What if Finland Didn’t Exist? - A Stronger Sweden | Alternate History

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2024

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  • @Neatling
    @Neatling  2 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

    Receive a Unique Starter Pack, only available for the next 30 days! Play Supremacy 1914 for FREE on PC or Mobile: 💥 s1914.onelink.me/TX2k/NEAT001

  • @Chiquinho971
    @Chiquinho971 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +126

    Days without scandinavia video: 0

    • @Cortizelic
      @Cortizelic วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      Balanced as all things should be. 😂

  • @Finallaten12142
    @Finallaten12142 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +78

    You're the only Dane Swedes respect
    Keep up the great work man

    • @AlexisPerez-yy7dk
      @AlexisPerez-yy7dk วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      He's dane?! How you know?

    • @larsrons7937
      @larsrons7937 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      @@AlexisPerez-yy7dk The channel is based in Denmark. Open the channel proper, then at the to expand "About..." You'll see it's based in Denmark. From this we can't "know" that he's a Dane, but it's a good guess.

    • @AlexisPerez-yy7dk
      @AlexisPerez-yy7dk วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@larsrons7937 oh wow makes sense.... .. I thought he was American based on his accent

    • @larsrons7937
      @larsrons7937 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@AlexisPerez-yy7dk Yes, he uses American accent. British is the accent most commonly taught in Danish schools, but other accents are just as valid if the teacher speaks them. Besides, it is quite common to live abroad for some time, through studies, exchange or work, so the could be many ways to pick up the American accent, which is, beside the British accent, used by many Danes.

  • @Siltarius
    @Siltarius 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +34

    The bio for this channel should be: Scandinavia and other extra stuff
    Also nice video

    • @Jebu911
      @Jebu911 22 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      well i mean todays video is about finland being gone and finland is not in scandinavia. Alltho i guess because sweden is it still counts

  • @Maltheus_
    @Maltheus_ 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +32

    Alternate title: What if Sweden kept its ballsack?

    • @Pedro_Ferrandi
      @Pedro_Ferrandi วันที่ผ่านมา

      Lmao

    • @chronnyc
      @chronnyc 13 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +3

      True in many interpretations.

  • @alehaim
    @alehaim วันที่ผ่านมา +28

    I am quite certain that there would be a Finnish national movement during the 19th century even if Sweden retained control, as historically Sweden was relatively more liberal than Russia and even under Russia there were national movements by the Ingrians of St Petersburg region who had never had any form of state. With a much more liberal political environment under Sweden, industrialisation, ides of nationalism and more, even the well integrated Finnish regions would demand more rights as industrialisation alone would drive great discontent, and the question of Finnish rights would be a topic of contention.
    Sweden would have to react to a Finnish national movement in order to hope to retain Finland under any peaceful control. Historically Sweden was more than happy to forcefully assimilate the northern Sami and Finns under its direct jurisdiction, and based on this precedent alongside a much larger Finnish population of continued Swedish rule in Finalnd, even in peace the Swedes would have to contend with a Finnish nationalist movement that would form in reaction to a Swedish nationalist movement desiring to assimmilate the Finns owing to the effects of industrialization helping radicalize Finnish workers who would be in an inferior position to the Swedes. Now if you take into account wars such as how Finland might become a battleground during the Crimean war, Germany perhaps trying to court the Swedes to join against Russia in WW1, and Swedish struggle against the Soviets in WW2, it is very certain the Russians especially would try to stoke Finnish nationalism for pragmatic reasons, that especially during the interwar years and WW2 would witness communism in Finland absolutely gaining traction as reaction against Swedish domination.
    Sweden's political and social makeup following the Napoleonic wars would be fundamentally different with Sweden retaining Finland, because it's a direct part of Sweden with a notable minority population ready to gain consciousness, especially as Finns already had a written language that would get written down no matter if the Russians or Swedes ruled them, as that process had begun already during the protestant reformation. There would be grave class and ethnic tensions between the wealthier Swedish Finns and working class native Finns, which could easily be worsened by Swedish nationalist governments fearing the rise of communism for example and thus further causing problems, because these communists are not Swedes and would easily result in Finns being seen as communists in the Swedish public.
    Frankly, your video while being alright is just such wasted potential, especially as you ignore the socioeconomic and political ramificaitons of a sizable majority within Sweden proper

    • @banan268
      @banan268 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Hello, as a finn the independence movements only took place under the russification period during the early 1900s where we we're persecuted. During the 1800s the population did not wish for independece, because our autonomy and national identifiy was enough.

