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i want too know about the manifestation of the leeds devil aka jd ,the manifestation i believe is the negative energy that has been poured into the land from the tragic story surrounding the views on a deformed child which was swarm too be the devil by un educated quakers at the time of the 13th child genociss. and through centries of negative energy conjuring up the malevilant sprite none now as the jersy devil! this manifestation has never killed a human due too laws in place which every living soul abides by,evrn demons as demons mostly if not all feed on fear not flesh in the realm of the living,and fear through spoken word makes it stronger enabling the manifestation time and time again!
I feel like Orcus beginning as a mortal man onto lichdom & then demonic is quite plausible. I wish I could say that fifth age Dragon Lance touches on this....
You know what I really like about these videos? You do research. You admit it when things are unclear or if you don't know something. Keep up the great work!
One hundred percent agree. Watching his playlist in an almost continues fashion I've been seeing some of the inconsistencies in the FR lore but he points them out as well. Jorphdan you are doing great work I wish you all the best for your channel. I've even told my D&D group about you as they don't know anything about FR history!
Hey Jorphdan, just wanted to say thanks for what you do here. Your content is helping an old gamer like me, who's been out of it for years, get back into the game with friends who are new. Keep up the good work man!
Well, I am bit late, but I feel like The Lady of Spiders (I know, her title is The Spider Queen) Lolth should be mentioned. Her lair (or layer), the Demonweb Pits, are a part of the Abyss, at least as far as 5E and Drizzt books go. I do not know whether she is considered a prince/princess, but she is very powerfull. This is mostly personal, as most of my "stories" deal with the Drow Elves a lot.
She just so happens to be one I know a thing or two about. I will be cheking some of your other videos on things I am NOT so familiar with. I need/want ALL the lore for my games/books. Btw, that was quite a quick response, i dod not expect that. Well, it is 4 in the morning here, so that is that. :D sub
Thank you for posting the books you found this material in, since a lot of people don't do it and it helps those who actually want to get these books to learn about the subject in more detail.
Seems there is a follower of the Demon Lords who disliked this video (?) As for Orcus, he was retconned to originally being a primordial in 4e. Before 4e, it was they said: he was a mortal and that stuff.
Dagon is pronounced "Day-Gon", from Lovecraft influence. Love the videos. They're helping me learn so I get a bigger picture of the world and they're short.
Actually, Lovecraft didn't invent Dagon. He named it after an ancient Babylonian/Mesopotamian god of the Sea/Fish whose name was Dagon. He is represented as a man with a mermaid-esque body and a hat that looks like a fish in many depictions (Some actually argue that this is the origin of the Catholic Pope's hat. The "Mitre of Dagon".)
Side Note : Tharizdun, The Mad God, is actually the god who created the Abyss. Though i do not know if he is the one that made orcus or baphomet "immortal".
That's only in 4e, though. The Abyss in prior editions predates Tharizdun, who's exclusively a Greyhawk god. Orcus started off as a mortal necromancer priest that died and clawed his way up from mane to balor to demon prince.
you may also find additional information from many 1e supplements. Temple of Elemental Evils talks about the fight between St.Cuthbert and Zuggtmoy. Tome of Horror has traces of Orcus's scheme.
*this is a little off topic but do you guys ever realise whenever gods fight the whole forgotten realms just looks at each other and go "oh no, here we go again."*
I know this video is somewhat old but I am thingking of an end of the world with all the demon lords teaming up under the rule of Orcus wich causes them to slay asmodeus and win the blood war. Orcus becomes a deity and lords over the demons AND devils who attempt to take over Toril. They do and the adventurer party is seemingly the only ones to escape to another world. Bit it turns out many from Toril escape as well. On my channel (no vids yet) I will explain it in detail. BTW Jorphdan your videos are so helpful and it's nice to have 1 single reference instead of many so that I don't have to piece them all into 1 resource because I have it here! Thanks Jorphdan!
The Demoninomicon isn’t a Forgotten Realms book, it’s a Points of Light book. A lot of the Points of Light cosmology was retconned into being true for the Realms as well thanks to the Spellplague, so some of it probably applies, but I wouldn’t be confident guessing how much.
my favorit demon lord is yeenoghu, he is so crazy and savage he literally just wants his gnolls to kill everything and than have them fight for the carcasses that remain and his art is crazy cool imo
My favorite demon lord is Oublivae who is a demon that keeps any one lord form having a clear advantage rule the rest as well as seeking out the annihilation of mortal kingdoms for fun.
Your missing citations come from dragon magazine. That’s where Orcus being born a mortal is (AJ picker cites the exact issue in one of his videos I believe)
Modron march. Dead Gods and Tales from the infinite staircase all dealt with the same backstory of the drow goddess Kiaransalee ( i think) killing orcus using " the final word" and him becoming an undead god known as tenebrous. He then used the infinite staircase which left behind a corruption that was the impetus for those adventures. He slew and usurped primus and triggered the modron march. All in search of his rod which contained part of his lifeforce and could restore him. Planescape is the shit!
