This was a good port back in the day. Glad to see people care enough about it to add touches. Especially since Nintendo has gone full monopoly with all their games since they started to make cheap crap consoles. I'm surprised to see these projects not being taken down or banned too. Home computers were the only real way to play Donkey Kong other than Colecovision which was very decent. I loved comparing all the different versions of Atari Soft ports to each other and the arcades. None were perfect and needed work. Projects like this bring more of what could have been.
It's amazing getting to see what the machine can do when ROM and RAM prices don't screw up game quality. Everyone thinks the C64 was better because the games often looked better, but the memory was the biggest reason for the games looking better. The 400 originally shipped with 8K of memory, but I don't think anyone left them at 8K. I bought quite a few 400s back in the 90s when they were cheap, and they all had at least 16K. Programmers had to make sure their software could run within that 16K. The ROMs were also expensive so there was management pressure to make the games smaller, but that pressure lowered as the prices dropped. Being release 3 years later gave the C64 more memory, and a slightly better CPU.
Very well said, Zax. It's quite amazing how capable those Atari 400's were if you consider how early they were released and how LONG they stuck around!
It truly amazes me how so many DK ports were criticized as being too slow while the modified and original version runs super fast compared to any other computer version of the day.
I guess it’s just a simple color hack,but it’s atleast something,BUT now it’s time for an improvement for the ti99 version of it because the ti99 version does lack animated sprites, in order to fix that without wasting extra memory space for that is the flip those fire balls and the fire from those oil barrels back & forth quick to fake animated tile sets of it,would be very cool to see that happen.
@@artbell259 Actually, the ladders are closer to the arcade teal than they are in the original. The girders do use the lighter color, but due to being limited to 4 colors, the selection of colors were tricky. For example, Donkey Kong is the same color as the girders. Darker blue looks badly in the fireballs/firefoxes and barrels. So, there had to be a compromise. The girders cannot be more pink like the arcade. Mario cannot differ too much from the girders, because the hammer becomes part of Mario when he swings it. The hammer shares the same color. This wasn't as much of an issue in the original, because colors were limited in the playfield. For example, the barrels and fireballs were only utilizing 2 colors instead of 3. A Few Changes: 1. All of the players are drawn to match the arcade as closely as possible, given the color, resolution, and width limitations of the Atari player missile graphics. Donkey Kong is drawn as closely as possible given the limitations of the software sprite (He is a mirrored image). 2. There are now fireballs and firefoxes, instead of a combo enemy. 3. Colors increased in enemies, as the software sprites didn't have the ability to reproduce one of the 3 colors available. 4. Mario used to be drawn with 3 players. He is now two overlapping, saving a player for #5. 5. The free'd player allows for multi-color bonus items. 6. A white missile is used to give Donkey Kong white teeth and eyes, as there are no playfield colors left. 7. Girders, rivets, elevator mechs, and other playfield objects are drawn closer to arcade specs. If there's a difference, there's usually a reason that effected something else. That is how the old system limitations worked. 8. Intro moved to game start. 9. Conveyor Belt level has updated graphics not shown in this video. 10. RMT music was used in one version.
@@nsdeg1970 wow loads of work and thinking has gone into this project. I like the brighter more solid look to the sprites in the building level. The Atari never got the respect is deserved vs the c64, it's versions of games were usually superior. Now it has me thinking how the newer C64 version of kong compares. It is amazing the respect the colecovision version of kong received when the Atari version was so good to start with. I'll seek out the longplay, curious about the conveyor belt level. This is cool to see, like the original extra level in coleco Adam's 'super donkey kong'
Darryl Guenther I too prefer the more red girders and would gladly trade that colour for a more red donkey Kong like the original, but I’m not complaining as I know there are severe limitations and that you must have put a massive amount of work into this. It’s really fantastic and other than the red colour change I think every other element you changed is a big improvement on what already my favourite classic home port - I believe I played them all, and even won a donkey Kong arcade contest back in the 80’s. The Atari port was always the fastest and smoothest home version. Thanks for doing this.
There's no room for that extra platform level in the 192 scanlines Atari cartridges are allowed to have. (I did quite a few layouts of it, even considered doing some vertical scrolling, but removing the platform was the right call in my opinion).
This is not an Atarisoft release.but an Atari release. The name Atarisoft was reserved for software that Atari made for competing systems. I hated Atarisoft.
