Why there is (pretty much) no bass in KISS' 1980s music?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ค. 2024
- ⭐ PART II: 10 KISS hits where Gene Simmons didn't play bass on: • 10 KISS hits Gene Simm...
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Probably because Lars and James mixed it. 🤣
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuude!!!
Oh hell, perfect!
For the win!
LOOOOLLL!! Good one!
Ha good one, spot on
Hahahahahaha holy shit, man
Ive always called those years between Lick it Up and Revenge "The Paul Stanley Band".
Yup.
As I said before Jean Beauvoir is an underrated artist, very talented guy, great voice, and if you like KISS you definitely have to check his work, solo albums, Crown of Thorns and VooDooX, all are excellent. Now he is one of my favorite artists.
Drums Along the Mohawk--awesome record!
Nope will never EVER check out that pop idiot...metal, real metal is what we like...not crazy nights and that jean dude
Bro please make some more of these videos, really like the format and insight
There’s another reason why the bass is so simplistic on 80s kiss records: gene intentionally changed his style to be more “modern”. According to gene himself, someone suggested to him his bass style, with all its slides and melodic runs, was too 70s. So he decided to stick to the root notes for the bass parts. This was a pretty typical technique in the hair metal days.
Steve Harris would cringe at this.
@@arthurbrucecrawford6896 Gene was using Major 3rds and Steve uses minor 3rds, 5ths and octave a bit more modern than major 3rds - Gene has said it sounds a lot like Chuck Berry!
I remember the ‘80s, and I totally agree. Bass guitar was an afterthought, especially with hair metal.
Or it's pry because gene barely played on the those albums
@@bls8959 that's true as well.
Thanks for getting in depth on this. We know Gene wasn't all that involved in KISS for a good part of the 80s, and it was mainly Paul keeping it going. I still love 80s KISS but it's missing those tasty 70s thick bass lines.
Thanks for the info Paul, very informative!
I heard that Mike Porcaro played bass on song "Creatures of the Night."
Correct. The Wikipedia page for the CREATURES Album is accurate in its list of bass players on that LP
That would not surprise me
Really like this style of video man. Keep them coming
A lot of those tracks had Bruce Kulick playing bass on them too.
Thanks Paul. Happy Holidays to you and yours Brother. 🇺🇲👊
Gene now says that he "wasn't there during the eighties" he completely lost focus, put in no effort and basically put all his energy in doing movies, dating women like Cher and Diana Ross and basically treated the band as the Paul Stanley solo band In which he did a couple of lead vocals.
Paul said that he took Gene apart in 1988 and just gave him a piece of his mind "We worked so hard for this and you're just letting it go to waste!" To his credit, Gene took in what Paul told him and took stock of what it means to be Gene Simmons, THAT Gene Simmons. He was the first to drop the colored Spandex, replacing it with black leather and when the band went into the studio to record "Hot in the shade" came in with songs which were properly written. He once again was THAT Gene Simmons.
It's a shame they trash Hot In The SHade, calling it demos. Ther's solid work on it.
Interesting. Many thanks for the deep dive.
Thanks for the video! I've been following your bass videos for a couple of months now. I just recently started playing and have been a KISS fan for 40 plus years. Do you take requests for your videos? Thanks
One thing I noticed is Reason to Live goes down to a low Eb in the verses. I don’t think Gene ever played a five string, and I don’t think it was tuned down (the song is in D minor overall). Live, he would go up to the high Eb which didn’t sound right.
The time when Kiss where without makeup being a 'hair band' had them doing some of their best songs ever. But the bass being downplayed was just how the music was produced then. It wasn't just Kiss who had vocals & guitars up front in the songs of that period. The idea Kiss used studio musicians for the albums goes back well before the 80's. Sure this time frame was when Paul was the main driving force of the band, he was at his vocal peak maturity and if you believe all he says Kiss is his band and it's only around today because he was constantly having to save the band from train wrecks. Sad aspect is in the bands dying throws paul have become the train wreck and no one seems to have the balls to tell Paul to pack away the makeup and hang up the platform boots.
