They typically can’t! The enroute controllers are monitoring a radar screen in a room somewhere, probably miles and miles away from this location. They are transmitting out of some antenna(s) centrally located in the sector and somewhere high up, probably also far away from the site. So even if they have the ability to receive/transmit on a secondary frequency, their big centralized antenna probably won’t happen to have line of sight to a random small airport low to the ground in their sector. Hope that makes sense!
@@scenicairways Yep, it's amazing how limited a radio can be. They could be pumping out 100K watts and a random hill can completely block the signal. Meanwhile a plane pumping out a few watts from their radio can reach super far, and is largely limited by weather conditions.
Yeah! Toledo is a small uncontrolled airport so there is no tower/ATC there. There is an FBO (essentially… gas station) there IIRC, so they could call them on the phone I suppose, but that would really start to get in the way of their main job. VFR flight following is an advisory service on a “workload permitting” basis so my understanding is even asking me to check on them is going above and beyond. If you have a flight plan open with flight services and forgot to close it though, they *will* call around and ask everyone they can, eventually escalating to sending search and rescue. Ask me how I know ;)
I have a feeling he was trying to get some brownie points for checking on his gf. This is a pretty good idea because it spares you the "would you love me if I was a worm" conversation later.
@@alexc9434it’s not quite as dangerous, I think, to have super concise coms as a civ whereas bad coms in war could get many many people killed whether we’re talking danger close air support or life saving rations and ammo delivery or medevac or what have you. Instead the only real danger in civ aviation is a collision which yes it’s imperative you avoid but it’s just about the only factor compared to the military. In high stress high stakes situations mistakes are deaths
I was flying 5 days ago when ATC asked me the favour of holding in a slow right turn while an RFDS and a Careflight Super King Air made their way into the field carrying patients. Could've landed before them and been clear of the runway but the controller was very glad not to worry about separation for those few minutes.
I think separation was the least of ATC's worries. Most likely those aircrafts were treated (almost) as emergencies, and the ATC's worry was the slight (but, still, NOT zero) chance that while on approach or landing you could f-up, or your bird could get a boo-boo, or whatever, and he would need to close the airfield.
@@bogdan_n The aerodrome I operate out of has 3 parallel runways running simultaneous operations, two 1.1km runways for small BLW 5700kg aircraft and one 1.4km runway for above 5700kg or turbine/jet aircraft. I could've landed on 11L and had 11C and 11R open to land on for them. I get without that context you can come to that conclusion but I believe it was a matter of separation since to join 11L final from the Western entry I need to cross the approach paths for 11C and 11R. since 11L is for arrival and departures, 11C is for the larger aircraft and 11R is for circuit training operations. If you're curious about the field it's Bankstown Aerodrome (YSBK) in Sydney, Australia.
I work hospitality but I'm a long time ATC fan. Our motto has always been team first, then service, then profit. Essentially, the people working alongside you are the most important thing, then the customer, then the money. I feel like this video demonstrates that perfectly. First comes the aviation team(s), then comes everyone getting places on time, and the money of it all is to be figured out by someone else. Beautiful work everyone. Respectful, kind, and efficient. If I ever get a team this good I'm thanking every God ever.
I love that, when ever I’m flying and hear RFDS coming in on ctaf, no matter what I always let them in and they greatly appreciate it. Makes my day when I can make their life easier. They do a lot for Australia 👌🏻
@@bogdan_ncan confirm, on critical jobs we (RFDS) would declare medivac status with ATC on departure and be given priority ahead of all other aircraft unless they’d declared an inflight emergency.
Why flight following is such a valuable tool... Had 91Juliet gone down in a remote area and not been on flight following, no one would have thought to start looking for her/them for hours if not days later. You may miss hand-offs like this (it'll happen a lot of you're in a helicopter flying
Curious in your experience when you drop off due to reception issue, have they ever checked in on you like this as far as you know, or do ATC usually just move on? My understanding is FF is advisory and on a workload permitting basis only, so while not ideal, if ATC lost comms with an FF aircraft there is no obligation on their side (everyone is going above and beyond here). If you want someone to actually look for you you have to open a flight plan with FSS, but curious in practice what tends to happen on FF drop out
@@scenicairwaysAt my center, if we lose comms with a VFR FF aircraft, we will try to reestablish communications if possible, and if not, continue to monitor the aircraft on radar to the destination. Then call the airport to verify they landed when we lose radar. So even if you don’t hear from us, we’ll typically still be monitoring you.