@@atariandre5014 They did some nice VIC 20 stuff but not really that good on my C64 back then either like Pac-man vs Puck-man or Ocean's disk/tape release of Donkey Kong.
@@landondyer You did an amazing job! This was the best version available back in the early 80's and I played it a ton. Funny how the animation of Kong jumping across the girders wasn't part of starting the game. I didn't even know it existed until one day when I left the game on while I was working on something else. It was an exiting discovery.
Without seeing the source code, this is a guess. But a guess from someone who use to program the Atari 400/800/130XE and knew the system forwards and backwards. So here is my simple answer -> WHAT extra colors? Let's see, the background and the fire creatures use the bit mapped graphics capability of the Atari. The colors used in the 1983 version are black, light blue, yellow, and dark brown. Kong is dark brown and yellow. The girl is dark brown, yellow, and light blue. The beams are light blue. The fire creatures are dark brown and light blue. The colors used in the 2018 version for background and creatures are black, dark brown (but not as dark as the 1983 version which is a bit on the reddish side), flesh colored brown, and light blue. The barrels are flesh colored brown, blue, and dark brown. The beams are dark brown. Hence both versions are using 4 colors. For details, they are using the same resolution so my guess is that they looked more detailed because they used a different color scheme for some of the things (fire on the 1983 is black, dark brown, and blue while the 2018 they're blue, dark brown, and flesh colored), so it's your perception that's different. For Mario 2018 they put together 2 sprites which can be used to create a 3 colored sprite. The objects around the place are the same dark blue as Mario. The beams are light blue and flesh colored. Again, 4 colored background or "monsters", 2 or 3 colored sprite for the items Mario picks up (using the same trick, 2 sprites put together can make a 3 colored sprite, 3 colored Mario that used 2 sprites to create. So no, the 2018 version doesn't have more colors nor is it higher resolution.
I've heard this machines graphic capabilities described, but even if I remembered (only 8-bit atari - don't remember which model, could be this - graphics modes I remember were modes where you could have x number of colours with varying hue but same brightness and one with same number of varying brightness but same hue colours - I found it to be interesting enough to at least remember that such modes existed, but not the model or how many x actually was :D), I don't think the information was detailed enough to explain this, so: How come two sprites create a 3 colour combination sprite, and not 4 or 2? I thought of two different possibilities and both are likely wrong: 1) the sprites are two colour, but one colour is shared between all spirites. 2) the sprites are single colour and the third colour depends on the video output being composite (in other words, it uses composite colour artifacts, a common trick to achieve extra colours in machines from C-64 to PC with CGA card). Now, do tell, was I even close? What's the real explanation? 🤗
I actually thought the newer one had better colours... Just shows how differently two people can feel about things that might sound like something that everyone would see the same - washed out colours sounds like objectively worst, but to me they don't look washed out but cleaner and more pleasing. Weird.
I mean, there is some improvement...and honestly, I'll buy it maybe being a waste of time..but a SHOCKING waste...that i'm not buying. A SHOCKING waste of time was replying to your comment about it being a SHOCKING waste of time to watch the video, or to play the updated Kong..wait..maybe it was SHOCKING to even program IN the updates? I'm SHOCKINGLY confused.
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.83[2/2] ประสบการณ์ขนหัวลุกจากตำนานวงการผี!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T_kFecQw7Ds/mqdefault.jpg)
GD! The Atari 800 w@s the best machine made, in 1979!
Slick editing to show them both (usually) doing the same thing. Thumbs up.
I just noticed that at 1:04 the 2018 mario was spinning regularly but at 1:10 the 1983 mario was flip spinning around like paper mario, so weird
This was a good port back in the day. Glad to see people care enough about it to add touches. Especially since Nintendo has gone full monopoly with all their games since they started to make cheap crap consoles. I'm surprised to see these projects not being taken down or banned too. Home computers were the only real way to play Donkey Kong other than Colecovision which was very decent. I loved comparing all the different versions of Atari Soft ports to each other and the arcades. None were perfect and needed work. Projects like this bring more of what could have been.
Love the update - the Original was SO awesome for 1983 though!
Agreed!
I used to have the cartridge of this on my 800xl its a pretty good conversion used to play all the time, the new update looks a bit nicer.
I love how the 1983 donkey Kong looks like a bear
A sad teddybear! I think it was a good idea to correct this.
