will work on flashscan just fine. But yeah, all Firelite modules will have to be manually added in with Verifire Tools cause they will not get found at all in auto programming. I learned all this on my NFS2-640. And never T-tap the SLC without a fault isolator module. You should put another fault isolator module on the system if you’re gonna tie the garage SLC devices into the house system.
You may have some serious resistance issues in your line. Also, SLC loops do not like T-taps; I've seen this cause many issues in the past. My old middle school system has an FCI E3 system, and it had similar symptoms to what you're seeing not long after it was installed. Removing all T-taps resolved most of the SLC polling issues.
The SLC can go thousands of feet. The system is already essentially T tapped as every isolator is branching the SLC off from the one non-isolated SLC. It would just be Dunn the same way out to the garage building if that's what is going to happen.
You could still technically get away without a booster panel as you can use the panel in the garage as a NAC extender with the two supervisory conductors in the cable that goes under the garden then still make use of the door holder and the 4 NACs in the fire light panel.
@@nics-systems-electric Still an interesting experiment anyway. Here in the UK all panels of different manufactures all support there own brand of addressable devices but also apollo and Hochiki devices. We also have addressable sounders on pretty much every addressable system but they are more universal meaning that literally manual station is activated the same way by pressing in the middle of the unit then it is permanently activated unless it is a resettable element. Fire alarms are confusing and unusual over here. a little bit like the ones on the cruise in the first cruise ship video on this channel.
if you watched an older video he did that but if you didnt reset the panels in time like if u reset the notifier panel while its resetting u have to reset the firelite panel when its resetting or else the system will reactivate
i have a question about a pull station. so i was looking at notifier devices and i saw a pull station and it said NBG-12LR. i was wondering if it was a conventional pull station or a addressable one. The reason why i ask is because i want to make a conventional fire alarm board.
You can typically tell if it has the nob to set the address. Conventional will not have them. Some devices you program with a tool like seimens. But most will have the 2 nobs one will be for the "tens" and the other will say (ones) usually it's an easy way to tell.
@nics-systems-electric Actually, in the garge for the triggering the generator, the fuse is actually better to have than a switch and there's a good reason, because you saw the damage at a family friends house or whatever when the 1440 V main went onto the neutral for the house, well by having the garge on a fuse like that for triggering the generator you can actually have the fuse work as an emergency power cut off so that should you have a similar situation your garge willn't be damaged as badly since the fuse will blow cutting power to the garge which will actually for the most part isolate the power, in fact actually fusing each of the different wires with a fuse will help prevent any damage as the fuse will blow and trigger the generator to run and the garge lose main power so in short keep the fuse for triggering the generator and wire the mains power for the garge to go through a fuse for 120 V since a US outlet like the ones in yout Hawaii trip only support 120 V output and you have to get a special outlet for 240 V output, However check with the power company to confirm that this is the case before making that assumption
I really don't think it would actually help. 14,400 V is way more than anything in there is designed for. Even if fuses/breakers/switches are open 14,400 can jump any of those gaps just fine. It also came in on the neutral so there's really nothing you can do to protect against that.
The interrupting rating on that little supplementary fuse would not be sufficient for that 14,400v fault. Your main breaker in the garage and that for protecting the garage feeder may be more suitable. Id recommend something like a fingersafe fuseholder so its easy to disconnect the fuse so it doesnt fall and maybe break.
Can the Notifier NFS-320C can have 2 Partitions because you don't want the Fire alarm to sound in the Garage and House. And also you would have to add another announciator in the Garage and Remove the Garage Fire Alarm Indicator in the Downstairs Hallway since it's not compliant to have mixed signals
Im only commenting this right now and not watching it yet, don't know if you said it yet but if you set off a detector in the garage, it will make unnecessary noises in the house. That's why you have the supervisory.
Hey Nick just a quick question is it possible to add the fire alarm panel to the dsc power series alarm system and have it programmed as a fire zone so when the fire alarm system activates it also trips the dsc alarm system ?
@@Aliwff I don't really understand what you mean. It won't have any effect on power outages or how the systems operate. The garage has a generator which starts automatically.
yea and? nic has tons of subs and they might have their notifications on when nic posts a new video besides he has like over 30k people subscribed to him that half might get the notification. why are you surprised?
This makes me think of the unique setup my dorm complex had. Each building had its own panel but the community center building’s panel would monitor all of the dorm buildings and if a dorm building went into alarm, the panel in the community center alongside its annunciator would show alarm while not sounding the alarms in the community center. It was really interesting.
