@ 51:11 Dr. Tuggy, the text plainly says that the Word became Flesh! The word also clearly says that Christ created all things! Does no one see the issue here in Dr. Tuggy refuting the plain reading and meaning of the text?
Word is not a physical person. It is God's attribute. It is his Logos, translated from the Greek as the thought/plan/purpose of God, which was revealed through a human being Jesus.
@@basilhendricks788 that means Jesus is Devine by nature of being begotten. God is not begotten, begotten by definition means created, surley the apostles weren't saying God was created. Only a roman would think God becomes man or the other way around.
worship as....? David and Saul were worshipped as earthly kings. Idols were worshipped as god. Jesus was worshipped by his disciples as...? [Simon Peter said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."]
the wise men worship Jesus as king of israel,thats they leave him immediately,if they think Jesus is a God they would ask that god-man protection,Jesus is worshipped as king@@superviola88
@@Jrce11 right if you read earlier in John it was the same Thomas who didn't see the father in Christ when Yeshua said if you have seen me you have seen the father. At that moment post resurrection Thomas saw His Lord Yeshua the son of God and his God Yahweh that Yeshua testified was with him, in him, who's word he was speaking, and who's works he was doing. God his father. Its coming full circle and reaching understanding and a place of believing because he is now sees the Lord resurrected
Did God the Father tell all his angels to worship them like he told them to worship his Son? God the Father says in Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 1:6 And again, when when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. God the Father saith, "Let all the angels of God worship him."
This is why I believe that translations matter. If you read the 1560 Geneva Bible, John 1:1-4 says, “In the beginning was THE Word, and THE Word was with God, and ‘THAT’ Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by ‘IT’ and without ‘IT’ was made nothing that was made. In ‘IT’ was life, and the life was the light of men.” That clearly supports and backs up Genesis 1:3, “And God ‘said’ “Let there be light” and there was light” I believe that it’s clear at the beginning of John that he was referring to God speaking the world into existence…proving that Isaiah is true that says He stretched forth the heavens and earth by Himself and that there was no one with Him
WOW! When Dr Tuggy spoke during his introduction it felt cold and calculated but when Dr. Brown spoke, it moved me to tears! To think that God Himself would come down and die for me, and not only that, to take upon Himself the brutal punishment I deserved is a love that is truly divine! Surely, no mere mortal could have walked in thought and in deed without sin and also take upon himself this monumental burden unless he be God! HallelluYAH!
I must caution you to NOT accept a doctrine because it feels better or because it moves you to tears. These are all very subjective things, and they are not a firm foundation upon which true Faith should be founded. God gave us the ability to reason, and we must use it when we worship Him. The truth is that the Holy Scriptures teach us that there is only one true God, Yhwh, and that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are all called Yhwh, the only one true God. The Father sends the Son, and the Father and the Son send the Holy Ghost. The Son entered into His Creation in human flesh at a point in history, He lived a sinless human life, suffered, died, resurrected and ascended, and the Holy Ghost lives in and amongst God's people until Jesus,, the Son in human flesh, returns and He will judge us and restore all things. Holy Scripture is God speaking to us, and it is sure and trustworthy. Human emotions are not!
@@PrenticeBoy1688 YAHushua is God. I don't decide by feelings, that was just an observation. The witness of scripture is overwhelming concerning the God head of YAH. There is the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of error. Tell me please your thoghts concerning the following verse: Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Messiah. (1Co 10:1-4)
@@yosefyahu4778 Thank you for your gracious and brotherly apology. You, and as you pointed out, Dr. Brown demonstrate how Christians are to behave; something I too often struggle to do. It's important to take our opponents seriously and to read all of what they say to us, to hear them out completely. By doing so, we can more fairly and accurately address their error by the standard of the Holy Scriptures. Let the offence of the Gospel be the only cause of offence to the unbeliever.
I usually dont comment on stuff like this but I watch them all the time. No offense to Dr.Tuggy but to say that John 1:1-2 and then 14 is NOT talking about Jesus is a HUGE stretch! I was shocked by that one!
I think when we take into account Deut 18:18-19, God makes a clear distinction between His word and Jesus, them not being the same thing. The word is God. God puts His word into the prophet (Jesus) to speak on His behalf.
One that always baffles me is when Revelation 1:8 describes Jesus Christ as "Alpha and Omega" and "the Almighty". If one denies the deity of Christ, they MUST discount the plainness of the verse and simplicity to understand it with convoluted explanations and interpretations.
@@ricardoguzman5014Revelation 1:8 is not Christ's originally. He's speaking it as an agent as is stated in Revelation 1:1. Christ isn't speaking of himself until John mentions him in verse 13...
@@joshjeggs 'In the beginning God/Elohim(Gods) created the heavens and the earth': God (Jehovah Jehovah Isaiah chapter 26 verse 4) Isaiah 45:11-22; Jesus/Word John chapter 1 verse 3, Hebrews chapter 1 verse 10: two men according to (Scripture) the law each has their own material body which is a soul and has a rhuach spirit within him John chapter 8 verses 17-18: Jesus, who had been the Word wearing a God-body Philippians chapter 2nd verse 6, created with his hands; God created Isaiah chapter 45 verses 11-12 with his hands John chapter 8 verses 17-18 one of the two witnesses about Jesus.
@King J-dub what do feeling have to do with this? No where in the old testament does it speak of a trinity or jesus being the son of God... the first 3 commandments say I am the LORD thy God. No other gods before me. No graven images or likenesses.
@@bournrich3353 The writer of Hebrews 1 is speaking of the Son who was. All things that were made according to the Fathers will and at His command He made through Jesus. As in all things its from the Father and through the Son. But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.” 10 He also says, “In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. 12 You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.” 13 To which of the angels did God ever say, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”
The answer to the question @ 2:32:30 - Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME. (Heb 10:5) Also Messiah says: "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I HAVE POWER TO LAY IT DOWN, and I HAVE POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN. This command I have received from My Father." (Joh 10:17-18) Question: How did Yahushuah raise His own body while being dead?
God raised Jesus from the dead by his Spirit. Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is One! Deut 6:4 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 1 Tim 2:5 Jesus said to her, "...'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'" John 20:17 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort. 2 Cor 1:3 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. Acts 3:13 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 1 Cor 11:3 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!" Luke 9:35 I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Chosen One of God. John 1:34 Because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead." Eph 1:4 Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED. Rom 10:9
@@yonasfesseha4900 Jesus referred to himself as “God’s Son” or “the Son of God.” (John 10:36; 11:4) Jesus never identified himself as Almighty God. Moreover, Jesus prayed to God. (Matthew 26:39) And while teaching his followers how to pray, Jesus said: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.”-Matthew 6:9
@@Azarable yeah he is the unique son of God. Because jesus never said I am God doesn't mean he isn't God. If I say I'm God doesn't make me a God just because I said it. And is it the only way to know if someone is God or not just by claiming his God? I mean who can have the attributes of God except God himself. Like jesus is the beginning and the end the alpha and omega the first and the last. He is the resurrection. He is the king of king and lord of lord. He is the good shepherd. He is the father of eternity. He is THY truth. He is Thy life. He created all things, he accepted worship, He existed before the world was. This are the attributes of God so who can have those attributes except God himself? So if jesus have those attributes what is he saying to us? Its obvious. Yeah jesus prayed, jesus called the father his God, jesus got hungry, jesus got tired, jesus wasnt all knowing, jesus had all this human nature. Why because he was truly man and truly God the incarnation called the hypostatic union. This all thing u see is based on his human nature. Why did jesus prayed because he became a man. when he became a man why should he stop talking to the father? Prayer is a way of communicating with God. Why did jesus call the father his God because he bacame a man. When he became a man he's not gonna be a hard athiest is he? Why should he stop his relationship with the father? Why should he stop talking to the father? In Jeremiah it clearly states that God is the God of all flesh. So when the son became a man he worships the father in the flesh.
@@yonasfesseha4900 Jesus (Yeshua) Christ made a clear distinction between him and his Father Does the identity of God have to be “a very profound mystery”? It did not seem so to Jesus. In his prayer to his Father, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ made a clear distinction between him and his Father when he said: “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ.” (John 17:3) If we believe Jesus and understand the plain teaching of the Bible, we will respect him as the divine Son of God that he is. We will also worship Jehovah as “the only true God.” Jesus (Yeshua) Christ said that “the true worshipers will worship the Father with . . . truth.” (John 4:23) That truth has been recorded in the Bible. (John 17:17) Does the Bible teach that the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit are three persons in one God? For one thing, the Bible does not mention the word “Trinity.” For another, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ never claimed to be equal to God (Yahweh). Instead, Jesus worshipped God (Yahweh). (Luke 22:41-44) A third line of evidence concerns Jesus’ relationship with his followers. Even after he was raised from the dead to the spirit realm, Jesus (Yeshua) called his followers “my brothers.” (Matthew 28:10) Were they brothers of Almighty God? Of course not! But through their faith in Christ-God’s preeminent Son-they too became sons of the one Father. (Galatians 3:26) Compare some additional scriptures with the following statement from the creed attributed to the Council of Nicaea.
Dr. Brown, thanks for making it clearer using Scripture verses like John 1:1,14 Col. 2:9 "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form", Jesus as God and not just a glorified person.
Why woud Jesus even desire to grasp equality with God, since according to you he is God? John 1: 1 is the MOST misunderstood verse in scriptures and so misleading. I doubt that without Jn 1 :1 there would even be such a doctrine of the Trinity.
I think the word “Trinity” is insufficient to describe the nature of God. Having said that, the Bible makes it clear that Jesus Christ IS God. The evidence is exhaustive. One cannot deny the deity of Jesus Christ without ignoring, denying, or twisting scripture
@@priscillajervey8345it would be convenient for you to not have John 1:1, wouldn't it? Fortunately for all of us, God said it so it's real. Just as Jesus saying "I Am" and calling Himself "THE ALPHA AND OMEGA" in Revelation. There's nothing else that can be said after that clear statement.
Another thing Tuggy misses when he says there was no controversy related to Christ’s Deity. I disagree. Read Matt. 26:62-65. I along with most exegetes consider the “Son of Man” to be a reference to Dan. 7:14-14 which was understood by His opponents as a claim to Deity. Since falsely claiming to be an exalted purely human messiah is not blasphemy, it’s evident they are charging Him with claiming, not this lesser Messianic claim, but by “Son of God” and referring to this passage with claiming the *greater* claim to be a Divine Messiah. Since they rejected His claims already, this was nothing short-in the eyes-to a blasphemous claim to Godhood. Hence they voted to condemn Him.
The authors of the first books in the Bible imagined that God looked like a mighty man Anthropomorphic They could imagine nothing more Later NT writers show God lIving in unapproachable light!
@Mark Metternich Gof did not say that God made man in his image Early scripture writers assumed that God looked like a mighty King Neigh even greater That’s all they could imagine!
Numbers 23 19 YHWH tells us He is not a man or son of man. He is invisible, He's a Spirit, He dwells in unapproachable light. No man has seen him. Reread Exodus, the people were terrified to even be in the presence of His glory! Day 6, possibly speaking to/and about Adam and Eve. Since they are the only image we know that looks like us. Creation account pattern, God states what He is going to do first and then how He does it after. Very easily could be talking to/about His creation Adam. It's the only time God speaks in plural form, even day 7, He rested, singular.
@jawnatutorow Numbers 23:19 Never said God is not a man. You should always read the scripture the right way. God is making a statement here, Never take a phrase and leave the rest out. Numbers 23:19 says, God is not a man that he should lie; Neither the son of man, that he should repent. Hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall not make it good?
@@Mathew-o5j2u Yes, if He becomes a man, He can experiance human death. But Gods divine nature cant die of course. As it says, the Word of God became flesh and suffered in the flesh, as the man Jesus Christ
This "debate" complete aside, there is one thing in those discussions never addressed, and that is that the bible differs from all pagan religions in the point of having one God, not more than the one God. Trinitarianism, polytheism, is of pagan roots and the bible proofs that over and over and that is never discussed.
Philippians 2: 5-7 (NKJV), "...Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men."
@Paul Mata Jesus referred to himself as “God’s Son” or “the Son of God.” (John 10:36; 11:4) Jesus never identified himself as Almighty God. Moreover, Jesus prayed to God. (Matthew 26:39) And while teaching his followers how to pray, Jesus said: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.”-Matthew 6:9.
Here, you dropped this: Philippians 2:9 (NASB) For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, God, as in Yahweh, highly exalted Jesus. Trinitarians always skip this verse! This is why Dr Tuggy said context is king!
God is the God of all flesh Jeremiah 32. So yes the son will always call the father God from the moment he entered in the flesh. But the father also calls the son God. Hebrews 1. Easy peezy
@@arold4928 Yes! When he could have been King and taken power immediately, as per his temptation in the wilderness. Instead Jesus took the form of a servant.
El Gibborim is used in Eze 32:21 for a group of men. Every one of them is an El Gibbor. It is factually inaccurate for Dr Brown to assert El Gibbor as an exclusive title for Yahweh.
@@JuanLopez-rl7ry Ele/Eli is spelled the same way as Eli in Psalm22:1 in Hebrew. The root word is El. Just look at Biblehub H410. So it is not false just same word, but can be used as singular, plural or adjective. May God the Father blessing, love and truth be with you, in Lord Jesus Christ Name, Amen!❤️
@@yeahwheey1Yeah your right only difference is one is singular and one is plural it's still the same basic word, like in english we have hat and hats, slightly different spelling still same basic word in meaning.
El gibbon is a ‘red herring ‘ The event being referred to in Isaiah 9 was the birth of a Davidic King and the words the Heavenly Council would use to greet his birth! Some Christians have readdressed these words to Christ! Incorrectly! But they keep doing it!
@@johnbrien6313 LOL! David was buried for 275 years when Isaiah prophesy 9:6. After Solomon the kingdom was devided. A Davidic king would ruled all Isreal not just Judah. 60 years later you're in captivity and ruled by 4 beast empires then Jerusalem was made desolate for 1878 years. Dan. 9:24-27 happened with the last week still to play out. Your Temple stones still remain thrown down crying out "a plase for trumpeting" if I recall correctly. JESUS is the only canidate being from the line of Jesse>David>Nathan on the seed of the woman side and the laws of inheritance on Joseph's line Jesse>David>Solomon. GOD is not a nan such as HE would lie. It all went down to the day and hour. HIS will be done. Some Christians still do? Isa. 9:1-6 is quoted as being fulfilled in Mat. 4:11-16. I'm happy your not associating yourself with Christianity, we'll consider you a mission field.
Michael Brown at 1:07:40 "I came jealous for a full revelation of the love of God, who demonstrates His great heart for us not by sending a glorified man to die for us, but by giving of His very self, His own Son, His own unique Son, coming into this world." This sentence makes no sense to me. Brown says the Son of God is God's very self (and not in the sense of someone's child metaphorically being their "heart"). Brown is saying God's Son is God Himself. Why on earth would God use the phrase "Son" rather than simply "Myself"? It makes God seem like He's playing with words to confuse us. Also, the way Brown speaks makes it seem like God sending Himself is a great thing, but God sending the man Jesus (who IS God's Son) is some kind of lesser act to be looked down upon. Overall great debate.
You need the Holy Spirit to make understand the scriptures brother. Dr Brown is full of the Holy Spirit and the other dude is not, He is just religious not spiritual.
God says son because God is not the flesh itself , he is the spirit manifest IN the flesh , as scripture says , God wants you to understand the difference between his form and his substance ... God is not a human being , God manifest in a human he created by making his word flesh , something we cant do , sure , but all in scripture . The Father , created the form , the form is a man , whats the most fitting title.... son , is it not? God is not the form , the man , he is the substance within it , who , created it , its all Gods , which is why it can be equal to God , known as God , its his visible image and express image of his person , his word , his name , i might have God in me now but im not all those things , there is a difference made between us as a man and Jesus as a man and of course the form and the substance . philippians 2 will help you understand this more , and so God humbled himself it says and took on THE FORM of a servant , Jesus made claims only God can make plenty of times , he revealed himself plainly , before abraham was i am , destroy this temple in three days i will raise it up , im alpha and omega , if ye believe not i am he ye shall die in your sins , all of this says who he is , the jews were not confused by his claims , they simply didnt believe him , they said they wanna kill him because "being a man thou makest thyself God" ...clearly they knew Jesus was telling them hes the Father , and when philip was confused , he made it plain , you see me , you seen the father , i and my father are one , from henceforth ye know him and have seen him . people can find fancy ways to explain all this , its plain and simple speech .
@@onlymyself7225 amen brother. helped me understand it more than most youtube preachers who desperately try to differentiate the father and son. meanwhile i always viewed it simply as u stated, the perfect manifestation of the lord god in the flesh. His word and essence made flesh. god did not leave heaven to dwell among us, his word was made into flesh and dwelt among us. His very own son whom he loves because in essence it is him, eternally coexistant with him, everything made through his word and spirit. that’s why jesus will send the spirit from the father as the mediator between man and god; the god man. He will send the spirit from the father. He will raise himself up. and he commands his spirit into his fathers hands. beautiful
Do I need to accept the BU understanding of God and His Annointed One Jesus who is not God and was created by God for the purpose of redemption? Will I forfeit my salvation? I cannot find an answer from a BU on this question and it is the most important question to ask. What must I do to be saved?
@@jesusisthechristthesonofgod I have and we are saved by faith through grace in Jesus Christ. Period. Nothing to add. Not. One. Single. Work. God the Son, The Word, Jesus Christ that we see in the Bible made it abundantly clear there is no access to the Father without the Son. Did they not ask Jesus what are the works of God? And His answer could not have been more clear or more loving - Believe in the one whom He has sent. The Jesus of BU is a created being, not God, so as a BU you really only want access to the father, the son is just a means. Yes he was the promised Messiah, yes he died for the sins of the world. But he has no power in himself. You do not worship the created. Worship belongs only to the father. So I ask the question will the Jesus of BU still save me if I viewed him and worshiped him as God my entire life even though he is not? Or will he condemn me for not worshiping only God the Father?
@@AGSunday I can't answer for him, but I've been wondering the same too. In most churches I've been too, people pray to Jesus. Very common practice. Yet, Jesus himself taught us to pray to the Father (when you pray... our Father who is in heaven) and he also said to not ask him. but to ask the Father in his name (Joh 16:23-24). Yet the majority of christains ignore the things Jesus taught and they pray to him. Some even go a step further, they pray to the Holy Spirit. Yet, there is not even one scripture that encourages that. Why does Jesus not tell his disciples to pray to him once he's gone to be with the Father ? If he is God then that would be totally legit. Yet he tells them not to do it, but to pray to the Father. Could the same thing count for worship as well? Jesus always seem to encourage worship to the Father, not to himself or the Spirit. Lately, if you pay attention in church (I'm going to a church where the trinity is believed), you will see christians do a lot of things that the bible tells them not to do. We come each Sunday to a church to listen to a pastor. The bible teaches something different.... that we should all participate and be part of the gathering, actively. We come to church to have worship or a worship service with a worship leader and sing a lot of songs. You don't see them doing that in the bible, it doesn't even mention worship leaders in the new testament at all. Yes, they sang, but they didn't have a worship and a serman part. Pastor's lead the church... yet in the new testament they don't do that at all. We put a lot of emphasis on the pastor, in the bible he doesn't have that emphasis at all. Go to a charismatic gathering and you will see them speak in tongues together or sing in tongues together. Yet the bible says something else. We do a lot of things contrary to the bible and scores of people are okay with it. Perhaps worshipping Jesus falls under that same category... we're doing something that we're not supposed to do at all. We sing tons of songs about Jesus and to Jesus, but did he ever ask us to do that? We pray to him, but did he ask us to do so? Did he not always point to his Father?
@@AGSunday I'm guessing by BU you are talking about BYU? Even if I'm wrong, the things you are saying sound in alignment with Mormon teachings or at least close enough that my response will remain the same. You don't need to understand the BU understanding of anything. You need to accept the Biblical teaching. I'm talking about Bibles that come from the Textus Receptus or the NA manuscript families (KJV, ESV, NIV, NASB, etc.). Jesus is not a created being - He is the Son of God but He is also God the Son. You said, "Will the Jesus of BU still save me if I..." and the answer is, "No. The Jesus of BU is not going to save you or anyone else because that Jesus doesn't exist." The only Jesus that can save anyone is the Jesus of the Bible who is the second person of the trinity. I would point you to the book of 1 John and the following passages: 2:23, 4:2-3, 4:6, 4:13, 4:15, 5:1-2, and 5:10-12. I would also point out the crucial verse of Galatians 1:8 - "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." So every time you have a religion started when an "angel" comes and gives some prophet (Joseph Smith, Mohammad, etc.) a revelation about how the Bible is not quite correct (aka they are preaching another gospel) that angel (actually a fallen angel) is CURSED - anathema - to the lake of fire. Satan loves it when people believe in the wrong Jesus because then they will join him in hell. But it's much easier for Satan to deceive people with a false Jesus than by trying to convince them to worship Satan. This is why Muslims, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses all have a false Jesus.
*Romans 10,8-13* 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: *9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.* 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile- *the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,* *13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”* *Joel 2,32* *And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord (YHWH) will be saved;* for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the Lord has said even among the survivors whom the Lord calls. *Acts 10,36* You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, *who is Lord of all.* *Acts 4,11-12* 11 Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’ 12 Salvation is found in no one else, *for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”* *1. Kor. 1,1-2* 1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes, 2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere *who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ-their Lord and ours:*
Dr. Brown, if falling to our knees to worship the son will please the father, like you say, I'm terribly confused by this if they are not separate people.
Dr. Brown or anyone who believes in the trinity......please help me and answer the following question. When we get to heaven will we see three persons...will we see both God, the son and the Holy spirit or just one being on one thrown? Thank you.
@Tyler B #2 So there is a God race? When you're in the room, there will be god the father in one corner, god the son in another and god the holy spirit in a third. And we're mean to think Trinitarians are monotheistic. Yeah, right.
@@richardmorgan3938 My point is that Jesus and the father and the holyspirit are one because they are of the same being. I guess i thought you meant that they are seperate but equal.
@@shio_sakaki_the_legend392 What do you mean "they are of the same being"? I don't find that teaching anywhere in scripture. No, I think they are separate and unequal: There is one God, the Father. He is eternal. Jesus is the Son of God, and didn't exist until he was born, although he was part of God's plan from the beginning. He is not eternal, but has immortality now. He is still termed a man (1 Tim. 2:5) in his role as mediator. The Holy Spirit is the power of God. It's very simple.
At 32:35 Brown quotes John 17:5, while ignoring both John 17:3 - where Jesus calls the Father "...the only true God" - and John 17:22, where Jesus says: "The glory that you have given me *I have given to them,* that they may be one even as we are one.." So by his logic, we're all God now 🙄
This debate is easy to win. Just ask Michael if God has a God above him. Which Michael will have to say no, there is no God above God. He will try to sly his way with working Jesus as God, but all you have to point out is Jesus calls the Father greater than himself, also the Father is his God, and lastly Jesus is always the second to the Father in heaven and on earth, yet God is not second to any. Case closed.
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Jesus humbled himself and took on flesh, he became a humble servant, and as a humble servant why wouldn't he obey his Father who is also God, when the bible tells us to honour thy Father and thy Mother, why wouldn't Jesus do so also? When he came, he came to not abolish the law, but to fulfill the law, in which he did in part by honouring his Father and Mother. God is God of all flesh, and when Jesus who is God became flesh and dwelt among us, (1Timothy 3:16 God was manifest in the flesh) doesn't negate that fact.
@@bradbradbury8561 the form of God means his nature. How can an infinite being become less-than infinite? How can an All-powerful being become a powerless human that Depends on another power to achieve miracles? Why is god invisible? He isn’t! It’s just that we can’t even begin to fathom his form/nature. And these verses put an Infinite being into a tiny box. Jesus has deceived all believers.