There was a news article a while back about a busted cesna stuck in a field somewhere that was relaying info through some other unknown aviator somewhere above him in northern California. Turns out it was a military training flight out of Beale AFB. A U-2 was passing traffic for some stranger, cause when you need help, you need help.
God damn i love listening to aviation comms. Its actually quite pleasant and calming hearing such effective and helpful communication. Wish other aspects of life had communication this concise and effective
I've flown to KTOL from 1G3 (Kent State University Airport) and it's an F-16 base, so the runway lights were absolutely BLINDING at night 😂😂 definitely ask tower to turn them down if your puttsing inbound in your little Cessna like me.
Good to see communication going on in the sky. Stay safe up there and for those wondering sky travel is just as dangerous as traveling on sea because if you go down you might go down in an unpopulated area and that can be days weeks or even months to find the site and that's even if your reporting your last position.
I was flying from north Carolina to Bermuda and a delta flight radioed me to see where i was, because atc couldn't contact me at the altitude i was flying at. Those comercial aircraft fly much higher and have a way better range.
I look forward to the day when the Dyson Sphere handles telecomms so that radio calls will be crisp and clear, and distances won't be an issue anymore so an aircraft can stay on one frequency for an entire flight. Think about it. If each aircraft uses a different frequency, there won't be interruptions.
I would guess they were previously on flight following but subsequently lost communication due to reception issue, or forgot to cancel FF before switching frequency.
I explained on a few other comments - not sure if operationally they are able to do that (without interfering with their main job), but even if they are allowed, their equipment doesn’t necessarily have line of sight to reach this random small untowered airport. It’s probably not that uncommon for aircraft’s on flight following to drop off without proper handoff, and if ATC is busy they would probably just move on since FF is advisory only on a workload permitting basis. So everyone is going above and beyond here. It’s also pretty common for ATC to ask pilots for quick favors like this. But for them to pick *me* on a day where I happen to have camera rolling and was able to keep my cool on radio? Well, that’s rare for sure!
I was in the back seat of a 172 and the two pilots up front were NOT prepared for the weather and conditions for making a night time landing IN weather to an uncontrolled airport in the mountains. Center lost contact with us and an airliner above us was asked to contact us. The airliner reported we were down. Center came back and said "what do you mean DOWN!?" he then said "landed" Both Center and we thanked the airliner. PS I took a bus home and never flew with either of them again.
Sorry you had a bad flight, that flight must have been stressful for everyone involved. Night flying, terrain, weather, uncontrolled small airports, sounds like all the odds were stacked against y’all, glad you ultimately landed safely to tell the story!
@@scenicairways if not for me keeping an eye on things it could have been worse. The guy in the right seat was one of my CFIs and the guy in the left seat had never flown an actual instrument approach! I found that out and THEY both assumed the other had checked the weather!
@@scenicairwaysthis was 45 years ago. I'm still freinds with one of my CFIs. A now retired senior 777 captain. Told me this CFI actually went to the airline. It took him forever to get a job with one of the minor airlines and he had a hard time making captain. And at that he'd been grounded twice and went back for "additional training" more than a few times.
Check out my reply under another comment here for the explanation, but the short version is that the controllers are in an office miles away, even if they are allowed they don’t necessarily have the range and capability to reach a random small airport on the ground.
Not that surprising! Even your phone probably doesn’t get reception in a lot of remote areas. If this is a big commercial jet, then sure, they have multiple ways to try and get ahold of them. They would also be on pre-filed IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) flight plans with robust procedures on what exactly to do (for both sides) when radio communication is lost. And they would only be flying along/to places with good infrastructure, so that would play out quite differently. Now, if you are flying a small general aviation plane on VFR (Visual Flight Rules) doing your own thing while on Flight Following (an optional advisory service provided on a workload-permitting basis), going to middle of nowhere random small airports, that’s a pretty different story!
