Let's Talk Backwards Compatibility | Nerd Immersion
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มิ.ย. 2024
- Backwards Compatibility has been one of the biggest questions/concern I've received in all of these livestream videos. It was initially addressed in the first video I covered, but comicbook.com received some additional clarification.
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it's funny how all the marketing is "it's the same d&d you know and love and it all fits together and nothing is changing" and also "it's all brand new and revolutionary!!!"
Yea, really feels like they're trying to have their cake and eat it too.
Well, they weren't lying though. Monks still suck and Rangers are the weakest class in 5E.
@@MichaelNgTzeWei didn't they give a lot to 2024 monks?
@@paulwarren29 Not the worst class i guess
If you've played in D&D long enough, which I have played since the red box days, you know very well that "backwards compatibility" means that for a few months, AT MOST, you can play your game as it was. HOWEVER, very quickly all kinds of new errata and ways of making characters will make it clear that the "new edition" is more powerful than the older edition. After a year, you simply won't be able to play the old modules with all the new rules and errata that have come out, which then the "update" Curse of Strahd and the old goodies come out as "2024" rules.
To be fair, 3.0 to 3.5 was actually a NERF to most of the overpowered builds.
@@almisami 😂 I miss those days.
@@almisami 3.5 is still the golden days imho
@@Guldfisken90 Uh... I mean the golden days of caster supremacy.
5E has it's issues but man I do not want to go back to that.
I loved my red box set.
I gotta say I think it’ll be pretty simple to update old subclasses, for clerics you just move the first and second level features up to 3rd level, omit any weapon and armor proficiencies (those come from the Divine Order Class Feature now) and omit the level 8 feature in favor of the equivalent new class feature. Warlock subclasses are even easier, just move the 1st level feature to 3rd and all the patron spells are automatically prepared.
I do think some species will be more complicated, but not insurmountably so. For example, the Plasmoid gets a feature that gives them advantage on any ability checks to initiate or end a grapple. Since grappling will be based on saving throws, it’s pretty clear to see that they should just have advantage on saves to escape a grapple and impose disadvantage on saves against grapples they initiate.
@@pederw4900oh boy a not insurmountable amount of work so I can keep playing? And it costs a fortune? Where do I sign?
@@barelylegalbriefs nothing costs a fortune if you’re willing to pirate…there are some Tools I use religiously and have access to the width and breadth of 5e content, the only book I ever bought was the PHB.
Outside of that, I like this game a lot, and I’m willing to do what it takes to make sure all the old content is usable for me and my friends at least.
@@pederw4900 thanks for the reply, but if I need to break the law or spend a fortune for the privilege of playing the “compatible “ game, gonna go with DC20, 👍
I'll be using 3rd party resources with 2014 as a base.
The real backwards compatibility is the friends we made along the way.
WHAT we were supposed to make friends. WHERE WAS that in the 2014 PHB . WAAA. I didn't know we were supposed to do that.
@@RottenRogerDM Agreed, I don't recall that in RAW.
I’m most curious about DnDBeyond. What are the options there gonna be? On paper with actual books….all info here seems easy. But will DnDBeyond follow along or will they not make ‘14 choices available…forcing people to only use ‘24? What I’ll do at my table will depend on DnDBeyond. I have some players who wouldn’t want to move to just paper.
So far, they've kept data from old versions with a [Legacy] tag attached. You can still play the legacy version of the bugbear from Volo's...Monsters, forgoing the updated bugbear from Mordenkainen's...Multiverse, for example.
I will be interested to see how they handle 5E versions vs. 5.5 versions of everything, though. IF they force everyone to adopt 5.5 immediately, I think they will see a lot of folks dumping subs. In my case, I have a bunch of money-poor players. My DnDB sub and shared access to sources is essential for them to play. Currently, I do not intend to immediately re-buy the 5.5 books when my players are happy in 5E.
If they are smart, they will have a toggle on the character options page to select version.
