I love the way the right conveniently forget that 18 Tory MPs were kicked out of the party in the last government. At one point Tory independents outnumbered Libdems
It was 21. The 21 Tory Brexit traitors, who vandalised the constitution and tried to overthrow democracy. They should never have been allowed back in. It's they who have led the Tories to destruction.
@@robcarrol Boris was right to do so. They removed a democratically-elected prime minister and replaced him with Corbyn without there having been an election. No PM could tolerate such treachery. The 21 Tory tr41tors: Clarke, Hammond Gauke, Greening, Grieve, Clark, Letwin, Stewart, Soames, Burt, Gyimah, S. Hammond, Bebb, Benyon, Brine, Harrington, James, Milton, Nokes, Sandbach, Vaizey.
@@robcarrolKen Clarke gladly did Thatcher’s bidding which was carry out policies that decimated many jobs and communities.. Rory Stewart’s voting record cannot be dismissed. Decent human beings do not become Tories.
There are millions of Left wing voters that Labour has abused and disenfranchised. Starmer's Labour is very vulnerable to losing dozens of seats in the cities. London can fall.
It will take more than half a dozen new parties to fix English politics. The entire political system in England is centuries past its sell by date. We need a complete overhaul of our politics, left, right and centre, to develop a parliamentary system fit for the 21st century and beyond, not the 16th century "traditions" that currently make our national parliament nothing more than an anachronistic zoo.
The U.K. system is actually quite good in that it allows representation of small populations. The media is our biggest threat to democracy. Everyone knows both sides of the media lie. If the media was truthful and non partisan, with news being separated from opinion, people would vote with factual information, rather than how the media makes them feel.
They campaigned on a platform of fiscal responsibility. It would be awesome if we could give everyone in the world an Apple Macbook pro, but we need to make sure the country can afford what it's handing out.
@@Bobbydyland ‘country before party’ was their slogan. The suspensions scream that Starmer puts party first. The vote wasn’t about giving everyone a MacBook Pro.
@@onenote6619 If couples cannot afford more than two children, they should not have them and certainly shouldn’t expect the working man and woman to pay their tax to keep the children. They should be individually fiscally responsible and should not be rewarded for being fiscally irresponsible. If they can afford to raise ten children using their own resources, go for it. I strongly object to paying tax to keep them. Large families were normal a century ago and earlier but they were not kept by the taxpayers of the time.
They knew the conditions set down by Starmer. If they can't wait until autumn so that numbers can be crunched and universal credit be assessed it shows they're petulant trouble makers jumping the gun. They're pathetic. Go form your own party.
That's "Gideon" Osborne. His name is Gideon. Not George. He was called George to play down his posh boy credentials. Black hole in the finances they say... doubt we will be able to afford 3 billion per year to Ukraine. Just totally unaffordable. Oh dear, what a shame.
I’d love another party like that. I voted independent in my constituency for a candidate who had previously run for Labour but has been kicked out. I reckon if Jeremy Corbyn and the 7 made a new party, she would probably join it and may have a better chance in the next election.
Some in the tory party are more left than the labour party.admittedly not many. Pele unfortunately have no place in the labour party who only seem to be interested in chasing the right wing vote.
Long Bailey, Burgon, McDonell? These guys can do one. These amateurs were responsible for tories winning in 2017 and 2019 and what has happened to the UK since.
@@kathrynboniface3455. Yes yes yes…..why the f..k do I have a blue passport then ? Just tell me why Corbyn imposed a 3 line whip to support a minority Tory government get Article 50 through parliament….and he didn’t even know what the Tories were planning !!.,
@kathrynboniface3455 Kid Starver? Are you one of these Corbynites who hate the taxpaying public but who'd love to dole out their taxes on pet-projects?
The first thing they have to do is to resign their seats and seek re-election. They were voted in just 3 weeks ago on the Labour manifesto, so if they choose to remain outside the Labour party they need to seek the agreement of their constituents.
This is why it was important that Starmer won a majority as large as he did - so he could face down the far left leftovers in his party with impunity. These folks can threaten all they like - they will get nowhere except in their own little echo chambers which are irrelevant from a governmental point of view.
Corbyn's Labour got 40% of a much higher turnout in 2017 and a lot more votes than Starmer's Labour did this year, and that was with a supportive media, Starmer may be PM but he's a puppet for those wielding the real power.
@@tybulustyburn5580 voted Labour in 2019 and 2024, so hardly. You are obviously the kind of Labour supporter who really enjoys virtue signalling - and being out of power.
This is why Labour have held power for about 10 minutes in the last 110 years and the Tories the rest. Some Labour MPs would rather be in opposition and keep their precious principles. They play politics with people's lives, instead of sticking together to ensure the country is not subjected to callous cruelty. That's something you won't find the Tories doing.
Without a doubt, some commentators on TH-cam seem to hate Starmer more than the Tories. Despite 14 years of corruption, cruelty and austerity, they plot to attack a Labour government within days of coming into office
The callous cruelty of Thatcherism is safe in the hands of the red Tories. Read Rawls about the kind of society we need or Faiza Shaheen's excellent Know Your Place about the structural injustices that prevent a fair society that works for all. Then you might begin to understand how the left has the answers and think in future before posting such an ignorant comment.
@@ianworley8169 The Tories targeted the terminally online echo chambers, look where it got them. Let them start their own party based on internalised jargon and conformity, and see how well they do.
@@eightiesmusic1984 Rude and unnecessary ending there. Not everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant. And in fact, I'm probably more left wing than you will ever be. I was at Orgreave and even further back at Wapping. But most people aren't politically active and we have to work within that in an imperfect democracy. I know all about left leaning writers like Polly Toynbee and older ones like Michael Foot. They all have one thing in common. They did not stop or even slow Conservative rule. We have to take everyone in this Labour government with us. If not, it's a massive lurch to the Right. You have a choice. You can read your books and intellectualise politics into oblivion, or you can contribute. Start by joining me at my local food bank.
So happy to take the funding, support of party volunteers and campaign for the manifesto at the recent GE, only to renege when they resume their seats in the HoC? 🤔
Jeremy Corbyn has been doing it for 40+ years He was only in the Labour Party for his nice comfortable salary whilst he went off and enjoyed playing at his hobby: ideology and protesting
@RobinHarris-nf4yv you realise JC won as an independent, right? The could do this due to his local personal popularity as a dedicated hard working local MP.
