Eg4 Battery Charger - Top Balancing And Generator Sizing For Our Solar System!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2022
- Eg4 Battery Charger - Top Balancing And Generator Sizing For Our Solar System! ALL OF OUR SOLAR EQUIPMENT...CLICK HERE: www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=c...
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Will also did a video where he said the batteries all seem to have a slight variation with server racks. So you’ll likely always have a small issue with it. Mine do as well. You can charge the batteries individually with that charger by hooking to the bus bar and only switching on the batteries you want to charge. If the rest are off it’ll only feed the battery that’s on.
Yep, I saw that. His vids are great. Next time I charge, I will hook to the buss bars. Wanted totally isolation for the top balancing.
How do address the grounding issues with the panels and racking system and for the inverters and batteries? Sorry if I missed this in any of your videos. @@CountryLivingExperience
@@rv-n-heaven7849 What specific issues? I have 22 solar videos so there must be some answers in them.
Wow, that's such a simple and brilliant tip to just hook the charger up to the main rails and switch only the specific battery you want to charge on, one at a time!! Thanks for this time saver!
Would you prefer the 5k chargeverter or this one?
Excellent answers to my qs
Awesome host
Blessings
Very good. The condition of the battery and the internal resistance of each plays a big role.
Thanks.
I’m converting to solar and your videos are so helpful, thank you ❤️
Awesome! Glad we could help.
I like your videos very much! I originally bought 64 LIFEPO4 230 amps and I also bought 4 DALY BMS to charge and control these 4 sets I made. I had the same issue where not all 4 wore charging and discharging the same way and what I’ve learned in the process was that the BMS wasn’t working very well in parallel with other BMS (again I had 4) this may be a similar issue! I just bought 6 of those identical batteries like yours and pray for the best!
Thank you. Hope you get the issue worked out.
Good to see you here again. This is before the inverter upgrade. Good video explaining the battery bank. I am still considering my options. I am pricing emergency backup vs. whole house Solar. All the best! God bless
Thank you. I think whole house would be best since those emergency solar generators are small and very limited.
I have purchased many used 20-30kw generator skids and trailers in working condition for under 1k. Just have to keep an eye out and be willing to drive
The SOC is calculated by the BMS. The "lower" middle pack is very likely just slightly lower calculated capacity than the other packs for the same voltage. You should be concerned about voltage imbalance under high current conditions. Not reported calculated SOC numbers.
Thank you so very much for your videos and this one in particular. I am just starting my whole house off-grid install and using Signature Solar for most of the gear. Bought two of the EG4 inverters and four of the EG4 batteries. Starting the cabinet build this weekend, install the batteries and then the inverters. I was originally going to to connect a 13kW generator as the AC input but after watching that video from Signature and understanding that a 48V battery charger is the way to go. I want a more permanent install with the charger connected to the battery server rack and generator just outside the solar shed. I am assuming that I can just connect the charger cables to the bus bars and when I need to top off the batteries fire up the generator. Sounds pretty straight forward and no need for 30amp plugs, circuit breakers, etc. Thanks again.
You're welcome, glad we could help.
So funny you wrote this comment today. I am in the middle of editing a video on the EG4 6500ex inverter. We are adding them to our system and moving our Growatts to another part of our property. Video will be live on Sunday.
I have a 13KW Cummins RS13A propane generator wired to supply the house if all else fails, and also to supply an EG4 Chargeverter. When the solar system batteries get too low due to clouds, the solar system switches off and the Cummins automatically starts. The Chargeverter output current is adjustable from 0-100 Amps. The Cummins charges the 48V solar batteries through the Chargeverter which I plan to normally set to 80 Amps (about 4KW), using about 4.5KW from the Cummins and leaves about 8.5KW for the house, which is just about enough for our 1.5KW well pump and hot water tank and other small loads. If I switch off the solar system, I can leave the generator running until all batteries are fully charged, which will top-balance the battery system without taking it apart. This seems to work great. The Cummins produces a pure sine wave out, but the Chargeverter can work from modified sine or other "dirty" power sources if necessary. In the summer, the batteries fully charge from solar each day, so top balancing may only be occasionally needed in the winter months.
That sounds like a great setup. We did a video on the Chargeverter as well. We have that integrated into our system currently.
Looks like you got the 17A charger also. Mine was advertised as a 25A, when they figured out they sent 17A charges, they reached out to me and offered a credit.. fantastic company.
