I am a very regular, TH-cam listener, while I work. But I never comment, but I simply must say that after reading through these comments, I feel less alone than I have in a long time. Amazing how so many little churches in anywhere USA so many little people were fighting battles that were so monumental to them. Oh how the battle belongs to Him. I am so grateful to God for His conviction in all of you. Reading through these comments, I would love to meet with all of you to share in your story, and for you to share in mine. God wins. We must honor Christ. Peace to you all.
Failing to “see around the corner” is not a character flaw _per se,_ but is most certainly an egregious *discernment blunder.* It doesn’t matter how good a speaker, or how faithful a ministry one has had (in the absence of persecution); when the chips are down and the captain blunders, a good commander shuffles him off to serve in a less influential role. You can’t keep your head when the shelling starts, so we’ll put you in a position where you don’t lead other through the shelling. You either have it or you don’t… at least that’s what 3 combat tours taught me. The last three years were just a foretaste of real Persecution, so the ones who folded should be marked on not relied upon for the next round. You’re welcome to the feast and we value your contribution, but when the bullets are flying, I won’t be asking you you to watch my six. I was escorted off campus by police from a public university, I was forced to seek alternative employment away from the hospital I worked, and I had to find a new church due to compromised doctrine to accommodate social pressures… not to mention the daily harassment from the everyday people at the grocery store and gas station for not flying the flag of fear on my face. Resistance was and is possible, but at a cost. Be prepared to pay the price or prepare to compromise into oblivion.
@@manager0175 it does, actually. Throughout the pandemic, every single person was given the choice to comply with the fear mongering or resist at their own peril. Those who complied, _especially if they violated their conscience in doing so_ are, in fact, the weaker brother or sister in the faith by definition. It is a direct measure of both their commitment and their faith.
@@manager0175but can you apologize for being wrong and congratulate people who had the discernment to see through the bluster? That is strong faith and recognizing another person’s gift of discernment is a good thing.
@@manager0175 I think you need to better understand the nature of Christian discernment. Trephination, leaches, lobotomies and child sacrifice were, at one point or another “best available medical guidance”. Masks, social distancing and the vaccines have all been shown to have had no effect on the spread and propagation of the illness, according to the most recent “best available medical guidance”. So, it would seem that the Christians who stuck to their convictions have since been vindicated; and the Christians who compromised have since been repudiated.
@@DaBigArmyDude wait, so do you trust the “best available medical science” or not?? Sounds like you trust it if it validates your anti-mask position, but not if it doesn’t?
@@manager0175 it does, actually. Leeches, trephination, and abhorrent offerings to Moloch and Baal were the “best medical guidance” of the time. Yet one would have been wise, prudent and righteous to reject such “solutions”. The same rings true for the last public health crisis, according to some contemporary “best medical guidance”. So, it would seem blindly following the “leaders” of our age does not abrogate ones culpability nor responsiblity. Whereas a keen and wise sense of discernment vindicates those who rejected such notions. And by this we may measure one’s faithfulness: did they comply, eschewing both discernment and wisdom (and even violating their conscience) and go along with the masses? Or did they stand, often alone, convicted by their conscience to stand against the foolishness that was the propagated by the experts, and now stand vindicated?
My friend and pastor is one of the stalwart ones. A lot of folks don’t like him because of his determination to follow the Word of God,living and written. There are many like him, pretty much unsung, as is proper. I wish to thank the Lord for such as these. I pray there will be more. Your words are timely. We’re working on keeping the bruised and battered Body hole and healing.
Very strange. So Doug's issue of issues, his hill that he will die on, is whether a pastor would wear a mask during a pandemic? Or close his church during a pandemic? And someone wanting to reconcile has to "confess his sin" of following the science? I am reminded that Billy Sundy kept on holding revival crusades during the the 1918 "Spanish" flu pandemic. He kept right on holding church until 4 people died while the crusade was going on. For Doug to use wearing masks, and holding church during a pandemic as the keystone of his "ministry" and his support for T***p is (what Wm F Buckely jr would have called) a breath-taking-non-sequitur. Doug is following the Great Late Planet Earth model (remember Hal Lindsey? By 1988, the USSR would invade Israel, Jesus would come back in the clouds, and restore His kingdom on earth? Now Hal is on his fourth wife. Yeah, that guy.) Of scaring folks by shouting "we are under siege!" "persecution is coming!" and "we need revival!" It is a very old marketing and sales ploy. Create a crisis and tell everyone you are the only one that has the answer.
I acknowledge the word to me. Though hurt and angered by my former pastor's actions vaguely reminiscent of a certain Vidkun Quisling, I need to forgive him, and if providence or chance should throw us together, to love him as one whom Christ loves. Thanks Doug!
I agree with A.D. Robles who said let's receive those who have repented (if they indeed did) but they can't go straight into leadership positions. Nor should they seek to. They need to be ok with not being shot-callers. That's where I stand too.
Knowledge, wisdom & discretion come from a leader's mouth; this is rarely seen in the past 25+ years and it's gotten progressively worse imo. The inability to see how #history repeats when a civilization CLEARLY departs from God's Word is a sign of incompetence or worse. Kindly admit it, get off the dang stage and submit to those that display Knowledge, wisdom & discernment, entirely based on God's Word. For those lacking in discernment, just shut up, lol. The long list of Christian martyrs these past thousands of years agree with me (I think, lol)
Yes. "Don't take the bait" and such videos are examples of some of the most responsible Christianity I've seen, and the reason i started paying attention to a little town named Moscow. Keep flipping them tables and pasting those stickers , respectfully J
You said: "Keep flipping them tables and pasting those stickers , respectfully J". I am sure Doug will keep selling you everything you need to flip tables and paste stickers. After all, that is what it is all about. Je$u$ $ave$!
I get where you’re going and I have, as Jesus commanded, forgiven them. On the other hand, they have not, as Jesus also commanded, apologized for what they have done. (Matthew 5:23-24) I do not trust these people, regardless of what they have done before, and tell others not to trust them. If a person, especially a pastor, is unwilling to publicly apologize for their wrongdoing then I don’t trust them and won’t until they do. I’ve been down this road too many times.
@@JW-tg1nn Some if these pastors statements were directly used against members of the military (including me) as I was fighting for my career during the vaccine mandates. My Calvinist Baptist chaplain used quotes from church leaders in order to belittle my convictions. No apparent consideration was given to them about matters of conscience related to Romans 14 or 1 Corinthians 8. These leaders allowed themselves to be used as a bludgeon by the government against the consciences of the brethren. Many of them also closed their churches or required masks for worship. So, yes, I think apologies are in order.
Truly well said. Forgiveness is and should be abundantly available for all those who repent. Repent in the hebrew word sense to turn back from their ways. Thats the forgiveness that the Bible teaches and preaches.
Carthage, where I was educated. College, that is. I Dropped Out in 2000, after circulating my momentary addition to their ethics curriculum, live, in class, without permission. They had omitted all biblical stances and placed a rabid atheist in charge of their ethics courses. Peter Singer territory. But they are ELCA affiliated. Such magnanimous accountability. Except to the Bible AND it's stances, wording, history.
Why is it that Laodicea always comes to mind with this, now three year long topic? “Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline. Therefore be zealous and repent.” Revelation 3:19
When we sin, we fall short, and need to repent and ask forgiveness. So do the many tyrants that closed doors, demended masks, and distancing, and then accused the unvaxxed of being selfish rebels for not wanting to be a guinea pig. Causing death to family, friends, fellow church men. I wait patiently for any of the to repent...but, as you say, I might have missed out on that. God bless you, thank you, for a measured long view.
(6:44) _There is a difference between wanting to see an acknowledgment of error and wanting to make someone crawl_ _Acknowledgement of error is all about restoration of relationship; making things right_ _Making someone crawl is all about domineering and trying to become great in the Kingdom by carnal means_ -Doug Wilson > We have to vigilant of our own temptation to 'cancel' and to instead practice the virtue of forgiveness at the point of acknowledgment of error.