Good get them out of labour, no place for them there, extreme left, and like the extreme right only in it for themselves, never thinking of the big picture or others. This is the dumbest part of the row: Labour has suspended seven rebel MPs for voting for an amendment that aligns with Labour policy. There's a lot of nuance to this situation, but the result is that Labour is now having a row about a policy on which they all seem to agree. It looks like government politics hasn't stopped being utterly crazy after all. It's a cap on universal credit, not child benefit; this will go, but only when it is affordable, e.g., in the budget and costed, you can't have it both ways, can't demand to have a responsible party and then demand irresponsible actions. This was just a case of idiot MP's forcing a pointless situation. Even the Tories did not have this level of in-house stupidity. That being said these are corbynists, so not fully unexpected. - a good and balanced run down here, th-cam.com/video/Xx2Od_B8T24/w-d-xo.html
Exactly. It was all procedural. Not a difference in policy. But the previous Labor leader just likes to hold grudges. He and his minions really should have just faded into the Sunset. Or maybe work together with the new Labor leader. But no. Have to grandstand.
That's exactly why they need to go. The amendment was politiking by the SNP. They designed the amendment to disrupt and frustrate Labour. They know, as do these rebels, that Labour will, in due course, get to sorting this out. Labour have entered government with a clear plan and they're trying to execute that plan.
I don’t know enough about the issue to know how I feel about it. But a six month suspension for voting against the government once on a relatively minor issue doesn’t make sense. At least have a 3 strikes and your out rule.
All money is created from thin air. Money is not a scare resource for government as it issues it. The limit is just the availability of real resources to spend it on.
I think they should form a new party, but only with an agreement with other left wing parties and independents to only have one progressive standing per seat.
I see a lot of comments supporting the Labour stance that forgets that scrapping the two child limit would lift a lot of families out of child poverty.
Given the authoritarian shift of Starmer's Labour and its centralisation of candidate selection , these MPs have a low chance of being Labour candidates next time. Their best chance is to be independent now, and spend the next 4 years building their profile and campaign locally. Or join the Greens and boost its profile, membership and finances. Millions of Left voters would follow.
Beware the enemy within - The language in Starmer's camp when Corbyn and Abbott got elected must have been quite choice. Momentum never went away, and now they have a focus.
Yet another reason why we need electoral reform in the shape of PR. If they want to continue as "independents" or form another party by law they should be made to face a by-election, most people vote for a party label.
We do not need PR because as has been shown all over the world it leads to minority parties having much more power than their vote share warrants. Perfect example Israel where four far right MP's are forcing the war to continue by threatening to bring down the government if they don't get their way. PR leads to weak government very often controlled by minor parties.
@@kathrynboniface3455 well under 50% of the electorate didn't vote for Brexit so why did we get that? If you don't vote then you have no say or rather your say was I don't care one way or the other so yes they do get represented because they chose not to vote.
They need to be very wary if they form another party; four very senior Labour MP's Jenkins, Owen, Rodgers and Williams left Labour in the 1980's and formed a new party and failed and they were all much more senior MP's than the seven who have rebelled. Gaza will ultimately be settled and those Independents, unless they do a brilliant job, will be voted out at the next election.
How exactly do you think Gaza will be settled? It hasn’t been settled in over 70 years. Starmer has supported war crimes and unless politicians acknowledge the genocide and the authority of the international criminal court, there are an abundance of voters who will see this as a deal breaker. For other voters it proves that Labour learned nothing from Iraq.
If these rebel MPs don't want to support the Labour party policies on which they were elected, then they should leave. They should also then stand for re-election as independents and see if their constituents support them or the Labour party.
What ever happened to remaining and trying to change policy within the party.starmer was elected leader on a whole load of promises and then threw them all out as soon as he was elected.seems he learnt a lesson from boris.lie to your back teeth to get elected.this may be effective but just demonstrates how far down into the sewers politics have gone.the tories were reelected despite turning our rivers into sewers.we will reap what we have sown.
Equally... all these Zionist MP's aren't true Labour MP's... Labour was never created to support war crimes and genocide... Kier Starmer said he Wasn't a Zionist, to become leader,... and made bogus socialist pledges... then said he Was a Zionist, without qualification... If Kier Starmer was truthful, he would never even be leader...
The weakness of Patrick Maquire's narrative is that he isn't speaking about matters from the point of view of: these seven suspended Labour MPs, Jeremy Corbyn, or that part of the electorate looking to this eight and others for political representation. This is demonstrated by the terms he uses to refer to this grouping: "Corbynites", "disruptors", "radical left" (and "Gaza MPs"); where he's looking at and understanding the members of this grouping, from a viewpoint other than their own. The fact Patrick then effectively ignores, is the threat of silencing some points of view, this amounting to a disenfranchising of a significant constituency in the electorate and our society. The thinking this eight and others have to do, is not "marketing" as Patrick has it, but rather strategic regards how best to ward of this threat of effective silencing. History telling us loudly, as does current global politics, the dreadful consequences where authoritarian tendencies and regimes succeed in such silencing. Patrick might, had he acknowledged this matter of silencing (and its concomitant authoritarianism), have had something more to say about why this matter of "independents" has arisen and become significant.
Those 6 Labour MP's who have been suspended, will never be trusted by Kier Starmer and 'his moderate front bench mp's', I think that the Labour party may split again like the SdP early 1980's did ...
They should go they obviously just want to be politicians of protest and not in government,we need grown up politicians who have to live in the real world.
It’s always the same usual suspects , and they should start their own party if they don’t agree with the front bench . Snag is they all like the gravy train !
the left vote is already split 3 or 4 ways. In our broken political system, even if they don't like it, it's in their best interest to stick to the big party that sort-of or sometimes represents their views. That's better than giving up an election in spite to a smaller portion of the vote that's a plurality, but is much less representative of their views. That's just how it goes in first past the post; barely anybody gets what they want, and it makes people look like they support things that they don't support.
Better all round if the suspended MPs form a new alliance or even join whatever Leftie party they want and let Labour provide a decade of progress, modest at first, but perhaps more ambitious in future. These grifters can take their salaries and allowances and carry on for a bit and even longer, their electorate stomachs their BS. I know this from having supported 'the Left' eg Corbyn in the past. although carrying a bag of doubt. Enough is enough!
