I have been ill since 2016. Had United Healthcare. Non of my claims were covered, I was too ill, just trying to survive and get better as a single mother to adequately fight United Healthcare. Subsequently I am in major debt due to all my rising health costs. I was forced to drain my retirement funds to pay my medical bills and so now owe federal taxes for this early withdrawal. This is inhumane and wrong! I do not condone murder but the systems in the USA need to be closely evaluated and new regulations implemented. Why does an insurance company have the power and right to pick and choose who gets coverage for tests and treatments? Basically they are deciding who gets to live or die. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!
I feel your pain and frustration as I too suffer 24 hrs a day and try to figure out how to live with pain. I’m truly sorry what you have gone through and are living with. Just wondering why you didn’t or haven’t changed insurance companies? Preexisting conditions cannot stop you from changing your health care .
I worked in healthcare for 30+ years, dealing with insurance companies to help our patients. United healthcare had a bad reputation with providers… They were reluctant to accept it. When I retired, I went for regular Medicare and a supplement. I don’t want an HMO deciding what kind of treatment I can have.
And not being able to access treatment because healthcare is about money not care and to me that's disgusting. They're just letting poor people suffer and die.
Yep it can I know all too well, then your trapped with terrible pain management and pills that you don't even want to have to be taking and are not making the pain stop its a vicious cycle
I had a C5-C6 injury at work and it took forever to get work comp to approve surgery. They had me see a quack of an orthopedic doc who wrote it up so it looked like I couldn’t have hurt it at work. I had already seen a neurosurgeon on my own and she and my main doc wrote letters for an appeal because they stopped my work comp pay too. I went through a lawyer to help. Ended up using my insurance for surgery and was extremely grateful as the pain really affected my mental health to the point I needed inpatient MH care for more than a week This was 9 years ago and I’m pain free since
We have paid health insurance 34 years. My husband got sick 5 days in ER and we owe 1000s and 1000s !! Maybe this guy stood up for all of us in a world that allows us to get rolled !!!!
Years ago, my husband was working for a company that had a good insurance plan. One evening he got into an accident where he broke a few ribs and his ankle. This was before we met and he didn’t have family nearby for support. He didn’t make enough to afford the hospital bills even with the insurance. When he told the company what happened and that he needed time off to recover, they let him go and he ended up living at a YMCA until he healed and could get work again. Thinking it about it just makes me sad and angry. So many of us Americans have similar stories.
I'm sorry about him having experienced this. Biggest problem is that the same people feeling sympathy for the killer are the same ones who refuse to vote for those who want to make the healthcare system more just. Two of my close friends care about a more just system, but they refuse to vote no matter my encouraging them. Same with a gob of my neighbors who refused to vote.
@ Thank you so much. Yes, exactly and it doesn’t make any sense to me. It’s layered but my gut says it’s prejudice, resistance to change, and putting politics before what’s best for them, the everyday person.
@@Delphine-bk24 Some folks just hate politics. Who knows, maybe they've never voted before or don't think that their votes matter. Bummed me out as they don't think of how their lack of participation harms those who are vulnerable, like me and so many others in America. Off topic, I met a really cool Columbian the other day and it was hard to smile much, knowing that people didn't care enough to vote to protect his rights, or rights for people on Medicaid like me. Frightens me so much to possibly lose health care. I remember the days that doctors told me that I should get counseling since my physical illnesses and injuries bring on depression and anxiety, because who can sleep well in so much pain? I kept telling them that insurance didn't cover it, plus when I did at times it was with a few of the worst counselors I've ever had, because I paid out of pocket, but was given a sliding fee due to his poor I was. I don't want to lose my counseling with the current one all because my insurance refuses to pay for it. The rich are evil. So I know that others are dealing with the same fear or worse and I pray that nobody else gets killed.
As an Australian , who has always received free healthcare for even the most complicated conditions, I can’t understand how Americans can tolerate the conditions this young man describes.
Same here in the UK we have the NHS... It's mind-blowing how it is in America... He was pushed for years and years of watching his mother suffer then himself.....he was pushed to this... I don't feel like he's a cold blooded killer that manifesto shows genuine empathy.... For what Americans are going through...he even apologies for the trauma he's causing(to CEOS family I'm guessing)... That is not a cold blooded killer. My heart breaks for him and his mother also....😢😢😢
It isn’t free healthcare. You pay a lot of taxes for these social nets. The US believes that each is responsible for their own well being or circumstance. Most do not want to pay higher taxes to support others social nets.