Paul, you are totally right about the absence of Genes playing during the 80's! I am a bassist myself in a hard rock band, I am 55 years old. I enjoy your videos greatly and you produce them very well! 🤟 Have you covered Felix Pappalardi of Mountain 🤔👌
At the same time, I cannot say Gene couldn't play it all... I mean when you see him live in 80's on those bootlegs he just ROCKED. Technically he was really good, so... I guess it was laziness or he didn't care much in the studio. I've read the interviews with Jean of Plasmatics and Bruce Kulick and they both had to tell Gene to play something. He could come to the studio and just say "Hey Jean, feel free to record bass for that one" and Jean would go "Why man? Can't you do it yourself??!" :))
Yes, but Gene only played well live up and through the Asylum tour! The ‘80s cannot be lumped together!
I always wondered what happened to Gene's bass lines in the 80s. Thank you.
We as fans sometimes forget, the purpose if producers is to make a good album by any means necessary. Record companies comply because money. The actual musicians on the cover to the albums can woodshed their licks in rehearsals for the tour. It's not a bad deal, it's show business.
I always thought it was because Paul was producing. He grew up during a time when bass was very low in the mix...therefore it's his preference for it to sound that way.
I wonder if Paul only being able to hear in one ear has affected his production.
@@fergalmoore862 : So did Brian Wilson.
I like your videos a lot. Duff, Nikki Sixx and now Gene Simmons. God job.
Old early KISS bass like: Let Me Know, Mr Speed etc - amazing bass lines - Great channel content - Happy Holidays man - Cheers from Toronto Canada
The bass line in Mr. Speed is actually pretty brilliant, moving freely octaves and scales.
Dude, don't forget "Strutter"
Different style of rock means a different style bass too. Cool video!
I swear this channel is gonna blow up soon
Burying the bass was pretty common in the 80's. Motley Crue had no bass, Poison had no bass, etc....
Yeah Def Leppard also used synth instead of Bass on a lot of songs on Hysteria. Steve Clark and Phil Collen didnt use Amplifiers they used Rockman to record their guitar parts.
True. That’s one of many reasons I didn’t like hair metal....the mix.
Thrash Metal had the best bass of the 80's Peace Sells... But Who's Buying had the best basslines next to Master Of Puppets but Megadeth didn't bury Ellefson's Bass while Metallica buried Burton's and Newsteds basslines which makes me love Megadeth more.
This goes at least as far as Unmasked where Paul plays bass on all of his songs and Ace plays bass on all of his songs. Once I met a sound engineer working for Extreme in the 90's who was a former stage sound engineer for KISS during the late 70's and he told me Gene wasn't playing bass either during that time, his bass technician was.
Nice video bro.
Ormai Sei un ricercatore con laurea ad honorem in kissologia ❤️🏴☠️ fantastica analisi grande Paul
Does anyone know any example of the weird fingerings Paul refers to?
The funny tell Gene would give you that he didn’t play the part is he’d use his fingers (instead of a pick) in the video.
Most bands wanted to be like the Beatles or Stones and focused on the music, Kiss wanted to be like McDonalds or Coca-Cola and focused on the marketing.
Only people that say this are those who don’t really know their music
Fake news.
When they had the original members they were making great music. Once Peter and Ace left it just wasn’t the same
@Fred Wright That's why they went back to the make up. They discovered that, without the gimmicks and the theatrics, their music blew chunks! I was a fan during the 70s. But, they lost me when they ditched Ace and Peter!!
@@HighPower762 They NEVER 'ditched' Ace! Ace QUIT! Twice!
It is common knowledge that Eric Carr played bass on I Still Love You. Bruce Kulick played bass on many songs during his period with the band that were written by Paul. Gene is the sole bass player on Sonic Boom and Monster.
Wow. I actually never knew this. Thanks for the video. I love the 80s kiss era, still prefer 70s.
KISS Was The 1st Concert I attended my brother took me 1976 It Was Awesome !!
who's the drummer on the cover of that edition of creatures ?
Looks like it was 'ipdated' to include Eric Singers face.
never thought about it but you are right
Interesting deep dive.
My era of KISS was the 80s. I have only seen them once in makeup and that was my first show ever in '83 on the Creatures tour ( the Tank Tour) with Night Ranger opening and 23 more times thru to the Revenge tour. At least I can hear bass on KISS 80s lps. They have never been shy about using studio musicians anyway as far back as Destroyer if I'm not wrong. Anyway Gene never claimed to be Bootsy or Jaco,but always had decent basslines anyway. Paul had to keep it together however he could when C level Hollywood came calling for Gene. Liked the video.