Really neat seeing a proper video on this. As far as I understand, most of the incompatibility is entirely arbitrary. In every poll each device responds with a 5 bit manufacturer ID, and the panel decides what to do with it. Some panels ignore the device like it doesn't work, others like my 5700 show a "wrong type" trouble, and some do not care and will talk to almost any brand. Recently new System Sensor SS series smokes were released that work with both Firelite ES and Silent Knight Intielliknight 6000 series panels with just a firmware update. They're touted as saving shelf space and reducing complexity for installers, when Honeywell / Pittway INTENTIONALLY created this problem in the first place. It's infuriating!
It's absolutely frustrating. I doubt there is anything more to it than software locks on these devices. I understand partially why it's done to keep compatibility lists from getting too crazy but it would be nice if those could be updated. As well as the device is listed to work on more systems. But they've created quite the situation that would be quite some work I would assume to reverse.
@@nics-systems-electric it’s like the house is giving you the middle finger after what you did to it
@@stampynate0007 yes
I work with Notifer daily working for NE Floridas probably only Notifier dealer.
Your reset issues were cause by a quirk of the Notifer system. If a certain device set off the alarm it needs to communicate with that same device before resetting. Otherwise you get what happened to you it just goes back into alarm. What you should have done was reset with the garage devices still there then swap back. It may also be the reason why certain devices didn’t want to go into alarm, I’ve run into it before sometimes the panel doesn’t like multiple alarms at once. So it usually good to reset after every few alarms and redo any devices that may have been acting up. But also could have been the protocol I personally don’t have much experience mixing devices on systems only mixing devices of different generations. Like mixing Clip Scan and Flash Scan devices.
Gotcha thanks for the comment definitely a weird quirk for sure. But interesting to know that is a situation that can come up.
Having the notifier panel protecting both buildings would be nice and more convenient. The only thing I would suggest is with the CO system in the garage. Maybe you can have that yellow supervisory chime strobe connected to the CO system somehow.
That should be on a NAC Booster Panel.
Interesting that some of the devices work and some dont, but like that you tried to do one panel 😊, nice video Nic 😉
To make it easy, just put annunciator out in the garage and then you have the main panel in the house and the nun theater out in the garage
As someone who currently works in the field, the way I see it is that while yes it’s an option that could be done if desired, the problem I see with integrating the garage into the Notifier system falls into two main issues: Current design and current functionality. What I mean by current design is that, like you said, both systems were built seperate from the ground up and were designed with being seperate as that fulfilled the need that the systems were supposed to fulfill. Going into current functionality, both systems work as is and currently provide adequate protection and do the job just fine even if they are separate. A very recent example I’ve seen in the field was when I was programming two different ES-50X systems in two different buildings. Could they have used a bigger panel? Yes. But does it work just fine as is where it was spec’d for two seperate systems for each building and does it fulfill the need for a functional fire system? Yes.
Yes it does currently work fine it just would be an interesting concept and provide some content
@@nics-systems-electric i agree it would be interesting, and it was interesting to watch. I never thought that firelite devices could run flashscan. I thought it would only work on clip.
@@achannelwithnopurpose1977 the older devices will run clip but most of the new detectors will only run the modern protocol litespeed.
In general, I've seen things are pretty interchangeable between Honeywell's brands so long as the panels aren't in CLIP. Obviously not listed for that, so obligatory "don't do this on a real system" but works fine on hobby / test systems most of the time! :)
Im jealous of your weather. Here in alabama its like 84 degree's fahrenheit during the day..
Ohhhhhhh man.... I see a 5 vid series coming up. 2 for physical work, and 3 for programming. Shit man, good luck.
"if we go take a look in the heuse..."
He should replace it with a kidde VS4
🤣🤣
Kitty?
No kidde its a fire alarm company @IraEllieMichalares
@@CmasterCXXVEw
If it didn't break your house system it would kind of be cool for it to have 2 seperate zones (on 1 pannel) that could go into alarm but would be annoying to silence or reset in the garage.
0:58 NFS-320 has one Signaling Line Circuit (SLC) that supports up to 159 detectors and 159 modules; NFS2-640 also has one Signaling Line Circuit (SLC) but is expandable to two SLCs that supports up to a total of 636 devices. These FACPs can be networked with other FACPs in the Onyx series.
Yes that's right
13:38 good old magnet fire, very difficult to detect. Nic if you got the almond colored detectors, it might work. Those are backwards compatible for the Clip protocol which is more similar to the flash scan modules are backwards compatible 15:11
If you do want to, I recommend doing a NAC Booster Panel and a ISO-6 card if you are planning on completely taking it down
In short, Yes. I do hope that 2 systems can just be 1 huge system.
I don't know if I would actually need the ISO-6 one standard module would probably do it. If I put the booster panel in the garage and activated it with SLC then I would only need two wires for the whole thing.
@@nics-systems-electric I did that in accordance with the Generator Building, the Tower, and the Shed. But you do you.