I low key hope that it's poorly designed enough that I have more ammo to convince my players to leave D&D (& DnD Beyond by extension) behind for a new system. Covid drove my players to play online, and now that's all we do. I'm tired of online play, tired of WotC, and tired of trying to make DnD Beyond work
@@imayb1 I don't think they will get rid of the books you have, but I think the character builder will go to 2024. The 2014 Character builder may still have a link to it as "legacy" but i don't see them trying to support both sets of rules at the sametime. Besides having everything 2014 and labled legacy doesn't actually stop players from choosing that spell instead of the correct new spell, and its just going to be horrible using the program with both available unless you can toggle one of them off for you and your players.
3.5 effectively made 3.0 obsolete even though they were "compatible." This will be the same. Mixing and matching isn't going to work.
On the nose.
3.0 prstige classes were oh, so flavorful, though. And 3.0 spells were often very OP.
are sure?, give me a echo knight with this fighter and i carry any gruop in adventure
"Redundant"
3.5 wasn't actually compatible. You couldn't really play 3.0 base classes with 3.5 base classes, though some 3.0 prestige classes were still viable. I have more confidence in the 2014 classes being able to function with 2024 ones, but it is clear that the new ones are more powerful. Still the main point of backwards compatibility is using the new classes and monsters in old adventures and using old subclasses and races/species with new classes. That is still very much on the table. I don't predict redesigns of old adventures using new rules like 3.5 sometimes did, but I could be wrong.
We're going to do whatever the GM allows.
I doubt the people i play with will even buy the new books
Yeah, I'm my groups "forever DM" and I have absolutely no plans on spending MORE money on a new edition of D&D..
Same
I won't be, costs a bloody fortune! If they want people to use the new rules, why price it so high?
I preordered the base set of 3 and the exclusive covers. Looks amazing.
A bladesinger wizard with a 1 level dip to paladin to get divine smite as a spell is not something i can emotionally cope with
Yeah. It’s completely busted.
Divine Smite is still only gotten at 2nd level Paladin, same as 2014.
Divine smite is a level 2 feature. You would also need a 13 in str and con on top of the high dex and int you’d need as a bladesinger. Not as compatible as you’d think unfortunately.
@@Hey-Its-Dingo maybe I've misread but paladins get spells at first level now and divine smite is a first level spell.
The fact that bladesingers instead of getting a extra attack didnt get a smite like feature will always confuse me.
In the best case scenario this will be the same as it was between 1st AD&D and 2E AD&D. Those were also said to be compatible, and they were, with some minor revisions.
I totally agree. I never had an issue. If an older player knew their hit tables by heart and continued to use them (instead of THAC0), I never questioned it. Basically, I just let any player with older books continue as they liked but allowed newer players to use the updated rules. In AD&D, the rules were split between books, so it would've been challenging for everyone to switch at the same time. We were kids and usually had to wait for birthdays or Christmas to get a new book. Minor differences weren't a major concern. The fun of playing and creating a good story was the primary goal. I don't anticipate doing things differently with the new rules. It's not that hard for me to accommodate both. I know it might be daunting for others, but I look at the messaging from WoTC as "guidance" for those who prefer a more definitive ruling. Maybe that's just me. I've never seen updates as a big deal. DMs know the rules and know what will "break" their games and can adjust as needed. I do it all the time when I run old AD&D modules in 5e while converting on the fly.
My game is level 12, no point in changing that dramatically midway in. We'll have a conversation about rules to adopt going forward, but I don't even plan on looking at the 2024 book until the gm guide is out.
They said it would be backwards-compatible.
They never said it would be *forwards* compatible. :)
I mean, no one would expect a PS5 game to play on a PS4.
