The players you describe, the hardcore if you will, for either coh 1 or coh 2, often get caught up with which one is "better" and don't see what both bring to the table. Coh1 1. Great match and tech pacing 2. All strats more or less is viable 3. Units and commanders well though out and balance out with each other. factions coh2. 1. True sight, smoke coverage, behind bushes etc. 2. True weather (snow) 3. Lots of choices in terms of commaders and sub commanders. Now with coh 1 there is still the "cheese" like free riflemen with a 180 causalities clearance center, or the Wehrmacht can lock down entire section of the map with a MG because your troops can't bother to jump a wood fence that is 5 feet off the ground, however the problems with coh 2 are more pronounce. The "good" in coh2 is also questionable, lets take the "choice" option, yeah you have tons of commanders, most are either not viable because they only work in 2's 3's 4's or they don't' bring anything that you can use either to early or too late which leaves only a very few commanders to use. Pace and match progression both in terms of tech tree is also another huge problem for coh2, USAF is the best example of this problem mostly because they are force to a all Riflemen strat, sure they added a mortar in the last patch but by buying it you lose field presence which is a death sentence to the allied factions, so spam is the name of the game. Lets say you play a "smart" game and deploy a "early" Stuart or light vehicle, while smart players can take advantage of said vehicles the window between a light and a proper tank is too small to make a real difference which goes to show a problem with pacing, but it gets worse even if I did everything right and deploy a "early Sherman" by locking myself out of any other critical part of my own tech trees (L.T. OR CAPT) which grants me either suppression or in direct, that early Sherman isn't worth anything because the tank can't handle standard armor and the H.E. shells relied to heavily on RNG, so once again the USAF player is pigeon hole into a pair of Jacksons or scots. On the contrary a early light vehicle in coh1 makes the difference in the world and to top it off the US tree isn't as restrictive, by getting your SECOND building you have all the tools you need to customize your strategy.....Just like coh 3. I can go on and on about the problems with COH 2 but you get the general idea of what I mean, not to mention that the "UNIQUENESS" that coh 2 like Snow/blizzard system, the OKW cool concept of a starved German army needed to choose between ammo or fuel created very unique scenarios have been striped down to a "E SPORTS" friendly game play. Another great example of what went wrong from coh1 to coh2 and they are fixing in coh 3 again, is in coh 1 any squad the models are represented as individual dots (on the head) in each model to properly use the cover system, in coh 2 they are not because the whole squad is represented as one model....why does that matter...clumping, oh yeah now it makes sense with all those squad wipes huh? Coh 1 has its faults, I don't like pop count tied to the map control for example, but the more I play coh 2 I realize how much worse it's gotten. I would go as far as to say that in a lot of ways backwards. I was invited to both the ALPHA and the Mult Tech and seen the improvements first hand, I still have replays from both and I can actively go back and see the improvements (which I have, hell I got replays from COH ONLINE LOL) and I can tell you with out of doubt that COH 3 is far superior state now then COH2 was in its ALPHA/BETA state when it was released, I would argue far better then when it was released and patch a few times. COH 3 should of been the game we got when COH 2 was released. I have a theory that it took a sacrifice from relic to realize that if the foundation works (coh1) build on that to keep your base happy, I'm not saying not to go find more players, but don't build a game for audience that either doesn't exist or wouldn't be interested in the first place like modern media with wokeism. What sacrifice do I mean? Dawn of war 1 to Dawn of war 3, enough said. As far as war goes, it really is like MEN OF War where your troops sit in a bush and fire at range at each other until arty or Armor roles in and starts shooting again from a distance, its all just one giant wait until orders deal, that's great for realism but that is not gameplay and you will never capture that player base because of "realism", I play that game too and while I occasially like realism, its boring. Why go off on this tangent? Gameplay, matters just as much as realism and you need to find a balance, was the Panzer 4 a good tank? yes was it the god tier medium that is portrayed, no. COH 3, sadly unlike my other franchise DOW, is finally coming home. It had its rebellious stage and its finally realize what matters. I think the only people who are going to get a shock and struggle with the transition are players who joined in at coh2 and the coh1 player base can finally come home too. Cheers
@@Dake21 still play it, but lets also give credit where credit is due, Coh2 did a lot of amazing things, my hope is they combine what they learn over two games and make the ultimate coh
@@obi0914 We can hope CoH3 will be the ultimate combination of 1 and 2. A more cinematic camera in the campaign would be a good start, the first Omaha mission in CoH1 felt like Saving Private Ryan.
I'm a big fan of the original game, COH 2 was just ok. So yes, I'd love for COH 3 to be a direct upgrade to the first game. But we'll have to see. Graphically at least, even with the supposed fixes, both look more or less the same to my eyes despite the 17 years time difference. So I'm not holding my breath! But fingers crossed.
Couldn't agree more with your analysis that COH 2 kept getting worse and worse with all the balance patches. I remember when I first started COH 2 multiplayer as the wehrmacht and getting my ass handed to me over and over again by the soviet industry doctrine until I learned to counter it with assualt grens at the start and aggressively going after their infantry. Flavorful gameplay and doctrines that really shook up how you played like the osttruppen doctrine and elite troops got all their flavor and uniqueness gutted by balance patches and made unviable. Playing COH 2 today feels so bland compared to how it used to be. One of the reasons I hope to make the switch to COH 3 if the gameplay seems good despite the awful cartoonish graphics style.
@Harvey Nash 100%, it's not even optional these days, they need to give the modders all the tools they need day one, it'll only ever have a positive effect!
Game looks fun and interesting. After a long while I'm actually excited for a rts game. If Relic fails to balance and update the game, I'm sure modding community will do their best... like in so many other games.
@Toni_ I'm glad to hear your positivity! It's a shame we have to rely on the mod community as much as we do, but I'm glad they're there. Let's hope Relic up their game!
I think this is quiet an interesting video and there are quiet a few good points made. For me as a player that has played 2000+ hours of Company of Heroes 2, the biggest reason why i am looking forward to playing a new CoH is the setting, the units and the seeming variety in approaching each game differently. The sound and the graphics could be the same, i would still buy it and play it. It is after all my favourite rts series. Not because of the aforementioned, but the gameplay. Coh2 has gotten quiet stale over the last few years, so anything new is welcome, at least in my opinion. Regarding the mentioning and the comparisons between the Coh and the AoE franchise. I think those are bad. For one, both AoE games are still getting updates and are being developed, which is the opposite to CoH2, which has not gotten any updates in quiet a while. As such, any player that does want regular updates, new content and so on will switch eventually. Even your hairy long fingered friend. The other point is... AoE 4 is quiet a different game compared to AoE 2, played both of them and i think everybody can attest to that. It`s not just the graphics and the sounds and some zooming levels. The differences between both CoH games are rather minor tbh, i think that CoH3 has a way better base than CoH2 had at launch and therefore far more potential. As such i will buy it on release. And yes, CoH3 on release will have bugs and the balance will probably be a mess. After all, we had the CoH2 sound bug for 5 years or smth and i did play a lot in the 2v2 ladder when the heavy tank meta was at it's most popular (which was rather unfun). I am okay with that possibility, after all it is a franchise that i have enjoyed for thousands of hours regardless of these problems.
2000 hours is sh*t. you do realize that right?i seen enough players with over 5000 hours and still suck sht. your intelligence is not better, unfortunately
The thing is AoE has a way bigger fan base / player base so it will be successful regardless. It's enough for the AoE2 players to try a new game in the franchise and they are successful with the new title. With CoH there's a much smaller player base so they need to really make it good otherwise it can fail easily.
@@eygs493 That's a fair point, i agree that the ammount of hours somebody has played should not invalidate their feedback. Thank you for pointing that out. Can't say much about my intelligence i fear, i have never tried grading it using the number of hours played in CoH2.
@@IamDalv That's certainly true, the AoE fanbase has been going for 20+ years and they lived off AoE2 for most of that. CoH does not have that kind of loyalty, but i think that we have seen with CoH2 that each new CoH game is quiet good at aquiring new players. Some of the players from the previous game will move over too. And if people moved to release state CoH2, then i am not too worried about CoH3, since it alrady looks like a more solid game to me.
@@MrMobo1111 Thank you for your positive feedback and further comments. I'm always happy to venture an opinion as long as it sparks a conversation / debate and your comment is exactly the sort I was hoping for. I must confess I hadn't realised CoH2 would be receiving zero updates going forward, something I would have certainly included in the video if I had! Thank you
One of the main reasons that RTS pretty much died is a genre is the lack of innovation, sequels of different RTS franchises before used to make a big leap in graphics and physics but gameplay wise they have already been the same. They reached a point where they pretty much peaked, CnC 3 from 2007 looks great today and still plays great, same with SC 2 and CoH 2, there's little room for improvement sadly.
@Victorforce I agree wholeheartedly. I have to say that the sound design in AoE4 pleasantly surprised me, I think they really upped their game on that one. But ultimately you make a very interesting point, I suspect much of the reason players are disappointed with CoH3 is that we are so used to graphical leaps each time a new game is made, and actually that doesn't seem to be happening as often or as much in general, and even less so for RTS games.
Something they could do that I believe Gates of Hell, does but I've never played that game before so jot entirely sure, is they could make a mechanic that allows the player to take control of one of the units in the game. Like a tank for instance, that way you can be both commanding the battlefield and playing a part in it yourself.
@@sisigs4820 That's a very fun mechanic in both Ostfront and the Men of War series. Tanks or infantry, it's great! I did hope they might explore this, at least for the single player campaign, but they chose not to unfortunately.
@@sisigs4820 they tried it in CoH2 being able to direct the fire of certain squads and tanks in the campaign. It wasnt very good, but could be improved upon
Relic is not showing enough innovation and deliberately keeping the graphical fidelity bar too low. There are business reasons for this, and I hope it works out for them, but I can totally understand why many COH1/COH2 players look at what COH3 is offering and feel they already played it. I'm with them, and will wait on the side lines and see how things play out.
@@twiglets2 Downgrading everything regarding visuals to make the game possible for consoles also, and keeping the two versions (console and PC) uniform.
@@therustler30 Ah yes that makes sense. And I wonder if they have an eye on the mobile market too now? Presumably easier to do if the graphics are toned down.
@@therustler30 i dont think graphics are downgraded, but they are more scalable, and honestly, that benefits me because my machine is rapidly approaching obsolescense Besides, it might run on my steam deck
@@twiglets2 I also agree on for the studio they need to keep things playable at good framerates on somewhat older hardware that many people still use. I have a 12700cpu and 3090ti gpu gaming rig but most RTS or TBS players are not running that level of hardware for a PC. Honestly for most of my current gaming requirements my rig is way overkill for the games I am currently playing.
There is one small issue for me in this game. In COH2 or even in COH1, the debris of vehicles and other objects just stay in the map forever but in this game they seem to disappear after some time. I know this is a very very small thing but it just takes away the realism and ambience. Hope it gets fixed via mods.
@vivekantoni2134 Small things matter, and this represents the kind of detail players wish wasn't overlooked. I wonder if they did this to save on processing / graphical power, or to make it easier to port the game to mobile!
AOEIV has received a fair amount of updates, new civs , new landmarks and balance patches. It also has some of the best sound design i've ever heard when it cones to RTS games
Gotta say the sound design on AoE4 is insanely impressive. Which leaves me surprised at how CoH3 sound design is just a bit...boring! It's difficult to actually improve RTS games, but AoE4 smashed it with the sound design for sure.
Have they fixed the zoom out restrictions in AoE4 yet? I suppose I could re-install and take a look, but I played for about 4 hours and uninstalled due to that issue - haven't gone back to look.
OMG JUST REALIZED WHAT MADE COH1 SO MUCH BETTER THAN HIS OTHER TITLES. IT WAS TOTALLY THE LEVEL DESIGN . COH1 had a good cut for all his levels or almost all of them. Like short skirmishes. once a step was made, they cutted the mission. (Eg. Carentan, carentan counterattack that was the next mission) Also, it had things that pointed out the objective in a visual manner, not just historic but with like good demonstration of the capabilities of the enemy or the objective. Which coh2 didnt have and i havent seen in coh3. It's just not enought to make it hard for the player but to make it aknowledge it is a great mission you are being handed on.
Thanks, you described exactly why I like CoH1 better and I could never really put it into words. I have way more time in CoH1 than 2. 2 always felt "flat" to me and I couldn't figure out why.
@@twiglets2 That's a very good way to put it yeah, COH1 was definitely way more immersive than 2, which is unfortunate and I'm afraid 3 will be the same and worse.
@@colonelsmith7757 I haven't pulled the trigger on CoH3 just yet, I feel I should give it a try and report my findings for others to consider, but phwor that's a big price tag!
To the point of the dynamic campaign having pull, I'm primarily a CoH1 and DoW1 player and that campaign mode is probably 80% of the reason I'm even interested in CoH3. I love moving my pieces in a turn-based map tying skirmish matches together, as I'm generally a big campaign player but there's only so many times you can play the same linear campaign before getting bored, so if not for that addition, I would have probably written the game off as too Multiplayer focused like CoH2 was, which isn't what I'm looking for in a Relic RTS.
It sounds we have similar tastes in that case. I'm concerned about replayability. I'm playing Immortal Empires currently and can't see myself getting bored any time soon...will the Italian campaign offer anything like that kind of replayability? I suspect not, so I expect DLC's in the future for more money...mixed feelings about that one!
This is the first game I've ever preordered, since I saw it on sale through Fanatical. Played the tech test and loved it, already put 10 hours in. Made it hard to go back to COH2
@@twiglets2 Honestly, it's funny but those little QOL changes you mentioned - auto-vaulting, auto-reinforce, plus the large changes, like squads taking longer to die (less micro needed), longer time with light/medium vehicles, improved realistic vehicle damage model so that tanks are damaged by 20mm/30mm rounds (just reading about a Canadian Sherman in Operation Husky that exploded after a lucky pen from a 20mm round). Feels better than CoH2 in most ways
@@Zombiefruit Perhaps I was too harsh on those changes, lots of little changes can add up to one big improvement after all. I'm excited to give it a try but might wait a few months for the first sale, let everyone else figure out the issues first haha
COH3 = Best of COH1 + Best of COH2 And then add on top developed for modern age gaming of regular patching and content. This game will do very well. The recent multiplayer test proved the gameplay is excellent. The game will of course go on sale, and possibly fairly early, but if you are a keen fan, you will want to play day 1 and likely play for years so the value is easily there.
@AF You must have a copy already available to you and have hit the top 100 in rank. Of you course you have because you wouldn't be the type of person who is full of shet and doesn't know what they are talking about now would you.
