Thanks for the very thorough comparison! This confirms my worries that Stargrave is essentially Frostgrave in Space. Which is fine for many fans, but as much as I like Frostgrave, this is not what I wanted for scifi. My litmus test is this one: if I just played a match of Frostgrave, would I want to play this as a palate cleanser? If not, it's probably a sign it's too similar. Stargrave doesn't pass my (admittedly subjective) test, and so it's a no-go. Fortunately there is no lack of indie scifi skirmish games... we're living in a tabletop renaissance! :)
Hey, their rules on buying gear are the same ones we came up with as homebrew in our Frostgrave group! I don't mind Stargrave being a little bit of a re-skin if that means it's as much fun as Frostgrave.
Good to see you back. Good luck with your move , l just moved from a suburb of Chicago to Juno Beach Fla. Haven't played either yet , both sound good. Thanks for the heads up.
@@TheTabletopEngineer I think those factors really appeal to gamers who have careers and families, as opposed to the big wargames that were so popular in the 90s and 00s, when the same players (us!) were in single nerds high school, college, or their 20s, who had time to paint and plan lists every evening, and play all day and/or all night every weekend.
Can't wait to get my hands on this. Want to use my old wotc star wars figures with the kids as they're cheap, and then put together some warbands from my collection for my gaming group
Being waiting for this forever, I really like Frostgrave even I only played a few times, got miniatures and still are half way painted... but I have a bunch od scifi terrain and miniatures, so Im ready for this... Thanks for the video and comparision between both games.
Sounds like a great game, I've wanted to play Frostgrave for a while but I do prefer Science Fiction to Fantasy so sounds like this is for me. Thanks for everything.
Thanks for the video, just what I wanted! But let's be real... Stargrave is 90% Frostgrave in space. But isn't that what we (as in people who like Joseph's games) kinda wanted? It is what I wanted at least!
Agreed it's 90% Frostgrave in Space, but even though I love Frostgrave (and Rangers of Shadow Deep) this is not what I wanted. Joseph is an amazing game designer, and I hoped he would build something more different while keeping a core of the same engine. Unfortunately for me, it seems he mostly wrote Frostgrave in Space, which is admittedly what many fans wanted -- but not me. Fortunately there are other indie scifi skirmish games out there!
@@theandf Personally I would prefer the game (FG / SG) to put more emphasis on PvE than PVP. Making it a PvEvP game would be what I'd really be into... But yeah. After seeing the Let's Plays roll in, its pretty close to a just reskin.
@@theandf Yes, I just started playing it. I feel that in the long run it lacks the procedural nature of scenario based PvP game. If ROSD was Ranger vs scenario vs Ranger (with possibly asymmetric goals between players), then it would be pretty darn close to what I'm dreaming about. Maybe one day I'll try to homebrew a system around RoSD.
@@SlitherSlither I'd love to see such a system! Though I'm fine with coop-only, since I tend to play with my (young) nephews, and non-confrontational is best with them :)
Nice comparison. Minor point about 20:50 you say apprentice costs 100 coins in Frostgrave - but that changed in 2e to nil (so same as Stargrave...though recruiting a replacement is different (as you say)).
I love Rogue Stars. Rogue Stars is heavy on the randomization for generating scenarios (multiple charts for that) and a bit more crunchy in the rules for combat.
Rogue Stars is a very detailed, slower paced, less streamlined game. I'm a big fan of its designer, Andrea Sfiligoi, but in the case of Rogue Stars I think it's a miss. The scenario/background random generator is pretty cool though. I think Stargrave, like Frostgrave, is a pretty streamlined, fast play game that gives a very different play experience to Rogue Stars.
From the Stargrave facebook page, someone posted that the scenarios "take place in a space port full of scum and villainy, an abandoned factory, a star base and a lava moon." Have no idea if that's 100% accurate, but it seems reasonable. I do know that the expansion book coming in September will take place on a space station/space hulk.
Surely winning the campaign is different in SG? I imagine there is no first player to magically ascend (or whatever it was called) like in FG wins the campaign.
Northstar will be bringing out a series of plastic sets to compliment the game, like they did with Frostgrave. Personally im just going to use random 40k stuff I already own I think.