Please carry on and I hope you get more support. The other parties are just waiting for things to kick off and then the country can see what a rabble the Labour Party really is.
@patrikfloding7985 As I am taking my leave I cared not who wins. I dearly love this country but detest the self important media who think anything they write will be read for eternity and have some authority to say who will be the better. As a friend who is an antiquarian bookseller says best sellers are the cheapest in the second hand market. Take care and maybe see you in five years.
If couples cannot afford more than two children, they should not have them and certainly shouldn’t expect the working man and woman to pay their tax to keep the children. They should be individually fiscally responsible and should not be rewarded for being fiscally irresponsible. If they can afford to raise ten children using their own resources, go for it. I strongly object to paying tax to keep them. Large families were normal a century ago and earlier but they were not kept by the taxpayers of the time.
Do you support immigration then. If most people cannot afford to have children and they shouldn’t be subsidised then we need to make up the population shortfall.
So, in theory, if 150 MPs defected from Labour to form a 'I can't believe it's not Labour' party, would that make them the opposition party, as they would have more seats than the Conservative? How would this affect parliamentary time allocations?
@@haaaaaay Actually, he was part od "Blue Labour" which wanted more conservative (small-C) in the Labour Party. Regardless, Ummuna left Labour because of Corbyn, failed to win any seats and sidled off to work for JP Morgan.
The unions aren’t going to split with Labour. Their political influence comes from being embedded into the foundations of the Labour Party, and the fact that Labour are sometimes in government.
Murdock’s Times Radio just mischief making doing their masters bidding. As for the Trades Unions….this Labour Government are about to repeal the Laws passed by the Tories !!! The leadership of these Unions will be getting their P45’s if they de affiliate from Labour.
There's only one antidote to Corbynite........Blairite! Education, education, education......she was the people's princess. I'll prepare the dossier...
Corbyn's policies were compared with those of Angela Merkel by, amongst others, Andrew Marr taking the p*ss out of John McDonnell calling himself a 'socialist'. It's the Overton window that's shifted. We just stood still. Now the country is up Faeces Creek and we're just standing there, nodding, and saying 'Er... yeah' while the so-called 'normal' people try to work out what's gone wrong.
@@douglasmacari8707 I agree - imo it should be called the proper left - the left that existed (and co-existed with the right of the party) in the 1940's 50's and 60 's, and whose contribution leavens the debate, and insures it's not just a tory-lite miasma of an organisation. Those of us who predicted Starmer would be a mini-Stalin are already being shown to have had a point.- and there's still potentially 4 years and 11 .5 months ( at least) of this government to go. With as much respect as I can muster, @jaybee4288 I think you might need to study, or re-study, some history and think about what you are saying; what you predict is such an obvious potential hostage to fortune I think you should re-consider it ( in case it's not obvious to you, that's a nice way of saying that what you wrote is ridiculous).
Off they go then. The ERG of the Left. I hope they don’t let the door hit on their behinds. Them and those with the begging bowls out. Starmer has their number. It’s a shock to the client media that a party leader can actually do politics. They haven’t worked out how to handle him.
Voters should have more of a choice. If they want to vote hard left they should be able to, although I probably wouldn't support anything to do with the useless Corbyn. But it needs proper PR voting (not AV) to sustain choice and fair votes.
They voted to get children out of poverty and the Times headbangers think that makes them equivalent to the far right Reform nutters? Great journalism boys. Another roaring success for the Oxbridge lot
That's a very selfish way of thinking about the world. I guess we should stop all government assistance then... to small companies, to private schools, to churches, to heritage buildings...
@@tombarry2523 You seem to be saying that children deserve a safe and fulfilling childhood unless their parents don't meet your standards, in which case let them go hungry
@@jumbo4billion If children are going hungry because the parents had more than two kids, then social welfare needs to step in and help until they get back on track. That does not mean the two child benefits cap needs to be removed for everybody unless the government is trying to increase the birth rate. For me, having kids is a huge responsibility. Don’t have more if you can’t provide for them.
Well it’s called a Democracy so that’s fine 😊 anyway we need checks and balances it’s unhealthy for democracy for their to be no effective opposition. Or for millions of people to feel disenfranchised I think that independents of the left should all form their own socialist party
That's right Times Radio, report on just over half a dozen disgruntled Labour MP's and build it into the downfall of the new government, pathetic considering the Tories are genuinely tearing themselves apart.
Those with Iong memories wiII recaII the SociaI Democratic Party founded in 1981 by BiII Rogers, ShirIey WiIIiams, Roy Jenkins and David Owen, a break away from the Iabour Party and they were poIiticians of considerabIy more stature than Corbyn and Co. AIthough at first the SDP attracted considerabIe attention, this soon subsided and they were absorbed by the IiberaI Party..I doubt a new breakaway Party wiII fare much better.
Fancy a future guess? John McD will return, Rebecca Long-Bailey will not. John McD, although branded by you as a Corbynite, actually drifted away (and pretty rapidly towards the end) from Corbyn at the end, when it was clear that JC time was up. Just my opinion. I don't think John McD would get voted in, as an independent, so for him it will be: Labour or bust. Just my two-pence worth. Would have been interesting to see what the likes of Dennis Skinner would have done - someone who most certainly would not back down. Starmer will need to be careful, 5 ish MPs could be vital in a next election.
I’m not a Corbyn supporter, his way of doing politics is ideology above strategy, hence why he kept losing. But I do like John McDonnell, He comes across as very sensible in interviews and not cult like. Rebecca Long Bailey is a female Corbyn, a protestor not an achiever
@RobinHarris-nf4yv I think your summary of Long-Bailey and John McD is a perfect example of why I think one will leave, and the other will return. As you say, Long-Bailey is 'more Corbyn' so I think may fancy her chances as an independent (and would win, in my opinion). John McD...... in my opinion.... would be more likely to 'tow the party line'. Which seems in agreement with your interpretation. I'm not agreeing with any, or either, but this benefit cap has surely been enlightening for those on the left, right and centre. The 'do anything for their communities' Burnham, Cooper, et al., were not suspended, therefore all voted in favour of keeping the benefit two child cap.
