Thank you so much for NOT using fake robot text-to-speech voice overs. This is the first video of yours that I have watched, and now I look forward to watching (and listening) to more!
The 'fake robot' voiceovers are usually used by people who have different accents than the usual US/UK/AU/EU accents, who have determined that text-to-speech works better than their actual voices.
@@deus_ex_machina_ - no, most are just lazy and/or using stolen content. So the mute the original audio and use test-to-speech to quickly bash out a video quickly.
This! So much this! Really at this point I kinda think it is a troll by the manufacturers. Like yeah we could easily do that, no problem, but what about fully linked navigation and entertainment systems? Computer controlled ride height? Customizable displays? What, you guys just want your turn signal to turn off after you turn!?!? Why don't you just buy a car then, these are motorcycles.
The classic Piaggio Vespas had a lot of innovations that never caught on elsewhere, which is why I enjoy them so much. Aside from the twist grip shifting, they used a trailing arm front suspension, front and rear wheels were interchangeable, and both were as easy to remove and install as an automobile. The frame is monocoque, the rear suspension is the engine case so there's no separate drivetrain, and every cable, wire, and tube is routed internally. It was designed from the ground up to be the world's most practical utilitarian two wheeled vehicle.
The grip shifts used to be pretty common on vintage mopeds in Sweden. They were made in the thousands to the point where you can look on any second hand website and within a day have a 500$ moped from 1968 that’s in near perfect condition. As I said before, a lot of them (especially the early models) had grip shifts, which are notorious for being absolutely awful to use. They make your hand tired and it’s pretty finicky to use. My 1975 mustang 617 sport has a grip shift clutch assembly, but thankfully the zundapp 278 engine it came with has a pedal shift.
Bajaj scooters from India also use twist grips. It's way too easy to accidentally shift gears while turning or under heavy breaking. Or maybe it's just because the one I rode was about 30 years old
In the 60/70 and 80's where a lot of small 50cc Mopeds using that kind of Grip shift from 2, 3 and even 4 gear versions. So its absolutley nothing which only Piaggion has used. But due to the iconic design that is one of those that is best known around the world.
They also go out of adjustment due to cable stretch, and can randomly drop into gear while sitting and running. I learned that the hard way when I was diagnosing a hanging idle on a stella, rev it up and BAM scooter is at 12oclock 5ft away from you.
You forgot air bags. The Gold Wing had them as an option. It sounds silly, but if you watch it in action, it makes a ton of sense. It's designed to keep you from flying over the bars in a T-bone collision with a car.
I wish I could remember the video... One about motorcycle safety innovations like that which could be made if manufacturers wanted to. Advanced things like those airbags, as well as more basic things like designing the tank area so that flying over the bars doesn't cause groin injuries, etc. Much could be done, tbh.
My experience with twist grip shifters was that they were awkward to use, particularly after a bit of wear which could make them a bit clunky and imprecise.
And it's not a girder fork, as was stated in the video. Norman Hossack described it as a "steered upright". @LoosiuFlying BMW waited until Hossack's patent expired, before producing their overweight and over complicated version.
Someone else has probably already mentioned it, but on the Guzzi linked brake system, it did have two independent systems. The foot pedal operates the rear and one front disk, the handlebar lever engaged the second front disk.
@Phil Davies - As did the Goldwing from 1981 -2000 (rear with right front brake, 'balancing' side to side) which was NOT the best idea for lowered adhesion surfaces. such as sand, snow, rain or grass clippings! After the 2nd ride on my 1986 Goldwing (late-February in northern Illinois) where it unexpectedly snowed through my 40 mile ride home, and I inherently skidded the front tire while using only the foot brake (that'll definitely make your butt pucker something fierce!) I decided to split my braking on that bike the proper way by summer. With the 1800 series, the calipers themselves were split ( 3 piston or 6, I don't remember) so the center front pistons and the outer rear pistons were operated by the foot control and the outer front and center rear pistons were by the hand control. This way the stronger front/ weaker rear balance was by hand with stronger rear/ weaker front by foot, giving a 'balanced' linked-braking with a feel closer to a non-linked system. As for the Guzzi linked system, I've heard that in some markets (definitely not U.S./ North American) there was no 2nd system, all braking was by the pedal. That would never fly in the States because there is a DOT requirement (since 1968) for multiple brake systems - just in case of one failing - on all street legal vehicles.
I still have a 87 California 2 with this -at that time- innovative break system. And it is really well working, once you get used to it. The 40:60 share between the back and left front break enables nice decelerations without any risk of blocking. And with the second front disc on the hand lever you can reinforce this, or just use it in stop and go as the only break.
early 1980's yamaha venture royal, had linked brakes, as does honda's VFR800, in fact my 09 VFR8000 has linked brakes and ABS. In EU all new bikes must have either linked brakes or abs, so many lightweight bikes have linked brakes to keep the costs down.
@@MadMaxxMoto - I don't now about other markets, but Moto-Guzzis sold in Britain had the 'one front + the rear disc' operated by the pedal, and the second front operated by the hand brake lever. As to the balance between the two brakes, when you pressed the foot pedal, 60% of the hydraulic pressure went to the front disc, with 40% to the rear. I rode my Moto-Guzzi all year round, including on icy and snowy roads, and never had a problem with either wheel locking up.
@@Herr_Bone Great to hear you like it. My 85 Lario still has linked system and once used to it you never find an issue. Confuses the heck out of NZ WoF issuers though as they struggle to understand why and how it works,
Oval pistons were Honda’s attempt to get around the MotoGP rules that limited manufacturers to 4 cylinders/pistons, and get more valve area so as to make more HP
My Honda Varadero has linked brakes. Pulling the front brakes, brakes front 75%, and back 25%. And the reverse is also true. Works on tar and dirt. And I think it is better than expensive ABS.
One friend of mine spent 2 years working for Honda racing, he said the inside name for "NR" was Never ready. Honda spent way too long and too much money and although I'm sure technology was gained, it was a waste of time.
@@davidgibbings6085 I seem to remember they were 4 piece rings, did not last long but they were built for racing not road use, so did not matter as long as they lasted the race.
Did anyone mention thta the Honda cub certainly caught on as it simply is the best selling motorbike in the world. Including all versions of bikes using the same engine and semi automatic clutch, more than 100 MILLION have been already sold... and the story goes on !!
Interesting video. However, I reckon BMW's telelever front suspension has made it into the mainstream and definitely has it's advantages on the road with regard to separating suspension and braking effects
Yes, I love that my front end doesn’t dive when I brake my big GS. I once heard a criticism that it makes the front end feel dead, but it’s dead nuts reliable to me.
Buell's bikes were full of funny innovations that never really went anywhere outside of that brand, but I think the one that makes the most sense to be adopted by other manufacturers were the Zero Torsional Load brakes. They're not ridiculously complicated, they just take a traditional brake setup and tweak it. And they work well. Buell and EBR raced successfully with them.
Zero torsional load brakes ? What the fuck are those?! Buell ran a perimeter brake on the front wheel on 2004 models and up. Rear brakes were standard single piston.
@@taitsmith8521 ZTL brakes ... are perimeter brakes.... cos the disk is mounted on the wheels perimeter it meant no torsional load went through the ‘spokes’... meaning the wheel could be much lighter... The rear is driven obvs so had torsional load anyway... hence normal brakes
@@Obvsaninternetexpert I've never heard the term used before ( ZTL). The corporate people at Harley really strangled Buell. It could have been a lot more than it was. I wish EBR would come out with a middleweight bike.
@@Obvsaninternetexpert I had a 2000 X1 for about 10 years. Tuber model, prior to the perimeter brake rotors, but still, it was a great bike. Used Buells go for cheap, just plan on being your own mechanic.
Greetings from India.. We still have some of the features you mentioned in the video common sight on our roads.. 1. Left hand side grip gear shifters are still used on some scooters and three - wheeler auto rikshaw (Tuk -Tuk) to this day.. 2. Combined front and rear brakes are a common feature on modern bikes in India, but you also have a seperate front brake on these motorbikes and scooters. It's only when you press the rear brake the combined brakes are triggered, my Honda CD110 has this. 3. TVS tried to make the clutch less automatic transmission mainstream with the TVS Jive but that didn't attracted many buyers so it was ditched... Great video BTW..
I literally had this exact same thought as he talked about it. EXPLAIN the advantages, don’t just TELL me. Motorcycle makers haven’t done it for a REASON
BMW has built their Telelever, then Duolever/Paralever suspension, still in some models, for over 25 years. It's in my 2007 K1200S hot rod. The bike will not wobble, even tipped in over potholes and the front end barely dives, even when the Brembos are clamping speed down with prejudice. Straight line or when in a corner, it's like the bike is on rails. On does need to keep ahead of the machine, as "twitchy" is not an adjective used when describing its handling.
Most mopeds back in 70s and 80s (yes, I'm that old 🙂) had manual gearbox selectors, like the Vespa's. It is indeed very, very old. And quite horrible. Speaking from years of experience it shifts slow, cables tend to get out of tune and it will be difficult if the bike has more than 4 gears. Als the angle of the clutch handle changes, ergonomically also not great. So there are good reasons this type of gear selection disappeared.
Well.... de gustibus etc coloribus non EST disputandum.... I've learned riding with my father's Iso Diva, four gears on the left grip, and, with 10 years old hands ....it was not the best. But motorcycles are for ( or intended, at least....) for grown ups! I find it comfortable for the kind of ride a scooter can give you. Wouldn't want that on a race bike or enduro of course, but the system proved to be ok for that kind of bikes... Clean, cheap, reliable, and easy to fix and maintain. Cheers!
The Gold Wing platforms have had linked brakes for years. Works well with or without ABS option. You still have independent controls that distribute breaking forces differently. The work fantastic stopping the weight of the bike, gear and two passengers. ...
Grip shift was very common on 50cc mopeds in Europe. I doubt it would be an improvement as it requires 2 cables. I feel a foot shifter just gives you better feedback. Also on my bike with 6 gears, you would have to rotate the shift (AND THE CLUTCH HANDLE) between 7 positions. This would leave the clutch handle in very inconvenient positions.
IIRC there were even three cables, one for the clutch and two for shifting up and down. I remember using it on mopeds and always found it awkward and clumsy. Never seen it used with more than 4 positions( 3 gear). Early Puch , Sachs ,Kreidler, Zundapp and Flandria are a few brands that come to mind to have this "feature".
I can see an updated version working, though, using ride-by-wire technology rather than mechanical cables, and a sequential up/down shift pattern just like foot shifters. Although if the objective is to make changing gear a one-limb operation instead of two, I guess quickshifters/blippers do a pretty good job.
Got a chance to ride a 1995 BMW RS-1000 with the telelever front end. It was absolute magic for hard late braking and, especially, trail braking. Very confidence inspiring and sold me on the idea. It wasn't a gimmick, it really works.
Back in the late 70’s I purchased a Husqvarna 390 Automatic I used in scrambles and enduros. It had a 4 speed gearbox, went up and down gears just like an automatic car. I believe it was used by the Swedish Army as well. It was a great reliable competitive bike in its day.
The Husqvarna Automatic won the NETRA and AMA Enduro championships in the 80s. One dealer in New England was adapting them for a number of riders with 1 arm. Really.
Didn't Husky also locate the throttle as well as the clutch lever on the left side of the handlebar so as to free up the right hand of the rider to...shoot?
In the 1980s I had a Czechoslovakian-made CZ 175 that featured a push-rod that ran through the centre of the crankcase, linked to a cam on the pivot of the gear pedal. When you moved the pedal to change gear it would automatically disengage the clutch, so you could just flick through the gears without having to touch the handlebar clutch lever. It was simple, reliable and easy to use, but I've never seen that feature on any other motorcycle.
Good example! Wasn't it also the case that on the Jawa and CZ bikes, a single lever served as the shifter and kick starter? A typical example from the Iron Curtain period. Either technical innovations were not known in the West or they were not taken seriously. Or the engineers developed great concepts that were not approved by the old men of the state apparatus. Before the VW Golf, the GDR could have had a modern compact car with a large trunk lid (Wartburg 355/Trabant P1100) - no approval. Instead, cars with two-stroke engines were built until just before the end. A shortage of materials, a lack of funds and unreasonable politicians made life difficult for the engineers. They have our respect that they have quietly developed ingenious solutions again and again, in the two-wheel sector e.g. at Jawa/CZ, MZ and Simson. Mostly, unfortunately, hidden under an old-fashioned design, making the models difficult to sell in western markets. MZ, for example, were distributed by Neckermann in the Federal Republic of Germany and were considered a cheap vehicle for students.
