326: 30-06 vs 300 Win Mag For Elk
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2023
- Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast! Would you trade a 1954 Winchester Model 94 rifle for a Savage over and under 24? We'll cover that, the 30-06 vs. 300 Win Mag for Elk, and Grizzly Bear defense on this episode of Ron Spomer Outdoors podcast.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
If I could only have one bolt gun for the rest of my life. It would be chambered in .30-06 SPRG.
During the 50's and 60's... the only suggestion in place of the 30.06 was the younger sibling, 270 Winchester.
It is the OPTIMUM .30 caliber. Anything that makes louder noise, burns more powder, reduces magazine capacity, erodes bore throats, and inducing flinching is moving into zone of diminishing returns very quickly. They just don't kill game dramatically faster, better, deader. Yes there is the issue of longer range power, but there is a greater problem with hunter honesty about the range most game is actually taken.
If I could have only one gun for the rest of my life, I might have to be a .308 Win. If your nice to it, you can get 10,000 rounds out of it before it's done. If I get to re-barrel the gun and are able to find ammo or components to reload, I like the 6.8 Western or maybe a .280 AI.
I read an article by the Boone and Crockett Club about what cartridge is responsible for the most entries of any North American game into the books. No surprise to me but it's the 30-06!
Agreed, but being in Alaska, mine would be a .300WM.
Keepin' the Ole '06!!!! 😉😉😉
Mr. Spomer.. I am an FFL and CFI.. I'm also licensed to manufacture ammo for firearms. I am a gunsmith. I have been watching you for awhile now, and I must say.. you're pretty good. I am enjoying your channel and will continue to follow you. I'm 67 with 40 years of professional experience, I'm not easily impressed. You Sir, impress me.
Mr. BlackCreekArmory, from a man of your experience I take that as a high compliment and thank you for it. Please do let me know if I stray from the straight and narrow.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast . Humility, a rare trait when it comes to gun knowledge. Love to see how you handle the tongue lashings. Hehe
@@WanderingBobAKI don't always agree with Ron, but anyone who has a dog like cubby and dresses like Elmer Fudd is Ok in my book.
@@beestoe993lol
Much respect for Ron. He does however, have a bias toward the spreadsheet, and the spreadsheet has a bias toward velocity and energy. There a lot more to terminal ballistics than those sheet numbers and a lot in the terminal ballistic world is counterintuitive. There's too much information in America's "past" world that people have just discarded as irrelevant to modern ballistics.
For the gentleman asking the question about .30-06 vs. .300 Win Mag, sorry for the extreme length of my comment, but there are several other things to consider. Here's my take on it:
Both .30-06 and .300 Win Mag are excellent for elk. I am sure many people may recommend getting a .300 Win Mag, and they surely aren't wrong. It's a fantastic elk round. However, with today's modern high BC bullets, .30-06 is NOT the same round it was decades ago, and it's more capable now than it's ever been. I have mentioned this a couple of times recently here on TH-cam, but I feel this deserves repeating here, as I feel it applies directly to you hunting elk out west.
As an example of what .30-06 is capable of with more modern bullet designs...
Ultimate Reloader did a recent video featuring .30-06 shooting 212 grain Hornady ELD-X bullets, and with 56.3 grains of Superformance powder it shot 2,590 fps at the muzzle, produced 1,627 ft.-lbs. and 1,859 fps at 600 yds., and has literally IDENTICAL wind drift numbers right across the board as a 6.5 Creedmoor shooting 143 grain ELD-X, due to the 212 grain ELD-X's even higher BC of .663 (using Hornady's ballistics calculator). As we all know, whether you love or hate 6.5 Creed, it has very good wind drift ballistics due to its inherently high BC bullets, and the loading above for .30-06 matches it yard for yard, yet delivers power at all distances that 6.5 Creed could only DREAM of attaining. All this equals sure death to ANY elk shot at sane distances, while also delivering the power required for even longer distances. Hornady ELD-X is an excellent round for longer distances, not only for its higher BC design, but also because its terminal performance is best suited to long distance shooting.
Additionally, given you already own a rifle chambered in .30-06, there are a few other benefits to sticking with it as well:
First off, by sticking with .30-06 you will more than likely save well over a thousand dollars (or even much more) by not having to buy a rifle chambered for .300 Win Mag., as well as ammo for it, added accessories, etc. By not having to spend that money, it will literally pay for a good portion of your hunting trip out west.
Secondly, you already shoot .30-06, and more than likely you're very familiar, comfortable and adept at shooting it. If you buy a rifle chambered in .300 Win Mag, you'll have to get used to shooting with that rifle. You'll have to get it dialled in, and it will also require time to become proficient at shooting it. Additionally, it also has more recoil than .30-06 as well, which may take some additional time and adjustment to shoot well with. Not to mention, you may even decide you don't like the extra recoil.
