A Unique Blend of Derivative Elements: Final Fantasy XVI [No Spoilers] | Stiles' Reviews
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- The last time a new mainline Final Fantasy came out, Stiles tore it a new one. Will Final Fantasy XVI meet the same fate?
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Great to see another one of your reviews again and this was FANTASTIC even if I find FF16 to be utterly repellent to me. Every element goes strongly against my personal taste and has in turn made me adore Star Ocean: The Divine Force more than any sane individual should because that game is a mess (and also because I hate every other Star Ocean except that one). BUT this was a really interesting and fair breakdown.
I will say the discussion on it being an action RPG is also because so many other RPGs have gone down the action route and there seems to be an active hatred of turn based combat with people claiming turn based combat only existed due to system limitations and not as an intentional game design choice and thus is archaic or at the very least "retro" so it makes sense that all turn based RPGs are low budget indie pixel art games and not AAA titles. It also doesn't help that SquareEnix has been actively INSULTING turn based RPG fans for years such as with FF15's awful combat being because they doubted the player's reflexes or FF7R calling its auto-battle mode "Classic Mode" or whatever it was. You combine that with the director outright saying he didn't want his game to be viewed as a JRPG and well...is it one?
But the bigger problem is the lack of party dynamics which is what kills the game for me. The more I think about it, the more important party dynamics are to RPGs and that's because of their turn-based nature. One of the great advantages of turn-based combat is that you can control your entire party and thus it's sort of baked into the genre. I outright hate turn-based games with only one character with the sole exception of Pokemon. Having a single character makes a LOT more sense in an action RPG but at the same time it feels like I lose so much too. A part of this is because I always want to play as someone other than the main character and that the variety of characters is very important. I got into RPGs because of my sister and she got into RPGs because she was looking for games with good female characters and RPGs were a sure thing. Every one of them had at least one female character, usually more, and since they're in the party they are playable and important to the story. So it's a shame the last two Final Fantasy titles were kind of a sausage fest. But also the fact that the lack of playable party members has been a problem since FF13. It's the worst thing about that game, the worst thing about 15, and while 16 looks solid I can't help but view the lack of playable characters as a downgrade.
Beyond that the game just seems too Western. Especially the dark, dour, overly realistic world that is sorely lacking in Fantasy. This really hit me with that scene where it's late at night and everyone is drinking during the flashback. The lack of light in that scene was uncomfortable and I thought "Well that's what it must have been like in those days" only to then say "Wait what do I mean 'Those Days'?! This is Final Fantasy! Where are the magic lanterns! Where's the FANTASY! This is way too realistic for my taste!". Kept feeling like The Witcher but with prettier faces.
And yeah the dark dour tone is at least fresh for Final Fantasy I guess but man am I sick of it. Also the ONE thing you didn't touch on was the soundtrack which I think may be the worst in the series. I've always had a beef with Western games and how they barely have any music and when they do it's either bombastic orchestra used only for fights or deep in the background atmospheric cinema music and FF16 seems to do the later. It's nice on it's own and it punctuates the action but doesn't seem like anything I'd actively listen to.
I could go on an entire rant about how much I miss classic Final Fantasy iconography and how frustrating it is that SquareEnix can only get it right when making spin-off titles like Chocobo Tales and Mario Sports Mix and then when they try to make an RPG with those elements they utterly bungle it on every level such as with Four Heroes of Light but...well that's a good enough summary.
I'm just an old turbo-weeb who wishes his games were more anime and worries that even Japan can't make games anime enough anymore. Hence why Star Ocean 6 is a shelter in the storm for me. Colorful, happy, loveable cast of exceedingly anime characters with multiple playable characters and two different protagonist routes depending on if you prefer Sci-Fi or Fantasy with fun bombastic music and flashy action and even mild dating sim elements! Shame the company ran out of money and nearly bankrupted themselves resulting in a tiny world and flagrantly rushed end game where the Evil Empire is literally two blocks away from the Good Kingdom.
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...okay sorry I had to get that out of my system. Umm...please enjoy whatever algorithmic boost this comment causes? *shrug*
Wooo that there is a tome of a comment haha. Thank you so much for liking commenting so thoroughly, I really enjoyed reading it.
It's very interesting to me that you brought up the whole turn-based being archaic argument, because that too was a discussion being had when FFXV released. I actually talked about it IN that mentioned FFXV video in almost the exact same terms you just did. Also turn-based games are having a resurgence right now thanks to indies, crpgs, and Square themselves.
Hard agree on that party dynamics issue. That to me felt like I would've been judging the game for what it isn't though, rather than what it is. FFXVI was imo a decent game, but it is not at all the first thing that would come to mind if I were in the mood for an RPG.