Why can't they just call it 5, and 5.5 hearing 2014 and 2024 over and over hurts my head
This is a trend taken from the software industry. Instead of versioning 1, 2, 3, we're now seeing versions by month and year, ie. 2024.1 for Jan, 2024 or 2025.12 for Dec, 2025. IF this works with WOTC, they'll basically just keep versioning with new books like this over months and years and they can claim they never changed editions... A lot like they do with MTG. In reality, as others have pointed out, the latest releases will always be the most powerful and desirable, making the old materials obsolete.
5 and 5.5 is now canon in my head, thanks for that :) lol
If you have to "Convert" then it's not compatible. I can "convert" Deadlands adventures to 5e D&D. Doesn't mean they're "compatible".
The classes that got their subclass at earlier levels could just get a sentence saying, "The features you would normally get at level 1 or 2, you just get at level 3 instead." With a few miner caveats.
this is something that i feel flavor wise is backwards. I understand for the purposes of multiclass balancing but a paladin without an oath or a warlock without a patron until third level feels off to me.
@@zealous944Warlock makes a ton of sense. Instead of a level 1 character that somehow made a deal, you've just stepped onto the path. By level 3 you've accumulated enough knowledge of how to reach out in the first place, or gives you time in campaign to meet and deal with a patron.
@zealous944 the way I see it, you always had your patron, it's just that at 3rd level you receive benefits specific to that patron.
Paladin is sort of the same, you're getting there but not fully committed yet @@Xynth25
@@zealous944Yeah like the other two said. When it comes to the Cleric or the Paladin or the Warlock you can look at it like, when they start off, they only have the most basic of abilities. But at 3rd level is when they are either watched more closely or gain enough power to use abilities specific to the things that they follow or just the powers that they hold become more focused.
I think my group will finish our current campaign in 2014 rules, but we might use some of our side games to try the 2024-2025 rules. Depending on how the Cleric was finalized, I could probably figure out how to initially convert the 2014 domains into the 2024 setup.
Our weekly campaign just ended, and we actually talked about your question, so I have an answer!
This campaign is about 5 years ongoing, and will be a few more years. We're going to keep running the house-ruled 2014 that we've been running for that game. Once we see the spell updates, those will likely get ported into the game, but we're just leaving classes and core rules untouched for the remainder of it otherwise, but we're also using house rules, some of which in 2024 are no longer house rules. So some of the long-hanging fruit we're just already doing.
I just re-read this and realize it was unclear. - our normal weekly session just ended, during which we talked about this question today. The campaign will be ongoing. And that's what we're doing for that campaign, the other group I play in is waiting to see the new books to start a new (shorter) campaign, but will likely be using the new rules, but with old subclasses/species allowed.
I have an ongoing campaign. The plan is to do a one shot when the rules drop and see how we all feel.
My impression is that we will either finish the campaign, then switch, or switch mid campaign if we like the changes that much.
Going forward after the new core books release I'm going to use the 2024 rules but I think that I'm going to allow older subclasses (if the backwards compatibility works good enough) and any subclass that has a new version that new version is the only to be used
For my group I’m planning on mixing both the 2014 and 2024 rules for 5e as well as Tales of the Valiant+kobold presses old 5e homebrew and Star Wars 5e.
Can we just call them 5th edition 5.1 Edition instead of the clunky "2014" and "2024"? I know WotC doesn't want to go the whole "5.5" route, but this naming convention is just very dumb.
Everybody gonna call it 5.5, I can say that pretty confidently.
For my table, I've already decided on a homebrew hybrid. I'm going to pull what's good from 2024 and add them to the 2014 classes and combat rules, while pretty much ignoring all the other stuff. My group doesn't look to min-max one-dip multiclass and just have fun at the table, so I have no fear of the hexblade warlock or twilight cleric being abused.
I'll probably do a hybrid, updating (homebrewing) things to meet the new rules. I mean I really love the weapon traits as an example, and was already looking at importing some stuff from Midgard into my campaign setting.
Don't think I'll ever touch dnd 5.5e /6e /dnd 2024.
I might port the weapon mastery stuff across.