@@WNYEAS sounds like you mean to put that in the actual garage building. The conventional zones don't need to be isolated as they are conventional. The generator building probably should be. It's a class A loop out there so that complicates things a little more.
@@nics-systems-electric I meant that.
Fire-Lite devices will not autoprogram, so you’ll need to manually add them with Verifire Tools. Also, Notifier Onyx panels do not like Fire-Lite detectors. All Fire-Lite modules should work just fine on flashscan only. You will have to replace the Fire-Lite detectors with all Notifier. The Gamewell monitor module and Honeywell TC dual monitor module (inside the generator building) from the garage system will get found in auto programming and will work on flashscan just fine. But yeah, all Firelite modules will have to be manually added in with Verifire Tools cause they will not get found at all in auto programming. I learned all this on my NFS2-640. And never T-tap the SLC without a fault isolator module. You should put another fault isolator module on the system if you’re gonna tie the garage SLC devices into the house system.
You may have some serious resistance issues in your line. Also, SLC loops do not like T-taps; I've seen this cause many issues in the past. My old middle school system has an FCI E3 system, and it had similar symptoms to what you're seeing not long after it was installed. Removing all T-taps resolved most of the SLC polling issues.
The SLC can go thousands of feet. The system is already essentially T tapped as every isolator is branching the SLC off from the one non-isolated SLC. It would just be Dunn the same way out to the garage building if that's what is going to happen.
Where did you get the Notifier NFS-320C fire alarm panel
That looks kinda cool
It was given to me from a company as it had a broken USB port.
@nics-systems-electric ah ok then
@@nics-systems-electrichey at least you dident spend alot of money eh
You could still technically get away without a booster panel as you can use the panel in the garage as a NAC extender with the two supervisory conductors in the cable that goes under the garden then still make use of the door holder and the 4 NACs in the fire light panel.
I'd just use what used to be the chime strobe
@@nics-systems-electric True but it was just a little thought
@@nics-systems-electric Still an interesting experiment anyway. Here in the UK all panels of different manufactures all support there own brand of addressable devices but also apollo and Hochiki devices. We also have addressable sounders on pretty much every addressable system but they are more universal meaning that literally manual station is activated the same way by pressing in the middle of the unit then it is permanently activated unless it is a resettable element. Fire alarms are confusing and unusual over here. a little bit like the ones on the cruise in the first cruise ship video on this channel.
UK fire alarms as a whole would be good as a video topic!
In my opinion, I think he should He could link the two buildings together thats in my opinion
if you watched an older video he did that but if you didnt reset the panels in time like if u reset the notifier panel while its resetting u have to reset the firelite panel when its resetting or else the system will reactivate
I havent watched yet, but I bet you're doing this for long term stability/maintainability?
it was temp it looks like
i have a question about a pull station. so i was looking at notifier devices and i saw a pull station and it said NBG-12LR. i was wondering if it was a conventional pull station or a addressable one. The reason why i ask is because i want to make a conventional fire alarm board.
the nbg12lr is conventional
@@carrierandnotifierfan What about a NBG-WL. is it conventional
@@McNuggets-e2507its an wireless adressable
You can typically tell if it has the nob to set the address. Conventional will not have them. Some devices you program with a tool like seimens. But most will have the 2 nobs one will be for the "tens" and the other will say (ones) usually it's an easy way to tell.
@@wrap13579 the reason i ask is because im looking on amazon and i cant see the inside
Might be a little extreme but put a notifier panel in the garage and network the two together.
Sounds expensive to buy another panel and network cards. I don't have any experience programming those.
They are here in the US but they also work with Canada
6:50 Can you please make another durability testing video? 😃
interesting. by the way, when you were programming the under stair detector, you misspelled storage for "storge".
Yeah I'm a little special
@@nics-systems-electric haha
He's abbreviating
Interesting video
Following your Aviation IG now 👍🏼
Hell yeah thanks for the support man
@ Always Nic
@nics-systems-electric Actually, in the garge for the triggering the generator, the fuse is actually better to have than a switch and there's a good reason, because you saw the damage at a family friends house or whatever when the 1440 V main went onto the neutral for the house, well by having the garge on a fuse like that for triggering the generator you can actually have the fuse work as an emergency power cut off so that should you have a similar situation your garge willn't be damaged as badly since the fuse will blow cutting power to the garge which will actually for the most part isolate the power, in fact actually fusing each of the different wires with a fuse will help prevent any damage as the fuse will blow and trigger the generator to run and the garge lose main power so in short keep the fuse for triggering the generator and wire the mains power for the garge to go through a fuse for 120 V since a US outlet like the ones in yout Hawaii trip only support 120 V output and you have to get a special outlet for 240 V output, However check with the power company to confirm that this is the case before making that assumption
I really don't think it would actually help. 14,400 V is way more than anything in there is designed for. Even if fuses/breakers/switches are open 14,400 can jump any of those gaps just fine. It also came in on the neutral so there's really nothing you can do to protect against that.
