Th Grand list of drivers for LePetit!!! - Part 1
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- Dear Viewer, the link to the coffee-station, or, as I could call it, the Tea-house is right here:
www.buymeacoff...
This is a way to support my channel in a hassle-free manner, and you can contribute as low as 2$ if you feel compelled. If so, I welcome your support with a warm welcome, it goes a long way to allow me to continue with this channel in the future! All your support will go towards improving this channel, and towards the tweaks and components I explore on the channel.
János
Contents:
List of currently available drivers suitable for the LePetit project!
With an explanation of which to pick to suit specific demands.
Hi Janos, I like the FF125WK, it is probably the most balanced one of the FF series. Also, the FF series has been designed for bass reflex cabinets. Where as the FE series has been designed for back loaded horns. The FF series did not exist in the 70's so perhaps "Le Petit" would have been designed with an FF speaker if it was available at the time. The FFxxxWK series have a specially shaped dome that is patented to reduce resonances, so perhaps there is no need to treat them. I would start with them as they are.
I still have a set of Fostex FE103SOL drivers. They are like the original FE103en drivers but with a bigger magnet and painted orange, which looks nice. I may try those. BTW, the current Fostex FE range is the FExxxNV2, so there was a slight update on the NV. Unfortunately, they are still not as linear as the older ones. (I am not sure what Fostex had in mind).
If you want to spend more, then the Tang-Band W41879 with an F0 of 55Hz, Neodymium magnets, under-hung design (all Tang-Band) and an X-Max of 5mm (WOW) would be on my short list. It can handle 25W RMS and is a 6 Ohm driver, what is there not to like?
And may I add my wild card: The Visaton B100, is very reasonably priced (In Europe). It is the newer and smaller brother of the well known B200 that has in Europe a bit of a cult following. I also had a quick look at SB Acoustics that make very good affordable speakers, but I was disappointed to find out, they had nothing. Monacor has a cult speaker the SPH-60X but it is a full blown 5" speaker, that may be too big for the Le Petit.
Thank you Hugo for the superb overview & updates!!!! I left out the W41879 only because of its low efficiency. Even though it's listed as 87dB/Wm, the graph clearly shows 85dB/Wm... that much loss in efficiency will change the character of this speaker very much. Hence, I chose the most efficient TBs ; ). However, this would still make a pretty good choice for those who have high power amplifiers, and certainly would offer a unique sound, and would quite likely play the loudest of all driver choices with least fatigue. 👍🎶 So, certainly deserves a mention, thank you!
@@realworldaudio I went back on the TangBand website and you are right about the graph. Then I looked at the W31878, which is not only 40% cheaper but has an efficiency of 88dB which corresponds with the graph. The F0 is 75 Hz, that could just be OK (and still lower than the FE103NV). If you can go up with the diameter, you can go down as well. I think this could be an other wild card. The 4" version trades some efficiency for a deeper bass response, but they clearly did not want it to show a much lower efficiency than it's smaller brother.
You‘re almost the only one to pronounce „LePetit“ in the right way! Chapeau! Respect! 🙏🤗No, I won‘t say any names! 😇🤓
Hey Janos, what you said about the notch filters is exactly right and it does not matter if it is a passive notch in the x-over or if you notch it down digitally. You notch it down and it loses dynamics and live-feeling. Especially on a speaker like Petit it would be a shame. In "normal" speaker designs I am not a notch fan either, but it can help if you use it wisely and not all over the board.
Remember the legendary Thiel speakers. Very impressive speakers from the 90s with well build cabinets. All drivers were running on 6db x-over, but then with notch filters all over the place. It was a very sweet sound. Everything sounded soft, shiny, polished and perfect but with absolutely zero life. You could listen to these speakers for 10 hours straight without listening fatigue but without excitement either ;-) At the end you are bored to death ;-)
YEP ........................Bored to death !!!!.............I experienced the same with some "perfect" amplifiers !!!!
Have a nice day ........appreciated your comment 🙂
Torsten, Frank, I second all your observations to the T! ; ). Boring, lifeless, bored to death... so accurate. A single very high quality notch filter on a complex design can smooth things out without completely taking the life away, when the harm is less than the benefit. However, notches on all filters is a sure way for boring sound, killing dynamics and life...
I had an eye on the FF series, but that metal cap did give me goosebumps..
just when You think to have finished thinking a topic, János will pick it up and widen the ideas tremendously 🤩
Hello, The FF125MK is your #1 choice for ''Le Petit'' .I want to take the plunge...But I see In your ''La grande'',you use this driver? Did I misunderstand? Or is the size of the cabinet and your unique way of creating a [ i say like this] a ''line'' port on the bottom of the cabinet?
I would love to hear a le petite with markaudio CHR120
Hello Juergen, the slot port version of Le Petite (I called it La Gorda) was built with the Mark audio MAOP7.2 driver, and it was a great success.
cool cat makes me smile
thank you for very interesting video.