Oftentimes, many people talk about buying a new rifle chambered in something else because it's "better" than what they already had. There are certainly times where that is necessary for the hunt they are doing, but there are just as many times when someone buys a new, more powerful rifle for a hunt, yet when the time comes, they aren't able to shoot as well with it because it's still new and unfamiliar to them. Whereas, with the rifle they had, they were more familiar and proficient with shooting it to begin with. I'm not saying this is the case every time, but there are many times where the shot of a lifetime can be missed, or the animal requires too many shots to take it down, all because the shooter was too unfamiliar with the rifle they bought for the trip. Ask any experienced guide and they'll tell you stories of how often this happens. This is something to consider as well, and I'd rather hunt with a rifle I'm more intimately familiar with than something I'm not. Particularly while on a potential hunt of a lifetime.
Additionally, there's also the fact that if you use your .30-06 for your elk hunt, you'll only be adding to your memories and the history of using that rifle, and I can guarantee you it will only make you more attached to it whenever you pick it up and remember all the hunts you did, including the elk you shot with it. There's something to be said about that too.
Thirdly, if you do decide to get a .300 Win Mag, you may also want to consider if you'll have a use for it after your hunt out west. Do you have a realistic use for it in your typical hunting areas back home? Will you use it for other hunts out west? Or will it sit in a safe and not get used much at all. My point being that all the money it'll require to buy a new rifle, ammo, etc. may not be worth it if you only use it for one trip, and then it sits around not getting used. Only you can decide if it's worth it, but that could be another consideration as well.
Regardless, I don't say any of these things to disparage .300 Win Mag AT ALL, or to discourage anyone from buying a rifle chambered in it. Again, it's a fantastic and time tested elk round. There is zero debate about that whatsoever. However, for anyone shooting .30-06, it is also a very capable elk round, and with modern bullets it's excellent beyond 500 yards, if needed. For over 100 years, tons of elk have been taken with .30-06, and even more continue to be taken with it every season. If you already own .30-06 there's not really a need to get anything more for elk if that's what you already have and shoot, and are proficient with already. Again, with modern bullets, .30-06 is much better than it's ever been for extended range, and it is now much better than most people realize.
Regardless, .30-06 and .300 Win Mag are both excellent and proven elk cartridges and you can't go wrong with either one, but my advice is to stick with what you already have, and what you already know due to all the factors I've mentioned. Be confident with it. I wouldn't hesitate using it for an elk hunt of a lifetime.
Holy shit......thats alot for a fella!
Thanks!
@@jamestonyan520 You're welcome, but ugh. Just to clarify for everyone reading my initial comment above...
I just came back and saw that I completely messed up the premise of the question regarding .30-06 and .300 Win Mag! When I first saw this video it was being premiered live and when I started watching, it was right near the end of the question and for whatever reason I thought the asker already had a .30-06 and was thinking of getting a .300 Win Mag for his hunt for elk. What I didn't realize at the time (due to not hearing the beginning of the question) was that it was actually the other way around: that he would be using his father's .300 Win Mag, and that he was looking to get a rifle of his own in either .30-06 or .300 Win Mag. Meaning, that he doesn't own either of them yet. Again, I caught this video while it was being premiered live and you're not able to go backward in the video until the video ends and it is posted. I came back to watch it again just now, and I immediately realized I had messed up the premise of the question.
However, with that said, I'm going to leave my initial comment up, because it's still completely relevant to anyone who already owns a .30-06, but is thinking of getting a .300 Win Mag to do an elk hunt. I still firmly believe that in that case there's no need to "upgrade" to the .300 Win Mag for an elk hunt, because today's modern high BC bullets give the .30-06 even better ballistics than it's ever had for hunting at long range, if needed. More than a lot of people may realize. Essentially, .30-06 is even more capable and relevant than it's ever been.
Anyway, sorry for the confusion, everyone! lol
I hunt "out west" and I've never really needed a .300 mag. even though I used to have one.
@@russellkeeling4387 Cool. What's your cartridge(s) of choice, and what do you hunt for?
Add on ? Get your favorites all in xact same rifle.[ didn't haveto make.[ multiple m70 s?] [xcuses to wife weren't necessary 3006s/ 338s[ both cover same by hand loading up and down/ 300wm. Can all be cartridge specific in a perfect world .
The Awesome Ought Six!!!!
06. PERIOD. AND FOREVER!!!
Haha,"Yule Gibbon's", I do remember him and Grape Nut's cereal. A blast from the past.
We used to go pickup clients at the airport and bring them back to the ranch. The next day we would have them shoot to check their zero. what we were really doing was seeing how far they could shoot with consistent accuracy. About 75% could not shoot well past 300 yards so there really was no need for a magnum.