@@TheBookOfLife7 An infinite being can do anything an infinite being wants to do, thus the term infinite. The minute you say he can't they become less than infinite. Thus when it say in Philippians 2:8 He humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross, it is totally possible to humble himself, if he couldn't humble himself he would become less than infinite. This it only possible if you are an infinite being, and for anyone to say it couldn't happen, doesn't believe in his infinity. When his body died, his spirit didn't die, it went back to the Father. "Into thine hands I commit my spirit" Only the body died, not the spirit. Christ is much more that a body in which he took on flesh and dwelt among us. If an all powerful being can be limited then he ceases the be all powerful. And as Christ has said when speaking of himself and of his bodily resurrection said "I will raise it up on the third day" ~ John 2:19 Only an all powerful infinite being could do such a thing, of which Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour is.
Jesus says this in John 11:25-26 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believe in me shall never die. Believest thou this? "Whosoever liveth and believe in me shall never die" ~Jesus Now if a mere mortal, a human being who believes in Christ shall never die, as Jesus says in verse 26, how much more possible is it for Christ who is God himself to do so also being that he's God? Now that is an infinite all powerful God if ever there was one, not only to raise himself up after the death of his body, but to raise ours up also. Only God could do such a thing, of which Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour is, amen.
@@bradbradbury8561 John 5:26 “The Father has life in himself, and HE has GRANTED that same life-giving power to his Son.” Matthew 28:18-20 “Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been Given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” Revelation 13:4-8 “People worshipped the dragon because HE had GIVEN authority to the beast, and they also worshipped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it? The beast was GIVEN a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise it’s AUTHORITY for forty-two months (3.5 years) It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. It was Given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was GIVEN Authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast (Matthew 24:14 & Matthew 28:19) - all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.” Daniel 7:8 “while I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.” Daniel 7:25 “He will speak against the Most High and oppress his people and try the change the set times AND the Laws. The Holy People will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time. (Revelation 13:5) So do you actually know who Jesus is? Because I’m sure you do now.
Why is it that anyone who isn't a Trinitarian is automatically labelled as a "deceiver" and "doesn't have the spirit of Jesus" in them and "lacks the holy ghost". Can't we just be intellectual?
We can’t just have intellectual acknowledgement on this matter because we are to “know God”, “grow in the knowledge of Christ”, have our minds renewed, our hearts changed via the Holy Spirit from hearts of stone to fleshy hearts having God’s Law written on them. James 2:19 explicitly tells us that even the demons KNOW God and shudder. What does that mean? Well that means having just bare facts and a knowledge of God and who He is is completely different than TRULY KNOWING, TRUSTING, having saving faith in God. So that when or once we are completely regenerated we should bear fruit that reflects who we are now on the inside from this true knowledge of God. Doctrine by itself is no proof of saving faith. They(demons, Antichrists) know the truth about God, who Christ is, and who the Spirit is, but they hate it. Thus zero fruit is produced by these sorts in fact it’s the absence of these things that show one’s standing with God.
@@Solomonsaysno this is a lengthy reply but with little weight to it. This is what I mean by intellectual. When we just shout a verse and have our own opinion on its meaning, we lose track instantly. What I dislike most is the dismissal of unitarians as people who lack some sort of spirit. If one is to accept a spirit or Jesus as Lord and then claim they believe now before they did that as a prerequisite then we find ourselves in a self defeating argument. Heck I can guarantee many Christians are reading this and assuimg I'm passed by Satan to say this or lack some holy ghost. We need to discuss and be intellectual.
@@tymon1928Jesus was never worshipped. You will find not a single doxology in the New Testament addressed to Jesus. You will notice that Paul only praises God the Father, never Jesus. “Worthy are you, O lamb” in Revelation does not count because it is not worship. Even in that book only the One seated on the throne is adored and worshiped as God. He alone says “I am the Alpha and Omega”. Read Rev 22 very carefully. It clearly isn’t Jesus speaking those words.
Intellectual honesty is important in debates if people desire to advance arguments. Sometimes is not clear if the speaker is even listening or understanding the opposite views to refute them.
Yeshua already sitting at the right hand of GOD, says, "MY GOD" - as 4 times in Revelation 3: 12. Rev 3: 12 The one who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of MY GOD and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the Name of MY GOD, and the name of the city of MY GOD God the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from MY GOD, and My new Name.
correct , the Father is the God of the flesh and blood he himself created and wants you to understand this , give glory to the substance , not the form , the spirit , not the flesh , the being , not his manifestation , the creator , not his creation ...however , the form is directly made from Gods very word and has the fulness of the Godhead within him , the only thing Jesus ever claimed to be in him is the Father , God himself , who is holy , who is a spirit , he is then of course a holy spirit and as philippians says in THE FORM of God , the form of something is not the substance of it .......................though its Gods form and not something on its own , which is why Jesus can be worshipped and has all the same titles the Father has etc. Jesus made it plain "i come in my Fathers name" . I don't know what the issue is here? MY GOD , yes , the flesh and blood is not God ... and? thats all Gods showing you by example , Jesus did everything for us by example , God humbled himself , you can fight every scripture you want , Jesus was very clear , if ye believe not I AM HE , ye shall die in your sins , i would advise you to learn what scripture hes quoting and who the IAM and HE that Jesus refers to is , because if you dont believe Jesus to be that being , which isaiah 9:6 knows he is , you're dying in your sins , because anything else is idolatry or denial of Jesus , who is the I AM HE? ...........................................it's the Father , this is why Jesus said before abraham was i AM , because Jesus is the word of God made flesh , Gods word was before abraham , and the bible says the word IS God , God manifest in the flesh timothy says ... better start studying the bible and stop listening to these wolves , they are leading you all to hell like Jesus said they would , and if this doctrines wrong , i bet you a lot of their other doctrine is wrong , stay away from these youtubers and churches , time to study the word for real and find out the truth , your souls on the line .
@onlymyself7225 I'm having alot of trouble reconciling between these two doctrines, please pray for me. I thought the "I AM" statement from Jesus was the end all be all. However, the "I AM" from exodus in the Greek septuagint is different from the "I AM" Jesus uses in John. Exodus is "ho Theos" (I believe) and in John it is "ego eimi".
@@aka.yehoshua ho theos is the greek translation for “the God” literally translated ho-the theos-god. in exodus God says to moses I am That I am, which does not mention the word ho or theos.
Jesus said "I AM the Almighty". He also said that he was on earth and in heaven at the same time. Revelation 1:8 King James Version 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. John 3:13 King James Version 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Dr.Dale Tuggy: "Some scholars say" Dr.Michael Brown: "The Scriptures say" He nailed it! Thank you,Dr.Brown I really admire your body of work! YESHUA- "The Great I AM
Joseph Smith and many other false prophets also say, "the scriptures say." You are simplifying Dr. Tuggy's postion to try and knock it down. That's a strawman argument. Dr. Tuggy referred both to scholars AND scripture as he gives a better overall context. Which is necessary part of being a good Bible student.
AMEN! Keep spreading the Truth and the Good News! Isaiah 9:6 “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” This verse and prophecy clearly speaks to The Trinity and our Saviour JESUS CHRIST! ✝️✡️
Brown mentions the old "I Am" canard. What he doesn't tell you is that just about everyone in the bible says "I am" at one point or another. The whole "I am" argument is ridiculous. The explanation is too long for this format.
@@ibrahimalharbi3358 God created everything by himself and he has the power to do anything...so you telling me that God cannot live among men as a man?
@@hdk8727 Man is made in God's image. The relationship between a father and son on earth can be used as an image to infer back to the relationship between Jesus and his father.
@@ibrahimalharbi3358 Not a man that he should lie. Everyone forgets to finish the sentence. And as we see of the Messiah, there was no deceit in his mouth. ~Isaiah 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. "He had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth."
1 Timothy 2:5 [5] For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus, But for God it's good and acceptable Man jesus to be mediator🤷🏻♀️
If what you said is correct, that the mediator must be both God and man, why did Paul say specifically "the man"? Why did he not say "the God and man, Jeus Christ"? Surely he would have? Pretty important?
@glenfrazer753 I will ask you this! How is it possible that any human being is capable of not sinning ever not once in thought or in deed! Think about that for a moment! And to add another witness , read this: John 20:28 (WEBM) Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!"
@@yosefyahu4778 To answer your, question, he did not sin because of his perfect obedience. Difficult to imagine, I agree, but it's what God first sought from the first man, Adam. But he failed. The second Adam did not fail. A human who fulfilled the law by not sinning. The whole basis of the atonement is the law being fulfilled by a man. Now back to the question I asked you please. Why did Paul sepcifically say the mediator was "the man", and not help us understand he was both God and man by saying it during this key discussion?
Alright 38 minutes in, and you HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that dales intro was a lot of "cannot be, because" rather than simply using scripture to refute the trinitarian position. He spoke more than he used Gods word. And Browns opening, literally all he's USING is scripture to state his case. Not to say Dale didn't use really good points. He did. But we didn't come here to hear dales words. But Gods. You have to acknowledge these things.
A child without any type of Trinity contamination can explain and figure out that Jesus is not God, and that God is not Jesus; and that neither are each other. One does not need a PhD to figure it out. One just needs a clean heart and spirit.
*John chapter 1* 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and *the Word was God.* 2 The same was in the beginning with God. *3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.* [...] 10 He was in the world, and *the world was made by him,* and the world knew him not. *11 He came unto his own,* and his own received him not. [...] *14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,* (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. *Isaiah 9,6* For to us *a child is born,* to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, *and his name shall be called* Wonderful Counselor, *Mighty God,* Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. *Acts 7,59* And they stoned Stephen, *calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.* *2. Peter 1,1* Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of *our God and Savior Jesus Christ* have received a faith as precious as ours: *Phil 2,5-7* 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in *Christ Jesus,* *6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,* 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. *John 20,28-29* 28 Thomas answered him, *“My Lord and my God!”* 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” *1. John 5,20* We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being *in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.* *Colossians 2,9* For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, *1. Tim 3,16* And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: *God was manifest in the flesh,* justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. *Hebrew 1,8-12* *8 But unto the Son he (God, the Father) saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.* 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; *therefore God,* even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. *10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:* *11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;* *12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.* Not clear enough for you?
2:33:25_ Dr.Brown got nailed good and proper by this question..Scripture clearly states the exact opposite to Browns claim the 'son' didn't die..consequently Browns response is lame/vague skirting the actual question and he doesn't project his usual raised voice, but is rather sheepish.
Scripture is clear that Jesus is the Word of God, and the Word is God, and the Word became flesh, so He became the man Jesus Christ, and Jesus suffered in the flesh. So the person of the Son did die on the cross in His human nature. But not in His eternal, infinite, immortal divine nature.
@@r0ky_M So you make argumwnts about what scripture teaches, and when you get corrected, this is the way you react? And pls, prove that Jesus was a fairy-tale. Always funny to see a Jesus-mythicist embarrassing himself
@@r0ky_M Obviously you dont understand the difference between a claim and a proof... Are you saying God could not do miracles, even if He exists? Or are you claiming you can prove God doesnt exist?
Somebody please ask a trinitarian if they really believe they would have come up with the trinity on their own without somebody teaching them about it first.
Isaiah For unto us a child is born unto us a son is given and the government shall be up on his shoulders and his name shall be called wonderful counselor, the mighty God the everlasting father, the prince of peace. Amen Now tell me who Jesus is again.
Not God. Stop taking the lazy route of only employing the English of an original ancient Hebrew composition. It will get you nowhere with God. The epithets that are ascribed to the child born are not indicative of divinity. Also, is the Jesus “the father” now? Hm…Curious. It’s almost like you will pick and choose which epithets to take literally and which to spiritualize, since you apply this to Jesus. Was Jesus ever called “the father”? Nope. Why? Because he is called a spiritual brother in Hebrews and is implied to be so in Paul’s letter to the Galatians. You are out of your depth. Heed James’ warning: not everyone should become a teacher.
Both sides are wrong.. The concept is not hard to understand really.. Jesus is Gods son .. just as the demons said in Matthew and Mark. Jesus is made like his father just as an earthly son is like his father as stated in John 5:18... Jesus is Lord meaning master while the father is God ruler and master of all even Jesus .. Mark 15:34 Jesus calls God his God... we need to start looking at it the same we understand a father and son. Jesus was exalted by his father .. he died in our place . That is honorable to His father and it mimics God's character.. trinity doctrine is wrong. God, the father and son are different beings.. unitarian doctrine is wrong, Jesus is more than a man he is the son of God. Mark 5:17
Jesus is God and He became flesh (John 1,1-14). As He became flesh, the Father became His God (Ps 22,10). Because all flesh is submitted to God (Jer 32,27).
Dr Tuggy has a very strange view of Jesus' Sonship, and an actually blasphemous one-- just a man who somehow "volunteered" to be God's "only" Son. How on earth can ANY MERE MAN take on the Sonship by himself?! Strange. (BTW Hebrews says that no one takes on the honor of being the High Priest on himself. It must be given by the Father).
Volunteer is wrong. God sent his own Son, but God being his own Son of himself and 2 other people who are also God (meaning they share the same status as him yet he is their Son) is not strange?
@@okhuibutala1640 Jesus is God and He became flesh (John 1,1-14). As He became flesh, the Father became His God (Ps 22,10). Because all flesh is submitted to God (Jer 32,27).
The two witnesses are not who we thought they were. Must watch about the Two witnesses and revelation. Check this out: th-cam.com/video/qRJ-ncor52A/w-d-xo.html
Jesus already came..the "faithful and true witness" and he showed us all who his God and Father is. All these deceiving lying hypocrites like Michael Brown and James White trying to say the trinity is the truth do not know the Father and they can not hear the words of Jesus
@Abraham Mani how many times do you have to post this same thing on comments?? Normally, posting your comment once is the accepted mode. Please don't flood the thread like this again.
Does the doctrine of the Trinity really propose that there are three that are the one God, or does it propose that the one God exists in a three-fold manner. I see a difference.
Both and also he is considered to be both God and man at the same time...a Decision made at the council of Chalcedon 451 AD. The God- man theory. You should see a difference and a very silly, absurd one at that. No one can truly explain the Trinity or even truly comprehend it, that is why it is considered a mystery even within it own camp and most ardent defenders. The argument had NEVER been layed to rest even after 2,000 yrs. Wonder Why???
why i see always the debaters that defend CHRIST, full of the SPIRIT speaking so fluid to the point that the debate even looks unfair...is like an adult debating a little child....
Because before accepting trinity, one must throw rationality out of the window and accept emotional feelings. I agree with you. I see that too. They are too emotional rather than talking in a scholarly way. But it's not their fault. Actually they can't rationally about trinity which is itself irrational concept. Even people gets hyped when they are drunk or on drugs. Christian debaters are like them.
@@One-rr8um I'm concerned that you may have exalted your human rationality above God and his Word. He is not to be made a slave to your understanding, but your understanding is to be made subject to Him.
God is not irrational and he's very plain about his own limitations and attributes throughout the Bible. At some point if he was 3 people then he would have brought it up.
М. Brown's arguments are very weak. Moses is called God in Ex. 7:1. Is Moses God? Hebrews 1:8 quotes Psalms where the king is called God. How many Gods are there for Dr. Brown?
@@drcdeane The word "like" doesn't exist in the text. It was added. Gen. 1:26 doesn't mention Jesus. Jesus never said: I took place in the creation of the world.
@@milkshake5_-.m that king in Psalm 45 is Jesus. That's why Paul applies Psalm 45 to Jesus in Hebrews 1:8-9. Where we see the Father calling Jesus God.
Is Moses actually called God, or are you referring to his interaction with Pharaoh where God told Moses....You SHALL be as God to Pharaoh and Aaron shall be to you a prophet?
ALL Dr Brown has to do to destroy his non argument is refer him to Jesus' prayer John chapter 17. 5....FATHER glorify me thine OWN self WITH the SAME glory which I had with thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
Dr. Tuggy is very confused,whenever he is cornered he resorts to saying it's Dr. Brown who is misinterpreting the verse. Dr. Brown had the spirit of God with him,on the other hand, Dr. Tuggy is struggling to answer very simple questions. I think Brown explained everything correctly. Tuggy on the hand, is teaching a false gospel.
The problem with Tuggy's argument is that he likes to argue from a philosophical view. Dr. Brown argued strictly from a Biblical perspective. You will not win a theological debate with philosophy- Colossians: 2:8 "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ."
difference is,brown is commiting something called gish gallop,meanwhile tuggy is quoting all the verses essentially needed for this topic @@NephilimSlayer801
John's Gospel makes it clear that the Logos never had a beginning. "In the beginning was the word.....The imperfect, indicative, active third person singular to be verb "Was, ἦν" uncontrovertibly is a continuous past tense. The prepositional phrase "In beginning Ἐν ἀρχῇ is locative. What John is saying, according words and the grammar, is that the word already was there prior to anything which had a beginning. Also note what John says in verse 3 of the same chapter, "All things came into existence through him and without him not one thing has come into existence, which has come into existence." Dr. Tuggy is saying that God the Father must have created the word, Jesus, but this is impossible because as VS one states that the word never had a beginning and that EVERYTHING which exist was created through him. If everything was created through him, could he have had a part in creating himself? Paul states the same (Col. 1) only he uses the definite article "All things" to make it crystal clear. He also borrowed this phrase from earlier Greek writings. The readers knew absolutely what John and Paul was saying. You can say you don't believe it, but you can't say that is not what it says.
@@priscillajervey1947 Well it is all over the place in the scriptures. But you all are the last days christians who spend a lot of time in the world and in worldliness but wants to understand this Triune nature of the living God. Father,Son, Holy Spirit. The word and eyewitness was given to our blessed appossles who had gone before us. And that's why when we study the bible we search through the their report of what they saw and what was given to them. Do here John he said they're three that bares record in heaven. And again he said in the beginning was the word. And the word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. He that was with God is his blessed SON. Thou shalt not suffer thy Holy One to see curruption. Father glorify me with the glory I had with you from the beginning. Oneness philosophy debunked. That why I quote only what my big brothers wrote because they were eye witness to these accounts. These modern socalled prophet, pastor, evangelist, appossles, in modern times will stand before the Lord for blasphemy and unbelief.
I found this debate to be very informative. I have accepted Jesus Christ as my messiah and I love him so much. He is my way to God and to his Kingdom. I think The Unitarian approach is aligned with the Torah and the Ten Commandments. I am humbled and confused and looking forward to eternal learning and education about God. I do feel confident that God is one. Maybe God’s word became flesh and that is also aligned with genesis chapter one. God says and it is created. Thank you so much for a very good meaningful debate. ❤❤❤😊😊😊🎉🎉🎉
With respect to ”maybe God’s Word became flesh” doesn’t sound like you’re a believer in Christ because that’s who Christ is. So you’d have to believe it is so, not maybe so. Once you determine that, then you have to concede to Him being God, because the place where scripture says “The Word became flesh” also says “The Word was God”.
Dale Tuggy argues that Jesus is not divine because Colossians 1, John 1:3 and 1 Corinthians 8:6 say all things were made ‘through’ Jesus and Dale Tuggy says that word means Jesus was an instrument and that the Father is the ultimate source and therefore the real God. The Greek word in Colossians 1, John 1:3 and 1 Corinthians 8:6 which is translated as ‘through’ is: διά This argument by Dale Tuggy can easily be shown to be nonsense and false by Romans 11:36 where it says all things are made ‘through’ (same Greek word: διά ) God the Father/Yahweh. Therefore, according to Dale Tuggy, if he’s going to be consistent, the use of that exact same word ‘through/διά’ in Romans 11:36 must mean God the Father was an instrument used by someone else. This is nonsense. The Greek word ‘διά’ is also sometimes translated simply as ‘by’. This argument by Dale Tuggy either shows his ignorance of this, or he’s being dishonest by concealing this information which would destroy his argument. Neither of those is good.
Modalist Protestant heretics like Dr. Brown are the reason why Tuggy exists. This clown embarrasses himself not knowing who are the persons who are the subjects in the verses he quoted & constantly blasphemes the Father YHVH. Despicable...
Both Brown & Tuggy are heretics, so stop being 1 sided. How about attacking Protestant Brown on his Modalist heresy & blasphemy against the Father or ignorance of Scripture?
Dr. Brown CLEARLY won the debate..... But honestly, are any of us truly learning?? Are we actually taking notes and CHOOSING Wich side is correct, not bc it sounds good, but bbc is true..... ??? I clearly choose our God ! The Holy Trinity! Thank De. BROWN, for helping me and my family understand the beautiful trinity, and it's teachings tru out the WHOLE Bible! 💕
This really doesn’t have to be that difficult at all, let’s try and keep things real simple. 1st /and foremost..... who did God the FATHER sayJessus Christ was..... MATT 3 vr 17... “This is my beloved (SON )in whom I am well - pleased.” Who did Jesus the Christ say he was ... Jhon 10 vr 36.... “Because I said, I am the(SON )of God.” Who did the demons say Jesus the Christ was.... MATT 8 vr 29.... “What business do we have with each other, (SON )of God” Who did Simon Peter believe Jesus the Christ was .... MATT 16 vr 16 -17... Simon Peter answered and said “ you are the Christ, the (SON )of the living God” 2nd/ who did Jesus the Christ say his Father was ..... Jhon 17 vr 1 -3..... “ this is eternal life that they may know you, the only (TRUE )God (AND )Jesus Christ, whom (YOU )have sent” So we see the Son (OF) God,confess his Father is the only (TRUE )God so if Jesus is (THE)God in the flesh, and his father is the only( TRUE) God ..... what God dose this make Jesus the Christ ? Now I think so far this has been pretty simple and quite biblical in presentation. Now the only answer I have ever had from a trinitarian on the above question in Jhon 17 vr 3, is to ASSUME and I say ASSUME ..... that this was Jesus the Christ, praying to the father with in his human nature’,and not his God one, to set the example of how we are to pray to the true God..But this Im afraid isn’t good enough by simply trying to concoct an un biblical two natured Christ. No such thing is ever taught in scripture without digging and twisting other bible verses. The truth is, a lie has to be created to answer this question, 3rd/ lets say for arguments sake, Jesus the Christ did have a God nature and a human nature (ie) (the God man) ...when Christ was crucified and died, his human nature perished along with him....... 1 pet 3 vr 18.... Jesus the Christ was made alive in the spirit......so now must be fully GOD, so he was no longer dependant on his father in an earthly sense of Jhon 17 vr 3...... but yet he still spoke of his father as his God in Jhon 20 vr 17, after his resurrection ???? Also Jhon the disciple ,who Christ, loved much, a very spiritual man as can be seen in his gospel writings, fully understood this whilst writing the book of revelation .... Jesus the Christ now standing at the fathers right hand ACTS 7 :55 ... still has a father and God in heaven REV 1 vr 6......so, so much for Christ only acknowledging the only true God whilst he was in human flesh !!!! The bible is very clear... crystal clear, that the son ( Jesus the Christ) has a father ( THE GOD) and ( THE GOD ) is the sons (GOD)....so to make The son equal with the father, “co equal and always existed “..... is to Have Two Gods co exist along side each other.... which categorically makes one of this belief a polytheist....... there is absolutely no way around this without conjuring up another lie, and teaching they are both one and the same person in a triune God head, an ASSUMPTION That has not and cannot be proven through scripture, it’s a preconceived idea that man has moulded into the bible, and force fitted it with twisted scripture!!!...... there’s one GOD And one. Son 1 CORINTHIANS 8 :6...... It’s that simple ... dose it really need all theses apologists trying to prove or disprove something that clearly proves itself through the fathers and Christ’s very own words ....????