I don't think they wanted to attract the Total War Warhammer playerbase with the introduction of dynamic campaign, they are just returning to their roots. Relic already did that with the Dark Crusade DLC for WH40K Dawn of War back in 2006 and it worked. I'm surprised they haven't done that for previous CoH titles already given the popularity of the Dark Crusade..
@@twiglets2 Dark crusade was a huge step forward for the DOW franchise, lots of replayability and had a good storyline for the factions, DOW2 tried mixing COH combat style (cover, smaller squads, the cap and resource points changed) with an RPG character management and wasn't that good, DOW3, well, it's the franchise killer, hated that game. Wish they brought back DOW1 base building and squad style with also the hero mechanic of DOW2, would be an awesome game and probably a way to bring back the DOW IP.
never been big into CoH but I was mildly interested but the games tone just feels completely off for a WW2 game aesthetics are a big thing for me and the trailer had me on the fence looking like a disney movie set in WW2 but now seeing gameplay i have lost most of my interest
@Glumbus I can understand that completely. CoH1 campaign was a very interesting and cinematic story, but on the whole CoH is not there for gritty WW2 aesthetics. Then again, I always enjoy Men of War or Ostfront for that! Wouldn't mind hear more about Men of War 2.
CoH3 is an investment in the CoH franchise for the next 10 years, at least. So it doesn't make any sense to get stuck in CoH2. 60 dollars for 10 years of CoH seems like a deal.
@@ninochaosdrache3189 Yes but we are dealing with Relic on their main IP of Company of Heroes. Plus Company of Heroes II had a long support cycle that kept the game balanced and updated. Combined with the fact they are closely paying attention to their audience, this game is a good deal in the long term.
Destiny and anthem is such a dumb comparison to COH franchise and Relic also has a much better track record as a developer. I have never ever looked at anthem. That was obvious trash. Destiny was good but destiny and COH is so different no point in discussion.
the saturation seems slightly darker in that before/after photo but that's really the only difference I'm noticing. It didn't really improve the shadows on vehicles, which is the real issue for me. They look out-of-place.
I couldn't see a big difference either, so I'm going to withold judgement until the game is released. I have to say I'm struggling to believe it will look massively different though...!
I'm excited personally, already preordered and after the tech test any linger doubts are gone; I'm fully willing to put up with some early teething because I trust relic to keep polishing the game. As long as it's not a broken unplayable mess (it already isn't) I'm not too bothered by the devs taking their time to update the game
I'm glad to see your positivity! I truly hope they make a success of it. I've heard many players say they are already happy with the core gameplay, so it sounds like there will be many players as soon as it releases.
the intro would be unwarranted if we where in 2014. forespoken, callisto protocol, overwatch 2, FNAF Security breach, black for blood, battlefield 2042, cod mw2 re, cod van, cod cold war, cod black ops 4&3, cyberpunk, halo inf, fallout 76, anthem, last of us 2, Warcraft reforge, diablo immortal, elder scrolls blade, Command and conquer mobile game, Master chief collection, battlefield V, pubg, dawn of war 3, halo wars 2, evolve, and may more. We are in the dark age of triple A but the silver age of indie. Lack of trust from the "gibbon" is not out of no where, it was earned. (all of this does not apply to Nintendo, from soft and other smaller triple A studios) (Edit Nintendo is not included when I said other smaller triple A studios)
I'm actually new to these types of games, after I played Sudden Strike 4 and heard that there will probably be no other sudden strike so I found this game, and when I played the playtest I fell in love with it. If there would be something to complain about is probably how the tanks look, I'm not a big fan of the blue ribbon around the barrel and around the tank but I guess that could just be me. I already pre-ordered it so that wont be a problem anymore. I'm excited to play it!
I hope you enjoy it! The blue ribbon is what many players are concerned about, though there are other areas in the visuals of the game that have a similar problem, and look a bit cartoony as a result. I hope we all enjoy it!
@@twiglets2 They are making games that revolve around micro transactions and revenue. In my opinion, the industry has lost its way. Now it feels like walking past a sandwich shop with a sign in the window saying, “Sandwich: For Only 1 Credit*”. However you go in, not realising fillings are excluded because you’re bone idle. You become so super hyped, your greedy little brain goes nuts ordering everything. Eventually you sit down, begin to eat and it’s F”””ing minging. You say, “Never again, will I fall for that snide trick” only to be in another sandwich shop 3 days later because you didn’t learn your lesson. 1 credit = £1, €1, or Zimbabwe 100 trillion*
When you said Men of War and ostfront players it made me chuckle. I’ve put more hours into the Men of War series as a whole because each release is always more enjoyable than the last. However I’ve always enjoyed CoH as a franchise for its single player content, I never really got into multiplayer for it as it can be one of those games where you mass produce one unit and dominate. I’m optimistic about coh 3.
@Cromwell I'm glad you spotted it, I felt I should include a nod to my MoW and Ostfront brethren. I'm similar to you with the single player content. I have probably racked up more hours in multiplayer than I realise but I maintain that the CoH1 campaign is one of the best single player experiences out there. I hope they do it again with CoH3!
I'm excited for the dynamic campaign. It isn't about enjoying the gameplay of the overworld map, it is about mixing up the engagements you encounter in the ensuing skirmishes. Getting to modify which types of troops you bring into the battles, what sorts of upgrades you have access too, what sorts of companies you get, and having more varied objectives, maps, and opponents in those skirmishes. I'm a player who plays mostly against the AI, just because most of the time I'm not interested in a sweaty multiplayer match. But the AI can get boring in these games, so having more variety and new challenges has me excited. Also, it's already obvious from the tech test that there is more variety in the factions, and more ways to play than in COH2. It might not seem like much has changed, but if you're a player who plays COH2 constantly, then I imagine the game will feel worth it, even if it is only a small upgrade.
I'm also excited about the dynamic campaign. I've never really gotten into RTS games because the multiplayer always seems so difficult to get into and the story missions in DOW and COH are just boring and are not at all a great way to get you acclimated to skirmish style gameplay, imo. I think this game could be the one that could make me make the plunge.
I expect this sort of "controversy", and also expect it will be mostly sound and fury signifying nothing. Some people will never be happy with a sequel that isn't an exact clone of its predecessor. There was a loud contingent of plyers who declared that they would stick with CoH1 come hell or high water. But it's the competitive scene that makes and keeps the buzz, and 2 soon overshadowed 1 in that regard. Furthermore, Relic kept patching and balancing the game right up until recently. They never abandoned it. It would need to be catastrophically, humiliatingly bad for them to do so. Relic know it is impossible to please everyone and they are simply inured to the fact that some fraction of people will never be happy with anything new. That's just an incontrovertible fact. They were pleased with their mud tech, but the players hated it, so they took it out. I think this was a mistake; it made the game both more realistic and more interesting. Too many players would, if they could, play on a flat empty field, because it limits variables and randomness. But I think this is a mistake both in terms of gameplay and realism. They do listen, they are responsive, but making one person happy can easily annoy another. They will never be able to please everyone, they know that, they aren't going to lose any sleep over it. They would have to stuff up terribly to not be confident of taking most of the player base over to the new game; even most of the reluctant ones will come after their butthurt wears off.
As a Coh 1 player, i'm sort of skeptical. I played 1000's of hours of CoH. I feel like they're finally in the right direction with being able to define hotkey's, but the UI feels like it needs to be updated. Most people play with their left hand on the wasd area of the keyboard and the 4x3 hotkeys should reflect that. They should also be on the left hand side and the minimap on the right. It just feels behind the times. Hopefully there are some ui options with it. I'm hoping it's good, Unfortunately during the MP beta i was out of town away from a pc so wasn't able to participate. So looking forward to info once it comes out this month.
@Turvok we must keep our fingers firmly crossed. A flexible UI would be a great addition to the game. Personally I like using WASD to move the camera, which I know will slow me down but it's just what I'm used to. I hope I can do that when the game releases.
I will say that CoH 3 brought some of the best elements of both CoH 1 and CoH 2 : - The territory system of CoH 1 which is displaying fuel and munitions sectors across all around the map and cut off points with manpower only which makes the resources production evenly across the frontline instead of having just 2 fuel points and 2 ammo points only in CoH 2 - the permanent upgrades from CoH 1 : in CoH 3 you have permanent upgrade from the base instead of being locked behind commanders, like adding more abilities, increasing veterancy etc but for all factions this time. - Vehicle HUD damage criticals from CoH 1 : now they brought back how the damage critical are displayed in the HUD like a damaged engine, tracks etc. - Commanders variation from CoH 2 : CoH 3 will definitely have more diverse commanders to play across all factions. - Picking the commander's tree units/abilities from your own choosing like in CoH 1 but with a xor function, like you pick either abilities and it will lock the other one and vice versa, increasing its replayability by playing the same commander but with a diverse meta with different units/abilities. In CoH 2 you unlocked the commander's tree the linear way only. - Unit variation like in CoH 2 : CoH 3 have many more units, baseline as well from the commanders, it is actually nice to get various infantry squads/tanks etc. But one big important category of unit missing from the UKF faction in CoH 3 is a tank destroyer as a baseline unit (they showcased the Archer but i think it is locked behind a commander) - Population cap set 100 as default from CoH 2: the population cap is an important feature from the CoH franchise, if they brought back the same pop cap mechanics from CoH 1, i'll be getting out of there. - Units calls in like the Tiger from the DAK requires only manpower to call it, it reminds of the 1000 manpower double panther call-ins from the PE faction or the 800 mp tiger from wher from CoH 1. in CoH2 you need both fuel and manpower to call-in tanks. EDIT : they released a new patch recently, now the Tiger (both from Wehr and DAK) also requires fuel to call it. All in all, i think CoH 3 can bring the best from both of the previous game despite little innovations that Relic has made.
Interesting! It will certainly annoy players who only love CoH2 but it seems the best of both worlds is the only way forward, and may attract many new players too
@@twiglets2 Exactly, making the same iteration of a game including its core gameplay mechanics despite the little innovation it gets will attract new players nonetheless.
There are many COH single player fans that have never played in an online capacity with me being one of those. COH3 looks to have some good additions to the single player side of things including the tactical pause feature which many have wanted for a long time. Also adding in future dlc missions, units and even possible factions can keep the income stream viable to continue to see new content created and added to the base game which for many buyers offers more value than a franchise that continues to have a new game rather than update the existing game. Another thing is if you want the franchise to continue to have teams working to improve and add new content to the game then the game needs to be a money maker to make it worthwhile to the studio. Advising people not to buy at launch to save a few dollars on the purchase does not lend itself for the studio to commit much in the way of resources back into the game going forward. I only have a few games I purchase at initial launch and pretty much buy all DLC content for and COH is one of those. My pre order has been a done deal and paid for since last summer, it was a little bit of a bummer when the November launch was pushed to February but again I will do my best to support the studio for a game I like. Again what the online player numbers do or do not do are not an issue for me as I only play single player.
I have around 3,000 hours in coh2 and I am cautiously hopeful for Coh3, but personally I have minimal interest in the dynamic campaign. For people like myself what kept bringing me back to coh2 and what will decide if Coh3 is a success or failure is solely on it's Multi-player experience. If Relic is consistent with new content and updates for Multi-player than I'll happily log 3,000 hours in coh3.
i did like demo and will play COH3 but the criticism levelled at is is valid . sound is flat . graphics simply should not be a downgrade from previous 2 titles .
I hope most players can look past the sound & graphics as long as the gameplay is solid. Even more, I hope they just improve the sound and graphics anyway!
@@devilsmessanger I've heard many calls for Japan, that'd be an exciting addition indeed! It's curious that they chose the Italian front over the Pacific, but then didn't even include Italy as a faction, which I'm sure would have been possible...!
I've spent countless hours in CoH 1 and 2, and am not very impressed with what I've seen for CoH3 so far. I'll be on the sidelines and let others dig in before making a decision.
I wasn’t either until playing COH3 in the tech test. The game has an incredible base to work off and will be far more improved in the next couple years.
@@jeremyj5932 I'm glad to hear you think so, and many others agree from what I've read. As much as visuals shouldn't matter all that much I think a slight improvement will bring a lot more players onboard and the game will flourish. I'm a little more concerned about how quickly the balance updates will be released though!
I've played COH and COH2 and after playing a short time with the play test last month I can say that when the game got going the visuals were a non factor, audio did feel quiet. I agree, those who are die hard COH2 players may trial the game at discount or free weekend but return to their point of comfort, much like those who did it in COH when 2 released. I like the parallels to AOE4 and as someone who has played that game consistently since launch, the updates have been consistent and appropriate. The massive update with new civs also breathed life into it. Also, relic and Microsoft have made it profitable for the pro players by putting out large tournaments with a prize too good to pass on, I see that as a way to keep player base interested at this point in time. I think the COH3 player base as largely those who really enjoy RTS and are looking for another option. Unfortunately those who pay full price at launch will likely receive a beta product, but if updates are quick and appropriate then it is what it is with a game that has competitive multiplayer in mind.
to me the graphical problems weren't really a big issue after they showed the improvements to lighting and weathering, the main problem i have with the game is that the factions are a near copy and paste of coh2 with the same america, britain, (russian) vs the different flavors of germany it's almost like relic is doing this on purpose intentionally keeping the other axis nations out of circulation(why they would do this i have no clue). especially the Afrika korps which was basically promised as a reskin of coh2 OKW, and coh1 panzer elite . They did change the british and americans a little bit but i really didn't see a huge change in how they played during the multiplayer tech test. i was really hoping to get a new unique faction for both allies and axis which had a very different a distinct playstyle but it seems the desire to keep the same formula that they know works and keep copy and pasting it won. hopefully the add some variety to the factions later down the road in a dlc or update
I'm with you here, a bit disappointment. It's time a game was made that explored other factions in the war. Okay, maybe they need to be fleshed out in some cases, but there are definitely armies that had enough of their own equipment to be included. Maybe next time!
@@twiglets2 i have not heard much of it was so sad back in coh2 when i heard they were going to add another axis faction and i thought to myself THIS IS IT no other european faction could work better than italy but much to my chagrin it was just the damm germans with another coat of paint Chances are they will not add a dedicated one which pains me so much as i have played the combined arms doctrine during the test and i was playing with solely italian units and it was a lot of fun people need to understand that the majority of axis forces in north africa were italian and not german but everyone just fetishises Rommel and his Afrika Korps When it was just that a Korps the italians were the ones to have a faction WITH a damm Afrika Korps Doctrine instead of the other way around but god knows lelic is tone deaf so i am not holding my breath for this game i could care less for the sounds and everything else just give a dedicated italian faction with ONLY italian native units is that really so hard to ask for from a million dollar gaming company jesus christ
@@ACCB710 Although I'm sure there would have been challenges, including an Italian faction would have been very impressive and headline news. It seems they missed an opportunity!