    • @banan268
      @banan268 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Also Finland was not inferior to sweden it was a part of sweden, since the middle ages we could send a king nominee etc.

    • @Comradetau1
      @Comradetau1 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      ​@@banan268
      I would say that it was the independent institutions that we got as autonomy from Russia that caused the movement long before the operssion but that speed it up. Under Sweden we had fair representation yes and that was big reason why idea of Finnish nation was not that huge, because we already were equal part Sweden same as Göteborg for example. Under Russia we got own money, senate etc. That was the driver of our own identity.

    • @makhnothecossack4948
      @makhnothecossack4948 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      ​@@banan268Yes, however it wasn't really the Finns as it were the Swedish-speaking nobility that voted for the king, and Finnish language was indeed inferior, and from 1700's we can find cases like plans to remove sauna as a cultural practice because according to Stockholm, it wasted timber, true story.

    • @ilililil490
      @ilililil490 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@Comradetau1 Fyodor Logginovich as the governor-general also implemented a lot of policies with the senate like supporting Finnish instead of Swedish as the official administrative language and other subtle "russification" policies that made the fennoman movement later on strengthen and weaken the aristocratic svecomanns. Edit: Grammar correction

  • @chheinrich8486
    @chheinrich8486 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +14

    Great, post Crimean war Finnland is even closer to St. Petersburg, which was the whole reason they annexed it in our timeline in the first place

  • @christianolsson1610
    @christianolsson1610 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +28

    As a swede, i like this timeline. Subcribed.

    • @lassitmtgmailcom
      @lassitmtgmailcom วันที่ผ่านมา

      No independent Finland. How would you react if some Dane wished that Sweden never regained independence

    • @Finngolian12
      @Finngolian12 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I dont Sweden is the worst country to ever exist

    • @butterflies655
      @butterflies655 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@Finngolian12Don't be stupid!

    • @jimmywashere5931
      @jimmywashere5931 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@Finngolian12It's okay bro we can help you cope ❤

    • @Finngolian12
      @Finngolian12 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@jimmywashere5931 not coping I just dont like Sweden

  • @heh9392
    @heh9392 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    0:30 You forgot the old borders of Finland, old Karjala.

  • @alexanderbjorling6825
    @alexanderbjorling6825 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    As we are arguably the closest of all European partnerships, I tip my hat in remembering the time we were one but deeper than that cherish the sovereignty of Finland aswell as Sweden. As that was the point in all of our shared history, one couldn't have survived on it's own but together our forefathers bled and died in the same ditches in the hundreds of thousands for our collective freedom.
    Together we have shared the glory of victory, but also suffered the bitterness of defeat, as Mannerheim said.
    I dedicate this comment with nothing but respect and admiration for Finland and the Finnish people, may our fraternity last for another thousand years.
    Kippis from Ruotsi

  • @gr7496
    @gr7496 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    As a French, i love your videos about Scandinavia.

  • @TheHatersarebad
    @TheHatersarebad 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    What if Margaret Maid of Norway survived and married Edward II of England?

  • @Xcyiterr
    @Xcyiterr 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    wake up babe, Neatling posted another banger Scandinavia video

  • @EliMillhiser-w7q
    @EliMillhiser-w7q 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Banger video🎉

  • @blackbird7744
    @blackbird7744 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    That thumbnail was unneccessary💀

  • @TheSwedishHistorian
    @TheSwedishHistorian วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Personally I think 5:00 it would mean Sweden stays outside the war because they are big enough that nobody would want to invade. This would mean russia never faces the embarrassment of the winter war and doesnt improve their military. So Russia would do slightly worse in WW2

  • @TheHatersarebad
    @TheHatersarebad 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    What if Scandinavia conquered Russia?