John and Lauren I think it might be really interesting for you guys to examine a man like Brian Thompson, who definitely has a higher body count than this Luigi. Maybe explain the detachment that Brian Thompson had with all the death and harm he was causing from a psychological standpoint.
I was going to say this! Anyone with no conscience for how he gets his money at the demise of countless suffering people probably isn't the best dad or romantic partner either as I don't think those traits turn off once crossing the threshold at home.
What a counter-current and brilliant idea! I'm afraid that most people at the top have the profile of sociopaths and psychopaths. I think the statistics are that psychopaths make for about 1% of the population (or is it 5?) You can't help but Venn diagram that with the 1% that rules the world...
The reason Luigi is punished is due to the societal taboo of his act. But this wasn't murder per se. There may be an element of revenge related to his mother, but due to the level of "acceptable" murder by this CEO, I believe this act can also be classified as an act of class war.
@tinazaccagna1459 And the physical deaths caused by denying claims and care. A doctor friend of mine once said: "To be a hospital administrator, you have to be a sociopath. You can't have empathy for the people you kill."
I don’t condone murder but our heath care system makes people angry and feel totally helpless in changing anything. We are going to see this occur again.
Absolutely. I feel like he just snapped after years and years of watching his mother suffer endlessly and just getting fobbed off time and time again....then his own pain on top.... Helplessness to the max. It's so bloody sad. 😢
Sadly, people have little understanding about how private healthcare insurance works. Not that i am defending it, but that does need to be factored in. Obviously violence is never the answer, but if this info about him is real, i can understand it.
I really pray this whole incident wakes everyone up to what is going on in the American health care system. Sad that it may take something like this.🙏🏼 Thank you both for your thoughtful and insightful coverage
I LOVE when you talk about Dostoevsky. I’m having a really hard time not feeling bad for this young man, and angry at a corrupt healthcare system that did this to him.
@@eflyz4880 I agree. I cannot defend murder, but this is heartbreaking. I also love Dostoevsky. It is very dangerous to cheer for someone shooting people.
How can we judge him if the system unnecessarily harmed his mother in a big way it sounds like. Did they screw him as well in paying on his back surgery health coverage? Justice would be hearing his story from him or close family to be able to decipher the truth in information coming out. The MSM lies and will do the bidding of their corporate overlords.
this kid had a severe injury that put him on another level mentally. PERHAPS he didn’t need such a surgery? I have seen this in my medical practice over and over.
As a social worker for over 20 years including in healthcare and hospice and now a individual therapist I am saddened by our system and feel bad for this young man we are broken in America I’ve worked in it!
@@Therapistmind I hear you! In social services for over 10 years. We struggle because of the lack of resources. Finding a mental health provider is pretty much impossible. Finding housing resources is extremely difficult. Running in circles.
AS A HOSPICE RN AND NURSE FOR ALMOST 40 YRS. AMERICA HAS MANY BENIFITS FOR FOLKS AS COMPARED TO MANY MANY OTHER COUNTRIES. THATS WHY SO MANY FOLKS COME TO AMERICA. KILLING IS NEVER AN ANSWER....HE WAS INDOCTRINATED. VERY SAD INDEED
I would NEVER condone an act of violence to solve a nationwide healthcare crisis, BUT...I'm certain a LOT of CEOs & COOs are hunkering down and looking over their shoulders for the last few days. If ANYONE can tell me exactly what a CEO does in a workweek that affords the salary of 10 Million dollars, please kindly respond below.
It's not what he does that gets him the money. It's what he prevents paying. Because the big pharma and wall street make the money. That's how the game works. I've sat in those board meetings being an auditor at an insurance company.
Medical PTSD is real!! The pain of seeing a loved one suffer! The powerlessness! Looking back on it and wishing you had tried another option instead of trusting the medical providers. It’s awful.