The Terminal Ascent bullets are bonded lead in the front and a solid copper base.
Ron I'm almost 60 and I have been hunting all my life and did it professionally for several years as a guide and wildlife manager , I really enjoy you sharing your knowledge with us on firearms and hunting !
I own both but for PNW hunting, you can’t beat the 06
I have a meopta scope. I bought the scope 4 years ago. The glass is really clear, light transmission is second to none. I highly recommend Meopta!!
Rons the best. I could listen to you talk all day. Very relaxing
Thank you, Brick.
As always, very good information.
And I'll stay with my .30-06. :)
It would be hard to pry my 30-06 away from me, but my .300 win mag is nice as well.
I'll just stay with my 30-06
They're both more than capable for just about everything in North America, got like 3 of each. No complaints yet.
'06 gang gang.
@@linkbond08 yeah, most of mine are 1917 Enfield. Good enough for Dad, works for me.
@@linkbond08 heck yeah ✊
I'll just stay with my .308. I live in Namibia and hunt nearly every day - I've taken Gemsbok out to 622m and Eland out to 300m no issues... using Hornady 168gr ELD-M.
I bought a 300WM when I was young man, mostly as a novelty, but also if I wanted to go out west elk hunting. Funny thing is I have only hunted with it a few times. It's an alright cartridge, but I have found that I really have not had much need for one. Now that I'm in my mid 40s, and am starting to realize the affects of numerous work and sport injuries, I just don't want to deal with the extra recoil when I can use a, say, a 270 Win or a 7mm-08 instead. I can't say I'm afraid to shoot my 300WM, or that I'm not capable of grouping my shots well, but I just prefer not to get beat up while shooting. And with the cost of ammo these days, why not just shoot something cheaper, and more available? In that case 30-06 is a winner for me.
300wm is indeed a great cartridge.
me too I was 20yrs first gun...browning bar...
Two word for your 300 win.....muzzle brake.
@@stevenp8198 that rifle would have to be custom fit at a gun smith because it doesn't have any threads. I have looked into it, and almost had one installed a couple times, but like I said I just don't use that rifle all that much. I hunt in Michigan, so it's serious over kill in these woods. I also don't know if the recoil is bad enough to warrant making my hearing suffer more than it already does. I pull it out still from time to time, and shoot it, or take it hunting as a back up gun. I just prefer other rifles in my safe to that one.
@@hammerheadms gotcha. have been shooting the same rem 700 bdl since I was 11...I'm now 59 but I lived in Alaska when I was a kid and now live in Montana so the 300 win is still tops in my lineup for hunting. If I go east for antelope or just deer I take it but mostly use a 243 win.
In Canada in Alberta and British Columbia the grizzly bear hunt has been totally banned, a really bad idea the bears are getting bolder.
Thank you for your work, and your videos. I grew up reading the work of Jack O'Conner, Warren Page, Elmer Keith, and the gun writers of the day. It's refreshing to see someone carrying on the tradition, and doing it as well, or better. As a former gunsmith, shooter, and life long gun guy I appreciate what you're doing for the gun world.
Ron, I agrer with your assessment of Joseph von Benedict he is an extremely talented writer, and is a great addition to the show.
When my son and I went Elk hunting out West, we did not get any Elk but my son got a very nice Whitetail (4 X 5) and I got a very nice Muley (4 X 5). Each was taken with a .300 Win Mag. My Son took his at 300 Yards with one shot. I took mine at 275 Yards with one shot. No reason to buy a bigger rifle.
However, shot placement rules. If the bullet does not go where it needs to go, nothing else matters.
Used the 30-06 for coyote, deer, bear and elk for 29 years. Using Hordany Superformance 150 grain SST, I get more speed and energy than a 7mm Rem mag shooting Remington Core-Lokt 150 grain. At my max range of 450 yards I get 2,120 FPS and 1,501 foot pounds of energy. Hordany Superformance makes the 30-06 a "light magnum" if you will. I love the aught 6 and all of it's American history.
300win mag..this is an unbelievable round..
BOTH 30;06 and 300 win are excellent elk medicine. A buddy uses 6.5x55 effectively also. he is a good shot.
As I recall the 35 Whelen was a popular choice for the big ruminants.
Until the HIGH-BC-BRIGADE and the LONG-RANGE-BROS came along and made something of a scientific fact seem to turn into legend and rejected myth. So it is with a lot of stuff in the firearms world.
My 1954 30-06 with scope bought the same time by my grandfather is my go to everything gun. Never let’s me down. It’s like a security blanket.
Tough one! 300 magnums kick a lot! Maybe too much for me.
But its a better Elk caliber. But I dont feel under gunned with a 30-06, unless the ranges exceed 300 yards.