@@drgjenkins4361 nobody voted in favour of keeping the two child cap. They voted for the Kings speech and not for an SNP amendment which was purely bait to stir up trouble.
Not such a bad idea. We need a proper left wing party and a proper right wing party. Labour, the Tories and Lib Dems could amalgamate as a centrist dad party. They are barely distinguishable now anyway.
They're still sitting as MPs and doing the work of an MP. I'm not sure why they need to forgo their salary to meaningfully oppose child poverty. You wouldn't ask an MP who wants to fund Ukraine to go without pay to legitimise their position.
@@callumlawson9735 But if they were, REALLY, REALLY in conscience SO troubled by the policy a REALLY MEANINGFUL thing would be to forgo their salaries, and show, in solidarity they are willing to make sacrifices otherwise , it's just gesturing.
@@russellbaston974 You wouldn't apply that standard to any other policy. Want to fix potholes? Why don't you pay for them? Want to fund trident? Get your wallet out. It's just a strange double standard; also I'm sure several of them already give generously to charities dealing with poverty in the UK.
@@callumlawson9735 No double standards at all. They stood as, and were elected as Labour MP’s. The Government’s policies were set out in the King’s Speech, perhaps an arcane institution but to vote directly against is, by definition a vote of ‘ no confidence’ in their own Party/Government. They could resign and stand as independents.
Even with FPTP, Starmers majority is not secure. Many seats were on a knife edge, and his voter share is abysmal. In addition to that, the Greens saw a massive increase in voter share, and they only won so many seats in Scotland because people wanted to give the SNP a kicking. A stalinist approach to the whip is just rather silly, and proves that Starmer is much closer to Cameron and Johnson than he is to Blair. Look at the 97 numbers compared to 2024 - anyone who thinks that Labour are secure at the next election are at best delusional.
I love the way the right conveniently forget that 18 Tory MPs were kicked out of the party in the last government. At one point Tory independents outnumbered Libdems
It was 21. The 21 Tory Brexit traitors, who vandalised the constitution and tried to overthrow democracy. They should never have been allowed back in. It's they who have led the Tories to destruction.
The 21 Tory leftist-traitors are: Clarke, P. Hammond, Gauke, Clark, Letwin, Geening, Grieve, Stewart, Soames, Burt, Gyimah, S. Hammond, Bebb, Benyon, Brine, Harrington, James, Milton, Nokes, Sandbach, Vaizey.
Boris got rid of the last few Tories that were also decent human beings, like Rory Stewart and Ken Clarke
@@robcarrol Boris was right to do so. They removed a democratically-elected prime minister and replaced him with Corbyn without there having been an election. No PM could tolerate such treachery. The 21 Tory tr41tors: Clarke, Hammond Gauke, Greening, Grieve, Clark, Letwin, Stewart, Soames, Burt, Gyimah, S. Hammond, Bebb, Benyon, Brine, Harrington, James, Milton, Nokes, Sandbach, Vaizey.
@@robcarrolKen Clarke gladly did Thatcher’s bidding which was carry out policies that decimated many jobs and communities.. Rory Stewart’s voting record cannot be dismissed. Decent human beings do not become Tories.
Not quite sure less than 2% of Labour MPs could threaten a rice pudding.
Or even a human bollard like sir Keithbot?
Is the government of the day a pudding 😂
Yeah...then the fact that under Corbyn the Labour Party became the largest political party in the West sinks in.
There are millions of Left wing voters that Labour has abused and disenfranchised. Starmer's Labour is very vulnerable to losing dozens of seats in the cities. London can fall.
I like mine with strawberry jam.
There was Farage who? and now a significant chunk of Tory voters.
Yes a new party would be good.
They should form a new political party.
However it will be a protest movement and not a party that will appeal to the whole electorate
@@Tom_murray89it'll appeal to those of us who've been disenfranchised by Starmers Fake Labour
Yes if they want to and if they can’t follow party rules and want to behave like anarchists it’s best they go.
Commies galore. And they should call it exactly what they would intend to be CPGB.
We all need to get our lives back.
It will take more than half a dozen new parties to fix English politics. The entire political system in England is centuries past its sell by date. We need a complete overhaul of our politics, left, right and centre, to develop a parliamentary system fit for the 21st century and beyond, not the 16th century "traditions" that currently make our national parliament nothing more than an anachronistic zoo.
What do you suggest O wise one ?
The U.K. system is actually quite good in that it allows representation of small populations.
The media is our biggest threat to democracy. Everyone knows both sides of the media lie. If the media was truthful and non partisan, with news being separated from opinion, people would vote with factual information, rather than how the media makes them feel.
Proportional representation and coalition governments.
The two party system keeps extremes in check to a degree.
And how do you get to that outcome?
None of these mps are far left or extreme. They voted to help kids out of poverty
They campaigned on a platform of fiscal responsibility. It would be awesome if we could give everyone in the world an Apple Macbook pro, but we need to make sure the country can afford what it's handing out.
@@Bobbydyland ‘country before party’ was their slogan. The suspensions scream that Starmer puts party first. The vote wasn’t about giving everyone a MacBook Pro.
They voted for an snp amendment on the kings speech. Labour have already said they would review and scrap the two child cap when it was fully funded
I hear your point. But do you try to remove 3+ child families from poverty or do you try to remove everyone from poverty?
@@onenote6619 If couples cannot afford more than two children, they should not have them and certainly shouldn’t expect the working man and woman to pay their tax to keep the children. They should be individually fiscally responsible and should not be rewarded for being fiscally irresponsible. If they can afford to raise ten children using their own resources, go for it. I strongly object to paying tax to keep them. Large families were normal a century ago and earlier but they were not kept by the taxpayers of the time.
They knew the conditions set down by Starmer. If they can't wait until autumn so that numbers can be crunched and universal credit be assessed it shows they're petulant trouble makers jumping the gun. They're pathetic. Go form your own party.
Agreed, well said.
Yup.
That's "Gideon" Osborne. His name is Gideon. Not George. He was called George to play down his posh boy credentials. Black hole in the finances they say... doubt we will be able to afford 3 billion per year to Ukraine. Just totally unaffordable. Oh dear, what a shame.
I’d love another party like that. I voted independent in my constituency for a candidate who had previously run for Labour but has been kicked out. I reckon if Jeremy Corbyn and the 7 made a new party, she would probably join it and may have a better chance in the next election.