@battina868 It is a real thing 💯 I agree that if there is not a variant of PTSD under that umbrella, they ought to add Medical PTSD to the DSM. I had to watch as a man I cared deeply about being brutally beat up in a hospital at night by a group of men who terrorized & targeted people on the night shift. They kicked him into the ground & kicked his ribs & face. I still break down sobbing 36 years later, because I could not intervene against 3 thugs,..one was a karate expert & one was a 6' 7" man & the other man was also a total psycho. There are also horror stories of people who do "get help" in hospitals as well as people who are left to suffer everyday of their lives by being denied necessary medical intervention. Your comment made that memory come right back to me. It never gets better. It really shattered my heart 💔 The state of affairs in America is so far gone regarding Healthcare. Some people have great experiences while others experiences are truly nightmarish 😢😡
On the day of the shooting, the medical community that is mostly doctors and nurses, were sounding off on Reddit about the same issues with UHC that the gunman outlined in his letter. One post alleged that this CEO implemented an AI system that would auto deny claims of ppl who were in an older age group despite the fact that 90% of the claims were valid. The patient would go through the same ridiculous things in this letter as UHC kept denying benefits that patients paid for, in an attempt to delay or avoid paying patient benefits. Doctors spent countless hours each week, talking to UHC, sending notes, faxes, letters, peer-to-peer meetings etc.. to get their patient approved while UHC kept stalling. For cancer patients, this would be lethal and if the allegations are true, there needs to be a full investigation because this looks like fraud and murder in my opinion! My pet insurance is better than what is being said about UHC. After reading all of these grievances from members of the medical community, I felt angry too! Now I hope someone files a class action lawsuit , and criminal charges to follow if anyone died while waiting for their surgery, procedures or treatment to be approved, from what I read it sounded like the alleged death toll was very high. I’ll never understand how anyone could value money over human lives.
I work on the coding/billing side for a healthcare provider and I’ve been complaining for years about how awful UHC is. They request documentation for prepayment review then deny the claims alleging the documentation doesn’t support the service billed. Then we have to go through this whole appeals process within 30 days of receiving the denial proving to them that the documentation does in fact support the service. 🙄. It’s unnecessarily bureaucratic and clearly a delay tactic. Their hope is the provider won’t appeal in time, so they’re off the hook for payment.
The hospitals and clinics are corrupt in their own right. It's profits before people and they're always covering for each other. I call it 'the thin white line' In 2018 the 3rd leading cause of demise was med mistakes (according to John Hopkins) - yet how many are actually compensated for their loss? And JH listed the numbers of those they knew had passed from mistakes. What of those they didn't know about?
So in other words the corporate media is pearl clutching about how this "event" was so wrong.... while they're covering up for the same- wilful behavior of these companies while claiming this "event" was imoral. Hmm It is absolutely a double standard, reminds me of when the French did something about their monarchy....
If we lived in a government where we punished CEOs for their crimes at the same level that we targeted and penalized the poor for their poverty, maybe people wouldn't be driven by hopelessness to desperate acts. I don't condone violence, but there are no checks on the people in power. Some people are above the law, and it's only going to get worse. Our rights as a country and our rights as workers, came at the price of violent uprisings. You have visionaries like MLK, but you also have wild revolutionies like John Brown. I admire them both, despite my belief in nonviolence.
If you skip to 31:00 and listen to Lauren read Luigi's letter, it explains why he did what he did. It was exactly what millions of others have experienced, just as was speculated by many.
That was actually gut-wrenching to hear. It explains his motive clearly. I can't imagine how many Americans go through this nightmare. It's unbelievable. There's no words...💔
It's heartbreaking.... I'm actually in tears...... He just snapped after years and years of watching his mother suffer endlessly and getting fobbed off by the health care system time and time again...then his own pain just pushed him over the edge and he just snapped... He shows so much empathy in that letter though.. that's no cold blooded killer this is a man pushed to the edge.... 😢
@@EmiFromMarswe all suffer from trauma, including me, but you can’t have sympathy for him killing someone. Saying that he just snapped and he’s not cold blooded is naive and a slippery slope for others to do the same to they perceive as their abuser.
I found myself grinding my teeth in frustration (and disappointment) hearing Dr. John referring to Luigi as “anti-capitalistic and radicalized” which leads me to believe that Lauren and he have not [yet] had extensive medical issues and/or have sufficient wealth to not be affected by the class warfare of economic inequality, power dynamics and conflict of interests of “health” insurance companies. I don’t condone violence. I feel sympathy for Luigi and zero sympathy for the UHC CEO.
My 19 died at an ER visit died. Our insurance denied it and said “the ER visit was denied” because the visit “was NOT an emergency!” We fought it. Twice! And finally after 8 months our insurance finally paid then we paid. So frustrating! I feel like so many claims are auto denied! I do not have United Healthcare. Just wanted you all to know. Love HTC Channel!
That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in a long time! I’m so sorry for your loss and the added stress the insurance company must have caused you.