@@j453 from what I have seen the boxes will be really handy, you should be able to build entire crews from them. The ones they do for Frostgrave are great.
I was curious about the equipment lists. In FGrave, the hand-weapon was basic, almost everyone had one. Whats the counter in Stargrave? Auto-rifle. like an AR-15? Carbine? Laser rifle/carbine? Just tell me ONE thing! hahaha I have some really cool minis I hardly ever use with ballistic-weapons, mostly ar-15's. Do they exist in Stargrave?
There was a mix over 10 scenarios ranging from starport to urban sprawl to a swamp! A very-unique one that is hard to describe other than lots of terminals.
Constructive criticism time. This video was rambling and had a poor signal-to-noise ratio. In a 58 minute video, at the 7 minute mark you'd finished explaining what a "re-skin" is and that both books had blue on the cover. I'm pretty sure you explained how Frostgrave apprentices work three separate times in a video for people who already have Frostgrave wanting to know how Stargrave compared. I love your terrain videos, but this comparison review would have been better as a written, better edited text document. There were several points where I got up, bored, to do housework while you went off on some tangent about Frostgrave. I appreciate you bringing information about Stargrave to us early, but this video needed some tightening up to keep it focused and on-topic.
So you changed my mind. I was calling it a re-skin and not necessarily as an insult, it's just how I felt. Lots of companies have sci-fi reskins of their popular fantasy games and that's fine. I see Stargrave more as a total conversion mod now, and that makes me more interested but I do wish the core mechanics had changed more. I would love a new activation system and a departure from the gathering of treasure as the primary goal. While there are a ton of new rule changes, I still feel like Stargrave will have me making decisions that are very similar to the decisions I make in Frostgrave. So I don't know. Maybe this one is just a "wait until after it's out and I can thumb through it" release for me.
What's the difference between re-skin and a total conversion? :P I mostly agree with you, but since I already own Frostgrave, I don't want Frostgrave in Space. I want a game designed by Joseph, who is a brilliant designer, but different enough that it actually feels I'm playing a different game.
Mashup and refinement of elements of all his previous games. Sounds like they still aren't allowing even minimal advancement and re-equipping of crew, even the specialists, which is very disappointing. Even Mordheim let you improve your grunts a bit if they managed to stay alive long enough, and its thirty years old. Crew aliens all being humans in rubber suits is extremely lame as well. There really should have been a menu of stat mods & abilities (both helpful and harmful) for xenos, mutants, etc, all with costs for applying them. Not hearing anything that makes this more attractive than the competition here. Rogue Stars, Void Pirates, Blasters & Bulkheads, 5 Parsecs From Home, etc, etc. This is a crowded niche compared to the fantasy skirmish slot FrostGhostRangers fall into.
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Thanks! Great video. I also love Frostgrave and can't wait to get my hands on Stargrave.
Thanks for the very thorough comparison! This confirms my worries that Stargrave is essentially Frostgrave in Space. Which is fine for many fans, but as much as I like Frostgrave, this is not what I wanted for scifi. My litmus test is this one: if I just played a match of Frostgrave, would I want to play this as a palate cleanser? If not, it's probably a sign it's too similar. Stargrave doesn't pass my (admittedly subjective) test, and so it's a no-go. Fortunately there is no lack of indie scifi skirmish games... we're living in a tabletop renaissance! :)
Hey, their rules on buying gear are the same ones we came up with as homebrew in our Frostgrave group! I don't mind Stargrave being a little bit of a re-skin if that means it's as much fun as Frostgrave.
Thanks for the comparison, have been waiting for a Frostgrave-like sci fi game for a long time!
Good to see you back. Good luck with your move , l just moved from a suburb of Chicago to Juno Beach Fla. Haven't played either yet , both sound good. Thanks for the heads up.
Thanks for the preview, I'm so excited to see this coming in April!
I was wondering about the rules. Thanks for doing this video!
Thanks for the comparison! It seems like there really is a wealth of skirmish games at the moment.
They are more popular due to faster play time and lower up-front costs.