Join the Greens.
That didn't take long 😂😂😂.
I thought that the very large majority would bring in some headbangers.
They were already there. None of these are new MPs.
They wanted to end the 2 child benefit cap. Hardly headbangers
@@stevenlannister184they voted against the manifesto they presented to the electorate and were warned not to. They were asking to be kicked out imo
@@andymcdonald8922They voted for country rather than party just as Kier said his party would.
@@PlatformNo14You don't understand how the party works.
There is already a party of the left the Green party is left of the current Labour party.
I’m going to shock you but there can be more than one party left of labour 🤯
Some in the tory party are more left than the labour party.admittedly not many. Pele unfortunately have no place in the labour party who only seem to be interested in chasing the right wing vote.
@@nomoreheroes93 Let's see. From right to left we have Reform, the DUP, the tories, the SNP, the Lib Dems, Labour and the Greens. Who have I missed?
@@michaelgoode9555 Well you missed Sinn Féin, the SDLP, Alliance, the Ulster Unionist Party and *ugh* the TUV...
Sunak was left compared to Starmer 😂😂😂
Long Bailey, Burgon, McDonell? These guys can do one. These amateurs were responsible for tories winning in 2017 and 2019 and what has happened to the UK since.
They got more votes than Kid Starver.
Totally agree
@@kathrynboniface3455. Yes yes yes…..why the f..k do I have a blue passport then ?
Just tell me why Corbyn imposed a 3 line whip to support a minority Tory government get Article 50 through parliament….and he didn’t even know what the Tories were planning !!.,
@@kathrynboniface3455 Maybe, and maybe they won the argument.. but they lost.. twice - handing power to the tory nutjobs.. lets not do it again
@kathrynboniface3455 Kid Starver? Are you one of these Corbynites who hate the taxpaying public but who'd love to dole out their taxes on pet-projects?
The first thing they have to do is to resign their seats and seek re-election. They were voted in just 3 weeks ago on the Labour manifesto, so if they choose to remain outside the Labour party they need to seek the agreement of their constituents.
They probably thought they were in the labour party and not in a dictatorship.
@JohnPark-xf2gq welcome to the real world.
@@JohnPark-xf2gq They took the money from Labour Party HQ. Only 1 or 2 (McDonnell) might have had enough name recognition to win as an independent.
The Labour Right are treacherous unprincipled authoritarians. Decent Left MPs should not disadvantage themselves by resigning as MPs
😱 shock horror, democracy in practice! We can’t have that 🤦
This is why it was important that Starmer won a majority as large as he did - so he could face down the far left leftovers in his party with impunity. These folks can threaten all they like - they will get nowhere except in their own little echo chambers which are irrelevant from a governmental point of view.
Corbyn's Labour got 40% of a much higher turnout in 2017 and a lot more votes than Starmer's Labour did this year, and that was with a supportive media, Starmer may be PM but he's a puppet for those wielding the real power.
Nick what you are saying sounds like a dictatorship which is not a healthy place for the country irrespective of who is the dictator.
Thus spake Tory boy...
@@tybulustyburn5580 voted Labour in 2019 and 2024, so hardly. You are obviously the kind of Labour supporter who really enjoys virtue signalling - and being out of power.
Voting to scrap a policy which pushes children into poverty is hardly far left…
They can call themselves The People’s Front of Gaza, or the Gazan People’s Front?
This is why Labour have held power for about 10 minutes in the last 110 years and the Tories the rest. Some Labour MPs would rather be in opposition and keep their precious principles. They play politics with people's lives, instead of sticking together to ensure the country is not subjected to callous cruelty. That's something you won't find the Tories doing.
Without a doubt, some commentators on TH-cam seem to hate Starmer more than the Tories. Despite 14 years of corruption, cruelty and austerity, they plot to attack a Labour government within days of coming into office
The callous cruelty of Thatcherism is safe in the hands of the red Tories. Read Rawls about the kind of society we need or Faiza Shaheen's excellent Know Your Place about the structural injustices that prevent a fair society that works for all. Then you might begin to understand how the left has the answers and think in future before posting such an ignorant comment.
@@ianworley8169 The Tories targeted the terminally online echo chambers, look where it got them. Let them start their own party based on internalised jargon and conformity, and see how well they do.
@@eightiesmusic1984 < like this one, exactly what I'm talking about.
@@eightiesmusic1984 Rude and unnecessary ending there. Not everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant. And in fact, I'm probably more left wing than you will ever be. I was at Orgreave and even further back at Wapping. But most people aren't politically active and we have to work within that in an imperfect democracy. I know all about left leaning writers like Polly Toynbee and older ones like Michael Foot. They all have one thing in common. They did not stop or even slow Conservative rule. We have to take everyone in this Labour government with us. If not, it's a massive lurch to the Right. You have a choice. You can read your books and intellectualise politics into oblivion, or you can contribute. Start by joining me at my local food bank.
So happy to take the funding, support of party volunteers and campaign for the manifesto at the recent GE, only to renege when they resume their seats in the HoC? 🤔
Jeremy Corbyn has been doing it for 40+ years
He was only in the Labour Party for his nice comfortable salary whilst he went off and enjoyed playing at his hobby: ideology and protesting
Yeah, none of them would have won without the Labour Party apparatus (money, canvassers, leaflets, etc.)
@RobinHarris-nf4yv you realise JC won as an independent, right? The could do this due to his local personal popularity as a dedicated hard working local MP.
Good get them out of labour, no place for them there, extreme left, and like the extreme right only in it for themselves, never thinking of the big picture or others.
This is the dumbest part of the row: Labour has suspended seven rebel MPs for voting for an amendment that aligns with Labour policy.
There's a lot of nuance to this situation, but the result is that Labour is now having a row about a policy on which they all seem to agree. It looks like government politics hasn't stopped being utterly crazy after all.
It's a cap on universal credit, not child benefit; this will go, but only when it is affordable, e.g., in the budget and costed, you can't have it both ways, can't demand to have a responsible party and then demand irresponsible actions.
This was just a case of idiot MP's forcing a pointless situation. Even the Tories did not have this level of in-house stupidity. That being said these are corbynists, so not fully unexpected.