@@lesleuthright!? 😮I can talk about it now but ten years ago when it happened I couldn’t. My husband had to deal with it. Thank God for my husband. Thank you
As a person born and living in New Zealand with free healthcare I always felt for other countries like America where you need insurance and pay for healthcare. It must feel like a hopeless situation. Thanks Dr John and Lauren ❤
I agree with you, but when people tried to introduce universal healthcare in the US, people were in uproar saying: I won't pay for people who earn less then me. Everyone should pay for themselves. It is hard to make it work if the society is not in support
I'm from the UK and it makes me so thankful for the NHS. My father was sick with cancer for 7 years and all his treatments and hospice home care was provided by them and the care he received was amazing. When you make health about money and it directly affects the poor because they can't access care this is going to happen more and more.
@toma5153 that's insane and disgraceful in equal measure. I come from the UK where anyone can get care at anytime , they're not perfect but your not going to go bankrupt because you're sick, something you can't help.
I completely understand Luigi’s anger. My granddaughter’s back tethering surgery was denied in March 2025. We paid $25K out of pocket to be able to tether instead of fuse. It breaks my heart for families who fuse scoliosis backs still. So wrong.
Luigi comes from an affluent family who invests in the stock market and expects the highest possible profits. CEOs are under pressure from the shareholders, so please do not blame them for everything that's going wrong.
THIS is the deeper problem with insurance. It’s not absolute lack of coverage or claims being denied outright- it’s insurance covering only 1 of 2 possible treatments, with the more expensive (and medically preferable) one being denied. It’s absolutely horrific to know that better care is available but you’ve been relegated to 2nd class and so it’s beyond your grasp. When it’s your granddaughter, young and with so many years left to live, it must be unbearable to see her suffer. I can only imagine. These companies did not realize the resentment they were fostering, brewing right beneath their feet. They see it now. What a shame it took yet more loss of life to do that. It should not even be legal to offer a less expensive treatment that’s medically insufficient. This isn’t an airplane ticket we’re talking about, where you can fly economy and it gets you to the exact same destination as 1st class. These are human beings and permanent quality of life issues. Once a medical treatment is replaced with a newer more advanced technique (like tethering the vertebrae to help them slowly align properly, instead of fusing them together, when treating scoliosis), it should be illegal to sell the medically worse technique to people simply because they can’t afford the better treatment. The best treatment is the only one that it should be legal to perform (unless there’s some medical reason otherwise, obviously), and insurance ought to cover it so everyone gets access. End of story. Selling someone a second hand or “economy class” medical procedure because they can’t afford the real treatment is just crazy. Every other developed country on earth (and a fair number of less developed ones too) manages to do this except us.
The day after this murder, I got a shock bill from UHC… $575 for an in-network allergy test. They previously made a mistake with my kids’ pediatrician… after taking two kids to a specific in-network doctor, was told they made a billing mistake and was not in-network… had to pay like $2,000. This was a decade ago. Paid it… about 4 years later, they sent me a check for that $2,000 after an audit. Healthcare as an industry is slimy. It’s been years since a regular check up has not ended with my family walking out with an Rx we end up throwing away.
I read that under the leadership of CEO Brian Thompson, in a period of fewer than two years, claim denials *doubled.* He didn’t do poorly either…just like all.other.corporate.bigwigs. Filthy wealth, before a world, and currently, nation, that’s, in many ways, on its knees. I entertain no hope that we will see change any time soon. Wish I felt different, and hope I am incorrect.
How can that be legal? Don't we have regulations for insurance companies? I think i read it as at 32%. He'd only been hired in 2021 and took the denial rate from 10%to 32 in 3 year. I need to check that number to make sure.... no matter what, he doubled what the other companies have.
The last days I watched many videos from doctors describing exactly what the alledged Manifest described, regarding sending notes multiple different ways and being told pay still denied... to the point where doctors refuse UHC as provider and tell patients they have to foot the bill and figure it out with UHC on their own only to learn the patients also get the same denial. It was a pattern with UHC and they intently delayed so long till the doc or patient gave up. Thats no flaw in the System thats profit at the expense of peoples suffering... and to me thats no different than a drug dealer or a gangmember. You reap what you sow... desperate people take desperate messaures. And although I feel for Brians family its about time a big discussion needs to be had. People, employers, companies should stop to sign with UHC and let them go broke
@@terminus_null the patients who are ill and need to fight the denial often don't have the means (lawyer money), time (due to work) and strength (already weakend due to illness)... doctors no big billing department or time away from the patients to sit and fill out form over form ... so UHC only needs the longer breath...they almost never get taken into court.