The other airplane 91J was on flight following with ATC, ATC lost communication with them because they either forgot to sign off or got into a radio dead zone and decided to change frequency to the destination airport. So ATC wanted someone to confirm that’s what happened.
with all the computers and satellite tracking for a maned aircraft. they do not know the states of everything in the air. do they need to force a privet unpaid person to use a radio to do there job.
They are busy landing the plane at that point - aviate, navigate, communicate, in that order, so this would be at the bottom of the priorities. They may also be too low to be able to reach the center frequency at that time. They should have told center before switching over, that’s what supposed to have happened but didn’t. Perhaps they had an emergency, an equipment issue, bad reception, or just simply forgot.
That would be a wild coincidence! Reality is more boring, just lost communication with a plane on that frequency, either due to reception issue, equipment failure or just forgot to sign off.
Did you ever notice these vertical shorts you watch are limited to 60 seconds? Things said from all sides, from natural pauses to reading back callsigns, needs to be trimmed down to fit. Sometimes even slightly rearranged to make sense. No one seems to notice so I’ll take it as compliment on the editing! Even 60s is on the long side for everyone’s attention span. Not my favorite medium to edit for, but you found it so i guess it works! Don’t worry I still fly with instructor(s) regularly, they give me constructive feedback all the time and I am quite aware of what I can improve on - right now that’s just about everything as a new pilot! Hope you’re not an instructor because your etiquette as a person is trash and maybe you need to work on that. Thanks for the engagement though, the algorithm appreciates it 🙏🏻
I am wondering, ATC couldn’t tune in to the frequency and check ?
They typically can’t!
The enroute controllers are monitoring a radar screen in a room somewhere, probably miles and miles away from this location. They are transmitting out of some antenna(s) centrally located in the sector and somewhere high up, probably also far away from the site.
So even if they have the ability to receive/transmit on a secondary frequency, their big centralized antenna probably won’t happen to have line of sight to a random small airport low to the ground in their sector.
Hope that makes sense!
Or, like, phone Toledo ATC?
@@scenicairways Yep, it's amazing how limited a radio can be. They could be pumping out 100K watts and a random hill can completely block the signal. Meanwhile a plane pumping out a few watts from their radio can reach super far, and is largely limited by weather conditions.
@g1hau well if they are on CTAF the tower, if they have one, is closed.
Yeah! Toledo is a small uncontrolled airport so there is no tower/ATC there.
There is an FBO (essentially… gas station) there IIRC, so they could call them on the phone I suppose, but that would really start to get in the way of their main job. VFR flight following is an advisory service on a “workload permitting” basis so my understanding is even asking me to check on them is going above and beyond.
If you have a flight plan open with flight services and forgot to close it though, they *will* call around and ask everyone they can, eventually escalating to sending search and rescue. Ask me how I know ;)
Pilot community is something else. Always looking out for each other.
I find the pilot community and the ham radio Community have a nice overlap sometimes.. just humans helping other humans because they can
When something requires intelligence and hard work to get into, it's harder for assholes to sneak in
@@ducknerdon’t worry, aviation has its share of arrogant assholes too.
@@ducknerExactly. Weeds out the idiots. However some still sneak through 😅
I have a feeling he was trying to get some brownie points for checking on his gf. This is a pretty good idea because it spares you the "would you love me if I was a worm" conversation later.
I love how efficient & effective the aviation communication is
When its civilian yes gods yes but military no gods no that goes against everything the military currently stands for
As a military dude I was listening to this wondering why they are talking so much and how inefficient the coms are.
@@alexc9434it’s not quite as dangerous, I think, to have super concise coms as a civ whereas bad coms in war could get many many people killed whether we’re talking danger close air support or life saving rations and ammo delivery or medevac or what have you. Instead the only real danger in civ aviation is a collision which yes it’s imperative you avoid but it’s just about the only factor compared to the military. In high stress high stakes situations mistakes are deaths
what's the military code ? @@alexc9434
@@alexc9434 The chatter keeps them awake?
I was flying 5 days ago when ATC asked me the favour of holding in a slow right turn while an RFDS and a Careflight Super King Air made their way into the field carrying patients. Could've landed before them and been clear of the runway but the controller was very glad not to worry about separation for those few minutes.