Ben Watkins John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Jesus is both the son of God the Father and always existed inside the Godhead with the Holy Spirit. He’s also a separate person. Just like a father and son relationship on earth, but they are God.. why Jesus is the only Begotten Son and we are all adopted in. The Father spoke himself into existence in a form and through that physical form he used his word to produce all things. At the end God will have created a kingdom for his self where he is rightfully worshiped as God and Savior and Lord by a people who were like him with the knowledge of good and evil yet choose to seek holiness. 🙏🏻
*Tveezy Stuntz* Thank you for your reply. But in a respectful manner, I don’t feel that your response,in any way answers my above presentation. 1/ jhon 17:3. Jesus whilst in his flesh ,prays to the “ONLY TRUE GOD” ..... Jhon 20:17. A resurrected Jesus, confesses he has a “GOD and FATHER”he is ascending to. Rev1:6, Tells us the son has a “FATHER and GOD in heaven”. Now keeping things simple for the moment.... In the light of the above biblical verses. Christ has both a GOD and FATHER in the heavens. So taking the scripture as it presents itself, Christ clearly had a FATHER and GOD whilst on earth..... he clearly had a FATHER and GOD he was ascending to ... and it clearly says he is in heaven with his FATHER and GOD. How can anyone possibly miss interpret the meaning of the above verses.?? Dose Christ have a FATHER and GOD, or not ?????? So to except your presentation of jhon 1 vr 1....would mean one has to except The son and THE God to be same beings, this totally contradicts The biblical presentation of THE GOD and His SON in the above verses. If they are the same beings......this would mean .................................... The SON cannot really be the FATHER.... and the FATHER cannot really be the SON .... unless there is role play involved, ( ie) GOD plays the role of a son which would mean the SON dose not literally exist.... and so the FATHER can’t literally exist...... which leads one to assume only GOD exists with no literal SON and the son has no literal FATHER ..... and this I’m afraid leads one into the warning of 1 jhon 4:3...... one has to confess CHRIST came in the flesh, not YEHOVAH , come in the flesh...... also .... it denies the true father and son relationship by diminishing it to a role play 1 jhon 2 : 22 :23.
Ben Watkins only respect over here too brother! Can you tell me interpretation of John 1:1 and John 1:14? If we agree Jesus is the Word and the Word came in flesh and the Word was God, how does that fit into your understanding of the Word and God being completely separate? I believe my understanding is the correct understanding simply because it makes sense in light of all verses not just some of them.
*Tveezy Stuntz* To my understanding the “word “and “THE GOD “are not of equal status in Jhon’s writings....... my reasons for this are as follows...... “In the beginning was the word = logos, and the word = logos .... was toward THE God = ho Theo’s ....and god = Theo’s was the word = logos. Theo’s just means “god”..... it’s a Greek word for “god” .... God is a title and only has a meaning to an individual when the individual attaches a person or meaning to it ...... so in the context of Jhon’s writings..... we understand he is a devout Jew and worships the Hebrew God YEHOVAH ... so in his Greek writing he would express his YEHOVAH .... by penning THE GOD = ho Theo’s.. by inserting the definite article “THE” before Theo’s..... which was freely at his disposal in Greek grammar. Now when Jhon pens “and the word was god “ .... he drops the definite article “THE” and just pens Theo’s instead of ho Theo’s ... “god instead of THE GOD”.... and this has a direct meaning to his interpretation of the word god = Theo’s.... without his definite article we are back to just” god” ... and as we have seen god = Theo’s can mean anything ,unless the one writing expresses different.... and jhon here is clearly expressing the difference between ho Theo’s and just Theo’s.....THE GOD and god..... so when jhon says “ and god was the word” he is not saying”THE GOD “was the word.. Or that is what he would of written. So this leads us to what did Jhon mean when he penned “god was the word,” without the definite article “THE”.. this can rightly be expressed as “a god”..or the word was divine by nature ...seeing the “word” is only a ( thing or it) it needs the writer to express what he actually means by the word= logos ..... Jhon could be referring to the word as the son in REV 19 :13.... (but remembering with out the definite article the son is not” THE GOD”) but could be ( a begotten god ) jhon 1 vr 18.... and also remembering the expression of the “ word “ was towards THE God is in every way expressing the word is separate to THE GOD, and this word becomes flesh in jhon 1 vr 14. Also as The “ word “ = logos can mean Gods “thought or plan”...this dose not mean the “ word “ logos is THE GOD himself ... but it can mean it’s THE GODS divine plan and thought in his mind ... and THE GODs plan or thought Was to come into existence at Jhon 1vr 14.... meaning that his plan the logos was always towards him in the future ... rather like the expression “ the lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world “ REV 13 vr 8...... we know Christ was not slain before the foundation of the world, but we understand it was a thought / plan in Gods mind that was to happen at a future date ... ( ie) it was always toward him..... And to finish in jhon 1 vr 2.... it says and (he) which could be a begotten god Theo’s ....was towardsTHE GOD = ho Theo’s ... once again Jhon draws the distinction between god =Theo’s and THE GOD = ho Theo’s. Or if we are to interpret the word = logos as a thought or plan.... in vr 2 Autos =( HE ) can rightly be rendered Autos = ( IT) the word/ thought / plan etc...towards THE GOD. Either way ,the word Theo’s is never equal to ho Theo’s in this context.
One of the audience there asked a question to Micheal Brown (@ 2.02.02). The question was how come Jesus did not know the hour if he was God (God the Son). Brown suddenly sticked on man Jesus and said man Jesus did not know the hour. But in the verse Jesus said neither angels nor the "son" can know the hour. For that question, Brown chooses to focus on "man Jesus", but same Dr. Brown denied Son Jesus's death because he believes "Son" is divine God and cannot die, so "man Jesus" could die only. But to the new question he focused on "man Jesus", instead of "son" (according to him divine part of Jesus), however in the verse it is said, "son can not know the hour". In fact, Brown's theology is crushed because he says that "son Jesus" cannot die since" son Jesus" is God part of Jesus, on the other hand, Brown says "son Jesus" cannot know the hour because he is a man.... Confusion...
@Saint Belligerant Yes, it is sad. I was doing the same thing, ignoring the other thing since I was told and taught trinitarian idea. But there was always questions since it was not all things summed up. So I decided to study all the written words in the bible as it is.
@@achsevin6505 I guess the one who should answer to your question is not us, but trinitarian friends. To us Jesus never lied, he always said he is servant son of God, Messiah. He was one man who has been given authority and a mission by God. He said his a God, he said he has a God is the same God of us, both his and our Heavenly Father (John 17:3, 20:17).
@@achsevin6505 Nowhere. I am not the one who claim that Jesus is God. He is god as it is written in Psalms 82:6, sons of God called as "el" in hebrew "a god" in English, but not in literal meaning. I am not a trinitarian. I reject the idea of God's being more than one person or personality. I am not amodelist. I am not a Jehovah Witness. I am not a Mormon, I am not a Muslim. I just a Christian which means follower of Christ, I believe what he said, there is one only true God that is only Heavenly Father (John 17:3), and this Heavenly Father who is only treu God is both his and our God (John 20:17). I am a unitarian christian.
Debates are painful to watch sometimes. I think it would be cool to hear a debater say something like, "I understand how you could see that..." or "that makes sense but this is why I disagree..." Instead, it seems like no one will give an inch of logic to the other side.
What bothers me is, why did God allow these few passages that caused this doctrine to become so divisive? Why wasn't the Nician council discussed ? Imagine the winners murdering the losers! That speaks volumes of the evil of the winer's.
@@johngravinese2521 in those days there were some issues going on, people got kill just because they thought different. Just by saying "ok , but what about " dead.
@@johngravinese2521 hi there, just out of curiosity did you ever research the truth about what led up to the council in Nicea and what took place, who the members were ,etc? Reason I ask is because I always hear people speak about this council but rarely does it seem they know anything about it. Its just proposed that the Trinity was made up etc. I used to believe this before I actually researched in depth. Just curious if you did as well.
@@johngravinese2521 Maybe God wanted us to look closer at this. His reasoning is beyond what we can comprehend. Ask God why these things happen, he may or may not answer. It is for us to seek his guidance, to be closer to God.
j w The WORD YHWH Gen. 15:1,4 The HOLY ONE of Israel. Isa. 55:5 Yeshuah Ps 62:1 Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty GOD, the Prince of Peace. Isa. 9:6 The SON of GOD. Dan.3:25 Arm of the LORD. Isa. 53:1, Ezek. 4:7 YHWH in it's pictoghaph form "nail behold hand behold" Born out of Bethlehem a Ruler from old from everlasting. Mic. 5:2
@@The-Beyonder REALLY? i NEED TO READ THE BIBLE, HUH? what about all the great Rabbinic scholars of past and present who are more familiar with the Bible than you or i ever will be.. specifically, the OT. Have you ever read or heard of the Rambam( Machmonides)? how about the Ramban ( Nachmonides)? how about The Bal Shem Tov? How about Ibz Ezra? How about Rashi? How about Rabbi Isaac Luria? Hummm?? Have you watched and listened to Rabbi Tovia Singer , Rabbi Michael Skobac, Rabbi Manis Friedman VIDEOS?? Hummm?? eVERYONE ONE OF THESE PEOPLE REJECT JC AS MESSIAH... Don't lecture me when you're so deficient in Hebraic knowledge...You CAN'T EVEN READ HEBREW.. So, here's to you my friend from outer space... JESUS IS THE FALSE MESSIAH.
@@nasdaqua Here I was thinking this was gonna be a good reply with all that text, but throughout that entire reply all you did was appeal to authority lol. Your entire argument is invalidated, FAIL. Try again
@Jonathan Singleton Well it certainly is not with you lol. If you believe the Son is not God then you are an Idol worshipper if you worship him. No human being could atone for sins of Man-kind and therefore you do not have salvation my friend.
These are the facts & questions you need to study: The only true God is the Father (Jn. 17:5). Jesus is God (2 Pet. 1:1-2, etc). According to Phil 2:6, my Lord Jesus Christ is equal to God (Father). You cannot be equal to yourself. You are equal with another. There is only one God & yet Jesus is equal to the Father. How could that be? This is one of the key! If Jesus is the Father & Jesus died then the Father died? That cannot be! Then, who died? Another key! My Lord Jesus’ death was real! (1 Cor. 15:1-18) If Jesus is God, who died? If we refer to 1 Peter 3:18d, .. killed in the flesh. What does that mean? How is the Lord Jesus the true God (1 Jn. 5:20) and then in Jn 17:3, when he was praying to the Father, the Lord Jesus declares the Father to be “the only true God”? How are they equal? Truly, my Lord Jesus Christ is the mystery of God (YHVH)!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (Joh 1:1-3) LET ME REPEAT: NOTHING WAS MADE THAT WAS MADE! NOTHING! SO WHO EXISTED BEFORE ALL CREATION CAME TO BE? YAHUSHUAH HA MACHIACH!
Deut 18: 18 -19 YHWH clears up Jesus being the word misunderstanding. God put His word inside Jesus to speak on His behalf. Jesus is not the word literally. Genesis 1, God alone, singular, created everything through speaking His word. Isaiah 44, 45 God alone created everything. God didn't use Jesus to speak his word until he was born. Hebrews 1. If you say that Jesus is the Word and that he is in the old testament speaking for/as God, then you are saying scripture is wrong and your interpretation is right.
@@jawnatutorow Jesus does ALL the things that only God can do! He creates the world, fights Israel's battles, forgives sins, raises from the dead, gives sight to the blind, causes the lame to walk, destroys the antichrist, need I say more? Look, if a man has a son, is that son any less human than the father even though he is subject to the father? Messiah YAHushuah is of the Father, from the bosom of God the Father, he is NOT a created being. John 1:3 clearly states that NOTHING that was made was made apart from Him! The flesh, the living temple was created and formed within Miriam, this is why it is said: "A body you have prepared for me." (Hebrews 10:5) And also: "Destroy this temple and I WILL RAISE IT UP AFTER THREE DAYS." Here is more witness from the book of Hebrews: (Hebrews 1:1-3 UKJV) God, who at several times and in divers manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word (o. rhema) of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: Notice that a distinction is made between the prophets and God's beloved Son! I suggest you all pray and read the book of Hebrews. YAH bless.
1:21:45 Dr. Tuggy says: "I'm taking those two verses and making them fit in...." Nuff said! Dr. Tuggy does not want to take the Bible at Face value! He is willingly ignorant of the simple truths lined out in Scripture! Did not the Saducees and Pharisees do the same thing to Jesus, claiming to see/understand while denying the Word of YAH?
Do you want the bible at face value yourself or rather follow what men say? "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time - 1 Tim 2:5-6" That's what the bible calls Jesus, a man, not God or god-man or whatever diety they make him out to be. That's not the only place where Jesus is refered to as a man. Christians have become very skilled at picking verses to back up their theories, instead of allowing the bible to form their theory. Why does Paul still call Jesus a man? Why does the whole book of acts refer to Jesus as a man and never once as a god? Why is the trinity never once preached in the book of acts, but it continually portrays that there is one God, the Father and one man that He has choses as His messiah? Regardless of what these two man debate, we must take the whole council of God into account and scripture is clear, there is but One God and not three. Three persons will never be one, they will always be three, but there is only One God and there is one lord, the man Jesus the Messiah. It's interesting how you only accuse Dr Tuggy of making scriptures fit... at least he's honest enough to mention it. Dr. Brown tries to fit in many scriptures. By linking verses and thoughts of the bible you can make it say anything you want, but if it goes against the clear written scriptures, the linking and thoughts must be subject to the written truth. The clear written truth is that there is one God and one person standing between that God mankind, the man Jesus Christ.
@@benjamina6915 yes! I take YAH's word at face value and consider the whole counsel of YAH's Word! Thomas replied: "My Lord and my God!" Jn 20:28. Also, the Rock that led us up out from Mitzratim is Christ! 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (WEBM) Now I would not have you ignorant, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all immersed into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and all ate the same spiritual food; and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Messiah. Is YAHoshuah your God like Thomas says? As the scripture says! ALL that was created was created by Him and for Him! And NOTHING that has been created has been created apart from Him! I'll ask you a question! The words of the Father, are they Spirit? Are they created or a part of Him?
@@yosefyahu4778 God is Spirit and we must worship Him in spirit and in truth. God is not a man, that He should lie. God is eternal, immutable, unchangeable... yet you have Him change into a man and then let him die. Eternal, immutable, unchangeable means you can't turn into another being and definitely means you cannot taste death.
@@benjamina6915 The Son of God tabernacled among us. If the Son of God wishes to inhabit a body of flesh who are you to deny Him? Who was it who stood in bodily form before Abraham in the Sodom and Gomorrah passage, was it the Father or was it the Son? Exodus 15:3 (WEBM) YHWH is a man of war. YHWH is his name. What is a man? What does made in the image of Elohim mean?
@@yosefyahu4778 no one is denying Jesus a body of flesh and that's not the discussion at all. Unfortunately you are like many people defending the trinity... not listening to the other party and trying to derail the discussion by trying to make it revolve around non issues and not discussing the heart of the matter, but trivial made up things instead. Sorry, I'm not going there.
Dr. Tuggy - thank you so much for this! Dr. Brown is throwing scriptures out, but is not sound in his arguments on a number of points. I am not sure Dr. Brown really even makes a good Trinitarian. Some of his arguing clearly is laced with Sabellianism - Most people are impressed with his throwing up a lot of scriptures and don't realize how unsound Brown actually is. If I were a Trinitarian, I would not depend on Brown for understanding of these things.
Dr tuggy did terrible. But that’s mostly because scripture refutes his downgrading of Jesus and scripture. I would urge you not to take away glory from Jesus.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (UKJV) Moreover, brethren, I would not that all of you should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual food; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. You cannot say that Messiah did not pre-exist when the scriptures CLEARLY states the opposite!
The spirit that dwells in man is not a “spirit being” or an “immortal soul” that inhabits the body. Rather, it is a spiritual component that imparts the power of thought, intellect and consciousness with self-identity: “But there is a spirit in man and the inspiration of the Almighty gives them understanding” (Job 32:8). The apostle Paul wrote, “For who among men understands the things of man except by the spirit of man which is in him?” (I Cor. 2:11). The spirit of man is different from what the Bible calls the “soul.” The word “soul” is translated from the Hebrew nephesh, which refers to physical life, whether human or animal. In many occurrences, nephesh is translated “creature” or “life” (Gen. 1:20-21, 24, 30; 2:19; 9:4-5, 10, 12, 15-16). When translated “soul,” it refers to the physical life and strength of a human being (Gen. 2:7; Ex. 1:5; Lev. 23:30; Deut. 4:29; Josh. 11:11; Ezek. 13:18-19; 18:4, 20). Job 34:14 and Isaiah 42:5 demonstrate that humans possess both the breath of life and the spirit of man. It is important to understand that even with the addition of the human spirit, it is the whole physical and spiritual package that makes up the person-the soul. The whole person is a soul-not has a soul. Neither the soul nor the human spirit retain any consciousness after death (Psa. 146:4). When a person dies, his or her conscious thoughts cease, and the body returns to dust (Gen. 3:9; Psa. 6:5; Eccl. 9:10; Isa. 38:18). Unlike the soul, however, which ends with the death of the body, the spirit in man returns to God when a person dies (Eccl. 12:7). - What am I getting at here? Elohim Most High is so far beyond our limited understanding when it comes to His makeup or composition. If we who are created in the image of God are made up of multiple components and yet are one being why can't God be made of multiple components?
Dr Brown was more convincing using truth of scripture. Dr Tuggy struggled using man made theory which didn't make sense, because he knows scripture doesn't support his argument.
@Lori Dann Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?
@Abraham Mani Yes it is very that Jesus is the only way to salvation but he is not God (Jehovah/Yahweh). He is his son. The Trinity is a false doctrine bro.
Jesus came from heaven because God is literally His Father, He WILL be a son to me and I WILL be a Father to Him, it is the words of Christ that edify ALL others not the other way around and God does not have a God, but Jesus does, and the only way to have eternal life is to know His God is the ONLY TRUE GOD
This idea that a singular verb refers to both the Father and the Son simultaneously is an egregious error, which is the result of bad scholarship and wishful thinking.
I wish dr. Tuggy would've used 1 chronicles 29:20 to support the kind of worship Jesus received... And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.
@EOTJ APOLOGETICS please prove what u claimed by using any hermeneutical approach. U obviously dont understand near eastern culture or ethics. Bowing down or prostrating one self is an act of homage and reverence one gives to someone in a higher place. The west sees such action as a form of worship. And so western scholars confuse themselves and refuse to see Jesus getting the same type of reverence given to him. Instead would rather say he was being worshipped with the same religious intent as YHWH himself. Even when tempted in the wilderness, Jesus quoted that one should worship and serve God only. He never told his tempter to worship him. Even the demons believe God is one and they tremble. Trinitarians have no fear of God believing he is 3. Please study both Greek words and forms of worship and how its used in all contexts when everyone bows the knee to Jesus. After you've done a thorough study, come back to me and we will discuss it. David was revered because he was Gods Christ/Messiah (anointed one) and king. So is Jesus but with much higher authority... seated at Gods right hand. Jesus deserves praise and adoration to the glory of God the Father who made him and anointed him. Jesus entire ministry was aimed to bring peace between us and our Creator through himself alone. One mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ.
@EOTJ APOLOGETICS I appreciate ur kind demeanor. As a Greek student, what exactly is proskuneo and how is it used in the context of rev 5? I posted the Hebrew equivalent to proskuneo by citing 1 Chronicle 29:20. Both subjects, whether God and king, or God and Lamb are both being bowed down to in proskuneo (worship). Also all creation bows down to Jesus because he is "firstborn" (preeminent) over all creation. And he is worthy of praise and proskuneo. Nowhere in the text does it indicate that because Jesus was not categorized with the other creation that he himself is not created. You are inserting your theology into the plain reading of the text. Not very hermeneutical in your approach sir. Please reexamine the 1 chronicles 29 passage and compare it to rev 5. There is virtually no difference in the manner "worship" is used in both contexts...
@@chinochris3181 "The word "proskuneo" means "to kiss the hand, bow down before, show obeisance, to worship." Since the Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus is God, they maintain that He is not to be worshipped. So, how does the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society translate the word "proskuneo" in their Greek New Testament in reference to Jesus and other objects of adoration? The NWT nevertranslates the word into "worship" when it references Jesus. It does, however, render the word as "worship" regarding the devil, the dragon, the beast, the image, demons, idols, and an angel. Of course, they correctly translate it as "worship" when it deals with God. Is the New World Translation biased against worshipping Jesus? It would surely seem so and especially since the NASB, NIV, KJV, NKJV, etc., all translate the word as "worship" in reference to Jesus." AND "First of all, 1 Chron. 29:20 obviously cannot mean that David was worshiped equally with God. This would be blasphemy. Therefore, it is best to translate the Hebrew word shachah as "pay homage" or "bow down" as is attested to by other translations. "Then David said to all the assembly, "Now bless the Lord your God." And all the assembly blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed low and did homage to the Lord and to the king," (NASB)."Then David said to the whole assembly, "Praise the LORD your God." So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king," (NIV)."Then David said to all the assembly, "Now bless the Lord your God." So all the assembly blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and prostrated themselves before the Lord and the king," (NKJV)."Then David said to all the assembly, "Bless the Lord your God." And all the assembly blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and paid homage to the Lord and to the king," (ESV). Is it legitimate to translate the verse this way? Yes it is because it is consistent with Hebrew dictionaries which tell us that the word shachah can mean worship, bow down, obeisance, reverence, fall down, crouch, prostrate oneself, (Enhanced Strong's Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995.) See the same thing stated in The Abridged Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew-English Lexicon of the Old Testament, Richard Whitaker, Editor, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997). This would easily demonstrate that David was not being worshiped. Instead, homage was being paid to him as was also being paid to God--though, of course, there is no confusion about who is God and who is not." Moreover, when the Ancient Days is explicitly shown sharing his divinity with the "one like a son of man" (keep in mind that "like" indicates that the being isn't human: it usually signifies angels, but no angel would be given shared divinity with YHWH, and this is further clarified by Hebrews 1) the word used for "worship" is pelach, which is a different Hebrew word the one that appears in the scene with David. This means that the word pelach is in some way directly connected to divinity, unlike other words that could have been chosen. The point being, mixing New Testament texts with Old Testament texts without discernment has many many problems to it.
@@blanktrigger8863 the problem is you are also taking bias just as JWs concerning shachah or proskuneo. U accuse JWs for changing the meaning of worship when it concerns Christ. But u have no problem when trinitarians change the meaning to suit worship to Christ. Context always determines the use of the word. U said correctly that "only" God receives worship. There is only one God, YHWH (deut 6:4). So only God receives religious worship. if anyone else besides YHWH is receiving shachah/proskuneo a long with him, they are being shown reverence. The english translation of Hebrew and Greek words for worship causes confusion. KJV had no problem translating it into worship in 1 chronicles 29 because that's what it literally says. Worship of God alone is a worship only given to our Creator. Bowing down to his anointed (Messiah) is our demonstration of giving him glory. I think u should study a bit more on near eastern culture. Learn more about bowing customs in those days and why they were performed. God and His Christ both deserve to be kneeled to in reverence and awe. But God alone deserves his unique worship as Creator of all.
@@hubertagamasu6283 so, you are comparing trying to understand the doctrine of the Trinity to trying to understand Quantum physics? I don't need to understand quantum physics to be saved. but yet, I can't be saved according to Dr. Brown without believing in the Trinity. and how can I believe in it if I don't comprehend it? I have been through a hundred hours of these debates and still no Trinitarian can help make sense of it. and believe me, I am trying.
