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Byf I just wanna say that you're amazing. Way back when I was in middle school (I'm in college now) your lore videos got me hooked on the Destiny narrative, specifically your videos on Rasputin and SIVA. The Ahamkara have always been a super interesting topic and I'm so glad that you've made this! I can't wait to see what lore videos you make next, you'll always be my favorite youtuber
Same here. The lore kept me playing Destiny longer than I was actually interested. I still watch Byf’s lore videos to keep up with the story but I stopped playing before Witch Queen.
As corny as it may sound, Byf’s way of explaining the lore and narrative of Destiny as well as storytelling generally honestly helped me to grow as a writer and eventually pursue an English degree. Bro’s such a great creator
Destiny has had incredible designs over the years, some incredibly creative and unique. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen such an amazing design for these beasts. I can’t imagine any other way dragons obsessed with Faustian bargains would look.
There’s an old sparrow who’s lore has its guardian getting in trouble for having a dragon painted on it and the vanguard chastised them for it. The response was “dragons are cool”
@MynameisByf I think it makes for the thought that the vanguard are paranoid of the CONCEPT of dragons, to where the depiction of one merits criminal investigation. Even the respect for a dragon leads to the fear that it's due to a deal made, or the desire for one, which could lead to an accidental wish.
4:58 Quick and super important note. Remember what Savathun said during the intro to season of the lost? "Who is Savathun you ask? You already know, oh guardian mine..." And Riven at the end of Last Wish? "I thought they'd never leave. You and I are not done. We're inseparable now. Through your actions, we've forged an age-old bond between my kind and yours. One wish granted deserves another. And I cannot wait to show you what SHE asked for. O murderer mine..."
I think you're onto something. Additionally, Savathun has encountered the wish dragons prior to Last Wish stuff. Maybe Savathun started this plan to subvert the Witness then? Or the echoes of those plans as she learned about the Wish dragons? This is speculative, but something was brewing well before out characters on the scene.
@@MyCupOfTea101 Don't worry, its not speculative. Read through the books of sorrow and once more does Sathona use phrases of oh [noun] mine. The worm - Carved in my code by Sathona - Who should be afraid - 1. It was my father’s familiar. I ripped it from him as we fled. It is a dead white thing, segmented, washed up from the deep sea. 2. It’s dead, but it still speaks to me. It says: listen closely, oh vengeance mine... - Sathona’s Protest Sisters, I have my father’s familiar. Look! It answers me in plain words. It helped me find this ship. It gives me strength when hope is lost. Who will you trust? The voice that wants us to live and suffer, as we have lived and suffered? The Leviathan that offers no hope against Taox or the world-wave? Or the plain, honest worm? Let us see where its whisper leads us, Aurash. Let us go deeper, Xi Ro! Let us dive, oh sisters mine.
Ahamkara have to be my favorite things in destiny lore. Everything about them is great, the O ___ mine stuff, granting wished from just a bone, even just the choice of the name Ahamkara is great. It just is a word that feels so good to say.
“Oh how I have changed” I found this quote by Azirim really haunting, because it partially subverts the ‘Oh -noun- mine’ form of the invocation, as a really casual rhetorical trick, before using the full invocation to commit murder.
That white glowing flame around the Ahamkara in the spoiler for the season released shortly after the puzzle was solved looks quite a bit like the odd mist floating out of Cayde's eyes in the trailer for The Final Shape. Perhaps the 15th wish is to put someone behind the enemy's defenses, someone who could open the gates for us to follow. Wouldn't it make a ton of sense if the final wish of Forsaken, tucked away in its Triumph page for 5 years, was the one thing every player of the expansion wanted?
The 15th wish being the collective desire of the Traveler's defenders to have Cayde back would be an absolutely PERFECT narrative tie-off! Wishing him reborn again inside the Traveler seems like the best possible way to work his resurrection into the existing lore and help bring the years-long narrative of devotion, bravery, and sacrifice full circle heading into The Final Shape. I think you totally called it :D
Like it or not, mr second reply, cayde is confirmed coming back. But you would have had a point if you were like "ahamkara wishes are monkey's paw wishes" But noooooo, you tried to cite unrelated junk like some dumbfuck movie or tv show, without even going into specifics. Pay attention to the context, because in this you have nothing worth adding
@@fulgerion Had we simply asked Riven to do so, I imagine that's what would have happened. The last 5 years have given us two advantages we can leverage in this respect: 1) 30:31 A diminished division between Reality-As-Is (the physical world, objective reality, "Light") and Reality-As-Desired (constructs of the mind, subjective reality, "Darkness"). 2) 7:42 A new code for the Wish Wall, originally intended by Queen Mara Sov to limit an Ahamkara's ability to misinterpret/twist demands.
@true-zr9bm Considering this has nothing to do with the root comment, I'm guessing this is a bot? Unless you think I've somehow datamined assets that aren't in the game yet.
As another sucker for dragons, I can't wait to see the full series of Ahamkara lore. Wish they were talked about and expanded upon more in-game. I'll wait for season of the wish tho, not sure how deep they'll go.
@@dembro27 Deep in water, not a super engaging story/gameplay loop (I attribute the witness stuff to something that honestly should’ve been in lightfall). I will give it the dungeon tho. Hoping for more tbh.
6:38 How fitting that Ahamkara, while originally being likely a tongue in cheek reflection of how it's a looter shooter and Guardians wants loot, Ahamkara became a reflection of the predatory entity that Bungie eventually became.
Part of me hopes we see Asha and the new generation of Ahamakara meet. The worms and the wish dragons have always had an interesting similarity. Yet, are different, but so much the same. Parallels almost.
Bit of an odd thought regarding the Ahamkara egg we found in the Imbaru engine. What if the egg was taken from the conquest of the Harmony? It would certainly be from a time before Savathun met Riven who was corrupted by Taken energy. Also it is said in the books of Sorrow that Savathun had completed something in secret after the battle with the Harmony. Mind you this is just a thought on how the Witch Queen obtained an Ahamkara egg uncorrupted.
It is fitting that the last two seasons before Final Shape are centered around two opposite usage of a power that we've always been curious about. Season of the Witch somewhat explained how Hive magic operates and what role the worms play in that usage of that magic. Here in the upcoming Season of the Wish, I hope we'll be given a much more elaborate explanation of how Awoken powers operates and how they tied the wish magic into it during the time Riven was still alive.