I think separation was the least of ATC's worries. Most likely those aircrafts were treated (almost) as emergencies, and the ATC's worry was the slight (but, still, NOT zero) chance that while on approach or landing you could f-up, or your bird could get a boo-boo, or whatever, and he would need to close the airfield.
@@bogdan_n The aerodrome I operate out of has 3 parallel runways running simultaneous operations, two 1.1km runways for small BLW 5700kg aircraft and one 1.4km runway for above 5700kg or turbine/jet aircraft. I could've landed on 11L and had 11C and 11R open to land on for them. I get without that context you can come to that conclusion but I believe it was a matter of separation since to join 11L final from the Western entry I need to cross the approach paths for 11C and 11R. since 11L is for arrival and departures, 11C is for the larger aircraft and 11R is for circuit training operations. If you're curious about the field it's Bankstown Aerodrome (YSBK) in Sydney, Australia.
I work hospitality but I'm a long time ATC fan. Our motto has always been team first, then service, then profit. Essentially, the people working alongside you are the most important thing, then the customer, then the money. I feel like this video demonstrates that perfectly. First comes the aviation team(s), then comes everyone getting places on time, and the money of it all is to be figured out by someone else.
Beautiful work everyone. Respectful, kind, and efficient. If I ever get a team this good I'm thanking every God ever.
I love that, when ever I’m flying and hear RFDS coming in on ctaf, no matter what I always let them in and they greatly appreciate it. Makes my day when I can make their life easier. They do a lot for Australia 👌🏻
@@bogdan_ncan confirm, on critical jobs we (RFDS) would declare medivac status with ATC on departure and be given priority ahead of all other aircraft unless they’d declared an inflight emergency.
Why flight following is such a valuable tool...
Had 91Juliet gone down in a remote area and not been on flight following, no one would have thought to start looking for her/them for hours if not days later. You may miss hand-offs like this (it'll happen a lot of you're in a helicopter flying
Curious in your experience when you drop off due to reception issue, have they ever checked in on you like this as far as you know, or do ATC usually just move on?
My understanding is FF is advisory and on a workload permitting basis only, so while not ideal, if ATC lost comms with an FF aircraft there is no obligation on their side (everyone is going above and beyond here).
If you want someone to actually look for you you have to open a flight plan with FSS, but curious in practice what tends to happen on FF drop out
@@scenicairwaysAt my center, if we lose comms with a VFR FF aircraft, we will try to reestablish communications if possible, and if not, continue to monitor the aircraft on radar to the destination. Then call the airport to verify they landed when we lose radar.
So even if you don’t hear from us, we’ll typically still be monitoring you.
If everyone could communicate like this, tbe world world be a better place.
One of the great things aboit the pilot community is they are friendly helpful and ready to assist each other. Glad I'm one of you.
The pilot in the air is a mobile receiver/transmitter for other pilots who don’t have the range for atc
There was a news article a while back about a busted cesna stuck in a field somewhere that was relaying info through some other unknown aviator somewhere above him in northern California. Turns out it was a military training flight out of Beale AFB. A U-2 was passing traffic for some stranger, cause when you need help, you need help.
God damn i love listening to aviation comms. Its actually quite pleasant and calming hearing such effective and helpful communication. Wish other aspects of life had communication this concise and effective
I've flown to KTOL from 1G3 (Kent State University Airport) and it's an F-16 base, so the runway lights were absolutely BLINDING at night 😂😂 definitely ask tower to turn them down if your puttsing inbound in your little Cessna like me.
Different Toledo! Would love to fly over that part of the country someday!
I go to school at 1G0 so the F16s flyin outta KTOL are very familiar lol
This is weirdly calming, idk how to explain it-
I love the aviation community. This is a great example of the cooperative attitude we all have.
I love being a Pilot. Community also looking out for each other, 99 percent of the time you'll never meet
I've heard pilots will sometimes be asked to check on radio tower lights or lighting. Kinda cool of its not out of the way.
Wholesome. Love it.
That was so clear, professional, smooth. Respect to all parties.