@@manager0175 We should find those who used the 'let a crisis go to waste' opportunity to trial run shutting down churches then ensure that they are removed and will never again hold political office. ex: Newsolini
@@manager0175 There's no political party that is 100% resolute. _The condition upon which the Lord hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt_ -John Philpot Curran
@@dragonhold4 Curran died in 1817. That age is long gone. We are better off without it. What's next? Are we going to believe the Earth is at he center of the solar system? That our solar system is the only one in this galaxy? That this galaxy is the only one in the universe? Grow up in your faith. The sooner you do, the sooner you will set aside Doug and his merry minions.
I thank God that I had access in person to Apologia church with Jeff Durbin's leadership at the pulpit throughout that insanity. The church we were attending had a leftist takeover and booted the strong hearted pastor we loved. He did not re-emerge till a year later and we had already moved onto Apologia.
As one who basically was pushed out and chastised for standing on truth, I agree BUT if there is no repentance or even a willingness to admit they blew it, then they are shepherds who did not guard their sheep. Jesus asked Peter 3 times to care for His sheep. Peter took responsibility and even died for this. Do you really believe any of these pastors would die for their flock? 🤔
I went to prison a Raging Romanist. I came out a Cage Stage Calvinist. I went back to prison a humbled disgrace. I now know the Severity and Grace of the Lord. That makes me a thoroughly equipped Christian.
Satan's sifting has a way of humbling you. I'm speaking from present experience. If we come out on the other side with our faith still intact, let God be praised for His glorious grace.
Jesus is Lord!! I thank the Lord for the faithful men in ministry today, and the faithful men of the future (which may include unfaithful men of the present just as our Lord did with Peter!).
@aallen5256 certainly the commenter above cannot feel very loved by your question. Would it not be more loving just to go along with what they're saying?
If they apologize, restoration must come quickly. If they, like Piper and now Begg, ignore their offense, condemnation must come down. Hard. The church, nation and world have sunk too far to countenance foolishness.
@@benjaminmoelker8915 Piper communicated (10/22/2020) that Trump disdain was more important than laws protecting freedom and life. He got his way; Biden was elected. He said horrible things about Trump. He has never said one word against Biden. Not one.
@@benjaminmoelker8915 By Robert A.J. Gagnon In the Book of Judges, Yahweh would regularly hand Israel over to its enemies for forsaking him for the Canaanite storm god Baal Hadad and the mother goddess Asherah. Here we have evangelicals -- like John Piper, Tim Keller, and other Never-Trump advocates connected with The Gospel Coalition or the Southern Baptist Ethics and "Religious Liberty" Commission, the Christianity Today CEO Timothy Dalrymple and former chief editor Mark Galli, and of course David French -- handing us over to our enemies to face permanent loss of freedoms and our educational institutions. Irony is a beautiful thing when it doesn't hurt so much. And it was all preventable, as we can see from the closeness of the election. Good people making a foolish choice and cloaking it in virtue. The cancel culture will now be officially ensconced in the White House, replete with compulsory speech mandates. Add to these devastating consequences promotion of the culture of death, threats to employment and the closing off of certain professions to Christians, threats to parental rights with regard to one's "LGBTQ" identified children, and threats to the church (tax-exempt status, use of buildings for "LGBTQ" promotion). Some conservative Catholic leaders (and non-Catholics like Rod Dreher) who know how devastating the consequences of a Biden-Harris victory would be for free speech and the free exercise of religion, not to mention for pro-life policies and judicial appointments, muddied the waters by denying that there was a moral imperative to cast an effective vote against Biden-Harris, a complete inconsistency once they had acknowledged that faithful Catholics could not vote for Biden-Harris. Not as damaging as the Never-Trumpers but far from helpful at an "all hands on deck" moment of American history. And for what? To dump a President who was pro-life, fighting for the free exercise of religion and free speech, thwarting the worst bill in over a century (maybe ever; the "Equality Act"), helping African Americans in several policy moves, helping American blue-collar workers by standing against illegal immigration, presiding till COVID over the lowest unemployment rate in half a century and making a strong comeback in the economy in the last few months, and making infinitely better judicial nominations and appointments than we could ever hope for from Biden-Harris (the most recent being within the last 2 weeks before the election). A President, mind you, who hasn't been promoting sexual immorality in his policies or shown to be engaging in such behavior for over 12 years. All for remarks, most of which are distorted (like the perpetual lie about Charlottesville), which have been shown to have zero negative policy consequences. And these Never-Trumpers no longer had the excuse of saying that Trump won't keep his campaign promises. Plus he had a godly vice president and associated himself with many godly people, while Biden picks as Vice President a candidate who is the furthest left in the Dem Party and hates anyone who doesn't support abortion or the whole "LGBTQ" agenda. Biden and Harris, and their ilk, are people of truly bad character, with significant evidence of corruption. They made it possible for a Party to win whose twin idols are abortion and "LGBTQ" coercive law. A Party that fueled destruction of property and violence to encourage racial division and animosity, a Party that insists that people repent of the evil of "whiteness" and view American history as little more than an experiment of virulent racism. These Christian leaders responded out of their left-wing cultural or geographical context that treated Trump as evil's chief minion. They felt their reputation, ministry, or academic position under siege for any support of Trump. So they found shelter in their Never-Trumpism. They used excuses like, "It's going to happen at some time in the future anyway," never stopping to think that another four years of a Trump presidency would likely bear great fruit for judicial appointments whose salutary effect for the nation would continue long after Trump was gone. These Never-Trumpers even acted at a time when polls were indicating that the Republicans would lose the Senate (at the time of this post, that is still possible when one subtracts RINO "Republicans" from the Republican tally), which would have given Dems control of both branches of Congress as well as the White House. This is the greatest and most damaging political folly in my lifetime. Unfortunately, we all have to pay for this betrayal for the rest of our lives.
You said: Point(s) well taken and yes no one is immune...the mass gaslighting of late an example". Since 2015, no one has gaslighted and grifted more than T***p.
Forgiveness is never optional. It is imperative that we forgive as Christ forgave us (Eph 4:32). Forgiveness does not mean that the individual is repentant, and it does not mean that we have to continue on in a way that foolishly acts as if the error never happened. The most difficult decision isn't whether to forgive, because forgiveness is commanded, but how to proceed when the repentance of failed leaders is in question and their failures impact their ministries. In Acts 15:36-41, Paul and Barnabas had a disagreement over whether to take John Mark back on their subsequent missionary journeys. John Mark had previously abandoned Paul and Barnabas at Pamphylia. Their disagreement over John Mark was so harsh that they parted ways. A similar parting of ways may be in order in various evangelical circles. In the same manner as Paul and Barnabas, whether you choose to part ways to find more dependable missionary companions or remain with the leadership that previously failed you in hope that they are genuinely repentant, you must forgive all who are involved and continue the work of faithful Gospel ministry.
"It is imperative that we forgive as Christ forgave us (Eph 4:32). Forgiveness does not mean that the individual is repentant" Does Christ forgive the unrepentant?
@@OscarSchneegans Our forgiveness of others, as required by God, is not dependent on their repentance. As far as salvation is concerned, of course those who Christ calls, he calls to repent and believe. However, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Our forgiveness of others should be a reflection of how God has forgiven us.
@@paulbrown6491Christ died for us while we were still sinners, yet we are not forgiven until we have repented and trusted in Him. If we are to “reflect how God has forgiven us” then the requirement for repentance must be considered. Our attitude should be that of the Prodigal Son’s father. Waiting on the door step in anticipation, presumably praying for the return of a repentant son, ready to forgive in a surprising way and restore him at the moment or repentance.
@OscarSchneegans From the cross, He prayed, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do." Was Jesus forgiving unrepentant sinners? Or does repentance imply a knowledge that what one is doing is wrong? A serious question - not being contentious.
I think you left out a category: Pharisees. They were willing to disagree with the Sadducees and weren't the ones who were totally in bed with Rome, but in the final analysis they were more interested in their places of honor. Jesus had some of his harshest words for them. There is a huge difference between a wobbling Peter and a Pharisee who's only on our side to have their place of honor and respectful greeting (Matthew 23). It's not an easy task, but it seems important to discern between those.