Get close. Load a 190gr Buffalo Bore in that .30-30. Pop it in the usual place. Dead Elk.
@@lifted_above sure is easier to carry!
@@arthurshingler2025 6-7 pound rifle, usually, and fast followup shots if necessary. But I also admit, unless you can get within 150 yards of large tough game like elk, then something like a .30-06 or larger caliber (.338, .358, .375) would be better.
@@lifted_above
I agree with you! TOTALLY!
I've had several 300 mags, and several 06's, I even had a 300 Weatherby mag at one point. All of my 300 rifles seem to carry heavy and were awkward, the 06 is seem comfortable all the way around. I'm torn but if I was going to go elk hunting today I would probably grab an 06. On the other hand if I was was going to buy another 300 I would probably skip it and just go with the 338.
I have tried many different rifles. My last one I tried was a Winchester 300. I shot better and absolutely loved it. Heavier stock cuts recoils a bit. The 270 I felt a bit light, the 30.06 not quite as flat shooting but I took many deer and elk with both. But after trying the 300 it shot very well, and just a bit more power in case a shot was not perfect. I never lost an animal with either of these. It’s where you hit the animal. Very good video and loved hearing what you have to say.
I've given quite a few wild hogs a headache with my 300 win mag, I'm confident with it so I'll stick with it.
Dead is dead.
I never understood having a mag cartridges, extra recoil and cost for not much gain overy 30-06.I'll stick with my 270 and 30-06.
Extra punch for sure as well as much more killing power at longer ranges.. Just saying.
They got their place, usually at extended range. If you were doing target shooting 300 wm is great, but for hunting it still grants more energy and flatter trajectory. The big one is let's say you do a long shot, how about 400 yards on the elk of a life time, both '06 and 300 wm can get there, but the extra couple hundred fps means the round will have better and more reliable expansion. It has its place, but 30-06 and 270 can do it as well, just with a bit more work.
It's simple Chris, with the same pill a .300 Win Mag can do at 500 yards what a .30-06 can do at 300 yards. That's actually a pretty big gain. It's an added capability that's quite nice to have if you're huntin' in big open country, especially for them 800-1200lbs critters.
@@FraserFir-sb4lkor I’m doing 338 win mag so I can send heavier bullets slower and minimize meat damage
@@andreisharma Velocity isn't the key contributing factor to meat damage. Like Ron mentioned in the video an arrow (which is only moving around 200-300 fps) can cause as much or more 'bloodshot meat' as a bullet movin' 3,000 fps.
A big contributing factor is bullet construction. A fragmenting basic cup & core pill is much more likely to leave a mess than a bonded core or copper solid pill moving the same velocity. Not only is that depositing more energy into a concentrated area, but the fragments are more apt to nick nearby arteries or shred muscle groups. Another factor is just poor shot placement.
I'm not knockin' .338 Win Mag, it is one hell of a fine big game cartridge, but if you're using it solely based on some notion that its slightly slower velocity is gonna save meat... That's kinda misguided.
Ron, we hunters and anglers eat like kings! Love that question and answer from Milt about meat loss.
Mr. Spomer...I appreciate your kindness on some of the responses. And yeah...if you don't want to "jell" the shoulder don't shoot 'em there, make your shot behind the shoulder.
Me and my brothers tracked down lots of elk shot with our 30-06's. We now all use 300 win mags or bigger for elk hunting.
Bullet note: I love the federal terminal ascent
Sometimes I am still tempted by the "Magnum appeal", but the bottom line for me is, I wish I had a dollar for every time I have seen Magnum shooters leave the range after shooting less than one box of ammo. I like to shoot more than that.
So true! Get one gun and practice practice practice
Which 30 caliber is better for elk really just depends on how far you plan on shooting. The 30-06 with 180 grain bullets is pretty good for 0-300 yards (and still respectable out to 500, maybe 600 yards). The 300 Win Mag is ideal for shots between 200-500 yards. Closer than that you have too much velocity for optimal bullet performance. If you really want a fine elk cartridge for 0-450 yards go with the 338 Win Mag and 225 grain bullets. Just a hair faster than the '06 with 20% more frontal area = quick kills.
338 seems like a sweet spot. Send slower heavier ones get crazy penetration minimal meat damage
It's interesting to me how years ago no one I knew carried any kind of magnum rifle and always seemed to do quit well hunting elk and deer. Now everyone has to have a magnum caliber and even more recently they have to have a magnum that uses a tiny bullet like a 257 Weatherby mag.