Thank you for giving the lore on the dragons of desire the space it needs to breath. This is one of my favourite topics in Destiny, second only to the Warmind, Rasputin. Wish-dragons and their tricky ways really make me feel like we play as space knights, rogues, and wizards. And hopefully, our desire to follow the Witness isn't undermined by our own desire for personal power.
I havent thought about the Ahamkara since Lightfall. Im now really seeing them as Darkness parasites. Feeding on wishes, a particular type of thought and there for darkness
The use of the "O [noun] Mine" is very similar to what Dr. Strange did to Dormammu in 'Doctor Strange (2016)', using the Time Stone to trap the dark entity until a bargain was made. The fact that Titans are the only Guardian class without any Ahamkara-themed Exotic armors is probably connected to the Great Hunt, as Eris mentions in the lore tab featuring Wei Ning.
In many ways, due to wish magic, Eris lost her sight. But in regaining it, she’d obtained anew perspective on life, on the Light and Darkness. As well as her role in this war.
This is why I have loved Dragons since I was a little kid. Dragons as a species hold knowledge, power, and magic beyond human comprehension. In every form they have taken across books, tv, and video games, they have always simply been more.
I checked out Psalm lab a couple weeks back and was surprised to see you’d dropped in and left a comment. His content is amazing. Normally, I just come here because I get the explanation with a bit of periphery. Standard video essay format. Myelin is another great channel and is good if you seek a different perspective but they style feels the same but with different animation. Psalm feels different. Engaging. If this is a video essay, his videos are like watching a David Attenborough documentary. The lore readings have VAs dub. Editing is well done with graphics and to accompany said graphics, they’re used to separate the video into chapters. Really good that there’s segmentation like that. As much as I like both you and Myelin the one thing Psalm gets right is not that stream of consciousness video essay format. It really is step by step lore.
I love that you're doing this series, the great hunt is one of those stories that so easily falls to feeling like myth more so than something characters we know participated in.
Hearing Gheleon and Praedyth’s names again has me looking at my D1 characters in DIM. The game is so rich with lore and I could listen to these videos all day. Looking forward to the rest of the series!
Any day with a long form Byf video is instantly my new favorite day. Combine that with the subject being one of the biggest remaining mysteries, Wish Dragons, I'm one happy Guardian
I deeply appreciate Byf and the others who are so dedicated to covering Destiny lore. For a number of reasons, I just don't have the same passion for playing the game and getting that story for myself like I used to, and that was *before* Bungie made some very ill-advised (and thoroughly discussed) choices. So, yeah, kudos to Byf & co. for creating monster content like this for us all to enjoy the game's lore, narrative, and story, no matter where our own Guardians actually are quest/gameplay wise.
I absolutely love Dragons i am all in on this series Byf thank you for all that you do for the lore fans and D2 players, from the honest takes to the lore dives, you've made Destiny an amazing experience for me over the years
There will be a catch 21 to the wish I think...it may involve us doing a favor for a favor which may result in the dragons returning in some compacity. I think we will need to find a way to limit there return or limit what they can do...Faustian deals are a serious danger.
Hello sir byf! This might be a late one, but from a casual destiny solo grinder (yay LFG) who often times skips seasons and battlepasses, I wanna say thank you for making this ahamkara series
This channel and these types of videos are really helpful for semi new players like myself. I played destiny 2 from launch to forsaken, and then stopped, but I never really learned the lore. Now that I’m back to the game with around 100 hours, so much stuff has happened that I cannot understand without your videos
Of all the allure of Destiny as a setting and all the compelling writing that's gone into it, the Ahamkara have always been my favorite- super looking forward to the rest of this series.
The part when they walked off the cliff singing reminded me of: Gardener is listening to the music of the insects amidst the flowers, the unguent as it begins to drip from the ferns, the slight scratch of the Worm beneath, and not to you, and certainly not to your cries for help. The flying insects are only mentioned in the context of the worms and can only be Ahamkara. They feed differently but from the same source: Insects buzzed between the flowers, and worms slithered between the roots, feeding on what was and what might be, the first gradient in existence, the first dynamo of life. Rain fell from no sky. Voices spoke without mouth or meaning. A tree of silver wings bloomed yielded fruit shed feathers bloomed again. Here they are pushed from the garden, thrash, and become large: And still, we grappled. Our rolling bodies pushed things out of the garden-worms and scurrying life from the fertile soil, wet things from the pools and the leaves. They came out into the madness of primordial space; they thrashed and became large. 'They' include the worms but don't seem to include the flying insects for they're not from the soil nor are they wet things from pools and leaves. Thrashed doesn't seem like a fit for the insects either. So that said, with an emphasis on the Gardener listening to their music, the Ahamkara first appeared in the Sol System after the Traveler arrived. A warlock from the ghost fragment: warlock said "Think of how mysterious this system is. How much life sprung up when the traveler came. Like the ahamkara." That means before anything related to the darkness knew where it was, the Ahamkara knew and was either following behind the Traveler or came with it, still feeding off of what was and what might be. They also coincide with what the gardener wanted. The new rule was to ensure and reward new patterns, to shake things up a bit. That's what wish dragons accomplish and while they may seem evil, the gardener took on the role of the winnower during the flower game so it's not above killing and it doesn't reward the undeserving. Neither do the dragons and they don't interfere with the Traveler nor does it run from them. Assuming Bungo had the Ahamkaras story fleshed out in advance, they seem directly connected to the Traveler. Not the light or dark, because they existed before either one, but to whatever the Gardener is. Then again Bungie is probably making it all up as they go.
Thank you Byf for the incredible coverage of the stories of Destiny. I stopped playing after the dreaming city, but your videos have kept me tied to this incredible tale. May you sing so that I can dream, O content creator mine.
@true-zr9bm dunno mate, all I'll say is PvP is definitely the worst aspect of Destiny, always has been. I been playing since 2014 and I stopped playing d2 because it was too expensive.
Didn’t see how long the video was gonna be, here I am thinking it’s gonna be the average time but then I hear “little mini series” and I look at the time ands it’s 52 minutes. I’m here for all of it.