Yes it certainly can be. I have struggled for a long time tying to derive at some clarity, but in the end I just couldn't excape the cleat words of God and Jesus, setting aside the opposing arguments. Jn 3"16 God Clearly stated he SENT his Son. On the Holy Mt. in the presence of John, Peter & James , God declared that Jesus was his son, the one he loved and approved, and told the three disciples to Listen to him [Jesus]. This is the same declaration Moses stated in the OT regarding a prophet like himself who was to come.. Numerous places in scriptures it states that Jesus is NOW seated at the right hand of God the Father. Theses verses are absolutely CLEART regardless of the so-called many trinirarian proof text. Even though they "appear" to carry weight of the deity of Jesus or a God-man, or God the son [no where in the Bible]. I think I will just go with what Jesus and God say regarding their identity. And save myself some headaches.
@@hubertagamasu6283quantum physics is not true! dude look up Austin Witsit. He’ll straighten up your cosmology real quick. And drop the Pharisee energy, it’s not all that convincing.
Clarifying to me. Dr. Brown exposed that Dr.. Tuggy must believe in 2 gods, father & son or else we worship, a mere created being. The Bible clearly reads Jesus is the alpha, the omega, the beginning and the end. Was there before all things were created, and all things were created through him. Jesus is the son is God. Jesus is God.
This poor Dr. Tuggy guy was not prepared for this debate. He came prepared to debate modalism (Dr. Brown is not a modalist, so every assertion was a straw-man). It is clear from his presentation that he does not listen, either. He came to insult and to make snarky comments. Dr. Brown emphasized that the flesh was crucified while his spirit did not die. Tuggy was even corned on this! He agreed his spirit didn't die then when Dr. Brown made him answer so Jesus didn't die, he ran away and said ask me when its your turn to ask questions! Dr. Tuggy you need to have a response to how the spirit of Christ remained while his flesh dying at the same time. The reincarnation is the explanation for this!
Dr. Brown won, Tuggy didn't have good attack points and quoted others and brought up creeds and less of scripture. His first presentation was interesting but didn't have much to stand on, he cherry picked church father's and says the Greek scripture was wrong just to fit his view.
@@PEH5806 cite any pagan religion that believes in 3 co-eternal person who make 1 God. I’ll be waiting. By the way I said cite a source, don’t quote me your opinion.
@@dualtags4486 Very strange that you don't know about 3 in 1 concept. You can even find this in Hinduism besides Greek pagon concept. One supreme God who consisted of three persons or essences. The Babylonians used an equilateral triangle to represent this three-in-one god. The Greek triad was composed of Zeus, Athena and Apollo. Who are the 3 gods of Hinduism? It is often said that there is a trinity of Hindu gods: Brahma the creator, Vishnu the preserver and Shiva the destroyer. But while Vishnu and Shiva have followers and temples all over India, Brahma is not worshiped as a major deity. The story of the virgin birth was not new at the time of Christ. Millennia before Christ was supposedly born to a virgin, the mythical Egyptian god Horus was born to the virgin Isis. Krishna, the Hindu god, was also born of a holy virgin. Both Jesus and Krishna are held to be god incarnate by two religions. The Christians is just another concept of God 3 in 1 which has been used much more earlier. Even other religions their diety already born out of virgin mother and not exclusive for Jesus alone.
@@dualtags4486 Pls do some homework bro. Don't expect everything to be spoon feed. Its not a secret 3 in 1 God practices by other religions besides Christians. Everyone should know about that. You want source you need to go to library. Here I can give you the summarised articles only.
@(( Christian Man )) Mr " Christian man" this is something for you to think about, you will die in your sins unless you believe that I AM you will die in your sins, in the literal Greek it's I Am not I Am he, I wonder whether that I Am has ever echoed something to you
@@sethlubega3153 If you don't believe that Jesus is Christ, the Son of God you will die in your sins. If you believe that he is Christ, the Son of God you will have life through his name. See John 20:31 God made Jesus Lord and Christ See Acts 2:36
@@iamdenisehiers6719 you mean the same acts that tells you God purchased the church with his own blood acts 20:28, the I AM the Lord Jesus uses in John 8:24 is the I AM God uses to describe himself in Deuteronomy 32: 39 it's I Am without nothing added to , the I AM where the Divine name YAHWEH is derived, mind you in John 1:1 they have already told you the word is God, yes the Lord Jesus is God one with the Father and holy Spirit
@@sethlubega3153 God was in Christ ......but the Father that dwelleth in me ,he doeth the works. See John 14:10 Also, Matthew 12:28 " But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you." Also Acts 2:22, "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth a man approved by God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you......" God was in Christ. Amen.
To answer that guys question a t 2:30:00, Jesus died, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit, in which he also went and preached unto the spirits in prison. 1Peter 3:18-19. There you go, the body died not the spirit.
Brown said the Son did NOT die - that is true in the trinitarian sense, because God can not die (if Jesus is God, he couldn’t die). However, exactly this exposes the trinity doctrine as false and unbiblical, because the Son factually did die. If Jesus didn’t die, as Brown testifies about the trinitarian belief, then there’s no forgiveness of sins.
@EOTJ APOLOGETICS "Do you really believe that death means cessation of existence????" Yes I do, and Scripture confirms it. Why do you subscribe to Platonic philosophy when it contradicts clear Scripture? Revelation 20:14, Psalm 1:6, Psalm 37:20, Psalm 92:7, Matthew 10:28b, John 3:16, Romans 6:23, Philippians 3:19, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, James 4:12a. To be clear, ALL will be raised to face judgment at the second coming of the Son of Man who is seated at the right hand of Power. Believing God the Father raised Jesus the Christ from the dead is the one and ONLY source of eternal life. You act as if you already have that eternal life, with or without the Messiah! Also by your immortal soul logic, there were three immortals crucified at Golgotha. The idea of the immortal soul was the first lie the devil told "Ye shall not surely die". But what did God say to Adam and Eve? "You shall surely die!" Was this just the body that died? It was not, as God was talking to ADAM who was according to 1 Cor 15:45, "a living soul". The very distinction that Adam became a "living" soul implies there is a soul that is "not living" a.k.a ceasing to exist.
EOTJ APOLOGETICS do not falsely accuse me. Brown said “the Son of God did not die”... then he tried to save his position by saying “the incarnate Jesus died”. This is borderline schizophrenia, or Brown has a fourth god in his pantheon. Jesus the Messiah IS the Son of God. Either he died or he didn’t. It is sad that we have to explain to you trinitarians that the dead are really dead.
The answers you get from trinis on this are all over the place. Trinis argue Jesus could not have been "a mere man" because a mere man can not die for sins, he therefore had to be more, he had to be God. That means God died. Some of the same trinis argue then that God did not die, but instead Jesus died in his human nature---which goes back to man dying.
The problem is what non-Trinitarians mean by "God died". They bring in a Jehovah's Witness view that they don't even believe in themselves when speaking of regular human beings. So what do you mean by death? If you mean death of the body, then yes, God died like a regular human being. If you mean Jehovah witness death, then that's a false teaching.
@@anissueofursincerity It's only "all over the place" if you think death means Jehovah Witness death. If, however, death means "I commit my spirit into your hands" (as Tuggy refused to admit), then you're left with a non-argument.
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should strike the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fireceness and wrath of Almighty God. 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Incase anyone missed it, it's the wrath of Almighty God, and he is LORD. ~ The Word of God ~Jn 1:1
@@AndreasOfPatraeGod means mighty one, not Yahweh. He's definitely our god in that he is our king and ruler but he's not the one true god, that being the father, a separate being.
Always a pleasure to hear Mr. Tuggy. Quick note, Jude talk about Jesus freeing his people in Egypt. Also, Jesus himself also talks about knowing Abraham in the gospels.
Really? Where in Scriptures did Jesus and Abraham meet? Did they talk with one another? Abraham had a revelation from God the Father of the coming Messiah. Is that so hard to comprehend. God sees things that are as though they have already happened. When scriptures speak of David"s and Abraham's seed , who do you suppose it is making reference? The Messiah Jesus.
”And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; and he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, and said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:“ Genesis 18:1-3 KJV Although the other 2 are later identified as angels in Genesis 19:1, some say the 3 are the Triune God coming down to earth to speak with Abraham.
Just to add some clarification to the original greek here. Both debaters actually misquote the verse "The Throne of God and of The Lamb". This is the greek "Estai ho thronos tou Theou kai tou Arniou en autē, kai hoi douloi autou latreuseusin autō." In the above "Theo" is God and "Arniou" is The Lamb.. they both are preceded by the word "Tou" which means "of". The debaters for some reason were dropping the word "of" in front of the lamb. If you drop the "of" in front of the lamb, it would seem that Tuggy is right in saying we have "The throne of God... and oh btw there's a lamb there". But the Greek has the "of" in front of the lamb also. So this is clearly saying the throne is "of God and of The Lamb". The throne being both of the lamb and God shows that they are both sovereign and therefore the sentence would be read as saying the worship is for both.
@@matthewsouthwell3500 and i couldn't help but notice you didn't say "Yes I know that God is not the offspring of David." either. because from way you're cross referencing those two verses, it leads me to think that you don't actually know the difference between God and Jesus 🤔
@@matthewsouthwell3500 Right, the root of David. That makes him a descendant of David, that makes him a man. Jesus is the Christ the Son of God. God said he tries the reins and hearts, so why do you have such a hard time believing that his Son also tries the reins and hearts? Have you never heard the saying "like father like son"? Remember John 5:19? Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. You should know the difference between a Father and his Son.
This centuries old debate started by Arius and Anthancious in the 4th Century will never end. Really good debate though. The NONE trinitarian view is more logical, simple, convincing, and scriptural in my opinion.
Dr Tuggy said many times about some versus; the "scholars says". To me that sounds like the Roman Catholicism, they also says that whatever their "scholars said" .
He only appeals to scholars in cases where the trinitarian believer would be swayed by scholars. The final authority on theology for the unitarian is the scriptures, not 3rd and 4th century converted philosophers.
Greetings, Loved Ones! John 14, verse 28: Christ said"...I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."! In John 20, verse 17, Christ said, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"! Read below! #2 12-19-2022!
Which part of Philippians do you not understand? Jesus who was in the nature of God, to the nature of a human servant. As a servant, would the Father not be greater than him? As a human servant, will the Father not be his God?
I would like to ask Michael Brown if his triune God is the same as Jesus' God -- did Jesus worship the Triune God of modern Christianity? Remember he said he was going "to my God and your God". Did not our Master the only sinless man obey the Greatest commandment in the Law and Love YHWH, his God with all his heart, might, mind and strength? Is he not our perfect example? Brown keeps saying that Unitarians don't worship the God of the Bible. The God and Father of our Lord Jesus is the God of the Bible, PERIOD! The only true God is the God and Father of our Lord and Savior Yeshua the Messiah -- and that is not a triune God!
The point that Dr. Brown is trying to make is that when you say Jesus isn't God and that He is simply a lesser being but then go ahead and worship Him as God and pray using His name, that you are engaging in idolatry. You are only supposed to worship God, if you worship a created being you are not worshiping God and are therefore breaking the first and second commandments that were given to Moses.
You put a period where God doesn't. Matthew 28:19 says each member of the Triune Godhead has a NAME, and that name is Yahovah or Yahweh or the less anointed but correct Greek theos or God, understanding that He is not just any Elohim. He is the Creator Elohim, and it was the WORD who spoke the creation into being on behalf of the Father, who has never descending to earth yet as did the Yahweh of the First Testament.
Yeshua is not YHWH and he said so when he told the Jews that his father is the one they call God. They were Jews and they knew who God was as indicated by Jesus when he said that the Jews know what they worship to the woman at the well. As far as the term "worship" goes, it is an english word that does not convey the exact meaning of the Hebrew and Greek words it is translated from, which usually mean bow down or pay homage or giving honor too. It was given to kings, rulers as well as God himself. The key is that the honor due to the Son is not the same as that due to the Father as clearly shown in Revelation chapters 4 & 5. This is also shown by the fact that Yeshua refuses to take credit for his teachings and miracles but gives all the glory to the Father when he said "of myself I can do nothing, it is the Father that dwells in me [through the in dwelling of the Spirit], HE DOES THE WORKS"!
@@dhodzmelgar2933 fully man and fully god. Fully square yet fully circle. The cake is there but you ate it. Complete left yet completely right. Anything else?
I believe he was attempting to express that necessity and obviousness of the death of Jesus's flesh but not his supernatural expression of eternal existence. As a point of explanation: Matt 10:28: "And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul, but instead be afraid of the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. " Matt 27:50: "And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and gave up his spirit" At least what I take away from this is that the spirit is not dead upon the death of the physical body, and this was expressed euphemistically on the cross when Jesus "gave up his spirit". The obvious purpose was to resolve and declare the termination of Jesus' physical life -- as a secondary proceeding, we see that Jesus' physicality is declared dead but not his spirit. The incarnation died, the Son did not die. If you're left with the lingering question of spiritual death too, I suppose that's a part of the whole -- Jesus defeated death, because He was singularly qualified and capable of it due to his sinlessness. I don't think I'm straying into some heresy I'm aware of by speculating that perhaps by the nature of His eternal and uncorrupted existence, He was unable to be "reaped" into the destruction of His soul in addition to His body when he departed the physical realm into the spiritual realm [described as Sheol/Hades in the text]. So upon resurrection, He brought life back into His former mortal coil. Thus physical death, the shedding of blood to redeem as a sacrifice, and then the resurrection to defeat death by defying its power over Him.. Apologies for the stream of consciousness! Hope this was in some way useful.
Tyler Smith thank you for the response, I understand your point of view. If it helps here is a link to what I believe and hopefully you can understand my dilemma a little better. www.pursuegod.org/hebrew-word-study-nefesh/
Wow Michael Brown smoked him 😮 His Jewish background gives him perspective that the other guy doesn’t have! So many quotes in the NT from the OT. Quotes about Yahweh applied to Jesus! We definitely know the NT authors believed Jesus is God!
It seems to me Tuggy made more sense than Dr Brown, he does not even know what kind of trinitarian is he, the trinity is a pagan teaching given by the Catholic church & than later taught by protestant churches, it was named after a pagan lawyer Tertullian, God made it clear he is one there is no other before or after him, plus he made it clear he is not a man or son of man there is no bible verse that states God would send a piece or part of himself instead he sent his servant & son Jesus Numbers 23:19: GOD IS NOT A MAN, that he should LIE, Hos: 11:9 NEITHER THE SON OF MAN that he should repent: Hath he said, and will he not do it?Deuteronomy 6:4 “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. Sadly trinitarian scribes purposely changed Gods name Jehovah or Yahweh in Hebrew to titles like Lord to confuse or blur the distinction between him & his servant & son Jesus, John 17:3, FATHER YOUR ARE THE ONLY TRUE GOD, 4:23-25. WORSHIP THE FATHER & YOUR GOD IN SPIRIT & TRUTH. John 20:17 (I ACESND TO MY FATHER & MY GOD) (WHERE IS HOLY SPIRIT?) GOD IS NOT A TRINITY Malachi 3:6 For I, Jehovah, change not; therefore ye, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed. 1 Kings 8:60 that all the peoples of the earth may know that Jehovah, he is God; there is NONE ELSE . 1 Corinthians 8:6(ASV) yet to us there is one God, the FATHER, (not son or or holy spirit -gods power) of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, (authorized king) Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him. MALACHI 2:10 WE HAVE ONE GOD AND FATHER JEHOVAH
@@mitchelladkins3502 1stCorinthians chapter 10 verse 4 shows Christ follows/doesn't lead Israel out of Egypt. Exodus chapter 13 verse 21 'the LORD went before them in a pillar of a cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night'.
@One God One Christ 1stCorinthians chapter 10 verse 4 Christ follows/doesn't lead Israel out of Egypt. Exodus chapter 13 verse 21 'the LORD went before them in a pillar of a cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night'.
One God one Christ You call the WORD of GOD corupted, why? Because it doesn't fit your cult's fubar doctrine? So let us write our own bible, with our doctrins? Who is on the throne in Isaiah 6:1? Gen. 15:1, 4 in the Hebrew reads WORD YHWH came unto Abraham in a vision, WORD YHWH says.to him. Genesis has all three individuals echad "unified" YHWH, WORD YHWH and MESSENGER YHWH. Who is Melchizedek in Gen 14:18, Isa 9:6 and Heb. 7:1?
What a travesty and insult to the Messiah and to God to downgrade Jesus' sacrifice as our human Messiah to simply say that it wasn't really him who died, but just his body. Jesus died. Otherwise he wouldn't have been able to be risen on the 3rd day. You can't be risen up from death if you never really died in the first place.
He experianced human death - and this is the death of the body.... what else should it be? Are you an atheist and believe the soul dies with the body? The eternal Word is God (John 1,1) and bevame flesh (John 1 14) and suffered in the flesh (1 Pet 4,1)
@ 51:11 Dr. Tuggy, the text plainly says that the Word became Flesh! The word also clearly says that Christ created all things! Does no one see the issue here in Dr. Tuggy refuting the plain reading and meaning of the text?
May be this is what u mean by plain reading: God the Son became flesh
Word is not a physical person. It is God's attribute. It is his Logos, translated from the Greek as the thought/plan/purpose of God, which was revealed through a human being Jesus.
Dr Brown what a privilege to hear a jew acknowledging the messiah
!!!
@basilhendricks ... really!? Did jews ever believed that God is a trinity?!😮😅
@AhmedManka-lf2fj read proverbs 30 v 4,God cannot have a Son if the Son is also not God
@@basilhendricks788 that means Jesus is Devine by nature of being begotten. God is not begotten, begotten by definition means created, surley the apostles weren't saying God was created. Only a roman would think God becomes man or the other way around.
Begotten is a poor translation from Greek ,it should read God's only unique Son
Worshipping = bowing down = respect
David was worshipped, king Saul was worshipped, Joseph was worshipped...search the word bow down...
worship as....?
David and Saul were worshipped as earthly kings.
Idols were worshipped as god.
Jesus was worshipped by his disciples as...?
[Simon Peter said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."]
the wise men worship Jesus as king of israel,thats they leave him immediately,if they think Jesus is a God they would ask that god-man protection,Jesus is worshipped as king@@superviola88
@@ManlyServantThomas called Jesus his lord and his God.
@@Jrce11 right if you read earlier in John it was the same Thomas who didn't see the father in Christ when Yeshua said if you have seen me you have seen the father. At that moment post resurrection Thomas saw His Lord Yeshua the son of God and his God Yahweh that Yeshua testified was with him, in him, who's word he was speaking, and who's works he was doing. God his father. Its coming full circle and reaching understanding and a place of believing because he is now sees the Lord resurrected
Did God the Father tell all his angels to worship them like he told them to worship his Son?
God the Father says in Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
1:6 And again, when when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
God the Father saith, "Let all the angels of God worship him."
This is why I believe that translations matter. If you read the 1560 Geneva Bible, John 1:1-4 says, “In the beginning was THE Word, and THE Word was with God, and ‘THAT’ Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by ‘IT’ and without ‘IT’ was made nothing that was made. In ‘IT’ was life, and the life was the light of men.”
That clearly supports and backs up Genesis 1:3, “And God ‘said’ “Let there be light” and there was light”
I believe that it’s clear at the beginning of John that he was referring to God speaking the world into existence…proving that Isaiah is true that says He stretched forth the heavens and earth by Himself and that there was no one with Him
WOW! When Dr Tuggy spoke during his introduction it felt cold and calculated but when Dr. Brown spoke, it moved me to tears! To think that God Himself would come down and die for me, and not only that, to take upon Himself the brutal punishment I deserved is a love that is truly divine! Surely, no mere mortal could have walked in thought and in deed without sin and also take upon himself this monumental burden unless he be God! HallelluYAH!
I must caution you to NOT accept a doctrine because it feels better or because it moves you to tears. These are all very subjective things, and they are not a firm foundation upon which true Faith should be founded. God gave us the ability to reason, and we must use it when we worship Him. The truth is that the Holy Scriptures teach us that there is only one true God, Yhwh, and that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are all called Yhwh, the only one true God. The Father sends the Son, and the Father and the Son send the Holy Ghost. The Son entered into His Creation in human flesh at a point in history, He lived a sinless human life, suffered, died, resurrected and ascended, and the Holy Ghost lives in and amongst God's people until Jesus,, the Son in human flesh, returns and He will judge us and restore all things.
Holy Scripture is God speaking to us, and it is sure and trustworthy. Human emotions are not!
@@PrenticeBoy1688 YAHushua is God. I don't decide by feelings, that was just an observation. The witness of scripture is overwhelming concerning the God head of YAH. There is the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of error. Tell me please your thoghts concerning the following verse: Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Messiah. (1Co 10:1-4)
@@yosefyahu4778 I think you should re-read my comment, or perhaps read all of it as it appears you didn't do that.
@@PrenticeBoy1688 Oh! My apologies! Amen to that!
@@yosefyahu4778 Thank you for your gracious and brotherly apology. You, and as you pointed out, Dr. Brown demonstrate how Christians are to behave; something I too often struggle to do.
It's important to take our opponents seriously and to read all of what they say to us, to hear them out completely. By doing so, we can more fairly and accurately address their error by the standard of the Holy Scriptures. Let the offence of the Gospel be the only cause of offence to the unbeliever.
I usually dont comment on stuff like this but I watch them all the time. No offense to Dr.Tuggy but to say that John 1:1-2 and then 14 is NOT talking about Jesus is a HUGE stretch! I was shocked by that one!
I think when we take into account Deut 18:18-19, God makes a clear distinction between His word and Jesus, them not being the same thing. The word is God. God puts His word into the prophet (Jesus) to speak on His behalf.
One that always baffles me is when Revelation 1:8 describes Jesus Christ as "Alpha and Omega" and "the Almighty". If one denies the deity of Christ, they MUST discount the plainness of the verse and simplicity to understand it with convoluted explanations and interpretations.
@@ricardoguzman5014Revelation 1:8 is not Christ's originally. He's speaking it as an agent as is stated in Revelation 1:1. Christ isn't speaking of himself until John mentions him in verse 13...
The Father is God - But Jesus Christ is His Son and our Lord - you cannot get to God unless you go through Jesus.........
the son of god created all things that was made.
@@joshjeggs 'In the beginning God/Elohim(Gods) created the heavens and the earth': God (Jehovah Jehovah Isaiah chapter 26 verse 4) Isaiah 45:11-22; Jesus/Word John chapter 1 verse 3, Hebrews chapter 1 verse 10: two men according to (Scripture) the law each has their own material body which is a soul and has a rhuach spirit within him John chapter 8 verses 17-18: Jesus, who had been the Word wearing a God-body Philippians chapter 2nd verse 6, created with his hands; God created Isaiah chapter 45 verses 11-12 with his hands John chapter 8 verses 17-18 one of the two witnesses about Jesus.
@@leonardhunt5677 WRONG
the word is the actual words of God ... not JEsus..
@King J-dub what do feeling have to do with this? No where in the old testament does it speak of a trinity or jesus being the son of God... the first 3 commandments say I am the LORD thy God.
No other gods before me.
No graven images or likenesses.
@@bournrich3353 The writer of Hebrews 1 is speaking of the Son who was.
All things that were made according to the Fathers will and at His command He made through Jesus.
As in all things its from the Father and through the Son.
But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
10 He also says,
“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”
13 To which of the angels did God ever say,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”
The answer to the question @ 2:32:30 - Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME. (Heb 10:5) Also Messiah says: "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I HAVE POWER TO LAY IT DOWN, and I HAVE POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN. This command I have received from My Father." (Joh 10:17-18) Question: How did Yahushuah raise His own body while being dead?
Not just that he said also Jesus said somewhere in John that destroy this temple and in 3 days I will build it up again
Keep searching for the answer, see the passage of the temple in context based on what the evangelist believed also.