@@Volker_GR Yes, now you mention it, that's true. You pushed the gear pedal in, flipped it over backwards, and it became the kickstarter. It was a fun bike; not massively reliable and sometimes a bit reluctant to start, but nice to ride and incredibly tough, like it was built out of ex-Soviet tank parts. I had forest tyres on it, and it would go pretty much anywhere that my mates' Yamaha DT175 would go.
I had a Kawasaki GPz 750 turbo in the mid 80s and have fond memories of it. The turbo unit was made by Panasonic and spun to something like 100k, but I never recall it being leery, no dramatic power-band; yes a litre bike was as quick and less complicated, but at the time the turbo seemed space age!
@@RogerBarraud I think that’s true Roger. At the time, I was torn between the turbo and the then just released GPz900, but I’m glad I owned the turbo since it felt special, and now they fetch quite a bit of cash.
My dad's neighbour had one and he rode it like a pussy never above 2000rpm,My father challenged him,apparently he didn't know what a turbo was or what it did,He just liked the word TURBO on his bike unfortunately when the turbo kicked in it would SHIT HIM UP, So rode below the turbo boost
@@Johnketes54 lol, The Gpzs we're nice....Saw a twin set being sold not long ago. But they had high miles & kinda beat up, for the price. I opted for a 82 Suzuki GS 750E & I'm happy I did. By far the smoothest bike I've ever owned..Overall, I like it much more than my 82 CBX, but the sound of the CBX is by far the best sounding bike I've ever owned. I wouldn't mind owning that turbo Kawasaki now
My brother had one and he was more than a little worried on checking the registration when he got it home to find out he was the fifth owner in just over a year particularly given its very low mileage. He soon found out why... It was a complete dog and over half the mileage he put on it was riding it home and then riding it back to the Kawasaki dealer to demand his money back. Kawasaki were obviously having a bad day when they made it or, and this was our favourite theory, the dealer had done something stupid so he had to keep trying to re-sell it as the importer wouldn't take it back.
The twist grip gear change was used on a number of scooter style bikes. MV Augusta made a version. Husqvarna made dirt bikes with automatic transmissions. Originally designed for the military but excellent on sand.
Back in the 1970s I had a German moped made by 'Hercules'. It had a 2 speed transmission which was selected by twisting the clutch lever assembly. You could also way that this technology is widely used on bicycles with twist grip shifting 🙂
Here in the Netherlands there a whole lot of "brommers", 50cc mopeds with a legal max speed of 40 kmh that had handshifting, not only European and Dutch brands using Puch, JLO etc engines but also big brands like Zundapp and Kreidler . Kreidler became world champion 50cc with a foot actuated AND a handlebar actuated gearbox liked behind each other to get enough different speeds to cope with the narrow power band of the Kreidler engine. Also Honda 4stroke and Yamaha with handlebar gear change were well sold in our country.
My first two wheeled vehicle was a 1966 Vespa Smallframe. The CC’s went up after that as I finished high school and wanted to travel outside of school, town and scooter rallies. But of all my vehicles my Vespa’s and Lambretta’s are still my number one favourite way to travel.
Ok, the guzzi system was two separate systems. The rear brake pedal operated the rear brake and one front disc, the handlebar lever operated the other disc.
I have an '84 Moto Guzzi Monza with this system. As Fred says it's two brake systems. The foot brake operates the smaller rear wheel disk and one of the front disks. The handlebar lever operates the other front disk. On dry pavement getting on the brakes hard will lock the rear wheel first. You do have to be careful on gravel and wet leaves so as not to lock the front wheel. Gentle use of the foot brake is usually sufficient. On a twisty mountain downhill run the system really shines and bikes with twice the engine capacity have to work hard to keep up.
@@aceroadholder2185 Pshaw. Linked systems have no place on a motorcycle, imo. Any experienced rider knows that in a low grip situation they might want rear brake only and linked system says they can't have it. I'll decide which brake to use, when and how much, tyvm. I believe linked systems are the devil's work and I'll play no part in such evil. Linked systems get thee behind me!
@@alandavies55 Panthers also had linked brakes on the heavyweight machines in the 30s and 40s. Like the Rudge the system was cable operated and could be removed if desired.
I started riding in 1960 . My first bike was an NSU Quick. It used a dial a shift twist grip on the left handle bar. The Alstate moped manufactured by Puch also had dial a shift system.
No it was a Quick. NSU started producing the Quick in the late 1930s. The Quickly was a later design based on a step through frame . The Quick had a 98 cc engine while the Quickly had a 49 cc engine.
@@polarpilot1 so the quick was quicker then the quickly, sounds quick to me...... Were those dial a shift twist groups put in place to keep a hand clear to carry bags?
Twistgripps was quite common in Europe in the 1950s and 1960s, on small bikes, usualy 50-175 cc. I have had with both 2-3-4 gear models, but man, was it good to get it to hand and foot!
European mopeds up to 60 kph max speed had 2 or 3 gear grip shifters. By the late 70s these were almost completely replaced by centrifugal clutch or variomatic automatic transmissions like in scooters.
I owned a Moto Guzzi with the dual braking system and I loved it. The foot pedal operated front and back disks. 60% braking force to the front wheel, and 40 to the back. Very useful in wet slippery conditions. The front brake handle was totally separate as normal.
I also own a Guzzi with linked brakes, my understanding is link brakes prevent driveshaft jacking when braking into a corner. The linked brakes was only used on guzzi's cruisers, not the sport or sport touring bikes.
I own a California, and I think the linked brakes work brilliant for the riding style. It keeps the motorcycle level even during emergency braking. Also, with the foot pedal it's easier to brake hard, in combination with the hand operated front brake. During emergency stops, the hand operated front brake is easier to reach, but less effective, in practice you kind of "pre brake" with the hand lever and add the other front and rear brake with your foot. When familiarizing myself with this on an empty parking lot I found that I could stop just as fast as a modern abs bike, without losing traction.
I think the pedal worked the rear brake & one of the front brakes, while the handlebar lever worked the other front brake. Well I know some Guzzis worked that way.
Great video! With regard to linked brakes, I use my front brake in most situations and would benefit from linked brakes most of the time to improve and simplify the process of slowing down and stopping. However,it would have to work in a specific way to be practical . Linking the front (hand) brake to the rear (foot) brake makes sense especially with ABS. You could more quickly grab a handful of brake and either modulate it or clamp down to deliberately achieve a rapid deceleration or stop. But, on the other hand, linking the rear brake to the front brake does not work because when you are descending a steep grade on a graveled, wet or otherwise slippery road surface you need to apply the rear brake only to drag the bike to a stop and avoid the massive forward weight shift caused by application of the front brake so as to maintain your balance and preserve as much steering traction and control as possible.
I had a 1984 Guzzi V65C with linked brakes. The bike braked extremely well and never locked up a wheel. I felt totally safe even in the few times I got caught in rain. Had to sell the bike to pay for college, miss it to this day...
Regarding number 8, BMW had telelever front suspension on a lot of bikes for many years didn't they? Are they still doing it? Seemed to work quite well to eliminate fork dive under braking. It wasn't terribly complicated either, so I never understood why it didn't catch on more.
About the 'grip shift'. Back in the 50's and 60's nearly all makes of scooters used this feature, with the odd exception, namely the NSU 5 Star Prima. This had 2 pedals that stuck up through the floorboards and was basically a heel & toe shifter. Nearly all the other brands of scooters and mopeds used the grip shift. I had a Vicky 50cc moped with a 2 sp as did most mopeds. (Mopeds in those days were really mopeds, ie with motor and pedals, typically 50 cc). Scooters, on the other hand, typically 100-250 cc used 3 sp grip shift. Brands such as NSU Prima, (not the previously mentioned 5 star), Puch, Zundapp Bella, Triumph Tigress and its BSA sister, Vespa and Lambretta as you mentioned, Piatti and many more. The most notable exception was the DKW Hobby, probably the first fully automatic using expanding pulleys and a v-belt. This was just under 100 cc, I think about 98 cc. Sadly very few of these brands still exist.
As do the Italian motorcycle brands,Laverda immediately come to mind,The Laverda Jota triple was for a few months the fastest production motorcycle in the world until the Japanese took it back with the Z1000
I think a modest turbo on a small displacement bike makes sense. It may not it may be too heavy but adding a turbo to a thumper or 250-300 could be good.
Yes Bart, you've said it all , right there: The '80's was the PINNACLE" of motorcycles. Engineering, etc. If you look back and check the "#'s", you'll see that okay , the horsepower has come up, but the gas mileage, simplicity of maintenance and everything else hasn't really went any further, from where it was , back in the mid '80's!
My Lemans MK3 has linked breaks, they are fantastic, for a bike that age and weight the breaking is really good and very stable, even if you break in a corner which you shouldn't really do.
A lot of old german mopeds (50cc) had used a gripshift too. My first motorcycle, a Hercules Prima 5, had a 2 gear gripshift and my grandpa's Zündapp Supercombinette 429 had a 3 gear gripshift. ^^
Exactly. It was standard with all Mofas and Mopeds which were legally viewed as bicycles with assisting engines. If it had bicycle-like pedals, it had a grip shifter. Victoria Vicky, DKW Hummel, Rabeneick Binetta, Express Radex, Zündapp Kombinette… there were dozens of brands and well over a hundred various models. Same goes for all scooters that were built. Heinkel Tourist, NSU Prima, Zündapp R50, again dozens of types.
@@he_exe The official Moped formula from the 1950s was that the bike had to have bicycle-style pedals, could be driven by them (Albeit awfully badly was acceptable…), 50Km/h top speed, 50cm³ stroke volume and up to 33 kilograms of weight. A handle to carry the Moped had to be installed as well. So they only were kind of bicycles. If you squinted very squintily with both eyes and accepted that that bicycle would exhaust any world class athletes within 100 metres of driving them with the pedals. ☺
I think the problem with grip shift is that it turns with the clutch lever. Detaching the clutch lever, however, isn't really an option as it would be pretty hard to twist it while doing a 100% squeeze on the clutch. Unlike the throttle where you're either twisting the throttle to accelerate, or squeezing the brake lever to stop using the front wheel. Actions that you usually don't do at the same time compared to clutch and shift.
Interesting post. Regarding twist grip gear change, this was common on some mopeds in the 1950/60s in the UK. Using a 50cc two speed Villiers two stroke engine with twist grip change was common for some manufacturers.
There's been numerous kinds of front ends on bikes, and some do work better than telescopic forks for some situations. One oddity was the British "Dot" trail bike, which had no springs or shocks, but instead used rubber bushings in torsion. Hub center steering dates back to the 1920's as does many of the "modern" ideas used on motorcycles. Telescopic forks do well at everything with low cost, durability, and simple engineering which is why they will always be most common. I have to agree on the disliking of anything between me and my direct control of the bike, for me including ABS and linked brakes too. I don't want anything to think or do for me those things I can and should be dealing with myself; it is exactly that which makes the experience of riding a motorcycle so unique and so rewarding. But sometimes I can understand others wanting different... I was parked in a bike shop waiting my turn for something when I noticed a guy on a Honda pull in. There was something a bit odd about the way the bike sounded and how he was riding. I noticed the bike was one of their "automatic" models as he too pulled into the shop, kicked the sidestand down, then hopped off the bike onto his one leg. Gotta respect someone who loved riding so much they wouldn't let an amputated leg stop them from doing it- for him the automatic trans made all the difference in the world.
I helped a young man who had lost his hand and made a clutch operarated with his knee against the fuel tank,He had a mechanical hand probably not strong enough to pull the clutch
I agree P RO with your dislike of ABS, and can add to your info about centre hub steering - Militaire had it in 1914. Despite its French name, it was made in the USA. Cheers, Munro Berry
As much as simple fork steering design is well, simple in engineering....what i don't get is the apparent mechanical stress all going to the pivot point, the whole weight of the bike along with rider....& not a single engineering rectification on it. Seen bunch of bikes & cycle mishap & that's the first thing that's breaks off under stress. This is more of production cost cut leverage for its simplicity sake in engineering, that's why it's still prevalent. It's cute when certain narrative seem to favor but not quite.