I read that under the leadership of Brian Thompson, United Healthcare’s denials more than *doubled* in under two years. Excellent profits. Mr. Thompson did just fine, also. He and that company are but one of many, many entities that create, promote, and maintain the suffering of millions of people. Be that home insurance problems, investment specialists/ brokers, health, or auto insurance, etc., people are spit on, if not entirely ruined just because the few at the top cannot earn enough…it’s never enough for these value-less sharks.
@soniajones1519 the only way I would feel sympathy for the so called victims family would be if they gave all that Blood Money to charity and made a public apology that the CEO in their family ever existed in the first place. He was a mass murderer who lusted for the almighty dollar at the expense of the innocent , which was his GOD Satan !!
Lauren, I am a recovering newscast producer- i worked for NBCU for 20 years, I had to battle one of the biggest media companies in the world, and one of the biggest insurance companies in the world to get long-term disability. Good news is I won bad news - it was a full-time job trying to get the coverage I needed. It is ridiculous.
Same in Germany. Everybody pays monthly shares and you are never denied help. Some dental replacements and glasses are extra, but affordable. I will never understand, why the US sticks to this Healthcare system
I guess you are correct. When I hear people complaining about the German system, I almost can't believe it. Most of the people do not know, how lucky they are here.
I’m not one to recommend or promote violence, but his review of Kaczynski’s book makes valid points. Ppl are quick to call shooting violence (it IS), but have failed to call out healthcare denials for profit as equal violence. Violence takes many forms. Our country needs change for the people (not capitalists) 💔
That's the jist of my questions for Dr John above. We agree, as a society, that theft of property and violence against others are criminal acts. However, some people (maybe by hiding within organizations) are able to steal and hurt others without repercussions. Is it how we are able to convince of theft and violence? Like, it's easier to wrap your brain around someone getting stabbed in a bar fight than a wealthy psychopath who happily signs off on corporate policies that make thousands ill.
@ you worded that so well!! It’s disturbing because it feels like we (the working class) are so often gaslit into not calling corporate violence out for what it is. Then, when people snap and commit THIS type of violence it is chastised as “unacceptable.” Cognitive dissonance methinks
I can say from experience, my daughter, husband and 3 children had to move in with us because of her chronic illness and treatment and medications put them in financial ruin. They have " good insurance" yet it was a constant fight for coverage and out of pocket expenses. We are all one healthcare crisis away from financial ruin.
😢 yes, so sad i completely agree. yet there are some people already making tee shirts saying something like "we are ALL Luigi Mangione" hes starting a new revolution"
For those who have lots of money, I heard they should get catastrophic medical insurance. The monthly premiums are high, but it saves you from losing everything if you have to pay a lot for a surgery and treatments.
Or well insured. I had a serious medical problem requiring substantial hospitalization, treatment, and rehabilitation. Because I had good insurance, I was able to cover my share and avoid bankruptcy.
@ not everyone can afford to be well insured and not everyone is accepted by the insurance companies. I take it that you were one of the fortunate ones.
Same. There is something particularly offensive about growing obscenely wealthy with the blood money of denying coverage that people PAY FOR. It’s gross.
Anyone who has had chronic pain and had to battle for their own pain management knows the fury of anger that can happen when asking for assistance in this medical machine we call healthcare. I have paid monthly for decades as a freelancer and when I needed help I was given attitude, push back at every single turn and had mostly out of pocket expenses because the treatment I sought out wasn't covered. The insanity of it will make you go insane, my sciatica nerve issue that lasted for over 6 months was worse than child birth and kidney stones, it was beyond excruciating ,so I can easily see why this happened. People in pain want..need... deserve healthcare. Aren't we all tired of the billions made by corporations and the greed they continue with. It's time to stop paying them for nothing.
You need to look into the reasons why that is happening, and the reason is Obama's reforms which proved to be a populist move. Insurance for everybody means no proper insurance for anyone. Democrats significantly damaged the system which already was far from perfect. That's the reason it's not working good now. Not any one given person or company. You need to look into the root cause, not the consequences.
“Change from the inside” won’t happen as things stand now. You don’t get to be CEO/leadership etc by approving claims; you get to the top by making $$ for the shareholders. It’s a broken system.