Yep, you're correct. They made it right with me. I have a credit too. Going to spend it on more batteries soon ;-)
I spent my credit on the usb to 486 adapter and a DC clamp meter.
Hi, I have been following your videos as I started to plan out my off grid 12KW Growatt system and they have been very helpful. I have learned allot between you, Will, and Dave Poz. I saw this post this morning and am going thru the same issue with battery drain and submitted the following to Sig Solar TH-cam. Thought you would appreciate the feedback. Let's keep in touch.
I recently installed my Growatt 12KW inverter and 4- EG4-LL batteries in the rack system using the top 4 rack spaces. I currently have 8 of your Bluesun BSM460M-72HBD panels configured in 4S-2P on one MPPT via a watts24/7 charge controller. My other 10 panels are on back order to wire up the second MPPT. I am considering going 3S-3P for each MPPT when the remaining panels arrive. I used the 25mm2 gauge wire you provided for the 4 EG-LL's pulling the positive and the negative from the top of the rack system busbars. I ran this for a couple weeks with two 110V output circuits to test the system and noticed the batteries drained down evenly. I just received and installed the remaining two EG4-LL's in the bottom two spaces to complete the rack and reversed the negative bus bar per Will's comments so that the main negative pulled from the bottom of the bus bar. I also replaced the 25mm2 battery feed cables with equal length 4/0 cables. I then went off grid for the past 6 days, back feeding my house panel on a 60 amp breaker. I was surprised to see that the two newer EG4-LL's installed at the bottom of the rack were draining down much faster. This morning reading show from top to bottom in the rack with all 6 showing 52.2 volt but the amp draw as follows;
#1 0.9A 44%
#2 0.9A 44%
#3 0.9A 43%
#4 0.9A 44%
#5 3.0A 37%
#6 2.9A 38%
The difference in the SOC has been between 10-20% between the top 4 and the bottom 2 batteries to the point that I shut off the lower two last night. I am considering changing the negative bus bar back to the original position and would appreciate your input.
Cool. Let me know how it goes and what Sig Solar says.
I’ve found for me that it’s more efficient to turn on generator for largest loads and turn back off instead of trying to recharge battery.
Of course it’s a big pain so depends on weather and time of day.
Is there a way to auto start a cheaper generor to charge the battery bank via the chargeverter? Maybe via the Dry Contacts on the inverter? Not aware of a cheaper generator that would support this.
One thing I learned from the R/C hobby is always getting batteries to parallel that were balance tested prior and had basically the same charge/discharge characteristics.
Is it possible that your middle battery has characteristics that are noticeably different than the others in your setup? Have you tried arranging the batteries into a different order as a test? Take that middle battery out and put up at the top or the bottom and note the difference. This would at least isolate the problem into for sure knowing if it was that specific battery or if it was indeed the placement within the setup.
I haven't tried rearranging yet. I will though. All are topped off and waiting for my new system components to arrive. Thanks for your thoughts on the subject.
Just got my batteries and rack. Could not find anywhere how to engage the battery for charging. Yours is the only video that answered this at about 9:10.
Glad we could help
You are telling with something moving at 168.000 miles a sec. I don't think 4 feet is going to hurt any thing. I do have mine in the middle where if there is a problem like that will be the shortest. but with a bus bar good for a 1000 amps I think you ok. love your show God Bless
Exactly! This is what I’ve been talking about. You always need a plan B & C . There’s no guarantee the sun will be out all the time.
The other thing you can do is buy the 12kW inverter that has an 240v input just for the grid or generator. 👍
I may explore those inverter generators in the future.
So are you saying with the growatt 12k inverter you could charge your whole battery bank as a whole rather than each battery individually? Would you hook up the generator directly to the inverter, no charger needed?
@@fullsizeoffroad7560 exactly, I hooked up the generator to the inverter and it was charging the batteries and powering the house. But. They don’t recommend it because it will be to much for the generator. But I figured out with my 6500 watt generator and can charge my batteries at 30 amp and run the house with out any problems and once the batteries are charged. I stop the generator and the inverter switches anything back by it’s set. If you get this inverter, you can charge the batteries at 180 amps. You can prioritize solar or generator to charge the batteries first. I really like this unit.
@@iiinsaiii That sounds like exactly what I need. That’s the 12kW Growatt inverter from signature solar? I’m between that inverter or two EG4 6.5kW inverters.