Ahamkara are truly so terrifying, once you think about them long enough. Literally! Also the last story with Azirim really reminds me of the Pied Piper story.
I don’t play Destiny since the start of the year but any mention of dragons is enough to, almost, get me to play again. Almost. I will settle to listen to Byf ramble about it.
This is the best part of Destiny for me, the "what if" hype in lore and 'what-if' questions from something like that final cut-scene and new season announcement. Byf FTW
LOL..This is some great timing. Literally in my history right now is me looking at lore and history on the purpose of the ahamkara and why they exist from the past 2 days. Great timing on this video Byf.
Hey Byf, thanks for putting out a long video for us during these trying Destiny/Bungie time. You are one of THE Destiny peoples/TH-camrs for the community. Cheers!
Hey Byf, I just wanted to say that I love your content! I started watching you in early middle school, and I have loved your videos ever since. You have gotten me through the low points in D2 and you are truly the reason me and my twin have continued to play the game. We always love listening to your content while we study for our college courses, and we love the quality of content you put out. Your vids are amazing and I just wanted to let you know that we appreciate you! Keep up the work, all of us who follow you are supporting you!
As someone who is writing a story around an ahamkara of light, this is incredibly insightful into their nature and how the ahamkara act. I can’t wait for more.
Ahamkara stuff is always intriguing, and honestly, I like how all that explains the massive presence of amethyst, other gems and even shiny gem-like tech at the awoken. For the "O [noun] Mine", my immediate thought was that it is basically a seal of the deal they make with someone wishing.
I love all the lore around the Ahamkara, from back when they were whispered about in the days of D1 and the Grimoire. Though present in the Grimoire cards and descriptions of the armour pieces linked to Ahamkara, the "O [noun] Mine" is properly explained later, in Truth To Power.
Byf dropping another banger. I did a lore segemnt for my speaking exam in secondary cause of you got a few of my friends hooked on destiny keep up the great work man 🎉🎉
Idk why but around the forsaken era i decided to wait to read the lore books, had always planned to and never did. I think this video has finally gotten me to pick up reading through the immense amount of lore there is. I want to fall in love with this game again and i think you just helped me along byf thanks!
I learned more from this video than years of destiny gaming. Such an interesting aspect of the destiny universe. They could make a whole game on this alone. Thank you for your hard in making this video.
Aside from the Cloudstrike lore, Ahamkara lore is my favorite in this game. I’m so excited for next seasons story and the potential problems it’ll cause lol.
Absolutely love the ahamkara in Destiny. They have to be some of my favourite lore in the game and claws of ahamkara is still my favourite exotic since D1 even if its perk might be "basic" in the sandbox of the game.
Something I found really really interesting that you mention is the use of reflections. And how they can defeat the gods and deception. Hearing that makes the blue wall mechanic in the raid make alot more sense.
Great job on the video Byf. I absolutely love listening to destiny lore...especially when it can fill in holes of knowledge we ("the mighty peons") would necessarily have access too. Keep up the great work.
Byf I don’t want you to take this in a rude way at all in fact I want this to be taken as a really positive compliment. Your videos are perfect for falling asleep to. I had to sleep in a sleeping bag at an out of town college for an event. And I thoight to myself “no way I’m going to get sleep tonight”. I saw u uploaded this, put on some headphones, and not even about halfway through I’m asleep on a makeshift couch in a sleeping bag. And I’m one of those people that need to do 60 position switches and a sacrificial ritual in the night to finally fall asleep. So thank you for this along with educating me on my favorite in-game universe oat.
I’m such a sucker for Dragons. They’re just the coolest. I’m obsessed with franchises like How to Train your Dragon and Wings of Fire. I like any series with dragons in them like The Dragon Prince. I write stories about dragons in my free time, I’m in a dragon RP server and I even am learning how to now design dragon OC’s to go with my stories. So naturally, I’m overjoyed to see our Wish dragons finally surfacing from their depths in the lore again. Welcome back my brothers in bone and sisters in scales.
An interesting thing I want to mention is the consumption of the Gift Mast, that all who partook of it "knew with certainty that they served a great and neccesary purpose." Once Savathun departs, we don't see her again chronologically until the Fundament Shell, where she was scheming on pre-collapse Earth with the Rigby family, and then in Conditional Finality, where she slew Nezarec and stole the Veil, the events alluded to in the "Parasite" quest. I personally think that while Oryx and Xivu doubled down on the Sword Logic and belief that they were ushering in the final shape here, I think Savathun had the opposite reaction. This "secret purpose" she enacted may have been to uncover the identity of the Witness, to learn its' schemes and start taking steps to subvert them. Because right before the Harmony War is the entry where Oryx gifts Quria to Savathun, where Savathun openly expresses doubt about the Final Shape, saying there's no proof that what they're doing is right and just, "we may yet be wrong." Oryx brushes this off, saying the triumvirate are living proof, but Savathun privately acknowledges she's made this exact rationalization before, suggesting she doesn't believe that the way he does. Maybe a Wish Dragon's magic was involved here, maybe Savathun "wanted to learn about the Final Shape", and got exactly what she wanted, but in a monkey's paw way, she learned what the final shape and the creature that would usher it into being was, and that it wasn't her and the Hive. From here, every action Savathun takes is to covertly undermine the Witness and its' efforts, and I think this lore is the root point of this "shift" in her character.
It's cool that Destiny Dev used a good amount of dragon lore from other media like Tolkien for the Ahamkara. Also when talking about magic and with the reflection to help counter act the Ahamkara magic in most fantasy lore order for magic or magic spells to work one has see and hear the magic or spell order for it have a effect on the individual. At least, I remember hearing that in some fantasy media.