Going forward I will be using, in my current campaign, 2024 rules as I've already incorporated many from the UA anyway. My players will choose if they want to migrate their characters or not. Many have said they already planned to lol especially the barbarian.
Honestly, I think Im gonna wait it out. My 4 year campaign wrapped up before all this happened, and the Spelljammer homebrew Im building is gonna take a while- so my hope is that they do compendium of the subclasses with the new updates. But we’ll see.
Push comes to shove, I might do some homebrewing if need be, as of right now I’ll watch and learn
Honestly I do not like the paladin changes. Making divine smite a spell COMPLETELY breaks multiclassing with Barbarian. Since you can't cast spells while raging. But previously you could smite while raging because it wasn't classed as a spell but a class feature.
To be fair, Barb is good enough now to not need a dip
@@andyenglish4303 Even still, Paladin Barbarian was super fun.
Was the barbarian\Paladin for character flavor or mechanic abuse? If it was flavor, the barbarian has a subclass for it in 2014 and 2024.
it also causes other problems, counterspell now can knock it, beholders can turn it off, ...
After my current campaign, which will last until next year probably, I will probably just chill a bit from 5e. Maybe play OSE, 3.5 or Avatar Legends, whatever the rest of my group wishes. But also for narrative reasons, we kinda need a chill after the current campaign which works as a climax for many of our previous games.
I already adapted many of the new changes, mainly the weapon masteries and class changes. I told my players they can choose to play with the new class or subclasses, but no mix-and-match old subclass with new class or backwards. Also adapted feat at 1st level.
I love most of the mechanical changes, though I still miss when they attempted to make all subclasses at the same levels for all clases, and having only 3 main spell lists. I don't like at all the new art direction though, the new dragon design look horrible to me, specially the blue one.
We haven't talked about it at our table, I don't know what I would bring for a new campaign. It would be a lot of work to overhaul everything to being the new system and it still doesn't seem flushed out all the way. What module would you try and make work for the new system? All monsters might have to change their stat blocks, not to mention the changes to interactions with objects, races, inspiration etc.
For me i probably wont get the new PHB i mostly homebrew and looking through the playtest and saw that they were going to fix up spell lists (Arcane, Divine, Primal was nice and clean) have all subclasses gained at the same level (because bard, rogue, sorcerer subclass progress sucked while Fighter, Paladin, Wizard, Warlock had good progression) Wizard actually getting more features other than just spellcasting, these made me want to buy it but then they threw alot of these ideas out.
If they wanted to focus so much on backwards compatibility they should have just kept the focus on adventures and not the PHB being compatible, what wont be fun is DM's and players arguing over 2014 or 2024 books. They will try and mix class/subclass and argue over what features and rules from each book they should use. While new players are going to be fine, unless they play in a group that uses 2014.
Interesting to see, how they handle one level dip into 2014 twilight domain cleric from 2024 character. And multiclassing at all.
I’m a really new DM - we’re going to stick with the 2014 stuff, but probably homebrew case-by-case things if players want to use 2024. I’m a little worried that I’ll get lost in that since I am so new, but I’m willing to see where it takes us!
Back in the day, with 3.0 to 3.5 the improvements were enough of a motivation to have all players re-do their current characters to 3.5 .
Those days were all pencil & paper though...
I think the biggest motivation will be 'how does this affect D&D Beyond, and the character creation mechanism there'?
My table of players includes 56 year olds and 27 year olds (playing with the nephews!) and us old-school players started our 5ed characters on paper, but after about level 6 converted to the D&D Beyond platform. And now that I am DM'ing, having all of the players using the online character sheets makes it super easy to keep track of what's happening to every player.
I'm going to be very curious to see how they handle this in D&D Beyond and what headaches it might create for a GM trying to balance the game!
And the other thing is that everyone at our table is playing with subclasses that are not represented in the new books (yet) so I don't see a lot of incentive to switch over to the new rules, and then having the headache of trying to do the conversions ourselves.