@@TheTabletopEngineer I think those factors really appeal to gamers who have careers and families, as opposed to the big wargames that were so popular in the 90s and 00s, when the same players (us!) were in single nerds high school, college, or their 20s, who had time to paint and plan lists every evening, and play all day and/or all night every weekend.
Excellent video, Thank you for hard information! I am very glad that this is already pre-ordered :)
Super excited to get this! Thanks Jim
You are getting me really excited to give this a shot.
This is a good balanced look at the game, thanks for taking the time to go through the comparisons!
Great video. thank you! This sounds exactly like what I want.
Thanks for releasing this video Jim! I look forward to checking out this game when it’s available (to the rest of us : ).
The grenade and flamethrower template are the same used in GW games (old 40k/fantasy/Necromunda)?
I don't know - haven't played those old games. Two sizes of grenade templates and one for flamethrower.
Sounds about right, I’m guessing the small and medium explosion templates.
Good to see you Jim!!!
Can't wait to get my hands on this.
Want to use my old wotc star wars figures with the kids as they're cheap, and then put together some warbands from my collection for my gaming group
I must that have, enough Figures are on my Shelf ;-)
Being waiting for this forever, I really like Frostgrave even I only played a few times, got miniatures and still are half way painted... but I have a bunch od scifi terrain and miniatures, so Im ready for this... Thanks for the video and comparision between both games.
Sounds like a great game, I've wanted to play Frostgrave for a while but I do prefer Science Fiction to Fantasy so sounds like this is for me. Thanks for everything.
Max armour in frostgrave is 15. 🙂
Thanks for the video, just what I wanted! But let's be real... Stargrave is 90% Frostgrave in space. But isn't that what we (as in people who like Joseph's games) kinda wanted? It is what I wanted at least!
Agreed it's 90% Frostgrave in Space, but even though I love Frostgrave (and Rangers of Shadow Deep) this is not what I wanted. Joseph is an amazing game designer, and I hoped he would build something more different while keeping a core of the same engine. Unfortunately for me, it seems he mostly wrote Frostgrave in Space, which is admittedly what many fans wanted -- but not me. Fortunately there are other indie scifi skirmish games out there!
@@theandf Personally I would prefer the game (FG / SG) to put more emphasis on PvE than PVP. Making it a PvEvP game would be what I'd really be into... But yeah. After seeing the Let's Plays roll in, its pretty close to a just reskin.
@@SlitherSlither I suppose you're familiar with Rangers of Shadow Deep then? That's the coop/solo Frostgrave equivalent.
@@theandf Yes, I just started playing it. I feel that in the long run it lacks the procedural nature of scenario based PvP game. If ROSD was Ranger vs scenario vs Ranger (with possibly asymmetric goals between players), then it would be pretty darn close to what I'm dreaming about. Maybe one day I'll try to homebrew a system around RoSD.
@@SlitherSlither I'd love to see such a system! Though I'm fine with coop-only, since I tend to play with my (young) nephews, and non-confrontational is best with them :)
Nice comparison. Minor point about 20:50 you say apprentice costs 100 coins in Frostgrave - but that changed in 2e to nil (so same as Stargrave...though recruiting a replacement is different (as you say)).
Nope. Page 27, very first sentence states “it costs 100gc for a newly created wizard to hire an apprentice.”
@@TheTabletopEngineer You are correct. How did I miss that?
@@gavinpearson74 it SHOULD be free, right? :)
So, how does Stargrave compare to Rogue Stars?
I love Rogue Stars. Rogue Stars is heavy on the randomization for generating scenarios (multiple charts for that) and a bit more crunchy in the rules for combat.
@@jktechwriter Main thing missing from Rogue Stars is some vehicle rules.
@@AzraelThanatos If I remember correctly there where homebrew versions on the FB group
@@AzraelThanatos Stargrave doesn't appear to have vehicle rules either.
Rogue Stars is a very detailed, slower paced, less streamlined game. I'm a big fan of its designer, Andrea Sfiligoi, but in the case of Rogue Stars I think it's a miss. The scenario/background random generator is pretty cool though. I think Stargrave, like Frostgrave, is a pretty streamlined, fast play game that gives a very different play experience to Rogue Stars.
