I know this video is 4 years old, but I had very similar results. Anything over 40 grains of H4350 with the 147 ELD-M, SD's around 11-15 and group sizes were over an inch. Dropped down to 38 grains and worked up to 39.7 with a COAL of 2.878" and shot the tightest group of my life. 5 shots .333" 3.90 SD with an ES of 10. Average of 2596 FPS. Out of a 22" Bergara HMR. This may not be ideal for 600 plus work, but it was the best I could do from this barrel with that combo of materials. At 550 yards, it has been holding strong 10/10 on a 6" steel plate. I will work further out when our Club's range is extended to a grand. Great video
I love the 147. It shoots lights out in my 260rem and I aint even done a load workup yet. Just put a new scope on her and loaded em up in brand new lapua brass with 40gr of H4350 to just go sight the scope in.....first 3 shots were under a quarter inch. Adjusted to zero the scope scope...then center punched the 1" dot with 4 rounds in a .202" group. Only 2575fps but I'm excited to see what it'll do when I do a load workup up to 42.5gr or so.
ELD-M 147 and ELD-X 143 are essentialy the same bullet, but the ELD-X has a thicker jacket thats why its a couple grain lighter. Should translate to the same performance in most cases. X just hold together better for hunting, so if you plan to hunt just use the -X as the 3 grains wont make much difference
My .38 inch group was with factory Hornady Custom .243 Win. with 75 gr Hornady HP (flat base), in a Stevens 200 .243 , off the shelf, pre-accutrigger stock trigger and a 3X9X32 Tasco scope (about $50 at Walmart). Off of sand filled hunting socks. Don't even know what powder they used. Rifle was maybe $299 without the Tasco scope. :)
Thanks for doing all the foot work. I'm at a point where I had to decide whether I needed to do the small incremental testing or not, now I will definitely give it a go.
I was gonna say to try Hodgdon max charge as that is where my node is until I saw your velocity. Even though you are at 40.2 w/ ADG brass and I am at 41.8 w/ Lapua brass our load is at it's best at the same velocity of 2685 w/ similar good SD/ES. The ADG brass seems like some really solid stuff with a lower charges needed due to it's capacity! This really goes to show for people to start lower and work their way up, especially in different brass and rifles.
Awesome group man glad to see you found something that works! I wish I could shoot groups like that, practice makes perfect and I unfortunately don't get to practice enough. Keep up the good work and I can't wait for the next video!
As far as just shooting groups dry fire can help. And you can do that at home! Maybe a few times between shooting trips will help keep you dialed in. Small groups take practice!
Your barrel is 24" right? (spoiler alert) My video for this week is with the 147 ELD-M and H4350. I am using Hornady Brass so I am sure there is a volume difference in the cases (and I am using a COAL of 2.850") but I don't hit 2680 till 41.8 gr which was my best ES/SD of the groups as well.
Very interesting we hit a similar node at the same speed. Mine is a 26” tube. The ADG Brass is pretty thick so there is likely a decent difference in case capacity
You might look into a sizing die that uses bushings so you can eliminate the neck expanding process. They will also provide way more consistent neck tension. Good job on those loads! P.S. If you ever want any brass annealed, box it up and send it this way.
You can get a L.E. Wilson neck die for $60.00 plus a Redding titanium nitrate bushing for $30.00. Not uber cheap, but worth the money if your looking for accuracy.
What's the reasoning for weight sorting the brass? I've done both and after watching Panhandler explain how it's a waste of time, if using quality brass, I gave it up.
I'm retired, mid 60s. I don't have time to weight sort brass or bullets and just shoot groups that size for fun, not competition. I do pretty good brass prep like trimming, but use only regular factory dies from Lee or RCBS and full length. Most I'll do is try to find a sweet spot on seating depth or bullet weights. My .243 shoots best with 70 gr ballistic tip or 75 gr Hornady HP, which has been discontinued much to my disappointment. May try their flat base V-Max when I run out of the 75 gr HP.
my load for the savage 110 desert tac at 100 yards, is 147g eld m,42.2gr of superformance,federal large match primer,hornady brass, so far best moa i got has been 0.237 moa, idt i can get it any better
Thanks krazor8 for the great info i have the same rifle I’m still working with factory ammo did you find a factory ammo that was decent I’ve been using federal gold medal match 130 burger?