First of, thanks so much for these. after years of absence from dnd and now finding a group of totally inexperienced players this is a great channel to get (back) into it. I would personally love a video on the current state of fearun, it's political landscape etc. and maybe a video (or 3) about the major cities. but no matter the subject of coming videos Thanks so much for making them!
Where is The Pale lady? :D Probobly the most powerful demon that ever existed. More ancient than most devils or demons and also known as (rumors) "The mother of Demons."
I heard a different origin story entirely for the demons, namely that the Obyrinths (or more specifically the Obyrinth Lord Pale Night, the Mother of Demons) created a race called the T'anari and that this the race that Demogorgon and others belonged to, though yes I've heard Orcus be called a mortal. I suppose conflicting origin stories though works out neatly enough when you are talking about Chaotic Evil though.
Check out Shane O'Connor's Brief History of Orcus....though it has some holes and doesn't mention the Bloodstone stuff, it is a worthwhile and quick read.
For the full story you must read dead gods, the great modron march and tales from the infinite staircase. All planescape adventure anthologies that tie in together
I'm trying to find the info you mentioned about Baphomet and Orcus's alternate backgrounds and I'm about to go crazy. I know I've read it some where but it's not in fendish codex I or 2 , it's not in the book of vile darkness nor is it in Iggwil's Demonomicon or any of my other source material. I know I've read it but i'm not sure where. The only place left I can look is possibly one of the old dragon mag articals.
Fiendish Codex 1 page 128 "Those who have served Orcus longest claim that the Prince of the Undead was once mortal, and that his long struggle from larva to balor to demon lord instilled in him an instinct for survival that has allowed him to cheat death itself." I'm sure there's more but that's the first thing I came across.
Hey Jorphdan, been watching your videos for awhile, before you got really well known. Love your stuff! I'd love to see a video series covering specific breeds of demons, like a Maralith, and maybe briefly go over a notable demon
demogorgon appearing in Salvatore's latest trilogy/series was shocking and awesome - - speaking of Salvatore, no mention of Lloth which I find an oversight
The "Dead Gods" Planescape adventure is where Orcus' story is laid out. Also maybe the 3.5 Book of Vile Darkness -- idk. TMG did a show here on youtube, discussing orcus, and he explains it all there.
I'm about to run Baldur's Gate, Descent into Avernus and I'm on like, my 10th video of these. I read the Drizzt series ages ago, but otherwise had no way to rebuild my knowledge of the world at large (since the module is campaign specific). Thanks so much for making these! Huge help.
Yeah Xanathar’s Guide to Everything picked up the Final finished edition of those demon spell as summon lesser demon and summon greater demon and infernal calling for a devil👍🏼💯
The Faceless Hunger is D&D's least subtle Lovecraftian mythos reference, if not Its only: he is azathoth, the Blind Idiot God, who is the embodiment of astral chaos and apathy. The HP mythos too says his followers are fools to believe summoning him brings anything but destruction
I've read that Orkus was just a random bottom of the barrel fresh from the ichor lowest demon thing and he just kept combining with others (i can't remember what the lowest mindless ones were called) and survived till he became the lord he is now. Also that Demogorgon is his staunch enemy and demogorgon hides from him in his palace that actually Dagon is at the bottom of. So Dagon controls Demogorgon kinda and they both hate Orkus...
the far realm is not an evil place, nor are all aberrations necessarily. many are, of course, but mostly just obligatorily predatory and their fundamental incompatibility with the normal planes just makes them dangerous and mutagenic to the area and beings around them. obyriths are not from the far realm and are absolute evil in every respect. they ENJOY the suffering they cause and are evil just for the sake of being evil. That said, there a lot of trivial parallels between them but they are fundamentally very different beings.
I would have loved to see a reference to Sess'ineck, the only one that dared bail out of the blood war and literally banished his layer, the tenth, to not have to fight anymore
I found the following in Dead Gods, a Planescape adventure for 2nd edition: "...before [Orcus] became an Abyssal lord, he worked his way up through the ranks of the tanar'ri [demons]. Before that, he was a larva, and before that he lived as a mortal." My 1st edition Manual of the Planes lists Orcus as a god of the Abyss but no additional details.
According to the Ghostwalk Campaign Option "Vilest of all gods, Orcus is a powerful demon who became a deity by exchanging power for mortal worship." Now that was as of 2003, so take out of it what you will.
Hello, I was wondering if you knew of any links or websites with more information on Garash the primordial? I’m thinking of a home brew with him as the BBEG
Typically planer travel is done via portals. There are interlocking portals that connect all the inner and outer planes together. This is necessary because most of the planes are infinite so traveling with a ship wouldn't work. But maybe in your game that's how the planes of existence work, nothing wrong with that :) If you want interplanetary travel D&D, you should look up Spelljammer.
Really digging this stuff. Was planning on introducing Demons into my campaign. The planes are definitely a weak spot in my knowledge. Also being able to come up with stuff for what the abyss looks like is just crazy. I gotta take the dive at some point I guess.