@@twiglets2 very much so and as far as challenges go italy had more than enough vehicles and equipment that could fit every role even though some were not really produced or had great impact having a fully fledged one would be amazing rather than going the pathetic route of just painting an italian flag on a german panzer if i wanted to play damm knockoff germany i would just play Germany use things like the Trombocino and P44's italy had the designs at least if we can have suspension of disbelief to have jagdtigers which were hardly ever used we can have the same logic to ensure italy would become a viable and fun unique facrion all its own... instead this i what we got and i am furious about it
COH 1 is still my favorite. It felt heavy and paced well. Only play COH 2 because servers were shutdown for 1. Games these days feel so faced paced to me.
I was hoping that the CoH3 campaign would feel more like CoH1, but from the reviews I've seen so far, the campaign in CoH3 is underwhelming. I hope those reviews are wrong, but it doesn't look good!
The dynamic campaign is actually the primary selling point to me. I am a big fan of CoH 2 and Total war but ultimately the dynamic campaign concept preceeds Total War by a long shot and can be seen in many different series and genres. A great example is the original BF2 with its Galactic Conqest mode that was good but unfortunately half baked, Dawn of War DC. CoH 2 tried it with Ardennes and again it was half baked as shit. Dynamic campaign modes to me always sing to me as an excellent model campaign and two examples show the idea isnt a stranger to relic - but they have to go all out. Replayability, role playing, dynamic warfare and another layer of strategy not seen in RTS games like CoH2 - logistics.
@@danb4900 Agreed, that's what I would put my money on. Their marketing is decent so will generate initial interest no matter what, but player retention? Now that'll be interesting to keep an eye on!
I like to think I'm closer aligned with the gibbon when it comes to the whole screeching that can happen over the communities of each Company of Heroes title. Your video has been a relief to watch as while I personally hold a fairly pessimistic view on CoH3 you have convinced me that whatever comes, it will likely still be an acceptable addition to the series. I don't really care for the graphical area of a game so much a strong cynicism that came with Relic's handling of CoH2 and base my low expectations from their responses over the years. CoH2 came out as something of a flop due to a bad wrap around its campaign, but what really kept its head pinned under the water was just the overall slow update and the developers taking years to implement very basic improvements and promises. I haven't seen anyone specifically mentioning this, but there was a great fuss and a promotional video that Relic once put out to improve the god awful RNG item drop that the game originally had. Nowadays, we have an actual progress bar for reliable item drops, but that took years! YEARS! You'd think something so simple ought to be out in at most a month or so after the announcement, but that was not the case. Maybe the Relic for CoH3 will treat the game with more enthusiasm and help change my impression on them. I sure as hell hope that I'm wrong as a gibbon and that there's something to look forward to by the end of the year.
It would be very interesting to hear the conversations at Relic, how they decide what to prioritize and why it takes so long to release basic updates...I'd like to be a fly on the wall!
Call me a Gibbon or else, but they won't see my 60€. Forcing myself to enjoy the demo, which I didn't, after have almost 5000 hours in COH2, it's a big sign to me. Don't spend your, mine, money in this game, it may have the Coh brand, but have nothing to do with coh2, the game I really love.
@@twiglets2 I stopped playing Coh1 the day coh2 came out, I never played the game again, I got hooked by coh2, I liked the variety that the commander system gave, I liked the mechanics and rhythm of the game . My problem with coh3 is that I didn't feel the same appeal, I know it was a demo, but there's something, I'm not even sure what it is, that doesn't attract me to the new game. Maybe it's the tall buildings, lots of colors, the units are diffuse, they blend in with the environment, to many colored information , I don't know.
@@macaconuu Perhaps CoH2 will maintain a strong player base (I'm certain it will) while CoH3 appeals to a slightly different kind of player. Who knows, both games may perform well for the next few years and that turns out to be a win for everybody (especially Relic!)
Ah. These are the folks that did AoE4? I played that just long enough to not be able to get a refund - that max zoom out restriction is claustrophobic, jus' sayin' ... and now the buzz is the same issue is in CoH3? Hmm. Was planning to get this on opening day, but think I'll sit it out and see what happens.
They sure are! As I understand it, once they were finished with AoE4 many of the developers moved over to work on CoH3. Although they are of course different games, I have a feeling we will see many similarities between them. Both good and bad!
Im what you would call a very old school vet of company of heroes, from the times before steam, before opposing fronts, tales of value and mobile version. i was pretty excited for COH2, i played a lot of it, and still do, i also still play me some COH1 moded (blitzkrieg), i kind of disliked COH2 stupid commander system and i can only play it with mods now. im very excited to play COH3, the new campaign seems like a mix of elements of total war and regular COH, and i love that idea, all the quality of life improvements from COH2, bigger scale and this very dinamic campaign with a lot of freedom, seems like a great idea, and the new setting is also intresting and im ready to explore.
@ian duarte I'm glad to hear it. An opinion that is coming through all of these comments is that CoH1 is going to be a big part of CoH3 which couldn't make me happier.
@@twiglets2 i hope they learn too. Just after DoW3 they haven't done anything that makes me feel like they can. Like 343 Industries, nearly a decade of no progress isn't inspiring to me.
its the geographical setting. mediterranean is warm, italy is known for its bright roofs and flowers, the wanted to match it, when you are outside in a wam bright day your eyes have problems to adapt often times, thats why its warm.
It's an interesting point. Gritty WW2 aesthetic vs lush Italian landscape. Perhaps, ultimately our perception is wrong and both are a little unrealistic!
dynamic campaign? i mean that is if you want it to be a upgraded Dawn of War Dark crusade map, which was a lot of fun, and easily the thing that would make me buy the game
I actually didnt know there will be a campaign map like total war series. This has now bump my hype a lot up and I will be buying the game at release. I liked Ardennes Assault a lot.
It looks promising! They have made big changes in the development of the campaign map, I think they are listening to the feedback so I hope they do a good job :)
1:21 - I guess she was a resistance fighter (doubt especially back then with the lack of digital media you'd just know how a gun works). As far as your point you made there "will it tempt CoH2 players". Well I'll stick to Coh2 until I see T-34 tanks or Katyusha rocket launchers (my go to weapons in Coh2). Any proper WW2 game includes as many people from around the world as it can (seeing that it was called WORLD war 2, not European War 2". And yeah, even Company of Heroes 2 felt lacking in that regard. So to be honest I haven't played Coh2 since the release of Steel Division 2 and Hearts of Iron 4. Sure Italy is in now, but it lost a much larger component of WW2 and we still haven't seen the other major player Japan yet, so . . . Not interested for those reasons. Steel Division 2 gave me all the vehicles and factions than any Coh2 game as ever given and more. Hell even South Africa is a playable faction in Steel Division 2. And Hearts of Iron 4 lets you play as any nation in the world that existed during that time period and even make new ones. So yeah, for Coh3 to attract me it will have to offer more gameplay and gameplay variety that those games. (I mean you're asking me to stop playing those games and come play Coh3, then it has to be better than they are) And I haven't even mention the Total War series (can't wait until they do something historical with gunpowder again).
So no one will understand what I’m about to say but, there was an Axis and Allies video game published by Atari in like, the late 90s or early 2000s that had a campaign almost exactly like this one. Armies were literally pieces on a board that you could add units to and move into tiles to begin battles. It was a great little game but seems to have gone almost completely unnoticed in its time, I was lucky and found it in a bargain bin while on vacation with my family and my dad bought it for me because he didn’t want to pay the price for the actual board game.
I am veteran of Coh2 and in the competitive community, I think Coh3 looks great. The change to grid keys is a huge quality of life. I played roughly 18 hours of the multiplayer demo and me and my friends respected it’s progress. last minute polishes are not something i’m worried about.
@Ben Wilson I'm glad to hear this positivity. I would like to ask why you think so many of the CoH2 community are not so positive about CoH3? I only say this based on reading many comments and therefore a general idea of what players are feeling at the moment.
I have purchased all CoH titles and dlc with excitement. But will prob pass on this one. Coh 1 still looks better imo. Just look att that awful tiger..
@@borjebeck2511 I hear you, would I be right in thinking you enjoy Gates of Hell Ostfront? I know many players have made the move over to that game instead now.
Pc games were 50 in 1982 when I first started buying them. The fact they pretty much stayed the same price all these years while everything else in all of reality has quadrupled in price means they are a bargain at 60 now.
That's interesting as I recall in the 90's many "big" games were around £25 so I guess $30 equivalent, though my exchange rate may be very out of date there! I'm thinking of Command and Conquer Red Alert for context...
Coming from AOE, AOE4 support started off slow and the launch was pretty unbalanced, but I have to give credit where credit is due. They've done pretty well over the last year with balance, seasonal updates, update previews and hotfixes. AOE4 is in a really good spot right now balance wise, but their player numbers are struggling to grow.
Never really played Company of Heroes but have consistently bought every Total War game. When I played CO2 I loved the campaign and its missions so when I heard CO3 had a Dynamic Campaign it just sealed the deal for me.
Would've preferred the Pacific Theater but Italy and North Africa is good too. Also I 100% think they are telling the truth when they said they couldn't currently do the Pacific Theater justice. Maybe someday in the future.
If you want a taste of the pacific theater in an RTS, Men of War Assault Squad has you covered. However, the Japanese are an extremely weak faction due to their armor being horrible, automatic fire being limited, and support equipment being extremely situational. The RobZ mod tries to fix this with more experimental units but they are no match for the Americans.
I was really annoyed at first about the cartoon graphics, but after taking some time to chill out, I realized i can look past the graphics and still enjoy the game. My favorite game series has been COH for years and really looked forward to this release. I've come to the realization that COH2 is just so awesome there's no way to create something better, so no matter what, people will still be dissatisfied with COH3. I'm sure the creators are under a lot of pressure and are doing their best so I do feel for the guys in the trenches, but money is tight these days, I'm just not impressed enough to spend so much money on a video game that doesn't blow me out of my seat. I'll have to wait till it drops a bit.
I think that's a core issue for many, the price tag is very high. Of course, it's quite a standard price these days, but it's very difficult for a game to be worth that price tag too! I do hope there's a 10% or 20% sale in 2023 so players can pick it up cheaper.
I'm a huge COH fan and honestly might seem to be odd one here, I'm so So Happy COH3 is coming to Console. That was like a dream of mine With COH1&2 and DOW 1&2. (Sorry while I play alot of PC games I just prefer Chilling with a controller I'm my hands looking at a big screen). So fact COH3 will be on Consoles all I care about is that it is well optimized and the Controls work great lol, I'm very stoked for this game honestly, however I do agree that COH2 does look visibly much better
coh was the gold standard after dow for rts... the pvp for coh had me hooked for a while. watching highly competitive matches with the og cast was nuts... when coh2 came out 10 year later there was no way it could live up to expectations even if they made the game for ten years.
@newinhuman you've made me think, are they trying to make the same game over and over? Perhaps coh3 is trying too hard to be like 1 and 2 when what we need is something different ...just a thought!
Coh 1 is a beat down broken car your grandad got you. It was great at the time and you look back on it with nostalgia. But coh 2 was the newer model of the same car. Coh 3 is just bad.
Nice video man, I loved the analysis. I feel like COH and AOE cannot be compared, as AOE got a new game after like 15 years right? So their playerbase was cemented onto AOE 2, especially given the fact that the Definitive Edition of AOE 2 was so good. I love COH though and I enjoyed COH 1 so much, but COH 2 not so much. Wondering if I should buy this one, I really want to. :D
I agree about AoE and CoH, it's also been pointed out that AoE2 is still being updated and CoH2 isn't, but at least it started a conversation! Many are saying CoH3 has a lot of what made CoH1 so special, so maybe we have something to look forward to there!
@@twiglets2 Yess, you're right, it is still okay to compare the two franchises, especially given how Relic worked on AOE4 as well. I loved COH1 and have ordered COH3 anyway, haha. Wanna get into some tank warfare action again with new-gen graphics!
this is a cool video. i myself am a little bit of a gibbon having over a thousand hours of multiplayer played. however i am super hyped and positive about coh3 and am going to buy it on first day because it looks fun and playable and i want to get a head start.
Relic has always struggled with the pacing of updates. Over time with CoH they've gotten better with the community, but COH2 was a disaster. The competitive community structure is in place, I hope the ladder and observation systems are in place to let the game flourish. I want this game to succeed as well. Great content, thank you!!
Thank you! I was concerned this video would come across too negative, I definitely want the game to smash it, but also wary Relic will let themselves down with the updates. Let's keep the positivity going!
@@twiglets2 haven't tried it yet but just started looking into it, look's interesting and I will most likely buy it when it does release. Actually just got into Coh after having it in my library for a year or so and really dig the game but the WW2 stuff is so played out. I don't get the appeal of old weaponry but the mechanics and over all gameplay is great. I think if they did a modern take on it with more factions it would be a exciting fresh take on the title instead of this coh 2.5 fortnite edition .
It's set the bar high! The Ostfront campaign was such a great experience! Though I have heard the multiplayer needs work when it comes to performance, I assume CoH3 will have that covered already.
The only issue that bothered me was that the game's lighting actually looked downgrade compared to previous tests. If this is still the case, I'll just wait for the discount or choose aother game such as Gates of Hell or Men of War 2.
@@twiglets2 Indeed, COH2 Russian campaign was a joke, it feels really really bad, full of anti-russian propaganda, killing their own people. war crime everywhere. Then the Ardennes Assault, were they really drunk enough not making the campaign on the German side? instead gaving us another boring American "skirmish" like crap. This time they made the classic campaign for Rommel, finally the right choice.
If you want the success of rt you should know that, according to steam, most players do not exceed a gtx1660 card, a healthy ladder is the one that keeps rts alive, that any player finds a game in their elo, if they limit the number of players due to its technical demands and the ladder is scarce, people will leave even if it has spectacular graphics, the end. Note: I have 6gb of graphics and it is still not enough to put the graphics of the game aoe4 all to the maximum
I couldn't agree more! I don't know much about the technical side, but presumably the ideal scenario is a game that can be set to low graphics for everyone, and an ultra setting for those with the powerful PC's so everyone wins. Particularly on the dynamic campaign map where the PC will need to churn a lot.