165 Barnes changed the game for the 06 no need for the 180
@@russellkeeling4387 That's because elk and deer of today are longer, wider, lower, meaner and stronger than in the days of yore, I am sure. Like cars of the 60s. 🙂
Ron it's really nice to hear someone giving good advice. Most you tubers are pretty radical with no experience or common sense. You on the other hand have experience and common sense ,keep up the good job. I hope young or inexperienced people take your advice and not others. It's our duty to be ethical hunters, and make humane kills. Thanks, Joe
30-06 is and excellent round with many different bullet choices. It can be used on everything generally in the lower 48. The 300 Win Mag is an excellent elk gun also. I don't own one. My 2 rifles are the 30-06 and a 338 Win Mag. I use the 30-06 on White tail, coyotes, mule deer and sometimes elk in New Mexico, Colorado. I use the the 338 Win Mag on elk, caribou, bear. It hits hard. It has the muzzle energy at 250 yards that the 30-06 has at the muzzle. Drops elk every time, one shot. It is also excellent protection against bear. Remember, if charged by bear to drop to one knee and shot straight forward into the bear. Better chances of walking out instead of trying to shoot a close charging bear from standing. On a knee your shooting into frontal mass and no need for scope, which you generally will not have time to sight up. The 338 Win Mag has saved me in 2006. Take care, be safe and the enjoy the outdoors. I miss hunting, old man now with a lifetime of memories.
Use a 35 Whelen or a 400 Whelen, designed by Frank Howe in the 1920's, it works !!! I like medium bores !!!
Excellent comparison. One other major thing to note is to get the performance from the 300 WinMag you really need a longer barrel. The 30-06 can be much closer when shorter barrels are used. I'll stick with my 7600 in 30-06 for any purposes jll ever have. And as a handloader I can get even closer to that 300WM if I chose, or go down to 30-30 for close in deep woods.
My grandpa always said how fast the bullet is going is what gives a lot of blood shot meat. In our experience, the 243 I shot as a kid was leaving more blood shot than his 30-06. Obviously the bullet used also affects that, but it was a pretty stark contrast.
Ill pik 3006 every time. Load it with 150grain copper bullet like the ttsx and your elk will be in the freezer
I like the 165 or I should say my 06 liked the Barnes tsx 1 elk w that 06 load 2 w the Swede 2 with a .270 and 3 w 6.5x06 i have yet to kill w my 300wsm which I built it for getting older. I guess thought I needed another just for the task the 6.5x06 w bergers140 vld 350 yards at almost 3 k velocity
Thanks for reading my comment/suggestion Ron! All the best, LA
You’re the first person i ever heard mention Eule Gibbons Ron. I think his writings during the great depression are extremely valuable. I’m glad you know so much about guns. And you know of eule gibbons. I call that bonus knowledge. Great video as always Ron.
You don't need to bash the bad companies, Great on you for praising a Good company!
I have a Winchester model 70 XTR in .270. I bought it at a pawn shop years ago. It does not like any 130 gr. Bullets. I handloaded some 160 gr. Nosler Partitions, just to see how wild they would shoot. To my amazement, it LOVES them. Constant 1-1.25" groups at 100 yds.
In regards to the hog hunting handgun light situation:
It is common to find semiautos today that can easily be setup with a light and a holographic sight. A standard police issue in 9mm should fit the bill just fine and do double as a personal protection setup.
Archery hunters rarely start tracking an animal for 30 minutes or better so the animal isn't just continually spooked and keeps running. I don't see any reason to not do the same. Personally though, with the right weapon and cartridge it's rarely a worry if you place the bullet where it counts.
Thank you
Killer episode Ron, a lot of great stuff. I personally would rather take a long shot with a typical 30-06 sporter than hunt bush with a longer, heavyer 300WM. Worry about getting the right rifle first, and then choose your round.
I really enjoy your videos as well as your comments and insight. Thank you!!👍
Glad to hear it, Michael. Thank you.
24:18 - Awesome concept to consider. Thanks Ron! 👍
Yes on the tracking and shooting within reachable distances!
Great show, thank you.
I agree Ron I like at least three pounds of trigger pull. I see a lot of people wanting soft triggers on their deer rifles and it wonder why.
Thank you great show.
Federal Premium 30-06 vs 300WM 180 Partition factory ammo. MV difference 260 fps not quite the 300-400 gap.
I usually shoot 3 rounds than slowly walk to my target than go and shoot again to allow cooling. I also take my time between shots to reflect on my shooting as well.
ILL STAY WITH MY WIN 30-06 SPGFD. GREAT JOB GIVING US YOUR INFO, GOD BLESS YOU.
75 yards from a 30/30 in a single shot over under would be childs play. Especially with the added possibility of a pointed bullet and the greater range of powder loads.
Hey there Ron ,and again a great vid lol,, and sorry to say I remember Mr Ribbons .getting older can be very enjoyable.