It's my understanding that with the faceless Lord the Lord of slimes you have an interesting situation as his mind is elsewhere what you refer to as The Faceless Lord is only as body his mind is elsewhere kind of like the forest God from Princess Mononoke when they suffer his head
If I remember correctly Orcus was once an evil mortal: -He was slain and went to the Abyss -Rose through the ranks to become a demon lord -Was slain again by an upstart demon lord -Came back to life again because he had so many worshippers and influence
I reaaaally like the lore tied to Pale Night. The idea that every other Demon Lord took on an appearance in this new reality but Pale Night refused out of, more than any other DEMON, disgust of this new reality. She toils over the creation of demonic creatures in the hopes of creating perfection that will usurp all the planes and turn them into a reflection of her previous existence. She delights in the torment of good planar beings, and has a "gallery of souls" of her victims.
In the case of missing background for D&D lore, I like to go to the actual myths that inspired the particular character. Orcus was the Roman demon of oaths and punished oath breakers. This throws a rub into D&D alignment mechanics because any being that enforces oaths sounds like it should of lawful alignment, not chaos. Orcus was often depicted by his Roman worshipers as a kind of immortal super cyclops with a big beard and club. His name became conflated with the afterlife he ruled also, which is extra confusing, referring to just as "land of the dead". Perhaps an addition to his canon in D&D then could be he started off as a devil and became corrupted by the demons he was sent to punish for breaking oaths. This would have been a huge blow to the devils and maybe make them reconsider any all out assaults on the Abyss.
I've played D&D and then AD&D for years it was a lot of fun. We didn't dwell on the details of lore and "truth" because let's face it this stuff is stuff of our infinite imagination in context of the game. I also realize that there are those out there that take debate about these "facts" very seriously too. My adage is to encourage fun and comrade when playing these characters and not let yourself get consumed by the details that us mortals are not meant to know. My two copper pieces all. Enjoy.
I think the channel overall started as a way to understand the realms and d&d mythology. But it's evolved into here are some ideas to spark your own story. Or at least I hope that it has.
Orcas was once a Holy Night who betrayed his God and his order and became a blackguard who attracted the attention of the mother of Chaos who birthed his soul into the form of one of the first demon Lords.
These videos are great and give a good overview of the forgotten realms. Any chabce that you are going to update videos when New information is published? For example this video and the nine hells with information from Mordenkainen’s tome of foes?
Yes, now that I have MToF I've been reading up and I think an updated video on the blood war with some corrections to this and my Nine Hells video may be in order. :)
There's a lot here that is contrary to my own understanding about the Abyss. I thought Demigorgon was created by those fleshshaper demons that the Queen of Chaos used made him when she was pumping out more powerful demons. I've also seen a lot of things that support that Orkus worked his way up from a Lemur so I'd be willing to believe him having been a mortal or just having been "birthed" from the Abyss as a lowly lemur originally.
IF you're a demon who were Born from 12.th layer of abyss then killed on the 13.th layer of abyss. Do you die permanently or respawn back in 12.th layer of your origin?
Love it! You are doing awesome work, getting better everyday and I love your pronunciation work now. You aren't struggling and you've gotten spot on! I feel like half the time Wotc cringes every time they think about 4e lore because it seems like there was some major power struggles over the lore reigns then.
I feel the founding members of the Abyss, Demogorgon, Baphomet, and Orcus, have unclear origins to allow DMs to mold the "Big Bads" to their own purposes and their idea of a villain.
Good Video, and Pronunciations. Instant Sub. It would have been interesting to mention Oublivae "Queen of Desolation" (and one of the sexiest D&D Characters imo,) and Lolth - of the Demon Web Pits - since Drow are quite popular. Aesthetically speaking - Baphomet & Orcus are completely B.A. (depending on designs, Orcus 4th Edition is a favorite design of mine, and Baphomet in Neverwinter Online was a great design as well.) Malgo-demons are another favorite design - they remind me of the Classic DOOM Demons. Also - Balors. The most bad ass Demons around, to me at least. Basically - a Balrog without the body of flames. (That LoTR Balrog was... unforgettable...) The Klurichur (assuming I spelled that right) is fascinating - basically a Balor on 'roid rage - the fact that a single Klurichur can tear through The Abyss, Layer by Layer, while amassing a berserk hoard of Demons along the way - makes for a great Demon ploy - I think Klurichur and Balor together plus a Demon Army, and a few Demon Lords could rip and tear The 9 Hells a new one - or least do some major damage. Nice to mention Graazt - don't hear about him much. Keep up the good work!
my favorite demon lord is jubilex, I killed enough mobs by slimes I created then I turned around and summoned jubilex and brought him in to wipe out an enemy party. then I turned around and made him a priest.. he was already a God, and now he groveled down before a God because he didn't need to do anything more for the world haha
I believe the lore on demons is WAY too specific and concrete, much like the Catholics did with angels back in the day -- they overemphasized peculiar properties of things which were never really meant to be made into reality. So, I say suss out what would be real, given your configuration of the universe and go with it, without worrying about stepping on the toes of prior demon-knowledge which is spun up in the gods as needs demand and any given tine.
Does anyone here know anything about Beshaba, the goddess of bad luck? I know she resides in the Abyss somewhere, but I'm interested to find out more about her, as a character I play as in a campaign I'm in is linked with her.