I also agree on the WRPG comparison! In an earlier draft I actually had that as my thesis, that FFXVI was a combination of JRPG and WRPG like no other game I'd played... but then the whole 'JRPG is insulting!' b.s. reared it's ugly head at EXACTLY the wrong time, so it didn't feel safe using it... plus I liked my new direction better.
I didn't discuss the presentation because I felt it bogged down the script... and people can see what a game looks and sounds like by watching the video, and then they can form their own opinions based on that. I'm not good at discussing presentation, and I'm often bored when writing it, so I feel like people are probably bored watching me talk about it. Maybe I'm wrong, that's just where my current mindset is. Hence me not discussing the OST. That said, I enjoyed a LOT of the game's music, though I did feel it relied a bit too heavily on past OST's for inspiration. Soken... is great at making music that sounds good, and that sounds Reminiscent of Uematsu, but After years of listening to his work, I've still yet to get a feel for his personal style, I'm not sure if he even has one.
Hope you find this reply a satisfying read, and once again, thanks for your comment! I totally get why and how people would be disappointed by FFXVI, I think the only reason I was finally able to enjoy it is because I've come to realize that Final Fantasy's only identity, is its complete lack of identity.
The reason why there's an incorporation of the OG's overworld's melody in that track is because the main villain's leitmotif is based on said theme. Not sure why this particular villain's musical identity is derived from that specific piece, but it's the reason why you hear its melody in a number of pieces associated with him throughout the score.
I somehow didnt notice this, thanks for pointing it out! I still don't feel like it fits... goes into the 'references for references sake' bit that i argued early on. Still enjoyed the game though, obviously xD
Really nice video! I'm probably playing as soon as it is on PC.
Thank you. I'm not a big fan of the timed exclusiveness. I hope you enjoy the game when it does come around to PC though. Frankly I'm not sure my PC could even run it xD
I’m super happy to see a review of XVI from you! Thanks for giving us another awesome video! ❤
Thank you for watching and commenting. Makes this nightmare of a project feel slightly more worth it xD
finally some review focusing on critique/design and reasons that made gameplay felt certain way. Looks like my new fave after skillup :D
Thank you very much for the compliment. I'm quite proud of this video, an saddened by the fact it didn't perform very well (even by my small channel's standards). I'm guessing it is due to oversaturation of coverage for the game around launch.
This was a really well done review. And I don't even say that often. You handled everything with the apprioate amount of naunce and you went indepth enough on how you felt on the game without going to spoilers.
I am probably going to play the game myself soon and see what I think. I am not a big fan of the series or RPGs in general but this game seems intriguing and I don't give a shit about Game of Thrones. The stimulating game feel, the voice acting and the dark fantasy setting are enough for me to give the game a look. The fact that it's not a "true" FF game is what is drawing me to it. All though the "true" game debate with any series pisses me off to no end.
All though the "it's easy" complaint I generally don't always trust since I have played games that are said to be easy but had a hard time with. Kingdom Hearts 3 being a great example, that game especially towards the end with a final level that refuses to end was really hard and then I got to one boss and he kept one shotting me very quickly and I got so pissed at the game and gave up. Everyone kept calling it easy but I couldn't even beat it.
I'll still check this game due to how appealing it seems to be on the surface and your review was pretty informative. I'll probably still skip the side quests since they sound that bad.
I love your review with FFXVI. One of best reviews of the game so far I seen. As someone who had a few issues and some frustrating moments with the game myself. I really enjoy this game and it's an experience I haven't saw in a final fantasy game ever. If Baldurs gate or sea of stars didn't come out this year, this would've been my favorite game this year. Love or hate, this games music is the best thing about it.
Thank you very much, your compliment made my day. I'm working on a BG3 video right now, and haven't had the chance to play Sea of Stars yet, but I'm looking forward to getting around to it at some point.
@@StilesReviews sea of stars is so good. And I can't wait on the baldur gate 3 video btw too.
Another excellent review! I don't expect to see a more in-depth and accurate analysis anywhere on TH-cam, at least not one without major story spoilers included. You remain a master of your craft. I only wish the game wasn't a PS5 exclusive and I could've played it on PC already to give some better feedback. I'll try to remember this video exists once I've played the game on PC... 5 years from now... XD
You flatter me sir, thank you very much ws usual for watching and commenting.
Amazing video!! I've felt iffy about XVI ever since it's pre release hype but now that it all settled down I gotta be real I really want to play it someday. Could never beat Type-0 for me though!!!
As usual, thanks for watching and commenting Skye. This game is totally better than Type-0 though >.>
I haven't played Type-0 for about 10 years actually. That one is gonna be interesting. Remember liking the gameplay but can remember absolutely nothing about the forgettable story.