@@fullsizeoffroad7560 yes it’s from Signature Solar. That’s cool to get there batteries. But I built my own 25,700kwh battery bank.
In Rc terms balance charging
I run a Champion 2500 to run an EG4 charger to charge my EG4 batteries when the solar is struggling (I have no grid power), I had to run the generator through the inverter for about 6 months and it was annoying, even with my 3600watt generator. I would have to set the inverter to charge at 5 amps while I use my air conditioner or kitchen stuff and then change it back to 25amps afterwards... I plan to get another EG4 charger in case I need to double the input (Signature Solar confirmed that I can run multiple chargers to my battery bank even with the inverter supplying charge so long as the total input doesn't exceed the 100 amps/battery)
Awesome. Yea, the chargers are the way to go.
Check the resistance of your cable to the busbar. Different resistances (from different cable lengths) would cause a difference in the current flow from the batteries to the busbar.
Yep. They are the same length.
I'm doing something like what SS recommended. I have 3 growatt 5000 es to power the house. then I bought a 4th 5000es to act just as a charger hooked up to an 8.5kw champion whole home generator. its only duty will be to charge when battery gets too low and no sun shining. this is off grid only.
That is interesting. They didn't suggest that to me at all.
I like your videos and have been watching for over a year now. 10 months ago I built my Solar consisting of 44 - 400w Ground mount panels, 4 - Growatt 5k ES inverters, 6 - 48v EG4 batteries and 2 midpoint transformers. I am connected to the grid and I do utilize the grid ac input and I have a 22Kw Generic whole house generator that was in place prior to my solar. 1st, one comment on your batteries being out of balance by 8%. I noticed that all your batteries had the same charge of 53.2 volts. It seems to me if the batteries are all balanced at the same volts, but the charge level is off by 8% then the lower % charged batteries are not being utilized as much as the higher % batteries. The problem there is the higher % batteries might be working harder than the lower % batteries which could cause premature failure of that battery. Obviously that is why you are Top charging you batteries. The reason I bring all that up is because I had a problem with my batteries last week that cause my first Solar failure shutdown. I somewhat top charged my batteries in about march and they worked fine until I had about 5 days of little or no sun in a row. I get about 1.5kw just from light on a cloudy day so my batteries were charging and discharging all day and switching to grid (which I have set to do at 29%) in early evening. For anyone not aware, the batteries continue to supply power to the inverters even when bypassing grid to the house. At about 10 pm the inverters shut down. (Instant total blackness) I went out To my breaker boxes and switched my generator interlock to turn off the solar, which was already off and switched the grid directly to the house. With the lights back on I checked my batteries and they ranged from 13% charge to 0% charge. Apparently the 0% battery caused the BMS to shut down the inverters. Since then I ran on grid power until I got about 83 to 92% charges on my batteries. I connected my EG4 battery charger to each battery individually and charged the battery until the charger shut down. After letting the batteries rest a few hours my batteries had the same charge Volts and and same 100% charge. BTW, I didn't disconnect the battery from the bus bar or the inverters. When you turn off the Breaker you break any connection to the bus bar. So, all breakers off ( unless you want to charge more than one battery at a time) and all battery switches turned on worked for me. After fully charged and at 100% I turned the solar back on and everything is working normal again. My question now is DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW OFTEN I SHOULD HAVE TO TOP CHARGE THESE BATTERIES and did I do anything potentially bad or dangerous the way I did this. Is there a better or more permanent way to accomplish this.
You should only have to top charge once from my knowledge. The issue is with the BMS. I was told that the EG4 BMS learns slowly and will take some time to balance everything out by talking to the other batteries. Sig Solar is working on an update to the BMS issue so that they can learn faster. The 2nd generation of EG4's are out now. Maybe they learn quicker than the gen 1.
You need to look at the batteries as one battery. Then separate the ends as such. least resistance.
Probably higher likelihood with lower current flows and temp variances from top to bottom
Does anyone know what the most powerful charge would be? I have 5500 running watts from my generator. Or could I hook this up through the inverter as long as Im not using much power to run the house.
The bus bars likely have no effect on current sharing or imbalance issues IMO. The battery banks in these racks are completely in parallel even without flipping the busbar (Unless the buss bar was not sized properly for over the maximum amperage of all the batteries combined).