In the FR Campaign Setting for AD&D it says she resides in the abyss, the wiki says the 13th layer of the Abyss. The goddess Tyche split in two forming Tymora the goddess of luck and Beshaba the goddess of misfortune. I don't think she's in the Abyss any longer, the 3.5 book "Faiths and Pantheons" states she lives on her home plane "The Barrens of Doom and Despair" wherever that is.
I believe the minor history for orcus as a mortal and as a "god named teneberious" was mentioned in the 3.5 hordes of the abyss and teneberious was later a pact magic vestige in 3.5 tome of magic. I believe the story went he had attained divinity but was then murdered before taking his Orcus identity but I would have to re-read hordes of the abyss
@@relaxedatmosphere7336 i don't know why i put hoards of the abyss. Yeah i have that on pdf. Oh i see it was 3 yrs ago. I hadn't gotten dead gods yet 😆 that explains it
You may not know this but the reason none of can remember how we know Orcus orgins is because high magic was done to wipe him from the memory of all living creatures and it worked for a time.
What I do not understand is, those creatures seem to devine powers and their portfolio seems to have overlap with (e.g.) Moander's. How come that the so many devine creatures (chaotic, evil) that have the same portfolio, more or less?
I've already been summoning demons though. I just summon it behind my enemies and let it have their way with them. Summoning demons with low Charisma also helps.
Orcus' mortal origin was from 3rd edition, I believe. In forth, they redid his backstory, along with a bunch of other old demon princes, as a primordial. 5th edition changed nothing from 4th.
Can you play as a low level demon or devil? If you hide your form from the rest of the party? Something like the guy who secretly played a skeleton. (look up Cloak and Dagger "Skeleton Tales".)
Isn't Orcus worshiped by orcs. I'm pretty sure I read that in 4th or 3rd edition. Or The gods orcs worshipped died and from his death Orcus was born, and started worshiping him
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i want too know about the manifestation of the leeds devil aka jd ,the manifestation i believe is the negative energy that has been poured into the land from the tragic story surrounding the views on a deformed child which was swarm too be the devil by un educated quakers at the time of the 13th child genociss. and through centries of negative energy conjuring up the malevilant sprite none now as the jersy devil! this manifestation has never killed a human due too laws in place which every living soul abides by,evrn demons as demons mostly if not all feed on fear not flesh in the realm of the living,and fear through spoken word makes it stronger enabling the manifestation time and time again!
@@jamesedwards6589 See Videos by AJ Pickett his Channel The Mighty Gluestick
Orcus Was an evil sorcerer when he was alive and then died and went to the abyss and later on became a demon lord
Only 666 layers are ever evident perhaps? The remainder being the charging port for it all? 🔮
I feel like Orcus beginning as a mortal man onto lichdom & then demonic is quite plausible. I wish I could say that fifth age Dragon Lance touches on this....
You know what I really like about these videos? You do research. You admit it when things are unclear or if you don't know something.
Keep up the great work!
One hundred percent agree. Watching his playlist in an almost continues fashion I've been seeing some of the inconsistencies in the FR lore but he points them out as well.
Jorphdan you are doing great work I wish you all the best for your channel. I've even told my D&D group about you as they don't know anything about FR history!
Agree.
I really want to know more about Garash. The idea that he delved into the heart of the abyss and disappeared... very cool.
Orcus being mortal and descending is from the eldritch wizardry supplement for the original D&D, he also had the same story in D&D 1st edition.
It can be just a legend in new editions.
7:00 So Juiblex is like that guy at parties that noone wants there, but they also don't feel like telling him to leave. He's kinda just there.
Hey Jorphdan, just wanted to say thanks for what you do here. Your content is helping an old gamer like me, who's been out of it for years, get back into the game with friends who are new. Keep up the good work man!
+exmalobonum1 that's great! Thanks for the comment!
As a brazilian player, it's always awesome to see artwork from Tormenta in a foreign video 💖
Well, I am bit late, but I feel like The Lady of Spiders (I know, her title is The Spider Queen) Lolth should be mentioned. Her lair (or layer), the Demonweb Pits, are a part of the Abyss, at least as far as 5E and Drizzt books go. I do not know whether she is considered a prince/princess, but she is very powerfull.
This is mostly personal, as most of my "stories" deal with the Drow Elves a lot.
+Johny Shadow no you're right! It was an oversight.
She just so happens to be one I know a thing or two about. I will be cheking some of your other videos on things I am NOT so familiar with. I need/want ALL the lore for my games/books.
Btw, that was quite a quick response, i dod not expect that. Well, it is 4 in the morning here, so that is that. :D sub
+Johny Shadow welcome :D
She is only a Lesser deity mind you.
I've always kind of disliked Lolth.
Thank you for posting the books you found this material in, since a lot of people don't do it and it helps those who actually want to get these books to learn about the subject in more detail.
Seems there is a follower of the Demon Lords who disliked this video (?)
As for Orcus, he was retconned to originally being a primordial in 4e. Before 4e, it was they said: he was a mortal and that stuff.
none of my followers disliked the video. i should explain that i slew baphomet and tore his "divinities" out of him to become a demon lord.
OH. the pun at 7:58 was amazing. thank you.