Sometimes ATC is like a guardian angel 😇
Aviators always keep other Aviators safe, and loved ... It's in our DNA...! Cheers...!
Dude I think I could listen to this music and radio chatter for hours on end, this is calming af
Nice view of the cowlitz river crossing I-5
That’s my son talking
Joe at ATC. Center
@@AvanSpirit That's wild, thank you Joe for looking out for us!
I live in this region of Washington its beautiful. And you were flying just over i5 exit 59 by the looks of it
Dang, you were like AWACS for just a minute! 😁
I didn't think I'd see stuff at home. So cool
Great work!
I see the Toledo Airway every time I leave my house. Funny I saw this as well
Good to see communication going on in the sky. Stay safe up there and for those wondering sky travel is just as dangerous as traveling on sea because if you go down you might go down in an unpopulated area and that can be days weeks or even months to find the site and that's even if your reporting your last position.
You've got an ELT though.
I'm lost. It sounds like a wholesome interaction but I'm better suited talking hot rods and small block chevys. Absolutely no idea what happened 😂❤😊
I was flying from north Carolina to Bermuda and a delta flight radioed me to see where i was, because atc couldn't contact me at the altitude i was flying at. Those comercial aircraft fly much higher and have a way better range.
nice folks being nice.
That’s aviation!!! 👏
You can litteraly see my house from your cockpit! Haha I live right off I-5 south of olympia! Flew into toledo myself with helicopter once.
This whole time I'm wondering if he's flying into Toledo Ohio where I live
I got my license in 19J.
I'm originally from Toledo so when I hear or see anything I stop 👍
wholesome
Yes some of these guys are real nice guys especially at 2:00 in the morning when they got nothing else to do😅
Always reminds me of tommy boy. Did i hear a niner in there
That's so tight
I like this
Very cool
Seems like every time I fly cross country I get a request like this.
New side quest:
Cool😊
Hey, my hometown, toledo wa❤️
This is very common to use another plan for relaying messages
I look forward to the day when the Dyson Sphere handles telecomms so that radio calls will be crisp and clear, and distances won't be an issue anymore so an aircraft can stay on one frequency for an entire flight.
Think about it. If each aircraft uses a different frequency, there won't be interruptions.
RIP SKY KING
Wonder why the controller needed to check on them?
I would guess they were previously on flight following but subsequently lost communication due to reception issue, or forgot to cancel FF before switching frequency.
Now. If we coukd all treat each other in this manner, our societies would be in a much better place 👍🏻
Class acts
the nice the controller it is.
Could anyone explain why the tower couldn't swith frequency to check? Also is this comman?
I explained on a few other comments - not sure if operationally they are able to do that (without interfering with their main job), but even if they are allowed, their equipment doesn’t necessarily have line of sight to reach this random small untowered airport.
It’s probably not that uncommon for aircraft’s on flight following to drop off without proper handoff, and if ATC is busy they would probably just move on since FF is advisory only on a workload permitting basis. So everyone is going above and beyond here.
It’s also pretty common for ATC to ask pilots for quick favors like this. But for them to pick *me* on a day where I happen to have camera rolling and was able to keep my cool on radio? Well, that’s rare for sure!
@@scenicairways thank you for explaining
😮😮😮
I was in the back seat of a 172 and the two pilots up front were NOT prepared for the weather and conditions for making a night time landing IN weather to an uncontrolled airport in the mountains. Center lost contact with us and an airliner above us was asked to contact us. The airliner reported we were down. Center came back and said "what do you mean DOWN!?" he then said "landed" Both Center and we thanked the airliner. PS I took a bus home and never flew with either of them again.
Sorry you had a bad flight, that flight must have been stressful for everyone involved. Night flying, terrain, weather, uncontrolled small airports, sounds like all the odds were stacked against y’all, glad you ultimately landed safely to tell the story!
@@scenicairways if not for me keeping an eye on things it could have been worse. The guy in the right seat was one of my CFIs and the guy in the left seat had never flown an actual instrument approach! I found that out and THEY both assumed the other had checked the weather!
Yikes!