I will do what I always do. Follow what allows my players to have the most fun at the table, also what helps me make more shenanigans
Love your videos! My fiancée is playing a wildfire Druid, so, I’d love to see how you would update it for the new rule set (particularly with how the WFD uses wildshape to bring forth the familiar etc). I’m playing an oath of heroism paladin (the UA paladin that eventually became the oath of glory) and whilst it’s unlikely you would talk about that in one of your videos, I’d still love your thoughts on how it might be ported over to the 2024 rule set:)
Are you planning on making videos on the TOV core and monsters?
Needs conversion is not "backwards compatible" imo. With enough manipulation any game system can be "converted" to another.
Even a cursory look at the new rules makes it obvious that only adventures will still be compatible. The classes have changed significantly. Pallys don't even have smite as a class ability anymore, it's a spell.
You mean subclasses. Because you can play with old classes in new adventures without issue. The only issue comes when you try to mix new classes with old subclasses.
Maybe the species is another point of issue but the backgrounds are not much
After the OGL debacle our DM has specifically stated they are done with WOTC and not giving them any more money, so we will be sticking with 2014 rules.
I reviewed the older Subclasses during the UA, and frankly, there isn't much cause for issues with using them on the new Class chasis.
If background determines weapon abilities and stat bonuses, would something like dumping such abilities be effective? I also wonder if the next book after the core 3 will be on the other species as it were.
I’ve been waiting for this
Ted, thank you for your content! At my table, we are preparing for these incoming changes by making our own 6th Edition. This 2024 vs. 2014 gobbledygook is just exhausting, and that's coming from the guy who has made an Excel doc that catalogues every 5e monster, class, subclass, race, feat, item, etc. from "official" and 3rd party sources. I am slowly but surely updating every single one to include our homebrew rules and to reflect what my players and I find the most fun. This whole idea of "you can do this, but you can't do that" from WotC is a good guideline, but I'm sure people are going to get confused. Bottom-line: just play however you want to play, If you want to port a 2024 subclass to a 2014 class, go for it!
In my newest Dragonlance Shadow of the Dragon Queen game, I encouraged people to use the UA for 2024. They're a bit mixed up, some using it straight, some using one class and multiclassing in another (2014 to 2024), some straight old 2014 and some using a 2014 class with a 2024 subclass (not ideal but I'm watching to see how it works). But I want to transition mostly to 2024 if possible for any NEW games
Since i use roll20, it depends on how they integrate it . Bit very likely ill be using 2024 exckusive when 2024 come. But as for running campaigns it depends on roll20
Great video. This is exactly what I've been wondering about. Also do you know if they are only selling 2024e through DnDBeyond? I can't see it on any other retailer. I'll ask my DM what he's going to do. We use Roll20 but I think one of the players uses DnDBeyond. Will they force the digital copies to 2024e automatically?
Flexibility is key. Let the table be what it needs to be, relative to player needs and overall consensual reality.
Very beginner question: does the Player’s Handbook contain enough rules/mechanics that a group could start a short “test drive” game as soon as the new book is out, or would they have to wait on the Dungeon Master’s Guide and Monster Manual as well?
There are things in the DMG that is required to play the game... always has been. Monster Manual is also important, as it contains all the _monsters_ your party needs to fight.
This is why the "test" is usually sold as the 'Beginner's Box' or the 'D&D Essentials' Box. I suggest you try to find a person who has the 2024 compatible Box and see how it goes.
Considering that I have a lot of third-party content that has subclasses and new classes and even new species in these other settings including Humblewood and the new Royoko , I'm going to have to figure out how to play the old subclasses and the like with the new rules
can you find out if D&D Beyond will still let us build characters using the 2014 PHB Rules
For me, the capability of DnD Beyond to accommodate subclasses from the 2014 rule in the new 2024 rules will determine which set of rules my groups will follow. Online gamers tend to be drawn to the newest version of games, so if there are bugs, glitches, or lots of extra work on players or DM to play the old subclasses with the 2024 rules, the old subclasses will be jettisoned. Instead, if DnD Beyond makes their continued use seamless with the new rules, they won't be restricted.