The interrupting rating on that little supplementary fuse would not be sufficient for that 14,400v fault. Your main breaker in the garage and that for protecting the garage feeder may be more suitable. Id recommend something like a fingersafe fuseholder so its easy to disconnect the fuse so it doesnt fall and maybe break.
So, is that the plan then? Deleting the panel in the Garage and merge everything it to the main building's fire alarm system?
I'm not too sure there aren't really any plans right now just thoughts and experiments.
What made you choose notifier over something like a Simplex 4100ES
he does not like simplex he said
Oh good god this will be something…
If you need any modules or detectors, I can hook you up with a person that I’ve been working with. That’s very reliable.
Can the Notifier NFS-320C can have 2 Partitions because you don't want the Fire alarm to sound in the Garage and House. And also you would have to add another announciator in the Garage and Remove the Garage Fire Alarm Indicator in the Downstairs Hallway since it's not compliant to have mixed signals
Yes I believe you could correlate the Bell circuits by zoning them.
Yes, get another 320 and put it in the garage, then link em with fiber lol
Im only commenting this right now and not watching it yet, don't know if you said it yet but if you set off a detector in the garage, it will make unnecessary noises in the house. That's why you have the supervisory.
Unless I was to do some different zoning and programming to the nac's
I have an idea, run both systems under the garage panel if it has enough space.
No that panel is less capable
If the notifier panel has the capability, why not network 2 panels together?
That would require me to spend thousands of dollars on a new panel and network cards and the hassle of programming it.
Hey Nick just a quick question is it possible to add the fire alarm panel to the dsc power series alarm system and have it programmed as a fire zone so when the fire alarm system activates it also trips the dsc alarm system ?
Yes, those DSC neo systems have that capability.
@ That is great
Just to let you know, the house is a building. It’s called a residential building. Have a good day
Yes the house is a building too
These invalid reply troubles are so infuriating and people wonder why I prefer Gamewell and Silent Knight…
But you need it to do December testing in the garage
Not if the system's gone lol
What happens when the power is out how are you going to turn the power on I like the garage panel beeping when the power is off
@@Aliwff I don't really understand what you mean. It won't have any effect on power outages or how the systems operate. The garage has a generator which starts automatically.
Ok and the generator is fine
So fire lite is lower quality than the notifier alarms in the house?
Yes
Which is more expensive?
not the MS 9200 UDLS😢
activate the shed fire alarm to activate bc it would be good for all ur viewers and it would bc it was a long time u activated shed fire alarm
Wtf are you saying??
wdym a long time????? he literally posted a fire alarm test
@ oh i missed it then
RIP MS 9200UDLS System 2021-2024
What happens when the CM alarms go off?
It sets off a control module which is zoned to only go off when the CO detector goes off
Aw man
Yeaaaaaa
Notifier logo is your youtube profile picture
19:36 RELAY!!!! In all seriousness though, I think the troubles were because you did an auto program..
Another comment has said what the issue is that it is a quirk with notifier systems they explained it very well if you were interested.
@nics-systems-electric Oooh okay cool lol
If you replace the fire lite system I will miss it's long beeps
I would never be able to do this ;-;
Wait what?! 😳
why dont you make a vid of you turn on every light like security trouble fire alarm superviszory and point dischage andn manyy more
It is illegal to have 2 buildings to share 1 panel
No it's not.
“Same shit”
What happened to your old videos the oldest video I can find is you crashing lago trans
That is my oldest video many other ones have been made private or removed
@ why
dont
Nooo
13 comment had to under 30 mins
yea and? nic has tons of subs and they might have their notifications on when nic posts a new video besides he has like over 30k people subscribed to him that half might get the notification. why are you surprised?
No
😂😂
Were here in 1 MINUTE?
Pls no but if you are going to take it out can i have it
NO😂
he not gonna take it out hopefully and he not going to give no nothing to you
At the very least he would sell it on his ebay site.
@@FI-TECH-250or he would probably also use it for a demo system
6:50 Can you please make another durability testing video? 😃
No
6:50 Can you please make another durability testing video? 😃
That was the SLC being pulled.
@ I farted in my grandfather‘s breathing machine and you got black lungs
@@nics-systems-electric @ I farted in my grandfather‘s breathing machine and you got black lungs
@@nics-systems-electric @ I farted in my grandfather‘s breathing machine and he got black lungs
@@Andsometimesgamingwhy are tu doing this weardass meme?