I think that people are angry not because the devs are venturing into new areas, but because they consistently fail to learn from past successes and change things that shouldn't change. Small example, but good in terms of the point I'm making: There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that the Marder model and texture from 2006 should look 100 times better than the Marder model and textures of 2023. Nobody ever complained about COH1 or 2 models looking goofy and toy-like, nobody ever complained about not being able to identify a unit on a map by its basic shape. Everyone who plays RTS games has some sort of situational awareness and a basic understanding of where his units are, either by the models and colours, the icons, and by remembering where he left them. It's the age-old adage that nobody wants to follow anymore, *don't fix what ain't broken.*
@colonelsmith7757 I have a theory that may explain the Marder situation which I'd like your opinion on. In my view a game such as CoH3 these days is produced with an eye on as many platforms as possible, including mobile gaming. As mobiles are far less powerful than console or PC they have to purposefully "dumb down" the graphics to make the game more easily portable to the mobile platform, without having to do as much work / remodel everything. A one size fits all approach essentially. I'll admit I know next to nothing about this situation, but to me it makes sense. Especially when you consider CoH1 was purely for PC whereas CoH3 will want to release on every platform possible, so the game is restricted by the least powerful of those platforms. I don't think the game is even available on mobile (yet), but I bet they are keeping their options open. Otherwise, I haven't a clue why the graphics look so....not 2023!
@@twiglets2 You wouldn't be far off and I'll tell you why. It's not the first time that computer games have been dumbed-down and have suffered graphically because the developers wanted to include a release for far weaker systems like consoles. This issue has affected games from Fallout 3 & New Vegas all the way up to Cyberpunk 2077 and many others among them. As for mobile games, yeah, I wouldn't consider it such a stretch because around 15 years ago nobody would believe that PC games would get downgraded just so that consoles could handle additional content and graphics, and I do want to stress the word *content* here, because it wasn't just the graphics that were made worse/simpler on purpose, but a lot of content such as map locations, missions, weapons etc. was cut in the aforementioned games in order to save space for the console releases. CD constraints were also an issue back then; not anymore but stuff was still cut out of Cyberpunk for this reason, so go figure. If you want my personal subjective opinion all I can say is how I feel, which is very disappointed, because even as a kid I felt that COH1 had soul, in the gameplay, in the graphics, in the voice acting, both the dramatic scenes and the more humorous voice lines from units that you spam-clicked too much. I saw less of that in COH2 and even less in COH3. I think the only thing that could save this new release would be full mod support, just like COH1 had, so the players can mod-in new vehicle models, new animations, new sounds, new icons, and not just be constrained by surface-level textures or "mods" that simply enable to field all units or "mods" that just change the damage output. Every "mod" from COH2 is nothing short of just fiddling with a few numbers and changing only vehicle textures, everything else is off-limits and I believe this really hurts the game.
£50 is just too high of a price tag for the current state of the game and what it offers. I was unbelievably excited for COH3 and my wary stance has only developed in the last couple of months. I love the setting and the potential, but right now it isn’t worth it. I reckon if they keep working at it and fixing minor issues and perhaps drop the price to £35-£40, eventually it will be worth it. I had initially planned on buying it day-one, but now I have zero intention of doing that as of the time of writing this comment. Which sucks, because the Italian theatre is such an underused and under appreciated theatre of WW2, particularly from the dogged resistance the Allies met when they met the heavily fortified lines from the Gustav Line all the way to the Gothic, Genghis Khan and Po Lines. The campaign within Italy was incredibly bloody. They also have the potential for a DLC in North Africa or perhaps even Operation Dragoon.
Agreed, I can't see myself paying for it at £50, but hope for a discount and improvements in a few months. Perhaps a good one for the Christmas holidays !
I will spend 60 and ill tell you why. RTS's now a days are on the decline, it's by the grace of god that we are getting Homeward 3 and COH 3. Relic at least pretends to listen and they've said from the begging that they'll have the community in mind when making this game. They're trying. i enjoyed your video, good points very cohesive. cheers!
Thank you! I do give Relic a hard time, but they have my respect for sure. They listen and they are trying! I just don't want them to get too comfortable either!
Ok, I’ve committed maybe 20,000 hours of my short life to company of heroes games. If you put that in perspective, most hsrdcoreish gamers rack up 3 or 4k hours on games they love. I have 10k between both titles and I’m very ashamed of it. Company of Heroes is so near and dear to my heart that, until this week, I have not looked at any of the gameplay, trailers, anything. I refused. Just because I get so jealous seeing other people play it. I’m a fanatic. I’ve only started peaking these past few days. Everything I have seen has been spectacular, exactly what I’d want from the third title. I’ve set aside a week of time to exclusively play the game, telling family that I won’t be reachable. I am one hundred percent confident that the game will deliver in a massive way. The issue I detected regarding company of heroes fans as they were divided between 1 and 2 had more to do with their taste in games rather than any substantive criticisms of the job Relic did on them. The controversy is regarding whether or not Company of Heroes 1 cinematic, historical saga full of movie references and iconic voicelines is better or if the coh 2 MLG style, progression/customization experience is going to serve the game’s fan base and momentum. To me, it’s been made abundantly clear by Relic that they are going above and beyond capitalizing on both those cardinal and distinguishing features of the series, fusing them in coh 3 to provide a gaming experience that services all the strengths, weaknesses, passions, and curiosities of all RTS gaming styles. Relic is not some rando. They have been crystallizing the RTS formula for decades across two major franchises. Company of heroes 1 broke through the genre in a way that has left a resonant impact which can never be reversed. No studio does it better. I know the game will be good because they’ve been delaying it. Every minute of footage I’ve seen looks flawless. It seems somewhat as though the unit variety is a little TOO asymmetrical, with rather esoteric units from the war being given roles that are disproportionate to their actual historical function. This may be an aesthetic issue, but it may turn into a balancing issue that will make the multiplayer scene hard to maintain. We will see.
As someone who really likes tanks, I hate the vanilla tanks in CoH and on top of that infantry is not as squishy as they should be. Sometimes standing in front of each other, shooting for half a minute, befor someone is ded. Really don't like that. GoH Ostfront feels so much better. And with the dynamic campaigne, this will be more like a one time playthrough, with no replay value. I really hope for good mod support.
@@dreadedTanker3173 Agreed they cater to different audiences. Though it will be interesting to see if the mod community can create something from CoH3 that will attract Ostfront players.
I guess it depends how literal you take the words "Real Time Strategy" to be. Fortnite is in real time, and is strategic if you wanted to get silly with it!
I think you can look to a franchise like Civilization... Every time a new version comes out everyone trashes it and says the older one is better, completely disregarding the YEARS of updates, DLCs and patches, much the same for Warhammer. I think HOI is a cool game but like the others of its kind it is VERY steep learning curve and for a lot of people is far to complex to really be considered a casual game. I have really high hopes for the Dynamic Campaign as it might offer a very happy and enjoyable medium between both HOI and Warhammer.
@Hoggle agreed, it's very predictable to see CoH2 trash CoH3 so can't say I'm surprised. I'm enjoying Warhammer 3 at the moment so hope to move over to the dynamic campaign for something similar in a different setting. We can only hope!
I'm actually someone who doesn't like COH1 or COH2 very much, because I don't like more "traditional" RTS games (Age of Empires, Command & Conquer, Starcraft, etc.), especially ones with base building. If I play "real-time" strategy games, it's going to be something like Men of War or Steel Division. Most other strategy games I play are turn or phase based. However, I'm part of what is likely a VERY select group of people that initially actually became interested in this game almost entirely because of the dynamic campaign. So while I guess there aren't a lot of people that may have been convinced by this feature, there is a least one here!
@robinmattheussen2395 Interesting! Could you go into some detail on what they've done well or not so well about the dynamic campaign? I always thought the success of the game would come down to the dynamic campaign and whether they could pull it off to attract players like you
@@twiglets2 To be honest they already have done it 2 times in the past, so a friend of mine who has an old laptop wanted us to play an old rts together, so i proposed to him men of war assault squad and then he said what about men of war? its only 4.99, so me being curious because the first game i played was assault squad 1 and after 2 said yes out of curiosity to see how the first men of war game was. and i was shocked to see its so similar to assault squad 1 and 2 in so many aspects i realized that ever since the golden era of gaming being for me 99s-2010, companies just reskin and reupdate old time classics , Counter strike, Call of duty , Battlefield , Assassins Creed, GTA series, Dead space very recently and many many other franchises , and in the end people always buy them sooner or later... there is very little Unique things and new titles that are fresh and present something else. So in my conclusion after a while when KOH 3 and Men of war 2 get some patches people will slowly start swimming there as they have done in the past. since companies now days most of the times release broken garbage that need a whole year of patching to be playable , and the people instead of doing something else than whine swallow this every fucking time and the Fairytale goes on and on....
@@twiglets2 take an example out Total war war hammer, CA and SEGA sold the same game 3 times in pieces in less than a decade and split that game in more pieces with each title having their own DLC meaning if you want to have WH3 with everything included you are way past 300 dollars , and i see people praising them for how good and amazing they are its like matrix but people always take the Blue pill and stay inside it for ever, they are blind to the truth . Back in the day games did not have amazing visuals, but love and attention was put into them and most games at launch where stable and very enjoyable , something that is very rare today.
I feel videos like this should wait for release. I get it. I know you need to pay the bills and thus make a video. That being said - hardly anyone has played the single player campaigns, and Relic has already addressed / begun working on concerns by the community. I had a blast with the multiplayer test and voiced my concerns in their provided survey afterwards. It's to receive such a quick response from a developer versus hearing nothing at all, which is what we usually get from other ones. Relic can't handle another DoW3 fiasco with the installment of CoH3, as it would kill the Company of Heroes franchise. I preordered - yes, I don't care, $60 certainly won't kill me - and am optimistic. Listening to veterans of CoH, it sounds like CoH2 was an absolute - nearly unplayable - mess at launch. That is not even remotely close to what we have here which is more than playable. I remain optimistic, and hell if it needs work, so be it. I'm in for the long haul.
The players you describe, the hardcore if you will, for either coh 1 or coh 2, often get caught up with which one is "better" and don't see what both bring to the table.
Coh1 1. Great match and tech pacing 2. All strats more or less is viable 3. Units and commanders well though out and balance out with each other.
factions
coh2. 1. True sight, smoke coverage, behind bushes etc. 2. True weather (snow) 3. Lots of choices in terms of commaders and sub commanders.
Now with coh 1 there is still the "cheese" like free riflemen with a 180 causalities clearance center, or the Wehrmacht can lock down entire section of the map with a MG because your troops can't bother to jump a wood fence that is 5 feet off the ground, however the problems with coh 2 are more pronounce.
The "good" in coh2 is also questionable, lets take the "choice" option, yeah you have tons of commanders, most are either not viable because they only work in 2's 3's 4's or they don't' bring anything that you can use either to early or too late which leaves only a very few commanders to use.
Pace and match progression both in terms of tech tree is also another huge problem for coh2, USAF is the best example of this problem mostly because they are force to a all Riflemen strat, sure they added a mortar in the last patch but by buying it you lose field presence which is a death sentence to the allied factions, so spam is the name of the game. Lets say you play a "smart" game and deploy a "early" Stuart or light vehicle, while smart players can take advantage of said vehicles the window between a light and a proper tank is too small to make a real difference which goes to show a problem with pacing, but it gets worse even if I did everything right and deploy a "early Sherman" by locking myself out of any other critical part of my own tech trees (L.T. OR CAPT) which grants me either suppression or in direct, that early Sherman isn't worth anything because the tank can't handle standard armor and the H.E. shells relied to heavily on RNG, so once again the USAF player is pigeon hole into a pair of Jacksons or scots.
On the contrary a early light vehicle in coh1 makes the difference in the world and to top it off the US tree isn't as restrictive, by getting your SECOND building you have all the tools you need to customize your strategy.....Just like coh 3. I can go on and on about the problems with COH 2 but you get the general idea of what I mean, not to mention that the "UNIQUENESS" that coh 2 like Snow/blizzard system, the OKW cool concept of a starved German army needed to choose between ammo or fuel created very unique scenarios have been striped down to a "E SPORTS" friendly game play.
Another great example of what went wrong from coh1 to coh2 and they are fixing in coh 3 again, is in coh 1 any squad the models are represented as individual dots (on the head) in each model to properly use the cover system, in coh 2 they are not because the whole squad is represented as one model....why does that matter...clumping, oh yeah now it makes sense with all those squad wipes huh?
Coh 1 has its faults, I don't like pop count tied to the map control for example, but the more I play coh 2 I realize how much worse it's gotten.
I would go as far as to say that in a lot of ways backwards.
I was invited to both the ALPHA and the Mult Tech and seen the improvements first hand, I still have replays from both and I can actively go back and see the improvements (which I have, hell I got replays from COH ONLINE LOL) and I can tell you with out of doubt that COH 3 is far superior state now then COH2 was in its ALPHA/BETA state when it was released, I would argue far better then when it was released and patch a few times.
COH 3 should of been the game we got when COH 2 was released.
I have a theory that it took a sacrifice from relic to realize that if the foundation works (coh1) build on that to keep your base happy, I'm not saying not to go find more players, but don't build a game for audience that either doesn't exist or wouldn't be interested in the first place like modern media with wokeism. What sacrifice do I mean? Dawn of war 1 to Dawn of war 3, enough said.
As far as war goes, it really is like MEN OF War where your troops sit in a bush and fire at range at each other until arty or Armor roles in and starts shooting again from a distance, its all just one giant wait until orders deal, that's great for realism but that is not gameplay and you will never capture that player base because of "realism", I play that game too and while I occasially like realism, its boring. Why go off on this tangent? Gameplay, matters just as much as realism and you need to find a balance, was the Panzer 4 a good tank? yes was it the god tier medium that is portrayed, no.
COH 3, sadly unlike my other franchise DOW, is finally coming home. It had its rebellious stage and its finally realize what matters. I think the only people who are going to get a shock and struggle with the transition are players who joined in at coh2 and the coh1 player base can finally come home too.
Cheers
Well said...CoH 1 was the better one, no contest!
@@Dake21 still play it, but lets also give credit where credit is due, Coh2 did a lot of amazing things, my hope is they combine what they learn over two games and make the ultimate coh
@@obi0914 We can hope CoH3 will be the ultimate combination of 1 and 2. A more cinematic camera in the campaign would be a good start, the first Omaha mission in CoH1 felt like Saving Private Ryan.
I'm a big fan of the original game, COH 2 was just ok.
So yes, I'd love for COH 3 to be a direct upgrade to the first game. But we'll have to see. Graphically at least, even with the supposed fixes, both look more or less the same to my eyes despite the 17 years time difference. So I'm not holding my breath!
But fingers crossed.
