Kabbalah and Platonism (w/ Dr. Justin Sledge)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- Topics: A brief history of Jewish esotericism, Philo of Alexandria, Heikhalot and Merkavah mysticism, Book of Enoch, Egyptian and Persian Influence, Hellenism, "Medieval" Judaism, Arabic influences, Talismanic Magic, Astral Magic, Astrology, Alchemy, Magic, The Brethren of Purity, Picatrix, Kabbalah, The Zohar, Sefer Yetzirah, the Sephiroth, Christian Cabala, Platonism/Neoplatonism, Averroes, Maimonides, Petrus Alfonsi, Nachmanides, Pablo Christiani, Abraham Abulafia, Joachim of Fiore, Ramon Llull, Marsilio Ficino, Pico Della Mirandola, Elijah Del Medigo, Flavius Mithridates, Yohanan Alemanno, Dominican and Franciscan orders, the Latin polemical tradition, etc.
Speakers: Dan Attrell and Justin Sledge
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What an amazing interview! Two scholars that I admire in one talk.
TH-cam is lucky two have you both sharing your knowledge.
Thanks Angela, that's very kind of you to say! I've also been enjoying your work here, so thank you as well!
To everyone else, if you're reading this, go sub to Angela's Symposium.
@@TheModernHermeticist Aw thank you so much, that's lovely!
I'd love to do a collaboration together at some point. :-)
@@drangelapuca Sure thing! I've got a lot on the go right now in preparing for teaching in the winter term, but I will stay in touch.
👋😇a
@@TheModernHermeticist what was Reuben calling ?
This might be one of the best things to have been uploaded to the youtube.
Please please please have another conversation with Justin Sledge. Yall two are the best, and thus is the most fascinating conversation I've ever heard.
BUMP
I like these wide-ranging discussions, fascinating as always.
Glad you like them. Some people have mixed feelings about meandering 3 hour chunks but that's the format I like from other creators!
May the most important and informative talk on western esotericism I've heard in my hundreds of hours of listening on the topic.
🙏
The flight of the alone into the alone....yet here we are........ listening to you two! Great conversation, as usual! There are so many ideas, histories, philosophies, gods etc to ascend/descend into..truly heavenly. Keep up the amazing work, Dan.
@@Joandearc594 I'm quoting Plotinus.
Thank you so much for sharing this video. I'm not a philosopher nor knowledgeable in esoteric or occult arts but I've been self-studying different forms of astrology like Vedic or Hellenistic astrology and also Chinese metaphysics for 3 years now and I've always been fascinated with astrological magic that's why I ended up with your videos. The thing when Jews and Christians were exchanging/debating about their beliefs in renaissance or middle ages in Europe is like how Chinese merchants and Spanish conquistadors were exchanging or debating ideas when my country was under the Spanish Empire.
I'm always fascinated with the esoteric and occult philosophy of the western world-especially in astrological magic. What a great channel is this! 🙏
I know this is late as heck, but F'ing lovely! Thanks so much for collaborating, but also simply for addressing the topic of interest so thoroughly! I enjoy and learn from what you both have to say and appreciate this material being available so very very much as a Religious Studies Student in the UC system (not sure why I'm keeping it anonymous).