Still haven't understood the use of a magnum powder in a non magnum cartridge.... slower burn rate.... unless you're using a 30in Barrel.. I've heard of problems with excessive fouling at the crown and muzzle break from unburnt powder.
Some say they work better with ball powders with exterior coatings which are said to be finicky/harder to ignite, like W 760/H414. I haven't tried it, but may try it with my 7X57 when using ball powder. With extruded powders, I use regular primers. My Rem. 700 .223 varmint gets Remington match primers while the supply lasts. It's a 1/2 MOA gun all day with BL-C(2) or W748 and 55 Gr. Vmax flat base.
Great with your loads! It is a very hard trying to find, What bullet and powder will work the best in your UPR-10...month-and-half before I go back to school, so what range sessions I have with my UPR-10 will consist of mechanical tracking test, some shooting tests; and with all the shooting, there is some test I am doing. I wanted to find a factory load that would shoot under an inch...Hornady's American Gunner 140 gr. BTHP delivered under an inch @ .70". Here in Alaska, we don't get a lot of reloading components, it is searching everywhere...ordering what is needed most times, Cabela's or Sportsmans Warehouse. I'm ready for school!
I’ve made the mile with the 147s. Give the 147s a shot with RL-26 46.0gr Hornady cases. CCI Large rifle Magnum primers, 2.8355” COAL. Shoots sub MOA in my RPR, 2680fps. It’s my go to load. I’m shooting at 4100ft elevation. Pressures usually run around 29.5-30.5Hg. Goodluck.
I’m shooting sub moa at the same velocity already, not a huge reason to switch man. That’s awesome you have got hits that far out with your RPR! Thanks for watching man
Do you really think the sectional density of the 140 vs the 147 makes ANY difference? I have a .22 hornet which everyone knows is not accurate, but will shoot groups in the 3's @ 100 yards. with the 30 gr. V-Max SD 100 and the same group sizes with the 40 GR V-Max SD 114...
I’m very interested to see you get into it dude! I’m sure you will do great things with the little cartridge they’re super fun. Much less punishing than a lightweight 30-06!
Hi Logan, have those 147g bullets had the same case prep as you did with the 140g Barnes? looks like the 147g load is coming together nicely , so was the case prep worth it instead of throwing the components together? What happened to the barns bullets with the little neck tension and case lube? was hoping to know how they shot and was there any consistency with them? Looking forward to seeing how you get on😁👍
Hey G, I did prep these cases the same as the Barnes. My next video is the follow up to the Barnes. No issues they worked awesome as well! Thanks for watching brother!
Why would it matter on the type of brass you use? Assuming you are using the appropriate brass for the caliber. As far as Bullet weight, type of bullet and Powder charge I understand how those affect groupings but not brass. Sorry for my ignorance but I don’t follow that part. Thanks for the help.
I swear dude, you must sleep with that rifle lol😁😁😁. I'm impressed with what you, allways! Wondering how this info might transfer over to my .264 Win Mag, when selecting bullets?😕?😕? Barnes looks to be a keeper
I bought starline lr-brass, no prep, put 40,41and 42 ramshot hunter in it with s&b primers,also the 147ELDM at 2,805COL, 40 and 41 had crazy sd from 0.3, the 42 had 5. 40,41 had 0,6",42 had 0,3" at 110Y 2580fts. this all during break-in barrel.3x shot with TikaTx3tac a1. see sites.google.com/view/reload-cheap-subsonic/homepage
Don't know your elevation and speeds but the 140s ELDs will make it to 1800yds just fine if you can get them out around 2820fps and over. The guy I shoot with did it a couple of weeks ago (no wind) and even managed an under moa group with them and not just a few hits, he did around 3 sets of 2-3 shots in succession at that distance, 12 total hits out of 22 or so. The one thing we both noticed with different rifles and different barrel lengths, the 140s like speeds above 2800fps. They will get out there, we haven't messed with the 147s in months due to how well the 140s perform and I won't be shooting 147s again. We shoot at 3000' elevation, 28.90hg, with temps around 75-80 degrees early in the morning. I think you said your barrel is 24"-26" so it will do it, I use 41.2g of H4350 and he's using around 45gr of H4831SC. At that distance you will also need something like the target hit indicator light because 6.5 does not move the target at all and it'll be very difficult to know if you hit. Good luck with your new testing.