    • @Pedro_Ferrandi
      @Pedro_Ferrandi วันที่ผ่านมา

      So if it won the Great Northern War?

  • @jordandino417
    @jordandino417 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    The greatest loss of this timeline is that there’s no more “Njet Molotoff” :(

  • @lucone2937
    @lucone2937 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    A. I. Arwidsson (1791-1858) said this famous Fennoman credo: "Swedes we are no longer, Russians we do not want to become, let us therefore be Finns." (Swedish form: "Svenskar äro vi icke längre, ryssar vilja vi icke bli, låt oss alltså vara finnar" Finnish form: "Ruotsalaisia emme enää ole, venäläisiksi emme tahdo tulla, olkaamme siis suomalaisia."). The Finnish national movement considered Arwidsson the mastermind of an independent Finland.
    If Finland had stayed together with Sweden, the Finnish language should have given an equal official status with Swedish. The Kalevala (first edition 1835) was instrumental in the development of the Finnish national identity and the intensification of Finland's language strife that ultimately led to Finland's independence from Russia in 1917.
    After Sweden lost Finland in 1809, the Swedes still manage to capture Norway in 1814. It was a personal union of the separate kingdoms of Sweden and Norway under a common monarch and common foreign policy until 1905.

  • @sillylittleinternetperson3932
    @sillylittleinternetperson3932 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    the best timeline

  • @pep-qew
    @pep-qew 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Yet another pan-nordic banger

  • @larsrons7937
    @larsrons7937 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Nice video, with the alternative initial events, that could well have happened, I find the rest of the hypothetical history very likely. This was a funny experiment.

  • @Draktand01
    @Draktand01 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    The constitutional monarchy we have today was also a consequence of losing Finland, so we might actually be less democratic in this timeline.
    This would probably also be a stabilizing factor in regards ti Finland, as democracy would probably favor Finnish nationalism.

    • @vicolin6126
      @vicolin6126 วันที่ผ่านมา

      It is also possible that the monarchy in Sweden went the way of the dodo, like so many others during the 1800's and later WW1. That war basically weakened the power of kings and queens by a lot. A strong monarch would have less of a chance at surviving on the throne than a weak one in a constititional monarchy (where the king has no power).

  • @juanmendez3290
    @juanmendez3290 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Guys I think Neatling likes scandinavia

  • @planetarystargazer
    @planetarystargazer 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    What If the theoretical Mars-Sized Planet Phaeton existed today assuming it had formed at 2 AU from our Sun (double the Earth's distance from our Sun)

  • @baselius662
    @baselius662 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Finnland and Sweden had shared the country for several centuries. I don't think Finnland would break away, but Finns would demand more autonomy, such as creating a Lutheran church of Finnland with Finnish as the liturgical language and Finnish schooling. Swedish would continue to dominate higher education and the coastal cities. With urbanisation, the large cities or Helsinki and Åbo will become less homogeneous, but Swedish would prevail as the language of the higher classes.

  • @Waitermelonyoutube
    @Waitermelonyoutube 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Nice video

  • @TheAustralianMapper5378
    @TheAustralianMapper5378 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Ok now what if Russia never existed

    • @elysiumfields
      @elysiumfields วันที่ผ่านมา

      Happiness and world peace. Well, most of the world.

  • @spikodud
    @spikodud วันที่ผ่านมา

    We need a baltic alt history fr fr

  • @Lukdnuke_Narson
    @Lukdnuke_Narson 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Neat

  • @alaskanbullworm5500
    @alaskanbullworm5500 22 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    The phallic kingdom of Sweden-Finland

  • @TheHatersarebad
    @TheHatersarebad 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    What if the Fourth Crusade never happened?

  • @osk9013
    @osk9013 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Finland was Sweden's exploitative country. Swedes understood that Finns are not Swedes, even though the country was only one part of Sweden. Over the centuries, Sweden did not really develop Finland.