If it’s possible to be able to utilize anything my players want, then that’s what I’ll do
So where did they drop the armor and weapons prof to? Are they back in the classes?
I don't run a game but I would suspect some to do a wait and see approach on adding or switching to 2024 set. I would wait until all three core books are out before bringing in any 2024 stuff. This could, in theory, allow some campaigns to finish up which could have been an idea when the release dates were originally announced. It would be interesting to see how well a hybrid group would do. It is totally possible that the 2014 characters would not fair as well under the 2024 rules .
The group I am currently in will probably stick with all 2014 stuff, there are some newer players and mixing the rules might cause some confusion. I will be buying the books when they come out in case I play with another group that would use the 2024 rules so I can reference them when needed.
Our table plays a new system every 4ish months and hasn't touched 5e in a couple years. Will give 6e (or 5.24e) when it drops with no access to the old stuff.
So, my question is, if you level up a 2014 character, do you have to use the new versions of the feats or the old versions? Say I make a Variant Human Paladin with Great Weapon Master. That's viable in 2014 and Great Weapon Master didn't have a level prerequisite. Or if I take it later, do I have to use the new version because this isn't during Character Creation?
Not planning on picking up the 2024 books for a while.
I will probably switch but I will let players try to port stuff and work with the players to port stuff for future games. i think wizard should come out with a PDF to give suggestions on how to update all these subclasses though it could be broad or could it just be a little focused especially on someone more recent ones that won't get enough date for a while it doesn't have to be official but it could be suggestions on how to update.
In my campaign I'm transitioning from 2014 D&D to ToV. I'm curious to see if 2024 characters would be a good fit for ToV and vice versa.
Tempest cleric is the koolest. Cleric. Scribe wizard tempest cleric 2 is such a fun multiclass. As you can retest your spells to lightning if you pick carefully. And I love that. Being able to wear mithral plate and max damage a lightning bolt on a wizard is such a good feeling thing
In my current campaign, I'll be using and let my players use any changes from the new book they like. It's easy enough to home brew the super minor changes 1DnD is bringing.
But when I start my next campaign, I will be switching to DC20. I'm done supporting Wizards.
In my current campaign, I'll keep using the 2014 rules so nobody gets confused and adding some of the new rules to weapons and items. Basically, adapting the new martial rules and such but making cool items for the party to choose to use, or not.
I’m going to hybrid this. My wife really wants to play an arcane archer (optimization aside) and I intend to plug her XG Subclass into the 2024 fighter.
My players are going to have fun and any issues that come up are just going into my little green book as another lesson learned.
What am I doing as a DM? I’ve decided to use Tales of the Valiant as my 5E core. If 2014 5E is required for player options I’ve done the ToV conversion as per its guidelines.
I suspect I’d do the same for 2024 player options.
But we will be using ToV as our base for the foreseeable future.
Just call it 5.5 and say "Your old materials will mostly work until they don't. You might have to make some judgement calls when there are contradictions"
I'm still in the middle of a campaign, so what I'm going to do is absorb the PHB '24 when it comes out and slowly switch over as I get more familiar with the changes to the rules. One of my players is a druid, the other is a monk. Both may want to switch over. We'll wait and see. I have another player who is a tempest domain cleric so no porting him, we'll just ride that one out. The next campaign will be a full 2024 rule set campaign.
Anything not included in 2024 yet still "5e" as in published by WOTC since 2014 is fair game, whatever Crawford, etc. say. Tempest Cleric, Artificer, Mastermind, and the others didn't die, they just didn't get massaged.
For multiclassing, could you take levels in the 2014 fighter and then go 2024 rogue?