Couldn't agree more with your analysis that COH 2 kept getting worse and worse with all the balance patches. I remember when I first started COH 2 multiplayer as the wehrmacht and getting my ass handed to me over and over again by the soviet industry doctrine until I learned to counter it with assualt grens at the start and aggressively going after their infantry. Flavorful gameplay and doctrines that really shook up how you played like the osttruppen doctrine and elite troops got all their flavor and uniqueness gutted by balance patches and made unviable. Playing COH 2 today feels so bland compared to how it used to be. One of the reasons I hope to make the switch to COH 3 if the gameplay seems good despite the awful cartoonish graphics style.
If the mod support is on point it'll keep the game alive for sure
@Harvey Nash 100%, it's not even optional these days, they need to give the modders all the tools they need day one, it'll only ever have a positive effect!
@@twiglets2 wont' happen, because SEGA loves DLCs.
if a game needs mod support, then it's not good enough
@@Turican76 thats not true in so many ways, but i know what you mean.
Users shouldn't be responsible for unfinished games.
Game looks fun and interesting. After a long while I'm actually excited for a rts game. If Relic fails to balance and update the game, I'm sure modding community will do their best... like in so many other games.
@Toni_ I'm glad to hear your positivity! It's a shame we have to rely on the mod community as much as we do, but I'm glad they're there. Let's hope Relic up their game!
Don't trust them after what happened with DoW III
There are a lot of better RTS alternatives.
I think this is quiet an interesting video and there are quiet a few good points made.
For me as a player that has played 2000+ hours of Company of Heroes 2, the biggest reason why i am looking forward to playing a new CoH is the setting, the units and the seeming variety in approaching each game differently.
The sound and the graphics could be the same, i would still buy it and play it. It is after all my favourite rts series. Not because of the aforementioned, but the gameplay.
Coh2 has gotten quiet stale over the last few years, so anything new is welcome, at least in my opinion.
Regarding the mentioning and the comparisons between the Coh and the AoE franchise. I think those are bad.
For one, both AoE games are still getting updates and are being developed, which is the opposite to CoH2, which has not gotten any updates in quiet a while. As such, any player that does want regular updates, new content and so on will switch eventually. Even your hairy long fingered friend.
The other point is... AoE 4 is quiet a different game compared to AoE 2, played both of them and i think everybody can attest to that. It`s not just the graphics and the sounds and some zooming levels.
The differences between both CoH games are rather minor tbh, i think that CoH3 has a way better base than CoH2 had at launch and therefore far more potential. As such i will buy it on release.
And yes, CoH3 on release will have bugs and the balance will probably be a mess.
After all, we had the CoH2 sound bug for 5 years or smth and i did play a lot in the 2v2 ladder when the heavy tank meta was at it's most popular (which was rather unfun).
I am okay with that possibility, after all it is a franchise that i have enjoyed for thousands of hours regardless of these problems.
2000 hours is sh*t. you do realize that right?i seen enough players with over 5000 hours and still suck sht. your intelligence is not better, unfortunately
The thing is AoE has a way bigger fan base / player base so it will be successful regardless. It's enough for the AoE2 players to try a new game in the franchise and they are successful with the new title. With CoH there's a much smaller player base so they need to really make it good otherwise it can fail easily.
@@eygs493 That's a fair point, i agree that the ammount of hours somebody has played should not invalidate their feedback. Thank you for pointing that out.
Can't say much about my intelligence i fear, i have never tried grading it using the number of hours played in CoH2.
@@IamDalv That's certainly true, the AoE fanbase has been going for 20+ years and they lived off AoE2 for most of that.
CoH does not have that kind of loyalty, but i think that we have seen with CoH2 that each new CoH game is quiet good at aquiring new players. Some of the players from the previous game will move over too.
And if people moved to release state CoH2, then i am not too worried about CoH3, since it alrady looks like a more solid game to me.
@@MrMobo1111 Thank you for your positive feedback and further comments. I'm always happy to venture an opinion as long as it sparks a conversation / debate and your comment is exactly the sort I was hoping for. I must confess I hadn't realised CoH2 would be receiving zero updates going forward, something I would have certainly included in the video if I had! Thank you
One of the main reasons that RTS pretty much died is a genre is the lack of innovation, sequels of different RTS franchises before used to make a big leap in graphics and physics but gameplay wise they have already been the same. They reached a point where they pretty much peaked, CnC 3 from 2007 looks great today and still plays great, same with SC 2 and CoH 2, there's little room for improvement sadly.
@Victorforce I agree wholeheartedly. I have to say that the sound design in AoE4 pleasantly surprised me, I think they really upped their game on that one. But ultimately you make a very interesting point, I suspect much of the reason players are disappointed with CoH3 is that we are so used to graphical leaps each time a new game is made, and actually that doesn't seem to be happening as often or as much in general, and even less so for RTS games.
Something they could do that I believe Gates of Hell, does but I've never played that game before so jot entirely sure, is they could make a mechanic that allows the player to take control of one of the units in the game. Like a tank for instance, that way you can be both commanding the battlefield and playing a part in it yourself.
@@sisigs4820 That's a very fun mechanic in both Ostfront and the Men of War series. Tanks or infantry, it's great!
I did hope they might explore this, at least for the single player campaign, but they chose not to unfortunately.
@@sisigs4820 they tried it in CoH2 being able to direct the fire of certain squads and tanks in the campaign. It wasnt very good, but could be improved upon
Stormgate is hope.
Relic is not showing enough innovation and deliberately keeping the graphical fidelity bar too low. There are business reasons for this, and I hope it works out for them, but I can totally understand why many COH1/COH2 players look at what COH3 is offering and feel they already played it. I'm with them, and will wait on the side lines and see how things play out.
I'm curious what the business reasons are? I can only think that recycling the previous engine is cheaper than creating a whole new one?
@@twiglets2 Downgrading everything regarding visuals to make the game possible for consoles also, and keeping the two versions (console and PC) uniform.
@@therustler30 Ah yes that makes sense. And I wonder if they have an eye on the mobile market too now? Presumably easier to do if the graphics are toned down.
@@therustler30 i dont think graphics are downgraded, but they are more scalable, and honestly, that benefits me because my machine is rapidly approaching obsolescense
Besides, it might run on my steam deck
@@twiglets2 I also agree on for the studio they need to keep things playable at good framerates on somewhat older hardware that many people still use.
I have a 12700cpu and 3090ti gpu gaming rig but most RTS or TBS players are not running that level of hardware for a PC.
Honestly for most of my current gaming requirements my rig is way overkill for the games I am currently playing.
There is one small issue for me in this game. In COH2 or even in COH1, the debris of vehicles and other objects just stay in the map forever but in this game they seem to disappear after some time. I know this is a very very small thing but it just takes away the realism and ambience. Hope it gets fixed via mods.
@vivekantoni2134 Small things matter, and this represents the kind of detail players wish wasn't overlooked. I wonder if they did this to save on processing / graphical power, or to make it easier to port the game to mobile!
8:13 coh1 art style is the best of all.. and still looks amazing today
It was amazing, and so cinematic too!
AOEIV has received a fair amount of updates, new civs , new landmarks and balance patches.
It also has some of the best sound design i've ever heard when it cones to RTS games
its not enough we need Japan to make it great again.
@@peacemen6460 yeah there's loads of classic civs missing like japan, celts ect ect
Gotta say the sound design on AoE4 is insanely impressive. Which leaves me surprised at how CoH3 sound design is just a bit...boring! It's difficult to actually improve RTS games, but AoE4 smashed it with the sound design for sure.
@@twiglets2 i'm with you on that. When i heard this was a relic game aswell i was just in amazed how flat and boring the sound design was
Have they fixed the zoom out restrictions in AoE4 yet? I suppose I could re-install and take a look, but I played for about 4 hours and uninstalled due to that issue - haven't gone back to look.
OMG JUST REALIZED WHAT MADE COH1 SO MUCH BETTER THAN HIS OTHER TITLES. IT WAS TOTALLY THE LEVEL DESIGN . COH1 had a good cut for all his levels or almost all of them. Like short skirmishes. once a step was made, they cutted the mission. (Eg. Carentan, carentan counterattack that was the next mission) Also, it had things that pointed out the objective in a visual manner, not just historic but with like good demonstration of the capabilities of the enemy or the objective. Which coh2 didnt have and i havent seen in coh3. It's just not enought to make it hard for the player but to make it aknowledge it is a great mission you are being handed on.
I recall CoH1 being cinematic, it felt like you were there. CoH2 felt like I was observing, with less immersion.
Thanks, you described exactly why I like CoH1 better and I could never really put it into words. I have way more time in CoH1 than 2. 2 always felt "flat" to me and I couldn't figure out why.
@@JerfVR Flat is a good word for it!
@@twiglets2 That's a very good way to put it yeah, COH1 was definitely way more immersive than 2, which is unfortunate and I'm afraid 3 will be the same and worse.
@@colonelsmith7757 I haven't pulled the trigger on CoH3 just yet, I feel I should give it a try and report my findings for others to consider, but phwor that's a big price tag!
To the point of the dynamic campaign having pull, I'm primarily a CoH1 and DoW1 player and that campaign mode is probably 80% of the reason I'm even interested in CoH3. I love moving my pieces in a turn-based map tying skirmish matches together, as I'm generally a big campaign player but there's only so many times you can play the same linear campaign before getting bored, so if not for that addition, I would have probably written the game off as too Multiplayer focused like CoH2 was, which isn't what I'm looking for in a Relic RTS.
It sounds we have similar tastes in that case. I'm concerned about replayability. I'm playing Immortal Empires currently and can't see myself getting bored any time soon...will the Italian campaign offer anything like that kind of replayability? I suspect not, so I expect DLC's in the future for more money...mixed feelings about that one!
This is the first game I've ever preordered, since I saw it on sale through Fanatical. Played the tech test and loved it, already put 10 hours in. Made it hard to go back to COH2
I'm glad to hear it! Was there something in particular about CoH3 that felt like an improvement over CoH2?
@@twiglets2 Honestly, it's funny but those little QOL changes you mentioned - auto-vaulting, auto-reinforce, plus the large changes, like squads taking longer to die (less micro needed), longer time with light/medium vehicles, improved realistic vehicle damage model so that tanks are damaged by 20mm/30mm rounds (just reading about a Canadian Sherman in Operation Husky that exploded after a lucky pen from a 20mm round). Feels better than CoH2 in most ways
@@Zombiefruit Perhaps I was too harsh on those changes, lots of little changes can add up to one big improvement after all. I'm excited to give it a try but might wait a few months for the first sale, let everyone else figure out the issues first haha
sound like relic dev or shopping tv
@@Turican76 lol
COH3 = Best of COH1 + Best of COH2
And then add on top developed for modern age gaming of regular patching and content.
This game will do very well. The recent multiplayer test proved the gameplay is excellent. The game will of course go on sale, and possibly fairly early, but if you are a keen fan, you will want to play day 1 and likely play for years so the value is easily there.
@firstspar I truly hope you are right! I always enjoyed CoH1 more than CoH2, so to hear you say that is music to my ears
I agree as I try both before their release date and coh 3 feels done and far superior.
CoH1 has better effects sund sounds ...what a fail
@AF You must have a copy already available to you and have hit the top 100 in rank. Of you course you have because you wouldn't be the type of person who is full of shet and doesn't know what they are talking about now would you.
I don't think they wanted to attract the Total War Warhammer playerbase with the introduction of dynamic campaign, they are just returning to their roots. Relic already did that with the Dark Crusade DLC for WH40K Dawn of War back in 2006 and it worked. I'm surprised they haven't done that for previous CoH titles already given the popularity of the Dark Crusade..
Ardennes assault also had a campaign map
Dark crusade is one of the best campaigns for an RTS, second yo Rise of Nations
And Total War had it since 2000, so even the campaign map in Dawn of War was "ah, so like in Total War".
Okay, loving the Rise of Nations reference here but I didn't know Dark Crusade did this?!?!!? THANK YOU!
@@twiglets2 Dark crusade was a huge step forward for the DOW franchise, lots of replayability and had a good storyline for the factions, DOW2 tried mixing COH combat style (cover, smaller squads, the cap and resource points changed) with an RPG character management and wasn't that good, DOW3, well, it's the franchise killer, hated that game. Wish they brought back DOW1 base building and squad style with also the hero mechanic of DOW2, would be an awesome game and probably a way to bring back the DOW IP.
never been big into CoH but I was mildly interested but the games tone just feels completely off for a WW2 game aesthetics are a big thing for me and the trailer had me on the fence looking like a disney movie set in WW2 but now seeing gameplay i have lost most of my interest
and you sir, are a normal human being with normal intelligence
@Glumbus I can understand that completely. CoH1 campaign was a very interesting and cinematic story, but on the whole CoH is not there for gritty WW2 aesthetics. Then again, I always enjoy Men of War or Ostfront for that! Wouldn't mind hear more about Men of War 2.
It looks like a mobile game
CoH3 is an investment in the CoH franchise for the next 10 years, at least. So it doesn't make any sense to get stuck in CoH2.
60 dollars for 10 years of CoH seems like a deal.
That's what they said about Destiny and Anthem as well and look how that panned out.
@@ninochaosdrache3189 Yes but we are dealing with Relic on their main IP of Company of Heroes. Plus Company of Heroes II had a long support cycle that kept the game balanced and updated. Combined with the fact they are closely paying attention to their audience, this game is a good deal in the long term.
Bro you already know that they gunna release premium DLC over 10 years so at least start the game off at a decent price.
Destiny and anthem is such a dumb comparison to COH franchise and Relic also has a much better track record as a developer.
I have never ever looked at anthem. That was obvious trash. Destiny was good but destiny and COH is so different no point in discussion.
I wasted many hours on Anthem, oh dear what was all that about!
the saturation seems slightly darker in that before/after photo but that's really the only difference I'm noticing. It didn't really improve the shadows on vehicles, which is the real issue for me. They look out-of-place.
I couldn't see a big difference either, so I'm going to withold judgement until the game is released. I have to say I'm struggling to believe it will look massively different though...!
CoH1 was a movie, CoH2 was a game, CoH3 is a mobile game.
Wow, that is an interesting thought indeed...
I'm excited personally, already preordered and after the tech test any linger doubts are gone; I'm fully willing to put up with some early teething because I trust relic to keep polishing the game. As long as it's not a broken unplayable mess (it already isn't) I'm not too bothered by the devs taking their time to update the game
I'm glad to see your positivity! I truly hope they make a success of it. I've heard many players say they are already happy with the core gameplay, so it sounds like there will be many players as soon as it releases.