The electricity will NOT flow through each of the batteries starting at the top positive and ending at the bottom negative because they are in parallel. However, the variation of "per pack" resistance would make a difference if they were off by much. It certainly wouldn't hurt to flip one of them though...
Those were my thoughts too. That was corroborated by my conversation with signature solar and my decision to top balance. I flipped it anyway just for the small chance that are wrong…can’t hurt.
When batteries are paired shouldn't respective bms's via link each other and balance so each battery has same SOC ?
In theory yes, however, it takes the batteries a while to learn and then self balance. Potentially up to 6 months or more.
As a test would multi battery banks mutually charge to same soc if you used 2/0 cables instead bus bars ?
It should even out regardless if you use busbars or the cable because they have communications connected as well.
Thanks for this video...just subbed to your channel. I am in the process of commissioning my six new Lifepower4 EG4 batteries and am researching the best way (and safest) to connect my 4/0 cables to my system. I have the older buss bars with no twin larger lug points on each bar. Hmm? Anyways, concerning SOC and lithium batteries. I currently have four KiloVault 12v batteries wired in series for 48v for my system (14.4 kwH). I gave up on what the batteries SOC indications are registering. The variance is as high as 10-12%. Each batteries' voltages remain within 0.2v of each other. I did videos, called the company, rewired, reflashed the BMS, etc...marginal improvement (maybe 4% variance improvement). However, the rated kWh output has NOT changed (a good thing). They work despite what the SOC is saying. I did the "individual charge to full SOC" like you did too several times (top balancing). Bottom balancing (taking them all the way down to cutout) helped the best, but didn't change the kWh output. Hope this helps.
Thank you for sharing. I have been told that these batteries can take up to a year for the BMS to learn to balance each other.
I have the same issue with my batteries. The 2 in the middle drain faster. I flipped my positive bar because of how I'm set up. It shouldn't matter which one you flip but everyone always says the negative bar. I had no difference when I flipped it, same result. I also charged each of my 6 batteries with the same charger you have and all were within a 10th of a percent of each other. I also upgraded my cables to 2/0, still the same result. Gave up trying to figure it out.
So strange that it is the exact same issue. Did you talk with Sig Solar tech?
@@CountryLivingExperience I did talk to them but they gave me no explanation. I like SS and purchased everything through them but they have had some "growing pains" with their tech support. Thanks for the videos!
Same problem and experience I'm having. They did tell me to lower the bulk to, or absorb voltage which has slowed down the deterioration problem.
Thanks for the video. So have u charged it on the busbar? How did it work for u?
I have not needed to do that yet.
Would love to see a video charging all the batteries via the racks buss bars. Curious how much fuel that size generator will burn to bring the rack of batteries from 20% to 100% or something similar. Or if you’ve already experimented please share the info you found. Much thanks!
That may be a good experiment. I have not tried that approach yet.
@@CountryLivingExperience I’m sure there are a lot more people out there curious. I have my whole setup in storage ready to install in spring so trying to get some insight for when the time comes.
If the rack batteries were all balanced but just low, can you use that charger to charge the whole bank at once via the bus bars or would they need to be all disconnected and charged individually ? May be a stupid question but I’m still learning. Thanks.
Not a stupid question. I think it will work but I have not tried it like that yet. It should.
I have purchased two of those chargers from Signature Solar and they both died with very little use. The first Signature Solar replaced, but the second one, I could NOT get any support from them.
Sorry to hear that. I have not had any issues with mine.
So you are dead in the water while charging (no battery power)? Off grid what happens to your critical appliiances?
With that charger you do 1 battery at a time, that’s what it looked like , or hooking up the top battery charges em all , it’s says the charger pulls 850 watts
I was top balancing in this instance so yes, one battery at a time. You can also charge the whole stack but I would recommend the new Chargeverter for that. I did a video on that here: th-cam.com/video/ru2rqhDOP5o/w-d-xo.html
I mean the process makes sense if you do it that way, but I doubt people are regularly drawing 8kWh continuously throughout. You would have to have everything under load the whole day to be doing that; I imagine not everyone is running a kettle, oven, microwave and all other electrics 24 hours a day.
Was this video made prior to the release of the EG4 Chargeverter? The Chargeverter seems like the best choice at this point as it can take all kinds of generator input, inverter, non inverter, 120, 240 etc... Great video.