A slight correction on the topic of twist rate: The larger the caliber the more rotational inertia a bullet is going to have. This is because for every rotation the outer part of the bullet has to travel farther (a .308" diameter circle vs .277"). So larger calibers require less twist rate for the same length bullet. Looking at the 170 grain Berger .277" bullet (which will definitely NOT stabilize in a 1:10 twist) it has a length of 1.490". The Berger 215 grain .308" bullet, which will stabilize in a 1:10 twist, is longer at 1.598". An even longer bullet is the 300 grain .338" Berger at 1.819", which also works just great in a 1:10. Ron's advice about using a bullet twist calculator is pretty solid. The one on Berger's site gives you a "stability factor", so you know exactly where you stand. Much better than just a yes or no answer.
I live in Montana, and have hunted elk with both as well as a 300 Wetherby. Out of all the elk i have shot, only a few have been over 300 yards, and most under 100 yards. If i could only choose one, I'd go with the 30-06 as i feel its the best all around caliber. I shoot with Swift A Frames in all my rounds 180s in the 06 and 200s in the Wetherby. As for grizzlys, I hike in grizzly country quit often in the Madison and Gallatin ranges and dont pack heat or pepper spray. Have my dogs and use proper bear protocol making plenty of noise and have never had a problem. In fact I hiked Ramshorn peak in the Gallatin range labor day weekend accessing it through the Tom Miner basin. Saw no bears but some goats. Two days later some anglers were charged by a grizzly and they had to shoot it in self defense, in the same area. So you never know. Make a lot of noise if you're not hunting, a lot of noise! Give them the opportunity to flee tge area.
30 06 for me
Been shooting hand loaded Barnes X since 1990/91 best bullet ever from 10 yards to 500+, .280 Rem, 140 X, it has dropped white tails with 1 shot consistently.
I really like the addition of Joseph, as he seems authentic and very knowledgeable. Not sure why he didn’t go into Radio, as he has a radio voice.
Ron, please discuss the advantage of lowering velocity on certain types of bullets, ie. large bore bullets (what was widely used before America became obsessed with reducing caliber, increasing velocity, and requiring expansion to be effective). I'm writing about hard-cast, or copper, or brass solids with a large flat nose and sharp cutting shoulder. Velocity is NOT ALWAYS one's friend, as it can also reduce penetration.
I would like to weigh in on the 300 vs 30/06 deal.I have owned and shot both,and love both.When I was young and bought my first rifle,I bought an 06 with the idea that I could take anything on this continent,and most things everywhere else,and I'm still convinced of that.But after going out west and paying hard earned money for a hunt,I came to realize just how big and tough elk are,so I bought a 300 Win.Mag. in a Ruger No 1 and I handloaded for it.Because it was a single shot I could seat the bullet out farther and developed a load shooting a 200 gr Partition at 3050 fps safely.My point is,there is no doubt a 06 will handle most shots at elk,but by being a paying customer,and you may only get one shot at an elk,I wanted the little bit extra horsepower for those not so perfect shots.If you live in elk country,or cant handle the recoil and muzzle blast of a larger gun,by all means,use the 06,but if you can,why not hedge your bet some with a larger round.
My 300 win mag for me for sure because of the versatility it offers to me as a handloader. This is something that is lost on most people because they always think that it has to be the biggest and baddest around.I can load it up to levels the 30-06 can only dream of or load it down to 300 Savage levels for reduced recoil and all the while still shoot very accurately. With cast bullets I can load it down further still to lesser cartridges like 30-30 or 303 Savage.
I was recently reading an article in an outdoor magazine. As I was reading I was thinking to myself man this person writes like Ron speaks . As it turns out. You wrote the article.
I've been around shooting and shooters for my entire life and I've come to two conclusions. First, most hunters can't estimate range with anything like accuracy. Second, most overestimate their own marksmanship ability. I'd ask anyone looking for a new rifle or cartridge for the proverbial "trip of a lifetime", "Do you own a .30-06 capable of 1" groups over a bench at 100 yards?" If the answer is yes I'd tell them to use the money they've budgeted for a new rifle on practice ammo and a good range finder.
You nailed it Bob!
For the question about best bullet for elk hunting. As far as the all copper bullets go, I believe the barnes LRX has the lowest minimum expansion velocity at around 1800 fps. For reference, the Hornaday cx has a minimum velocity of 2000 fps, and the barnes ttsx and the Hornaday gmx (discontinued) have a minimum velocity of 2200 fps. I've been very pleased with the LRX line of bullets, but most of these will still be above the minimum velocity at the ranges most people hunt at, within 300 yards
In regards to my last message as you can probably tell I have not done any hunting with the excepttion of my local environment wich is limited on what you can use or shoot here pretty much just 22lr and my mossberg 835 combo. I want to get out on some hunts now at this point and again want to thank you for your PC I apreciate you, Tom
great vid
And of the two Remington 06's I have, one is a mod. 700. Though it is an older model, I have NEVER had any problems with that rifle. (knock on wood). Although once on a hunt I took a fall and broke my scope. Took it off and used irons. Took a nice buck that hunt.
