I don't know why people disliked this video..it's great coaching..I made my opponent cry today by attacking his backspin serve which I learnt here..thank you
Finally, a video lesson aimed toward beginners like me who are trying to learn the basics of the game, the most straightforward and understandable approach I've found on TH-cam so far. Thank you Tom!! I think what many of these snobbish commenters are forgetting is that it is a teacher's duty not to overwhelm the student with too much information, in other words, it's important to only show so much to a student at a time... Something tells me that Tom would look very different if he were competing than he does here.
Noah Hocker, I second that. The response times r so low in this game, I find it hard to remember it all while playing, short lessons like these helps me progress 1 step at a time and keeps me interested in the game.
yo dude, no offense, but go check "emratthich table tennis coach". this video is really shallow in terms of technique... just give it a try, might be harder to understand but you aim for a better and stronger technique and thus a better gameplay
I don't think 'shallow' is quite the right word here. This video is really aimed at beginners and improvers, so I keep the technique quite basic on purpose. Emratthich likes to show advanced Chinese technique in his videos. Personally, I don't think it is wise to teach beginner players advanced Chinese technique. I think you should keep things simple to begin with and then when you can do basic technique consistently, you can then progress to more advanced technique.
Tom Lodziak 100% agree Tom! I have only been playing for a few months and I really appreciate your ‘basic’ tutorials. I am a ‘retired’ top level badminton player, but I got so disheartened and nearly gave up due to the complexity of this ‘new’ game for me. Your tutorials are just what l need to improve and so progress at this great game! Thanks! 👍
Forget the "haters" - everyone gets them in every discipline of all sports coaching videos! Your videos and demonstrations are absolutely fantastic for me being a 41 year old man who hasn't played since Youth club (over 25 years ago)! Keep them coming Tom - they really help me as a novice!
Thanks Dan. I appreciate the positive comments. I don’t mind challenging comments, as long as they are constructive. But always nice to hear from people who find my videos useful!
So ive been watching almost all your videos, and some of them more than once over the past 5 months. I never even told you how amazing you are.. Thank you so much for your content, your approach is really awesome and your content is truly educational.
Thanks for the video, coach. One technique I use to develop a brushing motion is the empty water bottle practice. You place a ball on top of an empty water bottle and try to brush the ball off into the other side of the table without disturbing the bottle.
Came to table tennis aged 64. I have built my whole game around Tom’s videos and was recently voted most improved player by my peers. So Tom I like you videos and I like your style. Keep them coming.
yes.. I was directed to return the backspin ball with forehand topspin.. by hitting from the bottom up right at the side point slightly down..at first it was difficult.. when playing with opponents I often forget and the ball goes down to the net, thanks for the direction coach.. I will continue to try by following your directions through this video..
Thanks so much Tom. Going to go and try this out now. Lost 3 matches against a backspin server and constant backspin shots.... hope he's ready next time!!!
Thanks for the video Tom, I appreciate the chance to show beginners how to learn a stroke. I am always looking for new drills and ways to teach a novice class.
Hi Tom, thank you for your precise and detailed videos. I learned a lot just by making a small adjustments. Your videos, combined with my coaching, made an obvious "dent" in my play. However.....have you thought of making a footwork (compilation) drills video which, I think, most of us are lacking off? Thanks in advance.
2:08, you're not countering back spin, you're adding more spin to the way the ball is already spinning (your opponent's backspin is top spin from your perspective).
*the* most important tip with this stroke, is to wait for the ball to just start falling down. This stroke is impossible against a decent backspin (not the gentle push in the vid) if you do it when the ball is still rising. This has to do with the contact time on the paddle (longer on tangential strokes)
Timing is important. And certainly some players like to take the ball as it is dropping. But you can still topspin when the ball is loaded with backspin and on the rise.
ive been teaching this stroke alot, i assure you it's infinitely easier when the ball is falling down. it may be possible for good players to do it on the rise with a good rubber against little spin. But beginners/intermediate (and some good players too) players trying this will only get frustrated not understanding why they fail if you dont teach them to hit on the beginning of the fall. Just try to teach a lower level amateur this stroke, you'll understand. The player will get frustrated and a sore shoulder if you feed them something a bit more spinny.
I teach this shot a lot too, and I assure you it is fairly easy to topspin a heavy backspin ball when it is on the rise (even to beginner / intermediates). Just a question of timing and using plenty of racket speed in an upward motion. Fairly simple really. But different coaches teach in different ways. So if your method works for you - then keep doing this.
I teach the stroke just as Tom does. I don't think that waiting for the ball to fall down is a good idea, because you have to calculate when it will happen (what is not easy at all because you can't see its trajectory from the side), many times it will force you to go far from the table (not a good idea to get a good attack), many times you will get late to the stroke (specially if you have to cope with a quick long push), it will force you to continously move back and forth and many times it will force you to hit the ball below or at table height. Too many problems which can be solved with a proper technique hitting close to the table.
@@RobertoCostas of course it's difficult, but it's necessary, otherwise you wont be able to attack on decent backspin, but merely gentle pushes like shown at 1:30 or 8:00 .
Hi Tom, thank you, can you please suggest me the technique if the serve with heavy back spin is towards your back hand.Because when im trying to push with back hand , ball is popping up...
Hi, if you are pushing and the ball is popping up, it probably isn't heavy backspin. It's more likely to be light backspin or float. You could either do a backhand topspin or if you push you need to close bat angle more.