Yes, this was before the Chargeverter was introduced
We also did a video on the Chargeverter
So, I was following your scenario for a generator as a backup source (for times of low solar input and no grid) up until the part where a 1200 watt charger connected to a small inverter generator can solve your 8 KW house electrical demand. I’m guessing “the scenario” and “topping your batteries while disconnected” are two separate topics.
Ideally it would only need to supplement the charging when the batteries are low. Since the inverters are already a generator then the issue is with the batteries. And this makes sense overall. It would just be an extremely long process with a large battery bank.
Yes. I covered 3 topics in this video. Those are separate topics that you mentioned.
Curious if you can plug in the battery charger to the inverter's input? rather than have to charge each battery separate? Or does this cause same issue as plugging generator directly into Input?
That was what I was trying to point out in the video. You can only put the generator into the input if it is big enough.
Do you have to worry about heating/cooling your batteries during specific seasons? If so, how do you solve for that?
My batteries are in the house. Well within the temp ranges for operation.
Yes sistema akb🔋🔋🔋 ⚡🔌💡👍
Do you happen to know if you can use a charging system like this using hydropower?
Sure. The charger does all the work. It is standard 110v.
You should always connect the positive opposite of the negative. Never both at one end. You wouldn't think it will matter but the resistance adds up fast. Equaling many amps of different between the top and bottom.
Could you hook that battery charger up to the bus bars on the server rack and charge all the batteries at the same time, I've been thinking about doing a set up like this with solar but in the winter I would probably need the help from a generator.
You could. The only reason I did it this way was to top balance them at the same time.
@@CountryLivingExperience That's good to know I appreciate it, I suppose if you had an inverter that had auto gen start with 2 wire start you could have this charger plugged in and connected to the battery bank and it would have the same effect as plugging the generator into the inverter charger?
Do you need to charge each battery individually? Wouldn't the battery bank connected as a whole charge if they are all connected ?
Only to top balance them. Any other time, you would connect the generator to the bus bars. I am actually about ready to do another generator/battery video soon and it should be very informative.
What was the outcome of charging individually and flipping the negative bus bar ?
The individual charging for top balancing only happens one time. Flipping the bus bar ended up not making a difference.
Damn I could run it one from my generator my generator is at 22KW Generac
So did flipping the bus bar over fix your current sharing issue? My batteries have a similar problem to yours. 2nd battery from top doesn’t charge all the way up.
It did not correct the issue.
I've noticed the racks I received have large lugs on both the top and bottom now and have access holes in the bottom as well. The bus bar *should* have low enough resistance to make discharge equivalent for all. I just think the wires they provide to connect the batteries to the bus bar are too small (6 AWG) and should be replaced with larger (resistive losses add up faster at lower voltages).
I thought the same, I have 12 batteries in 2 racks. The wires stay cold so I don’t think there is an issue due to the short length
@@flippingcoins7714 If they got warm there'd be a bigger issue. At relatively low voltages (48v is still relatively low), resistive losses add up fast. I swapped them out just to minimize potential losses at every point of my DC current path. That being said what I am doing is likely overkill based on the Voltage Loss calculator available online.
Not related to top balancing but, Can you charge the batteries with the charger and the generator and have the battery power your house with the inverter at the same time?
Good question that I am not 100% sure about. I tend to say no but this may be a better question for Signature Solar or someone more well versed than I. Sorry.
Great video!I have a 75kW Caterpillar D75 4S LPG generator. I want to buy the EG4 LLs totaling up to 90kWh. Could I use a group of EG4 18kW hybrid inverters to recharge the 90kWh LL battery bank using the Caterpillar? What would be the ideal setup so that when we don't have solar energy nor grid energy, the battery bank will be automatically recharged by the Caterpillar?
Thank you.
That is a huge generator and a lot of batteries. You can charge them through that EG4 18k. I am unfamiliar with how to wire a generator into the 18k specifically but it should be similar to other inverters. Most people wire it into the AC IN side. I am not sure how that works if you have grid power in and a generator at the same time though. We use a generator with an EG4 Chargeverter. That video is here....th-cam.com/video/ru2rqhDOP5o/w-d-xo.html
Since you have the batteries with dual lugs there was an easier way, connect top battery positive to bus bar and bottom battery negative to bus bar. Connect the rest of the batteries in parallel and your done.
Technically that should work. I’d like to see a test on it. But it’s extremely easy to rotate the bus bar also. It’s only 2 screws. So I’m not sure it would save any time.