Albert Mohler praised the vaccine and wrote "In terms of technology, it hearkens back to the Apollo moon mission...This is the first step in bringing an end to the COVID-19 pandemic in America-and it was achieved in an unprecedented time frame with demonstrable results."
So glad to see Evangelicals reconnect with the Church's long and glorious history. Christianity did not begin in 1611 with the King James' Bible, nor in 1901 with the Topeka Revival. It started circa. 30 A.D. with the Theophany of our Lord. A lot has happened since then! 🎉🎉🎉
@@pj_ytmt-123an appearance of God in the Old Testament/preincarnation. Since no one has seen the father, theophany and Christophanies are essentially synonymous. The appearance of Christ in his incarnation is therefore simply "his incarnation," ir "his coming in the flesh," Not a theophany. At any rate the incarnation was certainly not the first theophany, which your comment implied
@cosmictreason2242 Christianity - the New Covenant between God and His people Israel - began with the baptism of the Lord in the River Jordan: "And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him." (Lk. 9:35)
Anyone else even slightly confused about just what Pastor Wilson is talking about? Not the application, but who did what to whom? Just me? Fair enough.
@@JW-tg1nn But he's saying that's not Donatism. Well it's not. It's legalism. Ever since Covid I started using hand sanitizer all the time. Do I need to repent? To get back into whose good graces? I also wear a mask on a plane now so I don't get a virus. I think it's a good idea. But I'm the only one usually.
@@JW-tg1nnMaybe I need to repent of self righteousness. But this is one of the most idiotic things I've seen I have to say it because that's what I see. It's cultish and weird.
I agree with @dabigarmydude. Nobody is saying these men can’t return, but why is it necessary for them to return and be in charge? Are we out of space in the pews? And one more point: Peter may have failed, but it was a failure based on sincere weakness and fear… completely understandable, but this comparison to Peters situation is unfair. Peter did NOT take C19 funding that came with a compliance package, and part of that package was that he would keep it secret on pain of having to pay back the money, and maybe even an oath to the WHO. Peter did not have a church board who all agreed, and who to this day still keep that secret while asking to have their credibility returned. These men did not fail out fear or ignorance. They took big checks and signed “documents of understanding.” Which is all still forgivable, but to be fair to Peter: He would never have done that.
Hear this, you elders; give ear, all inhabitants of the land! Has such a thing happened in your days, or in the days of your fathers? Tell your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children to another generation. What the cutting locust left, the swarming locust has eaten. What the swarming locust left, the hopping locust has eaten, and what the hopping locust left, the destroying locust has eaten. Awake, you drunkards, and weep, and wail, all you drinkers of wine, because of the sweet wine, for it is cut off from your mouth. For a nation has come up against my land, powerful and beyond number; its teeth are lions' teeth, and it has the fangs of a lioness. It has laid waste my vine and splintered my fig tree; it has stripped off their bark and thrown it down; their branches are made white. Lament like a virgin wearing sackcloth for the bridegroom of her youth. The grain offering and the drink offering are cut off from the house of the Lord. The priests mourn, the ministers of the Lord. The fields are destroyed, the ground mourns, because the grain is destroyed, the wine dries up, the oil languishes. Be ashamed, O tillers of the soil; wail, O vinedressers, for the wheat and the barley, because the harvest of the field has perished. The vine dries up; the fig tree languishes. Pomegranate, palm, and apple, all the trees of the field are dried up, and gladness dries up from the children of man. Put on sackcloth and lament, O priests; wail, O ministers of the altar. Go in, pass the night in sackcloth, O ministers of my God! Because grain offering and drink offering are withheld from the house of your God. Consecrate a fast; call a solemn assembly. Gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land to the house of the Lord your God, and cry out to the Lord. Alas for the day! For the day of the Lord is near, and as destruction from the Almighty it comes. Is not the food cut off before our eyes, joy and gladness from the house of our God? The seed shrivels under the clods; the storehouses are desolate; the granaries are torn down because the grain has dried up. How the beasts groan! The herds of cattle are perplexed because there is no pasture for them; even the flocks of sheep suffer. To you, O Lord, I call. For fire has devoured the pastures of the wilderness, and flame has burned all the trees of the field. Even the beasts of the field pant for you because the water brooks are dried up, and fire has devoured the pastures of the wilderness.
By evengelical leaders who flaked you must mean Tim Challies. Masked our congregation at grace fellowship here in Toronto that lead me to leave. It was at such a time in my life that I needed the church, and when pesented with the choice to sign up but only be picked 1 out of 10 in attendence wa a hard choice, feeling that i could be taking from someone else who was in much more need then myself. Once restrictions lightened, we wernt allowed to sing or praise God inside and would stand in groups outside, maskes singing. What a joke this was. A shameful act at least. At such a time where I was so dependent on the church for fellowship, was denied under the giuse of Romans 13. Church bending rheir knee to ceaser. A sad example of a leader. Tim challies blogged about how he was wrong, and so ill forgive him, but i wont forget.
Well said, but those who wavered need to accept especially from pew sitters like me, when we demand they apologize for having been wrong. To simply pretend it didn't happen is NOT good enough. There must be public confession of sin from those leaders, not an apology for being wrong or short sighted. As to any Church that closed, especially in states like my Florida, where there was a declaration that Churches could stay open; which now puts physical attendance as a must APOLOGIZE. DO NOT QUOTE PROTO NEHEMIAH WHO CHANGED GOD'S WORD TO SUIT HIS POLITICAL NEEDS ABOUT REBUILDING. You closed the physical building when the local Governor expressly said you could keep it open and got the funds from Caesar? You have PROVEN you don't believe physical attendance is important enough for me to care whatever your excuses are. You're now on my optional list. Doug Wilson gives good advice here. Well, I would rather listen to him, White and McAtthur online than the local appointed Bishops. This Latin Latian refuses the doctrine of the Nico-latians. There's salvation outside the visible Church and you'd be surprised how large the invisible one has grown. Anyway, I rather continue learning the original languages so I can get past Traitore Traductore. See Gen 1:27 in the Hebrew for the words translated male and female. Even Wilson and McAtthur dare not say it, nor demand head covered women. Wearing pants, fine, uncovered head, not allowed.
You said: "when we demand they apologize for having been wrong. To simply pretend it didn't happen is NOT good enough. There must be public confession of sin from those leaders, not an apology for being wrong or short sighted." The problem is, and was, WE WERE NOT WRONG. Masking and restricting public gatherings helped stop the spread of COVID-19. We have nothing to repent of. We were seeing the virus ravage our nursing homes and assisted living facilities. We watched our ERs overrun with corpses. We watched the T***p administration fail in its responsibility to the nation, day after day, week after week, month after month.. For Doug (and the rest of the 'Christian nationalists') to use this as some sort of axe to grind, is shallow minded and misguided. Want to make things better? Go back to your churches, heal the sick, cast out demons, clothed the naked, house the homeless, feed the hungry, take care of orphans and widows, and make disciples. Or as Jesus said: "take the log from your own eye, before you take the speck from your brother's."
@@JW-tg1nn Agreed, I am wrong not to be participating in a local Church BUT, if you think accountability has anything to do with it, you're deluded. There's plenty of Churches, even solid Bible preaching ones, where you can easily sit in a pew year by year and never have ANYONE hold you accountable. In fact, it is the rarity when any accountability happens. That said, deal with the problem that I cited. The messenger (me) is corrupt, but the message is unanswered.
The *_world_* is a weird place?! This observation from a 21st Century Evangelical? And along that same line, I think the BLAH BLAH poster is singularly---even providentially---appropriate.