Hi, you can use the technique I show in the video to attack heavy backspin balls too. You will need to use your legs more and accelerate upwards more to lift the backspin. Here's a match of Timo Boll vs Joo Sae-hyuk, where he has to attack a lot of heavy chops: th-cam.com/video/gatqZi2bm7E/w-d-xo.html
The description he gives is starting from just below the table level. When he plays the shot it's from nearer his ankle. Looping a ball with opponent's backspin is not countering the spin, it is going with the spin. Top spin does not lift the ball, it is the speed of the racket and the angle of impact that affect the lift. Top spin arcs the ball towards the table.
Hello coach, great video for beginners, it seems, as ive seen those training methods in some advice for teaching top spin to young, new players. Ive watched many games lately and found out that many top players lift up their left leg when topspinning against strong back spin. Seen ma long do it against ruwen fillus or ma te. Seen paul gauzy do it, too, and several female players, too. Why do you think lifting the left leg (for a right handed player) would help top spin against back spin ? I also found out that a super relaxed arm really helps nullify the spin (be it top spin or back spin) from the opponent ball. What is your opinion on this, too?
Definitely need to keep the arm relaxed. This is very important. If arm is too tense, you the stroke will become slower and it will be harder to lift the backspin. With the left leg coming up - I have never really noticed this. But I will look out for it now. I don't have an answer for that right now, but you have given me something to think about!
@@TomLodziak ma long vs ma te, look at a few of the very first top spins from ma long. Lifting left leg noticably. th-cam.com/video/eH4VwnQAsDc/w-d-xo.html
@@TomLodziak i think i may have understood the need for lifting the left leg against strong backspin. Power comes from the right leg, meaning the right foot should stick to the ground. But power also come from rotating the waist. If the right foot cannot move (stuck to the ground), the power transfer kinda requires the left foot to be light on the ground, or even requires the player to lift the left leg a bit, so that the waist can actually rotate. What do you think of that idea ? Are you ok with that ?
Also, if you dont move the left leg, your body rotation will be stopped abruptly, hence risking back ache. This is less likely to happen if the left leg is « free », i think.
In my own game, I would like to improve againt a heavy chop, do you change anything from your video ? You get a ball sitting up with heavy chop and it just looks like it needs to be put away but unless you lift it with heavy topspin then you dump it into the net. Any thoughts..
If it is heavy backspin, you need to do everything I show in this video, but more so. You need to get your bat lower, and spin up more, with even more racket speed. You really need to commit to the shot, otherwise the ball ends up in the net.
Thanks Tom. I played last night against long pips and anti-spin, that was bizarre, up is down and down is up. Any suggestions for how to be more successful ?
Ha! Yes, it can be a horrible experience. At some point I'll create a video about this. In the meantime, take a look at this article I wrote for playing against long pimples...www.tabletenniscoach.me.uk/tactics-for-beating-a-long-pimples-player/
Hi, to begin with try to brush the back / back-top of the ball. You should try and contact towards the top of your rubber. This will allow maximum brush contact with the ball.
You could push or flick short backspin serves. It depends how much backspin is on the serve. If it's a really heavy short backspin serve, it may be safer to push. But if it's a light backspin serve, then you have a chance to do a strong flick.
Take a look at this article about rackets / rubbers for intermediate players. Lots of good advice and recommendations: www.tabletenniscoach.me.uk/best-table-tennis-bats-for-intermediate-players/
Tom Lodziak hi Tom, I was reading your article and I still couldn’t decide what I should buy. I am only 15 years old so the price has to be around 50AUD as I do live in Australia. I am an offensive player. Can you please tell me any suggestions? Cheers buddy
Hmm, this is tough. You can do shadow practice, practice spinning the ball with your bat and you can watch and analyse table tennis matches on TH-cam. But all this will only take you so far. There really is no substitute for actually getting on the table and hitting lots and lots of balls.
By the way. You propose top spin as a return for a sidespin serve. Now you show a top spin against a backspin ball. Am I right to think that with a top spin one could return a sidespin serve AND a backspin serve AND a backspin serve with a sidespin. (Of course with different technique in both cases). And it is easy to return a topspin serve with a topspin. MY CONCLUSION. One can return ANY serve with a topspin (of course taking into account if it is a backspin or topspin to apply a correct technique) withount any worry about sidespin of a serve. And of course I mean the balls coming OFF the table.
Yes absolutely. You could return any serve with topspin, although very short heavy backspin serves are a little trickier. It actually makes returning serves a little easier in my opinion. It reduces some of the decision making. You just topspin everything! I'm actually making a video on exactly this topic.
Thank you! It is a very good news. Because "reading a serve" - at my opinion - comes ONLY AFTER quite a lot of repetions of returnig a serve, of getting rid of a pressere etc... While in our case one just need to see if it is a backpin or not AND read how much spin it has. And one learns at the same time a topspin. What is useful in any case. And in any case one should "read" a spin of a coming ball. A serve or a short. And we are looking forward to a promised video. Thanks in advance.
Really, any type of decent inverted rubber will allow to spin the ball fairly easily. Here's a list of recommendations to get you started...www.tabletenniscoach.me.uk/best-table-tennis-rubbers-blades-advanced-players/
For short backspin balls, you need to play a flick shot. I'll record something on this soon. In the meantime, take a look at this video from PingSkills th-cam.com/video/heJZe0OTDnA/w-d-xo.html
It depends. If it is heavy backspin, your stroke should be more 'up', finishing by side of the head. If it is light backspin, the stroke should be a bit more 'forward', finishing more in front of your face.