It's amazing getting to see what the machine can do when ROM and RAM prices don't screw up game quality. Everyone thinks the C64 was better because the games often looked better, but the memory was the biggest reason for the games looking better. The 400 originally shipped with 8K of memory, but I don't think anyone left them at 8K. I bought quite a few 400s back in the 90s when they were cheap, and they all had at least 16K. Programmers had to make sure their software could run within that 16K. The ROMs were also expensive so there was management pressure to make the games smaller, but that pressure lowered as the prices dropped. Being release 3 years later gave the C64 more memory, and a slightly better CPU.
Very well said, Zax. It's quite amazing how capable those Atari 400's were if you consider how early they were released and how LONG they stuck around!
It truly amazes me how so many DK ports were criticized as being too slow while the modified and original version runs super fast compared to any other computer version of the day.
I guess it’s just a simple color hack,but it’s atleast something,BUT now it’s time for an improvement for the ti99 version of it because the ti99 version does lack animated sprites, in order to fix that without wasting extra memory space for that is the flip those fire balls and the fire from those oil barrels back & forth quick to fake animated tile sets of it,would be very cool to see that happen.
No more sad kongs, Yay!
No more teddybears!
Very nice video, guys! Paul Lay is the master of the 8bits! (Atari 8bits)
1983 vs 2018 Donkey Kong
depressed kong to angry kong
So if this is called arcade why is he on the wrong side?
Awesome!!!! Where can I get the rom? Or cart?
Here you go! atariage.com/forums/topic/267300-my-8-bit-computer-5200-hacks/?p=3797543
I actually prefer the original, in a lot of ways - especially the colors, which aren’t as washed out as the newer version...
I'd like to see a list of changes, the mario sprite is taller, the barrels taller too it appears - the new 'blues' are not accurate
@@artbell259 Actually, the ladders are closer to the arcade teal than they are in the original. The girders do use the lighter color, but due to being limited to 4 colors, the selection of colors were tricky. For example, Donkey Kong is the same color as the girders. Darker blue looks badly in the fireballs/firefoxes and barrels. So, there had to be a compromise. The girders cannot be more pink like the arcade. Mario cannot differ too much from the girders, because the hammer becomes part of Mario when he swings it. The hammer shares the same color.
This wasn't as much of an issue in the original, because colors were limited in the playfield. For example, the barrels and fireballs were only utilizing 2 colors instead of 3.
A Few Changes:
1. All of the players are drawn to match the arcade as closely as possible, given the color, resolution, and width limitations of the Atari player missile graphics. Donkey Kong is drawn as closely as possible given the limitations of the software sprite (He is a mirrored image).
2. There are now fireballs and firefoxes, instead of a combo enemy.
3. Colors increased in enemies, as the software sprites didn't have the ability to reproduce one of the 3 colors available.
4. Mario used to be drawn with 3 players. He is now two overlapping, saving a player for #5.
5. The free'd player allows for multi-color bonus items.
6. A white missile is used to give Donkey Kong white teeth and eyes, as there are no playfield colors left.
7. Girders, rivets, elevator mechs, and other playfield objects are drawn closer to arcade specs. If there's a difference, there's usually a reason that effected something else. That is how the old system limitations worked.
8. Intro moved to game start.
9. Conveyor Belt level has updated graphics not shown in this video.
10. RMT music was used in one version.
@@nsdeg1970 wow loads of work and thinking has gone into this project. I like the brighter more solid look to the sprites in the building level. The Atari never got the respect is deserved vs the c64, it's versions of games were usually superior. Now it has me thinking how the newer C64 version of kong compares. It is amazing the respect the colecovision version of kong received when the Atari version was so good to start with. I'll seek out the longplay, curious about the conveyor belt level. This is cool to see, like the original extra level in coleco Adam's 'super donkey kong'
Darryl Guenther I too prefer the more red girders and would gladly trade that colour for a more red donkey Kong like the original, but I’m not complaining as I know there are severe limitations and that you must have put a massive amount of work into this. It’s really fantastic and other than the red colour change I think every other element you changed is a big improvement on what already my favourite classic home port - I believe I played them all, and even won a donkey Kong arcade contest back in the 80’s. The Atari port was always the fastest and smoothest home version. Thanks for doing this.
Apart from the fact that the colors are a bit brighter what’s the difference
Some of the sprites have been re drawn (donkey kong, mario, fireballs) to more closely resemble the arcade.
Wow amazing
0:19 creepy face on 2018
Shame they didn't add back the missing platform on level 1 of the game that Atarisoft removed when converting it. Other than that it's quite nice.