It takes a lot to mold a good pun
I always knew you were a FUNgi
I'm glad we all have so mushroom in our hearts for these
Who is winning this pun completion? I'm not keeping spore.
I tip my caps to you both.
Dagon is pronounced "Day-Gon", from Lovecraft influence. Love the videos. They're helping me learn so I get a bigger picture of the world and they're short.
Actually, Lovecraft didn't invent Dagon. He named it after an ancient Babylonian/Mesopotamian god of the Sea/Fish whose name was Dagon. He is represented as a man with a mermaid-esque body and a hat that looks like a fish in many depictions (Some actually argue that this is the origin of the Catholic Pope's hat. The "Mitre of Dagon".)
Side Note : Tharizdun, The Mad God, is actually the god who created the Abyss. Though i do not know if he is the one that made orcus or baphomet "immortal".
Kyle Livingston source?
@@davewilson13 This is like...way later, but. I'm fairly sure this is stated in Elemental Evil?
That's only in 4e, though. The Abyss in prior editions predates Tharizdun, who's exclusively a Greyhawk god.
Orcus started off as a mortal necromancer priest that died and clawed his way up from mane to balor to demon prince.
you may also find additional information from many 1e supplements. Temple of Elemental Evils talks about the fight between St.Cuthbert and Zuggtmoy. Tome of Horror has traces of Orcus's scheme.
*this is a little off topic but do you guys ever realise whenever gods fight the whole forgotten realms just looks at each other and go "oh no, here we go again."*
I know this video is somewhat old but I am thingking of an end of the world with all the demon lords teaming up under the rule of Orcus wich causes them to slay asmodeus and win the blood war. Orcus becomes a deity and lords over the demons AND devils who attempt to take over Toril. They do and the adventurer party is seemingly the only ones to escape to another world. Bit it turns out many from Toril escape as well. On my channel (no vids yet) I will explain it in detail.
BTW Jorphdan your videos are so helpful and it's nice to have 1 single reference instead of many so that I don't have to piece them all into 1 resource because I have it here!
Thanks Jorphdan!
The Demoninomicon isn’t a Forgotten Realms book, it’s a Points of Light book. A lot of the Points of Light cosmology was retconned into being true for the Realms as well thanks to the Spellplague, so some of it probably applies, but I wouldn’t be confident guessing how much.
The Forgotten realms is only 1 crystal shphere. I thoguht the outer-planes were common to all crystal shperes?
@@agsilverradio2225 The Points of Light setting is its own thing. It is not one of the Crystal Spheres of Spelljammer.
You say don’t go summoning any demons however my Saturday group has been summoned by the demons.
my favorit demon lord is yeenoghu, he is so crazy and savage he literally just wants his gnolls to kill everything and than have them fight for the carcasses that remain and his art is crazy cool imo
My favorite demon lord is Oublivae who is a demon that keeps any one lord form having a clear advantage rule the rest as well as seeking out the annihilation of mortal kingdoms for fun.
Your missing citations come from dragon magazine. That’s where Orcus being born a mortal is (AJ picker cites the exact issue in one of his videos I believe)
I love the Great Modron March on Planescape Setting with Orcus in the shadows
Modron march. Dead Gods and Tales from the infinite staircase all dealt with the same backstory of the drow goddess Kiaransalee ( i think) killing orcus using " the final word" and him becoming an undead god known as tenebrous. He then used the infinite staircase which left behind a corruption that was the impetus for those adventures. He slew and usurped primus and triggered the modron march. All in search of his rod which contained part of his lifeforce and could restore him. Planescape is the shit!
First of, thanks so much for these. after years of absence from dnd and now finding a group of totally inexperienced players this is a great channel to get (back) into it.
I would personally love a video on the current state of fearun, it's political landscape etc. and maybe a video (or 3) about the major cities.
but no matter the subject of coming videos Thanks so much for making them!
+Fenris Omen a video like that sounds like a great option. I'll look into it once I catch up to current events
Where is The Pale lady? :D
Probobly the most powerful demon that ever existed. More ancient than most devils or demons and also known as (rumors) "The mother of Demons."
She's called Pale Night, not Pale Lady.
And don't forget the Queen of Chaos - erm, Girl Power (?)
I heard a different origin story entirely for the demons, namely that the Obyrinths (or more specifically the Obyrinth Lord Pale Night, the Mother of Demons) created a race called the T'anari and that this the race that Demogorgon and others belonged to, though yes I've heard Orcus be called a mortal.
I suppose conflicting origin stories though works out neatly enough when you are talking about Chaotic Evil though.
Orcus: read Dead Gods. It pretty outright says he used to be mortal.
That was the missing piece of the puzzle. Thanks!
Check out Shane O'Connor's Brief History of Orcus....though it has some holes and doesn't mention the Bloodstone stuff, it is a worthwhile and quick read.
I absolutely love Dead Gods!
Oh thank God, I’ve been searching for this for so long!
For the full story you must read dead gods, the great modron march and tales from the infinite staircase. All planescape adventure anthologies that tie in together
I'm trying to find the info you mentioned about Baphomet and Orcus's alternate backgrounds and I'm about to go crazy. I know I've read it some where but it's not in fendish codex I or 2 , it's not in the book of vile darkness nor is it in Iggwil's Demonomicon or any of my other source material. I know I've read it but i'm not sure where. The only place left I can look is possibly one of the old dragon mag articals.