Tom Lodziak I am a beginner and my coach taught me to finish my stroke at the side of my head. Should I always keep on doing it until I get the hang of it?
Yes, I think this is good advice from your coach to begin with. If you finish your stroke up by the side of your head, you should be able to brush the back of the ball consistently.
The problem is. AFTER your topspin your ball is perfect for a smash! The question is how REALLY to "ATTACK a backspin" instead of placing your ball for a perfect and easy attack? And the second question. You show how to hit a VERY high ball (well above the net). And nobody shows how to "attack" with a topspin a backspin which goes BELOW the level of the net. PS But in any case thanks for your videos. They are very good.
If you place the ball well and attack with speed, then it really is not so easy for your opponent to counter-attack. It doesn't matter if the backspin ball is low or higher, you can use the same technique to spin the ball up. If the ball is very heavy backspin and very low, you will need to get your entire body lower, start with your bat lower and really accelerate upwards to lift the backspin.
When I attack a ball WITHOUT BACKSPIN I can more or less predict the trajectory of a ball as a combination of my force, the angle of the bat and a spin of the coming ball. And I manage to hit very hard, close to the table. But the ball stays on the table. But when I give a spin as you show (practically vertically) then my force is VERY small. Otherwise the ball does not touch the table. I understand aerodynamic. But I do not see than my spin REALLY forces the ball to go down. My point is. I do not see how I can REALLY control the speed/force/impulse of the ball I send.
One of the key things is racket speed. If your bat moves up with little speed, then the attack will not be very good. The ball will be slow and short or may not make it over the net. But if you do the technique I show with a lot of speed, then you can attack backspin balls easily and very effectively.
Thanks fot your time. So the only way to complicate their " the life of your partner" is to give a maximum spin. What seems to me to be quite difficult while one must really BRUSH the ball without sending it up or forward. The coming ball should be quite slow. Or it is a question of excercise and reaction.
It can be very effective if you vary the amount of spin. Sometimes you could do slow and very spinny, other times, you could go faster, lower and a little flatter. If you can vary the spin of your attacks, it makes it harder for your opponent to adjust. And if you also vary the placement of your attacks, you should have a very strong attacking game.
Hmm...... shouldn't we always keep our hand higher than the knee, never have the elbow stright, knee down a little to push the body up ranther than just fully swing the the arm? When I swing my arm like you do my coach always tells me off. (beginner)
+Hin5525 Yes, you should use your legs as well as arm. You may not be able to see in the video, but I am bending down slightly and pushing up with my legs. With other things you mention - different coaches will tell you different things as there are different ways of playing and succeeding at table tennis. If what your coach tells you works for you, keep doing it. But if not, give my methods a go.
Hi, I will try and make some 'tactics' videos in the future. In the meantime, you can read my articles on tactics. Lots of useful information about how to play against different styles: www.tabletenniscoach.me.uk/category/tactics/
In this video, Zhang Jike takes his racket below his knee over and over. th-cam.com/video/wSyILHjT9Nc/w-d-xo.html There are many stills of this that show that. This is from when ZJK was world champion. Is his technique incorrect?
Yes, ZJK's technique is correct but doesn't mean it is suitable for a beginner. High-level players have a very good feel of touch, but beginners don't, so beginners should learn a form that can help develop the feeling and maintain good control rather than imitate top players. Similar idea to why beginners should use a slow and soft blade to start with, rather than giving them the top player's equipment.
Also, jaydev Ashra, how about posting a video, so we can see what you are talking about? You are a great critique, but are very slow to post some examples of your coaching....
While producing top spin, one should accelerate its bat to its maximum. On the other hand - I suppose - one can differentiate one’s top spin. And I do not understand how. How can I produce different heights of the arc above the net. How can I produce different HORIZONTAL speed of the ball. I mean which factors I “have the right” to change and which should remain untouched. For example, the maximum spin should be achieved in any case. It is untouched. But I can … I do not even know what. When you push somebody or something with your hand or fist you can easily influence the effect while changing a lot of factors. But in a case of top spin, the spin is a key factor, it is achieved only with explosion, maximum acceleration. How the SPEED of coming ball SHOULD influence my technique while brushing the ball.
Yes, you can vary your topspin a lot. I'll give a scenario - your opponent pushes the ball with medium amount of backspin. You could (a) play a slow and heavy topspin by taking the ball a little later and brushing upwards more or (b) play a fast, spinny topspin by taking the ball earlier and playing more forwards compared to option 'a' or (c) you could play a topspin-drive where your stroke is much more forwards and the shot is less spinny.
Thanks, yes, your examples are based mainly on the level of the SITUATION and possible derivatives from these SITUATIATIONS. My question was and is about the possibilities to PRODUCE A TOP SPIN, but with DIFFERENT force, speed and spin. Let’s suppose a ball come with a ‘medium” speed, without any spin, and it bounces just above the level of the net, and its peak is outside the edge of the table. That is, it is an easy, comfortable ball. Let’s suppose I play with skilled child or a charming female and I want First, to produce always with SUCH balls a top spin But, secondly, I want to change the arc, the speed, the force with each such ball. What I am “allowed” to variate with my TECHNIQUE and what should I always do, if I want each time produce a top spin, and not a drive with rotation, for example? Where does the top spin end? Without which movement of this or that part of the arm it is no more top spin. Is it possible to produce “authentic” top spin without accomplishing a CLASSIC movements For example, HOW I can while brushing a ball TO PRODUCE A SPIN influence the form of the arc at the same time. Or HOW I can while brushing a ball TO PRODUCE A SPIN influence the horizontal speed of my ball? How with the same BRUSH can I at the same time produce a spin I want AND a form of the arc I want, that is the question?