BTW I so want to move past this! But I just heard my former Pastor on radio still espousing race as the one sin we can’t seem to move past🙄amazing that I am in a church that is extremely diverse and our Pastor doesn’t have to bring it to our attention 🤔yes, racism along with elitism is a problem…we aren’t talking about that😯
Of course, nobody was made to wear the mask. They donned it willingly, not necessarily happily. If it was wrong to be asked, then it was wrong to comply. If or since they complied for whatever reason, they did it themselves, and shame on them if they now feel coerced. I never wore it, and refused to go along. Yeah, I paid a price, but stayed true to conscience, by the grace of God
Do they have a wife and kids known for following the Lord? I think when we can't even get the basics right, it's probably pointless to fit about things. The whole evangelical church is in danger of hell and the orthodox side has been there for a while already. Tradition, man worship, ethnocentrism, whatever you want to call it. It's been this way for a long time with a pass-the-baton cycle of musical chairs. One more man to follow. Any man, besides Christ. You get the Holy Spirit back to the leadership of the church and things will be good again, but it is not going to be through reason, great oration, or any other houses of straw. He can communicate. He can do miracles. He can show up. But until you let Him lead, He'll let you spin around in circles as the culture falls straight to hell. After all, He doesn't owe good to anyone.
Let's not talk about Ligon Duncan. I know solid Christians who are still loyal to Eric Mason. It boggles my mind when millions of atheists have abandoned and condemned the woke years ago.
I love that first glib sentence. It just rolls off your tongue as though your brain hasn't just shorted out. God is perfect. God expects perfection from himself and he is never disappointed. He also *_demands_* perfection of others. He knows he won't get it from us, so he has made provision for that certainty. You are abusing the word _perfectionist_ to make a point I think you know is untenable, but it kindasorta leads your listeners to the conclusions you want them to draw. Very dishonest. Then you careen into a discussion of leaders' flagrant disobedience which is done in the public eye and which calls for some sort of explanation, and from there you try to sound measured and insightful. You drag your readers through a convoluted explanation of how the intolerable can become understandable and therefore forgivable. Try giving some thought to your posts before uploading them.
@@DeaconBeanCooter Contemporary American Christianity is a shambles, a rude joke. There is an awful scale modeler on TH-cam. There is nothing he can do well. He can’t clean up parts he’s nipped off the sprue, he can’t glue, he can’t paint with either a brush or an airbrush, he can’t choose colors, he can’t follow instructions, he can’t read directions…everything he touches turns out to be an eye-catching blemish. But he is instructive---and especially entertaining---to listen to. It’s not just that he does everything wrong, it’s that he blathers on and on giving a prolonged explanation of his reasoning for doing what inevitably fails. He’s like these Evangelical Pests. In 1993 we got (from Eerdmans no less) _No Place for Truth, Or Whatever Happened to Evangelical Theology._ Nothing has changed and nothing will change. We’ll just get more conferences and more social media influencers.
The Trap of Donutism Lite is that one can consume a low-calorie donut but then proceed to eat more of them than you normally would of high-calorie donuts. In either case, Dunkin' Donuts, Krispy Kreme et al don't mind and value your business.
Ordering two of either Dunkin' Donuts' Signature Latte or Krispy Kreme's Ghirardelli Hot Chocolate. One single 7-Eleven Extra Large Coffee is close but still within reasonable limits, particularly for Blue-Collar workers who travel long distances to work.
Haha I think you misunderstood me. I meant what do the modern Donatists do too much of because it seems better than the regular variety? What is their “low calorie donut” that they need to exercise restraint with?
Oh, my bad. I see now that it was me who was misunderstanding you. I thought you were making a theologically significant analogy, but you were just making a pun. I feel dumb. 😄
Like you a lot Doug but did you slip in there the assertion that people who disagree with you on Modern Israel and Judaism have a “blind spot?” Perhaps they just see things a little differently. You are way too Zionist for me, but I don’t call it a blind spot; it’s just a (sharp) difference in opinion.
Why are you so certain that pastors who told members to wear masks were in the absolute wrong? What do they need to repent of? Respecting the civil magistrate?
For confirming to the ways of the world and instructing everyone to do the same. For yielding to the false god of humanism and its idol of safety. None of it was out of fear of God, it was for fear man, and the guilt and shame in which it way inflict. It all went down the way it was supposed to, revealing one’s view of God.
@@BrianLaceyAnderson-ur2co so at what point is submission to authority not to be done? I'm glad you have figured out that we are under a godless civil magistrate, but that doesn't mean the command to submit is nul and void. Submission begins when you disagree, not when you agree...
Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and render to God what is God’s. Y’all are clearly demonstrating what belongs to who. And your view of God. There absolutely has to be a point when a believer says no to the authority when the authority breaches that threshold. Where that threshold is, has to do with conviction. There were plenty of Hebrews willing to go along with king Neb’s statue, even though the submitted in their disagreement. Lots of people were misled by in 2020, I don’t want to shame anyone, but it was just a mistake with good intentions
@@BrianLaceyAnderson-ur2co absolutely, there is a point where we do not submit. But I'm asking as the above commenter pointed out, how is submitting to wearing a mask (even if it is scientifically disproven to help) a sin against God, or the equivalent to idolatry?? The state I lived in at that time did not bar us from gathering for worship.
Not submitting to the magistrate because he’s out of bounds. That’s Christ’s church, not theirs. Church leaders not requiring it , and I really mean this, because I just don’t see it in the character and ministry of Jesus in the gospel. The Bible just doesn’t lead me to believe that He would require that to attend His sermons. Overall, just the shaming or forcing or demanding in general in regards to everything in 2020 is what was such a huge red flag to me. I agree that many many people don’t see how it equates to bowing to a statue or conforming to the world. But I do. That is why I will not comply. I have a lot more grace for folks like you who chose to comply, than for those who insisted that others comply. It was the demand for compliance with the world, that was the greater error, than compliance with the world.
I am a very regular, TH-cam listener, while I work. But I never comment, but I simply must say that after reading through these comments, I feel less alone than I have in a long time.
Amazing how so many little churches in anywhere USA so many little people were fighting battles that were so monumental to them. Oh how the battle belongs to Him.
I am so grateful to God for His conviction in all of you.
Reading through these comments, I would love to meet with all of you to share in your story, and for you to share in mine. God wins. We must honor Christ. Peace to you all.
It baffles me how Blog & Mablog does not have a million subs.
Wide road, narrow road 🤷🏾😂
@@josiahpulemau6214 Yeah, sadly, I reckon.
Many Christians don't appreciate erudite teachers.
ABBA FATHER GOD did create the simplest of fabrics (H²O) to sustain all forms of life here on earth.
💘
I’ve been subd back when they had around a few hundred subs and I was the first like for months 😊 I wish he would upload some Plodcast here. 🎉
Failing to “see around the corner” is not a character flaw _per se,_ but is most certainly an egregious *discernment blunder.* It doesn’t matter how good a speaker, or how faithful a ministry one has had (in the absence of persecution); when the chips are down and the captain blunders, a good commander shuffles him off to serve in a less influential role. You can’t keep your head when the shelling starts, so we’ll put you in a position where you don’t lead other through the shelling. You either have it or you don’t… at least that’s what 3 combat tours taught me.
The last three years were just a foretaste of real
Persecution, so the ones who folded should be marked on not relied upon for the next round.
You’re welcome to the feast and we value your contribution, but when the bullets are flying, I won’t be asking you you to watch my six.
I was escorted off campus by police from a public university, I was forced to seek alternative employment away from the hospital I worked, and I had to find a new church due to compromised doctrine to accommodate social pressures… not to mention the daily harassment from the everyday people at the grocery store and gas station for not flying the flag of fear on my face.
Resistance was and is possible, but at a cost. Be prepared to pay the price or prepare to compromise into oblivion.
@@manager0175 it does, actually. Throughout the pandemic, every single person was given the choice to comply with the fear mongering or resist at their own peril. Those who complied, _especially if they violated their conscience in doing so_ are, in fact, the weaker brother or sister in the faith by definition. It is a direct measure of both their commitment and their faith.
@@manager0175but can you apologize for being wrong and congratulate people who had the discernment to see through the bluster? That is strong faith and recognizing another person’s gift of discernment is a good thing.
@@manager0175 I think you need to better understand the nature of Christian discernment. Trephination, leaches, lobotomies and child sacrifice were, at one point or another “best available medical guidance”. Masks, social distancing and the vaccines have all been shown to have had no effect on the spread and propagation of the illness, according to the most recent “best available medical guidance”. So, it would seem that the Christians who stuck to their convictions have since been vindicated; and the Christians who compromised have since been repudiated.