I'm pretty sure I can load the 06 to 300 win mag velocity
Isn't this really rather like the old .30-30 vs .32 Winchester argument? Real sportsmen like to "argue" (in a friendly way) over the merits of their favorite round. Or gun. Or binocs. Or boots. Give them a topic, and they will argue until the well-known cows come home. We'll agree to disagree. (Of course, I know the universal truth that the .35 caliber is best, but I am holding on to that secret) 🙂
I have two 30-06 and one 30-06AI. But I also own a 300 WinMag and 300 WbyMag. Shot deer with the 30-06 and bought the 300 WinMag for elk and 300 WbyMag for Alaska moose.i enjoy them all and don't plan on getting rid of any of them.
I had my dads old 270 Winchester with 180 grain,had a big 6 by 5 bull at just over 100 yards,scope on the perfect spot,hit him,he flinched like he was bite by a bug, I was loaded back up,Fired again. Same thing, I shot 3 rounds before my buddy let go with his 06 and 180 grains. He had to hit him 2 times to get him. He was big
I say that I have both a 94 and a model 24DLin 22mag,410, both from the 60"s and Thay are both good for there intended uses and would not get rid of them for love or money. And yes I have a 3006...
Purchased a Proof Research 300 win mag
My Father and brother both purchased CA 300 win mags..
The Proof is hands down a better shooting rifle wouldnt hesitate to buy another
(Other than the price)😊
My other uncle as always said a 3006 will kill anything that walks crawls swims,or flies in the north american continent if you hit them right
I hear you say quite frequently that bullet construction and shot placement are the most important thing. I fully agree with that. My issue is I find most newer hunters don’t really know what that means. I’d love to see a video of a where you have a deer poster and actually point out the aiming points for the most common shots. I think that would really help newer hunters. Another issue I have are some bullets that are marketed as hunting bullets that really aren’t very good. Hornady ELDX for example. That is nothing more than a glorified target bullet that performs quite poorly on even deer size game.
*Backfire* channel did a feature with exactly this type of data concerning deer. The internet was polled and it was clear in the results of the poll that not a lot of people actually know what a good spot to shoot actually is. The results were all over the place on the graph.
The reasoning came down to high-shoulder versus lungs.
Just so you know between Alaska and Idaho there is this huge chunk of land called Canada 🇨🇦 and these very large aggressive Bears have not just avoided this area or curbed their aggressive behavior toward campers, hikers, mountain bikers, or hunters, sleeping out under the stars or in a tent is dangerous. You're not even safe in a camper or trailer. If these bears want in they are coming in. They are after food and or you. They are also perfectly capable night hunters and almost invisible between dusk and dawn. Bathroom trips at these times are particularly dangerous never go anywhere without a large caliber gun. My go-to camp gun is a 12gage semi-auto loaded with buckshot, slug, buckshot, and so on. Aim center mass don't stop till it's down. Reload quickly these things don't just die. Keep your cool and watch that Bear as well as what may be behind it like your buddy, a tent, camper, etc.. Above all keep cool and never give that monster of the forest the benefit of the doubt, especially at night it is there for one thing. During the day and if you find your both sharing the same trail maybe try to let it pass but any signs it is at all interested in you don't hesitate it can come at you faster than an AA fueler race car. I don't believe in the bluff charge that would be that bears fatal mistake. I keep a lantern or two on low all night spread out two lights as much of the camp area as possible. I am favorable to the camp stove fuel-type lantern on a low setting they seem to stay lit through the night tell your partners you're going to the Lou or bathroom take your gun and a lantern. Stay vigilant and stay safe so that you can enjoy your trip and have many more safe trips to the great outdoors.
Ron
I always enjoy your comments: informative, thoughtful and entertaining. It's fun to have discussions (arguments) over one caliber versus another. There are umpteen good calibers and most will do the job if the application is considered. I was a professional hunting guide for over 20 years and was often asked for recommendations on caliber. My standard answer was " whatever you shoot well and what has worked for you. " I'm a huge fan of the 300 win mag but who is going to argue about the reliable 06!
Cheers from Wapiti Wyoming.
I agree with Ron. Either 30-06 or 300 Win are good choices. How recoil sensitive are you? Which do you shoot better? I would recommend you give the Federal Terminal Ascent a try. Another good one is the Swift Scirocco II along with Goode old Nosler Partition. These will not fail on you regardless of shot placement or range.