I was still watching when making these notes, but I just wanted to jot down some notes of things I noticed. -At ~20:00, Similair to "O (noun) mine" I noticed in the reading of the Books of Sorrow it says a phrase "The Worms our Gods" which seems to be an inverse of the Ontemorphic power stated in the description of the "O (noun) mine" example. This inverse could instead be a way of writing willing subservience. And given that names and words have power- especially in context to Wish Dragons and Worm Gods - it could be the mirror of willingly trapping oneself into the power of another. Stating their name "The Worms" the subject of oneself or those of their following "our" and a restatement trapping themselves with the Ontemorphic sentence "Gods". If the Wish Dragons and Worm Gods have gained upon power of Wish magic separately, but similarly, it could be possible that the Worm Gods use it in this inverse kind of way. By getting their worshippers to invoke their names and/or status and ontemorphically worshipping/subserving themselves to their Gods in that way. -At ~23:00 we see in the Books of Sorrow how right after this conflict with Harmony, who seem to have possessed Wish Dragons, Savathun is the first to say to her siblings after the conflict that she wishes to spend some time apart. Now there could be many reasons- but it wouldn't put it past me that in her infiltration to try and vivisect a Dragon, Savathun's curiosity could have gotten the better of her. And she knew this power was strong, as it held Xivu in deadlock for 50 years. As a schemer, one who feeds off lies, it wouldn't surprise me if Savathun took this time away from her siblings to study the Ahamkara. And within her studies- perhaps then is when she found the Egg we now see at the end of Season if The Witch leading into Season of The Wish? Or perhaps it was possible she found it during her infiltration of the Harmony; and she then sequestered herself and it away knowing it's potential and it's power? Just some theory and conjecture I thought to take note of. -At ~27:00 we see how Uldren admires The Fallen and Mara notes down that "...her brother had at last discovered his true people." Later in Forsaken, it is Uldren who led The Scorn and Fikrul. And now that we have Crow, Fikrul and the Scorn still being out there- I believe it may be possible to tie up some loose ends in a positive note towards peace once the debacle with The Witness is over.
Shapeshifters. That’s also a great retcon or careless writing device. During the Great Hunt and on Young Ahamkara’s Spine they looked more like regular dragons as also seen by the skulls that Shaxx owned. But making them giant meatballs or the triangular headed ape lizard dogs then able to possess humans then become humans is great for Bungie’s deep and meaningful “make it up as you go along” writing style. You can bet it’s almost never complicated. It’s just stuff they write because they think it sounds good at the time.
that's just the special type of poison, 'wishes and wish magic', tend to have in storytelling. You can both Have and Not Have, every and all the reasons you'd want to build with lol
Incredible lore video my guy! Needed some background while I was farming on D2, but now I'm here for the content! Funny tidbit: when you started to read and quote from the Books of Sorrow, just as you started an ad for Burger King started and I was like Xivu wants burgers? Thats all she wants? Hahah!
I absolutely love Ahamkara, they're probably my favorite idea in D2's lore. TBH I'm not sure if I like them just because of the lore, or because Riven (legit) is the in my opinion the best designed encounter Bungie has put out across every raid, dungeon, and other encounter. Probably a little bit of both.
I think the witness gave the dragons wish magic. The "our gods" line could be referring to the witness, and the act of "wish" magic is feeding on the potential of free will, and collapsing that potential into a finite, unavoidable future. A "wish" for something in the future to be certain.
When I first saw riven...I always wanted like a smaller one. I was like, how cool would it be to have a dragon fight with us. I'm excited I guess to see how this goes
Byf im so excited for this series! I quit destiny after warmind and got back into it when Forsaken came out! My knowledge of Abamkara is pretty low, but this low always continues to fascinate me. Keep up the good work. Write as many pages as you want
Nice. I have a general understanding of Ahamkara but it helps to fill in the gaps. Also, that Awoken lore sounds like it was written by Michael Kirkbride. NUME! CAUST! ...CHIM?
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If you were to give the ahamkara dragon baby next season a name, what would you name it?
@@Roodeetoophil
I want ahamkara armor for titans, so hopefully that comes out.
I know a lot of people don't care but I truly appreciate that you've only taken GOOD sponsors, I'll never skip the ads as long as that stays the case👏
Byf I just wanna say that you're amazing. Way back when I was in middle school (I'm in college now) your lore videos got me hooked on the Destiny narrative, specifically your videos on Rasputin and SIVA. The Ahamkara have always been a super interesting topic and I'm so glad that you've made this! I can't wait to see what lore videos you make next, you'll always be my favorite youtuber
Same here. The lore kept me playing Destiny longer than I was actually interested. I still watch Byf’s lore videos to keep up with the story but I stopped playing before Witch Queen.
gayyyyyy!
Hey shhhhh, don't make him feel old
@@michaelmontalvo7441congrats on your coming out!
As corny as it may sound, Byf’s way of explaining the lore and narrative of Destiny as well as storytelling generally honestly helped me to grow as a writer and eventually pursue an English degree. Bro’s such a great creator
Destiny has had incredible designs over the years, some incredibly creative and unique.
But I don’t think I’ve ever seen such an amazing design for these beasts. I can’t imagine any other way dragons obsessed with Faustian bargains would look.
I hope we see an Ahamkara flying
@Seasonofwar1skill issue
Too bad the writing went down the gutter
There’s an old sparrow who’s lore has its guardian getting in trouble for having a dragon painted on it and the vanguard chastised them for it. The response was “dragons are cool”
Dinas Emerys if I remember correctly?
It did come up in my research, but it wasn't relevant enough to include.
@true-zr9bmcompletely off topic
@MynameisByf I think it makes for the thought that the vanguard are paranoid of the CONCEPT of dragons, to where the depiction of one merits criminal investigation. Even the respect for a dragon leads to the fear that it's due to a deal made, or the desire for one, which could lead to an accidental wish.
@Seasonofwar1skill issue
@@Blank-Paper Then again plenty of guardians literally wear Ahamkara bones in their armour.
4:58 Quick and super important note. Remember what Savathun said during the intro to season of the lost? "Who is Savathun you ask? You already know, oh guardian mine..."
And Riven at the end of Last Wish? "I thought they'd never leave. You and I are not done. We're inseparable now. Through your actions, we've forged an age-old bond between my kind and yours. One wish granted deserves another. And I cannot wait to show you what SHE asked for. O murderer mine..."
I think you're onto something. Additionally, Savathun has encountered the wish dragons prior to Last Wish stuff. Maybe Savathun started this plan to subvert the Witness then? Or the echoes of those plans as she learned about the Wish dragons? This is speculative, but something was brewing well before out characters on the scene.
@@MyCupOfTea101 Don't worry, its not speculative. Read through the books of sorrow and once more does Sathona use phrases of oh [noun] mine.