Great and interesting video. i have heard that this also applies to the late 70s music too. The song Sure Know Something (from what i read) is recorded and written by Ace. Also, most if not all the bass on Creatures was written and recorded by Ace.
I am curious about some of the weird fingering mentioned in some of these 80s songs. The bass isnt all that difficult in the 70s songs so what could possible be taking place in the 80s songs that would make them difficult to learn? Especially when they are "flat" and vanilla type lines.
I need sources for your Ace claims. If that is true...mind blower.
The song Sure Know Something played by Paul.
Interesting theory seeing as Ace was too bladdered to even drive to the studio
@@austinsangels12345 correct. Ace played bass on Hard Times. Ace also played bass on Torpedo Girl.
I think the 80s (namely Creatures, Lick It Up, and Animalize) were superior to the 70s musically with the possible exception of Destroyer. The band was tighter, more talented with Carr and Vincent/St. John/Kulick, and the songs were better written for the most part. That said, KISS hit its musical zenith with Revenge, IMO, and I was actually disappointed when Stanley and Simmons decided to reunite with Criss and Frehley. That was a disaster from the start.
Is that a real photo of Bruce playing a (Jackson?) AXE bass?
Cool video rock on
Creatures had a great bass mix
I did not know that kiss had a bass player
For me, they peaked in '81 with Music from the Elder...which already showed signs of things not being what they seemed
Why does the 'Creatures Of The Night' album cover you show have Eric Singer and Tommy Faker's face's on it??? 😂
Tommy Faker? Do you mean that awesome fellow that replaced the unreliable drunken arse?
@@stevenlornie1261 yeah, the drunken arse that wrote the Classic leads that Fake Frehley plays every night. You ever wonder why Thayer plays Shock me instead of one of his bullshit songs off Monster or Sonic Boom?
@@sabbathoneseveneight8643
Because his employers tells him to do so. Tommy Thayer is a hired hand. A very talented and best of all, a very reliable guitar player. $immons and Stanley are pleased and 95 % of the fans don’t give a shit.
It's almost like they were more concerned about money rather than a quality product 🤔
Hmmmmmmmmm........
Nooooo.........Not Kiss!
That's not KISS's style at all. Next you'll be saying they sell KISS brand coffins or something...
thats main reason why I cant stand Kiss
“Almost”?!?!
The "Creatures, Lick it Up and Animalize" years are actually my favorite KISS period, when it comes to the music. So whether Gene is playing or not, the songs are still rockin'.
I agree, a lot of cheese (cause 80s) but musicianship wise they had some killer players for those albums.
Those are definitely the best non - Ace albums........
That’s True, I think Gene should of been Kiss manager.
What are you talking about? The bass is clear and audible on the 80's records too. Murder in High-Heels, Secretly Cruel, Good Girl Gone Bad, mentioning just a few songs to check it out. OK it's not as dominant as it was in the 70's but the 80's weren't about the bass guitar overall.
00:44 psst: Bruce played a lot of bass on revenge!!
I like these videos
I remember an interview with Classic Rock magazine back in the early-to-mid 00s where Gene and Paul admit that what you get on the record aint always what you read on the credits. Ultimately, whatever serves the song goes - if Eric Carr plays the Bass better on 'Little Caesar', so be it. If Gene's rhythm guitar playing is better on a different song, then so be it. Why not have complete honesty in the credits? Because it undermines the illusion of the band, makes things officially complicated and causes a potential headache for royalties and publishing. K.I.S.S. - keep it simple, stupid
Its show business. The Grand Illusion. Session players play on all these bands albums. R&R had the wrecking crew. Motown had the funk brothers. S. Rock had muscle shoals swampers. In the 80's through. U had a hand full of Hired Guns to play on the bands albums. Grand Illusion.
Ok...(geek hat going on). You are correct! It’s not Gene! A lot of the bass lines on the 80s stuff were either recorded by Paul Stanley or Eric Carr. This isn’t a secret!