Thank you so much for this video. But Dr. Justin Sledge, and other TH-camrs, I would like to ask you to do a follow up video on Plato the Qabalist and whether or not the unwritten doctrines are the Greek Qabalah. Have you ever compared the platonic divided line to the kabbalistic tree of Life? It's literally the same thing symbol and explains how the entire universe can be explained through the divided line aka tree of life. Now add in the fact that Iamblicus says in de mysteries that Plato and Pythagoras learned from the pillars of Hermes. So if you add the pillars, two vertical lines to The divided line you now have pretty much the entire symbol for the kabbalistic tree of Life. Now add in the fact that Plato studied under Pythagorean esotericism in Italy and the most well-known symbol for Pythagorean esotericism is the tetractys or 10 dots/circles. so if we add together The divided line with the pillars of Hermes and the Pythagorean 10 dots we now have the entire symbol of the tree of life. Now get this... Ever heard of isopsephy? It's the Greek idea of the equivalent to gematria, temurah, and notorikon. So we can show that the entire symbol and use of Qabalah already existed in the times and doctrines of Plato. So I was hoping you would do a more rigorous analysis in a video talking about how this could possibly be the origin of the Hebrew Kabbalah since we have no evidence of the Hebrew Kabbalah existing before the library of Alexandria. But we have proof that what I just said about the divided line and isopsephy can be traced back to minimum 350bc with Plato's Republic etc. And maximum Pythagoras in 600bce. Anyone else want to discuss this? What do you think? Please let me know by responding to this comment
Fascinating collaboration! I have been wishing for this ever since I've been following you both. I love the topics you pursue - mystical aquisition of knowledge, the apocalyptic worldview, the transmission of knowledge between kabalah and occultism. Thank you for carying the torch of the history of human thought!
Our pleasure!
Nice! Two awesome topic. Got 2 birds stoned at once
Hate to say a toadaso, but fucking a toadaso!
My two favorite TH-camrs talking about one of my favorite topics. *Chef's kiss*
One of my favorite parts of the discussion was about the response one typically gets from modern academia whenever someone wants to study or discuss the esoteric side of things; it's amazing how deep some professors will go when talking about major figures in western philosophy, history and theology, but as soon as you suggest exploring the more esoteric aspects of their works you'll be told "oh that's just the silly stuff and we don't actually study that or you'll be laughed at."
I LOVE this channel, it points out a lot of the whole modern gnosticism and wiccan belief origins. Kind of showing all belief systems (not just christians) have similar beginnings and explanations.
Just want to add my thanks and appreciation to the comments section. Two fabulously learned sharp minds in profound sympathetic conversation. I can get down about the modern world but it does have its miracles. I can tell you my life would have been different if this type of thing had been around in my youth. But it's different now in my old age because of it. Thank you, gents.
Truly enjoyed this spectacular in-depth discussion on the historical interplays of past philosophers and god seekers...I loved the banter between Dan Attrell and Justin Sledge. When theological tolerance begins to thrive and Hermetic principles are properly applied to the laws of physics through the use of modern materials, humanity’s journey to the stars shall begin. It will be Sophia herself showing us the way. The End of the World will be merely a change in how we define it, a new point of reference, not a reckoning of mass destruction.
Half way through and already can tell this is going to take many listens for me to fully grasp. Amazing stuff man. Ypur guest is super super intellegent and you guys seem to have a lot of respect for one another. Love it. Thanks again.
Thanks for listening, whether once or thrice!
I’ve been waiting on this one since I discovered Dr. Sledge’s channel. Fascinating stuff guys, I’m looking forward to the next discussion. I don’t think you’ll run out of things to discuss any time soon.
thank you so much for 3.5 hours of fascinating discussion! two of my favorite religious scholars.
Interestingly, the Sumerians used the word "name" to refer to a statue of a deity. In Egypt and, if I am not mistaken, in Ugarit, sometimes one deity was considered the embodied name of another deity.
In Kabbalah there are many reinterpretations of Gnostic ideas, which have been adapted to the Jewish narrative of "being chosen". And Gnosticism, in turn, is secondary to Platonism and Neo-Pythagoreanism. That is, there is both a direct influence of Platonism and an indirect influence through Gnosticism on Kabbalah.
In some kabbalistic texts, by the way, they are called "pagan" deities, to whom there are special prayers, just according to ideas these deities are allegedly "subordinate to Yahweh".
Luv it panoramic yet rich discussion of a diverse movement(s) very informative , fills in so many gaps in forming an overall picture of diverse practices of this form of spirituality I luv ❤️
Super interesting conversation! Thank you both!
Thanks for listening
Attrel and sledge discussing esoteric science. It doesn't get any better then this. 🌟
So many questions for which I have sought answers touched on in this interview. Definitely warrants multiple listens as so many of your interviews do. I eagerly await the next interview as well as your forthcoming translation!