Ok,I think I understand your question. The thing you must always do is brush the ball with an upwards movement. Everything else you can vary if you want to. Small swing, big swing, high swing, low swing, slow wig, fast swing - these will all create topspin as long as you brush the ball. In theory, you could use completely unorthodox technique, but you will still create topspin as long as you brush the ball with an upwards movement.
If it is really heavy backspin and low, then you need to aim your topspin even higher, with fast racket speed. You also need to use your legs to help lift the ball. Get low and push up with your legs to help generate some upward momentum.
Tom: no offense intended (really), but you need to take some lessons. I've tried seeing many of your videos. In almost all of them, I see severe deficiency in technique. This is from an average club players' perspective (and not from a pro's).
+Goodkat No offence taken, although 'severe deficiency in technique' is a little bit over the top! Fully aware there are many things I need to improve in my own game. If you have any specific constructive feedback, please do share.
Take this video (for starters): (1) the biggest problem you have here is you're using your arm / forearm to power the shot (even though you do bend low and swivel the hip). This is evident in the tightness in your arm / shoulder, especially at the end of the stroke. You need to use your hips / legs to power the stroke and keep your arm / shoulder loose (with forefinger / thumb tightening onto blade face just before contact time). The main advantages are not in power alone (though it does generate a powerful stroke), but in (1a) control - using legs / hips for power and hand loose leaves hand free to do micro-adjustments to stroke which is very difficult otherwise, and (1b) recovery - using arm for power means worse recovery time. (2) you are also going up and not forwards. Against backspin, you need to contact ball at peak or just after and then go forwards (so that the ball does not sit up after bounce on the other side). There is more but going into more detail just confuses the main message. Hope this helps.
Fair point about tightness of arm and shoulder. Trying to play looser is something I'm working on. Regarding second point 'you are also going up and not forwards' - this is a deliberate and legitimate choice. I like the safety of spinning up when playing against backspin. And as long as I play the shot with good placement and speed, I'm not too bothered in the ball bounces up or not. If I execute the shot well, I should be in control of the rally. -
Hi blood bath - there is definitely some use of my legs and waist when I play this shot in the video, not just arm. Is there as much use of legs, waist and weight transfer as top Chinese players? Nowhere near! This is deliberate. This video is aimed at beginners / improvers. From my experience it is not helpful to teach beginners advanced Chinese technique - it is just too hard for them. It is best to start with a simpler technique and progress from there.
I understand that, but I agree that using the legs to propell the rest of the body upward and forward is quite essential. It's not advanced (like e.g. applying pressure with the fingers, or where exactly in the curve you hit the ball, or even using the wrist for extra spin)
I don't know why people disliked this video..it's great coaching..I made my opponent cry today by attacking his backspin serve which I learnt here..thank you
Finally, a video lesson aimed toward beginners like me who are trying to learn the basics of the game, the most straightforward and understandable approach I've found on TH-cam so far. Thank you Tom!! I think what many of these snobbish commenters are forgetting is that it is a teacher's duty not to overwhelm the student with too much information, in other words, it's important to only show so much to a student at a time... Something tells me that Tom would look very different if he were competing than he does here.
Thanks Noah. I appreciate the positive feedback! More videos coming soon.
Noah Hocker, I second that. The response times r so low in this game, I find it hard to remember it all while playing, short lessons like these helps me progress 1 step at a time and keeps me interested in the game.
yo dude, no offense, but go check "emratthich table tennis coach". this video is really shallow in terms of technique... just give it a try, might be harder to understand but you aim for a better and stronger technique and thus a better gameplay
I don't think 'shallow' is quite the right word here. This video is really aimed at beginners and improvers, so I keep the technique quite basic on purpose. Emratthich likes to show advanced Chinese technique in his videos. Personally, I don't think it is wise to teach beginner players advanced Chinese technique. I think you should keep things simple to begin with and then when you can do basic technique consistently, you can then progress to more advanced technique.
Tom Lodziak 100% agree Tom! I have only been playing for a few months and I really appreciate your ‘basic’ tutorials. I am a ‘retired’ top level badminton player, but I got so disheartened and nearly gave up due to the complexity of this ‘new’ game for me. Your tutorials are just what l need to improve and so progress at this great game! Thanks! 👍
Forget the "haters" - everyone gets them in every discipline of all sports coaching videos! Your videos and demonstrations are absolutely fantastic for me being a 41 year old man who hasn't played since Youth club (over 25 years ago)!
Keep them coming Tom - they really help me as a novice!
Thanks Dan. I appreciate the positive comments. I don’t mind challenging comments, as long as they are constructive. But always nice to hear from people who find my videos useful!
So ive been watching almost all your videos, and some of them more than once over the past 5 months. I never even told you how amazing you are.. Thank you so much for your content, your approach is really awesome and your content is truly educational.
Thanks for watching and the positive feedback! Hope the videos help in some small way.
Thanks for the video, coach. One technique I use to develop a brushing motion is the empty water bottle practice. You place a ball on top of an empty water bottle and try to brush the ball off into the other side of the table without disturbing the bottle.
Great idea! I might pinch this idea and use with the players I coach.
Came to table tennis aged 64. I have built my whole game around Tom’s videos and was recently voted most improved player by my peers. So Tom I like you videos and I like your style. Keep them coming.