That really wouldn't save me any time. The bus bar took all of 2 minute to flip. So you are saying connect the batteries in series-parallel?
NOT series parallel, positive to positive and negative to negative, so all positive on left together with top positive to bus bar, all negative together on right with bottom negative to bus bar.
I agree with Eric's comment.
Is there a reason why you didn't use your inverter to individually charge each battery (instead of using a separate charger), after all, the inverter has a built-in charger? I also happen to have a Champion generator (inverter type) and the 60% generator rating (assuming if it is true) doesn't apply because the inverter type generator has a built-in AC to DC to AC electronic converter with less than 3% THD. I have a dual fuel generator and mine uses 0.35 gallon/hour, at $4/gallon of propane, so it is much much cheaper to get electricity from the grid (if available) than using a generator.
My inverters are off-grid. There is no pass through AC from the grid. So the only way I could use them to charge is with my panels.
Yes if you have an inverter type generator, you shouldn't have to worry about the 60%.
The point of charging via generator, whatever type or size, is if you have prolonged grid down and cloudy low solar panel production. It is a rare event so the cost is a moot point especially if you are off-grid like me.
I am trying to learn how to DIY solar.
We have a whole series of videos on our solar install.
If you dont have grid how could you charge your batteries and power house on that tiny gen?
Aren't you around 700 to 800 for gen and charger?
You can get a generac 8 or 10k for about 2x that. Its still not enough for 12 k needed, but for charging individually or top balance, or equalization, off grid should probably be done on a sunny day. Gen could be used when needed to charge batteries.
Why not connect the generator to the built in charger inside the Growatt inverters and start the generator at night time when the loads of your house are small?
That could potentially work but you would have to overcome indeterminate loads like the AC or heat that can cycle on and off continuously.
I don’t understand why you have to overcome the load of the house why not just shut everything off like you did when you unhooked everything to hook up the tiny charger?
Anyone have 2 EG4 24volt batteries in series to run a EG4 3000 48 volt inverter/charger?
Any problems?
I’m doing that.
So how do you power your house when you disconnect the batteries? Is there a way to plug your house into a generator to power your house while using another generator to charge the batteries? I can charge my batteries on my camper with a generator and battery charger but still run my camper off the batteries while they are charging why can't you do that with a solar set up? I am looking to go full off grid but don't want to regret it.
I can charge the batteries from a generator through the inverters. This video was just to shop top balancing mainly. I can also run the house off of the generator directly.
Is it absolutely necessary to unhook all the wires and battery cables? I saw a former video that showed to simply turn off the circuit breaker on all the batteries leaving one battery on. Connect the charger cables to the correct bus bar and charge each battery one at a time. Probably need to have the inverter and the solar disconnect also turned off. Anyone know if this is possible? Would be loads easier!!
For a top balance, I recommend taking all the wires off.
This may sound like a stupid question, but here goes. Is it possible to charge a battery bank with a hand crank generator?
Should be but you will need the proper battery charger between the batteries and generator.
@@CountryLivingExperience I've looked a little deeper from what I could find, I would need to turn the handle on the hand crank generator about 10 hours a day. Possible, but really feasible.
Getting an EG4 charger is the way to go. I have a test setup that is grid tied to a SPF 3000 series growatt interverter with (1) EG4 48 volt 100A battery using it as a UPS for an entire room. There are NO solar panels currently connected to it and the load rarely exceeds 10% in the inverter. Over time, the battery BMS state of charge drifts. It will say that it is fully charged but the voltage of the battery is too low for it to be. I'll put the EG4 charger on it and top it off. It is then good again for a couple of weeks. I have contacted Signature Solar and have not received an acceptable answer as to why this happens. My guess is that if I had solar connected, it might not be an issue
The charger is a great piece of equipment to have for sure. How long does it take to drift?
@@CountryLivingExperience It drifts little by little each day. I work from home and it is mounted to the wall so I can easily glance at it and see the battery voltage on the display. I know when it decides to charge the battery from grid because the fans ramp up and you can see the charge indicator on the inverter. If I just let it go for about 4 weeks, the battery BMS display will show a charge state of 100% but the battery voltage will be down to around 48 volts. Signature Solar told me that it's just the BMS learning the battery, but as a technical person that I am, I question this answer. I believe the BMS can't properly track the current draw since it rarely exceeds 0.6amp draw on the battery (using like a UPS and it generally runs in bypass mode).