Remember, never pre order
the intro would be unwarranted if we where in 2014. forespoken, callisto protocol, overwatch 2, FNAF Security breach, black for blood, battlefield 2042, cod mw2 re, cod van, cod cold war, cod black ops 4&3, cyberpunk, halo inf, fallout 76, anthem, last of us 2, Warcraft reforge, diablo immortal, elder scrolls blade, Command and conquer mobile game, Master chief collection, battlefield V, pubg, dawn of war 3, halo wars 2, evolve, and may more.
We are in the dark age of triple A but the silver age of indie. Lack of trust from the "gibbon" is not out of no where, it was earned.
(all of this does not apply to Nintendo, from soft and other smaller triple A studios) (Edit Nintendo is not included when I said other smaller triple A studios)
I'm actually new to these types of games, after I played Sudden Strike 4 and heard that there will probably be no other sudden strike so I found this game, and when I played the playtest I fell in love with it. If there would be something to complain about is probably how the tanks look, I'm not a big fan of the blue ribbon around the barrel and around the tank but I guess that could just be me. I already pre-ordered it so that wont be a problem anymore. I'm excited to play it!
I hope you enjoy it! The blue ribbon is what many players are concerned about, though there are other areas in the visuals of the game that have a similar problem, and look a bit cartoony as a result. I hope we all enjoy it!
@@twiglets2 Glad I wasnt the only one that didn't really like it!
It looks like it was made for the mobile market and to play on any system.
The mobile market seems to be an obligatory destination these days, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if that's why they did it that way!
@@twiglets2 They are making games that revolve around micro transactions and revenue.
In my opinion, the industry has lost its way.
Now it feels like walking past a sandwich shop with a sign in the window saying, “Sandwich: For Only 1 Credit*”. However you go in, not realising fillings are excluded because you’re bone idle. You become so super hyped, your greedy little brain goes nuts ordering everything.
Eventually you sit down, begin to eat and it’s F”””ing minging. You say, “Never again, will I fall for that snide trick” only to be in another sandwich shop 3 days later because you didn’t learn your lesson.
1 credit = £1, €1, or Zimbabwe 100 trillion*
Exactly. I can see this game being rammed with micro transactions
Remember, no preorders.
Amen, still feeling the sting from Cyberpunk.
When you said Men of War and ostfront players it made me chuckle. I’ve put more hours into the Men of War series as a whole because each release is always more enjoyable than the last. However I’ve always enjoyed CoH as a franchise for its single player content, I never really got into multiplayer for it as it can be one of those games where you mass produce one unit and dominate. I’m optimistic about coh 3.
@Cromwell I'm glad you spotted it, I felt I should include a nod to my MoW and Ostfront brethren. I'm similar to you with the single player content. I have probably racked up more hours in multiplayer than I realise but I maintain that the CoH1 campaign is one of the best single player experiences out there. I hope they do it again with CoH3!
Has Ostfront had a RobZ style mod which lets you take the unit shooting to infinity? MOWAS without RobZ just feels wrong now lol.
@@herbertpocket8855 Robz is part of the development team for Gates of Hell
I'm excited for the dynamic campaign. It isn't about enjoying the gameplay of the overworld map, it is about mixing up the engagements you encounter in the ensuing skirmishes. Getting to modify which types of troops you bring into the battles, what sorts of upgrades you have access too, what sorts of companies you get, and having more varied objectives, maps, and opponents in those skirmishes. I'm a player who plays mostly against the AI, just because most of the time I'm not interested in a sweaty multiplayer match. But the AI can get boring in these games, so having more variety and new challenges has me excited.
Also, it's already obvious from the tech test that there is more variety in the factions, and more ways to play than in COH2. It might not seem like much has changed, but if you're a player who plays COH2 constantly, then I imagine the game will feel worth it, even if it is only a small upgrade.
I'm also excited about the dynamic campaign. I've never really gotten into RTS games because the multiplayer always seems so difficult to get into and the story missions in DOW and COH are just boring and are not at all a great way to get you acclimated to skirmish style gameplay, imo. I think this game could be the one that could make me make the plunge.
@@dafaq7561 multiplayer in most rts games seem to be all about abusing mechanics
I expect this sort of "controversy", and also expect it will be mostly sound and fury signifying nothing. Some people will never be happy with a sequel that isn't an exact clone of its predecessor. There was a loud contingent of plyers who declared that they would stick with CoH1 come hell or high water. But it's the competitive scene that makes and keeps the buzz, and 2 soon overshadowed 1 in that regard.
Furthermore, Relic kept patching and balancing the game right up until recently. They never abandoned it. It would need to be catastrophically, humiliatingly bad for them to do so.
Relic know it is impossible to please everyone and they are simply inured to the fact that some fraction of people will never be happy with anything new. That's just an incontrovertible fact. They were pleased with their mud tech, but the players hated it, so they took it out. I think this was a mistake; it made the game both more realistic and more interesting. Too many players would, if they could, play on a flat empty field, because it limits variables and randomness. But I think this is a mistake both in terms of gameplay and realism. They do listen, they are responsive, but making one person happy can easily annoy another.
They will never be able to please everyone, they know that, they aren't going to lose any sleep over it. They would have to stuff up terribly to not be confident of taking most of the player base over to the new game; even most of the reluctant ones will come after their butthurt wears off.
I hope you are right about the player base moving over. Not that I want CoH1 or CoH2 to become a ghost town of course.
As a Coh 1 player, i'm sort of skeptical. I played 1000's of hours of CoH. I feel like they're finally in the right direction with being able to define hotkey's, but the UI feels like it needs to be updated. Most people play with their left hand on the wasd area of the keyboard and the 4x3 hotkeys should reflect that. They should also be on the left hand side and the minimap on the right. It just feels behind the times. Hopefully there are some ui options with it. I'm hoping it's good, Unfortunately during the MP beta i was out of town away from a pc so wasn't able to participate. So looking forward to info once it comes out this month.
@Turvok we must keep our fingers firmly crossed. A flexible UI would be a great addition to the game. Personally I like using WASD to move the camera, which I know will slow me down but it's just what I'm used to. I hope I can do that when the game releases.
I will say that CoH 3 brought some of the best elements of both CoH 1 and CoH 2 :
- The territory system of CoH 1 which is displaying fuel and munitions sectors across all around the map and cut off points with manpower only which makes the resources production evenly across the frontline instead of having just 2 fuel points and 2 ammo points only in CoH 2
- the permanent upgrades from CoH 1 : in CoH 3 you have permanent upgrade from the base instead of being locked behind commanders, like adding more abilities, increasing veterancy etc but for all factions this time.
- Vehicle HUD damage criticals from CoH 1 : now they brought back how the damage critical are displayed in the HUD like a damaged engine, tracks etc.
- Commanders variation from CoH 2 : CoH 3 will definitely have more diverse commanders to play across all factions.
- Picking the commander's tree units/abilities from your own choosing like in CoH 1 but with a xor function, like you pick either abilities and it will lock the other one and vice versa, increasing its replayability by playing the same commander but with a diverse meta with different units/abilities. In CoH 2 you unlocked the commander's tree the linear way only.
- Unit variation like in CoH 2 : CoH 3 have many more units, baseline as well from the commanders, it is actually nice to get various infantry squads/tanks etc. But one big important category of unit missing from the UKF faction in CoH 3 is a tank destroyer as a baseline unit (they showcased the Archer but i think it is locked behind a commander)
- Population cap set 100 as default from CoH 2: the population cap is an important feature from the CoH franchise, if they brought back the same pop cap mechanics from CoH 1, i'll be getting out of there.
- Units calls in like the Tiger from the DAK requires only manpower to call it, it reminds of the 1000 manpower double panther call-ins from the PE faction or the 800 mp tiger from wher from CoH 1. in CoH2 you need both fuel and manpower to call-in tanks. EDIT : they released a new patch recently, now the Tiger (both from Wehr and DAK) also requires fuel to call it.
All in all, i think CoH 3 can bring the best from both of the previous game despite little innovations that Relic has made.
Interesting! It will certainly annoy players who only love CoH2 but it seems the best of both worlds is the only way forward, and may attract many new players too
@@twiglets2 Exactly, making the same iteration of a game including its core gameplay mechanics despite the little innovation it gets will attract new players nonetheless.
There are many COH single player fans that have never played in an online capacity with me being one of those.
COH3 looks to have some good additions to the single player side of things including the tactical pause feature which many have wanted for a long time.
Also adding in future dlc missions, units and even possible factions can keep the income stream viable to continue to see new content created and added to the base game which for many buyers offers more value than a franchise that continues to have a new game rather than update the existing game.
Another thing is if you want the franchise to continue to have teams working to improve and add new content to the game then the game needs to be a money maker to make it worthwhile to the studio.
Advising people not to buy at launch to save a few dollars on the purchase does not lend itself for the studio to commit much in the way of resources back into the game going forward.
I only have a few games I purchase at initial launch and pretty much buy all DLC content for and COH is one of those.
My pre order has been a done deal and paid for since last summer, it was a little bit of a bummer when the November launch was pushed to February but again I will do my best to support the studio for a game I like.
Again what the online player numbers do or do not do are not an issue for me as I only play single player.
first time coming across your channel, subscribed and notifications on. Can't wait to watch this channel grow. You're very good at what you do!
@jamesdemaio4938 thank you for your kind words! I hope you enjoy future videos, I do put a lot of time into them so it's great to hear you say that.
I have around 3,000 hours in coh2 and I am cautiously hopeful for Coh3, but personally I have minimal interest in the dynamic campaign.
For people like myself what kept bringing me back to coh2 and what will decide if Coh3 is a success or failure is solely on it's Multi-player experience. If Relic is consistent with new content and updates for Multi-player than I'll happily log 3,000 hours in coh3.
Which movie is the footage in the beginning from?
i did like demo and will play COH3 but the criticism levelled at is is valid . sound is flat . graphics simply should not be a downgrade from previous 2 titles .
I hope most players can look past the sound & graphics as long as the gameplay is solid. Even more, I hope they just improve the sound and graphics anyway!
@@twiglets2 my great hope is that they bring back soviets , despite current events and MOST importantly Japan !
@@devilsmessanger I've heard many calls for Japan, that'd be an exciting addition indeed! It's curious that they chose the Italian front over the Pacific, but then didn't even include Italy as a faction, which I'm sure would have been possible...!
TFW there is no link in the description below for my perusal.😐
Thank you for reminding me, I'm such an idiot! They are all there now :)
as a total war player, dynamic map does interest me
I've spent countless hours in CoH 1 and 2, and am not very impressed with what I've seen for CoH3 so far. I'll be on the sidelines and let others dig in before making a decision.
"my mAan" - i forgot where this sound coming from. but i agree with you
I wasn’t either until playing COH3 in the tech test. The game has an incredible base to work off and will be far more improved in the next couple years.
@@jeremyj5932 I'm glad to hear you think so, and many others agree from what I've read. As much as visuals shouldn't matter all that much I think a slight improvement will bring a lot more players onboard and the game will flourish.
I'm a little more concerned about how quickly the balance updates will be released though!
I've played COH and COH2 and after playing a short time with the play test last month I can say that when the game got going the visuals were a non factor, audio did feel quiet.
I agree, those who are die hard COH2 players may trial the game at discount or free weekend but return to their point of comfort, much like those who did it in COH when 2 released.
I like the parallels to AOE4 and as someone who has played that game consistently since launch, the updates have been consistent and appropriate. The massive update with new civs also breathed life into it.
Also, relic and Microsoft have made it profitable for the pro players by putting out large tournaments with a prize too good to pass on, I see that as a way to keep player base interested at this point in time.
I think the COH3 player base as largely those who really enjoy RTS and are looking for another option. Unfortunately those who pay full price at launch will likely receive a beta product, but if updates are quick and appropriate then it is what it is with a game that has competitive multiplayer in mind.
to me the graphical problems weren't really a big issue after they showed the improvements to lighting and weathering, the main problem i have with the game is that the factions are a near copy and paste of coh2 with the same america, britain, (russian) vs the different flavors of germany it's almost like relic is doing this on purpose intentionally keeping the other axis nations out of circulation(why they would do this i have no clue). especially the Afrika korps which was basically promised as a reskin of coh2 OKW, and coh1 panzer elite . They did change the british and americans a little bit but i really didn't see a huge change in how they played during the multiplayer tech test. i was really hoping to get a new unique faction for both allies and axis which had a very different a distinct playstyle but it seems the desire to keep the same formula that they know works and keep copy and pasting it won. hopefully the add some variety to the factions later down the road in a dlc or update
I'm with you here, a bit disappointment. It's time a game was made that explored other factions in the war. Okay, maybe they need to be fleshed out in some cases, but there are definitely armies that had enough of their own equipment to be included.
Maybe next time!
Let us not forget the most important issue THERE IS NO ITALIAN FACTION AT LAUNCH
An Italian faction would have been so cool! Have they promised one for later? I missed that if they did.
@@twiglets2 i have not heard much of it was so sad back in coh2 when i heard they were going to add another axis faction and i thought to myself THIS IS IT no other european faction could work better than italy but much to my chagrin it was just the damm germans with another coat of paint
Chances are they will not add a dedicated one which pains me so much as i have played the combined arms doctrine during the test and i was playing with solely italian units and it was a lot of fun people need to understand that the majority of axis forces in north africa were italian and not german but everyone just fetishises Rommel and his Afrika Korps
When it was just that a Korps the italians were the ones to have a faction WITH a damm Afrika Korps Doctrine instead of the other way around but god knows lelic is tone deaf so i am not holding my breath for this game i could care less for the sounds and everything else just give a dedicated italian faction with ONLY italian native units is that really so hard to ask for from a million dollar gaming company jesus christ
@@ACCB710 Although I'm sure there would have been challenges, including an Italian faction would have been very impressive and headline news. It seems they missed an opportunity!
@@twiglets2 very much so and as far as challenges go italy had more than enough vehicles and equipment that could fit every role even though some were not really produced or had great impact having a fully fledged one would be amazing rather than going the pathetic route of just painting an italian flag on a german panzer if i wanted to play damm knockoff germany i would just play Germany use things like the Trombocino and P44's italy had the designs at least if we can have suspension of disbelief to have jagdtigers which were hardly ever used we can have the same logic to ensure italy would become a viable and fun unique facrion all its own... instead this i what we got and i am furious about it
CoH3 looks interesting but I will wait for a discount and let others test the water XD
COH 1 is still my favorite. It felt heavy and paced well. Only play COH 2 because servers were shutdown for 1. Games these days feel so faced paced to me.
I was hoping that the CoH3 campaign would feel more like CoH1, but from the reviews I've seen so far, the campaign in CoH3 is underwhelming. I hope those reviews are wrong, but it doesn't look good!