I had the 140 ELDs coming out at 2820 and they grouped pretty good! The velocity spreads were not what I needed for that far of a shot. A big reason I use the 147 is less wind drift and the rifle shoots them awesome. How big was your buddies target that far away?
Im similiar elevation even 3700' but shooting anything 6.5 CM at those kinda ranges is going subsonic at those ranges. The 140 puts a nice 1/4" clover leaf whole for me but the 147 although grouos a tiny bit bigger has noticeable increase in performance. Basically less elevation and windage needed
We use a 20" gong at that distance. We just went out again at 1775yds and he hit 5 times with issues. He was having good spreads and not consistent this time around. I destroyed it with the win mag and 225gr ELDs, hit 3 straight and a total of 6 out of 15rds. which were also testing rds with different powder charges. We also paint our targets before every shoot and also use the t1000.
Matt what are your calls at around a mile? We're at 21mils elevation for 1775yds (16.1mils with the win mag) and the 140s, we try to shoot in low winds as much as possible.
I do, if my barrel heats up quickly, and components are scarce and expensive. As someone in another video said, If two shots are an inch or more apart, shooting up more bullets will not make it better....the "group" any smaller :)
I know this video is 4 years old, but I had very similar results. Anything over 40 grains of H4350 with the 147 ELD-M, SD's around 11-15 and group sizes were over an inch. Dropped down to 38 grains and worked up to 39.7 with a COAL of 2.878" and shot the tightest group of my life. 5 shots .333" 3.90 SD with an ES of 10. Average of 2596 FPS. Out of a 22" Bergara HMR. This may not be ideal for 600 plus work, but it was the best I could do from this barrel with that combo of materials. At 550 yards, it has been holding strong 10/10 on a 6" steel plate. I will work further out when our Club's range is extended to a grand. Great video
Out of curiosity, what did you trim your brass to?
@@Disagree2agree 1.910"
@@rockchalk06 awesome. I’m making the switch to 147 from 140.
I love the 147. It shoots lights out in my 260rem and I aint even done a load workup yet. Just put a new scope on her and loaded em up in brand new lapua brass with 40gr of H4350 to just go sight the scope in.....first 3 shots were under a quarter inch. Adjusted to zero the scope scope...then center punched the 1" dot with 4 rounds in a .202" group. Only 2575fps but I'm excited to see what it'll do when I do a load workup up to 42.5gr or so.
So when you load 40 grain of powder seem like you over loading your case but guess not . I was trying to loook for loads for my creedmoor 147gr eld-M.
Those are some sweet groups! Especially that one at 40.2 gr.’s! Nice work and great video!
Trying to keep up with you man! Haha I bet your savage would be a hammer in the desert!
You're saying that last group is 4 shots?
Impressive. I just got some 147’s that I’m loading up today. Always liked the 143 ELD-X but wanted to give these guys a try.
ELD-M 147 and ELD-X 143 are essentialy the same bullet, but the ELD-X has a thicker jacket thats why its a couple grain lighter. Should translate to the same performance in most cases. X just hold together better for hunting, so if you plan to hunt just use the -X as the 3 grains wont make much difference
Henrik Johansson except the X has a ballistic Coefficient lower than both the 140 and 147gr eld m
My .38 inch group was with factory Hornady Custom .243 Win. with 75 gr Hornady HP (flat base), in a Stevens 200 .243 , off the shelf, pre-accutrigger stock trigger and a 3X9X32 Tasco scope (about $50 at Walmart). Off of sand filled hunting socks. Don't even know what powder they used. Rifle was maybe $299 without the Tasco scope. :)
Thanks for doing all the foot work. I'm at a point where I had to decide whether I needed to do the small incremental testing or not, now I will definitely give it a go.