@@scenicairwaysthis was 45 years ago. I'm still freinds with one of my CFIs. A now retired senior 777 captain. Told me this CFI actually went to the airline. It took him forever to get a job with one of the minor airlines and he had a hard time making captain. And at that he'd been grounded twice and went back for "additional training" more than a few times.
Why can't they contact the plane themselves?
Check out my reply under another comment here for the explanation, but the short version is that the controllers are in an office miles away, even if they are allowed they don’t necessarily have the range and capability to reach a random small airport on the ground.
@@scenicairways I actually did see that. Thank you for that.
@@scenicairways it's still kind of strange that in 2024 they can't do that from damn near anywhere...
Not that surprising! Even your phone probably doesn’t get reception in a lot of remote areas.
If this is a big commercial jet, then sure, they have multiple ways to try and get ahold of them. They would also be on pre-filed IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) flight plans with robust procedures on what exactly to do (for both sides) when radio communication is lost. And they would only be flying along/to places with good infrastructure, so that would play out quite differently.
Now, if you are flying a small general aviation plane on VFR (Visual Flight Rules) doing your own thing while on Flight Following (an optional advisory service provided on a workload-permitting basis), going to middle of nowhere random small airports, that’s a pretty different story!
😊
Oh i can see my house from here... literally...
Killed engine?
Somebody switched without asking
Next time dont just say "yep". Use your tail number always. Its never an issue until its an issue.
Thanks for the reminder! A lot of those were edited out for time to fit under 60s.
Ive been in 91j shoes😂
See what happens when everyone plays nice?
They usually do.
Why can't all industries work this well
Can someone explain what happened
The other airplane 91J was on flight following with ATC, ATC lost communication with them because they either forgot to sign off or got into a radio dead zone and decided to change frequency to the destination airport. So ATC wanted someone to confirm that’s what happened.
@@scenicairways oh awesome thank you
thats how its supposed to work
with all the computers and satellite tracking for a maned aircraft. they do not know the states of everything in the air.
do they need to force a privet unpaid person to use a radio to do there job.
Im sorry but I was staring at the back of your cap the whole time 😂
He def had a crush on her.
Interactions like this are why flying cars should never happen. Imagine the disrespect if today's drivers were in the air.
Im curious why the atc couldn't do that himself and why he wanted to know? Anyone with pilot knowledge care to answer?
It’s been asked and answered a few times in the comments so I’ll let you find it yourself 🙂
Now go apply at the tower lmao
No "meow"? Nice clip otherwise
This is why I can’t get behind the flat earth thing
😂😂😂😂
Could this have saved MH370?
Uncontrolled airspace can be quite scary. Just imagine what people do when they know no one is watching them on the radar...
Uhhh, what?
He using Google maps? Hahah jk
Bud, always read back proper.. You were lazy and half assed with it.
If I had a plane and could fly I'd try and shit out the window
Why not woman call Center and tell them herself?
They are busy landing the plane at that point - aviate, navigate, communicate, in that order, so this would be at the bottom of the priorities. They may also be too low to be able to reach the center frequency at that time.
They should have told center before switching over, that’s what supposed to have happened but didn’t. Perhaps they had an emergency, an equipment issue, bad reception, or just simply forgot.
Controllers daughter perhaps?
That would be a wild coincidence! Reality is more boring, just lost communication with a plane on that frequency, either due to reception issue, equipment failure or just forgot to sign off.
Hmmm maybe that atc guy had a lil' crush and was checking up on boo thang 😂
the community is great but your radio etiquette is trash. you should work on that
Did you ever notice these vertical shorts you watch are limited to 60 seconds? Things said from all sides, from natural pauses to reading back callsigns, needs to be trimmed down to fit. Sometimes even slightly rearranged to make sense. No one seems to notice so I’ll take it as compliment on the editing!
Even 60s is on the long side for everyone’s attention span. Not my favorite medium to edit for, but you found it so i guess it works!
Don’t worry I still fly with instructor(s) regularly, they give me constructive feedback all the time and I am quite aware of what I can improve on - right now that’s just about everything as a new pilot!
Hope you’re not an instructor because your etiquette as a person is trash and maybe you need to work on that. Thanks for the engagement though, the algorithm appreciates it 🙏🏻
Great work!