The worm -
Carved in my code by Sathona -
Who should be afraid -
1. It was my father’s familiar. I ripped it from him as we fled. It is a dead white thing, segmented, washed up from the deep sea.
2. It’s dead, but it still speaks to me. It says: listen closely, oh vengeance mine...
-
Sathona’s Protest
Sisters, I have my father’s familiar. Look! It answers me in plain words. It helped me find this ship. It gives me strength when hope is lost.
Who will you trust? The voice that wants us to live and suffer, as we have lived and suffered? The Leviathan that offers no hope against Taox or the world-wave?
Or the plain, honest worm?
Let us see where its whisper leads us, Aurash. Let us go deeper, Xi Ro!
Let us dive, oh sisters mine.
Sorry, I’m a bit dumb. What does this mean? What does it imply? Seems like a very important note
@@hlwnspice implies riven talked to us at the start of that season, and was talking about savathun. And foreshadowed the season of the wish
@true-zr9bmoff topic again
Praedyth: Man, I hope I get to fight like this forever.
Ahamkara: *Bet.*
@@kurtisl051 Praedvth in the Vault of glass raid for 1 millionth time: PLEASE LET ME DIE AHH-
Praedyth im the Vault of Glass for the millionth time: Please… no more this is not fun anymore…
The techeuns watching us land in the dreaming city : uh, watcha got there?
Hunters carrying several ahamkara exotics : a smoothie
Ahamkara have to be my favorite things in destiny lore. Everything about them is great, the O ___ mine stuff, granting wished from just a bone, even just the choice of the name Ahamkara is great. It just is a word that feels so good to say.
@Seasonofwar1skill issue
O, sweet child of mine🎶
~Guns'n'Roses, a powerful group of dragons
“Oh how I have changed”
I found this quote by Azirim really haunting, because it partially subverts the ‘Oh -noun- mine’ form of the invocation, as a really casual rhetorical trick, before using the full invocation to commit murder.
That white glowing flame around the Ahamkara in the spoiler for the season released shortly after the puzzle was solved looks quite a bit like the odd mist floating out of Cayde's eyes in the trailer for The Final Shape. Perhaps the 15th wish is to put someone behind the enemy's defenses, someone who could open the gates for us to follow. Wouldn't it make a ton of sense if the final wish of Forsaken, tucked away in its Triumph page for 5 years, was the one thing every player of the expansion wanted?
The 15th wish being the collective desire of the Traveler's defenders to have Cayde back would be an absolutely PERFECT narrative tie-off! Wishing him reborn again inside the Traveler seems like the best possible way to work his resurrection into the existing lore and help bring the years-long narrative of devotion, bravery, and sacrifice full circle heading into The Final Shape. I think you totally called it :D
Like it or not, mr second reply, cayde is confirmed coming back.
But you would have had a point if you were like "ahamkara wishes are monkey's paw wishes"
But noooooo, you tried to cite unrelated junk like some dumbfuck movie or tv show, without even going into specifics.
Pay attention to the context, because in this you have nothing worth adding
@@fulgerion Had we simply asked Riven to do so, I imagine that's what would have happened. The last 5 years have given us two advantages we can leverage in this respect:
1) 30:31 A diminished division between Reality-As-Is (the physical world, objective reality, "Light") and Reality-As-Desired (constructs of the mind, subjective reality, "Darkness").
2) 7:42 A new code for the Wish Wall, originally intended by Queen Mara Sov to limit an Ahamkara's ability to misinterpret/twist demands.
@true-zr9bm Considering this has nothing to do with the root comment, I'm guessing this is a bot? Unless you think I've somehow datamined assets that aren't in the game yet.
@Seasonofwar1skill issue
As another sucker for dragons, I can't wait to see the full series of Ahamkara lore. Wish they were talked about and expanded upon more in-game. I'll wait for season of the wish tho, not sure how deep they'll go.
You.. wish?? Great now we know why we got the season and the fucking ahamkara twisted it into a 7 month one
You and me both XD
We've already had a Deep season! But maybe they can do a second one.
@@obliviouscrab3125 I never should’ve completed the imbaru engine
@@dembro27 Deep in water, not a super engaging story/gameplay loop (I attribute the witness stuff to something that honestly should’ve been in lightfall). I will give it the dungeon tho. Hoping for more tbh.
6:38 How fitting that Ahamkara, while originally being likely a tongue in cheek reflection of how it's a looter shooter and Guardians wants loot, Ahamkara became a reflection of the predatory entity that Bungie eventually became.
Oh man, it'd be hilarious of Savathun's egg wasn't of Riven's brood, but was an old Harmony egg she's squirreled away for a later date.
Part of me hopes we see Asha and the new generation of Ahamakara meet. The worms and the wish dragons have always had an interesting similarity. Yet, are different, but so much the same. Parallels almost.
Bit of an odd thought regarding the Ahamkara egg we found in the Imbaru engine. What if the egg was taken from the conquest of the Harmony? It would certainly be from a time before Savathun met Riven who was corrupted by Taken energy. Also it is said in the books of Sorrow that Savathun had completed something in secret after the battle with the Harmony. Mind you this is just a thought on how the Witch Queen obtained an Ahamkara egg uncorrupted.
It is fitting that the last two seasons before Final Shape are centered around two opposite usage of a power that we've always been curious about. Season of the Witch somewhat explained how Hive magic operates and what role the worms play in that usage of that magic. Here in the upcoming Season of the Wish, I hope we'll be given a much more elaborate explanation of how Awoken powers operates and how they tied the wish magic into it during the time Riven was still alive.
Thank you for giving the lore on the dragons of desire the space it needs to breath. This is one of my favourite topics in Destiny, second only to the Warmind, Rasputin. Wish-dragons and their tricky ways really make me feel like we play as space knights, rogues, and wizards. And hopefully, our desire to follow the Witness isn't undermined by our own desire for personal power.
awesome to see that you're bringing out the lore on the ahamkara at this time, as a wannabe hive god, the ahamkara are my 2nd favorite design so far
I havent thought about the Ahamkara since Lightfall. Im now really seeing them as Darkness parasites. Feeding on wishes, a particular type of thought and there for darkness
The use of the "O [noun] Mine" is very similar to what Dr. Strange did to Dormammu in 'Doctor Strange (2016)', using the Time Stone to trap the dark entity until a bargain was made.