Wow. That is actually a lot. Very interesting. I will keep a closer eye on mine to see if this replicates here. I have not noticed anything yet but admittedly I have not monitored it closely.
+1 I have the same setup (no solar panels, using a growatt+battery as a big UPS) and I have seen the exact same thing. Signature Solar couldn't answer what was going on. Question for you - how exactly did you wire up the charger? Are you able to keep the system running and just attach the carger (as opposed to the video where he disconnected all the terminals).
@@jasper9890 I just use the EG4 - 48v charger; I periodically attach it to the battery and top it off when it drops below 50 volts. I do NOT do it while the inverter is running a battery charge cycle though. The charger automatically cuts off at 58 volts and the inverter doesn't seem to protest or mind that it is connected.
I can’t find it anywhere I have the Growatt 5000 and transformer two EG4 48 volt batteries the new charger from Signature solar but no where does it say if I can charge the batteries together in the rack while connected to the system using a small generator- do you know the answer ?
It depends. We did a video with the explanation here…th-cam.com/video/ru2rqhDOP5o/w-d-xo.html
@@CountryLivingExperience thanks for your quick response and I did watch the other video 👍
Why not use a charger that puts out 75amps ?
Used what I had and could find available at the time.
The problem is that we think we need electricity to survive. It’s called being spoiled.
Hi;
Not seeing 25 amp 48 volt charger.
I only see the 18 amp 48 volt charger.
Thank You
Hello. Yes, they discontinued the 25A charger for 48v. For 48v, they have the Chargeverter that can charge at 100A or the 18A. I recommend the Chargeverter because it has a variable output. I did a video on it and I really love it.....th-cam.com/video/ru2rqhDOP5o/w-d-xo.html.
I would never trust a % meter in a battery, particularly when I have found so many cheap voltmeters that are not correct. I would use a test meter on each battery to see their current voltage and make my comparison between the batteries. You also, always, need to make sure that your generator is running on the correct wave length before connecting to your charger or you run the possibility of burning it up.
For sure. I have a Klein clamp meter that I tested the voltage with before and after.
Voltage is not a good indicator of SoC for this chemistry
I am going through a similar situation with EG4 lifepower batteries. I have 12 of them six each in two enclosures. I wasn't getting a full charge for few days but would reach 90 to 95% charge then one battery out of each rack, different locations wpuld show only two lights on out of fpur. I turned off those battery overnight and back on when sun was out and then turned off the entire system off after 100% charge. Now they are charging evenly again. I am not going to relocate one cable to the bottom but the cells must not balance charge as well as we like when they dont reach 100% consistently. Just my thought.
Thanks for the idea.
I just got some new info from Sig Solar a few days ago. They now recommend running them down to 20% and charging to 100% for 7 days in a row to balance them. Hope that helps.
@@CountryLivingExperience
I didn't want to purchase the charger but I might need to for coming winter.
IBecause of my 60 kwh capacity, I have not had it drop no less than 70% . Thanks
That is a lot of batteries!
Why do you have to charge each battery individually?
Just for top balancing initially
@@CountryLivingExperience
Aaaaaannnnnd... the charger terminals can't reach the battery terminals.
I have no idea where you got those clamps from. My charger didn't come with any.
The charger made by the SAME company, can't reach their OWN battery terminals, lol.
Quick question: Can you use the generator and charger, while the system is running, to add power to the system?
Not in this configuration
i really don’t get why the current sharing thing is such an issue. if the top battery draws sooner than the bottom the inverter doesn’t know it looks at the rack as a single battery. once it’s at whatever low voltage cut out it will charge until they are all full again. and each battery has a low voltage disconnect so you can draw it down completely anyway. atleast that’s how my brain processes this
Yes, there are a lot of what ifs within this issue. I had to make a choice between what Will Prowse had potentially discovered and what Sig Solar talked with me about. Flipping that buss bar was fast and easy. A 1 time deal….so no problem.
could you just attach it to the bus bars and charge all at the same time?
At any other time, yes. I was advised to not do it for the top balancing.
@@CountryLivingExperience ah alright so to balance break it down, but in order to emergency charge you could leave it all together
Correct
Since each battery has a breaker could you simply shut all down but the target battery and charge through the busbar?
They have yet to contact me back about my questions and answer .. going on a month now.
They are probably overwhelmed. I would have kept calling them every few days.