God raised Jesus from the dead by his Spirit.
Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
@@iamdenisehiers6719 Test Paul as a true apostle.
@@brenosantana1458 Paul is not a true Apostle?
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is One! Deut 6:4
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 1 Tim 2:5
Jesus said to her, "...'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'" John 20:17
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort. 2 Cor 1:3
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. Acts 3:13
But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 1 Cor 11:3
Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!" Luke 9:35
I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Chosen One of God. John 1:34
Because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead." Eph 1:4
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED. Rom 10:9
God raised Jesus
Jesus he will raise himself
= Jesus is God
Numbers 23:19 )God is Not a man nor is he a human so he does not change his mind!!.
That's why christ never lied and never changed his mind. For he did what he came for. Amen brother!!!
@@yonasfesseha4900 Jesus referred to himself as “God’s Son” or “the Son of God.” (John 10:36; 11:4) Jesus never identified himself as Almighty God.
Moreover, Jesus prayed to God. (Matthew 26:39) And while teaching his followers how to pray, Jesus said: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.”-Matthew 6:9
@@Azarable yeah he is the unique son of God. Because jesus never said I am God doesn't mean he isn't God. If I say I'm God doesn't make me a God just because I said it. And is it the only way to know if someone is God or not just by claiming his God? I mean who can have the attributes of God except God himself. Like jesus is the beginning and the end the alpha and omega the first and the last. He is the resurrection. He is the king of king and lord of lord. He is the good shepherd. He is the father of eternity. He is THY truth. He is Thy life. He created all things, he accepted worship, He existed before the world was. This are the attributes of God so who can have those attributes except God himself? So if jesus have those attributes what is he saying to us? Its obvious.
Yeah jesus prayed, jesus called the father his God, jesus got hungry, jesus got tired, jesus wasnt all knowing, jesus had all this human nature. Why because he was truly man and truly God the incarnation called the hypostatic union. This all thing u see is based on his human nature. Why did jesus prayed because he became a man. when he became a man why should he stop talking to the father? Prayer is a way of communicating with God. Why did jesus call the father his God because he bacame a man. When he became a man he's not gonna be a hard athiest is he? Why should he stop his relationship with the father? Why should he stop talking to the father? In Jeremiah it clearly states that God is the God of all flesh. So when the son became a man he worships the father in the flesh.
@@yonasfesseha4900 You said it yourself that Jesus (Yeshua) Christ never said he was God (Yahweh). You see?? You just admitted it.
@@yonasfesseha4900 Jesus (Yeshua) Christ made a clear distinction between him and his Father
Does the identity of God have to be “a very profound mystery”? It did not seem so to Jesus. In his prayer to his Father, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ made a clear distinction between him and his Father when he said: “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ.” (John 17:3) If we believe Jesus and understand the plain teaching of the Bible, we will respect him as the divine Son of God that he is. We will also worship Jehovah as “the only true God.”
Jesus (Yeshua) Christ said that “the true worshipers will worship the Father with . . . truth.” (John 4:23) That truth has been recorded in the Bible. (John 17:17) Does the Bible teach that the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit are three persons in one God?
For one thing, the Bible does not mention the word “Trinity.” For another, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ never claimed to be equal to God (Yahweh). Instead, Jesus worshipped God (Yahweh). (Luke 22:41-44) A third line of evidence concerns Jesus’ relationship with his followers. Even after he was raised from the dead to the spirit realm, Jesus (Yeshua) called his followers “my brothers.” (Matthew 28:10) Were they brothers of Almighty God? Of course not! But through their faith in Christ-God’s preeminent Son-they too became sons of the one Father. (Galatians 3:26) Compare some additional scriptures with the following statement from the creed attributed to the Council of Nicaea.
Dr. Brown, thanks for making it clearer using Scripture verses like John 1:1,14
Col. 2:9 "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form", Jesus as God and not just a glorified person.
Why woud Jesus even desire to grasp equality with God, since according to you he is God? John 1: 1 is the MOST misunderstood verse in scriptures and so misleading. I doubt that without Jn 1 :1 there would even be such a doctrine of the Trinity.
I think the word “Trinity” is insufficient to describe the nature of God. Having said that, the Bible makes it clear that Jesus Christ IS God. The evidence is exhaustive. One cannot deny the deity of Jesus Christ without ignoring, denying, or twisting scripture
Correct. God doesn't share His glory, even with His children as shown to us.
@@priscillajervey8345it would be convenient for you to not have John 1:1, wouldn't it? Fortunately for all of us, God said it so it's real. Just as Jesus saying "I Am" and calling Himself "THE ALPHA AND OMEGA" in Revelation. There's nothing else that can be said after that clear statement.
Well....if you say so!@@AndreasOfPatrae
Another thing Tuggy misses when he says there was no controversy related to Christ’s Deity. I disagree. Read Matt. 26:62-65. I along with most exegetes consider the “Son of Man” to be a reference to Dan. 7:14-14 which was understood by
His opponents as a claim to Deity. Since falsely claiming to be an exalted purely human messiah is not blasphemy, it’s evident they are charging Him with claiming, not this lesser Messianic claim, but by “Son of God” and referring to this passage with claiming the *greater* claim to be a Divine Messiah. Since they rejected His claims already, this was nothing short-in the eyes-to a blasphemous claim to Godhood. Hence they voted to condemn Him.
What's the confusion here? If God said he made man in his image; but when he comes in the image to reveal himself, now is a problem? 🕵🕵
The authors of the first books in the Bible imagined that God looked like a mighty man
Anthropomorphic
They could imagine nothing more
Later NT writers show God lIving in unapproachable light!
@Mark Metternich Gof did not say that God made man in his image
Early scripture writers assumed that God looked like a mighty King
Neigh even greater
That’s all they could imagine!
@Mark Metternich the problem is if it was HIS IMAGE why would it actually be him and not HIS IMAGE?
Numbers 23 19 YHWH tells us He is not a man or son of man.
He is invisible, He's a Spirit, He dwells in unapproachable light. No man has seen him. Reread Exodus, the people were terrified to even be in the presence of His glory!
Day 6, possibly speaking to/and about Adam and Eve. Since they are the only image we know that looks like us.
Creation account pattern, God states what He is going to do first and then how He does it after. Very easily could be talking to/about His creation Adam. It's the only time God speaks in plural form, even day 7, He rested, singular.
@jawnatutorow
Numbers 23:19 Never said God is not a man. You should always read the scripture the right way. God is making a statement here, Never take a phrase and leave the rest out.
Numbers 23:19 says,
God is not a man that he should lie;
Neither the son of man, that he should repent. Hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall not make it good?
I thought myself believing in the trinity doctrine, but dr brown just convinced me the trinity doctrine is unscriptural.
Trinity is the truth
You don't read the Bible for your self do you ?? In the beginning God created the heavens and earth. Is this statement true??? Yes or no ???
So col ch 1: 1-20 says Christ created all things. You guys are in a dark place my guy.
@@keeptrying761 can God die?
@@Mathew-o5j2u
Yes, if He becomes a man, He can experiance human death. But Gods divine nature cant die of course.
As it says, the Word of God became flesh and suffered in the flesh, as the man Jesus Christ
"Only the Father is God; in the New Testament the word God usually applies except for the times when it doesn't"...
This "debate" complete aside, there is one thing in those discussions never addressed, and that is that the bible differs from all pagan religions in the point of having one God, not more than the one God. Trinitarianism, polytheism, is of pagan roots and the bible proofs that over and over and that is never discussed.
Philippians 2: 5-7 (NKJV), "...Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men."
@Paul Mata Jesus referred to himself as “God’s Son” or “the Son of God.” (John 10:36; 11:4) Jesus never identified himself as Almighty God.
Moreover, Jesus prayed to God. (Matthew 26:39) And while teaching his followers how to pray, Jesus said: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.”-Matthew 6:9.
Here, you dropped this:
Philippians 2:9 (NASB) For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
God, as in Yahweh, highly exalted Jesus.
Trinitarians always skip this verse! This is why Dr Tuggy said context is king!
God is the God of all flesh Jeremiah 32. So yes the son will always call the father God from the moment he entered in the flesh. But the father also calls the son God. Hebrews 1.
Easy peezy
@@lizzard13666 Jesus took a form of a servant..
@@arold4928 Yes! When he could have been King and taken power immediately, as per his temptation in the wilderness. Instead Jesus took the form of a servant.
El Gibborim is used in Eze 32:21 for a group of men. Every one of them is an El Gibbor. It is factually inaccurate for Dr Brown to assert El Gibbor as an exclusive title for Yahweh.
That is lie as it states "ḡib·bō·w·rîm ’ê·lê," while Isaiah 9:6 states "gib·bō·wr ’êl"
@@JuanLopez-rl7ry Ele/Eli is spelled the same way as Eli in Psalm22:1 in Hebrew. The root word is El. Just look at Biblehub H410. So it is not false just same word, but can be used as singular, plural or adjective.
May God the Father blessing, love and truth be with you, in Lord Jesus Christ Name, Amen!❤️
@@yeahwheey1Yeah your right only difference is one is singular and one is plural it's still the same basic word, like in english we have hat and hats, slightly different spelling still same basic word in meaning.
El gibbon is a ‘red herring ‘
The event being referred to in Isaiah 9 was the birth of a Davidic King and the words the Heavenly Council would use to greet his birth!
Some Christians have readdressed these words to Christ!
Incorrectly!
But they keep doing it!
@@johnbrien6313 LOL! David was buried for 275 years when Isaiah prophesy 9:6. After Solomon the kingdom was devided. A Davidic king would ruled all Isreal not just Judah. 60 years later you're in captivity and ruled by 4 beast empires then Jerusalem was made desolate for 1878 years. Dan. 9:24-27 happened with the last week still to play out. Your Temple stones still remain thrown down crying out "a plase for trumpeting" if I recall correctly.
JESUS is the only canidate being from the line of Jesse>David>Nathan on the seed of the woman side and the laws of inheritance on Joseph's line Jesse>David>Solomon. GOD is not a nan such as HE would lie. It all went down to the day and hour. HIS will be done.
Some Christians still do? Isa. 9:1-6 is quoted as being fulfilled in Mat. 4:11-16. I'm happy your not associating yourself with Christianity, we'll consider you a mission field.
Michael Brown at 1:07:40 "I came jealous for a full revelation of the love of God, who demonstrates His great heart for us not by sending a glorified man to die for us, but by giving of His very self, His own Son, His own unique Son, coming into this world."
This sentence makes no sense to me. Brown says the Son of God is God's very self (and not in the sense of someone's child metaphorically being their "heart"). Brown is saying God's Son is God Himself. Why on earth would God use the phrase "Son" rather than simply "Myself"? It makes God seem like He's playing with words to confuse us. Also, the way Brown speaks makes it seem like God sending Himself is a great thing, but God sending the man Jesus (who IS God's Son) is some kind of lesser act to be looked down upon.
Overall great debate.
You need the Holy Spirit to make understand the scriptures brother. Dr Brown is full of the Holy Spirit and the other dude is not, He is just religious not spiritual.
@@ndjibukabengele973 Nah. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate that the Holy Spirit should contradict reason/logic/language.
God says son because God is not the flesh itself , he is the spirit manifest IN the flesh , as scripture says , God wants you to understand the difference between his form and his substance ... God is not a human being , God manifest in a human he created by making his word flesh , something we cant do , sure , but all in scripture . The Father , created the form , the form is a man , whats the most fitting title.... son , is it not? God is not the form , the man , he is the substance within it , who , created it , its all Gods , which is why it can be equal to God , known as God , its his visible image and express image of his person , his word , his name , i might have God in me now but im not all those things , there is a difference made between us as a man and Jesus as a man and of course the form and the substance .
philippians 2 will help you understand this more , and so God humbled himself it says and took on THE FORM of a servant , Jesus made claims only God can make plenty of times , he revealed himself plainly , before abraham was i am , destroy this temple in three days i will raise it up , im alpha and omega , if ye believe not i am he ye shall die in your sins , all of this says who he is , the jews were not confused by his claims , they simply didnt believe him , they said they wanna kill him because "being a man thou makest thyself God" ...clearly they knew Jesus was telling them hes the Father , and when philip was confused , he made it plain , you see me , you seen the father , i and my father are one , from henceforth ye know him and have seen him .
people can find fancy ways to explain all this , its plain and simple speech .
@@onlymyself7225 amen brother. helped me understand it more than most youtube preachers who desperately try to differentiate the father and son. meanwhile i always viewed it simply as u stated, the perfect manifestation of the lord god in the flesh. His word and essence made flesh. god did not leave heaven to dwell among us, his word was made into flesh and dwelt among us. His very own son whom he loves because in essence it is him, eternally coexistant with him, everything made through his word and spirit. that’s why jesus will send the spirit from the father as the mediator between man and god; the god man. He will send the spirit from the father. He will raise himself up. and he commands his spirit into his fathers hands. beautiful
Do I need to accept the BU understanding of God and His Annointed One Jesus who is not God and was created by God for the purpose of redemption? Will I forfeit my salvation? I cannot find an answer from a BU on this question and it is the most important question to ask. What must I do to be saved?
Have you read the New Testament yet?
@@jesusisthechristthesonofgod I have and we are saved by faith through grace in Jesus Christ. Period. Nothing to add. Not. One. Single. Work. God the Son, The Word, Jesus Christ that we see in the Bible made it abundantly clear there is no access to the Father without the Son. Did they not ask Jesus what are the works of God? And His answer could not have been more clear or more loving - Believe in the one whom He has sent.
The Jesus of BU is a created being, not God, so as a BU you really only want access to the father, the son is just a means. Yes he was the promised Messiah, yes he died for the sins of the world. But he has no power in himself. You do not worship the created. Worship belongs only to the father.
So I ask the question will the Jesus of BU still save me if I viewed him and worshiped him as God my entire life even though he is not? Or will he condemn me for not worshiping only God the Father?
@@AGSunday I can't answer for him, but I've been wondering the same too. In most churches I've been too, people pray to Jesus. Very common practice. Yet, Jesus himself taught us to pray to the Father (when you pray... our Father who is in heaven) and he also said to not ask him. but to ask the Father in his name (Joh 16:23-24). Yet the majority of christains ignore the things Jesus taught and they pray to him. Some even go a step further, they pray to the Holy Spirit. Yet, there is not even one scripture that encourages that. Why does Jesus not tell his disciples to pray to him once he's gone to be with the Father ? If he is God then that would be totally legit. Yet he tells them not to do it, but to pray to the Father. Could the same thing count for worship as well? Jesus always seem to encourage worship to the Father, not to himself or the Spirit.
Lately, if you pay attention in church (I'm going to a church where the trinity is believed), you will see christians do a lot of things that the bible tells them not to do. We come each Sunday to a church to listen to a pastor. The bible teaches something different.... that we should all participate and be part of the gathering, actively. We come to church to have worship or a worship service with a worship leader and sing a lot of songs. You don't see them doing that in the bible, it doesn't even mention worship leaders in the new testament at all. Yes, they sang, but they didn't have a worship and a serman part. Pastor's lead the church... yet in the new testament they don't do that at all. We put a lot of emphasis on the pastor, in the bible he doesn't have that emphasis at all. Go to a charismatic gathering and you will see them speak in tongues together or sing in tongues together. Yet the bible says something else. We do a lot of things contrary to the bible and scores of people are okay with it.
Perhaps worshipping Jesus falls under that same category... we're doing something that we're not supposed to do at all. We sing tons of songs about Jesus and to Jesus, but did he ever ask us to do that? We pray to him, but did he ask us to do so? Did he not always point to his Father?
@@AGSunday I'm guessing by BU you are talking about BYU? Even if I'm wrong, the things you are saying sound in alignment with Mormon teachings or at least close enough that my response will remain the same. You don't need to understand the BU understanding of anything. You need to accept the Biblical teaching. I'm talking about Bibles that come from the Textus Receptus or the NA manuscript families (KJV, ESV, NIV, NASB, etc.). Jesus is not a created being - He is the Son of God but He is also God the Son. You said, "Will the Jesus of BU still save me if I..." and the answer is, "No. The Jesus of BU is not going to save you or anyone else because that Jesus doesn't exist." The only Jesus that can save anyone is the Jesus of the Bible who is the second person of the trinity. I would point you to the book of 1 John and the following passages: 2:23, 4:2-3, 4:6, 4:13, 4:15, 5:1-2, and 5:10-12. I would also point out the crucial verse of Galatians 1:8 - "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." So every time you have a religion started when an "angel" comes and gives some prophet (Joseph Smith, Mohammad, etc.) a revelation about how the Bible is not quite correct (aka they are preaching another gospel) that angel (actually a fallen angel) is CURSED - anathema - to the lake of fire. Satan loves it when people believe in the wrong Jesus because then they will join him in hell. But it's much easier for Satan to deceive people with a false Jesus than by trying to convince them to worship Satan. This is why Muslims, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses all have a false Jesus.
*Romans 10,8-13*
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim:
*9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.*
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”
12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile- *the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,*
*13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”*
*Joel 2,32*
*And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord (YHWH) will be saved;* for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the Lord has said even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.
*Acts 10,36*
You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, *who is Lord of all.*
*Acts 4,11-12*
11 Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’
12 Salvation is found in no one else, *for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”*
*1. Kor. 1,1-2*
1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,
2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere *who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ-their Lord and ours:*
Dr. Brown, if falling to our knees to worship the son will please the father, like you say, I'm terribly confused by this if they are not separate people.
What a waste of mr. tuggy “preparation”. Read Genesis 18, YHVH intertwines with a human...
@@josegordon6302 YHVH can appear as who ever he wants and to whom ever he wants. This does not mean that he is Jesus.
You're confused. People are human beings, God is divine being. ✨
@@shelley9583 says who?
Utter nonsense
@Night Owl God is divine but his words says that he will incarnate in to man. What happened with Isaiah 9:6?
To deny him is plainly what the NT calls Anti-Christ.
Dr. Brown or anyone who believes in the trinity......please help me and answer the following question. When we get to heaven will we see three persons...will we see both God, the son and the Holy spirit or just one being on one thrown? Thank you.
@Tyler B #2 So there is a God race? When you're in the room, there will be god the father in one corner, god the son in another and god the holy spirit in a third. And we're mean to think Trinitarians are monotheistic. Yeah, right.
@@richardmorgan3938 The new testament does say that Jesus will seat at the right hand of the father after he rises on the third day.
@@shio_sakaki_the_legend392 Correct. I am not sure what your point is though.
@@richardmorgan3938 My point is that Jesus and the father and the holyspirit are one because they are of the same being. I guess i thought you meant that they are seperate but equal.
@@shio_sakaki_the_legend392 What do you mean "they are of the same being"? I don't find that teaching anywhere in scripture. No, I think they are separate and unequal:
There is one God, the Father. He is eternal.
Jesus is the Son of God, and didn't exist until he was born, although he was part of God's plan from the beginning. He is not eternal, but has immortality now. He is still termed a man (1 Tim. 2:5) in his role as mediator.
The Holy Spirit is the power of God.
It's very simple.
At 32:35 Brown quotes John 17:5, while ignoring both John 17:3 - where Jesus calls the Father "...the only true God" - and John 17:22, where Jesus says:
"The glory that you have given me *I have given to them,* that they may be one even as we are one.."
So by his logic, we're all God now 🙄
This debate is easy to win. Just ask Michael if God has a God above him. Which Michael will have to say no, there is no God above God. He will try to sly his way with working Jesus as God, but all you have to point out is Jesus calls the Father greater than himself, also the Father is his God, and lastly Jesus is always the second to the Father in heaven and on earth, yet God is not second to any. Case closed.
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Jesus humbled himself and took on flesh, he became a humble servant, and as a humble servant why wouldn't he obey his Father who is also God, when the bible tells us to honour thy Father and thy Mother, why wouldn't Jesus do so also?
When he came, he came to not abolish the law, but to fulfill the law, in which he did in part by honouring his Father and Mother.
God is God of all flesh, and when Jesus who is God became flesh and dwelt among us, (1Timothy 3:16 God was manifest in the flesh) doesn't negate that fact.
@@bradbradbury8561 the form of God means his nature. How can an infinite being become less-than infinite? How can an All-powerful being become a powerless human that Depends on another power to achieve miracles? Why is god invisible? He isn’t! It’s just that we can’t even begin to fathom his form/nature. And these verses put an Infinite being into a tiny box. Jesus has deceived all believers.
@@TheBookOfLife7 An infinite being can do anything an infinite being wants to do, thus the term infinite. The minute you say he can't they become less than infinite.
Thus when it say in Philippians 2:8 He humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross, it is totally possible to humble himself, if he couldn't humble himself he would become less than infinite.
This it only possible if you are an infinite being, and for anyone to say it couldn't happen, doesn't believe in his infinity.
When his body died, his spirit didn't die, it went back to the Father. "Into thine hands I commit my spirit" Only the body died, not the spirit. Christ is much more that a body in which he took on flesh and dwelt among us.
If an all powerful being can be limited then he ceases the be all powerful. And as Christ has said when speaking of himself and of his bodily resurrection said "I will raise it up on the third day" ~ John 2:19
Only an all powerful infinite being could do such a thing, of which Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour is.
Jesus says this in John 11:25-26 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believe in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
"Whosoever liveth and believe in me shall never die" ~Jesus
Now if a mere mortal, a human being who believes in Christ shall never die, as Jesus says in verse 26, how much more possible is it for Christ who is God himself to do so also being that he's God?
Now that is an infinite all powerful God if ever there was one, not only to raise himself up after the death of his body, but to raise ours up also.
Only God could do such a thing, of which Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour is, amen.
@@bradbradbury8561 John 5:26 “The Father has life in himself, and HE has GRANTED that same life-giving power to his Son.”
Matthew 28:18-20 “Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been Given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.”
Revelation 13:4-8 “People worshipped the dragon because HE had GIVEN authority to the beast, and they also worshipped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it? The beast was GIVEN a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise it’s AUTHORITY for forty-two months (3.5 years) It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. It was Given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was GIVEN Authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast (Matthew 24:14 & Matthew 28:19) - all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.”
Daniel 7:8 “while I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.”
Daniel 7:25 “He will speak against the Most High and oppress his people and try the change the set times AND the Laws. The Holy People will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time. (Revelation 13:5)
So do you actually know who Jesus is? Because I’m sure you do now.
Why is it that anyone who isn't a Trinitarian is automatically labelled as a "deceiver" and "doesn't have the spirit of Jesus" in them and "lacks the holy ghost". Can't we just be intellectual?
We can’t just have intellectual acknowledgement on this matter because we are to “know God”, “grow in the knowledge of Christ”, have our minds renewed, our hearts changed via the Holy Spirit from hearts of stone to fleshy hearts having God’s Law written on them. James 2:19 explicitly tells us that even the demons KNOW God and shudder. What does that mean? Well that means having just bare facts and a knowledge of God and who He is is completely different than TRULY KNOWING, TRUSTING, having saving faith in God. So that when or once we are completely regenerated we should bear fruit that reflects who we are now on the inside from this true knowledge of God. Doctrine by itself is no proof of saving faith. They(demons, Antichrists) know the truth about God, who Christ is, and who the Spirit is, but they hate it. Thus zero fruit is produced by these sorts in fact it’s the absence of these things that show one’s standing with God.
Psalm 2:12 Kiss the son, lest he be angry and you perish. We need to quickly realise Jesus is God
@T41EF Because the Bible teaches that Jesus Is God with the Father and the Holy Ghost and God is one.