The Simson Schwalbe also had a Gripshift. It was also quite common in the mountain bike industry. BMW used a system called Telelever that is different from the usual teleforks. The main reason to favor this system is that these bikes literally have no diving in under front braking. You always have full front travel even under hard braking. In the 90's a man from Austria invented a parallelogram front fork for mountain bikes that works similar to the telelever front suspension. But in the bicycle industry it did not catch on.
When we were growing up in the late 60's to mid 70's, there was a kid up the street who had a (Honda?) Rabbit 90. The left grip actuated a centrifugal clutch with 3 speeds on the left grip, pulling in the clutch lever was optional. It worked either way. The vespa-style scooter was off-white, and we rode it everywhere it could go in the woods. It had a rabbit logo on it like the impala for Chevrolet.
Those were made by Fuji heavy industries, the same people making Subaru cars today! The larger Rabbit model had a fluid coupling for the transmission basically making it a twist and go like modern scooters.
Polish 50cc moped Romet "Komar" (mosquito) from the '60 used to have gripshifts it was necessary because the moped had a crank like a bicycle, it was used to start the engine and you could use it to ride it like a bicycle if you ran out of gas or an engine failure (which was common because it was commie times) They dropped it later in production in favour for kickstarter and classic gearshift, mostly because the gripshift was unreliable (not switching when you wanted and switching when you didn't) and they ditched the bicycle crank since riding it like a bicycle was more of a hassle than just pushing it along ;)
Hey Bart. Interesting video, but you left one out. Anti-dive front suspension, typically front forks, but my former boss, John Long, the roadracer from Miami, Florida raced a BMW with a manual (for lack of a better word) anti-dive setup with rods and levers back in the 80s. All the other manufacturers were using some kind of hydraulic system which diverted some of the fork oil to stop the forks from compressing under braking. Incidentally, BMW's team manager was Udo Gehtle (not completely sure about the spelling of the last name), who went on the manage team Honda's roadracing effort. Anti-dive showed up on many of the major manufacturers production bikes, but it was complicated and only made front fork maintenance more of a hassle.
I rode a BMW R12C for many years and loved that bike (until the driveshaft stripped = $2500 repair!). The innovative telelever front end was very effective at keeping the front end from diving...I miss that bike 😥
@@acehandler1530 Thanks for the response. I worked on Beemers, first boxers back in the early 80s, then K bikes later in the mid to late 80s, even went to 2 BMW schools to learn how to work on the latter. However, I got out of the motorcycle industry in the early 90s and never rode a beemer with telelever suspension, altho I did read about it. Even before telelever, BMWs were great handlers and I was very impressed with ABS. I didn't know or remember that one of the features of the telelever front end was anti-dive. Thanks for clueing me in.
3:42 Nope, in Germany there were also a lot of small 50cc mokicks and mopeds with the handshifter, for example old rixe or a zündapp Bergsteiger. It was very popular on 1950s and 1960s German 50ccs
The Jawa Checoslovaquia 250 1956 if I recall the year had a clutch activated by the gear shift, plus the hand clutch, I rode that bike a lot did not know much but thought it was pretty cool
I started riding at the age of 15 with one of these grip shifter scooters. The scooter is from Bajaj(now part owner of KTM). There used to be competing scooter models from Vespa and Bajaj here in India in the 80s and 90s. After I moved up to motorcycles, I never missed them, but it felt good to be able to see which gear I was in. Always missed that in a motorcycle.
Was the Bajaj the copy of the Lambretta! I remember you could get one imported from India for £1200 or something! Maybe bit more expensive but bargain nonetheless!
@@WilliamLithgowGuitars yeah..pretty much same design and stuff...though I must admit I wasn't aware of Lambretta back then. 2 stroke engine meant it was quick and powerful.
My Suzuki GT550 two stroke had a "gear selecter" between the speedo and the rev counter a LED in red,Novel in it's time unnecessary though because the gear pedal would not move past top gear,Where the previous HONDA 350 the pedal would flop about giving you no indication of what gear you were in
My Ural has a universal spare mounted, swapped it when my original pusher tire started wearing down. The problem is that most motorcycles use different front and rear wheels.
@@BikerMage There are also those small Isuzu cabover trucks, that have different size front and rear wheels: 2 spares bolted together, hanging under the tray, or van body.
My favorite innovation that never caught on was the Triumph sprung hub. It’s a suspension unit contained within the rear wheel hub and it was designed to give Triumph’s existing rigid frames the option of rear suspension.
@Retired Bore not only that, it was also “potentially dangerous at high speeds” and one of the first moto accessories to come with a safety warning. It is also remembered as “a pain in the ass” literally and figuratively to repair and “one of the weirdest and worst rear suspension systems of all time”.
It was a good enough concept but simply didn't work well. Using modern metals and dry teflon sliding surfaces it would make a good addition to a hard-tail chopper, adding a bit of cushioning for the worst bumps without losing the classic hard-tail look; certainly more visual appeal than a 'savior' frame which works as equally bad as the old sprung-hubs do. Can't see much use for it on any other kind of bike though.
Sounds like someone has never riden one or had anything to do with them, an atrocious idea that fortunately never caught on and lasted but a few years, there are reasons why swinging arms are used on all bikes.
I have Vespas and have ridden motorbikes. The twist grip is very practical, you can easily see what gear you are in, and you can feel the vibration with your hands to know its gone into gear. Makes a lot of sense.
The linked front suspension was tried in 500cc racing and struck the problem that it lacked feel, the rider couldn’t tell when the front was going to let go
We talked a lot about turbo bikes. I just remember another, quite similar innovation on scooters that - as far as I know - never caught on in this segment (only in motorbikes like the Kawasaki H2): The compressor. The Peugeot Satelis 125 Compressor (2006-2012) and the Peugeot JetForce 125 Compressor (2003-2007) were both 4-stroke-scooters with a Roots blower, available with 15 or 20 hp. Fast 'n' thirsty 🙂
i ridw a firestorm vtr 22 year old bike still keep up with most bikes i like a bike yo have to ride not all these stopid mods the weekend bikes with all the kit more money than sence cant werk o new bikes have to put them in a shop its a big rip of the 400 deram waz auto an cub waz the first
I once had an old hard tailed, HD, two stroke, single that had a left grip mounted , 3 speed, shifter clutch like you show here. I thought it worked just fine, but I did not ride it in the woods or on the trails, either. I imagine that it might have some problems, there.
Nice review! 2 things missing in my own opinion: - my BMW R69 had a swing arm for, known here in France as "Earles" fork. Amazing thing was that the drummer brake was mounted on the horizontal arm, and when braking, the front of the bike and the head light
In sweden the R69 (euro model)'s front suspension is could "ölgaffel" the translets to "bear"(that you drink)-fork, but the usdm models had normal "right" way turned forks (by old standard, meaning hydraulics on the bottom).
I have used an Earles front end on a bike I was building and when it came to riding and braking, it had both good and bad habits, as follows... When braking, application of the lever caused the front of the machine to thrust UPWARDS instead of down. On normal bikes, using the front brake will tighten your cornering ability. With an Earles, it takes you to the high side of the turn, but, it also applies more downward force on the rear wheel. In short, it imitates the motions and results of a panic stop by a horse. This, in a motorcycle, is not to be despised. I became rather adept at juggling these reactions and hoped they would become something more of the norm, but with the exception of the R-69, I never saw another. Mine came from a junk pile that was all that was left of some antique European bike that had been between a concrete barrier and an 18 wheel truck.
Just to finish my comment, before I got pissed by my computer keyboard errors... I was surprised you didn' mention the Moto Guzzi 1000 Convert, which had a real "convertisseur" and not a computerized operated gearbox. I chickened out at the time, and bought the 5 gears manual version. In my very early days of riding, I had a Honda PS50, wich had a 3 speeds gearbox controlled by handlebar rotating grip. Very slow bike, but gearbox and 4 stroke engine were not common on mopeds at the time!
@@russbilzing5348 in the 60s Sachs,down& Greece's dirt bikes had leading link front forks,which were handy. They didn't dip when brake's we're applied,so you had full travel when you hit bumps after braking, but hard to wheelie ,cause extra front end weight
Honda had a great linked braking system where the rear brakes engaged the middle piston of the front caliper, as well. It works amazingly well, I have it on my VTX1800, and it adds stability to stops that really helps on larger bikes. You can still skid, since the front has3 pistons on each side, total of 6, you're only engaging 2 of the 6, just barely noticeable, but very helpful in some situations. I believe the front brake lever works the same way, engaging about 20% of the rear, but I'm sure.
My friends and I used to ride our German-made Puch and Zundapp mopeds (49cc) to highschool back in the '70s. Left hand side grip gear shifters were very common back then. But it required some serious hand-strength to hold and twist the grip (to the right gear!) at the same time. It was just NOT a convenient system!
It was indeed common on a lot of 60's and 70's mopeds. Never found it hard to shift, maybe you rode a bike with bad rusty cables. And this is one of the problems, the control cables have to be adjusted right to get in to the right gear. The way the system works means it is also not suitable for higher power bikes, say >150cc.
@@thorman1742 My first motorcycle was a Puch, an early 60's moped, and I was 14. It had a left foot shifter and true to it's moped name you could pedal it although up hills was almost impossible.
I didn't see anyone else mention the dual-wishbone front suspension that Honda introduced on their 2018 Goldwing. I, personally, found it to be much smoother riding front end than any other bike I've ridden.
I think a small to medium capacity supercharged bike would work well. Plenty of torque and great fuel efficiency would be perfect for real world riding.
There were people making grip shifters as an aftermarket product. The guy I bought one off of (for my mod'd Vespa) said he designed it for a friend that was paraplegic and wanted to race. They also tied both brakes to the handle bar lever.
On the subject of automatic transmissions, they have taken off in a big way in the scooter/light motorcycle vehicles that are common all through SE Asia. Some are the "it does everything for you" types, but what's also common is a transmission that allows you to shift, but you don't have to use the clutch at all. These are really popular all through SE Asia, and the smaller Honda bike I ride around town and for errands uses this kind of transmission.
I had an NSU Quickly (well, three of them actually!). Two had a two speed handlebar grip change, one had a three speed change. The three speed was always breaking gearbox parts.
My father has a classic 150cc vespa with a grip shift, I can tell you why they didn’t catch on, it’s because they suck. Trying to let out the clutch in 1st is horrible because your fingers are pointing to the sky meaning your wrist is bent really weirdly. It’s hard to get any finesse with them
actually Moto Guzzi developed some kind of Automatic transmission for its Idroconvert (california 1000), replacing manual gearbox with a torque converter built by Sachs, and two-speed gearbox. The consequential lack of braking effect of the 4-stroke engine is what pushed Moto Guzzi to develop and adopt the "integral braking" or linked braking system.
The grip shift appears nice and simple, as long as you’re not riding in the dark and/or bad weather. Also, the clutch cable needs maintenance regularly. And, yes, in Europe, there were a lot of Mopeds with this shifter setup; I.e. Zündapp, Hercules (Gernany) Puch (Austria) and Simson (German Democratic Republic), and I’m pretty sure there are more. Greetings from the other side, ride safe.
@MrBuellMike...Why do you think that an extra cable running up to the handlebars is nice or simple? Or that one side of the handlebars has more play in it than the other? Just because there were a lot of this shifter made does not make it a good idea, unless there were a lot of people in Europe missing their Left Foot.
GTS owner here ;) It `s a good handling bike, bit heavy to push around but for it`s size and weight surprisingly agile up to about 90kph, not sure what happens to it when you enter highway speeds but the whole bike just transforms into a very steady high speed mode like if it had adaptive power steering. Can also lug quite a bit of cargo with the full pannier kit without affecting ridability. A real unsung hero IMO.
I always wanted to see someone develop a real-life "Keneda's Bike" from Akira. I'm surprised you didn't mention anything like the single-side swingarm or dual-spar frame (both included on Honda's amazing 1988 NT650GT "Hawk".