As a designer of laser-cut sci-fi terrain, I'm really curious what terrain is required for the scenarios
From the Stargrave facebook page, someone posted that the scenarios "take place in a space port full of scum and villainy, an abandoned factory, a star base and a lava moon." Have no idea if that's 100% accurate, but it seems reasonable. I do know that the expansion book coming in September will take place on a space station/space hulk.
What's the name of your mdf terrain company?
Surely winning the campaign is different in SG? I imagine there is no first player to magically ascend (or whatever it was called) like in FG wins the campaign.
Whats a good line of sci-fi minis for this game?
Star Wars Legion, Infinity, Mantic, Northstar Minis
Northstar will be bringing out a series of plastic sets to compliment the game, like they did with Frostgrave. Personally im just going to use random 40k stuff I already own I think.
@@Pengi_SMILES i can't wait to see the north star stuff, I don't really have alot of 40k stuff
@@j453 from what I have seen the boxes will be really handy, you should be able to build entire crews from them. The ones they do for Frostgrave are great.
@@Pengi_SMILES i have some of the frostgrave, honestly my plastic greed makes me want more lol, the thought of sci-fi versions is VERY appealing
I was curious about the equipment lists. In FGrave, the hand-weapon was basic, almost everyone had one. Whats the counter in Stargrave? Auto-rifle. like an AR-15? Carbine? Laser rifle/carbine? Just tell me ONE thing! hahaha I have some really cool minis I hardly ever use with ballistic-weapons, mostly ar-15's. Do they exist in Stargrave?
What sort of terrain does Stargrave expect you to play over?
There was a mix over 10 scenarios ranging from starport to urban sprawl to a swamp! A very-unique one that is hard to describe other than lots of terminals.
Anything. Up to and including standard fantasy terrain(even frozen villages)
Woo hoo - first comment. Uh, wait...
Ummm, yeah, about that... ;P
Thank you for doing this but it's almost all tell and no show.
Constructive criticism time. This video was rambling and had a poor signal-to-noise ratio. In a 58 minute video, at the 7 minute mark you'd finished explaining what a "re-skin" is and that both books had blue on the cover. I'm pretty sure you explained how Frostgrave apprentices work three separate times in a video for people who already have Frostgrave wanting to know how Stargrave compared. I love your terrain videos, but this comparison review would have been better as a written, better edited text document. There were several points where I got up, bored, to do housework while you went off on some tangent about Frostgrave. I appreciate you bringing information about Stargrave to us early, but this video needed some tightening up to keep it focused and on-topic.
So you changed my mind. I was calling it a re-skin and not necessarily as an insult, it's just how I felt. Lots of companies have sci-fi reskins of their popular fantasy games and that's fine.
I see Stargrave more as a total conversion mod now, and that makes me more interested but I do wish the core mechanics had changed more. I would love a new activation system and a departure from the gathering of treasure as the primary goal. While there are a ton of new rule changes, I still feel like Stargrave will have me making decisions that are very similar to the decisions I make in Frostgrave. So I don't know. Maybe this one is just a "wait until after it's out and I can thumb through it" release for me.
What's the difference between re-skin and a total conversion? :P I mostly agree with you, but since I already own Frostgrave, I don't want Frostgrave in Space. I want a game designed by Joseph, who is a brilliant designer, but different enough that it actually feels I'm playing a different game.
Mashup and refinement of elements of all his previous games. Sounds like they still aren't allowing even minimal advancement and re-equipping of crew, even the specialists, which is very disappointing. Even Mordheim let you improve your grunts a bit if they managed to stay alive long enough, and its thirty years old. Crew aliens all being humans in rubber suits is extremely lame as well. There really should have been a menu of stat mods & abilities (both helpful and harmful) for xenos, mutants, etc, all with costs for applying them.
Not hearing anything that makes this more attractive than the competition here. Rogue Stars, Void Pirates, Blasters & Bulkheads, 5 Parsecs From Home, etc, etc. This is a crowded niche compared to the fantasy skirmish slot FrostGhostRangers fall into.
Crew can get upgraded/new guns if you find it during missions