- a good and balanced run down here, th-cam.com/video/Xx2Od_B8T24/w-d-xo.html
Exactly. It was all procedural. Not a difference in policy. But the previous Labor leader just likes to hold grudges. He and his minions really should have just faded into the Sunset. Or maybe work together with the new Labor leader. But no. Have to grandstand.
That's exactly why they need to go.
The amendment was politiking by the SNP. They designed the amendment to disrupt and frustrate Labour. They know, as do these rebels, that Labour will, in due course, get to sorting this out.
Labour have entered government with a clear plan and they're trying to execute that plan.
It wouldn't have done anything anyway what a pointless piece of posturing gesture politics
Well said 👏🏼
I don’t know enough about the issue to know how I feel about it. But a six month suspension for voting against the government once on a relatively minor issue doesn’t make sense. At least have a 3 strikes and your out rule.
Lots of people want something they can't afford and I don't think the new government can find that none existent magic money tree.
All money is created from thin air. Money is not a scare resource for government as it issues it. The limit is just the availability of real resources to spend it on.
Excluding Diane Abbott, who was apparently unable to vote...
Can anyone cite anything the 7 martyrs have achieved as MPs, other than spouting off through a megaphone.
Call it the New SDLP!
I think they should form a new party, but only with an agreement with other left wing parties and independents to only have one progressive standing per seat.
I see a lot of comments supporting the Labour stance that forgets that scrapping the two child limit would lift a lot of families out of child poverty.
They didn't forget. They support child poverty.
Given the authoritarian shift of Starmer's Labour and its centralisation of candidate selection , these MPs have a low chance of being Labour candidates next time. Their best chance is to be independent now, and spend the next 4 years building their profile and campaign locally. Or join the Greens and boost its profile, membership and finances. Millions of Left voters would follow.
Beware the enemy within - The language in Starmer's camp when Corbyn and Abbott got elected must have been quite choice. Momentum never went away, and now they have a focus.
Yet another reason why we need electoral reform in the shape of PR. If they want to continue as "independents" or form another party by law they should be made to face a by-election, most people vote for a party label.
We do not need PR because as has been shown all over the world it leads to minority parties having much more power than their vote share warrants. Perfect example Israel where four far right MP's are forcing the war to continue by threatening to bring down the government if they don't get their way. PR leads to weak government very often controlled by minor parties.
Most people don’t get represented. 80% of the electorate did not vote for Labour.
@@kathrynboniface3455 well under 50% of the electorate didn't vote for Brexit so why did we get that? If you don't vote then you have no say or rather your say was I don't care one way or the other so yes they do get represented because they chose not to vote.
@@kathrynboniface3455 Exactly! ReformUK got 4.1 million votes but just 5 MPs, the LibDems got 3.8 million yet 72 MPs! THAT IS NOT DEMOCRACY!
@@kathrynboniface3455 Ah, back to that tired old irrelevance. 66% of the electorate didn't vote for brexit ...
Good idea, they'll have more seats than Reform UK Ltd
They need to be very wary if they form another party; four very senior Labour MP's Jenkins, Owen, Rodgers and Williams left Labour in the 1980's and formed a new party and failed and they were all much more senior MP's than the seven who have rebelled. Gaza will ultimately be settled and those Independents, unless they do a brilliant job, will be voted out at the next election.
Labour was a different party in them days today labour don't comand anywhere near the support they had in them days yes a new party would be good.
How exactly do you think Gaza will be settled? It hasn’t been settled in over 70 years. Starmer has supported war crimes and unless politicians acknowledge the genocide and the authority of the international criminal court, there are an abundance of voters who will see this as a deal breaker. For other voters it proves that Labour learned nothing from Iraq.
Just to point out, Gaza hasnt been settled for 70 years.
@@glostergloster6945 it has in the sense of no all out war.
If these rebel MPs don't want to support the Labour party policies on which they were elected, then they should leave. They should also then stand for re-election as independents and see if their constituents support them or the Labour party.
What ever happened to remaining and trying to change policy within the party.starmer was elected leader on a whole load of promises and then threw them all out as soon as he was elected.seems he learnt a lesson from boris.lie to your back teeth to get elected.this may be effective but just demonstrates how far down into the sewers politics have gone.the tories were reelected despite turning our rivers into sewers.we will reap what we have sown.
Equally... all these Zionist MP's aren't true Labour MP's... Labour was never created to support war crimes and genocide...
Kier Starmer said he Wasn't a Zionist, to become leader,... and made bogus socialist pledges... then said he Was a Zionist, without qualification...
If Kier Starmer was truthful, he would never even be leader...
Fascist tendancies are coming to the front !
It doesn't matter! Yesterday's people.
The weakness of Patrick Maquire's narrative is that he isn't speaking about matters from the point of view of: these seven suspended Labour MPs, Jeremy Corbyn, or that part of the electorate looking to this eight and others for political representation. This is demonstrated by the terms he uses to refer to this grouping: "Corbynites", "disruptors", "radical left" (and "Gaza MPs"); where he's looking at and understanding the members of this grouping, from a viewpoint other than their own. The fact Patrick then effectively ignores, is the threat of silencing some points of view, this amounting to a disenfranchising of a significant constituency in the electorate and our society. The thinking this eight and others have to do, is not "marketing" as Patrick has it, but rather strategic regards how best to ward of this threat of effective silencing. History telling us loudly, as does current global politics, the dreadful consequences where authoritarian tendencies and regimes succeed in such silencing. Patrick might, had he acknowledged this matter of silencing (and its concomitant authoritarianism), have had something more to say about why this matter of "independents" has arisen and become significant.
Those 6 Labour MP's who have been suspended, will never be trusted by Kier Starmer and 'his moderate front bench mp's', I think that the Labour party may split again like the SdP early 1980's did ...
well, they can take their 6 MPs and become a backwater wash-out party like "Change UK" did with the brexit vote. Go for it!
its completely irresponsible to ever pronise no new taxes
They couldnt have won on tax rises
They should go they obviously just want to be politicians of protest and not in government,we need grown up politicians who have to live in the real world.
If they dont agree with labour policey then move to form your own party and give up as a labour mp and have a by election as a new party.
Great the more the better for the people the parties forget the people. All they do is look after them and there's.