Look at the love of my life. A Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive. Comfort. Amazing electric windscreen. Fuel injection for easy starting. Lots of foot room. An amazingly well-tuned CVT transmission. Will do over 110mph and give 60mpg while flogging it. Stablemates are a Honda Goldwing SE and Yamaha 650 Maxim. The "half a busa" is my favorite.
I learned to ride motor equipped bikes on a twist grip shifter equipped scooter. My dad owned a Vespa knock off. It took an good amount of strength to get it to shift because the mechanism uses cables. Also, the position of the clutch lever would keep moving and put it way out of a comfortable position if it had more than 4 gears. The clutch lever position was already drastically different between 1st and 4th gear. The clutch develops all sorts of up and down play because all the twisting torque from the left hand passed through it. Good riddance I say. Nothing beats the cost, weight advantage and simplicity of a fork. Good enough for MotoGP, Motocross or Hard Enduro, or even downhill mountain biking, good enough for all consumers. Some suspension dive is desirable for motorcycles because it reduces wheelbase and makes a bike more willing to turn under braking, and often, the fastest way around a turn involves trail braking.
Dude, twist grips were the only gear changing mechanism on Vespa scooters, from the 1940s though to 2017 - bajillions of them were made, and people were quite happy with them.
I've been on K1600s since 2012. Their linked braking system is so good that, to be perfectly honest, I rarely use the rear brake, alone, even at walking speeds. Probably not the best habit, but the linked brakes truly are that good.
Our boy here thinks BMW only makes cars. Telelever front fork and linked braking "didn't catch on?" How does he think ABS works on a motorcycle without linked braking?
@russmiller7284 - "I rarely use the rear brake, alone, even at walking speeds. Probably not the best habit." Why would anyone think that using the rear brake alone is a *good* habit, when it's the surest and easiest way to lock up a wheel and get into a skid?
@@jackx4311 ...That shouldn't be answered in the uTube comment section. Instead of watching top ten videos, search for motorcycle safety videos, or find a class.
many small mopeds in germany also had a grip shift system. they had mostly 2 or three gears and where used in mopeds/mofas from many manufactorys like Hercules, Puch, KTM, Zündapp, NSU or Simson. some also had an 2 speed automatic transmission
The twist grip gear change was cable operated and needed to be adjusted often as it became difficult to use. It might have improved from the early 1970s I'm talking about though.
I love the way you credit Honda for the GTS hub center steering as the GTS was a Yamaha, as clearly shown in the picture accompanying your voice over. That about sums up what your opinions are worth to me. You might actually try riding some of these bikes before expressing your flatulence about them. For example, twist grip gear shifts have been, and still are, used on a wide variety of two wheeled vehicles where it is impracticable to use ones feet to shift gears. I have two bicycles that use a twist grip to shift gears. Just because you are ignorant about them does not mean they don't exist. They still do and they work very well. Sadly today's motorcycles have descended into fashion statements, Most are like their riders. Fat and loud. I was drawn to motorcycling sixty years ago as it was the closest thing to flying that could experience. Modern bikes are too big, too heavy, and too slow to change direction, including many so called 'sport' bikes. I blame the lawyers and accountants.
Yes,I noticed that glaring cock up as well. I guess he thinks you can just call it whatever you like...a Yamkawahonzuki is as good as anything. Another channel that is very light on accurate detail.
No mention of the Rotary engines? Norton, Suzuki. Herkules, Van Veen? Or the lengthwise mounted inline four cylinder of the Danish Nimbus bikes? Six cylinder bikes never really took off, either. Honda Gold wing are the only ones to kind of stick to that concept. There were so many wonderfully quirky designs! 🤗
Hey...62 years of consistent motorcycle touring in a number of different countries are my credentials. I owned a CX500 Turbo at one time and it was maybe the best touring motorcycle I have ever owned. The model attracted some bad press and most riders didn't know that you need RPM to make them perform. Anyhow, it suited me and my riding/touring style and was very reliable.
Some off these motorcyclists are brain dead,I used the entire rev range in all gears not just knock it into top and the call it gutless,Yamaha made the YPVS the thinking was to widen the power across the whole band but some off the brain dead could not understand why it didn't have a powerband
I loved the linked breaks on my Honda ST1300. It was very reassuring to know that if I panicked and forgot to use both brakes, they would still both engage to some degree.
bikes don't employ the twist-grip shifter because it's a lot cheaper and simpler to mount it directly to the selector on the case, and shifting is quicker. why it was on the handlebars was because of the form factor - on a scooter, your feet generally don't do anything (the lambretta did have a rear brake pedal) which was why they were driven to devise the system. my scooter has CVT, which is a cool innovation in itself.
My first bike had some very unusual innovations. Fully enclosed chain. Rear wheel could be quickly removed leaving the chain and sprocket attached to the swing arm. And the front and rear wheels were identical and interchangeable allowing you to even out the wear on the tyres. And sometimes, when I thought I had engaged first gear it would reverse! (I'm not sure if that was a feature or a fault.) The mighty Voskhod 175!
Well, I have to say that I do like the linked brakes with ABS on my Honda VF1200F. Makes it much safer when there is sand, water or anything that may cause the front wheel to lock up or slip when braking.
I had an Italian Itom Tabor Sport 62cc with handlebar mounted gear change - this was back in the 60s - and the problem was that it used two Bowden cables and keeping them in perfect tension was difficult. A missed gear could result in stripping the teeth off the gear primary drive.
Well done. I was a kid when the Rokon came along, in about 1972. Looks like it has hardly changed at all! I actually saw just one back then, even though my father and I were very active dirt riders, in any area where the Rokon should have worked quite well. Dad took some interest in them (I only cared about motocross bikes, really), but never bought one.
I traded in my Yamaha FJ1200 in the mid 90’s for a new bike. I tried the GTS1000. It stuck to the road like Velcro when cornering, a fantastic ride. Then I hit traffic in Canterbury (in the UK) and was sat in the bike moving it forwards with my feet a metre at a time for about 30 minutes. (Yes, traffic can be that bad in Canterbury). It weighed a ton. I ended up buying another FJ1200, this time with ABS, with a free set of Giwi luggage as a sweetener.
I confirm this for my '66 Zundapp Combinette 2-speed single-seater moped! Zündapp stuck to the draw key transmission until the end. Was maybe one of the brand's coffin nails...
I had a Hondamatic Hawk. Wasn't my first choice for riding but it was such a great bike to ride around the countryside on. Super curvy, S bend, tight roads were so much easier to navigate. Really let me just relax.
It has always struck me as odd that the simple pair of front forks remains the standard on basically anything that isn't a BMW R-bike, whereas dual rear shocks/springs have been relegated to "classic" models for decades now. When I've ridden Bimmers with the telelever, it really does make the bike feel more controlled under hard braking. I don't know what it's supposed disadvantages are, or why it isn't more common, but I dig it.
The Honda Gyro Canopy are still super popular as food delivery vehicles in Japan, it rains often and the roads are small and low speed so they make a lot of sense over there.
My first "motorcycle" was a Harley M-50 with twist-grip shifting (3 speed ?). While my friends were riding similar Sears and Montgomery Ward bikes, the little Harley was top dog!! Thanks for conjuring up these old memories.
I started riding in 1965, and almost all scooters and mopeds then had twist shift, it was considered standard equipment. One noticeable scooter that had foot shift was the C-Zeta, and that was also made in New Zealand under license as the N-Zeta. Front Suspension: You didn't mention BMW's amazing Telelever front suspension. I was given a ride on one when they first came out and it is astonishing. Totally stable, you could apply full front brakes and there is no dive and the front end is completely stable. Remember that BMW were the first company to have hydraulically damped front forks, too, in the 1930's.
![ร้อยพ่อพันแม่ - WanMai [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XY2pNYASEbg/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you so much for NOT using fake robot text-to-speech voice overs. This is the first video of yours that I have watched, and now I look forward to watching (and listening) to more!
The 'fake robot' voiceovers are usually used by people who have different accents than the usual US/UK/AU/EU accents, who have determined that text-to-speech works better than their actual voices.
@@deus_ex_machina_ - no, most are just lazy and/or using stolen content. So the mute the original audio and use test-to-speech to quickly bash out a video quickly.
@@deus_ex_machina_ No, they're most used by thirdies for worthless clickbait garbage viewbait which is a great reason to bring back dislikes.
yep.. i aggree
@@johncoops6897if you say so "lazy one"
I’d be happy with self canceling turn signals.
Fr
Lmaoo whyyyyyy can’t we get this advanced technology
This! So much this!
Really at this point I kinda think it is a troll by the manufacturers. Like yeah we could easily do that, no problem, but what about fully linked navigation and entertainment systems? Computer controlled ride height? Customizable displays? What, you guys just want your turn signal to turn off after you turn!?!? Why don't you just buy a car then, these are motorcycles.
My 03dyna has them
There's an Indian scooter called TVS Jupiter 110 that has started offering this feature very recently.
The classic Piaggio Vespas had a lot of innovations that never caught on elsewhere, which is why I enjoy them so much. Aside from the twist grip shifting, they used a trailing arm front suspension, front and rear wheels were interchangeable, and both were as easy to remove and install as an automobile. The frame is monocoque, the rear suspension is the engine case so there's no separate drivetrain, and every cable, wire, and tube is routed internally.
It was designed from the ground up to be the world's most practical utilitarian two wheeled vehicle.
And now even Piaggio is back building fairing-on-frame bikes voiding the advantages of a pressed steel monocoque design.
Grip shifting used to be really common in 50ccs in Germany
@@florianvelling6427 in Poland too
@The Irate Lad but that one is no longer a Piaggio product.
MZ ES250
The grip shifts used to be pretty common on vintage mopeds in Sweden. They were made in the thousands to the point where you can look on any second hand website and within a day have a 500$ moped from 1968 that’s in near perfect condition. As I said before, a lot of them (especially the early models) had grip shifts, which are notorious for being absolutely awful to use. They make your hand tired and it’s pretty finicky to use. My 1975 mustang 617 sport has a grip shift clutch assembly, but thankfully the zundapp 278 engine it came with has a pedal shift.
Bajaj scooters from India also use twist grips. It's way too easy to accidentally shift gears while turning or under heavy breaking. Or maybe it's just because the one I rode was about 30 years old
Old Tunturi mopeds also had the same system.
In the 60/70 and 80's where a lot of small 50cc Mopeds using that kind of Grip shift from 2, 3 and even 4 gear versions. So its absolutley nothing which only Piaggion has used. But due to the iconic design that is one of those that is best known around the world.
They also go out of adjustment due to cable stretch, and can randomly drop into gear while sitting and running. I learned that the hard way when I was diagnosing a hanging idle on a stella, rev it up and BAM scooter is at 12oclock 5ft away from you.
TOMOS has a grip shifter on some models.
You forgot air bags. The Gold Wing had them as an option. It sounds silly, but if you watch it in action, it makes a ton of sense. It's designed to keep you from flying over the bars in a T-bone collision with a car.
and he forgot ejector seat option
@@alanssnack1192 which would be far more dangerous, to the average punter. Being expensive very heavy it would never sell 😕
I’ve seen plenty of airbags on Goldwings… oh, I guess you weren’t referring to the riders
@@rcpmac Ohhhh.... you didn't go there... They remind me of us as kids strapping pillows or couch cushions around ourselves before a new stunt.
I wish I could remember the video... One about motorcycle safety innovations like that which could be made if manufacturers wanted to. Advanced things like those airbags, as well as more basic things like designing the tank area so that flying over the bars doesn't cause groin injuries, etc. Much could be done, tbh.
My experience with twist grip shifters was that they were awkward to use, particularly after a bit of wear which could make them a bit clunky and imprecise.
Cables always snap when older
I totally agree. One ride was all I needed to wonder why anyone would even try the idea!
Indeed. And the strange position of the wrist, right where you hit a bump on the road.
they look shite in design anyway as the entire lever has to change angle, it should have been made to reset back to normal but was designed too cheap
They were common on mopeds in the 50’s and 60’s, at least here in Sweden.
The Hossack front suspension concept used by the Britten is currently used on the latest generation Honda Gold Wing and the BMW K1600s.
I was about to post the same.
That double wishbone front suspension was developed at about the same time by Norman Hossack, Claud Fior and Tony Foale.