A graphic eq would betray your ideal "at chair response", you can then buy a suitably coloured driver and get rid of the eq.
There’s a petty well regarded vintage 8” frd branded as Lafayette. Alnico 16ohm 25w and from memory an 8ohm alt was available. Manuf by Goodmans Wembley UK. for Lafayette Radio co. I’d imagine they’d b nice in the Petites with a vac valve amp. and are usually only around $200 for a nice set from a dealer. There was also a triaxiom model (with the centre mount horn tweeter). I had the 12” Triaxioms which you know I loved in those big plywood boxes.
Sorry about your silver cables not working. The worst thing to spend so much time for no result. If your frustated go for a surf. Mother ocean is very calming, all those neg. ions drain the frustrations away and you’re in the right place for it. A surf mat and a pair of Rainbow Flippers (made in Hi) and you’ll feel much better mate😁
Eddie, you are quite right I badly need some ocean time!
The Lafayette/Goodmans would like a bigger cabinet to work optimally, in the LePetit would not have much bass. Would still sound nice, very nice though! ;) Although I would put it in a cabinet like my AO, that would work much better. Will go into that in future videos, how to make them work ; )
no issue with notch filters or any other type of filter done correctly. the driver is a filter the cable is a filter and the box is a filter
The box and driver are not simply filters - they are energy storing devices. Especially the driver, where the voice coil (and the output transformers secondary coil - and also, its super-massive primary coil..... ) acts as an electric spring (choke stores voltage and then release stored voltage.) The notch filter compromises the electric storage capability of the voice coil (and output transformer secondary), by shorting that stored energy.
This stored energy can be tremendous. Audio note did some experiments showing that while their SET amplifier delivers 8W into a 8R load with a sine wave, but with the same signal they see up to 80W translated by the driver from the same sine wave. Add feedback, or a notch filter, and this effect disappears. While the measurement showed serious 2nd THD on this 80W output, yet, easy peasy - just hit it with 2W, and you still get clean 20W, way more than the 8W into a resistive AKA highly notched load.
@@realworldaudio I don't know why you're talking about output transformers for, not really relevant. no not going to affect the energy in the vocal coil opposite is the case, if its a rl will givenergy to the vocal coil.
As a side note...........Who remembers the old LEAK sandwich coned speakers ?
I find your presentations fascinating. Keep them coming. You know a lot about the Altec drivers and VOTT. Have you ever considered doing a presentation on the Altec Model 19 speakers? And possibly how they compare to VOTT.
You can add a Magnet to increase the flux in the gap if you are not satisfied with the performance. Furthermore always think about the self inductance Le, which is extremely important and, if you compare the FF-types Fostex to the ordinary FE-types, you will find, that Le is the difference, and, with the Sigma-types as well. The old 103Z used for the Le Petit did not have a low Le typical for today Sigmas from Fostex, but, the special thing with this old 103Z (before 1995) was a only 3dB drop at 10kHz 30 degrees off axis - I did not yet find something that can compare in today available drivers. Overlooked feature making the difference.
I’m not into any notch filters. Nope. It kills it.
YEP............when the treatment is worse than the curse...
Du bist fast der Einzige, der LePetit RICHTIG ausspricht! 🤔🤗Nein, Namen der meisten anderen Sünder fallen jetzt nicht….😇
Läppetitt
Dear Viewer, the link to the coffee-station, or, as I could call it, the Tea-house is right here:
www.buymeacoffee.com/RealWorldAudio
This is a way to support my channel in a hassle-free manner, and you can contribute as low as 2$ if you feel compelled. If so, I welcome your support with a warm welcome, it goes a long way to allow me to continue with this channel in the future! All your support will go towards improving this channel, and towards the tweaks and components I explore on the channel.
János
Hi Janos .. Have you heard Western electric 755A .. if so how would you rate it against Altec755 A, Diatone and some others ?
The WE 755 series and Diatone P610 series need a much larger cabinet than the LePetit (just like other 6-8in single drivers). Technically one could squeeze them into the LePetit box, but it would be a waste of the driver, you would be missing out most of what they can do in the bass department.
Hi Janos,
I got a few questions regarding the Le Petit build. I hope these are interesting enough for others to be answered.
1. If i decide for the FF125WK as my driver of choice. Would I keep the dimensions exactly the same or would it make sense to alter it.
2. Would I need to alter the length or radius of the bass reflex port?
3. What kind of cables and binding posts could you recommend? Would it benefit to wire them directly (chassi to amplifier) like you did with your voigt pipe?
4. At which height do I optimally mount the driver. The original plans have conflicting information about that. (The drawing shows the driver in the middle of the upper part, the picture on the last page slightly underneath)
5. Because the dimensions seem to be good fit, I am planning on using an ANUK AN-J speaker stand for the Le Petit. (480mm x 330mm x 230mm h,w,d) Would this influence the height at which the driver needs to be mounted.