It’s always the same usual suspects , and they should start their own party if they don’t agree with the front bench . Snag is they all like the gravy train !
the left vote is already split 3 or 4 ways. In our broken political system, even if they don't like it, it's in their best interest to stick to the big party that sort-of or sometimes represents their views. That's better than giving up an election in spite to a smaller portion of the vote that's a plurality, but is much less representative of their views. That's just how it goes in first past the post; barely anybody gets what they want, and it makes people look like they support things that they don't support.
They wouldn’t be mp if they weren’t in the Labour Party.
Independent Labour Party
Better all round if the suspended MPs form a new alliance or even join whatever Leftie party they want and let Labour provide a decade of progress, modest at first, but perhaps more ambitious in future. These grifters can take their salaries and allowances and carry on for a bit and even longer, their electorate stomachs their BS. I know this from having supported 'the Left' eg Corbyn in the past. although carrying a bag of doubt. Enough is enough!
Daily hate mail reader have you checked what you are supposed to be thinking today.they do say you get more right wing as you get older.
Fantastic news for Labour getting rid of garbage like McDonnell and Sultana.
These far left mp's want to join another far far far left party
So, is that cos they're really annoyed at being shoved out - or could it be that they really want to achieve great things for this country?
How is voting for unicorns doing good things? It's a party. MPs must act accordingly.
Please carry on and I hope you get more support. The other parties are just waiting for things to kick off and then the country can see what a rabble the Labour Party really is.
Good go ahead
Another client journalist of Kia Starmer - well what a surprise given Labour's action on Leveson. We should not expect any forensic analysis here!!
I bet you said before the election that Starmer was doing it wrong, and it would be better to let the Tories win.
@patrikfloding7985 As I am taking my leave I cared not who wins. I dearly love this country but detest the self important media who think anything they write will be read for eternity and have some authority to say who will be the better. As a friend who is an antiquarian bookseller says best sellers are the cheapest in the second hand market.
Take care and maybe see you in five years.
If couples cannot afford more than two children, they should not have them and certainly shouldn’t expect the working man and woman to pay their tax to keep the children. They should be individually fiscally responsible and should not be rewarded for being fiscally irresponsible. If they can afford to raise ten children using their own resources, go for it. I strongly object to paying tax to keep them. Large families were normal a century ago and earlier but they were not kept by the taxpayers of the time.
Do you support immigration then. If most people cannot afford to have children and they shouldn’t be subsidised then we need to make up the population shortfall.
Imagine working cancer out but the world would rather be the cause?
Something new that led to the worst defeat
Bye Felicia.
Seems exactly what Herr Starmer wants
So, in theory, if 150 MPs defected from Labour to form a 'I can't believe it's not Labour' party, would that make them the opposition party, as they would have more seats than the Conservative? How would this affect parliamentary time allocations?
Great point and a great name 😂.
This is democracy in action.
The continuity Corbynistas should be encouraged. 🤗
Another load of gravy train anchors
Yeah, you'd think this particular group of people should have a word with Chukka Ummuna and his breakaway party. Didn't really work out well for them.
Totally different politics, Chukka et alwere centrist
Oh yeah! I’d forgotten about him. The coming man. The Golden Boy. Vanished without trace.
@@haaaaaay Actually, he was part od "Blue Labour" which wanted more conservative (small-C) in the Labour Party.
Regardless, Ummuna left Labour because of Corbyn, failed to win any seats and sidled off to work for JP Morgan.
Wears all the money going we pay in
Why does Rachel Reeves’ accent matter??
The unions aren’t going to split with Labour. Their political influence comes from being embedded into the foundations of the Labour Party, and the fact that Labour are sometimes in government.
Several already have. And they have wealth and influence that could support another party.
Murdock’s Times Radio just mischief making doing their masters bidding. As for the Trades Unions….this Labour Government are about to repeal the Laws passed by the Tories !!! The leadership of these Unions will be getting their P45’s if they de affiliate from Labour.
@@Bingosaurus Didn't some of them throw their weight behind TUSC...?? How did that go...??
Why can still find billions for Ukraine whenever they feel like it, but not for starving children?
Why not do both.tax the billionaires.
I hear the name "Change UK" is free!
“Corbynites”. Still using him as the boogeyman, I see.
Do you have a blue passport ? You can thank Corbyn for that.
There's only one antidote to Corbynite........Blairite! Education, education, education......she was the people's princess.
I'll prepare the dossier...
Wish I could live rent-free
This majority is about to end
The far left and far right will always amount to fringe protest groups.
"Far left"😂 Don't be so ridiculous.
Donald Trump was the president of the United States for four years, you absolute muppet
Corbyn's policies were compared with those of Angela Merkel by, amongst others, Andrew Marr taking the p*ss out of John McDonnell calling himself a 'socialist'. It's the Overton window that's shifted. We just stood still. Now the country is up Faeces Creek and we're just standing there, nodding, and saying 'Er... yeah' while the so-called 'normal' people try to work out what's gone wrong.
Fringe protest groups.are they groups of people against weird
@@douglasmacari8707 I agree - imo it should be called the proper left - the left that existed (and co-existed with the right of the party) in the 1940's 50's and 60 's, and whose contribution leavens the debate, and insures it's not just a tory-lite miasma of an organisation. Those of us who predicted Starmer would be a mini-Stalin are already being shown to have had a point.- and there's still potentially 4 years and 11 .5 months ( at least) of this government to go.
With as much respect as I can muster, @jaybee4288 I think you might need to study, or re-study, some history and think about what you are saying; what you predict is such an obvious potential hostage to fortune I think you should re-consider it ( in case it's not obvious to you, that's a nice way of saying that what you wrote is ridiculous).
Off they go then. The ERG of the Left. I hope they don’t let the door hit on their behinds. Them and those with the begging bowls out. Starmer has their number. It’s a shock to the client media that a party leader can actually do politics. They haven’t worked out how to handle him.
Didn't they read the script before 04/07/24?
They are supposed to represent their constituents.
They have started 👍👍👍...
Just declare real party Communist ????
Well at least they won’t spoil a couple
Except your own guests stated than many voted for Corbyn not knowing he was not in Labour any longer.
"Lefties" ...
Voters should have more of a choice. If they want to vote hard left they should be able to, although I probably wouldn't support anything to do with the useless Corbyn. But it needs proper PR voting (not AV) to sustain choice and fair votes.