And was used ok K1200 and K1300
@@LoosiuFlying known as the Duo Lever
@@pashakdescilly7517 Yes in did. It was straight patent abuse - no many went to brilliant Mr. Hossack :/
And it's not a girder fork, as was stated in the video. Norman Hossack described it as a "steered upright". @LoosiuFlying BMW waited until Hossack's patent expired, before producing their overweight and over complicated version.
Someone else has probably already mentioned it, but on the Guzzi linked brake system, it did have two independent systems. The foot pedal operates the rear and one front disk, the handlebar lever engaged the second front disk.
@Phil Davies - As did the Goldwing from 1981 -2000 (rear with right front brake, 'balancing' side to side) which was NOT the best idea for lowered adhesion surfaces. such as sand, snow, rain or grass clippings! After the 2nd ride on my 1986 Goldwing (late-February in northern Illinois) where it unexpectedly snowed through my 40 mile ride home, and I inherently skidded the front tire while using only the foot brake (that'll definitely make your butt pucker something fierce!) I decided to split my braking on that bike the proper way by summer. With the 1800 series, the calipers themselves were split ( 3 piston or 6, I don't remember) so the center front pistons and the outer rear pistons were operated by the foot control and the outer front and center rear pistons were by the hand control. This way the stronger front/ weaker rear balance was by hand with stronger rear/ weaker front by foot, giving a 'balanced' linked-braking with a feel closer to a non-linked system.
As for the Guzzi linked system, I've heard that in some markets (definitely not U.S./ North American) there was no 2nd system, all braking was by the pedal. That would never fly in the States because there is a DOT requirement (since 1968) for multiple brake systems - just in case of one failing - on all street legal vehicles.
I still have a 87 California 2 with this -at that time- innovative break system. And it is really well working, once you get used to it. The 40:60 share between the back and left front break enables nice decelerations without any risk of blocking. And with the second front disc on the hand lever you can reinforce this, or just use it in stop and go as the only break.
early 1980's yamaha venture royal, had linked brakes, as does honda's VFR800, in fact my 09 VFR8000 has linked brakes and ABS. In EU all new bikes must have either linked brakes or abs, so many lightweight bikes have linked brakes to keep the costs down.
@@MadMaxxMoto - I don't now about other markets, but Moto-Guzzis sold in Britain had the 'one front + the rear disc' operated by the pedal, and the second front operated by the hand brake lever. As to the balance between the two brakes, when you pressed the foot pedal, 60% of the hydraulic pressure went to the front disc, with 40% to the rear. I rode my Moto-Guzzi all year round, including on icy and snowy roads, and never had a problem with either wheel locking up.
@@Herr_Bone Great to hear you like it. My 85 Lario still has linked system and once used to it you never find an issue. Confuses the heck out of NZ WoF issuers though as they struggle to understand why and how it works,
Oval pistons were Honda’s attempt to get around the MotoGP rules that limited manufacturers to 4 cylinders/pistons, and get more valve area so as to make more HP
How do you even make piston rings for that thing 🤯🤔
My Honda Varadero has linked brakes. Pulling the front brakes, brakes front 75%, and back 25%. And the reverse is also true. Works on tar and dirt. And I think it is better than expensive ABS.
One friend of mine spent 2 years working for Honda racing, he said the inside name for "NR" was Never ready. Honda spent way too long and too much money and although I'm sure technology was gained, it was a waste of time.
@@davidgibbings6085 I seem to remember they were 4 piece rings, did not last long but they were built for racing not road use, so did not matter as long as they lasted the race.
@@davidgibbings6085 easy to make them , not easy to make them last , don't run a second race on them ,
Did anyone mention thta the Honda cub certainly caught on as it simply is the best selling motorbike in the world. Including all versions of bikes using the same engine and semi automatic clutch, more than 100 MILLION have been already sold... and the story goes on !!
Interesting video. However, I reckon BMW's telelever front suspension has made it into the mainstream and definitely has it's advantages on the road with regard to separating suspension and braking effects
Same exact thing with GS having linked brakes as well
Yes, I love that my front end doesn’t dive when I brake my big GS. I once heard a criticism that it makes the front end feel dead, but it’s dead nuts reliable to me.
Buell's bikes were full of funny innovations that never really went anywhere outside of that brand, but I think the one that makes the most sense to be adopted by other manufacturers were the Zero Torsional Load brakes. They're not ridiculously complicated, they just take a traditional brake setup and tweak it. And they work well. Buell and EBR raced successfully with them.
Zero torsional load brakes ? What the fuck are those?!
Buell ran a perimeter brake on the front wheel on 2004 models and up. Rear brakes were standard single piston.
@@taitsmith8521 ZTL brakes ... are perimeter brakes.... cos the disk is mounted on the wheels perimeter it meant no torsional load went through the ‘spokes’... meaning the wheel could be much lighter...
The rear is driven obvs so had torsional load anyway... hence normal brakes
@@Obvsaninternetexpert I've never heard the term used before ( ZTL).
The corporate people at Harley really strangled Buell. It could have been a lot more than it was. I wish EBR would come out with a middleweight bike.
@@taitsmith8521 I know I always wanted a lightning 😭
@@Obvsaninternetexpert I had a 2000 X1 for about 10 years. Tuber model, prior to the perimeter brake rotors, but still, it was a great bike. Used Buells go for cheap, just plan on being your own mechanic.
Greetings from India..
We still have some of the features you mentioned in the video common sight on our roads..
1. Left hand side grip gear shifters are still used on some scooters and three - wheeler auto rikshaw (Tuk -Tuk) to this day..
2. Combined front and rear brakes are a common feature on modern bikes in India, but you also have a seperate front brake on these motorbikes and scooters.
It's only when you press the rear brake the combined brakes are triggered, my Honda CD110 has this.
3. TVS tried to make the clutch less automatic transmission mainstream with the TVS Jive but that didn't attracted many buyers so it was ditched...
Great video BTW..
For decades(!) left hand side grip shifters have been used on mopeds of many brands from Italy, Germany, Austria, France etc. Worked very well
Combined front and rear brakes are also a common feature on modern bikes in Brazil. Today, all small cc Hondas has some sort of it.
Bhai aap bajaj ke scooters bhool gaye eg bajaj super and chetak
Bajaj m80 bhi
I wish you had explained the advantages of Britten’s suspension and the hub-steer suspension.
I literally had this exact same thought as he talked about it. EXPLAIN the advantages, don’t just TELL me. Motorcycle makers haven’t done it for a REASON
Bike doesn't dive when braking - go deeper into corners before braking.
@percy tom - Thanks!
too heavy, complicated and expensive@@Rudenbehr
BMW has built their Telelever, then Duolever/Paralever suspension, still in some models, for over 25 years. It's in my 2007 K1200S hot rod. The bike will not wobble, even tipped in over potholes and the front end barely dives, even when the Brembos are clamping speed down with prejudice. Straight line or when in a corner, it's like the bike is on rails. On does need to keep ahead of the machine, as "twitchy" is not an adjective used when describing its handling.
Most mopeds back in 70s and 80s (yes, I'm that old 🙂) had manual gearbox selectors, like the Vespa's. It is indeed very, very old. And quite horrible. Speaking from years of experience it shifts slow, cables tend to get out of tune and it will be difficult if the bike has more than 4 gears. Als the angle of the clutch handle changes, ergonomically also not great. So there are good reasons this type of gear selection disappeared.
It started on mopeds already in the late 50's. From one gear up to 3 gears.
Well.... de gustibus etc coloribus non EST disputandum....
I've learned riding with my father's Iso Diva, four gears on the left grip, and, with 10 years old hands ....it was not the best.
But motorcycles are for ( or intended, at least....) for grown ups!
I find it comfortable for the kind of ride a scooter can give you.
Wouldn't want that on a race bike or enduro of course, but the system proved to be ok for that kind of bikes...
Clean, cheap, reliable, and easy to fix and maintain.
Cheers!
Where was this? I've been all over Europe, the only one like that that I've seen was the Vespa, everything else had a variator, or foot shifter.
@@noth606 It was some time ago....
French, German, Italian scooters and small bikes.....
Not the Japanese bikes, of course....
@@noth606 Sweden for sure!
The Gold Wing platforms have had linked brakes for years. Works well with or without ABS option. You still have independent controls that distribute breaking forces differently. The work fantastic stopping the weight of the bike, gear and two passengers. ...
As long as you don't want to think and have middling rider skills, linked braking is OK. Otherwise, it's crap.
They're OK for Americans, who can't even downshift cleanly.
Grip shift was very common on 50cc mopeds in Europe.
I doubt it would be an improvement as it requires 2 cables. I feel a foot shifter just gives you better feedback.
Also on my bike with 6 gears, you would have to rotate the shift (AND THE CLUTCH HANDLE) between 7 positions. This would leave the clutch handle in very inconvenient positions.
And you skip the cable with foot shifter
IIRC there were even three cables, one for the clutch and two for shifting up and down. I remember using it on mopeds and always found it awkward and clumsy. Never seen it used with more than 4 positions( 3 gear). Early Puch , Sachs ,Kreidler, Zundapp and Flandria are a few brands that come to mind to have this "feature".
@@dutchsailor6620 I was thinking of the EXTRA 2 cables to change gear.
I can see an updated version working, though, using ride-by-wire technology rather than mechanical cables, and a sequential up/down shift pattern just like foot shifters. Although if the objective is to make changing gear a one-limb operation instead of two, I guess quickshifters/blippers do a pretty good job.
My zündapp moped only has obe cable as far as i know
Got a chance to ride a 1995 BMW RS-1000 with the telelever front end. It was absolute magic for hard late braking and, especially, trail braking. Very confidence inspiring and sold me on the idea. It wasn't a gimmick, it really works.
Back in the late 70’s I purchased a Husqvarna 390 Automatic I used in scrambles and enduros. It had a 4 speed gearbox, went up and down gears just like an automatic car. I believe it was used by the Swedish Army as well. It was a great reliable competitive bike in its day.
The Husqvarna Automatic won the NETRA and AMA Enduro championships in the 80s. One dealer in New England was adapting them for a number of riders with 1 arm. Really.
Didn't Husky also locate the throttle as well as the clutch lever on the left side of the handlebar so as to free up the right hand of the rider to...shoot?
In the 1980s I had a Czechoslovakian-made CZ 175 that featured a push-rod that ran through the centre of the crankcase, linked to a cam on the pivot of the gear pedal. When you moved the pedal to change gear it would automatically disengage the clutch, so you could just flick through the gears without having to touch the handlebar clutch lever. It was simple, reliable and easy to use, but I've never seen that feature on any other motorcycle.
Good example! Wasn't it also the case that on the Jawa and CZ bikes, a single lever served as the shifter and kick starter? A typical example from the Iron Curtain period. Either technical innovations were not known in the West or they were not taken seriously. Or the engineers developed great concepts that were not approved by the old men of the state apparatus. Before the VW Golf, the GDR could have had a modern compact car with a large trunk lid (Wartburg 355/Trabant P1100) - no approval. Instead, cars with two-stroke engines were built until just before the end. A shortage of materials, a lack of funds and unreasonable politicians made life difficult for the engineers. They have our respect that they have quietly developed ingenious solutions again and again, in the two-wheel sector e.g. at Jawa/CZ, MZ and Simson. Mostly, unfortunately, hidden under an old-fashioned design, making the models difficult to sell in western markets. MZ, for example, were distributed by Neckermann in the Federal Republic of Germany and were considered a cheap vehicle for students.
@@Volker_GR Yes, now you mention it, that's true. You pushed the gear pedal in, flipped it over backwards, and it became the kickstarter. It was a fun bike; not massively reliable and sometimes a bit reluctant to start, but nice to ride and incredibly tough, like it was built out of ex-Soviet tank parts. I had forest tyres on it, and it would go pretty much anywhere that my mates' Yamaha DT175 would go.
It was a feature of the Dnepr MT-804 gearbox. First fitted to the Dnepr MT-9 in 1968, and used on all subsequent models.
I had a Kawasaki GPz 750 turbo in the mid 80s and have fond memories of it. The turbo unit was made by Panasonic and spun to something like 100k, but I never recall it being leery, no dramatic power-band; yes a litre bike was as quick and less complicated, but at the time the turbo seemed space age!