Another commentor mentioned a Planescape book "Dead Gods" Ring a bell?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Gods
No but I did find mention of Orcus starting as a human in dragon mag # 359 page 62. artical 1D20 villains.
+sara max good job with your detective skills!
Fiendish Codex 1 page 128 "Those who have served Orcus longest claim that the Prince of the Undead was once mortal, and that his long struggle from larva to balor to demon lord instilled in him an instinct for survival that has allowed him to cheat death itself."
I'm sure there's more but that's the first thing I came across.
Hey Jorphdan, been watching your videos for awhile, before you got really well known. Love your stuff!
I'd love to see a video series covering specific breeds of demons, like a Maralith, and maybe briefly go over a notable demon
The Hordes of the Abyss for 3.5 made 3.5 worth playing for me. I haven't found that in 5th edition, yet. Never did in 4th or 2nd edition.
1:35 shout out to dooblydoo
So Demons are Chaotic Evil (disorganized) while Devils are Lawful Evil (hierarchy) - good to know.
demogorgon appearing in Salvatore's latest trilogy/series was shocking and awesome - - speaking of Salvatore, no mention of Lloth which I find an oversight
The "Dead Gods" Planescape adventure is where Orcus' story is laid out. Also maybe the 3.5 Book of Vile Darkness -- idk.
TMG did a show here on youtube, discussing orcus, and he explains it all there.
I'm about to run Baldur's Gate, Descent into Avernus and I'm on like, my 10th video of these. I read the Drizzt series ages ago, but otherwise had no way to rebuild my knowledge of the world at large (since the module is campaign specific). Thanks so much for making these! Huge help.
That's great James! I hope you enjoy Avernus! I'm (hopefully soon) getting a Campaigns Explained video on it. But 2020 has been crazy so far! :D
Yeah Xanathar’s Guide to Everything picked up the Final finished edition of those demon spell as summon lesser demon and summon greater demon and infernal calling for a devil👍🏼💯
Demons AND Nathan Explosion?! I love this video.
Dude these videos are very informative!! Thank you very much!!!
The Faceless Hunger is D&D's least subtle Lovecraftian mythos reference, if not Its only: he is azathoth, the Blind Idiot God, who is the embodiment of astral chaos and apathy. The HP mythos too says his followers are fools to believe summoning him brings anything but destruction
While I do appreciate the comparison, should we not agree that Chtulu is the least subtle reference? I mean, his name is right there.
I've read that Orkus was just a random bottom of the barrel fresh from the ichor lowest demon thing and he just kept combining with others (i can't remember what the lowest mindless ones were called) and survived till he became the lord he is now. Also that Demogorgon is his staunch enemy and demogorgon hides from him in his palace that actually Dagon is at the bottom of. So Dagon controls Demogorgon kinda and they both hate Orkus...
Great video for both the Devils and Demons
All sounds very outlandish for this mere mortal to comprehend.
I did some research for a demon related thing i'm brewing up and some mentions some demons and demon lords have lovers who were other named demons
Tharizdun and/or the Far Realm may be a good topic to cover?
Covered him a little bit in an earlier video, but perhaps a more in-depth one for the future? I'll see what I can dig up.
the far realm is not an evil place, nor are all aberrations necessarily. many are, of course, but mostly just obligatorily predatory and their fundamental incompatibility with the normal planes just makes them dangerous and mutagenic to the area and beings around them. obyriths are not from the far realm and are absolute evil in every respect. they ENJOY the suffering they cause and are evil just for the sake of being evil. That said, there a lot of trivial parallels between them but they are fundamentally very different beings.
I would have loved to see a reference to Sess'ineck, the only one that dared bail out of the blood war and literally banished his layer, the tenth, to not have to fight anymore
Mold joke got a subscribe. Nice one.
But seriously though, these manage to be informative without being full of cringe. I absolutely love it.
I found the following in Dead Gods, a Planescape adventure for 2nd edition: "...before [Orcus] became an Abyssal lord, he worked his way up through the ranks of the tanar'ri [demons]. Before that, he was a larva, and before that he lived as a mortal." My 1st edition Manual of the Planes lists Orcus as a god of the Abyss but no additional details.
For someone who has never played dungeons and dragons and probably won't I'm really into the lore.
that's fun though, I really enjoy mythology from all areas. One of the reasons I started researching D&D worlds :)
also I believe the 3.5 book of vile darkness mentioned Orcus being mortal.
According to the Ghostwalk Campaign Option "Vilest of all gods, Orcus is a powerful demon who became a deity by exchanging power for mortal worship." Now that was as of 2003, so take out of it what you will.
No that's great, thanks for the information. I'll check out that supplement. Great comment :)
Hello, I was wondering if you knew of any links or websites with more information on Garash the primordial? I’m thinking of a home brew with him as the BBEG
So if i wanted to make a plainer travel campaign would the plains be planets and there would be space ships to travle
Typically planer travel is done via portals. There are interlocking portals that connect all the inner and outer planes together. This is necessary because most of the planes are infinite so traveling with a ship wouldn't work.