Awesome! Great that you have improved so much.
I've been playing league tt for 40 years. This is good advice. It makes perfect sense.
Now is 2023, very useful video. Much appreciated.
yes.. I was directed to return the backspin ball with forehand topspin.. by hitting from the bottom up right at the side point slightly down..at first it was difficult.. when playing with opponents I often forget and the ball goes down to the net, thanks for the direction coach.. I will continue to try by following your directions through this video..
One of the best ping pong TH-cam channels. Hands down!
Thanks Tom for taking time n explaining it so clearly. Love your lessons
A really well explained video. Thank you very much. I shall be off to practice this asap. :-)
Thanks so much Tom. Going to go and try this out now. Lost 3 matches against a backspin server and constant backspin shots.... hope he's ready next time!!!
Perfectly explained. Loved the way you demonstrated to handle the backspin.
Thanks for the video Tom, I appreciate the chance to show beginners how to learn a stroke. I am always looking for new drills and ways to teach a novice class.
Thank you very much Tom for sharing. Your videos are very useful and watching your video have greatly improved my game.
Very appreciable the way you coach it Thanks
This is really helpful and instructive! Thank you!
As usual, great tips Tom. Can’t wait to implement the technique.
Thanks for the video, coach.
Great vídeo, exactly what I need for getting better! Thank you for this one Tom
Very interesting ! I think I can do it for the back hand loop as well !
Thank you coach. You are like a God for those who want to learn quality table tennis.
THANKS FOR THIS VERY GOOD VIDEO..
Your videos are simply great for the content and presentation, one of the best among many TT coaching videos
Thank you. I appreciate the positive feedback.
Hi Tom, thank you for your precise and detailed videos. I learned a lot just by making a small adjustments. Your videos, combined with my coaching, made an obvious "dent" in my play.
However.....have you thought of making a footwork (compilation) drills video which, I think, most of us are lacking off? Thanks in advance.
I am so glad you made this video. It's very helpful. Dziekuje bardzo :-)
3:16 I do the same with my students, but I elevate the net at least 15 cm over its usual height.
Thanks for the vid. This is great for beginners, like me.
2:08, you're not countering back spin, you're adding more spin to the way the ball is already spinning (your opponent's backspin is top spin from your perspective).
Really great tips, thanks!
Can't wait to practice this
Tom lodziak is a very good coach he's thinking is wide
Thanks Frank.
Great video! Perfect for the beginner like me , and all I need now is learn How to Serve the ball spinning and I become the master !!! :))
Thank you for the explanation excellent video!
Go on Tom we love your vieos and blogs.
Very useful info Tom,Thank you
Excellent tutorial !
Great video, can you return the serve with topspin and not only pushing?
very useful video, thank you.
Nicely explained in defferent steps. Thank you Tom for the lovely video.
Thank you very much Tom I like very well your videos
thank you so much tom
About time I've found a site that will teach ma how to beat the top level players. Even though I'm pushing fifty
Great video man, really helpful stuff!
Thank u sir....it is really helpful
*the* most important tip with this stroke, is to wait for the ball to just start falling down.
This stroke is impossible against a decent backspin (not the gentle push in the vid) if you do it when the ball is still rising.
This has to do with the contact time on the paddle (longer on tangential strokes)
Timing is important. And certainly some players like to take the ball as it is dropping. But you can still topspin when the ball is loaded with backspin and on the rise.
ive been teaching this stroke alot, i assure you it's infinitely easier when the ball is falling down. it may be possible for good players to do it on the rise with a good rubber against little spin. But beginners/intermediate (and some good players too) players trying this will only get frustrated not understanding why they fail if you dont teach them to hit on the beginning of the fall. Just try to teach a lower level amateur this stroke, you'll understand. The player will get frustrated and a sore shoulder if you feed them something a bit more spinny.
I teach this shot a lot too, and I assure you it is fairly easy to topspin a heavy backspin ball when it is on the rise (even to beginner / intermediates). Just a question of timing and using plenty of racket speed in an upward motion. Fairly simple really. But different coaches teach in different ways. So if your method works for you - then keep doing this.
I teach the stroke just as Tom does. I don't think that waiting for the ball to fall down is a good idea, because you have to calculate when it will happen (what is not easy at all because you can't see its trajectory from the side), many times it will force you to go far from the table (not a good idea to get a good attack), many times you will get late to the stroke (specially if you have to cope with a quick long push), it will force you to continously move back and forth and many times it will force you to hit the ball below or at table height. Too many problems which can be solved with a proper technique hitting close to the table.
@@RobertoCostas of course it's difficult, but it's necessary, otherwise you wont be able to attack on decent backspin, but merely gentle pushes like shown at 1:30 or 8:00 .
wonderful tutorial. thank you :)
Hi Tom, thank you, can you please suggest me the technique if the serve with heavy back spin is towards your back hand.Because when im trying to push with back hand , ball is popping up...
Hi, if you are pushing and the ball is popping up, it probably isn't heavy backspin. It's more likely to be light backspin or float. You could either do a backhand topspin or if you push you need to close bat angle more.
Good one!! Thanks
Thank you for the video! :-)
I got my rating up from 380 to 430 with these tips.
to be honest i dont completely like your technique, but the videos are great and you give people very good information. so, thank you.
hi. may I know what is your fh rubber?
Very nice 👍 couch
best video lesson
Please show how to atack a ball with heavy backspin. Thanks for your vids. Greetings from Argentina...