@@StilesReviews been about a year since I completed Type-0 and I swear to god I must be the only person alive who actually loved the story, like rewatching the ending cutscene has aided me reliably whenever I just needed to cry
Great video mate. Really nice to see the things you talked about. Ive been curious about the game but I'm not a fan of the combat, so your video really made me want to watch a video of all the cutscenes. Cheers mate
Thanks for watching and commenting! I'm not sure if it's a good thing that I convinced you to watch the cutscenes instead of playing the game yourself... You are stealing the sandwiches right out of SquareEnix's mouth you know!! xD
Hope you enjoy yourself.
Well-made review! So we have a singular "chosen one" handsome noble, a set of uncontrollable party members, a childhood love interest, and a fancy transportation vehicle, where the noble's dad gets killed early on and is lead around by an omnipotent, omnipresent villain who wants them to get stronger until such time as they are arbitrarily powerful enough to kill the villain, though there will be at least one multi-year timeskip involved. Which game did I describe? I hated XV and XVI copied it far more than I'd like. For many of the reasons you described, I felt like this was an extremely well-made but poorly-designed game, especially in terms of gameplay variety versus the length of the game.
Oh my, you're here!
Only barely, but I appreciate the enthusiasm haha.
Well, at least you matured, and acknowledge Final Fantasy XV as a Final Fantasy game, leaving your personal feelings on it at the door when answering the silly "Is it a Final Fantasy game?" question that will never cease. Your opinions on any entry should raise completely different questions.
The Final Fantasy XVI team have considered making DLC, though. So players have more to look forward to.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
Yeah the Dev team did a 180 on that REAL quick. Said before launch their were no plans for DLC, as soon as the game shipped they decided, "Wait, we can make more money with DLC!" Kind of irritating to me personally, not everything needs to be milked, but hey, that's the game market today.
Which part of the TH-cam did I accidently stumble upon today?
Wow there is a lot here to digest. I enjoyed your broad spectrum of opinions, but personally I feel a bit more on the other side of the field( and I bought a PS5 to play it). I think the story was a bit weak and a lot of times I feel it dropped the ball. The last 2 crystals should have been swapped (I know why they are there, but it would have played out a lot better with that change).
The slave theme, I felt, didn't work as well as they hoped and I attribute this to the fact of magic. You cannot say that people with magic are a oppressed class. We see in one of the side quest how easy it was for him to kill someone with it. A lot of times I feel the bearers were not given a ounce of thought and they wanted to push a mana battery narrative, but they forget how much people have a will to live. You have dominants who are treated completely differently from bearers. It's jarring to say the least, because it's not consistent. I also think it was trying to tell two (or more) stories at one time why it's theme feels a bit lacking.
I agree with you about Byron he was hands down the best character in this series. I disagree with you strongly about Jill, she's forgettable and a lot of times she doesn't contribute much to the narrative. Hell I think Torgal was a better character(and he was a very good boy). The villians... were all over the place and would have loved to see some of them change their ways or cause, but that requires a bit more grey and in this world it was heavily black and white. Might also be that I see so many clichés and just sigh.
I agree with you about the In media res, it made no sense and could have been easily cut. A few things could and should have been cut.
Thanks for watching and leaving such a detailed comment. Hope 'this part of youtube' didn't end up being a regretful one lol.
Obviously we disagree here, for example the 'these people are powerful, thus they cant be opressed' argument is an odd one to me, not to mention the power of influence, societal norms and so on having a strong effect on how people act. Of course some would get sick of it and run or fight... those that fought died or joined the hideaway, which the entire game was about.
Jill was quiet, which i think lead a lot of people to thinkong she was boring, and i can actually kind of see that, but i enjoyed her inclusion and thought it was nice to not have another 'girl boss' shoved down our throat. Different people can carry their strength in different ways.
Im sorry you bought a system for the game, definitely not good enough for thwt alone imo. To me it was a good game, but not a great one.
@@StilesReviews Ah don't feel bad, I was meaning to buy a PS5, my last PS was 2 so it's been a minute.
I think your mixing up quiet with boring and doll. I like quiet characters and they can be a nice ground factor. Lighting/Squall/Cloud were quiet but had a presence about them. They were also monosyllabic a lot of the time. She(Jill) wasn't fleshed out well, her entire arc felt rushed and it was kind of forgettable. She was there to motivate Clive and help move the story on. There were a lot of times where she had no opinion and honestly I forgot she was in the scene. I think window dressing is fitting. I get childhood friend thing it happens and her trauma played a big part in things, so it might have made her quieter, but a lot of times she really doesn't add anything. I could make jokes about Lunafreya here since you hate 15 XD. I could say Quistis in 8 showed how to balance quiet with smart and strong. Ashe in 12 was also more on the quiet side. Lulu in 10 was also quiet and strong and had a gentle side. Yuna also was a timid charachter as well.