Dr John May be surprised that he profiled this kid correctly, but I’m not. Dr John has a keen sense of people’s motivations and he’s a true polymath. His grasp of psychology, literature, philosophy and history give him the rare ability to understand human behavior at its most fundamental level.
I have an inherited cholesterol disorder that ended my uncle's life at 55 & his siblings have needed surgeries to survive into their 60s. I'm in my 40s & my cholesterol numbers are awful despite medication & diet/lifestyle changes but my insurance will not cover the minimally invasive CT scan that my cardiologist says I need in order to assess what kind of monitoring/treatment is appropriate at this point. This, despite the fact that I pay for the best health insurance the federal government can provide, with the lowest possible deductible (which is still a LOT of money) and I've already paid out my deductible and my co-insurance for the year. Now here we are in December & the insurance company gets to opt out of covering life-saving testing.... just because they feel like it. I could never pick up a weapon and unalive someone for any reason except to protect my kids lives but... I'm also not judging how other people react to not being able to get basic medical care in a country as wealthy & technologically advanced as ours.
Timothy McVeigh and Kaczinsky did loads of collateral damage, harming families of targets and targeting low level “cogs” in the systems they despised in their weird ideologies. Luigi was laser focused. It seems like would be hard to get a jury without some who are sympathetic on some level, unless it is all made up of active or retired corporate CEO’s.
I'm sorry but when my dad was in his last year of life he had congestive heart failure and they ordered a breathing treatment which really helped but, after the few samples he had he went to fill it and it was 660 dollars. He wouldn't pay it because he was worried about saving everything he could for her when he died because she was mid stage dementia. Sad thing is at the time I was working weekends at a nursing home as a RN and someone had been ordered the same thing and there was huge box of them. The patient had left and they were just sitting there. It's terrible.
@@Carrieseafree your poor blessed dad. I know how he feels. After a test the Doctor wanted me to have was 500 dollars I about had a stroke! I told my insurance agent I was going to just die instead of leaving my husband bankrupted when I die.
My ex husband had four back surgeries in two years and became addicted to opiates and also went crazy. He lost everything including his mind. I’m not shocked this man went crazy too. This is a tragic story
You two ROCK!!!! This was sooooo helpful to understand why a beautiful smart young man might do this. You've made some sense of the world. Your channel should have at least a million subs!!!
There is NO JUSTIFICATION FOR MURDER, but I was a billing specialist in a dental office and what he say is standard procedure for these insurance companies! It’s an absolute tragedy and it shouldn’t happen period.
I'm disturbed by my own feelings. How can one agree with this guy yet denounce murder under the same breath? Thank god, I don't have to be on the jury that will have to go by the law.
If I was a Hollywood studio producer I would be negotiating with his attorney, or soon to be attorney, for the exclusive rights to his story. It is riveting from a variety of perspectives.
I’m sorry but one more comment on how much I love you both. I wonder if being in pain and everyone at 26 gets kicked off of his parents insurance. Being a caregiver is tolling and I’m not making excuses but being that young, impulsive, in pain and watching his mother with no hope… your opinions are so important.
I’m so glad you are covering this case, it’s absolutely fascinating. The institutionalized violence against so many through legal, for profit healthcare is to blame. I hope this event can lead to something positive. ❤
i broke my ankle, had emergency surgery at a hospital called "southern hills" -- later nurses I knew would admit that they call it "suffering kills"...I got a severe bone infection from the surgery. I had to go to Vanderbilt University for 5 days just to get the infection under control, emergency surgery to clear out the infection, they sewed me back up to heal, then after about 4 months after i healed, i went back into surgery to get corrective metal wear from the botched surgery. i know pain. chronic pain. it WILL change your brain chemistry. i was worn down and nearly broken from this. i declared bankruptcy because "suffering kills" wanted me to pay for their botched surgery. I didn't pay. I declared bankruptcy and told them to *eff* themselves. That was 12 years ago. Vanderbilt University saved my quality of life. I'm employed by them now and work in the Biochemistry dept doing the research that i love! PAIN WILL ALTER YOUR BRAIN. it's science.