The dynamic campaign is actually the primary selling point to me. I am a big fan of CoH 2 and Total war but ultimately the dynamic campaign concept preceeds Total War by a long shot and can be seen in many different series and genres. A great example is the original BF2 with its Galactic Conqest mode that was good but unfortunately half baked, Dawn of War DC. CoH 2 tried it with Ardennes and again it was half baked as shit. Dynamic campaign modes to me always sing to me as an excellent model campaign and two examples show the idea isnt a stranger to relic - but they have to go all out. Replayability, role playing, dynamic warfare and another layer of strategy not seen in RTS games like CoH2 - logistics.
@DanB It's an exciting prospect, the in particular I hope they nail the replayability aspect, but as it stands I'm trying not to get my hopes up!
@@twiglets2 Relic is something of an L studio these days so I am also anticipating an Age of Empires 4, its "aight" kinda reception
@@danb4900 Agreed, that's what I would put my money on. Their marketing is decent so will generate initial interest no matter what, but player retention? Now that'll be interesting to keep an eye on!
I like to think I'm closer aligned with the gibbon when it comes to the whole screeching that can happen over the communities of each Company of Heroes title. Your video has been a relief to watch as while I personally hold a fairly pessimistic view on CoH3 you have convinced me that whatever comes, it will likely still be an acceptable addition to the series. I don't really care for the graphical area of a game so much a strong cynicism that came with Relic's handling of CoH2 and base my low expectations from their responses over the years. CoH2 came out as something of a flop due to a bad wrap around its campaign, but what really kept its head pinned under the water was just the overall slow update and the developers taking years to implement very basic improvements and promises. I haven't seen anyone specifically mentioning this, but there was a great fuss and a promotional video that Relic once put out to improve the god awful RNG item drop that the game originally had. Nowadays, we have an actual progress bar for reliable item drops, but that took years! YEARS! You'd think something so simple ought to be out in at most a month or so after the announcement, but that was not the case. Maybe the Relic for CoH3 will treat the game with more enthusiasm and help change my impression on them. I sure as hell hope that I'm wrong as a gibbon and that there's something to look forward to by the end of the year.
It would be very interesting to hear the conversations at Relic, how they decide what to prioritize and why it takes so long to release basic updates...I'd like to be a fly on the wall!
I think the entire playerbase from COH1 is still disappointed that COH2's campaigns were not as interesting or varied, I know I am.
Call me a Gibbon or else, but they won't see my 60€. Forcing myself to enjoy the demo, which I didn't, after have almost 5000 hours in COH2, it's a big sign to me. Don't spend your, mine, money in this game, it may have the Coh brand, but have nothing to do with coh2, the game I really love.
I'm curious what you thought about CoH1? Many players are saying CoH3 is more like CoH1 than CoH2, which some may say is a good thing, or a bad thing!
@@twiglets2 I stopped playing Coh1 the day coh2 came out, I never played the game again, I got hooked by coh2, I liked the variety that the commander system gave, I liked the mechanics and rhythm of the game . My problem with coh3 is that I didn't feel the same appeal, I know it was a demo, but there's something, I'm not even sure what it is, that doesn't attract me to the new game. Maybe it's the tall buildings, lots of colors, the units are diffuse, they blend in with the environment, to many colored information , I don't know.
@@macaconuu Perhaps CoH2 will maintain a strong player base (I'm certain it will) while CoH3 appeals to a slightly different kind of player. Who knows, both games may perform well for the next few years and that turns out to be a win for everybody (especially Relic!)
Ah. These are the folks that did AoE4? I played that just long enough to not be able to get a refund - that max zoom out restriction is claustrophobic, jus' sayin' ... and now the buzz is the same issue is in CoH3? Hmm. Was planning to get this on opening day, but think I'll sit it out and see what happens.
They sure are! As I understand it, once they were finished with AoE4 many of the developers moved over to work on CoH3. Although they are of course different games, I have a feeling we will see many similarities between them. Both good and bad!
Total war hasn’t been good since shogun 2
You're not the first person to say that!
You're making excuses for them.
"They'll fix it by release date" yeah, i've heard that before... Once they have your money they're good.
I really hope you're wrong, but I have a sinking feeling you may be right...
I pre-ordered CoH 2 for $45 in April 2013 through GreenManGaming. I haven't seen CoH 3 on there, though.
Really enjoyed the original COH, COH2 felt too... "Shiny" for me, COH 3 looks like Civ 6
Haha like Civ 6, now that IS an interesting thought now that you mention it...
Yeah dont care for the graphics. Gives it a more childish atmosphere.
They need to do a lot to rebuild trust after the fiasco that was Dawn of War 3.
100%, I hope CoH3 will rebuild some trust, it has to!
Im what you would call a very old school vet of company of heroes, from the times before steam, before opposing fronts, tales of value and mobile version.
i was pretty excited for COH2, i played a lot of it, and still do, i also still play me some COH1 moded (blitzkrieg), i kind of disliked COH2 stupid commander system and i can only play it with mods now.
im very excited to play COH3, the new campaign seems like a mix of elements of total war and regular COH, and i love that idea, all the quality of life improvements from COH2, bigger scale and this very dinamic campaign with a lot of freedom, seems like a great idea, and the new setting is also intresting and im ready to explore.
@ian duarte I'm glad to hear it. An opinion that is coming through all of these comments is that CoH1 is going to be a big part of CoH3 which couldn't make me happier.
COH 2 couldn't pull me away from the first COH...this looks even worse.
I like your style, sticking with what you like rather than following the crowd.
We will see if they fix the graphics. We will see.
COH series serious need are : "Remove the damn Paint XP colours out of the Units and map"
I have zero faith in Relic
same here
Goodbye then. You won’t be missed.
@@jeremyj5932 lol u mad
They should probably be graded a C- for AoE4 but I hope they've learned lessons and will improve for CoH3, oh and Homeworld 3 too!
@@twiglets2 i hope they learn too. Just after DoW3 they haven't done anything that makes me feel like they can. Like 343 Industries, nearly a decade of no progress isn't inspiring to me.
The lighting is too light for a war game, need a bit more grittiness and darkness, COH3 have the style of a modern warfare rts
its the geographical setting. mediterranean is warm, italy is known for its bright roofs and flowers, the wanted to match it, when you are outside in a wam bright day your eyes have problems to adapt often times, thats why its warm.
It's an interesting point. Gritty WW2 aesthetic vs lush Italian landscape. Perhaps, ultimately our perception is wrong and both are a little unrealistic!
dynamic campaign? i mean that is if you want it to be a upgraded Dawn of War Dark crusade map, which was a lot of fun, and easily the thing that would make me buy the game
I'm hopeful the dynamic campaign will attract players who aren't looking for the multiplayer skirmish, if it isn't too buggy!
I feel like most of these complaints are people hating something at first then being indifferent and maybe even like it once they understand them
I actually didnt know there will be a campaign map like total war series. This has now bump my hype a lot up and I will be buying the game at release. I liked Ardennes Assault a lot.
It looks promising! They have made big changes in the development of the campaign map, I think they are listening to the feedback so I hope they do a good job :)
I just hope the game is good, I'd love to play a new rts with my friends that ain't hoi4 or aoe2.
it will not
My fingers are crossed!
1:21 - I guess she was a resistance fighter (doubt especially back then with the lack of digital media you'd just know how a gun works).
As far as your point you made there "will it tempt CoH2 players". Well I'll stick to Coh2 until I see T-34 tanks or Katyusha rocket launchers (my go to weapons in Coh2).
Any proper WW2 game includes as many people from around the world as it can (seeing that it was called WORLD war 2, not European War 2".
And yeah, even Company of Heroes 2 felt lacking in that regard. So to be honest I haven't played Coh2 since the release of Steel Division 2 and Hearts of Iron 4.
Sure Italy is in now, but it lost a much larger component of WW2 and we still haven't seen the other major player Japan yet, so . . . Not interested for those reasons.
Steel Division 2 gave me all the vehicles and factions than any Coh2 game as ever given and more. Hell even South Africa is a playable faction in Steel Division 2.
And Hearts of Iron 4 lets you play as any nation in the world that existed during that time period and even make new ones.
So yeah, for Coh3 to attract me it will have to offer more gameplay and gameplay variety that those games.
(I mean you're asking me to stop playing those games and come play Coh3, then it has to be better than they are)
And I haven't even mention the Total War series (can't wait until they do something historical with gunpowder again).
So no one will understand what I’m about to say but, there was an Axis and Allies video game published by Atari in like, the late 90s or early 2000s that had a campaign almost exactly like this one. Armies were literally pieces on a board that you could add units to and move into tiles to begin battles. It was a great little game but seems to have gone almost completely unnoticed in its time, I was lucky and found it in a bargain bin while on vacation with my family and my dad bought it for me because he didn’t want to pay the price for the actual board game.
That sounds like fun! I hope they recreate what made that game fun in the CoH3 dynamic campaign
i know im exited if the fix it up properly im glad they took it to italy
I am veteran of Coh2 and in the competitive community, I think Coh3 looks great. The change to grid keys is a huge quality of life. I played roughly 18 hours of the multiplayer demo and me and my friends respected it’s progress. last minute polishes are not something i’m worried about.
🧢
@Ben Wilson I'm glad to hear this positivity. I would like to ask why you think so many of the CoH2 community are not so positive about CoH3? I only say this based on reading many comments and therefore a general idea of what players are feeling at the moment.
I have purchased all CoH titles and dlc with excitement. But will prob pass on this one. Coh 1 still looks better imo. Just look att that awful tiger..
Is there anything that will persuade you to buy CoH3 at full price?
@@twiglets2 i dont think i will buy it even at a discount. The franchise is something else nowadays, the realism feel in CoH 1 will be missed.
@@borjebeck2511 I hear you, would I be right in thinking you enjoy Gates of Hell Ostfront? I know many players have made the move over to that game instead now.
All could be happy if relic would allow free modding. But they don´t care about that since COH 2 (just restricted). Brilliant vid. Thank you.
Thank you!
Pc games were 50 in 1982 when I first started buying them. The fact they pretty much stayed the same price all these years while everything else in all of reality has quadrupled in price means they are a bargain at 60 now.
That's interesting as I recall in the 90's many "big" games were around £25 so I guess $30 equivalent, though my exchange rate may be very out of date there! I'm thinking of Command and Conquer Red Alert for context...
I guess it is time to go back play COH2 again.
Coming from AOE, AOE4 support started off slow and the launch was pretty unbalanced, but I have to give credit where credit is due. They've done pretty well over the last year with balance, seasonal updates, update previews and hotfixes.
AOE4 is in a really good spot right now balance wise, but their player numbers are struggling to grow.
Never really played Company of Heroes but have consistently bought every Total War game. When I played CO2 I loved the campaign and its missions so when I heard CO3 had a Dynamic Campaign it just sealed the deal for me.
I'm glad to hear it! Do you think CoH3 will appeal to other Total War players?
Would've preferred the Pacific Theater but Italy and North Africa is good too. Also I 100% think they are telling the truth when they said they couldn't currently do the Pacific Theater justice. Maybe someday in the future.
If you want a taste of the pacific theater in an RTS, Men of War Assault Squad has you covered. However, the Japanese are an extremely weak faction due to their armor being horrible, automatic fire being limited, and support equipment being extremely situational. The RobZ mod tries to fix this with more experimental units but they are no match for the Americans.
I was really annoyed at first about the cartoon graphics, but after taking some time to chill out, I realized i can look past the graphics and still enjoy the game. My favorite game series has been COH for years and really looked forward to this release. I've come to the realization that COH2 is just so awesome there's no way to create something better, so no matter what, people will still be dissatisfied with COH3. I'm sure the creators are under a lot of pressure and are doing their best so I do feel for the guys in the trenches, but money is tight these days, I'm just not impressed enough to spend so much money on a video game that doesn't blow me out of my seat. I'll have to wait till it drops a bit.
I think that's a core issue for many, the price tag is very high. Of course, it's quite a standard price these days, but it's very difficult for a game to be worth that price tag too! I do hope there's a 10% or 20% sale in 2023 so players can pick it up cheaper.
I'm a huge COH fan and honestly might seem to be odd one here, I'm so So Happy COH3 is coming to Console. That was like a dream of mine With COH1&2 and DOW 1&2.
(Sorry while I play alot of PC games I just prefer Chilling with a controller I'm my hands looking at a big screen).
So fact COH3 will be on Consoles all I care about is that it is well optimized and the Controls work great lol, I'm very stoked for this game honestly, however I do agree that COH2 does look visibly much better
It'll be interesting to see how it works on console! Apparently Age of Empires 2 works very well on console so perhaps the same will be said for CoH3!
coh was the gold standard after dow for rts... the pvp for coh had me hooked for a while. watching highly competitive matches with the og cast was nuts... when coh2 came out 10 year later there was no way it could live up to expectations even if they made the game for ten years.
@newinhuman you've made me think, are they trying to make the same game over and over? Perhaps coh3 is trying too hard to be like 1 and 2 when what we need is something different ...just a thought!
@@twiglets2
worst problems still linger... do jeeps over infantry ? no, they path block
@@newinhuman it's quite amusing when you think back to their marketing before the game released, making it look amazing
Coh 1 is a beat down broken car your grandad got you. It was great at the time and you look back on it with nostalgia. But coh 2 was the newer model of the same car. Coh 3 is just bad.
@@DustyPazner "CoH 3 is just bad" I wish this was was wrong! It's on 20% discount already, I bet that will be at least 30% by Christmas
Nice video man, I loved the analysis. I feel like COH and AOE cannot be compared, as AOE got a new game after like 15 years right? So their playerbase was cemented onto AOE 2, especially given the fact that the Definitive Edition of AOE 2 was so good.
I love COH though and I enjoyed COH 1 so much, but COH 2 not so much. Wondering if I should buy this one, I really want to. :D
I agree about AoE and CoH, it's also been pointed out that AoE2 is still being updated and CoH2 isn't, but at least it started a conversation!
Many are saying CoH3 has a lot of what made CoH1 so special, so maybe we have something to look forward to there!
@@twiglets2 Yess, you're right, it is still okay to compare the two franchises, especially given how Relic worked on AOE4 as well. I loved COH1 and have ordered COH3 anyway, haha. Wanna get into some tank warfare action again with new-gen graphics!
@@competitivegamingpakistan I hope you enjoy it! Maybe come back and let us know what you think when the time comes?
@@twiglets2 Yeah, I might. :)
$60? I wish...$99 for the cheapest version here in Australia on Steam...
They probably mean 60 american or british, which is roughly 99 Australian
My bad I wasn't more specific, most of my subscriber base are in the US!
this is a cool video. i myself am a little bit of a gibbon having over a thousand hours of multiplayer played. however i am super hyped and positive about coh3 and am going to buy it on first day because it looks fun and playable and i want to get a head start.