@@Solomonsaysno this is a lengthy reply but with little weight to it. This is what I mean by intellectual. When we just shout a verse and have our own opinion on its meaning, we lose track instantly. What I dislike most is the dismissal of unitarians as people who lack some sort of spirit. If one is to accept a spirit or Jesus as Lord and then claim they believe now before they did that as a prerequisite then we find ourselves in a self defeating argument. Heck I can guarantee many Christians are reading this and assuimg I'm passed by Satan to say this or lack some holy ghost. We need to discuss and be intellectual.
@@MrChemenger But that verse doesn't say he is god. It doesn't even insinuate it. We need to be careful of our own interpretations
Bowing down as a sign of respect in the Bible, was not only to God, but to men too, like to Boaz, David, Samuel, Joseph, Esau, king Saul and more...
Only difference is that Jesus was worshipped, these characters however weren't
The apostles would tell men to stand up when they bowed to them because they were only men.
@@tymon1928Jesus was never worshipped. You will find not a single doxology in the New Testament addressed to Jesus. You will notice that Paul only praises God the Father, never Jesus. “Worthy are you, O lamb” in Revelation does not count because it is not worship. Even in that book only the One seated on the throne is adored and worshiped as God. He alone says “I am the Alpha and Omega”. Read Rev 22 very carefully. It clearly isn’t Jesus speaking those words.
When Jesus was dead, did he not preach to those in the underworld?
Intellectual honesty is important in debates if people desire to advance arguments. Sometimes is not clear if the speaker is even listening or understanding the opposite views to refute them.
Yeshua already sitting at the right hand of GOD, says, "MY GOD" - as 4 times in Revelation 3: 12.
Rev 3: 12
The one who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of MY GOD and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the Name of MY GOD, and the name of the city of MY GOD God the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from MY GOD, and My new Name.
If you send the same comment 3 times you are not sure
correct , the Father is the God of the flesh and blood he himself created and wants you to understand this , give glory to the substance , not the form , the spirit , not the flesh , the being , not his manifestation , the creator , not his creation ...however , the form is directly made from Gods very word and has the fulness of the Godhead within him , the only thing Jesus ever claimed to be in him is the Father , God himself , who is holy , who is a spirit , he is then of course a holy spirit and as philippians says in THE FORM of God , the form of something is not the substance of it .......................though its Gods form and not something on its own , which is why Jesus can be worshipped and has all the same titles the Father has etc. Jesus made it plain "i come in my Fathers name" . I don't know what the issue is here? MY GOD , yes , the flesh and blood is not God ... and? thats all Gods showing you by example , Jesus did everything for us by example , God humbled himself , you can fight every scripture you want , Jesus was very clear , if ye believe not I AM HE , ye shall die in your sins , i would advise you to learn what scripture hes quoting and who the IAM and HE that Jesus refers to is , because if you dont believe Jesus to be that being , which isaiah 9:6 knows he is , you're dying in your sins , because anything else is idolatry or denial of Jesus , who is the I AM HE? ...........................................it's the Father , this is why Jesus said before abraham was i AM , because Jesus is the word of God made flesh , Gods word was before abraham , and the bible says the word IS God , God manifest in the flesh timothy says ... better start studying the bible and stop listening to these wolves , they are leading you all to hell like Jesus said they would , and if this doctrines wrong , i bet you a lot of their other doctrine is wrong , stay away from these youtubers and churches , time to study the word for real and find out the truth , your souls on the line .
@onlymyself7225 I'm having alot of trouble reconciling between these two doctrines, please pray for me. I thought the "I AM" statement from Jesus was the end all be all. However, the "I AM" from exodus in the Greek septuagint is different from the "I AM" Jesus uses in John. Exodus is "ho Theos" (I believe) and in John it is "ego eimi".
@@aka.yehoshua ho theos is the greek translation for “the God” literally translated ho-the theos-god. in exodus God says to moses I am That I am, which does not mention the word ho or theos.
Jesus said "I AM the Almighty". He also said that he was on earth and in heaven at the same time.
Revelation 1:8
King James Version
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
John 3:13
King James Version
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Dr.Dale Tuggy: "Some scholars say"
Dr.Michael Brown: "The Scriptures say" He nailed it! Thank you,Dr.Brown I really admire your body of work!
YESHUA- "The Great I AM
See John 9 9 in the Greek and the passage that you referred in Greek.
@(( Christian Man )) Test Paul as a true apostle.
Joseph Smith and many other false prophets also say, "the scriptures say." You are simplifying Dr. Tuggy's postion to try and knock it down. That's a strawman argument. Dr. Tuggy referred both to scholars AND scripture as he gives a better overall context. Which is necessary part of being a good Bible student.
Tuggy is a heretic, and not too rational. He’s making a god in his own image.
AMEN! Keep spreading the Truth and the Good News!
Isaiah 9:6
“For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
This verse and prophecy clearly speaks to The Trinity and our Saviour JESUS CHRIST! ✝️✡️
Brown mentions the old "I Am" canard. What he doesn't tell you is that just about everyone in the bible says "I am" at one point or another. The whole "I am" argument is ridiculous. The explanation is too long for this format.
Exactly
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Numbers 23 -19: God is not a man, God is not a human being; his decisions will not change.
Hosea 11. I am God and not a human.
@@ibrahimalharbi3358 God created everything by himself and he has the power to do anything...so you telling me that God cannot live among men as a man?
@@hdk8727 Man is made in God's image. The relationship between a father and son on earth can be used as an image to infer back to the relationship between Jesus and his father.
@@ibrahimalharbi3358 Not a man that he should lie.
Everyone forgets to finish the sentence. And as we see of the Messiah, there was no deceit in his mouth. ~Isaiah 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
"He had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth."
God's thought, purpose, plans were revealed through his created human being Jesus. Jesus is God's agent, not God himself.
The mediator between God and man must also be both God and man! Jesus by His Blood and sacrifice bridges the gap!
What a silly meaningless statement.
1 Timothy 2:5
[5] For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus,
But for God it's good and acceptable Man jesus to be mediator🤷🏻♀️
If what you said is correct, that the mediator must be both God and man, why did Paul say specifically "the man"? Why did he not say "the God and man, Jeus Christ"? Surely he would have? Pretty important?
@glenfrazer753 I will ask you this! How is it possible that any human being is capable of not sinning ever not once in thought or in deed! Think about that for a moment! And to add another witness , read this: John 20:28 (WEBM) Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!"
@@yosefyahu4778 To answer your, question, he did not sin because of his perfect obedience. Difficult to imagine, I agree, but it's what God first sought from the first man, Adam. But he failed. The second Adam did not fail. A human who fulfilled the law by not sinning. The whole basis of the atonement is the law being fulfilled by a man. Now back to the question I asked you please. Why did Paul sepcifically say the mediator was "the man", and not help us understand he was both God and man by saying it during this key discussion?
Alright 38 minutes in, and you HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that dales intro was a lot of "cannot be, because" rather than simply using scripture to refute the trinitarian position. He spoke more than he used Gods word. And Browns opening, literally all he's USING is scripture to state his case.
Not to say Dale didn't use really good points. He did. But we didn't come here to hear dales words. But Gods.
You have to acknowledge these things.
yea, the machine-gun debate technique. It gives a great impression to the audience, while not addressing Tuggy's 6 first points.
A child without any type of Trinity contamination can explain and figure out that Jesus is not God, and that God is not Jesus; and that neither are each other.
One does not need a PhD to figure it out. One just needs a clean heart and spirit.
*John chapter 1*
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and *the Word was God.*
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
*3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.*
[...]
10 He was in the world, and *the world was made by him,* and the world knew him not.
*11 He came unto his own,* and his own received him not.
[...]
*14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,* (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
*Isaiah 9,6*
For to us *a child is born,* to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, *and his name shall be called* Wonderful Counselor, *Mighty God,* Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
*Acts 7,59*
And they stoned Stephen, *calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.*
*2. Peter 1,1*
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of *our God and Savior Jesus Christ* have received a faith as precious as ours:
*Phil 2,5-7*
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in *Christ Jesus,*
*6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,*
7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
*John 20,28-29*
28 Thomas answered him, *“My Lord and my God!”*
29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
*1. John 5,20*
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being *in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.*
*Colossians 2,9*
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
*1. Tim 3,16*
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: *God was manifest in the flesh,* justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
*Hebrew 1,8-12*
*8 But unto the Son he (God, the Father) saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.*
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; *therefore God,* even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
*10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:*
*11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;*
*12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.*
Not clear enough for you?
2:33:25_ Dr.Brown got nailed good and proper by this question..Scripture clearly states the exact opposite to Browns claim the 'son' didn't die..consequently Browns response is lame/vague skirting the actual question and he doesn't project his usual raised voice, but is rather sheepish.
Scripture is clear that Jesus is the Word of God, and the Word is God, and the Word became flesh, so He became the man Jesus Christ, and Jesus suffered in the flesh. So the person of the Son did die on the cross in His human nature. But not in His eternal, infinite, immortal divine nature.
@@swissapologetics
Wow you really are caught up in the Jesus fairy tale..
Do you also believe in King Arthur and the magic sword?
@@r0ky_M
So you make argumwnts about what scripture teaches, and when you get corrected, this is the way you react?
And pls, prove that Jesus was a fairy-tale. Always funny to see a Jesus-mythicist embarrassing himself
@@swissapologetics
Supernatural claims ARE legend/myth..the problem
is that you are gullible.
@@r0ky_M
Obviously you dont understand the difference between a claim and a proof...
Are you saying God could not do miracles, even if He exists?
Or are you claiming you can prove God doesnt exist?
Somebody please ask a trinitarian if they really believe they would have come up with the trinity on their own without somebody teaching them about it first.
Exactly
Imagine believing in a god never mentioned, described or even named in the scriptures!
So tragic to be so misled
Most people taught it never understand it and say they do out of fear
@J DV what do you mean, sorry?
th-cam.com/video/eAvYmE2YYIU/w-d-xo.html
The Bible teaches it.
Isaiah
For unto us a child is born unto us a son is given and the government shall be up on his shoulders and his name shall be called wonderful counselor, the mighty God the everlasting father, the prince of peace. Amen
Now tell me who Jesus is again.
Not God. Stop taking the lazy route of only employing the English of an original ancient Hebrew composition. It will get you nowhere with God. The epithets that are ascribed to the child born are not indicative of divinity. Also, is the Jesus “the father” now? Hm…Curious. It’s almost like you will pick and choose which epithets to take literally and which to spiritualize, since you apply this to Jesus. Was Jesus ever called “the father”? Nope. Why? Because he is called a spiritual brother in Hebrews and is implied to be so in Paul’s letter to the Galatians. You are out of your depth. Heed James’ warning: not everyone should become a teacher.
Both sides are wrong..
The concept is not hard to understand really..
Jesus is Gods son .. just as the demons said in Matthew and Mark. Jesus is made like his father just as an earthly son is like his father as stated in John 5:18... Jesus is Lord meaning master while the father is God ruler and master of all even Jesus .. Mark 15:34 Jesus calls God his God... we need to start looking at it the same we understand a father and son. Jesus was exalted by his father .. he died in our place . That is honorable to His father and it mimics God's character.. trinity doctrine is wrong. God, the father and son are different beings.. unitarian doctrine is wrong, Jesus is more than a man he is the son of God. Mark 5:17
Biblical Unitarians believe that Jesus is the son of God. Just not God the son. @7:34 mark.
@@caroldorothy4138 Thanks for sharing
Dont Unitarians still worship jesus?
Jesus is God and He became flesh (John 1,1-14). As He became flesh, the Father became His God (Ps 22,10). Because all flesh is submitted to God (Jer 32,27).
Dr Tuggy has a very strange view of Jesus' Sonship, and an actually blasphemous one-- just a man who somehow "volunteered" to be God's "only" Son. How on earth can ANY MERE MAN take on the Sonship by himself?! Strange. (BTW Hebrews says that no one takes on the honor of being the High Priest on himself. It must be given by the Father).
Volunteer is wrong. God sent his own Son, but God being his own Son of himself and 2 other people who are also God (meaning they share the same status as him yet he is their Son) is not strange?
Thanks for posting. Enjoy listening
Jesus said my father and my God
Eph 4-5 one Lord
Eph 4-6 one God
John 3-16
Father and son
God - raised him ( Jesus)
I'm going to the father
@@okhuibutala1640
Jesus is God and He became flesh (John 1,1-14). As He became flesh, the Father became His God (Ps 22,10). Because all flesh is submitted to God (Jer 32,27).
Who else agrees we really need the two wittiness to come clear some stuff up especially this
The two witnesses are not who we thought they were.
Must watch about the Two witnesses and revelation.
Check this out: th-cam.com/video/qRJ-ncor52A/w-d-xo.html
Some people think the "2 witnesses" are the Israelites/Jews and Christians/Gentiles!
Jesus already came..the "faithful and true witness" and he showed us all who his God and Father is. All these deceiving lying hypocrites like Michael Brown and James White trying to say the trinity is the truth do not know the Father and they can not hear the words of Jesus
@Abraham Mani Thanks for sharing! Was Jesus saying he was the Temple?
@Abraham Mani how many times do you have to post this same thing on comments??
Normally, posting your comment once is the accepted mode. Please don't flood the thread like this again.
Does the doctrine of the Trinity really propose that there are three that are the one God, or does it propose that the one God exists in a three-fold manner. I see a difference.
Both and also he is considered to be both God and man at the same time...a Decision made at the council of Chalcedon 451 AD. The God- man theory. You should see a difference and a very silly, absurd one at that. No one can truly explain the Trinity or even truly comprehend it, that is why it is considered a mystery even within it own camp and most ardent defenders. The argument had NEVER been layed to rest even after 2,000 yrs. Wonder Why???
Well then, who is sitting at the right hand of God, and where is the throne for the third "person" of the Holy Spirit? Just saying.
why i see always the debaters that defend CHRIST, full of the SPIRIT speaking so fluid to the point that the debate even looks unfair...is like an adult debating a little child....
Because before accepting trinity, one must throw rationality out of the window and accept emotional feelings. I agree with you. I see that too. They are too emotional rather than talking in a scholarly way. But it's not their fault. Actually they can't rationally about trinity which is itself irrational concept. Even people gets hyped when they are drunk or on drugs. Christian debaters are like them.
The meek shall inherit the earth
@@One-rr8um I'm concerned that you may have exalted your human rationality above God and his Word. He is not to be made a slave to your understanding, but your understanding is to be made subject to Him.
God is not irrational and he's very plain about his own limitations and attributes throughout the Bible. At some point if he was 3 people then he would have brought it up.
@@dutch1995 The level of hubris it takes to assert what God would or wouldnt do is astounding.
Start of presentation/debate 4:00 you're welcome
Wanna smell my fart??
You wanted likes. And only got 1.
Why? Because we can fast forward to it ourselves. But thanks anyway.
@@DjSostre7nah lots of comments like these always get lots of likes just not here that doesn’t mean they all don’t hush
М. Brown's arguments are very weak. Moses is called God in Ex. 7:1. Is Moses God?
Hebrews 1:8 quotes Psalms where the king is called God. How many Gods are there for Dr. Brown?
Moses is said to be "like God" in Exod 7:1, he is not "called God." BTW, this is not new, Gen 1:26-27f
@@drcdeane The word "like" doesn't exist in the text. It was added. Gen. 1:26 doesn't mention Jesus. Jesus never said: I took place in the creation of the world.
@@milkshake5_-.m that king in Psalm 45 is Jesus. That's why Paul applies Psalm 45 to Jesus in Hebrews 1:8-9. Where we see the Father calling Jesus God.
Is Moses actually called God, or are you referring to his interaction with Pharaoh where God told Moses....You SHALL be as God to Pharaoh and Aaron shall be to you a prophet?
ALL Dr Brown has to do to destroy his non argument is refer him to Jesus' prayer John chapter 17. 5....FATHER glorify me thine OWN self WITH the SAME glory which I had with thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
Dr. Tuggy is very confused,whenever he is cornered he resorts to saying it's Dr. Brown who is misinterpreting the verse.
Dr. Brown had the spirit of God with him,on the other hand, Dr. Tuggy is struggling to answer very simple questions.
I think Brown explained everything correctly. Tuggy on the hand, is teaching a false gospel.
Dr. Brown, I take off my Hat for you.
1:34:32 its verses 11 to 13, Dr. Brown misread his notes or jotted it down wrong, but the prayer starts in verse 11.
The problem with Tuggy's argument is that he likes to argue from a philosophical view. Dr. Brown argued strictly from a Biblical perspective. You will not win a theological debate with philosophy- Colossians: 2:8 "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ."
difference is,brown is commiting something called gish gallop,meanwhile tuggy is quoting all the verses essentially needed for this topic @@NephilimSlayer801
Glory to the triune God
That makes absolutely no sense. It is incomprehensible and not at all biblical.
Why you giving Glory to something neither Jesus or the Apostles gave any glory to?
That's called an idol.
John's Gospel makes it clear that the Logos never had a beginning. "In the beginning was the word.....The imperfect, indicative, active third person singular to be verb "Was, ἦν" uncontrovertibly is a continuous past tense. The prepositional phrase "In beginning Ἐν ἀρχῇ is locative. What John is saying, according words and the grammar, is that the word already was there prior to anything which had a beginning. Also note what John says in verse 3 of the same chapter, "All things came into existence through him and without him not one thing has come into existence, which has come into existence." Dr. Tuggy is saying that God the Father must have created the word, Jesus, but this is impossible because as VS one states that the word never had a beginning and that EVERYTHING which exist was created through him. If everything was created through him, could he have had a part in creating himself? Paul states the same (Col. 1) only he uses the definite article "All things" to make it crystal clear. He also borrowed this phrase from earlier Greek writings. The readers knew absolutely what John and Paul was saying. You can say you don't believe it, but you can't say that is not what it says.
Absolutely this debate is amazing,we love what we have learned and our many questions have been answered thankYou 🙏
dr brown has dedicated his to studying the word of God thank God for teachers like these .
I respect Dr. Brown. Great teacher.
Dr brown is the absolute best
You don't say - but I beg to differ. He is all over the place - what confusion!!
@@priscillajervey1947 Well it is all over the place in the scriptures. But you all are the last days christians who spend a lot of time in the world and in worldliness but wants to understand this Triune nature of the living God. Father,Son, Holy Spirit. The word and eyewitness was given to our blessed appossles who had gone before us. And that's why when we study the bible we search through the their report of what they saw and what was given to them. Do here John he said they're three that bares record in heaven. And again he said in the beginning was the word. And the word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. He that was with God is his blessed SON. Thou shalt not suffer thy Holy One to see curruption. Father glorify me with the glory I had with you from the beginning. Oneness philosophy debunked. That why I quote only what my big brothers wrote because they were eye witness to these accounts. These modern socalled prophet, pastor, evangelist, appossles, in modern times will stand before the Lord for blasphemy and unbelief.
I found this debate to be very informative. I have accepted Jesus Christ as my messiah and I love him so much. He is my way to God and to his Kingdom. I think The Unitarian approach is aligned with the Torah and the Ten Commandments. I am humbled and confused and looking forward to eternal learning and education about God. I do feel confident that God is one. Maybe God’s word became flesh and that is also aligned with genesis chapter one. God says and it is created. Thank you so much for a very good meaningful debate. ❤❤❤😊😊😊🎉🎉🎉
That’s crazy
With respect to ”maybe God’s Word became flesh” doesn’t sound like you’re a believer in Christ because that’s who Christ is. So you’d have to believe it is so, not maybe so. Once you determine that, then you have to concede to Him being God, because the place where scripture says “The Word became flesh” also says “The Word was God”.
Dr. Tuggy, you are not the one who separate between Jesus and God, THE WORD OF GOD SEPARATE THEM!
Dale Tuggy argues that Jesus is not divine because Colossians 1, John 1:3 and 1 Corinthians 8:6 say all things were made ‘through’ Jesus and Dale Tuggy says that word means Jesus was an instrument and that the Father is the ultimate source and therefore the real God.
The Greek word in Colossians 1, John 1:3 and 1 Corinthians 8:6 which is translated as ‘through’ is: διά
This argument by Dale Tuggy can easily be shown to be nonsense and false by Romans 11:36 where it says all things are made ‘through’ (same Greek word: διά ) God the Father/Yahweh.
Therefore, according to Dale Tuggy, if he’s going to be consistent, the use of that exact same word ‘through/διά’ in Romans 11:36 must mean God the Father was an instrument used by someone else. This is nonsense.
The Greek word ‘διά’ is also sometimes translated simply as ‘by’.
This argument by Dale Tuggy either shows his ignorance of this, or he’s being dishonest by concealing this information which would destroy his argument. Neither of those is good.
Ooh, if only they had invited you to debate, too!😂
Modalist Protestant heretics like Dr. Brown are the reason why Tuggy exists. This clown embarrasses himself not knowing who are the persons who are the subjects in the verses he quoted & constantly blasphemes the Father YHVH. Despicable...
A great point, brother.
Both Brown & Tuggy are heretics, so stop being 1 sided. How about attacking Protestant Brown on his Modalist heresy & blasphemy against the Father or ignorance of Scripture?
@@Jrce11 John 17:3
Dr. Brown CLEARLY won the debate..... But honestly, are any of us truly learning?? Are we actually taking notes and CHOOSING Wich side is correct, not bc it sounds good, but bbc is true..... ???
I clearly choose our God ! The Holy Trinity! Thank De. BROWN, for helping me and my family understand the beautiful trinity, and it's teachings tru out the WHOLE Bible! 💕
Yes,im trinitarian
clear to you, not to me.
@@Veritas-dq2hs why
@@christopheracosta8398 Because it's nonsense, pagan, breaks all rules of language, and most of all NOT biblical.
@@Thedisciplemike how did you come to that conclusion??😃
This really doesn’t have to be that difficult at all, let’s try and keep things real simple.
1st /and foremost..... who did God the FATHER sayJessus Christ was.....
MATT 3 vr 17...
“This is my beloved (SON )in whom I am well - pleased.”
Who did Jesus the Christ say he was ...
Jhon 10 vr 36....
“Because I said, I am the(SON )of God.”
Who did the demons say Jesus the Christ was....
MATT 8 vr 29....
“What business do we have with each other, (SON )of God”
Who did Simon Peter believe Jesus the Christ was ....
MATT 16 vr 16 -17...
Simon Peter answered and said “ you are the Christ, the (SON )of the living God”
2nd/ who did Jesus the Christ say his Father was .....
Jhon 17 vr 1 -3.....
“ this is eternal life that they may know you, the only (TRUE )God (AND )Jesus Christ, whom (YOU )have sent”
So we see the Son (OF) God,confess his Father is the only (TRUE )God so if Jesus is (THE)God in the flesh, and his father is the only( TRUE) God ..... what God dose this make Jesus the Christ ?
Now I think so far this has been pretty simple and quite biblical in presentation. Now the only answer I have ever had from a trinitarian on the above question in Jhon 17 vr 3, is to ASSUME and I say ASSUME ..... that this was Jesus the Christ, praying to the father with in his human nature’,and not his God one, to set the example of how we are to pray to the true God..But this Im afraid isn’t good enough by simply trying to concoct an un biblical two natured Christ. No such thing is ever taught in scripture without digging and twisting other bible verses. The truth is, a lie has to be created to answer this question,
3rd/ lets say for arguments sake, Jesus the Christ did have a God nature and a human nature (ie) (the God man) ...when Christ was crucified and died, his human nature perished along with him....... 1 pet 3 vr 18.... Jesus the Christ was made alive in the spirit......so now must be fully GOD, so he was no longer dependant on his father in an earthly sense of Jhon 17 vr 3...... but yet he still spoke of his father as his God in Jhon 20 vr 17, after his resurrection ????
Also Jhon the disciple ,who Christ, loved much, a very spiritual man as can be seen in his gospel writings, fully understood this whilst writing the book of revelation .... Jesus the Christ now standing at the fathers right hand ACTS 7 :55 ... still has a father and God in heaven REV 1 vr 6......so, so much for Christ only acknowledging the only true God whilst he was in human flesh !!!!
