Fives Build Muscle Better | Starting Strength Network Previews
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2023
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Sir, you misspelled “Fahves”
Me doing fives on sit ups and lateral raises
Mark is the Dave Ramsay of training. Youre gonna get stronger and bigger following his really simple advice. Its not optimal after awhile, but he'll keep saying it is. But im super grateful for him nonetheless
That's why I only do singles, because 5s don't have the ability to cause you to produce as much force as singles.
As a 40 plus years lifter with a Masters Degree in Exercise Physiology I can you tell 2 things. Mark and his guys are 100% correct and These labs and their “research” are so poorly designed and executed that you cannot take them seriously.
Started with 5x5, added 95lbs to my bench, 125lbs to my squat, 175lbs to my deadlift and 45lbs to my press. I’ve since started going to 3x5 instead of 5x5. I find that doing 5sets made me lift lighter than when doing 3sets of 5.
Rip doesn’t think higher reps are useful on the main lifts, but I’d argue that if you slow down your progress, you make greater strength and muscle gains in the long term and allow your connective tissues time to adapt to new loads. I did the program, and beat the shit out of my body in the process. I’d recommend to a late novice, Do 3x5 with 225 on the bench today, next time add a rep. Do 2x5, 1x6, then add another rep next time, 1x5, 2x6, then 3x6, then 2x6, 1x7. Keep going up until 3x10, if you don’t hit failure, bump the weight up to 230 next time and start back at 3x5. It will feel light and your work capacity has gone up. You can keep the same weight on the bar for a month, build more muscle and then reset at a higher load. Why rush the process? Got to get to advanced ASAP or something? Why not throw in some laterals after OHP or cable flys after Bench? Take a set to failure, rest a few seconds, go to failure again, rest, go again. It literally takes 2 minutes and you’re working the muscle through a different movement pattern. You progress the reps when you can’t progress the weight. I’m not saying don’t do the program, but stretching it out and filling in the gaps with isolations is smart. Once you’ve done 3x5 for a couple months, the repeated bout effect kicks in and you don’t even feel anything in the muscle anymore. Soreness goes away. The only thing I get from 3x5 anymore is fatigue. I’ve gotten up to 225 3x5 OHP, 315 Bench, 405 Squat, 455 Deadlift, at 5’5, 225 lb bodyweight at 47 years old, before you call me a “pussy” and say I didn’t do the program. Even keeping a top set of 5 and doing back off sets of 6-8, 8-10 at 90 and 80% of your set of 5 is sure to cause muscle growth, while maintains base strength.
The man with the 185 pound deadlift can definitely just add weight with sets of five for a long time. But the man with a 400 pound deadlift will likely get to a 500 pound deadlift quicker by periodising his training. Hypertrophy for the back with higher reps, then increase the weight and do sets of, say, 5. Linear progression is excellent for beginners, hence, "Starting Strength" But once you're no longer a beginner, you should no longer use beginner techniques.
d John needs to quit lol
The big problem I had with this is you started out by throwing all the research on hypertrophy that doesn’t support your position as “flawed” without any evidence to back up that claim other than anecdotal evidence
The photo of Bre taped to the chair had me rolling.
I am an old man, 72 years old, and have been lifting for seven and a half years. Somewhere along the way, your strength gains are going to plateau, as mine have. I worked in the 5 rep range for a good while. It became problematic on a few lifts. The overhead press was making my shoulders sore. Squatting and deadlifting became mentally daunting when you are more or less at your strength potential. My ceiling was I could do 3 sets of 5 reps with 305# squatting to good depth. With 315#, I might get 5 on the first set, but certainly only 4 in a second or third set. I dreaded leg day.
My personal, lived experience is a mix of "high volume", say 5 sets of anything from 5-8 reps, and "high intensity,", say 3 sets of anything from 2-5 reps, where the weight is tuned such that the last rep of the last set is close to failure, is useful. In the Starting Strength parlance I am somewhere between a novice and an intermediate. Maybe an early-stage intermediate (after about 18 months of lifting). If I alternate between high volume and high intensity from session to session or week to week, I make better progress than if I just train 5's. I think three (or four or five, whatever) sets of 5's make a lot of when you are starting out. But by the time you're six months in, some volume work will help keep you from getting stuck. Or, at least it helped me personally.
@startingstrength would it be possible to make a long clip or podcast going more into detail of Rip's training and progression before the SS coaching/training method began to be developed. Really interested to hear more on this if possible . Thanks 🙏
Always love the way Mark explains!
Well said, thanks for the info
I would add that several powerlifters who switched to bodybuilding and seemingly made “gains” by doing higher rep “hypertrophy work” are on incredible amounts of PEDs and can tolerate / respond / use the novelty impact of the higher reps. And they are still lifting very heavy. Remember Ronnie doing 12-15 reps of bench press with 200 lb dumbbells? Rip is dead on balls accurate here ESPECIALLY if you are natural.
Sets of 5’s vs sets of 10’s very very interesting. I love the quality of sound btw. Every video sounds so crisp and clear. This was a very informative video and I’m looking forward to implementing it.
Currently reading Ripp's book "mean old Mr gravity", and i'm laughing.my.ass.off. It's so good, gotta love the pink ones humor....
I like sets of 5 for some compound movements, but do higher reps for smaller movements or exercises that I have a hard time maintaining form on. Mainly do 5 rep sets for incline and weighted chins.