@@DaBigArmyDude wait, so do you trust the “best available medical science” or not?? Sounds like you trust it if it validates your anti-mask position, but not if it doesn’t?
@@manager0175 it does, actually. Leeches, trephination, and abhorrent offerings to Moloch and Baal were the “best medical guidance” of the time. Yet one would have been wise, prudent and righteous to reject such “solutions”. The same rings true for the last public health crisis, according to some contemporary “best medical guidance”. So, it would seem blindly following the “leaders” of our age does not abrogate ones culpability nor responsiblity. Whereas a keen and wise sense of discernment vindicates those who rejected such notions.
And by this we may measure one’s faithfulness: did they comply, eschewing both discernment and wisdom (and even violating their conscience) and go along with the masses? Or did they stand, often alone, convicted by their conscience to stand against the foolishness that was the propagated by the experts, and now stand vindicated?
My friend and pastor is one of the stalwart ones. A lot of folks don’t like him because of his determination to follow the Word of God,living and written. There are many like him, pretty much unsung, as is proper. I wish to thank the Lord for such as these. I pray there will be more. Your words are timely. We’re working on keeping the bruised and battered Body hole and healing.
Very strange. So Doug's issue of issues, his hill that he will die on, is whether a pastor would wear a mask during a pandemic? Or close his church during a pandemic? And someone wanting to reconcile has to "confess his sin" of following the science? I am reminded that Billy Sundy kept on holding revival crusades during the the 1918 "Spanish" flu pandemic. He kept right on holding church until 4 people died while the crusade was going on. For Doug to use wearing masks, and holding church during a pandemic as the keystone of his "ministry" and his support for T***p is (what Wm F Buckely jr would have called) a breath-taking-non-sequitur. Doug is following the Great Late Planet Earth model (remember Hal Lindsey? By 1988, the USSR would invade Israel, Jesus would come back in the clouds, and restore His kingdom on earth? Now Hal is on his fourth wife. Yeah, that guy.) Of scaring folks by shouting "we are under siege!" "persecution is coming!" and "we need revival!" It is a very old marketing and sales ploy. Create a crisis and tell everyone you are the only one that has the answer.
I acknowledge the word to me. Though hurt and angered by my former pastor's actions vaguely reminiscent of a certain Vidkun Quisling, I need to forgive him, and if providence or chance should throw us together, to love him as one whom Christ loves.
Thanks Doug!
Foregone can still mean find a better church. If he's still unrepentant about the lockdowns and mandates
I agree with A.D. Robles who said let's receive those who have repented (if they indeed did) but they can't go straight into leadership positions. Nor should they seek to. They need to be ok with not being shot-callers. That's where I stand too.
Thank you pastor Doug well said as always. I needed to hear this message. Grace and Peace
Are they admitting they were wrong? Are asking for forgiveness? Are they seeking reconciliation? If not, then they are no longer worth listening to.
Knowledge, wisdom & discretion come from a leader's mouth; this is rarely seen in the past 25+ years and it's gotten progressively worse imo. The inability to see how #history repeats when a civilization CLEARLY departs from God's Word is a sign of incompetence or worse. Kindly admit it, get off the dang stage and submit to those that display Knowledge, wisdom & discernment, entirely based on God's Word. For those lacking in discernment, just shut up, lol. The long list of Christian martyrs these past thousands of years agree with me (I think, lol)
Really thought provoking good talk sir
Yes. "Don't take the bait" and such videos are examples of some of the most responsible Christianity I've seen, and the reason i started paying attention to a little town named Moscow. Keep flipping them tables and pasting those stickers , respectfully J
You said: "Keep flipping them tables and pasting those stickers , respectfully J". I am sure Doug will keep selling you everything you need to flip tables and paste stickers. After all, that is what it is all about. Je$u$ $ave$!
@@manager0175 ah the gospel of poverty. Hiw much would you pay to save one soul?
@@manager0175no
Thank you for this lesson Doug. Gracious and wise and most of all biblical!!
Thank you for that word! I did need that.
I get where you’re going and I have, as Jesus commanded, forgiven them. On the other hand, they have not, as Jesus also commanded, apologized for what they have done. (Matthew 5:23-24) I do not trust these people, regardless of what they have done before, and tell others not to trust them. If a person, especially a pastor, is unwilling to publicly apologize for their wrongdoing then I don’t trust them and won’t until they do. I’ve been down this road too many times.
True. Like politicians, some people will change their views based on current trends. Whatever gets them the most votes
Yes. Without repentance there can be no real reconciliation or forgiveness.
@@JW-tg1nn Some if these pastors statements were directly used against members of the military (including me) as I was fighting for my career during the vaccine mandates. My Calvinist Baptist chaplain used quotes from church leaders in order to belittle my convictions. No apparent consideration was given to them about matters of conscience related to Romans 14 or 1 Corinthians 8. These leaders allowed themselves to be used as a bludgeon by the government against the consciences of the brethren. Many of them also closed their churches or required masks for worship. So, yes, I think apologies are in order.
Truly well said. Forgiveness is and should be abundantly available for all those who repent. Repent in the hebrew word sense to turn back from their ways. Thats the forgiveness that the Bible teaches and preaches.
Good lesson. Thank you Pastor!
Forgive them all, embrace back most, and remove from authority positions many. They have proven to lack the wisdom needed for God's Shepherds.
Great word Pastor.
A great and very difficult lesson to learn and practice! Excellent reminder pastor Doug.
Carthage, where I was educated. College, that is.
I Dropped Out in 2000, after circulating my momentary addition to their ethics curriculum, live, in class, without permission. They had omitted all biblical stances and placed a rabid atheist in charge of their ethics courses. Peter Singer territory.
But they are ELCA affiliated. Such magnanimous accountability. Except to the Bible AND it's stances, wording, history.
Wisdom. Love it.
Why is it that Laodicea always comes to mind with this, now three year long topic?
“Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline. Therefore be zealous and repent.”
Revelation 3:19
When we sin, we fall short, and need to repent and ask forgiveness. So do the many tyrants that closed doors, demended masks, and distancing, and then accused the unvaxxed of being selfish rebels for not wanting to be a guinea pig. Causing death to family, friends, fellow church men. I wait patiently for any of the to repent...but, as you say, I might have missed out on that. God bless you, thank you, for a measured long view.
I'll have to pick up some of those good books by E. Michael Jones. Thanks for the recommendation, Doug! 😉
(6:44) _There is a difference between wanting to see an acknowledgment of error and wanting to make someone crawl_
_Acknowledgement of error is all about restoration of relationship; making things right_
_Making someone crawl is all about domineering and trying to become great in the Kingdom by carnal means_
-Doug Wilson
> We have to vigilant of our own temptation to 'cancel' and to instead practice the virtue of forgiveness at the point of acknowledgment of error.
@@manager0175
We should find those who used the 'let a crisis go to waste' opportunity to trial run shutting down churches then ensure that they are removed and will never again hold political office.
ex: Newsolini
@@manager0175
There's no political party that is 100% resolute.
_The condition upon which the Lord hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt_
-John Philpot Curran
@@dragonhold4 Curran died in 1817. That age is long gone. We are better off without it. What's next? Are we going to believe the Earth is at he center of the solar system? That our solar system is the only one in this galaxy? That this galaxy is the only one in the universe? Grow up in your faith. The sooner you do, the sooner you will set aside Doug and his merry minions.
I'm glad that kid from Fight for Truth recommends you. Excellent stuff!
👍😎👍
I thank God that I had access in person to Apologia church with Jeff Durbin's leadership at the pulpit throughout that insanity.
The church we were attending had a leftist takeover and booted the strong hearted pastor we loved. He did not re-emerge till a year later and we had already moved onto Apologia.
Half of the time I had no idea what you were talking about. And I only know a few of the names you mentioned. I am not up to date on the Eva drama.
What happens when they refuse to acknowledge anything, or put up a fairly obvious, quarter hearted attempt?!