Thanks no thanks, it's on its way!
"The irrational roots of rationslism" Nicely put. Reason and logic are wonderful tools, but the usefulness of those tools is ultimately an aesthetic decision.
Reason cannot make the case for its own value.
Both great channels on this subject, can't wait to get through this group lecture.
This was great, what a great Duo to do a podcast/lecture.
So far, both channels are some of the top channels on this subject. Altruisian Grace Media and Centre Place also covers this subject and others related to it.
I hope to see a video which includes all 4 of you guys. I don't know if AGM is more of a "voice", but from what I see, you guys would help Centre Place with their understanding of Hermeticism and the other more occult, while Centre Place could also help with the religions of the eras talked about.
In any case, I love your channel because it is great to listen to while working.
Currently listening to your podcast about Magick, so far it is interesting. She is very light-hearted and I find myself smiling the whole interview. "Magic circles" made me laugh a bit.
Anyhow, thank you for your good work and keep it up!
Finally getting around to plowing through this. Great stuff.
you guys should really considere to publish this discussions on spotify!
in special, this episode can be break into many pieces.
Great discussion between you and the sledgehammer....thank you
I just got my MA in ancient and medieval philosophy and classical philology, and the stuff y'all are saying about having to conform to the academy in order to have a career hits home. I submitted a project studying (or looking for) the Kabbalistic roots of Eckhart's thought and tracing it into the Reformation, but haven't found a position yet. Now I'm working on a more "mainstream" type project to submit (though not losing hope in the first). Perhaps it's better to establish a career and then study this on your own?
PS Moses de Salerno, one of the first translators of the Guide for the Perplexed into Latin (it is thought, at least), wrote in his commentary on the Guide "the Christian scholar with whom I work". It's interesting because Moses Salerno engaged in polemics. I tried to find info on this to understand the nature of this working relationship but it's difficult to find. Anyone know anything? He seems to be heavily inspired by Ibn Tibbon who worked with Michael Scott.
Hows the projects?
Love these kind of channels 👌
✌️
Fantastic discussion. Both of you work very well together.
Glad you enjoyed it, we're gonna try to do it again ASAP.
This is worth more than 1 listen
Happy new year to all.
Happy new year!
I plan to use the term "ecstatic specialist" to excuse a lot of my past and future behavior.
We can thank Mircea Eliade for that one.
This was totally wonderful. Thanks guys!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Dissolution of The Long Parliament 1653 Oliver Cromwell trinkets and baubles Thank you kindly for sharing.
I really like this channel. I admire your scholarship.
Thank you very much!
Time well spent.
Awesome! Great content for the commute.
Thanks Hermes.
You are aware that traditionally the moon was seen as containing a chariot whereas in our modern times we in our popularity see the face of the man in the moon instead. So when one is pulled along by the chariot it might serve one better to regard that as being the time of a lunar month.
Great show! Good chemistry! A new channel to explore to! New content for my hungry ears. Thanks
Janks as always Jekazol.
👍 good video
👍
Great discussion, King John Richard the Lion hearts brother confiscated castles from the Baron on the Welsh boarders and had him executed his father had left him 13 castles on the border but he had sold most of them for young boys for practicing magic of a fashion ,I believe King John only ended up with about two castles, I imagine a lot of knowledge was also apprehended.
I didn't realize that these two had a crossover here until just now lol
Yay go dan!
Loved this
Thanks.
The deuterocanon of traditional christianity utilizes Hellenistic material throughout. Even if we consider christianity in its very Jewish roots of the first century it utilizes non-jewish ideas quite a bit. The book of John opens with aristotelian philosophy, revelation is packed with Greek imagery, and there's even points where the christians teach the pagan Greeks unknowingly worshipped the God of isreal!
Are these uploaded as audio files anywhere? I like listen on the go
@@501promo I usually do too, was just hoping there was an official option
Right on !