I rarely do as well after finding a good load try a few above and below
Thanks 4 sharing. Good shooting
I was gonna say to try Hodgdon max charge as that is where my node is until I saw your velocity. Even though you are at 40.2 w/ ADG brass and I am at 41.8 w/ Lapua brass our load is at it's best at the same velocity of 2685 w/ similar good SD/ES. The ADG brass seems like some really solid stuff with a lower charges needed due to it's capacity! This really goes to show for people to start lower and work their way up, especially in different brass and rifles.
With the 147 gr. ...what was your COAL?
Awesome group man glad to see you found something that works! I wish I could shoot groups like that, practice makes perfect and I unfortunately don't get to practice enough. Keep up the good work and I can't wait for the next video!
As far as just shooting groups dry fire can help. And you can do that at home! Maybe a few times between shooting trips will help keep you dialed in. Small groups take practice!
Using my precision rifle I can get one hole groups with Hornady Black ammo in 140grn. Reloading is just more fun, and you get similar results.
Your barrel is 24" right? (spoiler alert) My video for this week is with the 147 ELD-M and H4350. I am using Hornady Brass so I am sure there is a volume difference in the cases (and I am using a COAL of 2.850") but I don't hit 2680 till 41.8 gr which was my best ES/SD of the groups as well.
Very interesting we hit a similar node at the same speed. Mine is a 26” tube. The ADG Brass is pretty thick so there is likely a decent difference in case capacity
That was a great group by anyone's standard !
You might look into a sizing die that uses bushings so you can eliminate the neck expanding process. They will also provide way more consistent neck tension. Good job on those loads!
P.S. If you ever want any brass annealed, box it up and send it this way.
I need to but man bushing dies get pricy quick! I have a bag of 100 pieces waiting for annealing!
Still have my address? Send them my way. If not, text me and I'll send it to ya.
You can get a L.E. Wilson neck die for $60.00 plus a Redding titanium nitrate bushing for $30.00. Not uber cheap, but worth the money if your looking for accuracy.
Of course you will need an arbor press and a redding body die, and perhaps a case gauge. So, around $250.00 for everything, more or less.
Did you test both 140 and 147 ELDs to get max velocities and see wich is the best for wich range ?
What's the reasoning for weight sorting the brass? I've done both and after watching Panhandler explain how it's a waste of time, if using quality brass, I gave it up.
I'm retired, mid 60s. I don't have time to weight sort brass or bullets and just shoot groups that size for fun, not competition. I do pretty good brass prep like trimming, but use only regular factory dies from Lee or RCBS and full length. Most I'll do is try to find a sweet spot on seating depth or bullet weights. My .243 shoots best with 70 gr ballistic tip or 75 gr Hornady HP, which has been discontinued much to my disappointment. May try their flat base V-Max when I run out of the 75 gr HP.
You can get a Sinclair/LE Wilson kit from Brownells for $250.00, if they ever get them in stock again.
my load for the savage 110 desert tac at 100 yards, is 147g eld m,42.2gr of superformance,federal large match primer,hornady brass, so far best moa i got has been 0.237 moa, idt i can get it any better
Thanks krazor8 for the great info i have the same rifle I’m still working with factory ammo did you find a factory ammo that was decent I’ve been using federal gold medal match 130 burger?
@@tww9974 tbh, hornday eld match 147, and the precision hunter 143
Still haven't understood the use of a magnum powder in a non magnum cartridge.... slower burn rate.... unless you're using a 30in Barrel.. I've heard of problems with excessive fouling at the crown and muzzle break from unburnt powder.
Some say they work better with ball powders with exterior coatings which are said to be finicky/harder to ignite, like W 760/H414. I haven't tried it, but may try it with my 7X57 when using ball powder. With extruded powders, I use regular primers. My Rem. 700 .223 varmint gets Remington match primers while the supply lasts. It's a 1/2 MOA gun all day with BL-C(2) or W748 and 55 Gr. Vmax flat base.