Possibly more fuel-efficient than a naturally-aspirated 1000cc bike too?
@@RogerBarraud I think that’s true Roger. At the time, I was torn between the turbo and the then just released GPz900, but I’m glad I owned the turbo since it felt special, and now they fetch quite a bit of cash.
My dad's neighbour had one and he rode it like a pussy never above 2000rpm,My father challenged him,apparently he didn't know what a turbo was or what it did,He just liked the word TURBO on his bike unfortunately when the turbo kicked in it would SHIT HIM UP, So rode below the turbo boost
@@Johnketes54 lol, The Gpzs we're nice....Saw a twin set being sold not long ago. But they had high miles & kinda beat up, for the price. I opted for a 82 Suzuki GS 750E & I'm happy I did. By far the smoothest bike I've ever owned..Overall, I like it much more than my 82 CBX, but the sound of the CBX is by far the best sounding bike I've ever owned. I wouldn't mind owning that turbo Kawasaki now
My brother had one and he was more than a little worried on checking the registration when he got it home to find out he was the fifth owner in just over a year particularly given its very low mileage. He soon found out why... It was a complete dog and over half the mileage he put on it was riding it home and then riding it back to the Kawasaki dealer to demand his money back. Kawasaki were obviously having a bad day when they made it or, and this was our favourite theory, the dealer had done something stupid so he had to keep trying to re-sell it as the importer wouldn't take it back.
The twist grip gear change was used on a number of scooter style bikes. MV Augusta made a version. Husqvarna made dirt bikes with automatic transmissions. Originally designed for the military but excellent on sand.
Back in the 1970s I had a German moped made by 'Hercules'. It had a 2 speed transmission which was selected by twisting the clutch lever assembly. You could also way that this technology is widely used on bicycles with twist grip shifting 🙂
don't forget the puch maxi two speed manual had the same arrangement
Here in the Netherlands there a whole lot of "brommers", 50cc mopeds with a legal max speed of 40 kmh that had handshifting, not only European and Dutch brands using Puch, JLO etc engines but also big brands like Zundapp and Kreidler . Kreidler became world champion 50cc with a foot actuated AND a handlebar actuated gearbox liked behind each other to get enough different speeds to cope with the narrow power band of the Kreidler engine. Also Honda 4stroke and Yamaha with handlebar gear change were well sold in our country.
My first two wheeled vehicle was a 1966 Vespa Smallframe. The CC’s went up after that as I finished high school and wanted to travel outside of school, town and scooter rallies. But of all my vehicles my Vespa’s and Lambretta’s are still my number one favourite way to travel.
Ok, the guzzi system was two separate systems.
The rear brake pedal operated the rear brake and one front disc, the handlebar lever operated the other disc.
I have an '84 Moto Guzzi Monza with this system. As Fred says it's two brake systems. The foot brake operates the smaller rear wheel disk and one of the front disks. The handlebar lever operates the other front disk. On dry pavement getting on the brakes hard will lock the rear wheel first. You do have to be careful on gravel and wet leaves so as not to lock the front wheel. Gentle use of the foot brake is usually sufficient. On a twisty mountain downhill run the system really shines and bikes with twice the engine capacity have to work hard to keep up.
@@aceroadholder2185 Pshaw. Linked systems have no place on a motorcycle, imo. Any experienced rider knows that in a low grip situation they might want rear brake only and linked system says they can't have it.
I'll decide which brake to use, when and how much, tyvm. I believe linked systems are the devil's work and I'll play no part in such evil. Linked systems get thee behind me!
Rudge had a system back in the 30s, then of course it was cable operated and it was easy to alter cables if you didn`t like it.
@@alandavies55 Panthers also had linked brakes on the heavyweight machines in the 30s and 40s. Like the Rudge the system was cable operated and could be removed if desired.
@@SingleTrackMined I would assume you've not ridden a Guzzi with linked brakes.
I started riding in 1960 .
My first bike was an NSU Quick. It used a dial a shift twist grip on the left handle bar.
The Alstate moped manufactured by Puch also had dial a shift system.
But was it quick?
Bert, was it the NSU Quickly? I remember them.
No it was a Quick. NSU started producing the Quick in the late 1930s.
The Quickly was a later design based on a step through frame .
The Quick had a 98 cc engine while the Quickly had a 49 cc engine.
@@polarpilot1 so the quick was quicker then the quickly, sounds quick to me......
Were those dial a shift twist groups put in place to keep a hand clear to carry bags?
Twistgripps was quite common in Europe in the 1950s and 1960s, on small bikes, usualy 50-175 cc. I have had with both 2-3-4 gear models, but man, was it good to get it to hand and foot!
NSU & Puch...
@@bsimpson6204 Everyone that used Sachs engines and Zündapp.
@@florianvelling6427 also JLO
European mopeds up to 60 kph max speed had 2 or 3 gear grip shifters. By the late 70s these were almost completely replaced by
centrifugal clutch or variomatic automatic transmissions like in scooters.
I owned a Moto Guzzi with the dual braking system and I loved it. The foot pedal operated front and back disks. 60% braking force to the front wheel, and 40 to the back. Very useful in wet slippery conditions. The front brake handle was totally separate as normal.
I also own a Guzzi with linked brakes, my understanding is link brakes prevent driveshaft jacking when braking into a corner. The linked brakes was only used on guzzi's cruisers, not the sport or sport touring bikes.
I own a California, and I think the linked brakes work brilliant for the riding style. It keeps the motorcycle level even during emergency braking. Also, with the foot pedal it's easier to brake hard, in combination with the hand operated front brake. During emergency stops, the hand operated front brake is easier to reach, but less effective, in practice you kind of "pre brake" with the hand lever and add the other front and rear brake with your foot. When familiarizing myself with this on an empty parking lot I found that I could stop just as fast as a modern abs bike, without losing traction.
I think the pedal worked the rear brake & one of the front brakes, while the handlebar lever worked the other front brake. Well I know some Guzzis worked that way.
Great video! With regard to linked brakes, I use my front brake in most situations and would benefit from linked brakes most of the time to improve and simplify the process of slowing down and stopping. However,it would have to work in a specific way to be practical . Linking the front (hand) brake to the rear (foot) brake makes sense especially with ABS. You could more quickly grab a handful of brake and either modulate it or clamp down to deliberately achieve a rapid deceleration or stop. But, on the other hand, linking the rear brake to the front brake does not work because when you are descending a steep grade on a graveled, wet or otherwise slippery road surface you need to apply the rear brake only to drag the bike to a stop and avoid the massive forward weight shift caused by application of the front brake so as to maintain your balance and preserve as much steering traction and control as possible.
I had a 1984 Guzzi V65C with linked brakes. The bike braked extremely well and never locked up a wheel. I felt totally safe even in the few times I got caught in rain. Had to sell the bike to pay for college, miss it to this day...
Regarding number 8, BMW had telelever front suspension on a lot of bikes for many years didn't they? Are they still doing it? Seemed to work quite well to eliminate fork dive under braking. It wasn't terribly complicated either, so I never understood why it didn't catch on more.
Still on BMW bikes. once you use it, going back to forks feels really dated.
About the 'grip shift'. Back in the 50's and 60's nearly all makes of scooters used this feature, with the odd exception, namely the NSU 5 Star Prima. This had 2 pedals that stuck up through the floorboards and was basically a heel & toe shifter. Nearly all the other brands of scooters and mopeds used the grip shift. I had a Vicky 50cc moped with a 2 sp as did most mopeds. (Mopeds in those days were really mopeds, ie with motor and pedals, typically 50 cc). Scooters, on the other hand, typically 100-250 cc used 3 sp grip shift. Brands such as NSU Prima, (not the previously mentioned 5 star), Puch, Zundapp Bella, Triumph Tigress and its BSA sister, Vespa and Lambretta as you mentioned, Piatti and many more. The most notable exception was the DKW Hobby, probably the first fully automatic using expanding pulleys and a v-belt. This was just under 100 cc, I think about 98 cc. Sadly very few of these brands still exist.
As do the Italian motorcycle brands,Laverda immediately come to mind,The Laverda Jota triple was for a few months the fastest production motorcycle in the world until the Japanese took it back with the Z1000
I think a modest turbo on a small displacement bike makes sense. It may not it may be too heavy but adding a turbo to a thumper or 250-300 could be good.
apparently helps with fuel consumption efficiency
Yes Bart, you've said it all , right there: The '80's was the PINNACLE" of motorcycles. Engineering, etc. If you look back and check the "#'s", you'll see that okay , the horsepower has come up, but the gas mileage, simplicity of maintenance and everything else hasn't really went any further, from where it was , back in the mid '80's!
My Lemans MK3 has linked breaks, they are fantastic, for a bike that age and weight the breaking is really good and very stable, even if you break in a corner which you shouldn't really do.
A lot of old german mopeds (50cc) had used a gripshift too. My first motorcycle, a Hercules Prima 5, had a 2 gear gripshift and my grandpa's Zündapp Supercombinette 429 had a 3 gear gripshift. ^^
Exactly. It was standard with all Mofas and Mopeds which were legally viewed as bicycles with assisting engines. If it had bicycle-like pedals, it had a grip shifter. Victoria Vicky, DKW Hummel, Rabeneick Binetta, Express Radex, Zündapp Kombinette… there were dozens of brands and well over a hundred various models. Same goes for all scooters that were built. Heinkel Tourist, NSU Prima, Zündapp R50, again dozens of types.
@@zweispurmopped your right but the larger 50ccm ones were not considerd bycycles anymore, at least over here in austria
@@he_exe The official Moped formula from the 1950s was that the bike had to have bicycle-style pedals, could be driven by them (Albeit awfully badly was acceptable…), 50Km/h top speed, 50cm³ stroke volume and up to 33 kilograms of weight. A handle to carry the Moped had to be installed as well. So they only were kind of bicycles. If you squinted very squintily with both eyes and accepted that that bicycle would exhaust any world class athletes within 100 metres of driving them with the pedals. ☺
Linked brakes is commonly used on Honda scooter here in Indonesia. They called it CBS (Combi-Brake System).
And the Blackbird.... I love CBS on the Blackbird.
All new 125cc bikes in europe now must have CBS or ABS.
#8 - GS 1200 has had very different front suspension for years. Interesting video - thanks.
I think the problem with grip shift is that it turns with the clutch lever. Detaching the clutch lever, however, isn't really an option as it would be pretty hard to twist it while doing a 100% squeeze on the clutch. Unlike the throttle where you're either twisting the throttle to accelerate, or squeezing the brake lever to stop using the front wheel. Actions that you usually don't do at the same time compared to clutch and shift.
Interesting post. Regarding twist grip gear change, this was common on some mopeds in the 1950/60s in the UK. Using a 50cc two speed Villiers two stroke engine with twist grip change was common for some manufacturers.
It was also very common for European/German mopeds. For example zundapp or kreidler. They even had three speeds.
Grip shift is far more common than those Italian brands. It came from mopeds and small cc utilitarian bikes.
There's been numerous kinds of front ends on bikes, and some do work better than telescopic forks for some situations. One oddity was the British "Dot" trail bike, which had no springs or shocks, but instead used rubber bushings in torsion. Hub center steering dates back to the 1920's as does many of the "modern" ideas used on motorcycles. Telescopic forks do well at everything with low cost, durability, and simple engineering which is why they will always be most common.
I have to agree on the disliking of anything between me and my direct control of the bike, for me including ABS and linked brakes too. I don't want anything to think or do for me those things I can and should be dealing with myself; it is exactly that which makes the experience of riding a motorcycle so unique and so rewarding. But sometimes I can understand others wanting different...
I was parked in a bike shop waiting my turn for something when I noticed a guy on a Honda pull in. There was something a bit odd about the way the bike sounded and how he was riding. I noticed the bike was one of their "automatic" models as he too pulled into the shop, kicked the sidestand down, then hopped off the bike onto his one leg. Gotta respect someone who loved riding so much they wouldn't let an amputated leg stop them from doing it- for him the automatic trans made all the difference in the world.