As a DM, I'll allow either year, but I'm using 2014 condition rules until they release a 2024 DM Screen. Not out of spite or anything. I just need the screen for conditions. There are wayyy too many conditions. I'm not memorizing a long list of conditions, especially when some conditions even have conditions inside of their conditions.
We're gonna stick with 5e up until they release the updated SRD next year and then we decide if we're gonna migrate at all.
So what about multiclassing a 2024 class with a 2014 class has anyone thought about the issues thst might arise from that.
Hey every one! I translated the 2024 Champion fighter text that was blurred! The following is a 1 to 1 text of the screenshot during the TH-cam video. However, the only trouble I had was the word "Bloodied" found in Heroic Rally. That may be a different word, as I couldn't ever fully tell what it was supposed to be using de-blurring Technology.
CHAMPION Sub-Class
A Champion focuses on the development of martial prowess in a relentless pursuit of victory. Champions combine rigorous training with physical excellence to deal devastating blows. Withstand peril, and garner glory. Weather in athletic contests or bloody battle, Champions strive for the crown of the victor.
Level 3. Impowered Critical:
Your attack rolls with weapons and Unarmed strikes can score a Critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20 on the d20.
Level 3. Remarkable Athlete
Thanks to your athleticism, you have Advantage on Initiative rolls and Strength (Athletics) Checks.
In addition, immediately after you score a Critical Hit, you can move up to half your speed without provoking opportunity attacks.
Level 7. Additional Fighting Style
You gain another fighting Style feat of your choice.
Level 10. Heroic Warrior
The thrill of battle drives you toward victory. During combat, you can give yourself Heroic Inspiration whenever you start your turn without it.
Level 15. Superior Critical
Your attack rolls with weapons and Unarmed Strikes can now score a critical hit on a roll of 18-20 on the d20.
Level 18. Survivor
You attain the pinnacle of resilience in battle, giving you these benefits:
Defy Death. You have Advantage on death saving throws. Moreover, when you roll 18-20 on a death save, you gain the benefit of rolling a 20 on a death save.
Heroic Rally. At the start of each of your turns, you regain Hit Points equal to 5 plus your Constitution save modifier if you are Bloodied and have at least 1 Hit Point.
I'm additionally wondering if multiclassing between editions works. For example can I multiclass 2024 fighter with 2014 barbarian?
If I multiclass a 2014 subclass do I have to use the same rules for the other class and subclass I pick or no? I don’t think they’ve mentioned this so far.
I’ll be happy to buy all the clearance 2014 players handbooks. I don’t need any of the new stuff but more books to let new players use is always a good DM move.
I plan to go with Tales of the Valiant in the future. Soft transition in my current campaign and perhaps harder one in future campaigns. Although TOV still did my BFF Paladin dirty so SAD! Might stick to OG (2014) 5e for how smites work!
If you play a 2014 character in a game campaign built upon 2024 the 2014 character will be grossly underpowered. Using 2024 characters to run through 2014 adventures, will have a much easier time with it as 2024 characters have greater power, even at level 1.
Adventures were already underpowered compared to what PCs could do...they've *always* required DM adjustments. I don't see this as a sticking point.
I mean that depends on the class. A 2014 Wizard is still gonna be fine along side a 2024 Fighter
@@andyenglish4303 you’re comparing apples & oranges. The question is, how would a 2014 Wizard compare to a 2024 Wizard?
@@DM_Bluddworth The point is there is no reason to use the 2014 versions of some classes. The only time I expect people will be doing that is to avoid nerfs they don't like like divine smite and Moon Druid. Ie in the rare instances where 2014 was stronger or idiosyncratically to their liking... Outliers
Current game is probably going to move to 2024, which means some subclasses will have to be moved over. Going forward after this campaign I will probably just allow the 2024 stuff. However, there is a good chance by the time all of that is over with there will be other books and things for 2024 so it probably won't be an issue.
For my table, I'll probably do 2024 if it exists but if it doesn't then I may allow a 2014 version.