Ficino's and Pico's hermetic bromance may well indeed have been the first. It was obviously not the last. ;-)
Interesting discussion.
Do you have any programs on hermeticism/occultism in the Byzantine empire?
I'm not sure if the channel has such episode, but I believe you would like to know about Gemistos Plethon, he was an hermeticist from the Bizantine Empire that was very important in the Italian Renaissance. It is worth searching about him.
Thanks 😊
You're welcome!
Nice
Tremendous!
Thanks Joe.
@@TheModernHermeticist Your welcome sir!
Loved it, All The Way thru!
Truly could’ve/would’ve kept on listening
**thinking....
^this was really good^ (thanks) -& it felt good, serendipitous..
Y’all’r 2 of the truer, et al. philo-sophs / non-compunctious / nonco-insular ; That I’ve ever quite come across.
**How benefited would We(viewers) -& come-acrossers, etc. be(?)....
If ^these^ great fellas adjunct endeavors sublimates infusions - a collaborative compaction = into a/n (semi-committed) serialized collaborators-collaborations Of massive smarts -& anodyne remediations (combatant to menial capitulation) so it does so assuage, emboldening rapacious: off-kilter = throw a matchbook under the table-leg / but mention it not when your friends are there.
🤷🏻♂️
Great Stuff.
(I’m a person - I’m submitting my affliction : disparate diction - derisive fodder w/taking any opportunity for vocab-practices.. while true, still... entombed in overwrought juvenile doling in languages fodder.... I’m very sincere in my utmost delighted satisfaction with ^this^ = Yall’ve done ^here^ > very smooth -& I look forward to (hopefully) more of ^these^ types/forum collaborative humbled ‘n sincere broadcasts.
***disclaimer**
This is in no way a comment to take anything away from any of the vastness of quality works that This_Channel is known for: // I.O.W. = Dans the Man
I read Timaeus the other day. I highly recommend it.
Deep
Primal Concrete Sledge!!!
Which three sentences in De Anima wss Dr. Sledge referring to? I'd like to look them up. Thanks.
De Anima iii 5 - "Since in all of nature something is the matter for each genus (and this is all those things in potentiality), while something else is their cause and is productive (poiêtikon), by producing them all as a craft does in relation to the matter it has fashioned, necessarily these same differentiations are present in the soul. And one sort of mind exists by coming to be all things and one sort of mind exists by producing all things, as a kind of positive state, like light. For in a certain way, light makes colors existing in potentiality colors in actuality.
And this mind is separate and unaffected and unmixed, being in its essence actuality. For what produces is always superior to what is affected, as too the first principle is to the matter.
[Actual knowledge is the same as the thing known, though in an individual potential knowledge is prior in time, though it is not prior in time generally.]
But it is not the case that sometimes it thinks and sometimes it does not. And having been separated, this alone is just as it is, and this alone is deathless and everlasting, though we do not remember, because this is unaffected, whereas passive mind is perishable. And without this, nothing thinks."
Thanks! Reminds me of Buddhist ideas of the true nature of mind. Really enjoying this discussion, and both of your work.
Thanks for listening Edward.
When you start listening to a video before you realise it's over 3 hours long! Never mind, I'm sticking till the end.
CC, PLEASE
Ta Dan x
What was the name of the kabbalist that lent you the study guide? Is the study guide readily available?
Jochanan Alemanno - th-cam.com/video/4ZJ8k2fyZv4/w-d-xo.html
@@TheModernHermeticist Thanks!
People didn't know how to make a triangle with out Pythagoras, too funny
Hey where is the translation of Ficino on "Christian Religion"???
Slowly but surely being pushed through at the press. Things move pretty slow in the world of academic publishing. We only just got to pick our cover art last week, but it is coming along, it's just been out of our hands for a year now.
@@TheModernHermeticist oh ok, nice...who is publishing it?
University of Toronto Press
@@TheModernHermeticist awesome, have any idea of publication date?
@@TheModernHermeticist Hello, I’m just curious if there is any news on this?