The fact that Titans are the only Guardian class without any Ahamkara-themed Exotic armors is probably connected to the Great Hunt, as Eris mentions in the lore tab featuring Wei Ning.
WHOOHOO YEAH BABY THATS WHAT I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR!
In many ways, due to wish magic, Eris lost her sight. But in regaining it, she’d obtained anew perspective on life, on the Light and Darkness. As well as her role in this war.
Byf carrying my love for lore in destiny since I was 16 much love man
I'm so ready for this entire series 👀. Can't wait to hear it all
This is why I have loved Dragons since I was a little kid. Dragons as a species hold knowledge, power, and magic beyond human comprehension. In every form they have taken across books, tv, and video games, they have always simply been more.
The books of sorrow are really interesting to me for one particular reason: the style in which they’re written is similar to that of the Bible.
I checked out Psalm lab a couple weeks back and was surprised to see you’d dropped in and left a comment. His content is amazing. Normally, I just come here because I get the explanation with a bit of periphery. Standard video essay format. Myelin is another great channel and is good if you seek a different perspective but they style feels the same but with different animation.
Psalm feels different. Engaging. If this is a video essay, his videos are like watching a David Attenborough documentary. The lore readings have VAs dub. Editing is well done with graphics and to accompany said graphics, they’re used to separate the video into chapters. Really good that there’s segmentation like that. As much as I like both you and Myelin the one thing Psalm gets right is not that stream of consciousness video essay format. It really is step by step lore.
I love that you're doing this series, the great hunt is one of those stories that so easily falls to feeling like myth more so than something characters we know participated in.
Isn’t riven bound to us since we wished for her death? Kinda just waiting for her to come back into the story
Hearing Gheleon and Praedyth’s names again has me looking at my D1 characters in DIM.
The game is so rich with lore and I could listen to these videos all day. Looking forward to the rest of the series!
Any day with a long form Byf video is instantly my new favorite day. Combine that with the subject being one of the biggest remaining mysteries, Wish Dragons, I'm one happy Guardian
I deeply appreciate Byf and the others who are so dedicated to covering Destiny lore. For a number of reasons, I just don't have the same passion for playing the game and getting that story for myself like I used to, and that was *before* Bungie made some very ill-advised (and thoroughly discussed) choices.
So, yeah, kudos to Byf & co. for creating monster content like this for us all to enjoy the game's lore, narrative, and story, no matter where our own Guardians actually are quest/gameplay wise.
I absolutely love Dragons i am all in on this series
Byf thank you for all that you do for the lore fans and D2 players, from the honest takes to the lore dives, you've made Destiny an amazing experience for me over the years
Do you think now that there is an uncorrupted wish dragon , the species will come back from extinction by say a wish or something
I think this is the last thing we want happening there’s a reason these thing wrre huntedvto exiction
No, I agree, but now that there is a wish dragon that isn't taken, it opens up the flood gates
@@nightfurynadder1992 which is why we need to make this this thing doesn't go crazy
@@pugwash1I'd raise a baby wish dragon. Not sure about others
There will be a catch 21 to the wish I think...it may involve us doing a favor for a favor which may result in the dragons returning in some compacity. I think we will need to find a way to limit there return or limit what they can do...Faustian deals are a serious danger.
Hello sir byf! This might be a late one, but from a casual destiny solo grinder (yay LFG) who often times skips seasons and battlepasses, I wanna say thank you for making this ahamkara series
This channel and these types of videos are really helpful for semi new players like myself. I played destiny 2 from launch to forsaken, and then stopped, but I never really learned the lore. Now that I’m back to the game with around 100 hours, so much stuff has happened that I cannot understand without your videos
Of all the allure of Destiny as a setting and all the compelling writing that's gone into it, the Ahamkara have always been my favorite- super looking forward to the rest of this series.
I just finished watching the last video and I immediately looked to see if this video was posted yet.
The part when they walked off the cliff singing reminded me of: Gardener is listening to the music of the insects amidst
the flowers, the unguent as it begins to drip from the ferns, the slight scratch of the Worm beneath, and not to
you, and certainly not to your cries for help.
The flying insects are only mentioned in the context of the worms and can only be Ahamkara. They feed differently but from the same source: Insects buzzed between the flowers, and worms slithered between the roots, feeding on what was and what might be, the first gradient in existence, the first dynamo of life. Rain fell from no sky. Voices spoke without mouth or meaning. A tree of silver wings bloomed yielded fruit shed feathers bloomed again.
Here they are pushed from the garden, thrash, and become large: And still, we grappled. Our rolling bodies pushed things out of the garden-worms and scurrying life from the fertile soil, wet things from the pools and the leaves. They came out into the madness of primordial space; they thrashed and became large.
'They' include the worms but don't seem to include the flying insects for they're not from the soil nor are they wet things from pools and leaves. Thrashed doesn't seem like a fit for the insects either.
So that said, with an emphasis on the Gardener listening to their music, the Ahamkara first appeared in the Sol System after the Traveler arrived. A warlock from the ghost fragment: warlock said "Think of how mysterious this system is. How much life sprung up when the traveler came. Like the ahamkara."
That means before anything related to the darkness knew where it was, the Ahamkara knew and was either following behind the Traveler or came with it, still feeding off of what was and what might be. They also coincide with what the gardener wanted. The new rule was to ensure and reward new patterns, to shake things up a bit. That's what wish dragons accomplish and while they may seem evil, the gardener took on the role of the winnower during the flower game so it's not above killing and it doesn't reward the undeserving. Neither do the dragons and they don't interfere with the Traveler nor does it run from them.
Assuming Bungo had the Ahamkaras story fleshed out in advance, they seem directly connected to the Traveler. Not the light or dark, because they existed before either one, but to whatever the Gardener is. Then again Bungie is probably making it all up as they go.
Thank you Byf for the incredible coverage of the stories of Destiny. I stopped playing after the dreaming city, but your videos have kept me tied to this incredible tale. May you sing so that I can dream, O content creator mine.
@true-zr9bm dunno mate, all I'll say is PvP is definitely the worst aspect of Destiny, always has been. I been playing since 2014 and I stopped playing d2 because it was too expensive.