I love you so much brother.
i love Doug wilson
Enjoying the hate and the love down in the comments. Keep preaching pastor.
As one who basically was pushed out and chastised for standing on truth, I agree BUT if there is no repentance or even a willingness to admit they blew it, then they are shepherds who did not guard their sheep. Jesus asked Peter 3 times to care for His sheep. Peter took responsibility and even died for this. Do you really believe any of these pastors would die for their flock? 🤔
I went to prison a Raging Romanist.
I came out a Cage Stage Calvinist.
I went back to prison a humbled disgrace.
I now know the Severity and Grace of the Lord. That makes me a thoroughly equipped Christian.
Satan's sifting has a way of humbling you. I'm speaking from present experience. If we come out on the other side with our faith still intact, let God be praised for His glorious grace.
A criminal is a criminal, Christian or not
@Donner906 yup. You got me. I confess I've done bad things. There is only one Judge I fear. You didn't make the cut. Stay humble.
Jesus is Lord!! I thank the Lord for the faithful men in ministry today, and the faithful men of the future (which may include unfaithful men of the present just as our Lord did with Peter!).
You forgot Phil Johson and Keith Foskey, your friendly awesome dopelgangers .
If this is about Alistair Beggs gaff, it is pretty much the best ever.
Did I miss something?
@@karanadon137 Unfortunately Begg encouraged a Christian woman to attend a trans wedding in order to show love and not appear judgemental.
@@eurekahope5310 Hatred and judgement can't be preferable?
@aallen5256 certainly the commenter above cannot feel very loved by your question. Would it not be more loving just to go along with what they're saying?
@@johnlocke6800 why not? What’s unloving about it? You’re just tone policing to avoid my question.
If they apologize, restoration must come quickly. If they, like Piper and now Begg, ignore their offense, condemnation must come down. Hard. The church, nation and world have sunk too far to countenance foolishness.
@@manager0175 What is a Christian nationalist? Is it sinful? I don’t know if I am one; I do know I’m not an atheistic globalist.
What was pipers offense?
@@benjaminmoelker8915 Piper communicated (10/22/2020) that Trump disdain was more important than laws protecting freedom and life. He got his way; Biden was elected. He said horrible things about Trump. He has never said one word against Biden. Not one.
@@Mando-d4k wow! He said he hates trump more than he's pro life? That's insane. Where did he say this so I can look it up
@@benjaminmoelker8915 By Robert A.J. Gagnon
In the Book of Judges, Yahweh would regularly hand Israel over to its enemies for forsaking him for the Canaanite storm god Baal Hadad and the mother goddess Asherah. Here we have evangelicals -- like John Piper, Tim Keller, and other Never-Trump advocates connected with The Gospel Coalition or the Southern Baptist Ethics and "Religious Liberty" Commission, the Christianity Today CEO Timothy Dalrymple and former chief editor Mark Galli, and of course David French -- handing us over to our enemies to face permanent loss of freedoms and our educational institutions. Irony is a beautiful thing when it doesn't hurt so much. And it was all preventable, as we can see from the closeness of the election. Good people making a foolish choice and cloaking it in virtue.
The cancel culture will now be officially ensconced in the White House, replete with compulsory speech mandates. Add to these devastating consequences promotion of the culture of death, threats to employment and the closing off of certain professions to Christians, threats to parental rights with regard to one's "LGBTQ" identified children, and threats to the church (tax-exempt status, use of buildings for "LGBTQ" promotion).
Some conservative Catholic leaders (and non-Catholics like Rod Dreher) who know how devastating the consequences of a Biden-Harris victory would be for free speech and the free exercise of religion, not to mention for pro-life policies and judicial appointments, muddied the waters by denying that there was a moral imperative to cast an effective vote against Biden-Harris, a complete inconsistency once they had acknowledged that faithful Catholics could not vote for Biden-Harris. Not as damaging as the Never-Trumpers but far from helpful at an "all hands on deck" moment of American history.
And for what? To dump a President who was pro-life, fighting for the free exercise of religion and free speech, thwarting the worst bill in over a century (maybe ever; the "Equality Act"), helping African Americans in several policy moves, helping American blue-collar workers by standing against illegal immigration, presiding till COVID over the lowest unemployment rate in half a century and making a strong comeback in the economy in the last few months, and making infinitely better judicial nominations and appointments than we could ever hope for from Biden-Harris (the most recent being within the last 2 weeks before the election).
A President, mind you, who hasn't been promoting sexual immorality in his policies or shown to be engaging in such behavior for over 12 years. All for remarks, most of which are distorted (like the perpetual lie about Charlottesville), which have been shown to have zero negative policy consequences.
And these Never-Trumpers no longer had the excuse of saying that Trump won't keep his campaign promises. Plus he had a godly vice president and associated himself with many godly people, while Biden picks as Vice President a candidate who is the furthest left in the Dem Party and hates anyone who doesn't support abortion or the whole "LGBTQ" agenda.
Biden and Harris, and their ilk, are people of truly bad character, with significant evidence of corruption. They made it possible for a Party to win whose twin idols are abortion and "LGBTQ" coercive law. A Party that fueled destruction of property and violence to encourage racial division and animosity, a Party that insists that people repent of the evil of "whiteness" and view American history as little more than an experiment of virulent racism.
These Christian leaders responded out of their left-wing cultural or geographical context that treated Trump as evil's chief minion. They felt their reputation, ministry, or academic position under siege for any support of Trump. So they found shelter in their Never-Trumpism.
They used excuses like, "It's going to happen at some time in the future anyway," never stopping to think that another four years of a Trump presidency would likely bear great fruit for judicial appointments whose salutary effect for the nation would continue long after Trump was gone.
These Never-Trumpers even acted at a time when polls were indicating that the Republicans would lose the Senate (at the time of this post, that is still possible when one subtracts RINO "Republicans" from the Republican tally), which would have given Dems control of both branches of Congress as well as the White House.
This is the greatest and most damaging political folly in my lifetime. Unfortunately, we all have to pay for this betrayal for the rest of our lives.
So good!
Doug reminds me of a french love song, it sounds beautiful but i dont understand a word of it.
A handy chart in color with references would make this clear
Point(s) well taken and yes no one is immune...the mass gaslighting of late an example
You said: Point(s) well taken and yes no one is immune...the mass gaslighting of late an example". Since 2015, no one has gaslighted and grifted more than T***p.
"...Never shall we die!" because King Jesus. 😊
AD Robles and Russell Moore are now on a list together. 😂
Forgiveness is never optional. It is imperative that we forgive as Christ forgave us (Eph 4:32). Forgiveness does not mean that the individual is repentant, and it does not mean that we have to continue on in a way that foolishly acts as if the error never happened. The most difficult decision isn't whether to forgive, because forgiveness is commanded, but how to proceed when the repentance of failed leaders is in question and their failures impact their ministries. In Acts 15:36-41, Paul and Barnabas had a disagreement over whether to take John Mark back on their subsequent missionary journeys. John Mark had previously abandoned Paul and Barnabas at Pamphylia. Their disagreement over John Mark was so harsh that they parted ways. A similar parting of ways may be in order in various evangelical circles. In the same manner as Paul and Barnabas, whether you choose to part ways to find more dependable missionary companions or remain with the leadership that previously failed you in hope that they are genuinely repentant, you must forgive all who are involved and continue the work of faithful Gospel ministry.
"It is imperative that we forgive as Christ forgave us (Eph 4:32). Forgiveness does not mean that the individual is repentant"
Does Christ forgive the unrepentant?
@@OscarSchneegans Our forgiveness of others, as required by God, is not dependent on their repentance. As far as salvation is concerned, of course those who Christ calls, he calls to repent and believe. However, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Our forgiveness of others should be a reflection of how God has forgiven us.
@@paulbrown6491Christ died for us while we were still sinners, yet we are not forgiven until we have repented and trusted in Him. If we are to “reflect how God has forgiven us” then the requirement for repentance must be considered. Our attitude should be that of the Prodigal Son’s father. Waiting on the door step in anticipation, presumably praying for the return of a repentant son, ready to forgive in a surprising way and restore him at the moment or repentance.