The bible is very clear... crystal clear, that the son ( Jesus the Christ) has a father ( THE GOD) and ( THE GOD ) is the sons (GOD)....so to make The son equal with the father, “co equal and always existed “..... is to Have Two Gods co exist along side each other.... which categorically makes one of this belief a polytheist....... there is absolutely no way around this without conjuring up another lie, and teaching they are both one and the same person in a triune God head, an ASSUMPTION That has not and cannot be proven through scripture, it’s a preconceived idea that man has moulded into the bible, and force fitted it with twisted scripture!!!...... there’s one GOD And one. Son 1 CORINTHIANS 8 :6......
It’s that simple ... dose it really need all theses apologists trying to prove or disprove something that clearly proves itself through the fathers and Christ’s very own words ....????
Ben Watkins John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Jesus is both the son of God the Father and always existed inside the Godhead with the Holy Spirit.
He’s also a separate person.
Just like a father and son relationship on earth, but they are God.. why Jesus is the only Begotten Son and we are all adopted in.
The Father spoke himself into existence in a form and through that physical form he used his word to produce all things.
At the end God will have created a kingdom for his self where he is rightfully worshiped as God and Savior and Lord by a people who were like him with the knowledge of good and evil yet choose to seek holiness. 🙏🏻
*Tveezy Stuntz*
Thank you for your reply.
But in a respectful manner, I don’t feel that your response,in any way answers my above presentation.
1/ jhon 17:3.
Jesus whilst in his flesh ,prays to the “ONLY TRUE GOD” .....
Jhon 20:17.
A resurrected Jesus, confesses he has a “GOD and FATHER”he is ascending to.
Rev1:6,
Tells us the son has a “FATHER and GOD in heaven”.
Now keeping things simple for the moment.... In the light of the above biblical verses. Christ has both a GOD and FATHER in the heavens.
So taking the scripture as it presents itself, Christ clearly had a FATHER and GOD whilst on earth..... he clearly had a FATHER and GOD he was ascending to ... and it clearly says he is in heaven with his FATHER and GOD.
How can anyone possibly miss interpret the meaning of the above verses.?? Dose Christ have a FATHER and GOD, or not ??????
So to except your presentation of jhon 1 vr 1....would mean one has to except The son and THE God to be same beings, this totally contradicts
The biblical presentation of THE GOD and His SON in the above verses.
If they are the same beings......this would mean ....................................
The SON cannot really be the FATHER.... and the FATHER cannot really be the SON .... unless there is role play involved, ( ie) GOD plays the role of a son which would mean the SON dose not literally exist.... and so the FATHER can’t literally exist...... which leads one to assume only GOD exists with no literal SON and the son has no literal FATHER ..... and this I’m afraid leads one into the warning of 1 jhon 4:3...... one has to confess CHRIST came in the flesh, not YEHOVAH , come in the flesh...... also .... it denies the true father and son relationship by diminishing it to a role play 1 jhon 2 : 22 :23.
Ben Watkins only respect over here too brother!
Can you tell me interpretation of John 1:1 and John 1:14?
If we agree Jesus is the Word and the Word came in flesh and the Word was God, how does that fit into your understanding of the Word and God being completely separate? I believe my understanding is the correct understanding simply because it makes sense in light of all verses not just some of them.
*Tveezy Stuntz*
To my understanding the “word “and “THE GOD “are not of equal status in Jhon’s writings....... my reasons for this are as follows......
“In the beginning was the word = logos, and the word = logos .... was toward THE God = ho Theo’s ....and god = Theo’s was the word = logos.
Theo’s just means “god”..... it’s a Greek word for “god” .... God is a title and only has a meaning to an individual when the individual attaches a person or meaning to it ...... so in the context of Jhon’s writings..... we understand he is a devout Jew and worships the Hebrew God YEHOVAH ... so in his Greek writing he would express his YEHOVAH .... by penning THE GOD = ho Theo’s.. by inserting the definite article “THE” before Theo’s..... which was freely at his disposal in Greek grammar.
Now when Jhon pens “and the word was god “ .... he drops the definite article “THE” and just pens Theo’s instead of ho Theo’s ... “god instead of THE GOD”.... and this has a direct meaning to his interpretation of the word god = Theo’s.... without his definite article we are back to just” god” ... and as we have seen god = Theo’s can mean anything ,unless the one writing expresses different.... and jhon here is clearly expressing the difference between ho Theo’s and just Theo’s.....THE GOD and god..... so when jhon says “ and god was the word” he is not saying”THE GOD “was the word..
Or that is what he would of written.
So this leads us to what did Jhon mean when he penned “god was the word,” without the definite article “THE”.. this can rightly be expressed as “a god”..or the word was divine by nature ...seeing the “word” is only a ( thing or it) it needs the writer to express what he actually means by the word= logos ..... Jhon could be referring to the word as the son in REV 19 :13.... (but remembering with out the definite article the son is not” THE GOD”) but could be ( a begotten god ) jhon 1 vr 18.... and also remembering the expression of the “ word “ was towards THE God is in every way expressing the word is separate to THE GOD, and this word becomes flesh in jhon 1 vr 14.
Also as The “ word “ = logos can mean
Gods “thought or plan”...this dose not mean the “ word “ logos is THE GOD himself ... but it can mean it’s THE GODS divine plan and thought in his mind ... and THE GODs plan or thought
Was to come into existence at Jhon 1vr 14.... meaning that his plan the logos was always towards him in the future ... rather like the expression “ the lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world “ REV 13 vr 8...... we know Christ was not slain before the foundation of the world, but we understand it was a thought / plan in Gods mind that was to happen at a future date ... ( ie) it was always toward him.....
And to finish in jhon 1 vr 2.... it says and (he) which could be a begotten god Theo’s ....was towardsTHE GOD = ho Theo’s ... once again Jhon draws the distinction between god =Theo’s and THE GOD = ho Theo’s.
Or if we are to interpret the word = logos as a thought or plan.... in vr 2 Autos =( HE ) can rightly be rendered Autos = ( IT) the word/ thought / plan etc...towards THE GOD.
Either way ,the word Theo’s is never equal to ho Theo’s in this context.
So the first guy decided he was gonna totally ignore John 1??
And Genesis 1.
One of the audience there asked a question to Micheal Brown (@ 2.02.02). The question was how come Jesus did not know the hour if he was God (God the Son). Brown suddenly sticked on man Jesus and said man Jesus did not know the hour. But in the verse Jesus said neither angels nor the "son" can know the hour. For that question, Brown chooses to focus on "man Jesus", but same Dr. Brown denied Son Jesus's death because he believes "Son" is divine God and cannot die, so "man Jesus" could die only. But to the new question he focused on "man Jesus", instead of "son" (according to him divine part of Jesus), however in the verse it is said, "son can not know the hour". In fact, Brown's theology is crushed because he says that "son Jesus" cannot die since" son Jesus" is God part of Jesus, on the other hand, Brown says "son Jesus" cannot know the hour because he is a man.... Confusion...
@Saint Belligerant Yes, it is sad. I was doing the same thing, ignoring the other thing since I was told and taught trinitarian idea. But there was always questions since it was not all things summed up. So I decided to study all the written words in the bible as it is.
Question: is Jesus a liar? (Please be careful how you answer, I do not want you to blaspheme).
@@achsevin6505 I guess the one who should answer to your question is not us, but trinitarian friends. To us Jesus never lied, he always said he is servant son of God, Messiah. He was one man who has been given authority and a mission by God. He said his a God, he said he has a God is the same God of us, both his and our Heavenly Father (John 17:3, 20:17).
Tuğba Erdal where in Scripture does it say He is "a god"?
@@achsevin6505 Nowhere. I am not the one who claim that Jesus is God. He is god as it is written in Psalms 82:6, sons of God called as "el" in hebrew "a god" in English, but not in literal meaning. I am not a trinitarian. I reject the idea of God's being more than one person or personality. I am not amodelist. I am not a Jehovah Witness. I am not a Mormon, I am not a Muslim. I just a Christian which means follower of Christ, I believe what he said, there is one only true God that is only Heavenly Father (John 17:3), and this Heavenly Father who is only treu God is both his and our God (John 20:17). I am a unitarian christian.
Debates are painful to watch sometimes. I think it would be cool to hear a debater say something like, "I understand how you could see that..." or "that makes sense but this is why I disagree..." Instead, it seems like no one will give an inch of logic to the other side.
Dr/ Brown couldn't agree with falseness.
What bothers me is, why did God allow these few passages that caused this doctrine to become so divisive? Why wasn't the Nician council discussed ? Imagine the winners murdering the losers! That speaks volumes of the evil of the winer's.
@@johngravinese2521 in those days there were some issues going on, people got kill just because they thought different. Just by saying "ok , but what about " dead.
@@johngravinese2521 hi there, just out of curiosity did you ever research the truth about what led up to the council in Nicea and what took place, who the members were ,etc?
Reason I ask is because I always hear people speak about this council but rarely does it seem they know anything about it. Its just proposed that the Trinity was made up etc. I used to believe this before I actually researched in depth. Just curious if you did as well.
@@johngravinese2521 Maybe God wanted us to look closer at this. His reasoning is beyond what we can comprehend. Ask God why these things happen, he may or may not answer. It is for us to seek his guidance, to be closer to God.
DEUTERONOMY 18:15. Explains Jesus Speaking AS GOD .
JESUS IS NOT MENTIONED ONCE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT...WHERE DID YOU GET THAT NONSENSE FROM THAT HE IS?
j w
The WORD YHWH Gen. 15:1,4
The HOLY ONE of Israel. Isa. 55:5
Yeshuah Ps 62:1
Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty GOD, the Prince of Peace. Isa. 9:6
The SON of GOD. Dan.3:25
Arm of the LORD. Isa. 53:1, Ezek. 4:7
YHWH in it's pictoghaph form "nail behold hand behold"
Born out of Bethlehem a Ruler from old from everlasting. Mic. 5:2
@@nasdaqua You need to read the bible and understand context. Jesus doesn't need to appear by his name to be in order for him to actually exist then
@@The-Beyonder REALLY? i NEED TO READ THE BIBLE, HUH? what about all the great Rabbinic scholars of past and present who are more familiar with the Bible than you or i ever will be.. specifically, the OT. Have you ever read or heard of the Rambam( Machmonides)? how about the Ramban ( Nachmonides)? how about The Bal Shem Tov? How about Ibz Ezra? How about Rashi? How about Rabbi Isaac Luria? Hummm?? Have you watched and listened to Rabbi Tovia Singer , Rabbi Michael Skobac, Rabbi Manis Friedman VIDEOS?? Hummm?? eVERYONE ONE OF THESE PEOPLE REJECT JC AS MESSIAH... Don't lecture me when you're so deficient in Hebraic knowledge...You CAN'T EVEN READ HEBREW.. So, here's to you my friend from outer space... JESUS IS THE FALSE MESSIAH.
@@nasdaqua Here I was thinking this was gonna be a good reply with all that text, but throughout that entire reply all you did was appeal to authority lol. Your entire argument is invalidated, FAIL. Try again
When they delete your comments, instead of refuting them, you know your right. ~Jesus is God
Jesus Christ is GOD manifest in the Flesh. But God is still One thats the mystery and its not given to everyone to understand the mystery.
@Jonathan Singleton Well it certainly is not with you lol. If you believe the Son is not God then you are an Idol worshipper if you worship him. No human being could atone for sins of Man-kind and therefore you do not have salvation my friend.
These are the facts & questions you need to study: The only true God is the Father (Jn. 17:5). Jesus is God (2 Pet. 1:1-2, etc). According to Phil 2:6, my Lord Jesus Christ is equal to God (Father).
You cannot be equal to yourself. You are equal with another.
There is only one God & yet Jesus is equal to the Father. How could that be? This is one of the key!
If Jesus is the Father & Jesus died then the Father died? That cannot be! Then, who died? Another key!
My Lord Jesus’ death was real! (1 Cor. 15:1-18)
If Jesus is God, who died? If we refer to 1 Peter 3:18d, .. killed in the flesh. What does that mean?
How is the Lord Jesus the true God (1 Jn. 5:20) and then in Jn 17:3, when he was praying to the Father, the Lord Jesus declares the Father to be “the only true God”?
How are they equal?
Truly, my Lord Jesus Christ is the mystery of God (YHVH)!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (Joh 1:1-3) LET ME REPEAT: NOTHING WAS MADE THAT WAS MADE! NOTHING! SO WHO EXISTED BEFORE ALL CREATION CAME TO BE? YAHUSHUAH HA MACHIACH!
Why the word is in capital w? Why the word is referred as him?
The word of God, the Logos. No need to assume that John meant Jesus existed as a conscious being before he was conceived.
@@Eclectifying Jesus didn't have part in the creation too, if you don't know.
Deut 18: 18 -19 YHWH clears up Jesus being the word misunderstanding. God put His word inside Jesus to speak on His behalf. Jesus is not the word literally. Genesis 1, God alone, singular, created everything through speaking His word.
Isaiah 44, 45 God alone created everything.
God didn't use Jesus to speak his word until he was born. Hebrews 1. If you say that Jesus is the Word and that he is in the old testament speaking for/as God, then you are saying scripture is wrong and your interpretation is right.
@@jawnatutorow Jesus does ALL the things that only God can do! He creates the world, fights Israel's battles, forgives sins, raises from the dead, gives sight to the blind, causes the lame to walk, destroys the antichrist, need I say more? Look, if a man has a son, is that son any less human than the father even though he is subject to the father? Messiah YAHushuah is of the Father, from the bosom of God the Father, he is NOT a created being. John 1:3 clearly states that NOTHING that was made was made apart from Him! The flesh, the living temple was created and formed within Miriam, this is why it is said: "A body you have prepared for me." (Hebrews 10:5) And also: "Destroy this temple and I WILL RAISE IT UP AFTER THREE DAYS." Here is more witness from the book of Hebrews: (Hebrews 1:1-3 UKJV) God, who at several times and in divers manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word (o. rhema) of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: Notice that a distinction is made between the prophets and God's beloved Son! I suggest you all pray and read the book of Hebrews. YAH bless.
Can someone show me in the Bible where 3 persons are described as one being? Not just one but one being? Thanks.
i can, right here, look now, dummy
@Wrong doctrine Silly rabbit tricks are for kids.
So the Bible has to say something specifically to prove it exists ? Illogical
@@CyprusHot It has to say it for us to have the authority to repeat it *as truth.*
Hermes Huguet learn to read - I said does it have to be SPECIFIC. God has his way. And his way isn’t according to you ! Use your brain
1:21:45 Dr. Tuggy says: "I'm taking those two verses and making them fit in...." Nuff said! Dr. Tuggy does not want to take the Bible at Face value! He is willingly ignorant of the simple truths lined out in Scripture! Did not the Saducees and Pharisees do the same thing to Jesus, claiming to see/understand while denying the Word of YAH?
Do you want the bible at face value yourself or rather follow what men say? "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time - 1 Tim 2:5-6" That's what the bible calls Jesus, a man, not God or god-man or whatever diety they make him out to be. That's not the only place where Jesus is refered to as a man.
Christians have become very skilled at picking verses to back up their theories, instead of allowing the bible to form their theory. Why does Paul still call Jesus a man? Why does the whole book of acts refer to Jesus as a man and never once as a god? Why is the trinity never once preached in the book of acts, but it continually portrays that there is one God, the Father and one man that He has choses as His messiah?
Regardless of what these two man debate, we must take the whole council of God into account and scripture is clear, there is but One God and not three. Three persons will never be one, they will always be three, but there is only One God and there is one lord, the man Jesus the Messiah.
It's interesting how you only accuse Dr Tuggy of making scriptures fit... at least he's honest enough to mention it. Dr. Brown tries to fit in many scriptures. By linking verses and thoughts of the bible you can make it say anything you want, but if it goes against the clear written scriptures, the linking and thoughts must be subject to the written truth. The clear written truth is that there is one God and one person standing between that God mankind, the man Jesus Christ.
@@benjamina6915 yes! I take YAH's word at face value and consider the whole counsel of YAH's Word! Thomas replied: "My Lord and my God!" Jn 20:28. Also, the Rock that led us up out from Mitzratim is Christ! 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (WEBM) Now I would not have you ignorant, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
and were all immersed into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
and all ate the same spiritual food;
and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Messiah. Is YAHoshuah your God like Thomas says? As the scripture says! ALL that was created was created by Him and for Him! And NOTHING that has been created has been created apart from Him! I'll ask you a question! The words of the Father, are they Spirit? Are they created or a part of Him?
@@yosefyahu4778 God is Spirit and we must worship Him in spirit and in truth. God is not a man, that He should lie. God is eternal, immutable, unchangeable... yet you have Him change into a man and then let him die. Eternal, immutable, unchangeable means you can't turn into another being and definitely means you cannot taste death.
@@benjamina6915 The Son of God tabernacled among us. If the Son of God wishes to inhabit a body of flesh who are you to deny Him? Who was it who stood in bodily form before Abraham in the Sodom and Gomorrah passage, was it the Father or was it the Son? Exodus 15:3 (WEBM) YHWH is a man of war. YHWH is his name. What is a man? What does made in the image of Elohim mean?
@@yosefyahu4778 no one is denying Jesus a body of flesh and that's not the discussion at all. Unfortunately you are like many people defending the trinity... not listening to the other party and trying to derail the discussion by trying to make it revolve around non issues and not discussing the heart of the matter, but trivial made up things instead. Sorry, I'm not going there.
Colossians 2:15 (ESV)
He (Jesus) disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them...
Dr. Tuggy - thank you so much for this! Dr. Brown is throwing scriptures out, but is not sound in his arguments on a number of points. I am not sure Dr. Brown really even makes a good Trinitarian. Some of his arguing clearly is laced with Sabellianism - Most people are impressed with his throwing up a lot of scriptures and don't realize how unsound Brown actually is. If I were a Trinitarian, I would not depend on Brown for understanding of these things.
Sounds like your a blind sheep.
I disagree
Dr tuggy did terrible. But that’s mostly because scripture refutes his downgrading of Jesus and scripture.
I would urge you not to take away glory from Jesus.
@Dom the best yes. Also God incarnate
@Dom the best your calling the Bible blasphemous then.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (UKJV) Moreover, brethren, I would not that all of you should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
And did all eat the same spiritual food;
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
You cannot say that Messiah did not pre-exist when the scriptures CLEARLY states the opposite!
The spirit that dwells in man is not a “spirit being” or an “immortal soul” that inhabits the body. Rather, it is a spiritual component that imparts the power of thought, intellect and consciousness with self-identity: “But there is a spirit in man and the inspiration of the Almighty gives them understanding” (Job 32:8). The apostle Paul wrote, “For who among men understands the things of man except by the spirit of man which is in him?” (I Cor. 2:11).
The spirit of man is different from what the Bible calls the “soul.” The word “soul” is translated from the Hebrew nephesh, which refers to physical life, whether human or animal. In many occurrences, nephesh is translated “creature” or “life” (Gen. 1:20-21, 24, 30; 2:19; 9:4-5, 10, 12, 15-16). When translated “soul,” it refers to the physical life and strength of a human being (Gen. 2:7; Ex. 1:5; Lev. 23:30; Deut. 4:29; Josh. 11:11; Ezek. 13:18-19; 18:4, 20). Job 34:14 and Isaiah 42:5 demonstrate that humans possess both the breath of life and the spirit of man. It is important to understand that even with the addition of the human spirit, it is the whole physical and spiritual package that makes up the person-the soul. The whole person is a soul-not has a soul. Neither the soul nor the human spirit retain any consciousness after death (Psa. 146:4).
When a person dies, his or her conscious thoughts cease, and the body returns to dust (Gen. 3:9; Psa. 6:5; Eccl. 9:10; Isa. 38:18). Unlike the soul, however, which ends with the death of the body, the spirit in man returns to God when a person dies (Eccl. 12:7). - What am I getting at here? Elohim Most High is so far beyond our limited understanding when it comes to His makeup or composition. If we who are created in the image of God are made up of multiple components and yet are one being why can't God be made of multiple components?
Dr Brown was more convincing using truth of scripture. Dr Tuggy struggled using man made theory which didn't make sense, because he knows scripture doesn't support his argument.
@Lori Dann Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?
Truth of what scripture, all I hear a bunch of nonsense
So God died on the cross?
The trinity is man made
@Abraham Mani Yes it is very that Jesus is the only way to salvation but he is not God (Jehovah/Yahweh). He is his son. The Trinity is a false doctrine bro.
And without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness, God was manifested in the flesh...1 Tim 3:16
Mistranslation even by your hero Michael Brown n James white boy White
@Corey: My bible doesn't say that in 1 Tim 3:16 [ depends which bible you are reading ]
@@david2358 kjv
@@david2358 what version are you reading?
The word ‘God ‘ was added in the eighth century
The text says ‘who’ was manifest in the flesh!
Thank you Dr.Brown! I am currently trying to show my wife how the trinity is true and this is awesome testiment to that.
40 minutes and He Dr Brown already destroyed the debate hahahahahaah
Does Jesus know the hour? No. But you say he does?? Y’all really believe what you want to believe instead of listening to our master Jesus.
@@bstlybengali ok explain this passage then...what does jesus means?
@@bstlybengali Jesus said what he said while he was human on earth. You don't think he does now, after returning to Haven?
Jesus came from heaven because God is literally His Father, He WILL be a son to me and I WILL be a Father to Him, it is the words of Christ that edify ALL others not the other way around and God does not have a God, but Jesus does, and the only way to have eternal life is to know His God is the ONLY TRUE GOD
This idea that a singular verb refers to both the Father and the Son simultaneously is an egregious error, which is the result of bad scholarship and wishful thinking.
the bigger problem is humans imposing their earthly logic and understanding into heavenly things, rather than accepting God's description of Himself.
I wish dr. Tuggy would've used 1 chronicles 29:20 to support the kind of worship Jesus received...
And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.
@EOTJ APOLOGETICS please prove what u claimed by using any hermeneutical approach. U obviously dont understand near eastern culture or ethics. Bowing down or prostrating one self is an act of homage and reverence one gives to someone in a higher place. The west sees such action as a form of worship. And so western scholars confuse themselves and refuse to see Jesus getting the same type of reverence given to him. Instead would rather say he was being worshipped with the same religious intent as YHWH himself. Even when tempted in the wilderness, Jesus quoted that one should worship and serve God only. He never told his tempter to worship him. Even the demons believe God is one and they tremble. Trinitarians have no fear of God believing he is 3. Please study both Greek words and forms of worship and how its used in all contexts when everyone bows the knee to Jesus. After you've done a thorough study, come back to me and we will discuss it. David was revered because he was Gods Christ/Messiah (anointed one) and king. So is Jesus but with much higher authority... seated at Gods right hand. Jesus deserves praise and adoration to the glory of God the Father who made him and anointed him. Jesus entire ministry was aimed to bring peace between us and our Creator through himself alone. One mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ.
@@chinochris3181 very well said
@EOTJ APOLOGETICS I appreciate ur kind demeanor. As a Greek student, what exactly is proskuneo and how is it used in the context of rev 5? I posted the Hebrew equivalent to proskuneo by citing 1 Chronicle 29:20. Both subjects, whether God and king, or God and Lamb are both being bowed down to in proskuneo (worship).
Also all creation bows down to Jesus because he is "firstborn" (preeminent) over all creation. And he is worthy of praise and proskuneo. Nowhere in the text does it indicate that because Jesus was not categorized with the other creation that he himself is not created. You are inserting your theology into the plain reading of the text. Not very hermeneutical in your approach sir.
Please reexamine the 1 chronicles 29 passage and compare it to rev 5. There is virtually no difference in the manner "worship" is used in both contexts...