So, let me reword this. They say a lot of bearers died, but it really does make me wonder how many fought, we never see any bearers fight on screen and we know that they can use magic. We know that a bearer can kill a person (again a side quest shows(tells) you it.). So my question is how come bearers aren't really the rulers of the world they have magic? A better story would have been trying to depower them or something. Do we hate bearers? If so why do we worship dominants and not force them via iron kingdom. Do we like them? Why do we treat bearers the way we do? The only difference between a dominants and bearer is how much Aether they have access to really. How did we start enslaving people who have MAGIC. Suspension of disbelief is a thing, I get it but it can only do so much when you tackle harder issues. I know it states those who rose up died, but it leaves me wondering how did they die. A lot of off screen story telling. And making connections to fleeing and going to hide away/vineyard etc... doesn't help. We know 2/3(bearers) that were trained to kill, how come we don't see more assassins as bearers and those skills would be beyond what a non magic person can do. Also what is the percentage of population of bearers? 1% 5% 20%, if you keep using abusing and killing a resource it would deplete and if it's been going on for dozens and hundreds of years I doubt there would be a lot of them left.
Also Kudos to Dion shoutout.
And I did laugh at the gravel voices.
Thanks for the reply to my comment. And I don't mind the chat/debates having different opinions is great.
When it comes to SE's reason why there's so little racial diversity and it being "the best choice they could've done," I'm inclined to disagree. Because they didn't need to write a story about slavery. It is not needed. *Especially* in a story about white people, and without BIPOC on the writing team.
All that said, sorry to frontload with the negatives, I really enjoyed the video and your take on it.
Thanks for watching and commenting. I don't really know how to reply to this though. No story 'needs' to be written. Japan itself has a history of slavery, so it is not as if it is 'out of their lane' to discuss it. Telling a group of people that they can't discuss a topic they themselves have been on both the Giving and Receiving end of seems a bit gatekeepy to me. I still feel it was much safer to remove the racial component than to exploit it. And not to put to fine a point on it, but look up the Barbary Slave Trade. It was, admittedly, only about 10% the size of the African slave trade, but 1 million people is nothing to sneeze at. If we really want to trash them for the 'whiteness' element, I'd like to point out that this game was never meant to be an 'American' analogue, but a European one by the devs own words, and in that regard, this would be fairly accurate. Unless we wanted to demonize the Berbers, whom, at the time at least, were considered 'not White'. They would now be referred to as North African Muslims, I'm not going to jump into those waters when it comes to whether that is 'white' nowadays, as I have no idea, but opening up that bit of historical accuracy would raise similar ethical questions as the BIPOC bit, I think, and there would still be no winners.
Seriously though, thank you for this comment. Even if you disagree, it is the type of conversation I'd love to be having more of on this channel, and having someone respectfully disagree with me is always welcome. I'm not trying to shut you down or insult you here, and I hope no one else does either. I would love for this to continue to remain respectful, but given this is the internet, I'm quite doubtful and a bit skittish.
You know White people were enslaved in the past as well right?
@@StilesReviews You're fine, no worries! And I get being skittish, there's a lot of unnecessary hate being thrown around on the web ;>.>
What I mean with "I don't think slavery as a narrative needs to be written" is that it's been done to death. There's no depth to be gained by the inclusion of it other than "it's bad" or "oh, are we the bad ones?", particularly if the writers are too afraid to include racial elements that influenced the worst of it. And especially when the reason Yoshida gave is based on pseudo-history. Because Europe have been multicultural (or multi-ethnic?) for centuries, it's not a new phenomena, but that is unfortunately not common knowledge (bc white supremacy is a fuck 😩 (and I'm NOT calling YOU one, I promise ^_^;)). If you're interested then MedievalPOC on Tumblr and Twitter have done great work on showing how POC were depicted in most levels of society in medieval art and how it's been ignored because of what academics chose to prioritise and not (sometimes they were even cropped out of paintings in history books/texts).
And again, great video! Before watching, I had great disdain for the game because the things surrounding its development, like the "it's historically accurate to medieval Europe" bs, and Yoshida had said about the term JRPG, or... at least WHAT I THOUGHT HE SAID; "JRPG is an offensive term for what I wanna do," instead of "when JRPG first popped up 15 years ago it felt like an insult and westerners making fun of us". I just looked up what he actually said to make sure I had it right. I didn't. Anyway...
THANK YOU for the video. It made me unhate the game, even if I know it's not for me because of the lack of party mechanics and blahblahblah
Seems like you're just looking for a reason to complain. Don't get the feeling they could've done much to win you over.
I... what? I said I liked the game. Did you actually watch the whole video?