Hi, you can use the technique I show in the video to attack heavy backspin balls too. You will need to use your legs more and accelerate upwards more to lift the backspin. Here's a match of Timo Boll vs Joo Sae-hyuk, where he has to attack a lot of heavy chops: th-cam.com/video/gatqZi2bm7E/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for your time!!
You should brush on the right side of the ball to create more spin and more aggressive because that side has less underspin energy.
The description he gives is starting from just below the table level. When he plays the shot it's from nearer his ankle.
Looping a ball with opponent's backspin is not countering the spin, it is going with the spin.
Top spin does not lift the ball, it is the speed of the racket and the angle of impact that affect the lift. Top spin arcs the ball towards the table.
Hello coach, great video for beginners, it seems, as ive seen those training methods in some advice for teaching top spin to young, new players.
Ive watched many games lately and found out that many top players lift up their left leg when topspinning against strong back spin. Seen ma long do it against ruwen fillus or ma te. Seen paul gauzy do it, too, and several female players, too. Why do you think lifting the left leg (for a right handed player) would help top spin against back spin ?
I also found out that a super relaxed arm really helps nullify the spin (be it top spin or back spin) from the opponent ball. What is your opinion on this, too?
Definitely need to keep the arm relaxed. This is very important. If arm is too tense, you the stroke will become slower and it will be harder to lift the backspin. With the left leg coming up - I have never really noticed this. But I will look out for it now. I don't have an answer for that right now, but you have given me something to think about!
@@TomLodziak ma long vs ma te, look at a few of the very first top spins from ma long. Lifting left leg noticably. th-cam.com/video/eH4VwnQAsDc/w-d-xo.html
@@TomLodziak i think i may have understood the need for lifting the left leg against strong backspin. Power comes from the right leg, meaning the right foot should stick to the ground. But power also come from rotating the waist. If the right foot cannot move (stuck to the ground), the power transfer kinda requires the left foot to be light on the ground, or even requires the player to lift the left leg a bit, so that the waist can actually rotate. What do you think of that idea ? Are you ok with that ?
Also, if you dont move the left leg, your body rotation will be stopped abruptly, hence risking back ache. This is less likely to happen if the left leg is « free », i think.
gooood lesson. really\ like it
In my own game, I would like to improve againt a heavy chop, do you change anything from your video ? You get a ball sitting up with heavy chop and it just looks like it needs to be put away but unless you lift it with heavy topspin then you dump it into the net. Any thoughts..
If it is heavy backspin, you need to do everything I show in this video, but more so. You need to get your bat lower, and spin up more, with even more racket speed. You really need to commit to the shot, otherwise the ball ends up in the net.
Thanks Tom. I played last night against long pips and anti-spin, that was bizarre, up is down and down is up. Any suggestions for how to be more successful ?
Ha! Yes, it can be a horrible experience. At some point I'll create a video about this. In the meantime, take a look at this article I wrote for playing against long pimples...www.tabletenniscoach.me.uk/tactics-for-beating-a-long-pimples-player/
Thanks. Enyoyed the article.I will try to put it into practice.
Great video
Yes!
Most of back spins do not reach end of the table, hadly finish in middle of the table, what to do in such situations?
push or flick them back
The safest way is to push back imo
thanks, where to contact the ball, the contact point in the ball, and the contact ball in the racket?
Hi, to begin with try to brush the back / back-top of the ball. You should try and contact towards the top of your rubber. This will allow maximum brush contact with the ball.
Thanks
What if it is a short backspin serve? Seems like you can only push it, imo
You could push or flick short backspin serves. It depends how much backspin is on the serve. If it's a really heavy short backspin serve, it may be safer to push. But if it's a light backspin serve, then you have a chance to do a strong flick.
Thanks for the reply! Love your channel.
Can i send you my trainning video.. So that you can correct my mistakes
What racket should I use? I’m jus learning how to loop
Take a look at this article about rackets / rubbers for intermediate players. Lots of good advice and recommendations: www.tabletenniscoach.me.uk/best-table-tennis-bats-for-intermediate-players/
Tom Lodziak thank you mate
Tom Lodziak hi Tom, I was reading your article and I still couldn’t decide what I should buy. I am only 15 years old so the price has to be around 50AUD as I do live in Australia. I am an offensive player. Can you please tell me any suggestions? Cheers buddy
Very interesting techniques. Thank you, Tom!
Tom can you teach us how to play alone without partner and tabble
Hmm, this is tough. You can do shadow practice, practice spinning the ball with your bat and you can watch and analyse table tennis matches on TH-cam. But all this will only take you so far. There really is no substitute for actually getting on the table and hitting lots and lots of balls.
sir pls tell me y do u service too high to the player it is easy to kill the service when it is high pls tell me
By the way. You propose top spin as a return for a sidespin serve. Now you show a top spin against a backspin ball. Am I right to think that with a top spin one could return a sidespin serve AND a backspin serve AND a backspin serve with a sidespin. (Of course with different technique in both cases). And it is easy to return a topspin serve with a topspin. MY CONCLUSION. One can return ANY serve with a topspin (of course taking into account if it is a backspin or topspin to apply a correct technique) withount any worry about sidespin of a serve. And of course I mean the balls coming OFF the table.
Yes absolutely. You could return any serve with topspin, although very short heavy backspin serves are a little trickier. It actually makes returning serves a little easier in my opinion. It reduces some of the decision making. You just topspin everything! I'm actually making a video on exactly this topic.