Hi Ron from Canada Alberta , i have zkk602 in 300 win mag and had it rebarel after original wore out and i love this action i have 29" barel1:10 and it loves 210 bergers its a sub moa.i also ended geting zkk601 and zkk600 love thes rifles .Love your show.🙏
Thanks Josipcro. Sounds like you have a great rifle.
Gotta tell my story again. Back in the 70s i was getting my degree in wildlife management. Only job was in Alaska. Thought about having my rifle rechambered from .30-06 to .300 win mag. Wrote P.o.Ackley. He responded on a handwritten letter. " The biggest bear in Alaska will get just as dead if you hit him in the right place. If you hit him in the wrong place it wont matter " Dumb college kid wasn't smart enough to save that letter and i almost cry about it daily
Ron I’m an old reloader and I find a lot of this new high powered rifle ammo to me is failing. I know some folks don’t place the bullet where it needs to but a lot of folks I see having to track more than they used to. I bought 1000 of rounds of older bullet styles that have worked for me for 40 years now. My go to bullet pretty much is the Nosler Ballistic Tip. It just seems to keep on producing fall where you hit it stops. Now I have had some big ole bucks run 15 yards or so nose down because if it’s a dang good whitetail buck, I take out his running gear! My go to rifle till I handed it down to my 24 year old son was a Winchester 70 Westerner .264 win mag. He has down it proud too. My load was pretty much max powder under a 140 grain Ballistic Tip. It’s own up there now, because I had to back down due to primer flow and stress and stretch on my cases. I also was smart enough years ago to buy a strain gauge and it plus my old chronograph have been invaluable in my reloading. As for new factory loads, Hornady American Whitetail loads have been stellar performers for us and it doesn’t brake the bank! Man does it preform in the accuracy department but it just drops them pretty much where they stand, from 40 yards to 400 yards, which is my max I shoot. Also we have two Remington 700’s in the classic line in .264 win mag. We love them, but now days I stick with the .308 and believe it or not my go to rifle is a Thompson Center Compass 2 with a 16" barrel and I limit my shots to 250 yards now. I was blessed enough to buy a lot of beautiful wood stocked rifles when you couldn’t give them away. We have all calibers and enjoy reloading for each. I’d have to say from a reloader’s stand point, which I’m not telling you anything, .30 bullets are so many to choose from a man could start a TH-cam channel and just take one .30 bullet and reload for each per one video. Lord it’s a lot of .30 cal bullets. Yep we also love our .300 win mags and .7mm Remington mags too, but the 6.5’s just have a special place in our hearts. Ron your info is invaluable. Thank you for what your bring to the table. I always watch your videos. God bless.
Thanks Robt. It sounds as if you've found the cartridges and bullets that work well for you. Well done.
the 300winmag has the same energy at 100 yards as the 06 has at the muzzle. depends on what we are hunting which one to use.
For my situation a 30-06 with 180 grain Partitions is PLENTY of gun. Here's why. I only go on guided hunts. Every outfitter I know of has a policy that if you draw blood your hunt is over. Because of that and because of the fact that I'm paying good money to someone for the opportunity there is NO way I'm taking a shot beyond 400 yards. Going beyond that increases the likelihood that I'll be going home empty because of a wounded animal and in my opinion the guide is not doing his job if he can't get you any closer than that. Preferably much closer.
For a public land self guided hunt it may be a very different situation. Your opportunities may be far fewer so you may be more willing to take a much longer shot. I'll leave the ethical questions concerning wounded animals for another day.
The old 6.5x55 Swede and the 7x57 Mauser have probably taken more big game than you can imagine.
I love bears, they’re delicious. I also love your videos. In regard to what I’d like to see: I HEARD A LOCAL “SHOOTING EXPERT” TELL ME, “Long barrel rifles slow bullets down. There’s no need to have a barrel longer than 20” for .308.” Can you please do a video on the accuracy of long versus short barrels with a few popular calibers?
This is info coming from a guy that hunts in the southwest, don't make it your game plan. I have took a lot of game with hornady sst bullets, 150 grain in a 270 win. A quartering or chest shot is perfect it drops them and turns the vitals into goo will stop before you ruin meat. So if you're meat hunting I recommend this as long as you are pushing 3000fps muzzle speed.
Have both, 300WM for this camp!!
Mr. Ron, show us your trophy room!
Mr. Spomer I have a question about MPBR. How does one go about sighting in a rifle for it? And at what range?
Well what about metal heating and cooling it will make it weaker right or not and that makes your barrel last or kill it right
Either will work just fine
The 300 win mag is for those that think bigger is better but don't know how to shoot.
Unless you're going for big bears or moose, you don't need 300 win mag. 30/06 will do anything on the north American continent needed. 300 win mag is great for sure but you can do without.