There's no room for that extra platform level in the 192 scanlines Atari cartridges are allowed to have. (I did quite a few layouts of it, even considered doing some vertical scrolling, but removing the platform was the right call in my opinion).
This is not an Atarisoft release.but an Atari release. The name Atarisoft was reserved for software that Atari made for competing systems. I hated Atarisoft.
@@atariandre5014 They did some nice VIC 20 stuff but not really that good on my C64 back then either like Pac-man vs Puck-man or Ocean's disk/tape release of Donkey Kong.
@@landondyer You did an amazing job! This was the best version available back in the early 80's and I played it a ton. Funny how the animation of Kong jumping across the girders wasn't part of starting the game. I didn't even know it existed until one day when I left the game on while I was working on something else. It was an exiting discovery.
How did they get all of those extra colors in the 2018 version and better details, too!
Without seeing the source code, this is a guess. But a guess from someone who use to program the Atari 400/800/130XE and knew the system forwards and backwards. So here is my simple answer -> WHAT extra colors?
Let's see, the background and the fire creatures use the bit mapped graphics capability of the Atari.
The colors used in the 1983 version are black, light blue, yellow, and dark brown. Kong is dark brown and yellow. The girl is dark brown, yellow, and light blue. The beams are light blue. The fire creatures are dark brown and light blue.
The colors used in the 2018 version for background and creatures are black, dark brown (but not as dark as the 1983 version which is a bit on the reddish side), flesh colored brown, and light blue. The barrels are flesh colored brown, blue, and dark brown. The beams are dark brown.
Hence both versions are using 4 colors. For details, they are using the same resolution so my guess is that they looked more detailed because they used a different color scheme for some of the things (fire on the 1983 is black, dark brown, and blue while the 2018 they're blue, dark brown, and flesh colored), so it's your perception that's different.
For Mario 2018 they put together 2 sprites which can be used to create a 3 colored sprite. The objects around the place are the same dark blue as Mario. The beams are light blue and flesh colored. Again, 4 colored background or "monsters", 2 or 3 colored sprite for the items Mario picks up (using the same trick, 2 sprites put together can make a 3 colored sprite, 3 colored Mario that used 2 sprites to create.
So no, the 2018 version doesn't have more colors nor is it higher resolution.
I've heard this machines graphic capabilities described, but even if I remembered (only 8-bit atari - don't remember which model, could be this - graphics modes I remember were modes where you could have x number of colours with varying hue but same brightness and one with same number of varying brightness but same hue colours - I found it to be interesting enough to at least remember that such modes existed, but not the model or how many x actually was :D), I don't think the information was detailed enough to explain this, so:
How come two sprites create a 3 colour combination sprite, and not 4 or 2? I thought of two different possibilities and both are likely wrong:
1) the sprites are two colour, but one colour is shared between all spirites.
2) the sprites are single colour and the third colour depends on the video output being composite (in other words, it uses composite colour artifacts, a common trick to achieve extra colours in machines from C-64 to PC with CGA card).
Now, do tell, was I even close? What's the real explanation? 🤗
Interesting port. The newer one looks better but the colours look all washed out and not as appealing, at least for me.
When the monsters go by ladders, the graphics merge in both versions. I wish they would have fixed that flaw.
I actually thought the newer one had better colours... Just shows how differently two people can feel about things that might sound like something that everyone would see the same - washed out colours sounds like objectively worst, but to me they don't look washed out but cleaner and more pleasing. Weird.
Even the original atari 400/800 version simply throws the nes version out of the water,
Shame on the nes version.
NES made..an odd choice..haha.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
the 83 version looks better
Yeah
How
Ever have to meet City in Roblox need to stop hacking games
Roznice słabo widac, wiec po co przepłacac :)
Old version is better.
I will say, even the original plays a good game of DK.
that's supposed to be an improvement ? … what a shocking waste of time..
I mean, there is some improvement...and honestly, I'll buy it maybe being a waste of time..but a SHOCKING waste...that i'm not buying. A SHOCKING waste of time was replying to your comment about it being a SHOCKING waste of time to watch the video, or to play the updated Kong..wait..maybe it was SHOCKING to even program IN the updates? I'm SHOCKINGLY confused.
@@AmigosRetroGaming can't make the game have as much colour all those years later ? C'mon c'mon there's a good fellow...
*_Its identical_*
Maybe you should watch it again.