Meh, I’m going to run KP and MCDM next year and try out a few others. If WotC is going to push to 6e, then I might as well try others before taking the plunge.
I'm so hyped for these books , it's a good time to get some fresh abilities and subclasses in the game
The real sticky point is let's start talking multiclassing can a multiclass a 2014 with a 2024
I’m running a monthly game that still has another two years to go. We have 8 players and 2 DMs. As much as I love the idea of trying out the new rules, spells, features, etc. I don’t plan on trying to convince all the other players and my co-DM to switch rules when we are all also involved in other D&D campaigns that have not announced any plans to switch rules. Why confuse everybody? If people start asking to switch, then I’m happy to have that discussion, but I’m not about to try to lead a full conversion for my own fancy.
Both our campaigns are basically just gonna keep doing the 2014 rules. One already has lots of homebrew stacked on, it will just stay as it is now; the other will use pure 2014 rules with basically no homebrew, but will allow players to bring up the possibility of using 2024 stuff which might be approved on a case-by-case basis (DM decides).
As the forever DM, I think our first 2024 campaign will just use the new 24 stuff, but as we continue to play, I will let player use either 14 or 24 subclasses and species. I do think anything updated, like assassin or orc, will be the new version at my table.
Everyone rags on the 2014 background feature, "It's so useless. There is no point." I still like them. I have actually used the features. Sure it really has minimal mechanical effect but it is great for, ya know, role playing.
In all honesty I am going to be switching to Tales of the Valiant once I am done with my current campaigns. I am not going to switch the players over half way but I do intend to convert everything over in foundry as well.
Import anything from 2024 into 2014 that works well in my mind. Should there be any updated versions of what my Players are already using like Subclasses, I will most likely defer to them similar to how I defer to something once it is made official if a Player is using UA material.
This is how backwards compatibility works in general. For example, the PS5 could run PS4 games, but not the other way around.
This works pretty much as I expected it to.
I intend to do a hybrid group for my active table that I'm dming. I know that the group that I'm in as a player intends to remain a complete 2014 group because, despite me offering content sharing of the newest books with the DM, the DM has zero interest in the newest ruleset. Which, all the power to them on that decision, I just disagree. lol
I'm waiting to see what they do with Moon Druids. They were severely nerfed in the UA we saw, so I imagine people may continue to play the 2014 version.
I would also remind folks that WotC is talking about levels 1 and 2 as beginner's material, and suggesting that experienced players begin at level 3, where the subclasses would all be online anyway.
Wizards just needs to admit the game exists between levels 3-14 only
Gonna play with the new rules but players can use either group of classes (built within their own rules sets)... including TotV and Level Up Advanced 5e. Any inconsistencies that pop up I will adjudicate at the table.
I have moved my group to Tales of the Valiant. We are happy so far.
If surprise rules changed, how is that going to work with the 2014 Barbarian who can rage and not be surprised?
For my currently running Dragons Tyranny Campaign, i will offer everyone to update everything to 2024 Classes/Subclasses if applicable and if it isn't, i am willing to homebrew those subclasses together to fit in the 2024 base class and subclass style.
don't plan on updating for some time, I have a lot of regular 5e stuff that I won't need to and am happy with playing as are my players. IF someone suggests something, we can decide at that point, but for now it will be modified (homebrewed) 5e.
A mountain dwarf would still be an amazing character even in 2024 ed.
I mean I've always understood it this way. When you break it down it seems kind of obvious. I think better language would have been forward compatible even though we don't really use that terminology. And like you said it seems like the 24 rules will end up just feeling better overall
I will most likely buy the books out of curiosity but I don't think the other people I play with will see any need to change to the 2024 rules.
I'm definitely going to be looking at Swords bards and Swashbuckler rogues to see if they need any porting to 2024. I'm going to homebrew a mixed parentage chart too, with a chart of cultural racial features for characters who were raised by adopted parents (ie a dwarf raised by elves).