My 13th great grandmother up through the House of Neville line. Amazing to learn more details about her life. Her fight is still alive today within ME! Thanks for the info! ***LOVE & LIGHT***
I may be wrong, but I think that some historical fiction refers to Bess Holland as the Duke's laundress. Such a description is meant to show Norfolk's poor taste and judgement. I often wondered how a laundress, no matter how beautiful, could have caused such a scandal. As you point out, Bess Holland probably had a higher status than laundress.
Very interesting, I was looking at the family tree and noticed I descend through this couple's gg grandaughter Elizabeth Howard, who married William Knowllys, the son of Catherine Carey, Mary Boleyn's daughter.
"A woman who couldn't find her agency?" What does that mean? I can kind of figure that out but if you're going to talk in 16th century jargon, could you explain what you mean 'cause it's very confusing. Thank you.
I wonder why she looked for solace in Henry VIII who beheaded a few of his wives! That doesn't sound like a good decision. I would've been very fearful of him. What is the name of the manor house in Virginia you mentioned. I didn't see the name of it in the show more section. Could you please type it out for me? Thank you for your interesting website. I just discovered you!
Are you saying that some person physically sat on her chest until she bled? Her husband sounds like a jerk but it seems a bit extreme. Those people had no compassion .
In fairness that's just her allegation, don't think there were witnesses. Norfolk denied the allegations apparently. With marriages how do you know who to believe even when you personally know both parties? when it comes to people from 400 years ago, we just have no way of knowing. Maybe her husband was a jerk, maybe she was making stuff up because they hated each other.
@@hyperactivehyperbole I doubt Cromwell cared whether she was lying or not. As a woman I find it slightly offensive when men attempting go be "feminist" basically say 'always believe a woman, she's too stupid and childlike to lie'. Just silly. Also note the duchess refused to divorce her husband even though he offered her large amounts of money and land if she would. I think that tends to somewhat undermine her credibility as a terrified battered wife, don't you.
@@hteysko Well fair enough I suppose, but still - when you're reporting on real people don't you feel a sense of obligation to them and your audience to give a complete outline of the facts? The Duke's side of the story is easy to find - it's quoted in part on Wikipedia. Wouldn't it be fair and actually very interesting to look into the whole story and invite people to make up their own minds? It's your channel though and I don't want to dictate! Just offering a pov 🙂
I clicked on this video to hear Elizabeth’s story, so I’m perfectly happy only hearing her side of the marriage story. There’s a lot more content on Thomas Howard as it is, but I’ve never seen a detailed video on his wife. So I’m looking forward to hearing her story and this channel is very good at story telling xxx
History tells the male side by default-if the men married for money or were abusive or neglectful or cheaters, it was glossed over and excused whether they were responsible providers or money grubbing leeches or spendthrifts or whatever. Besides rumor, the marriage itself wasn’t considered important-just the influence and money and children it resulted in-and it was the man’s court influence and lands and deeds that made history.
Wait, she refused to attend whose coronation? It's very hard for me to keep up with you because you talk very fast and your words are slurred. If you can speak a whole lot slower because English is my first language and I'm American like you, but I have a really hard time hearing every word you're saying 'cause you're talking so fast and I can only imagine someone whose first language isn't English what they are going through. Please slow down and thank you!
"Resilience and Defiance"...I like her style.
Thomas also beat Elizabeth physically after she said something about Bess Holland that drove him nuts. That man was never one of my favorites.
Looking forward to watching this upload. Many thanks xxx
I know Agecroft Hall well. I used to live in Richmond and they have a Shakespeare festival there every year. I may need to make a trip home that week.
We'd love to have you! Stay tuned for all the info!
My 13th great grandmother up through the House of Neville line. Amazing to learn more details about her life. Her fight is still alive today within ME! Thanks for the info! ***LOVE & LIGHT***
Thank you Heather, poor, poor woman. We have nothing to complain about these days do we? 🙏🙏🙏🙏👵🇦🇺
Yet we find ways to mess it up.
What world do you live in and how do I get a ticket there?
The Duke was a CREEP! I can't stand him. Poor Elizabeth!😢😮
What does "pinnacled me" mean? Could you please explain what all of these 16th century terms mean? I feel in the dark!