  • @heh9392
    @heh9392 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Also your take would'nt make much sense on Sweden only being threatened in WW2, I think they are more threatened after the Napoleonic wars till the Russian revolution, as St Petersburg was the capital back then and after the Revolution Moscow, which would maybe decrease the Russians being so eager to take Finland, as St Petersburg wasn't the capital anymore.

  • @beans00001
    @beans00001 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    waiter waiter more Scandinavian videos please

  • @rphb5870
    @rphb5870 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    ye know that was never going to happen.
    Finland could have and properly would have joined a unified Scandinavia. They would have been an equal member. But under Sweden they would only have been a colony.

  • @adrianaxelssonpersson2456
    @adrianaxelssonpersson2456 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Is the House of Holstein-Gottorp still on the swedish throne in this timeline?

    • @adrianaxelssonpersson2456
      @adrianaxelssonpersson2456 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Or does the House of Bernadotte still succeed it?

    • @vicolin6126
      @vicolin6126 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@adrianaxelssonpersson2456 Pretty sure Holstein-Gottorp would remain. The only reason Sweden took on Bernadotte was because King Gustav IV was deposed after he basically lost Finland to Russia, when he could have easily avoided it happening by just not going against Napoleon. The king was very adamant about disliking Napoleon, and everything he stood for, and took to oppose him no matter what.

    • @adrianaxelssonpersson2456
      @adrianaxelssonpersson2456 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      ​​@@vicolin6126I only asked because it wasn't mentioned in the video.

  • @vicolin6126
    @vicolin6126 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Not too sure if the Soviet Union would even be very keen on attacking Sweden in this timeline. They wanted to retake "lost territories" in WW2, which in our timeline includes Finland. However, in this scenario, Finland was never ceded to Russia, therfore there would have been no claim. They again, the Soviets were d***s, so could have happened anyway. Honestly though, the Sweden in this scenario would be significantly stronger than Finland was in our timeline, so that could easily have been enough deterrence.

  • @FDNY101202
    @FDNY101202 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    What if Poland and Czechoslovakia allied after seeing the German buildup of the 30s? Ignoring the Munich agreement.

  • @scandinavianmapping5916
    @scandinavianmapping5916 วันที่ผ่านมา

    As a swede i accept this message

  • @donutmp4803
    @donutmp4803 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    could you do your take on a what if the USA was more expansionist or someting to the sort?

  • @macjonte
    @macjonte วันที่ผ่านมา

    Naa. Even though being a Swede, I’m happy this didn’t turn out. We need equality in the Nordic region and I like the idea of a Nordic krona so it will be a monetary union instead of five different currencies.

  • @rinokumera5907
    @rinokumera5907 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Go Sweden 🇸🇪

  • @RADSIKEGORILLAGEM-pz5qr
    @RADSIKEGORILLAGEM-pz5qr วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Wow

  • @kekkoinen
    @kekkoinen วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Finland will never forgive your crimes

  • @notocommunism1428
    @notocommunism1428 วันที่ผ่านมา

    yes

  • @lohtupottu
    @lohtupottu วันที่ผ่านมา

    Now do the opposite: what if Sweden didn't exist?

  • @startitaliano3366
    @startitaliano3366 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    I really like This swedish borders

  • @genralvilola7489
    @genralvilola7489 วันที่ผ่านมา

    0:34 map is wrong

  • @fenrirthedreadwolf3448
    @fenrirthedreadwolf3448 วันที่ผ่านมา

    oi so i would argue that any Norwegian Nationalism movment at in this timeperiod would include Island and the feros and would also try to go for greenland tho i dought the danes would a agree with the latter. the Nationalism would bace its claim on the old Kingdom that did incude all these Regions. tho i dont know if it would be popular in Island or the Feros

  • @im_theodore
    @im_theodore วันที่ผ่านมา

    Scandinavia video #2424661

  • @Thai_countryball
    @Thai_countryball วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Worst timeline

  • @TheRavenLord1
    @TheRavenLord1 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Let’s be real, Finland is just the Baltic Sea. Estonia, Sweden, Russia, Japan, and the other countries there made it up😂