But maybe in your game that's how the planes of existence work, nothing wrong with that :) If you want interplanetary travel D&D, you should look up Spelljammer.
Pale Night is not mentioned? Shame!
Really digging this stuff. Was planning on introducing Demons into my campaign. The planes are definitely a weak spot in my knowledge. Also being able to come up with stuff for what the abyss looks like is just crazy. I gotta take the dive at some point I guess.
Feel free to take liberties as suits you. A lot of the canon is cool broad ideas with really derpy details, imo.
Orcus was a primordial, it's said in doing battle with the gods he killed one and made it's skull and spine his weapon, his much feared mace.
To paraphrase Tertullian "they work (together) because of their mutual hatred of each other." Pretty much describes the situation well.
I was just reading up on this subject today and was having some confusion. Thanks for the work you do to keep DMs alive.
In a sea of demanding players, FR-Explained is the lighthouse that will see you home. Or something like that. :P
It's my understanding that with the faceless Lord the Lord of slimes you have an interesting situation as his mind is elsewhere what you refer to as The Faceless Lord is only as body his mind is elsewhere kind of like the forest God from Princess Mononoke when they suffer his head
I actually herd Orcus was one of the devils top pit fiends until he started a revolt after his wand corrupted him, and was thrown into the abyss.
If I remember correctly Orcus was once an evil mortal:
-He was slain and went to the Abyss
-Rose through the ranks to become a demon lord
-Was slain again by an upstart demon lord
-Came back to life again because he had so many worshippers and influence
Isn’t the Orcus mortal story in the 3.5 manual of the planes? Not sure, it’s been a while. Gonna have to dig up the book and find it.
I reaaaally like the lore tied to Pale Night. The idea that every other Demon Lord took on an appearance in this new reality but Pale Night refused out of, more than any other DEMON, disgust of this new reality. She toils over the creation of demonic creatures in the hopes of creating perfection that will usurp all the planes and turn them into a reflection of her previous existence. She delights in the torment of good planar beings, and has a "gallery of souls" of her victims.
In the case of missing background for D&D lore, I like to go to the actual myths that inspired the particular character. Orcus was the Roman demon of oaths and punished oath breakers. This throws a rub into D&D alignment mechanics because any being that enforces oaths sounds like it should of lawful alignment, not chaos. Orcus was often depicted by his Roman worshipers as a kind of immortal super cyclops with a big beard and club. His name became conflated with the afterlife he ruled also, which is extra confusing, referring to just as "land of the dead". Perhaps an addition to his canon in D&D then could be he started off as a devil and became corrupted by the demons he was sent to punish for breaking oaths. This would have been a huge blow to the devils and maybe make them reconsider any all out assaults on the Abyss.
I've played D&D and then AD&D for years it was a lot of fun. We didn't dwell on the details of lore and "truth" because let's face it this stuff is stuff of our infinite imagination in context of the game. I also realize that there are those out there that take debate about these "facts" very seriously too. My adage is to encourage fun and comrade when playing these characters and not let yourself get consumed by the details that us mortals are not meant to know. My two copper pieces all. Enjoy.
I think the channel overall started as a way to understand the realms and d&d mythology. But it's evolved into here are some ideas to spark your own story. Or at least I hope that it has.
Orcas was once a Holy Night who betrayed his God and his order and became a blackguard who attracted the attention of the mother of Chaos who birthed his soul into the form of one of the first demon Lords.
These videos are great and give a good overview of the forgotten realms. Any chabce that you are going to update videos when New information is published? For example this video and the nine hells with information from Mordenkainen’s tome of foes?
Yes, now that I have MToF I've been reading up and I think an updated video on the blood war with some corrections to this and my Nine Hells video may be in order. :)
The Abyss is a mere gateway to the Far Realms..... the hole at the bottom is getting bigger so more things can get in!
I refuse to ignore the PH in your name and will forever pronounce your name JORFDAN
the blood rift sounds scary as hell for even a demon.
The abyss is like onions. They both have layers
There's a lot here that is contrary to my own understanding about the Abyss. I thought Demigorgon was created by those fleshshaper demons that the Queen of Chaos used made him when she was pumping out more powerful demons. I've also seen a lot of things that support that Orkus worked his way up from a Lemur so I'd be willing to believe him having been a mortal or just having been "birthed" from the Abyss as a lowly lemur originally.
IF you're a demon who were Born from 12.th layer of abyss then killed on the 13.th layer of abyss. Do you die permanently or respawn back in 12.th layer of your origin?
They just reform. As far as that rule goes: the abyss is the abyss, no matter the layer. Hope that helps.
Love it! You are doing awesome work, getting better everyday and I love your pronunciation work now. You aren't struggling and you've gotten spot on! I feel like half the time Wotc cringes every time they think about 4e lore because it seems like there was some major power struggles over the lore reigns then.
Notes: larger crystal Tharizdun births the abyss from shatters and one of the shards is the one she finds
In first edition orcus lost his wand and it was declared an artifact
Well done
For a hint of Orcus’s origins, check out the Planescape adventure Dead Gods.
Thank you Jorphdan!