Great with your loads! It is a very hard trying to find, What bullet and powder will work the best in your UPR-10...month-and-half before I go back to school, so what range sessions I have with my UPR-10 will consist of mechanical tracking test, some shooting tests; and with all the shooting, there is some test I am doing. I wanted to find a factory load that would shoot under an inch...Hornady's American Gunner 140 gr. BTHP delivered under an inch @ .70". Here in Alaska, we don't get a lot of reloading components, it is searching everywhere...ordering what is needed most times, Cabela's or Sportsmans Warehouse. I'm ready for school!
Definitely try Hornady match if you come across it. It seems to shoot excellent out of all the UPRs! Good luck man
West Desert Shooter: The American Gunner 140 grains BTHP/match; the cost for 200 rounds $150.00. I plan on buying more.
I’ve made the mile with the 147s. Give the 147s a shot with RL-26 46.0gr Hornady cases. CCI Large rifle Magnum primers, 2.8355” COAL. Shoots sub MOA in my RPR, 2680fps. It’s my go to load. I’m shooting at 4100ft elevation. Pressures usually run around 29.5-30.5Hg. Goodluck.
I’m shooting sub moa at the same velocity already, not a huge reason to switch man. That’s awesome you have got hits that far out with your RPR! Thanks for watching man
Do you really think the sectional density of the 140 vs the 147 makes ANY difference? I have a .22 hornet which everyone knows is not accurate, but will shoot groups in the 3's @ 100 yards. with the 30 gr. V-Max SD 100 and the same group sizes with the 40 GR V-Max SD 114...
Man You have a nice set up ,Roger precision + SWFA scope ,I got the savage MSR10 hunter and the SWFA 12x42
Killer, man. I'm amazed. I have some 147s on the way, too. Your work will give me a leg up.
Are you still running this load or have you left the 147 grain for something els looking to copy this load
That’s an insane group. Good work
Thanks Jim much appreciated. I think I can squeeze them into a smaller group from prone
How much does your brass weigh?
Soaking in all the info brother for when I get into 6.5CM. Very very soon 😋 Excellent video and man that last group really tightened up
I’m very interested to see you get into it dude! I’m sure you will do great things with the little cartridge they’re super fun. Much less punishing than a lightweight 30-06!
Thanks for sharing!
What was the measurements to the olive?
The black olives or the green ones? :) JK.
Nice all that work payed off that good good shooting too
Luckily it did. But also now I feel like I need to from now on because I know what it is capable of
Wow nice job. Very impressive. Happy shooting. God Bless ya brother
Damn good bullet for long range. With those numbers, you should see some hardcore consistency down range. Excellent shooting my man!
Much appreciated dude, excited to see whatever you try next!
Nice work Logan!
Thanks dude I loaded two more groups of 40.2 and one group of 40 I will shoot them prone and see how they compare
Hi Logan, have those 147g bullets had the same case prep as you did with the 140g Barnes? looks like the 147g load is coming together nicely , so was the case prep worth it instead of throwing the components together? What happened to the barns bullets with the little neck tension and case lube? was hoping to know how they shot and was there any consistency with them? Looking forward to seeing how you get on😁👍
Hey G, I did prep these cases the same as the Barnes. My next video is the follow up to the Barnes. No issues they worked awesome as well! Thanks for watching brother!
No worries Logan, really looking forward to the video awesome buddy 😁👍
Isn't it funny how, .1 can make a difference, tiny tiny groups 👍👍👏👏🇺🇸🤓
Even with a rifle. Pretty crazy
Why would it matter on the type of brass you use? Assuming you are using the appropriate brass for the caliber. As far as Bullet weight, type of bullet and Powder charge I understand how those affect groupings but not brass. Sorry for my ignorance but I don’t follow that part. Thanks for the help.
The consistency of brass and the amount of internal volume it has can effect velocities and pressures. The more similar the better
With factory brass some is thicker and capacities are different. One brass a load may be compressed while with another, not as much.
You shooting bolt action or semi auto ...just curious...thanks
Great info, thanks for the video, I will be working up to that load in my RPR. What barrel length are you using and what chrono?
My rifle has a 26” barrel and I’m using a Caldwell precision chrono
What scope do you have mounted on that rifle?
SWFA fixed power. They’re awesome
Nice how far off the lands were you?
Do you use any app for bullets drop calculations ?
No he just guesses
Wow. very impressive.
Thanks Josh much appreciated!