@@CountryLivingExperience Olay I may do that... What you say makes sense. thanks.
Can you run the charger while using tje system?
Unfortunately no
@@CountryLivingExperience As we are having rain for next frw days and I don't have a 48v charger, I am entrtaining an idea of feeding 240v from my pure sine wave Honda generator into the unused AC input ports on my Growatt 5000es. Still thinking it through though.
I would consult with Signature Solar on that first. It all depends on the size of the Honda.
Pretty sure your problem stems from taking the positive and negative from one battery. Should take one connection from the top and one from the bottom.
That is not how my system is set up. They all connect to bus bars.
@@CountryLivingExperience I would still recommend a top and bottom connection. Electricity will flow through least resistance. The further from the power leads the more resistance. Doing a top/bottom connection I think is still a good idea.
Are you still currently with your local electrical company
Yes
You need 8kw for your house?
Yes. More sometimes depending on the loads.
So......how does a 2.5kw generator keep up with 8kw of demand ??
It doesn't. This is for an emergency charge. I did another video on running an EG4 Chargeverter with a 10kw generator if continuous power is needed. Here is the link....th-cam.com/video/ru2rqhDOP5o/w-d-xo.html
@@CountryLivingExperience
So it is not really fair to compare it to a whole house generator right
Can the charger connect to the batteries while inverter is on and running?
Yes but the panels must be disconnected
Thank you!
Does that inverter generator output allow green light (fast charge), Mine will only run at low charge rate, red flashing.
@@MrGrandwazzoo45 Mine is not an inverter generator, just a regular generator.
@@CountryLivingExperience Ok, so when I plug this into a 5000 watt regular generator, it still only works at slow charge, I bought a 2000 watt champion, it will not charge 2 batteries at once, my 5000 watt will, but only at slow charge rate.
Please I need the battery charger
How do I get one?
Here is the link to get one...www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=countrylivingexperience
I don't think the charger has a bms in it.
Not sure why you would make this comment. It seems a bit self deprecating.
The charger is from Signature Solar and I do believe they said it has an internal bms but I could be mistaken. Take it up with them.
@@CountryLivingExperience Just letting you know that a bms would have wires for each battery. Was a bit blunt. Will remove sorry.
@@chuxxsss No worries. I was just worried about you.
20kW Generator is $5,500
Yes. Plus installation. Compare that to a $600 generator. Additionally that 20kw is what I would need for a house consuming 8kw. Most households consume way more than 8kw….upwards of 12 to 14kw. Now resize that generator. Expensive all around. I don’t have $6k for a generator.
@@CountryLivingExperience I installed mine myself
Look for old "light towers" for construction
😉
1800 here in colorado
TEMPATURE
O
wait. what? your house runs at 8kW?!? *THAT'S* your first problem! (and i don't believe it) 8kW x 24h = 192kWh/day. that's 5.7Mw per month. uh, no. MAYBE, you can have 'up to' a 8kW draw... like at PEAK draw. for a few minutes. if you run your well pump, heater, a/c, microwave, toaster, make coffee, dryer AND electric stove ALL AT THE SAME TIME... which i doubt you even have all that - let alone run it all at the same time! an 8kW draw is A LOT. charging your electric car on that too? yea, no. lol! what am i missing? my off-grid house runs at about 500w continuously.... not *ANYWHERE* near 8kW!
He is referring to the total output over a short period of time. I’ve had mine pushing out 15,500W for 11min from 2 Schneider 6848, 5,500 for hottub 11min, 5,500 for heat pump hot water for as long as needed and when we have excess solar 3,000 for 3 electric heaters in the basement plus all the standard power loads. Our normal hourly usage is 2kw with all 5 adult family members home. The 30minutes limit for the 2 schneiders is 17kw and 13,6kw constant. We only get close to that when the hottub fires up and all the other heavy loads are pulling.
You never informed us what the results were from flipping the negative buss bar.. You just connected up the first battery and then you ended the video
Results are not yet done being calculated. It takes time and testing to see how some of these thing work.
It won't matter
8kw? What the hell are you doing in your house?
My 8kw system can produce roughly 35kwh of electricity per day on a perfect day. The average household in the US uses 29kwh per day. Consequently, 8000w (8kw) would only be the equivalent of running my lights, freezer/fridge, and phantom loads 1kw, my dryer 5kw, and my stove with one element 2kw at the same time.
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