I helped a young man who had lost his hand and made a clutch operarated with his knee against the fuel tank,He had a mechanical hand probably not strong enough to pull the clutch
I agree P RO with your dislike of ABS, and can add to your info about centre hub steering - Militaire had it in 1914. Despite its French name, it was made in the USA. Cheers, Munro Berry
As much as simple fork steering design is well, simple in engineering....what i don't get is the apparent mechanical stress all going to the pivot point, the whole weight of the bike along with rider....& not a single engineering rectification on it. Seen bunch of bikes & cycle mishap & that's the first thing that's breaks off under stress. This is more of production cost cut leverage for its simplicity sake in engineering, that's why it's still prevalent. It's cute when certain narrative seem to favor but not quite.
The Simson Schwalbe also had a Gripshift. It was also quite common in the mountain bike industry.
BMW used a system called Telelever that is different from the usual teleforks.
The main reason to favor this system is that these bikes literally have no diving in under front braking. You always have full front travel even under hard braking.
In the 90's a man from Austria invented a parallelogram front fork for mountain bikes that works similar to the telelever front suspension. But in the bicycle industry it did not catch on.
The BMW Telelever was invented in the UK by Saxon-Motodd.
@@peterwilliams2152
Norman Hossack is credited with the design.
@@VintageSG Learn to read - Telelever was designed by Saxon-Motodd. Duolever was designed by Hossack amongst others.
When we were growing up in the late 60's to mid 70's, there was a kid up the street who had a (Honda?) Rabbit 90. The left grip actuated a centrifugal clutch with 3 speeds on the left grip, pulling in the clutch lever was optional. It worked either way. The vespa-style scooter was off-white, and we rode it everywhere it could go in the woods. It had a rabbit logo on it like the impala for Chevrolet.
Those were made by Fuji heavy industries, the same people making Subaru cars today! The larger Rabbit model had a fluid coupling for the transmission basically making it a twist and go like modern scooters.
Many girls in NZ has them, they would come to a standstill on steep slopes.
Polish 50cc moped Romet "Komar" (mosquito) from the '60 used to have gripshifts it was necessary because the moped had a crank like a bicycle, it was used to start the engine and you could use it to ride it like a bicycle if you ran out of gas or an engine failure (which was common because it was commie times) They dropped it later in production in favour for kickstarter and classic gearshift, mostly because the gripshift was unreliable (not switching when you wanted and switching when you didn't) and they ditched the bicycle crank since riding it like a bicycle was more of a hassle than just pushing it along ;)
Hey Bart. Interesting video, but you left one out. Anti-dive front suspension, typically front forks, but my former boss, John Long, the roadracer from Miami, Florida raced a BMW with a manual (for lack of a better word) anti-dive setup with rods and levers back in the 80s. All the other manufacturers were using some kind of hydraulic system which diverted some of the fork oil to stop the forks from compressing under braking. Incidentally, BMW's team manager was Udo Gehtle (not completely sure about the spelling of the last name), who went on the manage team Honda's roadracing effort. Anti-dive showed up on many of the major manufacturers production bikes, but it was complicated and only made front fork maintenance more of a hassle.
I rode a BMW R12C for many years and loved that bike (until the driveshaft stripped = $2500 repair!). The innovative telelever front end was very effective at keeping the front end from diving...I miss that bike 😥
@@acehandler1530 Thanks for the response. I worked on Beemers, first boxers back in the early 80s, then K bikes later in the mid to late 80s, even went to 2 BMW schools to learn how to work on the latter. However, I got out of the motorcycle industry in the early 90s and never rode a beemer with telelever suspension, altho I did read about it. Even before telelever, BMWs were great handlers and I was very impressed with ABS. I didn't know or remember that one of the features of the telelever front end was anti-dive. Thanks for clueing me in.
@@parsonscarlson7984 Had a K1200RS for awhile, really liked the bike, especially the Telelever.
Trying to work on the bike was such a PITA I sold it.
Note: 5:40 Peraves Monotracer, 6:06 Quasar, 6:34 ME in a Quasar
A very rare feature, the single sided front fork. Gilera made one and there have been several customs with it, and a couple of scooters I think.
The first bike (not a scooter) with a single sided front fork was, as far as I know, the German Riedel Imme R100, produced 1948-1950.
Harleys MX250 rear fork suspension on factory works bikes
3:42 Nope, in Germany there were also a lot of small 50cc mokicks and mopeds with the handshifter, for example old rixe or a zündapp Bergsteiger. It was very popular on 1950s and 1960s German 50ccs
Your videos are consistently interesting. This was no exception. Well done!
The Jawa Checoslovaquia 250 1956 if I recall the year had a clutch activated by the gear shift, plus the hand clutch, I rode that bike a lot did not know much but thought it was pretty cool
I started riding at the age of 15 with one of these grip shifter scooters. The scooter is from Bajaj(now part owner of KTM). There used to be competing scooter models from Vespa and Bajaj here in India in the 80s and 90s. After I moved up to motorcycles, I never missed them, but it felt good to be able to see which gear I was in. Always missed that in a motorcycle.
Was the Bajaj the copy of the Lambretta! I remember you could get one imported from India for £1200 or something! Maybe bit more expensive but bargain nonetheless!
@@WilliamLithgowGuitars yeah..pretty much same design and stuff...though I must admit I wasn't aware of Lambretta back then. 2 stroke engine meant it was quick and powerful.
I can usually tell which gear I'm in by looking at the tachometer and speedometer
My Suzuki GT550 two stroke had a "gear selecter" between the speedo and the rev counter a LED in red,Novel in it's time unnecessary though because the gear pedal would not move past top gear,Where the previous HONDA 350 the pedal would flop about giving you no indication of what gear you were in
KTM
KRONREIF TRUNKENPOLZ MATTIGHOFEN
Vespas also have spare tires, and that could be an eleventh innovation: Kudos, very informative and well made
My Ural has a universal spare mounted, swapped it when my original pusher tire started wearing down. The problem is that most motorcycles use different front and rear wheels.
@@BikerMage There are also those small Isuzu cabover trucks, that have different size front and rear wheels: 2 spares bolted together, hanging under the tray, or van body.
My favorite innovation that never caught on was the Triumph sprung hub. It’s a suspension unit contained within the rear wheel hub and it was designed to give Triumph’s existing rigid frames the option of rear suspension.
@Retired Bore not only that, it was also “potentially dangerous at high speeds” and one of the first moto accessories to come with a safety warning. It is also remembered as “a pain in the ass” literally and figuratively to repair and “one of the weirdest and worst rear suspension systems of all time”.
It was a good enough concept but simply didn't work well. Using modern metals and dry teflon sliding surfaces it would make a good addition to a hard-tail chopper, adding a bit of cushioning for the worst bumps without losing the classic hard-tail look; certainly more visual appeal than a 'savior' frame which works as equally bad as the old sprung-hubs do. Can't see much use for it on any other kind of bike though.
@@P_RO_ Maybe on bicycles ?
What about the Buell? Everything is different.
Sounds like someone has never riden one or had anything to do with them, an atrocious idea that fortunately never caught on and lasted but a few years, there are reasons why swinging arms are used on all bikes.
I have Vespas and have ridden motorbikes. The twist grip is very practical, you can easily see what gear you are in, and you can feel the vibration with your hands to know its gone into gear. Makes a lot of sense.
The linked front suspension was tried in 500cc racing and struck the problem that it lacked feel, the rider couldn’t tell when the front was going to let go
The thing in the title photo is an SR engine
We talked a lot about turbo bikes. I just remember another, quite similar innovation on scooters that - as far as I know - never caught on in this segment (only in motorbikes like the Kawasaki H2): The compressor. The Peugeot Satelis 125 Compressor (2006-2012) and the Peugeot JetForce 125 Compressor (2003-2007) were both 4-stroke-scooters with a Roots blower, available with 15 or 20 hp. Fast 'n' thirsty 🙂
nice triumph mate well clean cant beat brit iorn every one china an japan nicked alot jus made it better but they neve make there own #
i ridw a firestorm vtr 22 year old bike still keep up with most bikes i like a bike yo have to ride not all these stopid mods the weekend bikes with all the kit more money than sence cant werk o new bikes have to put them in a shop its a big rip of the 400 deram waz auto an cub waz the first
@@gruffrossi5420 I agree, even if I have no idea why you wrote your posts under my comment 🙂
I once had an old hard tailed, HD, two stroke, single that had a left grip mounted , 3 speed, shifter clutch like you show here. I thought it worked just fine, but I did not ride it in the woods or on the trails, either. I imagine that it might have some problems, there.
My grandfather has a bunch of old crescent mopeds with grip shift. It's pretty cool
Nice review!
2 things missing in my own opinion:
- my BMW R69 had a swing arm for, known here in France as "Earles" fork. Amazing thing was that the drummer brake was mounted on the horizontal arm, and when braking, the front of the bike and the head light
In sweden the R69 (euro model)'s front suspension is could "ölgaffel" the translets to "bear"(that you drink)-fork, but the usdm models had normal "right" way turned forks (by old standard, meaning hydraulics on the bottom).
I have used an Earles front end on a bike I was building and when it came to riding and braking, it had both good and bad habits, as follows... When braking, application of the lever caused the front of the machine to thrust UPWARDS instead of down. On normal bikes, using the front brake will tighten your cornering ability. With an Earles, it takes you to the high side of the turn, but, it also applies more downward force on the rear wheel. In short, it imitates the motions and results of a panic stop by a horse. This, in a motorcycle, is not to be despised. I became rather adept at juggling these reactions and hoped they would become something more of the norm, but with the exception of the R-69, I never saw another. Mine came from a junk pile that was all that was left of some antique European bike that had been between a concrete barrier and an 18 wheel truck.
Apart from BMW, most seem to be aftermarket systems for sidecar use.
Just to finish my comment, before I got pissed by my computer keyboard errors...
I was surprised you didn' mention the Moto Guzzi 1000 Convert, which had a real "convertisseur" and not a computerized operated gearbox.
I chickened out at the time, and bought the 5 gears manual version.
In my very early days of riding, I had a Honda PS50, wich had a 3 speeds gearbox controlled by handlebar rotating grip. Very slow bike, but gearbox and 4 stroke engine were not common on mopeds at the time!
@@russbilzing5348 in the 60s Sachs,down& Greece's dirt bikes had leading link front forks,which were handy. They didn't dip when brake's we're applied,so you had full travel when you hit bumps after braking, but hard to wheelie ,cause extra front end weight
Honda had a great linked braking system where the rear brakes engaged the middle piston of the front caliper, as well. It works amazingly well, I have it on my VTX1800, and it adds stability to stops that really helps on larger bikes. You can still skid, since the front has3 pistons on each side, total of 6, you're only engaging 2 of the 6, just barely noticeable, but very helpful in some situations. I believe the front brake lever works the same way, engaging about 20% of the rear, but I'm sure.
I have the same on my Honda Silverwing scooter. Works great! It was invented by Moto Guzzi :-)
My friends and I used to ride our German-made Puch and Zundapp mopeds (49cc) to highschool back in the '70s. Left hand side grip gear shifters were very common back then. But it required some serious hand-strength to hold and twist the grip (to the right gear!) at the same time. It was just NOT a convenient system!
It was indeed common on a lot of 60's and 70's mopeds. Never found it hard to shift, maybe you rode a bike with bad rusty cables.
And this is one of the problems, the control cables have to be adjusted right to get in to the right gear.
The way the system works means it is also not suitable for higher power bikes, say >150cc.
AFAIK the Puch was also sold with left foot gear shifter, but I remember the left handlebar shifter on several 50 cc mopeds back then.
@@thorman1742 My first motorcycle was a Puch, an early 60's moped, and I was 14. It had a left foot shifter and true to it's moped name you could pedal it although up hills was almost impossible.
I didn't see anyone else mention the dual-wishbone front suspension that Honda introduced on their 2018 Goldwing. I, personally, found it to be much smoother riding front end than any other bike I've ridden.
I do believe the big GS has something similar also
I think a small to medium capacity supercharged bike would work well. Plenty of torque and great fuel efficiency would be perfect for real world riding.
There were people making grip shifters as an aftermarket product. The guy I bought one off of (for my mod'd Vespa) said he designed it for a friend that was paraplegic and wanted to race. They also tied both brakes to the handle bar lever.