@@chinochris3181 "The word "proskuneo" means "to kiss the hand, bow down before, show obeisance, to worship." Since the Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus is God, they maintain that He is not to be worshipped. So, how does the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society translate the word "proskuneo" in their Greek New Testament in reference to Jesus and other objects of adoration? The NWT nevertranslates the word into "worship" when it references Jesus. It does, however, render the word as "worship" regarding the devil, the dragon, the beast, the image, demons, idols, and an angel. Of course, they correctly translate it as "worship" when it deals with God.
Is the New World Translation biased against worshipping Jesus? It would surely seem so and especially since the NASB, NIV, KJV, NKJV, etc., all translate the word as "worship" in reference to Jesus."
AND
"First of all, 1 Chron. 29:20 obviously cannot mean that David was worshiped equally with God. This would be blasphemy. Therefore, it is best to translate the Hebrew word shachah as "pay homage" or "bow down" as is attested to by other translations.
"Then David said to all the assembly, "Now bless the Lord your God." And all the assembly blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed low and did homage to the Lord and to the king," (NASB)."Then David said to the whole assembly, "Praise the LORD your God." So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king," (NIV)."Then David said to all the assembly, "Now bless the Lord your God." So all the assembly blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and prostrated themselves before the Lord and the king," (NKJV)."Then David said to all the assembly, "Bless the Lord your God." And all the assembly blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and paid homage to the Lord and to the king," (ESV).
Is it legitimate to translate the verse this way? Yes it is because it is consistent with Hebrew dictionaries which tell us that the word shachah can mean worship, bow down, obeisance, reverence, fall down, crouch, prostrate oneself, (Enhanced Strong's Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995.) See the same thing stated in The Abridged Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew-English Lexicon of the Old Testament, Richard Whitaker, Editor, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997). This would easily demonstrate that David was not being worshiped. Instead, homage was being paid to him as was also being paid to God--though, of course, there is no confusion about who is God and who is not."
Moreover, when the Ancient Days is explicitly shown sharing his divinity with the "one like a son of man" (keep in mind that "like" indicates that the being isn't human: it usually signifies angels, but no angel would be given shared divinity with YHWH, and this is further clarified by Hebrews 1) the word used for "worship" is pelach, which is a different Hebrew word the one that appears in the scene with David. This means that the word pelach is in some way directly connected to divinity, unlike other words that could have been chosen.
The point being, mixing New Testament texts with Old Testament texts without discernment has many many problems to it.
@@blanktrigger8863 the problem is you are also taking bias just as JWs concerning shachah or proskuneo. U accuse JWs for changing the meaning of worship when it concerns Christ. But u have no problem when trinitarians change the meaning to suit worship to Christ.
Context always determines the use of the word. U said correctly that "only" God receives worship. There is only one God, YHWH (deut 6:4). So only God receives religious worship. if anyone else besides YHWH is receiving shachah/proskuneo a long with him, they are being shown reverence. The english translation of Hebrew and Greek words for worship causes confusion. KJV had no problem translating it into worship in 1 chronicles 29 because that's what it literally says.
Worship of God alone is a worship only given to our Creator. Bowing down to his anointed (Messiah) is our demonstration of giving him glory.
I think u should study a bit more on near eastern culture. Learn more about bowing customs in those days and why they were performed. God and His Christ both deserve to be kneeled to in reverence and awe. But God alone deserves his unique worship as Creator of all.
After reading the comments I honestly can't blame people for being discouraged from believing it's confusing.
After reading Bible it gets more cleared then comments, don't go further then Genesis.
@@hubertagamasu6283 so, you are comparing trying to understand the doctrine of the Trinity to trying to understand Quantum physics? I don't need to understand quantum physics to be saved. but yet, I can't be saved according to Dr. Brown without believing in the Trinity. and how can I believe in it if I don't comprehend it? I have been through a hundred hours of these debates and still no Trinitarian can help make sense of it. and believe me, I am trying.
Yes it certainly can be. I have struggled for a long time tying to derive at some clarity, but in the end I just couldn't excape the cleat words of God and Jesus, setting aside the opposing arguments. Jn 3"16 God Clearly stated he SENT his Son. On the Holy Mt. in the presence of John, Peter & James , God declared that Jesus was his son, the one he loved and approved, and told the three disciples to Listen to him [Jesus]. This is the same declaration Moses stated in the OT regarding a prophet like himself who was to come.. Numerous places in scriptures it states that Jesus is NOW seated at the right hand of God the Father. Theses verses are absolutely CLEART regardless of the so-called many trinirarian proof text. Even though they "appear" to carry weight of the deity of Jesus or a God-man, or God the son [no where in the Bible]. I think I will just go with what Jesus and God say regarding their identity. And save myself some headaches.
@@hubertagamasu6283quantum physics is not true! dude look up Austin Witsit. He’ll straighten up your cosmology real quick. And drop the Pharisee energy, it’s not all that convincing.
Clarifying to me.
Dr. Brown exposed that Dr.. Tuggy must believe in 2 gods, father & son or else we worship, a mere created being.
The Bible clearly reads Jesus is the alpha, the omega, the beginning and the end. Was there before all things were created, and all things were created through him. Jesus is the son is God. Jesus is God.
This poor Dr. Tuggy guy was not prepared for this debate.
He came prepared to debate modalism (Dr. Brown is not a modalist, so every assertion was a straw-man). It is clear from his presentation that he does not listen, either. He came to insult and to make snarky comments. Dr. Brown emphasized that the flesh was crucified while his spirit did not die. Tuggy was even corned on this! He agreed his spirit didn't die then when Dr. Brown made him answer so Jesus didn't die, he ran away and said ask me when its your turn to ask questions! Dr. Tuggy you need to have a response to how the spirit of Christ remained while his flesh dying at the same time. The reincarnation is the explanation for this!
Is there a decent debate between Biblical Unitarian & Modalism? (Specifically simultaneous Modalism,
Not sequential Modalism)
Dr Brown is not only sound in biblical doctrinal approach but also being an intellectual.
Dr. Brown won, Tuggy didn't have good attack points and quoted others and brought up creeds and less of scripture. His first presentation was interesting but didn't have much to stand on, he cherry picked church father's and says the Greek scripture was wrong just to fit his view.
Wow never seen unitarians are so close to teaching of Islam!
Not only close to Islam but also to old testament religion the Jews. Only Trinitarian taking Pagon concept of God
@@PEH5806 cite any pagan religion that believes in 3 co-eternal person who make 1 God.
I’ll be waiting. By the way I said cite a source, don’t quote me your opinion.
@@dualtags4486
Very strange that you don't know about 3 in 1 concept. You can even find this in Hinduism besides Greek pagon concept.
One supreme God who consisted of three persons or essences. The Babylonians used an equilateral triangle to represent this three-in-one god. The Greek triad was composed of Zeus, Athena and Apollo.
Who are the 3 gods of Hinduism?
It is often said that there is a trinity of Hindu gods: Brahma the creator, Vishnu the preserver and Shiva the destroyer. But while Vishnu and Shiva have followers and temples all over India, Brahma is not worshiped as a major deity.
The story of the virgin birth was not new at the time of Christ. Millennia before Christ was supposedly born to a virgin, the mythical Egyptian god Horus was born to the virgin Isis. Krishna, the Hindu god, was also born of a holy virgin. Both Jesus and Krishna are held to be god incarnate by two religions.
The Christians is just another concept of God 3 in 1 which has been used much more earlier. Even other religions their diety already born out of virgin mother and not exclusive for Jesus alone.
@@PEH5806 give me sources bud
@@dualtags4486
Pls do some homework bro. Don't expect everything to be spoon feed. Its not a secret 3 in 1 God practices by other religions besides Christians. Everyone should know about that. You want source you need to go to library. Here I can give you the summarised articles only.
When you pray, say: OUR FATHER, which art in Heaven, hallowed be Your Name...
The same Jesus who said pray to the father also said we should ask anything in his name, John 14:13-14
@(( Christian Man )) Mr " Christian man" this is something for you to think about, you will die in your sins unless you believe that I AM you will die in your sins, in the literal Greek it's I Am not I Am he, I wonder whether that I Am has ever echoed something to you
@@sethlubega3153 If you don't believe that Jesus is Christ, the Son of God you will die in your sins. If you believe that he is Christ, the Son of God you will have life through his name. See John 20:31
God made Jesus Lord and Christ
See Acts 2:36
@@iamdenisehiers6719 you mean the same acts that tells you God purchased the church with his own blood acts 20:28, the I AM the Lord Jesus uses in John 8:24 is the I AM God uses to describe himself in Deuteronomy 32: 39 it's I Am without nothing added to , the I AM where the Divine name YAHWEH is derived, mind you in John 1:1 they have already told you the word is God, yes the Lord Jesus is God one with the Father and holy Spirit
@@sethlubega3153 God was in Christ
......but the Father that dwelleth in me ,he doeth the works. See John 14:10
Also, Matthew 12:28
" But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you."
Also Acts 2:22,
"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth a man approved by God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you......"
God was in Christ. Amen.
To answer that guys question a t 2:30:00, Jesus died, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit, in which he also went and preached unto the spirits in prison. 1Peter 3:18-19. There you go, the body died not the spirit.
Brown said the Son did NOT die - that is true in the trinitarian sense, because God can not die (if Jesus is God, he couldn’t die).
However, exactly this exposes the trinity doctrine as false and unbiblical, because the Son factually did die.
If Jesus didn’t die, as Brown testifies about the trinitarian belief, then there’s no forgiveness of sins.
@EOTJ APOLOGETICS "Do you really believe that death means cessation of existence????" Yes I do, and Scripture confirms it. Why do you subscribe to Platonic philosophy when it contradicts clear Scripture? Revelation 20:14, Psalm 1:6, Psalm 37:20, Psalm 92:7, Matthew 10:28b, John 3:16, Romans 6:23, Philippians 3:19, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, James 4:12a.
To be clear, ALL will be raised to face judgment at the second coming of the Son of Man who is seated at the right hand of Power. Believing God the Father raised Jesus the Christ from the dead is the one and ONLY source of eternal life. You act as if you already have that eternal life, with or without the Messiah! Also by your immortal soul logic, there were three immortals crucified at Golgotha. The idea of the immortal soul was the first lie the devil told "Ye shall not surely die". But what did God say to Adam and Eve? "You shall surely die!" Was this just the body that died? It was not, as God was talking to ADAM who was according to 1 Cor 15:45, "a living soul". The very distinction that Adam became a "living" soul implies there is a soul that is "not living" a.k.a ceasing to exist.
EOTJ APOLOGETICS do not falsely accuse me. Brown said “the Son of God did not die”... then he tried to save his position by saying “the incarnate Jesus died”. This is borderline schizophrenia, or Brown has a fourth god in his pantheon.
Jesus the Messiah IS the Son of God. Either he died or he didn’t. It is sad that we have to explain to you trinitarians that the dead are really dead.
The answers you get from trinis on this are all over the place. Trinis argue Jesus could not have been "a mere man" because a mere man can not die for sins, he therefore had to be more, he had to be God. That means God died. Some of the same trinis argue then that God did not die, but instead Jesus died in his human nature---which goes back to man dying.
The problem is what non-Trinitarians mean by "God died". They bring in a Jehovah's Witness view that they don't even believe in themselves when speaking of regular human beings.
So what do you mean by death? If you mean death of the body, then yes, God died like a regular human being. If you mean Jehovah witness death, then that's a false teaching.
@@anissueofursincerity It's only "all over the place" if you think death means Jehovah Witness death. If, however, death means "I commit my spirit into your hands" (as Tuggy refused to admit), then you're left with a non-argument.
"One GOD...one Lord"(Adon) [ GOD appointed, granted, sent, resurrected, exalted Jesus]
Both titles were given to Jesus by Thomas
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should strike the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fireceness and wrath of Almighty God.
19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Incase anyone missed it, it's the wrath of Almighty God, and he is LORD. ~ The Word of God ~Jn 1:1
@@AndreasOfPatraeGod means mighty one, not Yahweh. He's definitely our god in that he is our king and ruler but he's not the one true god, that being the father, a separate being.
Always a pleasure to hear Mr. Tuggy. Quick note, Jude talk about Jesus freeing his people in Egypt. Also, Jesus himself also talks about knowing Abraham in the gospels.
Really? Where in Scriptures did Jesus and Abraham meet? Did they talk with one another? Abraham had a revelation from God the Father of the coming Messiah. Is that so hard to comprehend. God sees things that are as though they have already happened. When scriptures speak of David"s and Abraham's seed , who do you suppose it is making reference? The Messiah Jesus.
@@priscillajervey8345 you’re joking right?
You think?? Ha!@@notazazel You think maybe Abraham and Jesus were buddies? Ha!
”And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; and he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, and said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:“
Genesis 18:1-3 KJV
Although the other 2 are later identified as angels in Genesis 19:1, some say the 3 are the Triune God coming down to earth to speak with Abraham.
”Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.“
John 8:58 KJV
Just to add some clarification to the original greek here. Both debaters actually misquote the verse "The Throne of God and of The Lamb".
This is the greek "Estai ho thronos tou Theou kai tou Arniou en autē, kai hoi douloi autou latreuseusin autō."
In the above "Theo" is God and "Arniou" is The Lamb.. they both are preceded by the word "Tou" which means "of". The debaters for some reason were dropping the word "of" in front of the lamb.
If you drop the "of" in front of the lamb, it would seem that Tuggy is right in saying we have "The throne of God... and oh btw there's a lamb there".
But the Greek has the "of" in front of the lamb also. So this is clearly saying the throne is "of God and of The Lamb".
The throne being both of the lamb and God shows that they are both sovereign and therefore the sentence would be read as saying the worship is for both.
The Lamb receives the throne of his father David in Jerusalem Luke 1:32
@@matthewsouthwell3500 because Jesus is greater than his father David
@@matthewsouthwell3500 you do know that God is not the offspring of David?
@@matthewsouthwell3500 and i couldn't help but notice you didn't say "Yes I know that God is not the offspring of David." either. because from way you're cross referencing those two verses, it leads me to think that you don't actually know the difference between God and Jesus 🤔
@@matthewsouthwell3500 Right, the root of David. That makes him a descendant of David, that makes him a man. Jesus is the Christ the Son of God. God said he tries the reins and hearts, so why do you have such a hard time believing that his Son also tries the reins and hearts? Have you never heard the saying "like father like son"?
Remember John 5:19?
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
You should know the difference between a Father and his Son.
This centuries old debate started by Arius and Anthancious in the 4th Century will never end. Really good debate though. The NONE trinitarian view is more logical, simple, convincing, and scriptural in my opinion.
Really?
Who is Abraham seeing in Genesis 18:1-6. 🤣
@@KyrieEleisonMaranatha Jesus explicitly say I am not God in the Bible easy
Islam is what you are looking for.
Islam is the creation of Satan himself.
@@HawkLad Islam is totally uncompelling though.
Yeshua the Messiah DIED, and GOD raised Him!
Jesus and the Holy Spirit also raised Jesus from the dead. So says that bible.
Dr Tuggy said many times about some versus; the "scholars says".
To me that sounds like the Roman Catholicism, they also says that whatever their "scholars said" .
He only appeals to scholars in cases where the trinitarian believer would be swayed by scholars. The final authority on theology for the unitarian is the scriptures, not 3rd and 4th century converted philosophers.
The Trinitarians do not understand the use of titles. They do not study Hebrew history.
Dr. Brown is a literal scholar of ancient Hebrew.
@@JubalBed Which means he knows better and chooses to lie.
Greetings, Loved Ones! John 14, verse 28: Christ said"...I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."! In John 20, verse 17, Christ said, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"! Read below! #2 12-19-2022!
@@hubertagamasu6283Then at what point Jesus became God? Since he was a man when he was in the world.
@@suleimanallison7680 Who said Jesus became God? Jessus is God become man. Read Philippians 2.
Which part of Philippians do you not understand? Jesus who was in the nature of God, to the nature of a human servant. As a servant, would the Father not be greater than him? As a human servant, will the Father not be his God?
See Our latest Letter for better understanding! @@hubertagamasu6283
Christ was sent by Father GOD and was part of Father GOD, being the Angel of GOD'S presence, in Exodus! See Our latest Letter 11/13/2023!
I would like to ask Michael Brown if his triune God is the same as Jesus' God -- did Jesus worship the Triune God of modern Christianity? Remember he said he was going "to my God and your God". Did not our Master the only sinless man obey the Greatest commandment in the Law and Love YHWH, his God with all his heart, might, mind and strength? Is he not our perfect example?
Brown keeps saying that Unitarians don't worship the God of the Bible. The God and Father of our Lord Jesus is the God of the Bible, PERIOD!
The only true God is the God and Father of our Lord and Savior Yeshua the Messiah -- and that is not a triune God!
yeah your wrong
The point that Dr. Brown is trying to make is that when you say Jesus isn't God and that He is simply a lesser being but then go ahead and worship Him as God and pray using His name, that you are engaging in idolatry. You are only supposed to worship God, if you worship a created being you are not worshiping God and are therefore breaking the first and second commandments that were given to Moses.
You put a period where God doesn't. Matthew 28:19 says each member of the Triune Godhead has a NAME, and that name is Yahovah or Yahweh or the less anointed but correct Greek theos or God, understanding that He is not just any Elohim. He is the Creator Elohim, and it was the WORD who spoke the creation into being on behalf of the Father, who has never descending to earth yet as did the Yahweh of the First Testament.
Song Commentaries by RB Scott why do you insist Jesus is YHWH when Psalm 110:1 proves otherwise?
Yeshua is not YHWH and he said so when he told the Jews that his father is the one they call God. They were Jews and they knew who God was as indicated by Jesus when he said that the Jews know what they worship to the woman at the well.
As far as the term "worship" goes, it is an english word that does not convey the exact meaning of the Hebrew and Greek words it is translated from, which usually mean bow down or pay homage or giving honor too. It was given to kings, rulers as well as God himself. The key is that the honor due to the Son is not the same as that due to the Father as clearly shown in Revelation chapters 4 & 5. This is also shown by the fact that Yeshua refuses to take credit for his teachings and miracles but gives all the glory to the Father when he said "of myself I can do nothing, it is the Father that dwells in me [through the in dwelling of the Spirit], HE DOES THE WORKS"!
I can’t believe Michael said that he believed that Jesus didn’t die!
Jesus the fully man die but the Spirit did not die. Jesus is fully God and fully man
Ladislao Melgar so if his spirit didn’t die how is our spirit saved?
@@dhodzmelgar2933 fully man and fully god. Fully square yet fully circle. The cake is there but you ate it. Complete left yet completely right. Anything else?
I believe he was attempting to express that necessity and obviousness of the death of Jesus's flesh but not his supernatural expression of eternal existence. As a point of explanation:
Matt 10:28: "And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul, but instead be afraid of the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
"
Matt 27:50: "And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and gave up his spirit"
At least what I take away from this is that the spirit is not dead upon the death of the physical body, and this was expressed euphemistically on the cross when Jesus "gave up his spirit". The obvious purpose was to resolve and declare the termination of Jesus' physical life -- as a secondary proceeding, we see that Jesus' physicality is declared dead but not his spirit. The incarnation died, the Son did not die.
If you're left with the lingering question of spiritual death too, I suppose that's a part of the whole -- Jesus defeated death, because He was singularly qualified and capable of it due to his sinlessness. I don't think I'm straying into some heresy I'm aware of by speculating that perhaps by the nature of His eternal and uncorrupted existence, He was unable to be "reaped" into the destruction of His soul in addition to His body when he departed the physical realm into the spiritual realm [described as Sheol/Hades in the text]. So upon resurrection, He brought life back into His former mortal coil.
Thus physical death, the shedding of blood to redeem as a sacrifice, and then the resurrection to defeat death by defying its power over Him..
Apologies for the stream of consciousness! Hope this was in some way useful.
Tyler Smith thank you for the response, I understand your point of view. If it helps here is a link to what I believe and hopefully you can understand my dilemma a little better.
www.pursuegod.org/hebrew-word-study-nefesh/
No Dr. Brown, Dr Tuggy does not believe in two gods, but at ONE GOD and ONE MESSIAH! Just as the Jewish people believe.
Do you honor Jesus just as you honor the Father?
Why did you leave 25 comments in a row?
Wow Michael Brown smoked him 😮
His Jewish background gives him perspective that the other guy doesn’t have!
So many quotes in the NT from the OT. Quotes about Yahweh applied to Jesus!
We definitely know the NT authors believed Jesus is God!
It seems to me Tuggy made more sense than Dr Brown, he does not even know what kind of trinitarian is he, the trinity is a pagan teaching given by the Catholic church & than later taught by protestant churches, it was named after a pagan lawyer Tertullian, God made it clear he is one there is no other before or after him, plus he made it clear he is not a man or son of man there is no bible verse that states God would send a piece or part of himself instead he sent his servant & son Jesus Numbers 23:19: GOD IS NOT A MAN, that he should LIE, Hos: 11:9 NEITHER THE SON OF MAN that he should repent: Hath he said, and will he not do it?Deuteronomy 6:4 “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. Sadly trinitarian scribes purposely changed Gods name Jehovah or Yahweh in Hebrew to titles like Lord to confuse or blur the distinction between him & his servant & son Jesus,
John 17:3, FATHER YOUR ARE THE ONLY TRUE GOD,
4:23-25. WORSHIP THE FATHER & YOUR GOD IN
SPIRIT & TRUTH. John 20:17
(I ACESND TO MY FATHER & MY GOD) (WHERE IS
HOLY SPIRIT?) GOD IS NOT A TRINITY
Malachi 3:6 For
I, Jehovah, change not; therefore
ye, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed. 1 Kings 8:60 that all the peoples of the earth may know that Jehovah, he is God; there is NONE ELSE .
1 Corinthians 8:6(ASV) yet to us there is one
God, the FATHER, (not son or or holy spirit -gods power) of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, (authorized king)
Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.
MALACHI 2:10 WE HAVE ONE GOD AND FATHER JEHOVAH
Good one!
All I need to know is that Jesus Christ is LORD !! period
Knowledge is nothing to be afraid of.
@Saint Belligerant jude tells us the Jesus led Moses out of Egypt, in Exodus we read The LORD led Moses and his people out of Egypt.
@@mitchelladkins3502 1stCorinthians chapter 10 verse 4 shows Christ follows/doesn't lead Israel out of Egypt.
Exodus chapter 13 verse 21 'the LORD went before them in a pillar of a cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night'.
@One God One Christ 1stCorinthians chapter 10 verse 4 Christ follows/doesn't lead Israel out of Egypt.
Exodus chapter 13 verse 21 'the LORD went before them in a pillar of a cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night'.
One God one Christ
You call the WORD of GOD corupted, why? Because it doesn't fit your cult's fubar doctrine? So let us write our own bible, with our doctrins?
Who is on the throne in Isaiah 6:1?
Gen. 15:1, 4 in the Hebrew reads WORD YHWH came unto Abraham in a vision, WORD YHWH says.to him.
Genesis has all three individuals echad "unified" YHWH, WORD YHWH and MESSENGER YHWH.
Who is Melchizedek in Gen 14:18, Isa 9:6 and Heb. 7:1?
What a travesty and insult to the Messiah and to God to downgrade Jesus' sacrifice as our human Messiah to simply say that it wasn't really him who died, but just his body. Jesus died. Otherwise he wouldn't have been able to be risen on the 3rd day. You can't be risen up from death if you never really died in the first place.
He experianced human death - and this is the death of the body.... what else should it be?
Are you an atheist and believe the soul dies with the body?
The eternal Word is God (John 1,1) and bevame flesh (John 1 14) and suffered in the flesh (1 Pet 4,1)