@@paulbrown6491 You didn't answer the question. Does Christ forgive the unrepentant?
@OscarSchneegans From the cross, He prayed, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do." Was Jesus forgiving unrepentant sinners? Or does repentance imply a knowledge that what one is doing is wrong? A serious question - not being contentious.
Bravo
Comments are open until we have another discussion with Andrew Isker
I think you left out a category: Pharisees. They were willing to disagree with the Sadducees and weren't the ones who were totally in bed with Rome, but in the final analysis they were more interested in their places of honor. Jesus had some of his harshest words for them. There is a huge difference between a wobbling Peter and a Pharisee who's only on our side to have their place of honor and respectful greeting (Matthew 23). It's not an easy task, but it seems important to discern between those.
Albert Mohler praised the vaccine and wrote "In terms of technology, it hearkens back to the Apollo moon mission...This is the first step in bringing an end to the COVID-19 pandemic in America-and it was achieved in an unprecedented time frame with demonstrable results."
thank you.
So glad to see Evangelicals reconnect with the Church's long and glorious history.
Christianity did not begin in 1611 with the King James' Bible, nor in 1901 with the Topeka Revival. It started circa. 30 A.D. with the Theophany of our Lord. A lot has happened since then! 🎉🎉🎉
💘
I don't think you're using theophany correctly
@@cosmictreason2242 Well, what do you think it means? 😄😄😄😄
@@pj_ytmt-123an appearance of God in the Old Testament/preincarnation. Since no one has seen the father, theophany and Christophanies are essentially synonymous. The appearance of Christ in his incarnation is therefore simply "his incarnation," ir "his coming in the flesh," Not a theophany. At any rate the incarnation was certainly not the first theophany, which your comment implied
@cosmictreason2242
Christianity - the New Covenant between God and His people Israel - began with the baptism of the Lord in the River Jordan:
"And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him." (Lk. 9:35)
What's up with missing videos the last few weeks? Are we going to get Wednesday's blog post? 😢
I didn't hear David Platt in there, did I miss it?
😂😂😂
Doug, what is E. Michael Jones’ blindspot? Maybe you should try writing a response?
Anyone else even slightly confused about just what Pastor Wilson is talking about? Not the application, but who did what to whom? Just me? Fair enough.
Pastors who closed their churches during Covid
Thoroughly confusing and schizophrenic.
@@JW-tg1nn But he's saying that's not Donatism. Well it's not. It's legalism. Ever since Covid I started using hand sanitizer all the time. Do I need to repent? To get back into whose good graces? I also wear a mask on a plane now so I don't get a virus. I think it's a good idea. But I'm the only one usually.
@@jcr4runner Yes, you need to repent of living in fear.
@@JW-tg1nnMaybe I need to repent of self righteousness. But this is one of the most idiotic things I've seen I have to say it because that's what I see. It's cultish and weird.
Dr. Ron Smith, Church of the King, McAllen, TX.
Seeing the mainline Evangelical denominations in Canada going woke is pretty sad. Hard to watch it happen in slow motion.
Good points. But the arrogance makes me wince.
I agree with @dabigarmydude. Nobody is saying these men can’t return, but why is it necessary for them to return and be in charge? Are we out of space in the pews? And one more point: Peter may have failed, but it was a failure based on sincere weakness and fear… completely understandable, but this comparison to Peters situation is unfair. Peter did NOT take C19 funding that came with a compliance package, and part of that package was that he would keep it secret on pain of having to pay back the money, and maybe even an oath to the WHO. Peter did not have a church board who all agreed, and who to this day still keep that secret while asking to have their credibility returned. These men did not fail out fear or ignorance. They took big checks and signed “documents of understanding.” Which is all still forgivable, but to be fair to Peter: He would never have done that.
When is the post millennial eschatology movie coming? Need to start planning to release a movie to explain why Christians weren't raptured this week.
Practice grace before correction.🤔
I'm 10 minutes in and I have no idea what this is about. Does it have a central idea?
The pastors who closed churches during covid. While others fought their government to stay open
@@JW-tg1nn Why is it nonsense?
Hear this, you elders;
give ear, all inhabitants of the land!
Has such a thing happened in your days,
or in the days of your fathers?
Tell your children of it,
and let your children tell their children,
and their children to another generation.
What the cutting locust left,
the swarming locust has eaten.
What the swarming locust left,
the hopping locust has eaten,
and what the hopping locust left,
the destroying locust has eaten.
Awake, you drunkards, and weep,
and wail, all you drinkers of wine,
because of the sweet wine,
for it is cut off from your mouth.
For a nation has come up against my land,
powerful and beyond number;
its teeth are lions' teeth,
and it has the fangs of a lioness.
It has laid waste my vine
and splintered my fig tree;
it has stripped off their bark and thrown it down;
their branches are made white.
Lament like a virgin wearing sackcloth
for the bridegroom of her youth.
The grain offering and the drink offering are cut off
from the house of the Lord.
The priests mourn,
the ministers of the Lord.
The fields are destroyed,
the ground mourns,
because the grain is destroyed,
the wine dries up,
the oil languishes.
Be ashamed, O tillers of the soil;
wail, O vinedressers,
for the wheat and the barley,
because the harvest of the field has perished.
The vine dries up;
the fig tree languishes.
Pomegranate, palm, and apple,
all the trees of the field are dried up,
and gladness dries up
from the children of man.
Put on sackcloth and lament, O priests;
wail, O ministers of the altar.
Go in, pass the night in sackcloth,
O ministers of my God!
Because grain offering and drink offering
are withheld from the house of your God.
Consecrate a fast;
call a solemn assembly.
Gather the elders
and all the inhabitants of the land
to the house of the Lord your God,
and cry out to the Lord.
Alas for the day!
For the day of the Lord is near,
and as destruction from the Almighty it comes.
Is not the food cut off
before our eyes,
joy and gladness
from the house of our God?
The seed shrivels under the clods;
the storehouses are desolate;
the granaries are torn down
because the grain has dried up.
How the beasts groan!
The herds of cattle are perplexed
because there is no pasture for them;
even the flocks of sheep suffer.
To you, O Lord, I call.
For fire has devoured
the pastures of the wilderness,
and flame has burned
all the trees of the field.
Even the beasts of the field pant for you
because the water brooks are dried up,
and fire has devoured
the pastures of the wilderness.
By evengelical leaders who flaked you must mean Tim Challies. Masked our congregation at grace fellowship here in Toronto that lead me to leave. It was at such a time in my life that I needed the church, and when pesented with the choice to sign up but only be picked 1 out of 10 in attendence wa a hard choice, feeling that i could be taking from someone else who was in much more need then myself. Once restrictions lightened, we wernt allowed to sing or praise God inside and would stand in groups outside, maskes singing. What a joke this was. A shameful act at least. At such a time where I was so dependent on the church for fellowship, was denied under the giuse of Romans 13. Church bending rheir knee to ceaser. A sad example of a leader. Tim challies blogged about how he was wrong, and so ill forgive him, but i wont forget.
Well said, but those who wavered need to accept especially from pew sitters like me, when we demand they apologize for having been wrong. To simply pretend it didn't happen is NOT good enough. There must be public confession of sin from those leaders, not an apology for being wrong or short sighted.
As to any Church that closed, especially in states like my Florida, where there was a declaration that Churches could stay open; which now puts physical attendance as a must APOLOGIZE. DO NOT QUOTE PROTO NEHEMIAH WHO CHANGED GOD'S WORD TO SUIT HIS POLITICAL NEEDS ABOUT REBUILDING. You closed the physical building when the local Governor expressly said you could keep it open and got the funds from Caesar? You have PROVEN you don't believe physical attendance is important enough for me to care whatever your excuses are. You're now on my optional list.
Doug Wilson gives good advice here. Well, I would rather listen to him, White and McAtthur online than the local appointed Bishops. This Latin Latian refuses the doctrine of the Nico-latians. There's salvation outside the visible Church and you'd be surprised how large the invisible one has grown.