They voted to get children out of poverty and the Times headbangers think that makes them equivalent to the far right Reform nutters? Great journalism boys. Another roaring success for the Oxbridge lot
No, they voted to reward irresponsible parents who cannot provide for more than 2 children. Want more kids, provide for them your self.
That's a very selfish way of thinking about the world. I guess we should stop all government assistance then... to small companies, to private schools, to churches, to heritage buildings...
@@BeeHereNowuk Children deserve a safe and fulfilling childhood. If parents can’t provide that then don’t have them.
@@tombarry2523 You seem to be saying that children deserve a safe and fulfilling childhood unless their parents don't meet your standards, in which case let them go hungry
@@jumbo4billion If children are going hungry because the parents had more than two kids, then social welfare needs to step in and help until they get back on track. That does not mean the two child benefits cap needs to be removed for everybody unless the government is trying to increase the birth rate. For me, having kids is a huge responsibility. Don’t have more if you can’t provide for them.
Didnt realise Wrong-Daily was back in Parliament
Me neither. She is thick as two short planks.
Let them and call by elections in there constituency
Well it’s called a Democracy so that’s fine 😊 anyway we need checks and balances it’s unhealthy for democracy for their to be no effective opposition. Or for millions of people to feel disenfranchised
I think that independents of the left should all form their own socialist party
There going nowhere
That's right Times Radio, report on just over half a dozen disgruntled Labour MP's and build it into the downfall of the new government, pathetic considering the Tories are genuinely tearing themselves apart.
Go for it. They will never gain power.
Bye!
Don't threaten me with a good time.
Good. Have them start their own party/
Corbyn, there is a vote winner
Good please start there own party …. the other 404 or 98.4% of labour mp s will be delighted there gone
Those with Iong memories wiII recaII the SociaI Democratic Party founded in 1981 by BiII Rogers, ShirIey WiIIiams, Roy Jenkins and David Owen, a break away from the Iabour Party and they were poIiticians of considerabIy more stature than Corbyn and Co. AIthough at first the SDP attracted considerabIe attention, this soon subsided and they were absorbed by the IiberaI Party..I doubt a new breakaway Party wiII fare much better.
Another Brexit party on the way
Good luck to them. (Sarcasm)
The corbynites I feel couldn’t do a change uk type party because they don’t seem to have a leader within their ranks
Fancy a future guess? John McD will return, Rebecca Long-Bailey will not. John McD, although branded by you as a Corbynite, actually drifted away (and pretty rapidly towards the end) from Corbyn at the end, when it was clear that JC time was up. Just my opinion. I don't think John McD would get voted in, as an independent, so for him it will be: Labour or bust. Just my two-pence worth. Would have been interesting to see what the likes of Dennis Skinner would have done - someone who most certainly would not back down. Starmer will need to be careful, 5 ish MPs could be vital in a next election.
I’m not a Corbyn supporter, his way of doing politics is ideology above strategy, hence why he kept losing.
But I do like John McDonnell, He comes across as very sensible in interviews and not cult like.
Rebecca Long Bailey is a female Corbyn, a protestor not an achiever
@RobinHarris-nf4yv I think your summary of Long-Bailey and John McD is a perfect example of why I think one will leave, and the other will return. As you say, Long-Bailey is 'more Corbyn' so I think may fancy her chances as an independent (and would win, in my opinion). John McD...... in my opinion.... would be more likely to 'tow the party line'. Which seems in agreement with your interpretation. I'm not agreeing with any, or either, but this benefit cap has surely been enlightening for those on the left, right and centre. The 'do anything for their communities' Burnham, Cooper, et al., were not suspended, therefore all voted in favour of keeping the benefit two child cap.
@@drgjenkins4361 nobody voted in favour of keeping the two child cap.
They voted for the Kings speech and not for an SNP amendment which was purely bait to stir up trouble.
Shut up and go away ! Corbin had his chance
The Silly Times.
Under 10 MPs is not going to be disruptive.
What, all seven of them?
Magnificent seven.
Not such a bad idea. We need a proper left wing party and a proper right wing party. Labour, the Tories and Lib Dems could amalgamate as a centrist dad party. They are barely distinguishable now anyway.
@@VaucluseVanguard No-one who is serious about politics or understands it uses the phrase 'centrist dad'.
Oh Labour could never merge with the Lib Dems Could you honestly imagine the PM skydiving with Big Ed D to discuss the balance of payments crisis?
Nice one keep up the left wing push lads 😊
Success! What have they achieved? Right it down on a post it note and share it...
So this is what Unity looks like. Same as always. Just vote us in then we will fight among ourselves for the next five years.
To give their position real credibility they could donate their MP's salaries for 6 months to poverty charities.
They're still sitting as MPs and doing the work of an MP. I'm not sure why they need to forgo their salary to meaningfully oppose child poverty. You wouldn't ask an MP who wants to fund Ukraine to go without pay to legitimise their position.
@@callumlawson9735 But if they were, REALLY, REALLY in conscience SO troubled by the policy a REALLY MEANINGFUL thing would be to forgo their salaries, and show, in solidarity they are willing to make sacrifices otherwise , it's just gesturing.
@@russellbaston974 You wouldn't apply that standard to any other policy.
Want to fix potholes? Why don't you pay for them?
Want to fund trident? Get your wallet out.
It's just a strange double standard; also I'm sure several of them already give generously to charities dealing with poverty in the UK.
@@callumlawson9735 No double standards at all. They stood as, and were elected as Labour MP’s. The Government’s policies were set out in the King’s Speech, perhaps an arcane institution but to vote directly against is, by definition a vote of ‘ no confidence’ in their own Party/Government.
They could resign and stand as independents.
they didn't vote directly against it that's a falsehood they voted for an amendment which in no way undermined the labour manifesto
Even with FPTP, Starmers majority is not secure. Many seats were on a knife edge, and his voter share is abysmal. In addition to that, the Greens saw a massive increase in voter share, and they only won so many seats in Scotland because people wanted to give the SNP a kicking. A stalinist approach to the whip is just rather silly, and proves that Starmer is much closer to Cameron and Johnson than he is to Blair.
Look at the 97 numbers compared to 2024 - anyone who thinks that Labour are secure at the next election are at best delusional.