Thank you! It is a very good news. Because "reading a serve" - at my opinion - comes ONLY AFTER quite a lot of repetions of returnig a serve, of getting rid of a pressere etc... While in our case one just need to see if it is a backpin or not AND read how much spin it has. And one learns at the same time a topspin. What is useful in any case. And in any case one should "read" a spin of a coming ball. A serve or a short.
And we are looking forward to a promised video. Thanks in advance.
What rubber is best for this?
Really, any type of decent inverted rubber will allow to spin the ball fairly easily. Here's a list of recommendations to get you started...www.tabletenniscoach.me.uk/best-table-tennis-rubbers-blades-advanced-players/
Mr Tom , how to spin up the ball if the ball come front the net, thanks
For short backspin balls, you need to play a flick shot. I'll record something on this soon. In the meantime, take a look at this video from PingSkills th-cam.com/video/heJZe0OTDnA/w-d-xo.html
Where do you finish the stroke? At the side of the head right? Not in front?
It depends. If it is heavy backspin, your stroke should be more 'up', finishing by side of the head. If it is light backspin, the stroke should be a bit more 'forward', finishing more in front of your face.
Tom Lodziak I am a beginner and my coach taught me to finish my stroke at the side of my head. Should I always keep on doing it until I get the hang of it?
Yes, I think this is good advice from your coach to begin with. If you finish your stroke up by the side of your head, you should be able to brush the back of the ball consistently.
Yes thank you.. :)
The problem is. AFTER your topspin your ball is perfect for a smash! The question is how REALLY to "ATTACK a backspin" instead of placing your ball for a perfect and easy attack? And the second question. You show how to hit a VERY high ball (well above the net). And nobody shows how to "attack" with a topspin a backspin which goes BELOW the level of the net.
PS But in any case thanks for your videos. They are very good.
If you place the ball well and attack with speed, then it really is not so easy for your opponent to counter-attack. It doesn't matter if the backspin ball is low or higher, you can use the same technique to spin the ball up. If the ball is very heavy backspin and very low, you will need to get your entire body lower, start with your bat lower and really accelerate upwards to lift the backspin.
When I attack a ball WITHOUT BACKSPIN I can more or less predict the trajectory of a ball as a combination of my force, the angle of the bat and a spin of the coming ball. And I manage to hit very hard, close to the table. But the ball stays on the table. But when I give a spin as you show (practically vertically) then my force is VERY small. Otherwise the ball does not touch the table. I understand aerodynamic. But I do not see than my spin REALLY forces the ball to go down.
My point is. I do not see how I can REALLY control the speed/force/impulse of the ball I send.
One of the key things is racket speed. If your bat moves up with little speed, then the attack will not be very good. The ball will be slow and short or may not make it over the net. But if you do the technique I show with a lot of speed, then you can attack backspin balls easily and very effectively.
Thanks fot your time. So the only way to complicate their " the life of your partner" is to give a maximum spin. What seems to me to be quite difficult while one must really BRUSH the ball without sending it up or forward. The coming ball should be quite slow. Or it is a question of excercise and reaction.
It can be very effective if you vary the amount of spin. Sometimes you could do slow and very spinny, other times, you could go faster, lower and a little flatter. If you can vary the spin of your attacks, it makes it harder for your opponent to adjust. And if you also vary the placement of your attacks, you should have a very strong attacking game.
What if the ball is slow and on the table
Hmm...... shouldn't we always keep our hand higher than the knee, never have the elbow stright, knee down a little to push the body up ranther than just fully swing the the arm? When I swing my arm like you do my coach always tells me off. (beginner)
+Hin5525 Yes, you should use your legs as well as arm. You may not be able to see in the video, but I am bending down slightly and pushing up with my legs. With other things you mention - different coaches will tell you different things as there are different ways of playing and succeeding at table tennis. If what your coach tells you works for you, keep doing it. But if not, give my methods a go.
will you be making videos about finding opponents' weakness, apply certain tatics for certain type of play style?
Hi, I will try and make some 'tactics' videos in the future. In the meantime, you can read my articles on tactics. Lots of useful information about how to play against different styles: www.tabletenniscoach.me.uk/category/tactics/
In this video, Zhang Jike takes his racket below his knee over and over.
th-cam.com/video/wSyILHjT9Nc/w-d-xo.html
There are many stills of this that show that. This is from when ZJK was world champion. Is his technique incorrect?
Yes, ZJK's technique is correct but doesn't mean it is suitable for a beginner. High-level players have a very good feel of touch, but beginners don't, so beginners should learn a form that can help develop the feeling and maintain good control rather than imitate top players.
Similar idea to why beginners should use a slow and soft blade to start with, rather than giving them the top player's equipment.
and how to attack a backspin ball with the backhand? thank you
How to attack really heavy backspin?
Also, jaydev Ashra, how about posting a video, so we can see what you are talking about? You are a great critique, but are very slow to post some examples of your coaching....
What if the backspin shot does not reach the end of the table to play this shot?
Your choices are to either push or flick.
@@TomLodziak Oh right got it. Yeah I saw that tutorial. Really appreciate you replying to my question !
Whenever I try to smash spin the ball it always hit the net
While producing top spin, one should accelerate its bat to its maximum. On the other hand - I suppose - one can differentiate one’s top spin. And I do not understand how.
How can I produce different heights of the arc above the net.
How can I produce different HORIZONTAL speed of the ball.
I mean which factors I “have the right” to change and which should remain untouched. For example, the maximum spin should be achieved in any case. It is untouched. But I can … I do not even know what.