Very cool Man
Because in the 70s , Gene toured with Geddy Lee and realized how hopelessly inadequate he really was at playing bass
Gene has always been a pretty good bass player. So bollocks to that idea.
Greaaatt!
Is it possible that someone is playing a keyboard to substitute the bass? Is that why you say that some of them have weird fingerings?
Using synthbass was quite common in the 80's although rare for rock bands. I think 'Turn on the night' is actually made with a Synth bass, but i'm note 100% sure and there's no isolated track around.
@@PaulDelBelloYT We've all just found out that Ian Hill didn't actually play most of the bass on Judas Priest's Painkiller. It was mostly Don Airey's keyboards used for the low-end.
Good point. Kiss used a lot of synth on 80s albums.
Kiss mtv unplugged has good bass mixed. 👍👍
Paul played the bass in all or at least most of his songs in the 70s. Some of the best bass melodies from that period are Paul's
Unreal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Because lord gene was too busy trying to be an actor at this point.
No because he don't know how to play the bass!
FROM DYNASTY TO PSYCHO CIRCUS
2,000 Man - Ace Frehley on bass
Magic touch - Paul Stanley on bass
Hard Times - Ace Frehley on bass
Shandi - Tom Harper on bass
Talk To Me - Ace Frehley on bass
Tomorrow - Paul Stanley on bass
Two Sides Of The Coin - Ace Frehley on bass
Easy As It Seems - Paul Stanley on bass and guitar solo
Torpedo Girl - Ace Frehley on bass
The Oath - Ace Frehley on bass
Dark Light - Ace Frehley on bass
Escape From The Island - Bob Ezrin on bass
Danger - Jimmy Haslip on bass
I Still Love You - Robben Ford on lead guitar; Eric Carr on bass
Rock And Roll Hell - Robben Ford on lead guitar; Jimmy Haslip on bass
Thrills In The Night - Jean Beauvoir on bass & backing vocals
Get All You Can Take - Jean Beauvoir on bass & backing vocals; Mitch Weissman on ryhthm guitar
Under The Gun - Jean Beauvoir on bass & backing vocals
Heaven's On Fire - Paul Stanley on bass
I've Had Enough (Into The Fire) - Paul Stanley on bass
Lonely Is The Hunter - Bruce Kulick on guitar solo
Murder In High Heels - Bruce Kulick on guitar; Mitch Weissman on bass
While The City Sleeps - Mitch Weissman on ryhthm guitar
Tears Are Falling - Bruce Kulick on bass
Uh! All Night - Jean Beauvoir on bass
Hell Or High Water - Bruce Kulick on bass
Little Caesar - Eric Carr on bass/vocals, Bruce Kulick on all guitars
Forever - Bruce Kulick on bass
Every Time I Look At You - Bruce Kulick on bass
Tough Love - Bruce Kulick on bass
I Will Be There - Bruce Kulick on bass
Rain - Bruce Kulick on bass
Master & Slave - Bruce Kulick on bass
Jungle - Bruce Kulick on bass
It Never Goes Away - Bruce Kulick on bass
I Walk Alone - Bruce Kulick on bass & lead vocals
In The Mirror - Bruce Kulick on bass
Psycho Circus - Bruce Kulick on bass
We Are One - Tommy Thayer on bass
I Finally Found My Way - Bruce Kulick on bass
I Pledge Allegiance - Bruce Kulick on bass
I think it’s Gene on psycho Circus
I’m pretty sure Gene played bass on his own compositions. And some rhythm guitar on his own. But nowhere to be found on Paul’s or any others. This has been going on since mid to late 70’s. As Paul and Ace generally played bass on their own songs. Starting with Love Gun.
I read that a music critic once said that Gene Simmons could play with boxing gloves and it wouldn't hinder his technique.
Please do one on tina weymouth!
It's OK. Some good songs. They had a great career with Kiss, Dressed to Kill, Hotter than Hell, Alive, Rock and Roll Over, Love Gun and Dynasty. It's enough for me. Oh and my favorite Destroyer
One of the best bass tones is KISS live at Royal Albert hall. It’s a wall of ampegs just on the edge of melting
Kiss last good album was Love Gun. After Alive 2 I quit listening to them.
Creatures, Asylum, Lick It Up, Crazy Nights, Revenge, Carnival... your loss. Love Gun is 50% filler. I wouldn't consider it a good album.