On the subject of automatic transmissions, they have taken off in a big way in the scooter/light motorcycle vehicles that are common all through SE Asia. Some are the "it does everything for you" types, but what's also common is a transmission that allows you to shift, but you don't have to use the clutch at all.
These are really popular all through SE Asia, and the smaller Honda bike I ride around town and for errands uses this kind of transmission.
It is now common on really big bikes as well.
It's not automatic It's belt drive,Just because you don't change gear make it a automatic and the second is clutchless which does have gear probably 3
I had an NSU Quickly (well, three of them actually!). Two had a two speed handlebar grip change, one had a three speed change. The three speed was always breaking gearbox parts.
My father has a classic 150cc vespa with a grip shift, I can tell you why they didn’t catch on, it’s because they suck. Trying to let out the clutch in 1st is horrible because your fingers are pointing to the sky meaning your wrist is bent really weirdly. It’s hard to get any finesse with them
Imagine running into the back of someone with your hand like that.. thats gonna hurt!
actually Moto Guzzi developed some kind of Automatic transmission for its Idroconvert (california 1000), replacing manual gearbox with a torque converter built by Sachs, and two-speed gearbox. The consequential lack of braking effect of the 4-stroke engine is what pushed Moto Guzzi to develop and adopt the "integral braking" or linked braking system.
The grip shift appears nice and simple, as long as you’re not riding in the dark and/or bad weather. Also, the clutch cable needs maintenance regularly. And, yes, in Europe, there were a lot of Mopeds with this shifter setup; I.e. Zündapp, Hercules (Gernany) Puch (Austria) and Simson (German Democratic Republic), and I’m pretty sure there are more.
Greetings from the other side, ride safe.
I can add Flandria, malaguti and garelli for sure and maybe gitane test and Peugeot :)
@MrBuellMike...Why do you think that an extra cable running up to the handlebars is nice or simple?
Or that one side of the handlebars has more play in it than the other?
Just because there were a lot of this shifter made does not make it a good idea, unless there were a lot of people in Europe missing their Left Foot.
@@truthsRsung hey there, you got me wrong… I always found the grip shift unpractical, that’s why I wrote „APPEARS nice and simple“…! Greetings, Mike.
@@MrBuellMike ....Hot tip...Sarcasm does not translate in written form well without an 😉.
@@truthsRsung 😋👍🏻
GTS owner here ;) It `s a good handling bike, bit heavy to push around but for it`s size and weight surprisingly agile up to about 90kph, not sure what happens to it when you enter highway speeds but the whole bike just transforms into a very steady high speed mode like if it had adaptive power steering. Can also lug quite a bit of cargo with the full pannier kit without affecting ridability. A real unsung hero IMO.
He mistakenly called the GTS 1000 a Honda. I don't know if you noticed that or not.
I always wanted to see someone develop a real-life "Keneda's Bike" from Akira. I'm surprised you didn't mention anything like the single-side swingarm or dual-spar frame (both included on Honda's amazing 1988 NT650GT "Hawk".
Most BMW and Ducatis have single side swingarm, and some Hondas too besides the amazing 1988 Hawk... I love the Hawk too.
Googling the word "Keneda's Bike" and this one came up. th-cam.com/video/xag80zTh774/w-d-xo.html
Look at the love of my life. A Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive. Comfort. Amazing electric windscreen. Fuel injection for easy starting. Lots of foot room. An amazingly well-tuned CVT transmission. Will do over 110mph and give 60mpg while flogging it. Stablemates are a Honda Goldwing SE and Yamaha 650 Maxim. The "half a busa" is my favorite.
I learned to ride motor equipped bikes on a twist grip shifter equipped scooter. My dad owned a Vespa knock off. It took an good amount of strength to get it to shift because the mechanism uses cables. Also, the position of the clutch lever would keep moving and put it way out of a comfortable position if it had more than 4 gears. The clutch lever position was already drastically different between 1st and 4th gear. The clutch develops all sorts of up and down play because all the twisting torque from the left hand passed through it. Good riddance I say.
Nothing beats the cost, weight advantage and simplicity of a fork. Good enough for MotoGP, Motocross or Hard Enduro, or even downhill mountain biking, good enough for all consumers. Some suspension dive is desirable for motorcycles because it reduces wheelbase and makes a bike more willing to turn under braking, and often, the fastest way around a turn involves trail braking.
Dude, twist grips were the only gear changing mechanism on Vespa scooters, from the 1940s though to 2017 - bajillions of them were made, and people were quite happy with them.
I've been on K1600s since 2012. Their linked braking system is so good that, to be perfectly honest, I rarely use the rear brake, alone, even at walking speeds. Probably not the best habit, but the linked brakes truly are that good.
Our boy here thinks BMW only makes cars.
Telelever front fork and linked braking "didn't catch on?"
How does he think ABS works on a motorcycle without linked braking?
@russmiller7284 - "I rarely use the rear brake, alone, even at walking speeds. Probably not the best habit."
Why would anyone think that using the rear brake alone is a *good* habit, when it's the surest and easiest way to lock up a wheel and get into a skid?
@@jackx4311 ...That shouldn't be answered in the uTube comment section.
Instead of watching top ten videos, search for motorcycle safety videos, or find a class.
many small mopeds in germany also had a grip shift system. they had mostly 2 or three gears and where used in mopeds/mofas from many manufactorys like Hercules, Puch, KTM, Zündapp, NSU or Simson. some also had an 2 speed automatic transmission
The twist grip gear change was cable operated and needed to be adjusted often as it became difficult to use. It might have improved from the early 1970s I'm talking about though.
I love the way you credit Honda for the GTS hub center steering as the GTS was a Yamaha, as clearly shown in the picture accompanying your voice over.
That about sums up what your opinions are worth to me. You might actually try riding some of these bikes before expressing your flatulence about them. For example, twist grip gear shifts have been, and still are, used on a wide variety of two wheeled vehicles where it is impracticable to use ones feet to shift gears. I have two bicycles that use a twist grip to shift gears. Just because you are ignorant about them does not mean they don't exist. They still do and they work very well.
Sadly today's motorcycles have descended into fashion statements, Most are like their riders. Fat and loud. I was drawn to motorcycling sixty years ago as it was the closest thing to flying that could experience. Modern bikes are too big, too heavy, and too slow to change direction, including many so called 'sport' bikes. I blame the lawyers and accountants.
Yes,I noticed that glaring cock up as well. I guess he thinks you can just call it whatever you like...a Yamkawahonzuki is as good as anything. Another channel that is very light on accurate detail.
Hear hear. If this channel shows anything, its the lack of knowledge, experience and research of its owner.
You said it for me as well
No mention of the Rotary engines? Norton, Suzuki. Herkules, Van Veen? Or the lengthwise mounted inline four cylinder of the Danish Nimbus bikes? Six cylinder bikes never really took off, either. Honda Gold wing are the only ones to kind of stick to that concept.
There were so many wonderfully quirky designs! 🤗
Thanks, been scrolling forever to see if Wankel/Rotary would make it in here!
I agree. There are ideas out there that do not make sense, and someone actually proved it by trying. Great video!
Hey...62 years of consistent motorcycle touring in a number of different countries are my credentials. I owned a CX500 Turbo at one time and it was maybe the best touring motorcycle I have ever owned. The model attracted some bad press and most riders didn't know that you need RPM to make them perform. Anyhow, it suited me and my riding/touring style and was very reliable.
Some off these motorcyclists are brain dead,I used the entire rev range in all gears not just knock it into top and the call it gutless,Yamaha made the YPVS the thinking was to widen the power across the whole band but some off the brain dead could not understand why it didn't have a powerband
I loved the linked breaks on my Honda ST1300. It was very reassuring to know that if I panicked and forgot to use both brakes, they would still both engage to some degree.
bikes don't employ the twist-grip shifter because it's a lot cheaper and simpler to mount it directly to the selector on the case, and shifting is quicker. why it was on the handlebars was because of the form factor - on a scooter, your feet generally don't do anything (the lambretta did have a rear brake pedal) which was why they were driven to devise the system. my scooter has CVT, which is a cool innovation in itself.
9:21 Actually, the Jawa brand first came up with this in 1963 with the Jawa 250 automatic motorcycle.
Panelka 🙂 Jawa 250 type 559.
Linked brakes have became pretty common on low CC bikes here in brazil in the last few years or so
my 2010 honda NHX110 Elite (Lead everywhere outside the North america) has linked brakes on the typical rear only lever
My first bike had some very unusual innovations. Fully enclosed chain. Rear wheel could be quickly removed leaving the chain and sprocket attached to the swing arm. And the front and rear wheels were identical and interchangeable allowing you to even out the wear on the tyres. And sometimes, when I thought I had engaged first gear it would reverse! (I'm not sure if that was a feature or a fault.) The mighty Voskhod 175!
Well, I have to say that I do like the linked brakes with ABS on my Honda VF1200F. Makes it much safer when there is sand, water or anything that may cause the front wheel to lock up or slip when braking.
I had an Italian Itom Tabor Sport 62cc with handlebar mounted gear change - this was back in the 60s - and the problem was that it used two Bowden cables and keeping them in perfect tension was difficult. A missed gear could result in stripping the teeth off the gear primary drive.
Well done. I was a kid when the Rokon came along, in about 1972. Looks like it has hardly changed at all! I actually saw just one back then, even though my father and I were very active dirt riders, in any area where the Rokon should have worked quite well. Dad took some interest in them (I only cared about motocross bikes, really), but never bought one.
The 2X2 electric farmbike made in NZ is expensive but very popular for rough country farming, is on TH-cam.
I traded in my Yamaha FJ1200 in the mid 90’s for a new bike. I tried the GTS1000. It stuck to the road like Velcro when cornering, a fantastic ride. Then I hit traffic in Canterbury (in the UK) and was sat in the bike moving it forwards with my feet a metre at a time for about 30 minutes. (Yes, traffic can be that bad in Canterbury). It weighed a ton.
I ended up buying another FJ1200, this time with ABS, with a free set of Giwi luggage as a sweetener.
My ZÜNDAPP Super Combinette also had grip shift. 3 gears operated by a "Ziehkeil" The best translation for Ziehkeil is probably plunger.
I confirm this for my '66 Zundapp Combinette 2-speed single-seater moped! Zündapp stuck to the draw key transmission until the end. Was maybe one of the brand's coffin nails...
For automatics, you forgot the Moto Guzzi 1000cc Convert a very usable motorcycle.
I had a Hondamatic Hawk. Wasn't my first choice for riding but it was such a great bike to ride around the countryside on. Super curvy, S bend, tight roads were so much easier to navigate. Really let me just relax.
I got a Honda helix by accident and loved it! I am a dedicated scooter rider now.. and have been for 30 years.
Basic electrical and mechanical components! No electronics except for ignition! Thank You!
It has always struck me as odd that the simple pair of front forks remains the standard on basically anything that isn't a BMW R-bike, whereas dual rear shocks/springs have been relegated to "classic" models for decades now. When I've ridden Bimmers with the telelever, it really does make the bike feel more controlled under hard braking. I don't know what it's supposed disadvantages are, or why it isn't more common, but I dig it.
The Honda Gyro Canopy are still super popular as food delivery vehicles in Japan, it rains often and the roads are small and low speed so they make a lot of sense over there.
My first "motorcycle" was a Harley M-50 with twist-grip shifting (3 speed ?). While my friends were riding similar Sears and Montgomery Ward bikes, the little Harley was top dog!! Thanks for conjuring up these old memories.
My 2003 BMW R1200CL has linked brakes, and I love it! It feels very controllable.
I started riding in 1965, and almost all scooters and mopeds then had twist shift, it was considered standard equipment. One noticeable scooter that had foot shift was the C-Zeta, and that was also made in New Zealand under license as the N-Zeta. Front Suspension: You didn't mention BMW's amazing Telelever front suspension. I was given a ride on one when they first came out and it is astonishing. Totally stable, you could apply full front brakes and there is no dive and the front end is completely stable. Remember that BMW were the first company to have hydraulically damped front forks, too, in the 1930's.
BMW have always tried something different with front ends. Dont forget they used leading link well into the 70's
@@malcolmgee6812 I have an R75/5 that was made in 1973, it has telescopic front forks. The Earles front forks were gone in 1972.
Well done. Time well spent. Thank you.