When you push somebody or something with your hand or fist you can easily influence the effect while changing a lot of factors.
But in a case of top spin, the spin is a key factor, it is achieved only with explosion, maximum acceleration.
How the SPEED of coming ball SHOULD influence my technique while brushing the ball.
Yes, you can vary your topspin a lot. I'll give a scenario - your opponent pushes the ball with medium amount of backspin. You could (a) play a slow and heavy topspin by taking the ball a little later and brushing upwards more or (b) play a fast, spinny topspin by taking the ball earlier and playing more forwards compared to option 'a' or (c) you could play a topspin-drive where your stroke is much more forwards and the shot is less spinny.
Thanks, yes, your examples are based mainly on the level of the SITUATION and possible derivatives from these SITUATIATIONS.
My question was and is about the possibilities to PRODUCE A TOP SPIN, but with DIFFERENT force, speed and spin. Let’s suppose a ball come with a ‘medium” speed, without any spin, and it bounces just above the level of the net, and its peak is outside the edge of the table. That is, it is an easy, comfortable ball. Let’s suppose I play with skilled child or a charming female and I want
First, to produce always with SUCH balls a top spin
But, secondly, I want to change the arc, the speed, the force with each such ball.
What I am “allowed” to variate with my TECHNIQUE and what should I always do, if I want each time produce a top spin, and not a drive with rotation, for example? Where does the top spin end? Without which movement of this or that part of the arm it is no more top spin. Is it possible to produce “authentic” top spin without accomplishing a CLASSIC movements
For example, HOW I can while brushing a ball TO PRODUCE A SPIN influence the form of the arc at the same time. Or HOW I can while brushing a ball TO PRODUCE A SPIN influence the horizontal speed of my ball? How with the same BRUSH can I at the same time produce a spin I want AND a form of the arc I want, that is the question?
Ok,I think I understand your question. The thing you must always do is brush the ball with an upwards movement. Everything else you can vary if you want to. Small swing, big swing, high swing, low swing, slow wig, fast swing - these will all create topspin as long as you brush the ball. In theory, you could use completely unorthodox technique, but you will still create topspin as long as you brush the ball with an upwards movement.
The problem is when the opponent send me low chop.. when i returned, it goes to the net..
If it is really heavy backspin and low, then you need to aim your topspin even higher, with fast racket speed. You also need to use your legs to help lift the ball. Get low and push up with your legs to help generate some upward momentum.
Tom: no offense intended (really), but you need to take some lessons. I've tried seeing many of your videos. In almost all of them, I see severe deficiency in technique. This is from an average club players' perspective (and not from a pro's).
+Goodkat No offence taken, although 'severe deficiency in technique' is a little bit over the top! Fully aware there are many things I need to improve in my own game. If you have any specific constructive feedback, please do share.
Take this video (for starters): (1) the biggest problem you have here is you're using your arm / forearm to power the shot (even though you do bend low and swivel the hip). This is evident in the tightness in your arm / shoulder, especially at the end of the stroke. You need to use your hips / legs to power the stroke and keep your arm / shoulder loose (with forefinger / thumb tightening onto blade face just before contact time). The main advantages are not in power alone (though it does generate a powerful stroke), but in (1a) control - using legs / hips for power and hand loose leaves hand free to do micro-adjustments to stroke which is very difficult otherwise, and (1b) recovery - using arm for power means worse recovery time. (2) you are also going up and not forwards. Against backspin, you need to contact ball at peak or just after and then go forwards (so that the ball does not sit up after bounce on the other side). There is more but going into more detail just confuses the main message. Hope this helps.
Fair point about tightness of arm and shoulder. Trying to play looser is something I'm working on. Regarding second point 'you are also going up and not forwards' - this is a deliberate and legitimate choice. I like the safety of spinning up when playing against backspin. And as long as I play the shot with good placement and speed, I'm not too bothered in the ball bounces up or not. If I execute the shot well, I should be in control of the rally. -
Hi blood bath - there is definitely some use of my legs and waist when I play this shot in the video, not just arm. Is there as much use of legs, waist and weight transfer as top Chinese players? Nowhere near! This is deliberate. This video is aimed at beginners / improvers. From my experience it is not helpful to teach beginners advanced Chinese technique - it is just too hard for them. It is best to start with a simpler technique and progress from there.
I understand that, but I agree that using the legs to propell the rest of the body upward and forward is quite essential. It's not advanced (like e.g. applying pressure with the fingers, or where exactly in the curve you hit the ball, or even using the wrist for extra spin)
Rafael Nadal might be pretty good at this if he trained for table tennis!
This is a loop vs very weak backspin. It gets a lot harder if the backspin is stronger
That's an easy push return by the way, not heavy back spin
Pro tip: If you miss the ball, dont smash your head with the racket! Ouch
Top spin is fine. But i need real back spin i mean intense
Daghan storya
How do you attack a backspin ball but you wanna backspin that backspin ball
There was almost no backspin on that ball in the demonstration at the start surely?
There is definitely backspin on the balls James was feeding me. I wouldn't say it was heavy backspin, more like light-medium backspin.
This demostration is for beginner.
Thank you Tom for your simple but important technique in learning basic looping.
Here we go, another armchair expert. Give the bloke a break for fucks sake, hes trying to help
you failed to show the right leg position
We call this stroke digging the ball. Idk y
Why is he calling it a “bat”? I thought it was called a racquet or paddle.
"Bat" is pretty common in the UK.
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