Didn’t see how long the video was gonna be, here I am thinking it’s gonna be the average time but then I hear “little mini series” and I look at the time ands it’s 52 minutes. I’m here for all of it.
Ahamkara are truly so terrifying, once you think about them long enough. Literally! Also the last story with Azirim really reminds me of the Pied Piper story.
I don’t play Destiny since the start of the year but any mention of dragons is enough to, almost, get me to play again. Almost. I will settle to listen to Byf ramble about it.
This is the best part of Destiny for me, the "what if" hype in lore and 'what-if' questions from something like that final cut-scene and new season announcement. Byf FTW
Yeah. The writers getting rid of any bit of mystery and speculation really killed the lore and story for me.
LOL..This is some great timing. Literally in my history right now is me looking at lore and history on the purpose of the ahamkara and why they exist from the past 2 days. Great timing on this video Byf.
Hey Byf, thanks for putting out a long video for us during these trying Destiny/Bungie time. You are one of THE Destiny peoples/TH-camrs for the community. Cheers!
Hey Byf, I just wanted to say that I love your content! I started watching you in early middle school, and I have loved your videos ever since. You have gotten me through the low points in D2 and you are truly the reason me and my twin have continued to play the game. We always love listening to your content while we study for our college courses, and we love the quality of content you put out. Your vids are amazing and I just wanted to let you know that we appreciate you! Keep up the work, all of us who follow you are supporting you!
As someone who is writing a story around an ahamkara of light, this is incredibly insightful into their nature and how the ahamkara act. I can’t wait for more.
Ahamkara stuff is always intriguing, and honestly, I like how all that explains the massive presence of amethyst, other gems and even shiny gem-like tech at the awoken. For the "O [noun] Mine", my immediate thought was that it is basically a seal of the deal they make with someone wishing.
I love all the lore around the Ahamkara, from back when they were whispered about in the days of D1 and the Grimoire. Though present in the Grimoire cards and descriptions of the armour pieces linked to Ahamkara, the "O [noun] Mine" is properly explained later, in Truth To Power.
Byf dropping another banger.
I did a lore segemnt for my speaking exam in secondary cause of you got a few of my friends hooked on destiny keep up the great work man 🎉🎉
Idk why but around the forsaken era i decided to wait to read the lore books, had always planned to and never did. I think this video has finally gotten me to pick up reading through the immense amount of lore there is. I want to fall in love with this game again and i think you just helped me along byf thanks!
It’s been so long since I watched a hr video. The moment I hear dragons are back on the game I’m excited.
O the Ahamkara, probably my favourite depiction of dragons in all sci-fi/fantasy media I've seen.
This is the mini series we all need and waited for. Go ahead, good sir!
I learned more from this video than years of destiny gaming. Such an interesting aspect of the destiny universe. They could make a whole game on this alone. Thank you for your hard in making this video.
Yessss!!!! I was waiting for this!!!!!
I love so much everything about the Awoken and the Ahamkara.
Go on and make as many of these as you wish, I love the long form factor lore stories. I listen to them on road trips like audio books
Aside from the Cloudstrike lore, Ahamkara lore is my favorite in this game. I’m so excited for next seasons story and the potential problems it’ll cause lol.
You love to see a 53 minutes video and it says Part 1 on it. Its just *chef kiss*
Absolutely love the ahamkara in Destiny. They have to be some of my favourite lore in the game and claws of ahamkara is still my favourite exotic since D1 even if its perk might be "basic" in the sandbox of the game.
"careful what you wish for" is the Ahamkara in a nutshell
Something I found really really interesting that you mention is the use of reflections. And how they can defeat the gods and deception. Hearing that makes the blue wall mechanic in the raid make alot more sense.
Thanks for this Byf. It would be awesome to have a Warlock exotic based on Azirim’s lore that pairs with Phoenix Dive.
@Seasonofwar1 Dude quit it with the spam
I love the triple precision weapons in the background gameplay
nice video! Never knew all of this existed before it. I don't even play the game anymore but love keeping up to the story with your channel
Great job on the video Byf. I absolutely love listening to destiny lore...especially when it can fill in holes of knowledge we ("the mighty peons") would necessarily have access too. Keep up the great work.
This is going to be interesting, can't wait for the whole series
So glad you are telling people about psalm.
This is excellent sir! Thank you for doing the long form lore videos.
Byf I don’t want you to take this in a rude way at all in fact I want this to be taken as a really positive compliment. Your videos are perfect for falling asleep to. I had to sleep in a sleeping bag at an out of town college for an event. And I thoight to myself “no way I’m going to get sleep tonight”. I saw u uploaded this, put on some headphones, and not even about halfway through I’m asleep on a makeshift couch in a sleeping bag. And I’m one of those people that need to do 60 position switches and a sacrificial ritual in the night to finally fall asleep. So thank you for this along with educating me on my favorite in-game universe oat.
I’m such a sucker for Dragons. They’re just the coolest. I’m obsessed with franchises like How to Train your Dragon and Wings of Fire. I like any series with dragons in them like The Dragon Prince. I write stories about dragons in my free time, I’m in a dragon RP server and I even am learning how to now design dragon OC’s to go with my stories. So naturally, I’m overjoyed to see our Wish dragons finally surfacing from their depths in the lore again. Welcome back my brothers in bone and sisters in scales.
Was really looking forward to this video. Dragon lore
Yeah, Riven (everything about) got me invested. Saved this for a good time to enjoy. much appreciated
Just listening to Byf go over all of this. Destiny truly could be even bigger and better than what it is
byf we really appreciate you I hope you know that
So Ahamkara's are basically shape shifting wish granting Cats, they live among Awoken but do not fully trust them.
I'm surprised that Byf didn't use the story of King Midas as an example of a twisted wish.
King Midas: Old but gold.
Ain’t no stopping the Byf !
An interesting thing I want to mention is the consumption of the Gift Mast, that all who partook of it "knew with certainty that they served a great and neccesary purpose." Once Savathun departs, we don't see her again chronologically until the Fundament Shell, where she was scheming on pre-collapse Earth with the Rigby family, and then in Conditional Finality, where she slew Nezarec and stole the Veil, the events alluded to in the "Parasite" quest.