😃
I feel the founding members of the Abyss, Demogorgon, Baphomet, and Orcus, have unclear origins to allow DMs to mold the "Big Bads" to their own purposes and their idea of a villain.
Good Video, and Pronunciations. Instant Sub.
It would have been interesting to mention Oublivae "Queen of Desolation" (and one of the sexiest D&D Characters imo,) and Lolth - of the Demon Web Pits - since Drow are quite popular.
Aesthetically speaking - Baphomet & Orcus are completely B.A. (depending on designs, Orcus 4th Edition is a favorite design of mine, and Baphomet in Neverwinter Online was a great design as well.)
Malgo-demons are another favorite design - they remind me of the Classic DOOM Demons.
Also - Balors. The most bad ass Demons around, to me at least.
Basically - a Balrog without the body of flames.
(That LoTR Balrog was... unforgettable...)
The Klurichur (assuming I spelled that right) is fascinating - basically a Balor on 'roid rage - the fact that a single Klurichur can tear through The Abyss, Layer by Layer, while amassing a berserk hoard of Demons along the way - makes for a great Demon ploy - I think Klurichur and Balor together plus a Demon Army, and a few Demon Lords could rip and tear The 9 Hells a new one - or least do some major damage.
Nice to mention Graazt - don't hear about him much.
Keep up the good work!
my favorite demon lord is jubilex, I killed enough mobs by slimes I created then I turned around and summoned jubilex and brought him in to wipe out an enemy party. then I turned around and made him a priest.. he was already a God, and now he groveled down before a God because he didn't need to do anything more for the world haha
I believe the lore on demons is WAY too specific and concrete, much like the Catholics did with angels back in the day -- they overemphasized peculiar properties of things which were never really meant to be made into reality. So, I say suss out what would be real, given your configuration of the universe and go with it, without worrying about stepping on the toes of prior demon-knowledge which is spun up in the gods as needs demand and any given tine.
Does anyone here know anything about Beshaba, the goddess of bad luck? I know she resides in the Abyss somewhere, but I'm interested to find out more about her, as a character I play as in a campaign I'm in is linked with her.
In the FR Campaign Setting for AD&D it says she resides in the abyss, the wiki says the 13th layer of the Abyss. The goddess Tyche split in two forming Tymora the goddess of luck and Beshaba the goddess of misfortune. I don't think she's in the Abyss any longer, the 3.5 book "Faiths and Pantheons" states she lives on her home plane "The Barrens of Doom and Despair" wherever that is.
Intriguing. Thanks for the prompt reply!
Check out Faiths and Avatars. Beshaba is detailed there for 2e, from duties of the church to adventuring gear to her avatar.
2:20 isn't that a pic from warhammer? also, awesome stuff! :)
I believe the minor history for orcus as a mortal and as a "god named teneberious" was mentioned in the 3.5 hordes of the abyss and teneberious was later a pact magic vestige in 3.5 tome of magic. I believe the story went he had attained divinity but was then murdered before taking his Orcus identity but I would have to re-read hordes of the abyss
Planescape: Dead Gods
@@relaxedatmosphere7336 i don't know why i put hoards of the abyss. Yeah i have that on pdf. Oh i see it was 3 yrs ago. I hadn't gotten dead gods yet 😆 that explains it
Is there a reason for the shift back to Demons/Devils after the term used to be Tanar'ri/Baatezu?
Not sure, I think the Satanic Panic was over so they just decided to call them what they were originally.
I'm really surprised at the lack of a mentioning for Lolth, considering she made the Drow.
You may not know this but the reason none of can remember how we know Orcus orgins is because high magic was done to wipe him from the memory of all living creatures and it worked for a time.
What I do not understand is, those creatures seem to devine powers and their portfolio seems to have overlap with (e.g.) Moander's. How come that the so many devine creatures (chaotic, evil) that have the same portfolio, more or less?
I've already been summoning demons though. I just summon it behind my enemies and let it have their way with them. Summoning demons with low Charisma also helps.
Great video!
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Welcome!
So demigorgon was a primordial and he swimed in the blood vortex of the shard and became less powerful, show strong was he before that ?
All Zuggutmoy really wants is a fun guy... but all she gets are mushrooms and moulds. So sad....
Orcus’ origin as a mortal came from Planescape’s “Dead Gods”.
Baphomet possessed my Minotaur Character in the Waterdeep campaign.
Demogorgon is a Tanar'ri, not a primordial. Probably he was created by Pale Night (or Pale Lady AKA the Mother of demons)
Orcus' mortal origin was from 3rd edition, I believe. In forth, they redid his backstory, along with a bunch of other old demon princes, as a primordial. 5th edition changed nothing from 4th.
Can you play as a low level demon or devil? If you hide your form from the rest of the party?
Something like the guy who secretly played a skeleton. (look up Cloak and Dagger "Skeleton Tales".)
Want to know that, too.
No mention of Lolth?
Isn't Orcus worshiped by orcs. I'm pretty sure I read that in 4th or 3rd edition. Or The gods orcs worshipped died and from his death Orcus was born, and started worshiping him
The true gigachads are those how farm demons and just bullie them back to the abyis and claim the xp even through the cost