ME too!!
Quando era adolescente e descobri essas palhaçadas que o Gene fazia, eu fiquei muito triste... ele está meu herói no contra baixo... mas fazer o que? O KISS sempre teve músicos de estúdio, é só ver o Paycho Circus. 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
Besteira, essas músicas que o gene não gravou por não poder comparecer aos estúdios, ele tira fácil e até melhor ao vivo. Diferente desses músicos de estúdio, gene toca e canta ao mesmo tempo.
Yeah, the 70s vs. 80s Kiss is night n day. I like 80s more though. Eric Carr and Bruce had a very distinct style. Revenge, Asylum and Crazy Night are just fun records.
Who played the bass on "Uh! All Night."? That also sounds like a bass line that's not typical of something Gene would play.
Jean Beauvoir
I dont know but I hear bass on every 80's kiss songs
i actually love the 80's era kiss . Carr, Bruce, And pauls vocals during this time were excellent. they should drop the make-up, bring bruce back and do an 80's music tour....you know because they probably need the $$
Also the almost lack of the bass drum for the Gene Paul produced albums
I think that is changed according to who is writing the song.
For example, Parasite is loaded with bass. I know I am a former bass player.
Now other tracks, Gene is not any better than Nikki Sixx.
I liked the earlier albums.
Songs like Lick It Up are shockingly simple on bass. As in, first two months of playing bass level of simple. In fact Paul here has a video of that song and you can basically play it with one hand as 95% of the song is just banging on an open A string.
I disagree on the bass lines in the 1980s Lick it up had a lot of bass on songs and Animalize did also but maybe not so much on Crazy Nights or Asylum and a long with Hot in the shade those seem more of Paul's albums
So who played the bass on UH ALL NIGHT?
if you want to hear great bass playing listen to geddy lee of rush or steve harris of iron maiden or geezer butler of black sabbath .
Wow. Paul hated Ace and Peter so much that he overlooked Gene not being involved in any studio work in the post 70’s albums. I guess if the band ended with Paul as the only original member he’d have rename the band Foreigner II.
I never noticed it but you're right it's minimalistic & not Gene.
0:36 What the?? They didn't? Did they? Not that the other two versions are accurate either...
If you have a member not pulling weight to the point that bothers are completing their work.. what would be the best slap in the face.
Shit parts done that they would have to play for at least a year if not forever.
I think that was some thoughts behind the missing bass. Kiss is a strange machine.
Because video killed the radio star......and the bass too in the '80s. Bass made a big comeback in the '90s thankfully.
80's Kiss is my favourite, but yeah...if Gene was more focused on the band instead of being a bad actor (his best role was on Miami Vice, that's it.) the material would have been MUCH better.
Tommy "Rip off" Thayer and Eric "Cheater Criss" Singer on the cover of Creatures is BLASPHEME!
I had to go back and check that out and holy crap! That's weird! Why, in the world, would someone do that?
It's not l
I love the singles and videos that promoted the 80’s kiss albums. The rest of the tracks were garbage.
Gene is more of a business man than bass player.
I think various managers wrote most of their songs....
one of the greatest things ive ever seen was Genes animalize bass solo. Like holy fuck, Carr had to go save em.
The drumming isn’t only Eric Carr. They brought in a proper session player.
I only Strutter and Deuce.
WHats weird the songs Sure Know Something and Naked City dont sound like Genes style either. I had to learn both and they dont play like Genes lines did in the 70s. Detroit Rock City and Deuce were Gene, Sure Know Something and Naked City definitely werent Gene playing. He didnt play melodies like that. Im sure Love Gun wasnt him either. Its like two different people were playing. Ive been playing bass for a couple decades and I made it a point to recognize peoples fingerprints on thier playing. I think Paul or some gun for hire came in and played a lot of the bass on the albums.
Gene wasn't a serious bass player what is backup was Paul Stanley and Ace Frehley and you didn't hear the bass lines too good either
No one knows the truth but Paul & Gene.
Paul was smart enough to know without Gene kiss wasn't a band and Gene new that and was very selfish for many years trying to make money other ways.
I think Gene once said " If I could turn back time...if I could find a way." LOL.
He also wore that thong on an aircraft carrier !