Best regards,
Florian
Hi Florian:
1-2: video coming. In short, you can use original plans with original port size.
3. My VP has binding posts, not direct wired. Omitting binding posts is best for sound but sure way to destroy driver sooner or later. Use copper or silver tube for a binding post. Use total AWG 10 internal wires f your choice.
4. I think it mentions an actual distance - if not, you could check with Jürgen what was the distance he used.
5. do not change the height of the driver, it is linked to the height of the port.
Good luck, superb job!
@@realworldaudio Hello Janos, thank you so much for your detailed answer. My drivers just arrived and after watching your most recent video I am now ordering my wood and building it exactly to the original dimensions. 🙏.
@@jazzmetalaudiophile Awesome, have fun with the build! ; Janos
Hallo Florian, kannst du deine Bauerfahrung bitte teilen? Meine 125wk kamen heute…
@@sebastianbenz2496 sehr gerne, ich lasse mir das Holz fertig zuschneiden. Das wird aber leider nicht mehr in diesem Jahr fertig. Werde dann ein Update geben sobald das Holz da ist
Hi what do you think about the Fostex FE108NS as a driver for the petit!? Thanks for your videos!
Hello , i hoop sone one can help me i like to bild the Le Petit.
But i have to models of ACR drivers FE103 Sigma And FE106 Sigma . But can not find any info about FE106 Sigma .Thanks for help. Bart.
Hello Bart, indeed, sadly I could not find any info either on the 106 sigma except that it is very efficient, 92dB/Wm, and even more promising than the FE103 sigma. In your place I would use the FE103 sigma first, as the original design was created for these, and I was only looking at alternatives because most people cannot find the FE103 sigma anymore. As you have it, you need look no further! For the build and assembly I'd recommend Jürgens channel, he has an excellent video series on step by step how he built it, with every detail shown. This is the start: th-cam.com/video/mADLIdHcCyg/w-d-xo.html Good luck, you will have a great time! János
what about the Lii Audio fullrange drivers?
They would be extremely bass shy in the LePetit. They need much bigger cabinets to start to bloom.
Hi Janos. Thank you, great video. I’m an analogue listener. When I understood you correctly you say that the Alnico would be the best in that case. Since this one is quite expensive I’m wondering if you could tell me how the other ones (FE103NV and FF125WK) handle the analogue sound? Is there a significant delta to the Alnico? What would be the best way to go for the analogue sound except with the Alnico?
I have not heard comparison between the FE103 & similar versions and the FE alnico. My observation is based on Alnico vs Ferrite/Neo in general, for the multitude of drivers I heard.
The best way for non-alnico for natural sound is: 1. paper cone 2. as high efficiency as possible 3. as high impedance as possible (at least 8 ohms, forget 4 ohms drivers).
However, the ultimate bottom line is matching the room and the amplifier, and that's why there's no single driver recommendation that will work equally in all the diverse conditions.
What about the MAOP 7 which might be an “upgraded 7P”?
Yes, I have covered it in a previous video. (About 10 days or so ago)
@@realworldaudio Thanks. I could not find that video. Would you know the title or have a link? Thanks again.
I found this video which is about a month old.
th-cam.com/video/N7FF3AjmmDE/w-d-xo.html
and port length and width with the different drivers?
Hi Janos I have Audio note LJx spkr .. I am thing of western 755 A driver .. if you have heard both .. I would like to hear from you the difference between these two drivers .. would it be an upgrade moving from AN to 755A ..
No, I have not heard the WE755A yet, so no direct comparison between the two. I suspect thought that the AN would be quite better at the frequency extension, but the 755A quite better on the midrange. So, choose accordingly, what is the preference. Although I have to say that very high level midrange is something we do not get exposed to, so until such thing is heard, we have no idea what we are missing. (Actually, I think high level midrange is more important for long term satisfying experience than frequency extension.)
Thank you for your video. Do you have experience with the Fostex FF 125 WK on a tube? And with digital music.
Hello, no, I have not heard FF series drivers yet, recommendation is based on the drivers build and the datasheet. It's the driver that I'd try if I were to build a pair of LePetits myself. ;
@@realworldaudio also in the original Cabinet of the LePetit or in your 2.0 Cabinet? Because I want to build the FF 125 in the OG Petit cabinet. Thank you.
@@SPH25 The FF125 would fit the original cabinet perfectly.
@@realworldaudio thank you for your quick response. I tried it and i already order my parts for the petit. I let you know how it works with this chassi. Thank you.
@@SPH25 Superb, please put it in the comments how it works out!; 👍👍✨✨✨✨ I'm quite curious. ;
Parles tu la langue de Bizet, Janos ?
Why is more over 20 Minutes your head to see and not any drivers or loudspekers🤷🏼♂️
A interesting speaker could be the 4" Onkyo om101. But not available now in Europa.
Big price difference between Japan and Europa. 58€ Japan 92€ here.