@Brad K I like your style. It sounds like you aren't hung up on comparing it to the previous title, I wish everyone was this open to change!
Relics response reads like a Corporate press release or a politician. Meaningful fixing of graphics is unlikely, but we can hope.
I was thinking the same, they're telling us what we WANT to hear, but actually improving the game is something else entirely.
Relic has always struggled with the pacing of updates. Over time with CoH they've gotten better with the community, but COH2 was a disaster. The competitive community structure is in place, I hope the ladder and observation systems are in place to let the game flourish. I want this game to succeed as well. Great content, thank you!!
Thank you! I was concerned this video would come across too negative, I definitely want the game to smash it, but also wary Relic will let themselves down with the updates. Let's keep the positivity going!
If they release modding tools for this and allow us to host our own servers then I will buy it even if it is exactly like CoH 1 or 2.
I would love a coh with modern armies and weapons.
Me too! It isn't quite the same but have you tried Broken Arrow? It had a free demo recently that people seem to have enjoyed. Modern setting etc
@@twiglets2 haven't tried it yet but just started looking into it, look's interesting and I will most likely buy it when it does release. Actually just got into Coh after having it in my library for a year or so and really dig the game but the WW2 stuff is so played out. I don't get the appeal of old weaponry but the mechanics and over all gameplay is great. I think if they did a modern take on it with more factions it would be a exciting fresh take on the title instead of this coh 2.5 fortnite edition .
@@luplewis9837 Oh wow 2.5 fortnite edition...I don't think I'm going to be able to forget that while playing CoH3 now!
Nothing will beat call to arms ostfront
It's set the bar high! The Ostfront campaign was such a great experience! Though I have heard the multiplayer needs work when it comes to performance, I assume CoH3 will have that covered already.
The only issue that bothered me was that the game's lighting actually looked downgrade compared to previous tests. If this is still the case, I'll just wait for the discount or choose aother game such as Gates of Hell or Men of War 2.
I wish they would hurry up with Men of War 2, we haven't heard anything from them for a while!
60 bucks getting rid a lot of bullshit in COH2 and returning the glory of COH1, why not?
I must agree CoH1 was a better game, that campaign still hits me in the feels!
@@twiglets2 Indeed, COH2 Russian campaign was a joke, it feels really really bad, full of anti-russian propaganda, killing their own people. war crime everywhere. Then the Ardennes Assault, were they really drunk enough not making the campaign on the German side? instead gaving us another boring American "skirmish" like crap.
This time they made the classic campaign for Rommel, finally the right choice.
@@straelboraaaa I'm excited for North Africa for sure!
If you want the success of rt you should know that, according to steam, most players do not exceed a gtx1660 card, a healthy ladder is the one that keeps rts alive, that any player finds a game in their elo, if they limit the number of players due to its technical demands and the ladder is scarce, people will leave even if it has spectacular graphics, the end. Note: I have 6gb of graphics and it is still not enough to put the graphics of the game aoe4 all to the maximum
I couldn't agree more! I don't know much about the technical side, but presumably the ideal scenario is a game that can be set to low graphics for everyone, and an ultra setting for those with the powerful PC's so everyone wins. Particularly on the dynamic campaign map where the PC will need to churn a lot.
I think that people are angry not because the devs are venturing into new areas, but because they consistently fail to learn from past successes and change things that shouldn't change.
Small example, but good in terms of the point I'm making: There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that the Marder model and texture from 2006 should look 100 times better than the Marder model and textures of 2023.
Nobody ever complained about COH1 or 2 models looking goofy and toy-like, nobody ever complained about not being able to identify a unit on a map by its basic shape. Everyone who plays RTS games has some sort of situational awareness and a basic understanding of where his units are, either by the models and colours, the icons, and by remembering where he left them.
It's the age-old adage that nobody wants to follow anymore, *don't fix what ain't broken.*
@colonelsmith7757 I have a theory that may explain the Marder situation which I'd like your opinion on.
In my view a game such as CoH3 these days is produced with an eye on as many platforms as possible, including mobile gaming. As mobiles are far less powerful than console or PC they have to purposefully "dumb down" the graphics to make the game more easily portable to the mobile platform, without having to do as much work / remodel everything. A one size fits all approach essentially.
I'll admit I know next to nothing about this situation, but to me it makes sense. Especially when you consider CoH1 was purely for PC whereas CoH3 will want to release on every platform possible, so the game is restricted by the least powerful of those platforms.
I don't think the game is even available on mobile (yet), but I bet they are keeping their options open.
Otherwise, I haven't a clue why the graphics look so....not 2023!
@@twiglets2 You wouldn't be far off and I'll tell you why.
It's not the first time that computer games have been dumbed-down and have suffered graphically because the developers wanted to include a release for far weaker systems like consoles.
This issue has affected games from Fallout 3 & New Vegas all the way up to Cyberpunk 2077 and many others among them.
As for mobile games, yeah, I wouldn't consider it such a stretch because around 15 years ago nobody would believe that PC games would get downgraded just so that consoles could handle additional content and graphics, and I do want to stress the word *content* here, because it wasn't just the graphics that were made worse/simpler on purpose, but a lot of content such as map locations, missions, weapons etc. was cut in the aforementioned games in order to save space for the console releases. CD constraints were also an issue back then; not anymore but stuff was still cut out of Cyberpunk for this reason, so go figure.
If you want my personal subjective opinion all I can say is how I feel, which is very disappointed, because even as a kid I felt that COH1 had soul, in the gameplay, in the graphics, in the voice acting, both the dramatic scenes and the more humorous voice lines from units that you spam-clicked too much.
I saw less of that in COH2 and even less in COH3.
I think the only thing that could save this new release would be full mod support, just like COH1 had, so the players can mod-in new vehicle models, new animations, new sounds, new icons, and not just be constrained by surface-level textures or "mods" that simply enable to field all units or "mods" that just change the damage output. Every "mod" from COH2 is nothing short of just fiddling with a few numbers and changing only vehicle textures, everything else is off-limits and I believe this really hurts the game.
@@colonelsmith7757 I couldn't agree more and thanks for sharing your opinion; let's hope that full mod support comes though I won't hold my breath!
£50 is just too high of a price tag for the current state of the game and what it offers. I was unbelievably excited for COH3 and my wary stance has only developed in the last couple of months. I love the setting and the potential, but right now it isn’t worth it. I reckon if they keep working at it and fixing minor issues and perhaps drop the price to £35-£40, eventually it will be worth it.
I had initially planned on buying it day-one, but now I have zero intention of doing that as of the time of writing this comment. Which sucks, because the Italian theatre is such an underused and under appreciated theatre of WW2, particularly from the dogged resistance the Allies met when they met the heavily fortified lines from the Gustav Line all the way to the Gothic, Genghis Khan and Po Lines. The campaign within Italy was incredibly bloody. They also have the potential for a DLC in North Africa or perhaps even Operation Dragoon.
Agreed, I can't see myself paying for it at £50, but hope for a discount and improvements in a few months. Perhaps a good one for the Christmas holidays !
That was great mate, subscribed
@Ian501st thanks!
I will spend 60 and ill tell you why. RTS's now a days are on the decline, it's by the grace of god that we are getting Homeward 3 and COH 3. Relic at least pretends to listen and they've said from the begging that they'll have the community in mind when making this game. They're trying. i enjoyed your video, good points very cohesive. cheers!
Thank you! I do give Relic a hard time, but they have my respect for sure. They listen and they are trying! I just don't want them to get too comfortable either!
Ok, I’ve committed maybe 20,000 hours of my short life to company of heroes games. If you put that in perspective, most hsrdcoreish gamers rack up 3 or 4k hours on games they love. I have 10k between both titles and I’m very ashamed of it.
Company of Heroes is so near and dear to my heart that, until this week, I have not looked at any of the gameplay, trailers, anything. I refused. Just because I get so jealous seeing other people play it. I’m a fanatic.
I’ve only started peaking these past few days. Everything I have seen has been spectacular, exactly what I’d want from the third title. I’ve set aside a week of time to exclusively play the game, telling family that I won’t be reachable. I am one hundred percent confident that the game will deliver in a massive way.
The issue I detected regarding company of heroes fans as they were divided between 1 and 2 had more to do with their taste in games rather than any substantive criticisms of the job Relic did on them. The controversy is regarding whether or not Company of Heroes 1 cinematic, historical saga full of movie references and iconic voicelines is better or if the coh 2 MLG style, progression/customization experience is going to serve the game’s fan base and momentum. To me, it’s been made abundantly clear by Relic that they are going above and beyond capitalizing on both those cardinal and distinguishing features of the series, fusing them in coh 3 to provide a gaming experience that services all the strengths, weaknesses, passions, and curiosities of all RTS gaming styles.
Relic is not some rando. They have been crystallizing the RTS formula for decades across two major franchises. Company of heroes 1 broke through the genre in a way that has left a resonant impact which can never be reversed. No studio does it better.
I know the game will be good because they’ve been delaying it. Every minute of footage I’ve seen looks flawless. It seems somewhat as though the unit variety is a little TOO asymmetrical, with rather esoteric units from the war being given roles that are disproportionate to their actual historical function. This may be an aesthetic issue, but it may turn into a balancing issue that will make the multiplayer scene hard to maintain. We will see.
Idgaf my hype train left the station as soon as this game was announced. I already pre ordered it and am excited!
Good for you! I hope you enjoy it, maybe come back and let us know what you think once you've had a chance to play it?
Tangy cheese Doritos? I've never heard of this
Oh they'll change your life!
We don't need to talk. You want to talk.
We don't HAVE to talk, but I do WANT to talk. I think we just agreed on something?
As someone who really likes tanks, I hate the vanilla tanks in CoH and on top of that infantry is not as squishy as they should be. Sometimes standing in front of each other, shooting for half a minute, befor someone is ded. Really don't like that. GoH Ostfront feels so much better.
And with the dynamic campaigne, this will be more like a one time playthrough, with no replay value.
I really hope for good mod support.
coh is an arcade rts, it's suppose to play out like that. I love GOH, and COH. COH shouldn't be compared to GOH
@@dreadedTanker3173 Agreed they cater to different audiences. Though it will be interesting to see if the mod community can create something from CoH3 that will attract Ostfront players.
blitzkrieg/spearhead fixes this
if there are no overhauls like these in coh3 im not touching it, vcoh gameplay was fun 15 years ago.
@@thisishuhwow god when spearhead dropped i played it once and never again. coh shouldnt be a 'realistic' game
Idk why people consider total war battles "RTS", its just an RTT
I guess it depends how literal you take the words "Real Time Strategy" to be. Fortnite is in real time, and is strategic if you wanted to get silly with it!
I think you can look to a franchise like Civilization... Every time a new version comes out everyone trashes it and says the older one is better, completely disregarding the YEARS of updates, DLCs and patches, much the same for Warhammer. I think HOI is a cool game but like the others of its kind it is VERY steep learning curve and for a lot of people is far to complex to really be considered a casual game. I have really high hopes for the Dynamic Campaign as it might offer a very happy and enjoyable medium between both HOI and Warhammer.
@Hoggle agreed, it's very predictable to see CoH2 trash CoH3 so can't say I'm surprised. I'm enjoying Warhammer 3 at the moment so hope to move over to the dynamic campaign for something similar in a different setting. We can only hope!
I'm actually someone who doesn't like COH1 or COH2 very much, because I don't like more "traditional" RTS games (Age of Empires, Command & Conquer, Starcraft, etc.), especially ones with base building. If I play "real-time" strategy games, it's going to be something like Men of War or Steel Division. Most other strategy games I play are turn or phase based. However, I'm part of what is likely a VERY select group of people that initially actually became interested in this game almost entirely because of the dynamic campaign. So while I guess there aren't a lot of people that may have been convinced by this feature, there is a least one here!
@robinmattheussen2395 Interesting! Could you go into some detail on what they've done well or not so well about the dynamic campaign?
I always thought the success of the game would come down to the dynamic campaign and whether they could pull it off to attract players like you
They should have made it an 60 dollar update.
i think this is the same question as will people that love Men Of War Assault Squad 2 buy Men Of War 2 ?
That is certainly an interesting question! Do you think they will?
@@twiglets2 To be honest they already have done it 2 times in the past, so a friend of mine who has an old laptop wanted us to play an old rts together, so i proposed to him men of war assault squad and then he said what about men of war? its only 4.99, so me being curious because the first game i played was assault squad 1 and after 2 said yes out of curiosity to see how the first men of war game was. and i was shocked to see its so similar to assault squad 1 and 2 in so many aspects i realized that ever since the golden era of gaming being for me 99s-2010, companies just reskin and reupdate old time classics , Counter strike, Call of duty , Battlefield , Assassins Creed, GTA series, Dead space very recently and many many other franchises , and in the end people always buy them sooner or later... there is very little Unique things and new titles that are fresh and present something else. So in my conclusion after a while when KOH 3 and Men of war 2 get some patches people will slowly start swimming there as they have done in the past. since companies now days most of the times release broken garbage that need a whole year of patching to be playable , and the people instead of doing something else than whine swallow this every fucking time and the Fairytale goes on and on....
@@Nēsan9304 I wish you were wrong, but all of that is SO right. How sad!
@@twiglets2 take an example out Total war war hammer, CA and SEGA sold the same game 3 times in pieces in less than a decade and split that game in more pieces with each title having their own DLC meaning if you want to have WH3 with everything included you are way past 300 dollars , and i see people praising them for how good and amazing they are its like matrix but people always take the Blue pill and stay inside it for ever, they are blind to the truth . Back in the day games did not have amazing visuals, but love and attention was put into them and most games at launch where stable and very enjoyable , something that is very rare today.
@@Nēsan9304 Absolutely it's like every game is an early access title now, except they want full price up front
I feel videos like this should wait for release. I get it. I know you need to pay the bills and thus make a video. That being said - hardly anyone has played the single player campaigns, and Relic has already addressed / begun working on concerns by the community. I had a blast with the multiplayer test and voiced my concerns in their provided survey afterwards. It's to receive such a quick response from a developer versus hearing nothing at all, which is what we usually get from other ones. Relic can't handle another DoW3 fiasco with the installment of CoH3, as it would kill the Company of Heroes franchise.
I preordered - yes, I don't care, $60 certainly won't kill me - and am optimistic. Listening to veterans of CoH, it sounds like CoH2 was an absolute - nearly unplayable - mess at launch. That is not even remotely close to what we have here which is more than playable. I remain optimistic, and hell if it needs work, so be it. I'm in for the long haul.