Where can I find your translation on Picatrix?
Picatrix: amzn.to/3dfZDLm
@@TheModernHermeticist Thank you :)
0:08 2:32:17 You will never see a channel like mine!
I go LIVE everyday and you can ask me anything you like, I answer all questions with no filters.
I am looking for people to discuss everything with, come hang out with me and discover something about yourself.
Hollllyyyy nother. 3 hours tf? Christmas? Already?
🙏
The assessment of Jewish cosmic geography is not reflecting the latest scholarship. I recommend Segal's book "Two Powers in heaven"
And Michael S. Heiser's book the Unseen Realm.
Jewish cosmic geography and concept of "Elohim" is very robust.
Have any of you read Brian C. Muraresku "The Immortality Key" it is about psychedelic use in ancient greece and in early christianity and as well in the mediterranean region, Egypt and so on?
I have not read his book, but I think I have read most of the authors he cites around a decade ago when I did my MA on mystery cults.
@@TheModernHermeticist he finds a lot of new archaeological/archaeochemistry evidence of psychedelic compounds + and he gets to plunge into the vatican archives, a most interesting read.
o.o
I think these guys would like John Vervaeke.
We did a collab back with him at the beginning of the year.
@@TheModernHermeticist Awesome, I'll check it out. Thanks! Where do I find the video?
They weren't collabs in the sense of doing videos together so much as we all planned to release videos on a shared topic at the same time. Dr. Sledge did Plotinus against the Gnostics, I did The Platonic Philosophers' Creed.
@@TheModernHermeticist Ah, I see.
Academic philosophy nowadays has been bastardized and cut off from its true roots. These are the platonic origins and the prisca theologia that all the great adepts throughout time knew about and were active practitioners of. It is amazing how exactly what the modern day philosopher Alan Watts described philosophy to have become continues to be so accurate and relevant, a myth making machine that fosters delusion and apathy and thus ignorance, which, the great oracles said is the only sin. Thank you! Wonderful lecture otherwise! Kabbalah needs to be more widespread and known for it revels great secrets.
Academic philosophy is sterile. It's completely self-contained and price-walled. That's the business model of the academic publishing and college industries. See? I studied Philosophy at Harvard. Academic philosophy can't help but be sterile. Churches of all kinds are franchised broadly and open door. It sounds odd to some, but "Sunday school" is the right locale for philosophy. The Theosophical Society is the closest thing to a Philosophy Church that already exists. The opportunities are enormous. We have wide open fields now for new real Philosophical Schools. We just need wills at work and a little organization.
Wasn’t the Torah written around 1400 BC?
“And the Middle East brought a lot of people together “ through slavery and the most brutal slavery that has ever existed
39:00 This sounds like ancient lovecraftian stuff
It's no coincidence that H.P. Lovecraft got a lot of his ideas from Arabic and Judeo-Christian magic!
Kabbalah vs Platonism more like Kamala vs Pence-onism am I rite fellow americans?
It’s the Jesuits against Trump
kabbalah harris.. grew up in the richest area of Montreal , fed with a silver spoon, she's a fake commie scumbag just like most politicians. they all have an agenda
Yass queen Slay em
Ok, Andrew HARRIS.
😂
YAHSHUA HA MASHIACH HAS returned Revelation 2:27!!!
Ah, yes. Azazel.
The Scapegoat was a sacrifice to Azazel.
2:36:50 This is why the Alt -Right is coopting Mysticism now. I'm sure you both have a large percentage of Alt-Right subscribers.
When the Tetragrammaton is arranged vertically it kinda looks like the body of God according to to Shuir Komah
I am a layman, I was wondering, are they talking descent or dissent, like the separation from orthodoxy? So are the talking about falling into the realms or would they be using the verb for separation from regular methods for seeking truth or knowledge?
If it's "descent of the intellectual soul" or something akin to that, then it's descent and not dissent. It's a kind of non-spatial, metaphysical descent from unity to multiplicity.