Finally, the truth and very well told
I may be wrong, but I think that some historical fiction refers to Bess Holland as the Duke's laundress. Such a description is meant to show Norfolk's poor taste and judgement. I often wondered how a laundress, no matter how beautiful, could have caused such a scandal. As you point out, Bess Holland probably had a higher status than laundress.
Lizzie Stafford is one of my favorites!
Very interesting, I was looking at the family tree and noticed I descend through this couple's gg grandaughter Elizabeth Howard, who married William Knowllys, the son of Catherine Carey, Mary Boleyn's daughter.
"A woman who couldn't find her agency?" What does that mean? I can kind of figure that out but if you're going to talk in 16th century jargon, could you explain what you mean 'cause it's very confusing. Thank you.
I wonder why she looked for solace in Henry VIII who beheaded a few of his wives! That doesn't sound like a good decision. I would've been very fearful of him. What is the name of the manor house in Virginia you mentioned. I didn't see the name of it in the show more section. Could you please type it out for me? Thank you for your interesting website. I just discovered you!
Ok but where is the info for tudorcon 2024 online?
I never heard of someone spitting up blood just because they were sat on. That doesn't seem right to me.
It's hilarious to me, a Brit, that a Tudor house has been resited to America and Americans hold a Tudor con there. 'Carry on Henry', or what?
Her daughter was my 4th cousin, 14 generations ago
Are you saying that some person physically sat on her chest until she bled? Her husband sounds like a jerk but it seems a bit extreme. Those people had no compassion .
In fairness that's just her allegation, don't think there were witnesses. Norfolk denied the allegations apparently. With marriages how do you know who to believe even when you personally know both parties? when it comes to people from 400 years ago, we just have no way of knowing. Maybe her husband was a jerk, maybe she was making stuff up because they hated each other.
One does not simply lie to Thomas Cromwell.
@@hyperactivehyperbole That is a good point.
@@catteb4368 At first I thought she was speaking figuratively. I replayed it and I just needed confirmation.
@@hyperactivehyperbole I doubt Cromwell cared whether she was lying or not. As a woman I find it slightly offensive when men attempting go be "feminist" basically say 'always believe a woman, she's too stupid and childlike to lie'. Just silly.
Also note the duchess refused to divorce her husband even though he offered her large amounts of money and land if she would. I think that tends to somewhat undermine her credibility as a terrified battered wife, don't you.
As a historian you really ought to do due diligence and tell BOTH sides of this marriage story so people can make up their own minds, no?
That's the beauty of not being a historian. I'm a story teller who enjoys history. :)
@@hteysko Well fair enough I suppose, but still - when you're reporting on real people don't you feel a sense of obligation to them and your audience to give a complete outline of the facts? The Duke's side of the story is easy to find - it's quoted in part on Wikipedia. Wouldn't it be fair and actually very interesting to look into the whole story and invite people to make up their own minds?
It's your channel though and I don't want to dictate! Just offering a pov 🙂
I clicked on this video to hear Elizabeth’s story, so I’m perfectly happy only hearing her side of the marriage story. There’s a lot more content on Thomas Howard as it is, but I’ve never seen a detailed video on his wife. So I’m looking forward to hearing her story and this channel is very good at story telling xxx
History tells the male side by default-if the men married for money or were abusive or neglectful or cheaters, it was glossed over and excused whether they were responsible providers or money grubbing leeches or spendthrifts or whatever.
Besides rumor, the marriage itself wasn’t considered important-just the influence and money and children it resulted in-and it was the man’s court influence and lands and deeds that made history.
If this is a true likeness she is so like Henry VIII
It took a long time for the actual info part to begin. I lost interest and wandered off…😊
WHY DONT YOU GET ON WITH IT? INTRO, INTRO, INTRO, INTRO..... ADVERTISING, ADVERTISING, ADVERTISING.
BORED STIFF NOT GOING TO LISTEN ANY FURTHER.
Wait, she refused to attend whose coronation? It's very hard for me to keep up with you because you talk very fast and your words are slurred. If you can speak a whole lot slower because English is my first language and I'm American like you, but I have a really hard time hearing every word you're saying 'cause you're talking so fast and I can only imagine someone whose first language isn't English what they are going through. Please slow down and thank you!