Anyway, I rather continue learning the original languages so I can get past Traitore Traductore. See Gen 1:27 in the Hebrew for the words translated male and female. Even Wilson and McAtthur dare not say it, nor demand head covered women. Wearing pants, fine, uncovered head, not allowed.
And Cyprian can kiss my grits.
I don't even LIKE grits!
You said: "when we demand they apologize for having been wrong. To simply pretend it didn't happen is NOT good enough. There must be public confession of sin from those leaders, not an apology for being wrong or short sighted." The problem is, and was, WE WERE NOT WRONG. Masking and restricting public gatherings helped stop the spread of COVID-19. We have nothing to repent of. We were seeing the virus ravage our nursing homes and assisted living facilities. We watched our ERs overrun with corpses. We watched the T***p administration fail in its responsibility to the nation, day after day, week after week, month after month.. For Doug (and the rest of the 'Christian nationalists') to use this as some sort of axe to grind, is shallow minded and misguided. Want to make things better? Go back to your churches, heal the sick, cast out demons, clothed the naked, house the homeless, feed the hungry, take care of orphans and widows, and make disciples. Or as Jesus said: "take the log from your own eye, before you take the speck from your brother's."
@@JW-tg1nn Agreed, I am wrong not to be participating in a local Church BUT, if you think accountability has anything to do with it, you're deluded. There's plenty of Churches, even solid Bible preaching ones, where you can easily sit in a pew year by year and never have ANYONE hold you accountable. In fact, it is the rarity when any accountability happens. That said, deal with the problem that I cited. The messenger (me) is corrupt, but the message is unanswered.
The *_world_* is a weird place?! This observation from a 21st Century Evangelical?
And along that same line, I think the BLAH BLAH poster is singularly---even providentially---appropriate.
BTW I so want to move past this! But I just heard my former Pastor on radio still espousing race as the one sin we can’t seem to move past🙄amazing that I am in a church that is extremely diverse and our Pastor doesn’t have to bring it to our attention 🤔yes, racism along with elitism is a problem…we aren’t talking about that😯
Of course, nobody was made to wear the mask. They donned it willingly, not necessarily happily. If it was wrong to be asked, then it was wrong to comply. If or since they complied for whatever reason, they did it themselves, and shame on them if they now feel coerced. I never wore it, and refused to go along. Yeah, I paid a price, but stayed true to conscience, by the grace of God
Comment for algorithm!
Mic drop 😂
Do they have a wife and kids known for following the Lord? I think when we can't even get the basics right, it's probably pointless to fit about things. The whole evangelical church is in danger of hell and the orthodox side has been there for a while already. Tradition, man worship, ethnocentrism, whatever you want to call it. It's been this way for a long time with a pass-the-baton cycle of musical chairs. One more man to follow. Any man, besides Christ. You get the Holy Spirit back to the leadership of the church and things will be good again, but it is not going to be through reason, great oration, or any other houses of straw. He can communicate. He can do miracles. He can show up. But until you let Him lead, He'll let you spin around in circles as the culture falls straight to hell. After all, He doesn't owe good to anyone.
True. Take away these pastor's comfy salaries, and you'll quickly see growth in the church.
Amen.... Bugsy
Let's not talk about Ligon Duncan. I know solid Christians who are still loyal to Eric Mason. It boggles my mind when millions of atheists have abandoned and condemned the woke years ago.
I love that first glib sentence. It just rolls off your tongue as though your brain hasn't just shorted out.
God is perfect. God expects perfection from himself and he is never disappointed.
He also *_demands_* perfection of others. He knows he won't get it from us, so he has made provision for that certainty. You are abusing the word _perfectionist_ to make a point I think you know is untenable, but it kindasorta leads your listeners to the conclusions you want them to draw.
Very dishonest.
Then you careen into a discussion of leaders' flagrant disobedience which is done in the public eye and which calls for some sort of explanation, and from there you try to sound measured and insightful. You drag your readers through a convoluted explanation of how the intolerable can become understandable and therefore forgivable.
Try giving some thought to your posts before uploading them.
@@DeaconBeanCooter Contemporary American Christianity is a shambles, a rude joke.
There is an awful scale modeler on TH-cam. There is nothing he can do well. He can’t clean up parts he’s nipped off the sprue, he can’t glue, he can’t paint with either a brush or an airbrush, he can’t choose colors, he can’t follow instructions, he can’t read directions…everything he touches turns out to be an eye-catching blemish.
But he is instructive---and especially entertaining---to listen to. It’s not just that he does everything wrong, it’s that he blathers on and on giving a prolonged explanation of his reasoning for doing what inevitably fails.
He’s like these Evangelical Pests. In 1993 we got (from Eerdmans no less) _No Place for Truth, Or Whatever Happened to Evangelical Theology._
Nothing has changed and nothing will change.
We’ll just get more conferences and more social media influencers.
The Trap of Donutism Lite is that one can consume a low-calorie donut but then proceed to eat more of them than you normally would of high-calorie donuts. In either case, Dunkin' Donuts, Krispy Kreme et al don't mind and value your business.
In this analogy, what might be overdone in Donatism lite?
Ordering two of either Dunkin' Donuts' Signature Latte or Krispy Kreme's Ghirardelli Hot Chocolate. One single 7-Eleven Extra Large Coffee is close but still within reasonable limits, particularly for Blue-Collar workers who travel long distances to work.
Haha I think you misunderstood me. I meant what do the modern Donatists do too much of because it seems better than the regular variety? What is their “low calorie donut” that they need to exercise restraint with?
Perhaps consuming too many of the scrumptious KATZ brand Dairy Free, Nut Free, Soy Free, Gluten Free, Kosher Donut Holes, either:
1. Regular
2. Glazed Chocolate
- or -
3. Mini Jelly
Oh, my bad. I see now that it was me who was misunderstanding you. I thought you were making a theologically significant analogy, but you were just making a pun. I feel dumb. 😄
Like you a lot Doug but did you slip in there the assertion that people who disagree with you on Modern Israel and Judaism have a “blind spot?” Perhaps they just see things a little differently.
You are way too Zionist for me, but I don’t call it a blind spot; it’s just a (sharp) difference in opinion.
First post
Why are you so certain that pastors who told members to wear masks were in the absolute wrong? What do they need to repent of? Respecting the civil magistrate?
For confirming to the ways of the world and instructing everyone to do the same. For yielding to the false god of humanism and its idol of safety. None of it was out of fear of God, it was for fear man, and the guilt and shame in which it way inflict. It all went down the way it was supposed to, revealing one’s view of God.
@@BrianLaceyAnderson-ur2co so at what point is submission to authority not to be done? I'm glad you have figured out that we are under a godless civil magistrate, but that doesn't mean the command to submit is nul and void. Submission begins when you disagree, not when you agree...
Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and render to God what is God’s. Y’all are clearly demonstrating what belongs to who. And your view of God. There absolutely has to be a point when a believer says no to the authority when the authority breaches that threshold. Where that threshold is, has to do with conviction. There were plenty of Hebrews willing to go along with king Neb’s statue, even though the submitted in their disagreement. Lots of people were misled by in 2020, I don’t want to shame anyone, but it was just a mistake with good intentions
@@BrianLaceyAnderson-ur2co absolutely, there is a point where we do not submit. But I'm asking as the above commenter pointed out, how is submitting to wearing a mask (even if it is scientifically disproven to help) a sin against God, or the equivalent to idolatry?? The state I lived in at that time did not bar us from gathering for worship.
Not submitting to the magistrate because he’s out of bounds. That’s Christ’s church, not theirs.
Church leaders not requiring it , and I really mean this, because I just don’t see it in the character and ministry of Jesus in the gospel. The Bible just doesn’t lead me to believe that He would require that to attend His sermons. Overall, just the shaming or forcing or demanding in general in regards to everything in 2020 is what was such a huge red flag to me. I agree that many many people don’t see how it equates to bowing to a statue or conforming to the world. But I do. That is why I will not comply. I have a lot more grace for folks like you who chose to comply, than for those who insisted that others comply. It was the demand for compliance with the world, that was the greater error, than compliance with the world.