I personally think that while Oryx and Xivu doubled down on the Sword Logic and belief that they were ushering in the final shape here, I think Savathun had the opposite reaction. This "secret purpose" she enacted may have been to uncover the identity of the Witness, to learn its' schemes and start taking steps to subvert them.
Because right before the Harmony War is the entry where Oryx gifts Quria to Savathun, where Savathun openly expresses doubt about the Final Shape, saying there's no proof that what they're doing is right and just, "we may yet be wrong." Oryx brushes this off, saying the triumvirate are living proof, but Savathun privately acknowledges she's made this exact rationalization before, suggesting she doesn't believe that the way he does.
Maybe a Wish Dragon's magic was involved here, maybe Savathun "wanted to learn about the Final Shape", and got exactly what she wanted, but in a monkey's paw way, she learned what the final shape and the creature that would usher it into being was, and that it wasn't her and the Hive. From here, every action Savathun takes is to covertly undermine the Witness and its' efforts, and I think this lore is the root point of this "shift" in her character.
Im so glad you did a rehash on ahmkara lore thank you byf
It's cool that Destiny Dev used a good amount of dragon lore from other media like Tolkien for the Ahamkara. Also when talking about magic and with the reflection to help counter act the Ahamkara magic in most fantasy lore order for magic or magic spells to work one has see and hear the magic or spell order for it have a effect on the individual. At least, I remember hearing that in some fantasy media.
Didn't even realize the video was 50 minutes long till I finished
I love these long format vids so much
I was still watching when making these notes, but I just wanted to jot down some notes of things I noticed.
-At ~20:00, Similair to "O (noun) mine" I noticed in the reading of the Books of Sorrow it says a phrase "The Worms our Gods" which seems to be an inverse of the Ontemorphic power stated in the description of the "O (noun) mine" example. This inverse could instead be a way of writing willing subservience. And given that names and words have power- especially in context to Wish Dragons and Worm Gods - it could be the mirror of willingly trapping oneself into the power of another. Stating their name "The Worms" the subject of oneself or those of their following "our" and a restatement trapping themselves with the Ontemorphic sentence "Gods". If the Wish Dragons and Worm Gods have gained upon power of Wish magic separately, but similarly, it could be possible that the Worm Gods use it in this inverse kind of way. By getting their worshippers to invoke their names and/or status and ontemorphically worshipping/subserving themselves to their Gods in that way.
-At ~23:00 we see in the Books of Sorrow how right after this conflict with Harmony, who seem to have possessed Wish Dragons, Savathun is the first to say to her siblings after the conflict that she wishes to spend some time apart. Now there could be many reasons- but it wouldn't put it past me that in her infiltration to try and vivisect a Dragon, Savathun's curiosity could have gotten the better of her. And she knew this power was strong, as it held Xivu in deadlock for 50 years. As a schemer, one who feeds off lies, it wouldn't surprise me if Savathun took this time away from her siblings to study the Ahamkara. And within her studies- perhaps then is when she found the Egg we now see at the end of Season if The Witch leading into Season of The Wish? Or perhaps it was possible she found it during her infiltration of the Harmony; and she then sequestered herself and it away knowing it's potential and it's power? Just some theory and conjecture I thought to take note of.
-At ~27:00 we see how Uldren admires The Fallen and Mara notes down that "...her brother had at last discovered his true people." Later in Forsaken, it is Uldren who led The Scorn and Fikrul. And now that we have Crow, Fikrul and the Scorn still being out there- I believe it may be possible to tie up some loose ends in a positive note towards peace once the debacle with The Witness is over.
Up to 60 pages and not even to the great hunt. Byf you don't have to bring Christmas early bro.. loving it o' lore bearer mine
Shapeshifters.
That’s also a great retcon or careless writing device.
During the Great Hunt and on Young Ahamkara’s Spine they looked more like regular dragons as also seen by the skulls that Shaxx owned.
But making them giant meatballs or the triangular headed ape lizard dogs then able to possess humans then become humans is great for Bungie’s deep and meaningful “make it up as you go along” writing style.
You can bet it’s almost never complicated.
It’s just stuff they write because they think it sounds good at the time.
that's just the special type of poison, 'wishes and wish magic', tend to have in storytelling. You can both Have and Not Have, every and all the reasons you'd want to build with lol
Love the psalm lab shoutout, dude needs so much more attention than he gets ❤
Incredible lore video my guy! Needed some background while I was farming on D2, but now I'm here for the content! Funny tidbit: when you started to read and quote from the Books of Sorrow, just as you started an ad for Burger King started and I was like Xivu wants burgers? Thats all she wants? Hahah!
Bfy, You Mad Lad, This is WILDLY LONG. And put a "part 1" Cant wait for part 2
I absolutely love Ahamkara, they're probably my favorite idea in D2's lore. TBH I'm not sure if I like them just because of the lore, or because Riven (legit) is the in my opinion the best designed encounter Bungie has put out across every raid, dungeon, and other encounter. Probably a little bit of both.
I mean its basically dragon ball no?
I think the witness gave the dragons wish magic. The "our gods" line could be referring to the witness, and the act of "wish" magic is feeding on the potential of free will, and collapsing that potential into a finite, unavoidable future. A "wish" for something in the future to be certain.
Ive always been enamored by the ahamkara im hoping we get more and more stories regarding them post the season of the wish
Thanks for the videos man, my gf got me into destiny last month and I had so many questions about lore so finding your videos was great
When I first saw riven...I always wanted like a smaller one. I was like, how cool would it be to have a dragon fight with us. I'm excited I guess to see how this goes
Byf this is your best stuff yet. Keep it coming!
Byf im so excited for this series! I quit destiny after warmind and got back into it when Forsaken came out! My knowledge of Abamkara is pretty low, but this low always continues to fascinate me. Keep up the good work. Write as many pages as you want
The Awoken lore is truly divine. And that's the main reason why I love Destiny 2 so much. Huge thank you to the writers who originally created it.
I quit destiny 2 with Shadowkeep and didn't pick it back up ever since. Still I just can't quit Byf and those videos.
Nice. I have a general understanding of Ahamkara but it helps to fill in the gaps. Also, that Awoken lore sounds like it was written by Michael Kirkbride. NUME! CAUST! ...CHIM?