I didn't pick up how far the targets were...
100 yards. It’s where I develop loads. Then take them out to distance
147eldm, 42.2 grain H4350, 26inch 1/8twist, lapua brass, cci450, 2750ish-fps, put 5 shots same hole at 100yards. You’re welcome fam
very similar to my load using slightly more powder. 6.5cm just smangs it all.
Thanks. I'm just getting into reloading. These comments are very helpful for a noob reloader like myself
J T Trim the case necks and make sure you seat the bullet right off the lands..... then you’re good to go
You went out and shot some Barnes bullet but said 147 grn... Barnes dont make 147 grain bullets for the 6.5 . Check your video
I shoot both Barnes 140 and Hornady 147 I was probably referring to that
Who gives a shit ...
I swear dude, you must sleep with that rifle lol😁😁😁.
I'm impressed with what you, allways!
Wondering how this info might transfer over to my .264 Win Mag, when selecting bullets?😕?😕?
Barnes looks to be a keeper
I would definitely try the 147 in the Win mag that thing will fly so damn far! Haha if you can find some load data I would for sure try it
New powder to try for 6.5 Creedmoor is this one: www.mssblog.com/2018/07/27/product-news-shooters-world-sw4350-propellant/
Wow! Winner winner..chicken dinner!
I bought starline lr-brass, no prep, put 40,41and 42 ramshot hunter in it with s&b primers,also the 147ELDM at 2,805COL,
40 and 41 had crazy sd from 0.3, the 42 had 5. 40,41 had 0,6",42 had 0,3" at 110Y 2580fts. this all during break-in barrel.3x
shot with TikaTx3tac a1. see sites.google.com/view/reload-cheap-subsonic/homepage
marc robert did you get pierced primers using the s&b primers?
Don't know your elevation and speeds but the 140s ELDs will make it to 1800yds just fine if you can get them out around 2820fps and over. The guy I shoot with did it a couple of weeks ago (no wind) and even managed an under moa group with them and not just a few hits, he did around 3 sets of 2-3 shots in succession at that distance, 12 total hits out of 22 or so. The one thing we both noticed with different rifles and different barrel lengths, the 140s like speeds above 2800fps. They will get out there, we haven't messed with the 147s in months due to how well the 140s perform and I won't be shooting 147s again. We shoot at 3000' elevation, 28.90hg, with temps around 75-80 degrees early in the morning. I think you said your barrel is 24"-26" so it will do it, I use 41.2g of H4350 and he's using around 45gr of H4831SC. At that distance you will also need something like the target hit indicator light because 6.5 does not move the target at all and it'll be very difficult to know if you hit. Good luck with your new testing.
I had the 140 ELDs coming out at 2820 and they grouped pretty good! The velocity spreads were not what I needed for that far of a shot. A big reason I use the 147 is less wind drift and the rifle shoots them awesome. How big was your buddies target that far away?
Also at that distance if I don’t see dust it’s a good possibility it was a hit. That’s why I always paint my targets before a shoot
Im similiar elevation even 3700' but shooting anything 6.5 CM at those kinda ranges is going subsonic at those ranges. The 140 puts a nice 1/4" clover leaf whole for me but the 147 although grouos a tiny bit bigger has noticeable increase in performance. Basically less elevation and windage needed
We use a 20" gong at that distance. We just went out again at 1775yds and he hit 5 times with issues. He was having good spreads and not consistent this time around. I destroyed it with the win mag and 225gr ELDs, hit 3 straight and a total of 6 out of 15rds. which were also testing rds with different powder charges. We also paint our targets before every shoot and also use the t1000.
Matt what are your calls at around a mile? We're at 21mils elevation for 1775yds (16.1mils with the win mag) and the 140s, we try to shoot in low winds as much as possible.
HAHA, Nice shootin. Great SD.
Thanks brother
No cares about 3 or 4 round groups.
Oh cool thanks for the update
No one cares about your gay comment.
If it ain’t 5, it don’t jive.
I do, if my barrel heats up quickly, and components are scarce and expensive. As someone in another video said, If two shots are an inch or more apart, shooting up more bullets will not make it better....the "group" any smaller :)