I feel for this young man and his family. I’m living with similar issues and circumstances. I understand his heartbreak and frustration. I find it interesting his mother describes being in a vice as I too on many occasions describe the same. This situation with his mother feels like it’s describing my life exactly. Until you have lived it, you do not understand it. I was just told by my insurance company that a neurologist employed by my insurance company denied my surgery all because I have fibromyalgia in addition to other orthopedic issues so what is the point of surgery since I have all over body pain, SURGERY DENIED! I feel no empathy for the CEO, only disgust towards him and those like him. I would not resort to violence because I’m not a violent person but I understand the reasoning behind those that do. ❤
It’s up to us. The jury of his peers to make sure that DOES NOT HAPPEN!!!! Probable cause can be ANY HINT OF DOUBT lol. No matter what, our answer is NOT GUILTY
Even if he goes to prison for life, his future can still be meaningful. As Dr. John say, he will probably still write and perhaps his legacy will ultimately be a change in our appalling medical system.
I am a nurse who reviews charts for a major a hospital and deal with the insurance companies myself. This is happening to so many people. It’s ridiculous. It is even happened to me. Something must be done about this. I don’t condone ending someone’s life. Something needs to be done. I can see being that frustrated and needing to make someone hear you and care about what you’re going through when you’re paying thousands of dollars a year in premiums plus co-pays etc. etc. etc
Love hearing Dr. John talk about literature and true crime combined! Fascinating insights. Thanks for hopping on so late to share your insights with us! 💕
This reminds me of a line in 'The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy' by Douglas Adams: "The marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetic Corporation [is] a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.” I'm finding it hard to think of anyone who would deserve to go ahead of Thompson in that line.
As the mother of a chronic illness patient whose life sustaining meds keep getting stuck in the UHC denial cycle, I can understand why he feels like he does. Doesn't justify what he did, but I understand.
I watched a live with Vinny P and most of the comments were right with Luigi saying I don't know him. Never saw him. Blocking the police. So he was martyred. People are furious about the health care dilemma. People are donating for his defense.
Lauren and John: I wanted to commend you on both your journalistic insights as well as the phycological breakdown of the shooter. Lauren, your journalistic approach to this case was spot on. You provided details that no other “Main stream media” provided until 2 days later. Bravo!!! And Dr. John, I appreciate your analysis of Luigi and now with more information coming through we’re seeing right before our eyes your opinion is spot on. You two are a dynamic duo.
It's so sad!And I lost my sister just 6 months ago because she was denied coverage till the very end and it was to late by the time she got coverage by united health care if one good thing can come from this please let it be better health care in America !
Immediately I think of three books: a tale of two cities, American pastoral, and crime & punishment. This is an incredible discussion of this. It’s complex, no winners. Historical.
i just saw an xray of a surgery the shooter endured. He is an athlete and w an injury like his, he’s done being an athlete. When young, this is too much to bear. He’s been fused in the low back and one bone slipped forward of another which is the most painful injury EVER!!!
He is a surprise to me. His background is very surprising; valedictorian of his high school, Master’s degree in Engineering in Computer Sciences, from an Ivy League college. We don’t know about his personal life yet but. He is not what I expected. He is very handsome, smart & well-travelled. Not what I expected. Too bad because his life is now over & his family will never recover from this. He elicits sympathy even though I don’t agree with violence $ especially killing. This seems like a trade guy for both sides.
'Give me liberty or give me death' a long tradition in US against injustices. Can someone explain what alternatives there are against corporate😮 injustices? No one condones murder, however, a bold move certainly brought attention to the issues. He's being charged with terrorism. Think about that for a minute. Its now terrorism to attack corporate injustices.Someone once said: one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
As I often do, I felt compassion as you two covered this. As always, so enlightening to listen and observe you both. I felt such compassion for this kid around the pain he witnessed with his mother and physically endured himself yet don’t support the taking of another life as a result. Still, I pray God have mercy on him as I believe he was mind possessed, identified with his thoughts and his true essence was obscured. The fact he was shaking speaks to humility at some level and awareness of what he did was present. The hard shell of ego perhaps cracking slightly and a hint of light being possible to shine thru. Loving these immediate videos arising as I revere you both 🙏🏻
I was rushed to an out of network hospital after suffering a dissected carotid artery and a stroke. United Healthcare denied the claim in its entirety. I’m most distraught by the idea that Luigi sacrificed his young life to bring about this reckoning. I know what he did was wrong, but I think that many more people are listening to the pain that these healthcare companies cause.
I have not been denied coverage -yet- by my UHC Medicare policy. But having gone through severe nerve pain for 5 months now due to a spinal compression fracture (due to both osteoporosis and trauma), I can testify that this sort of pain changes one’s way of life, and even those who work hard at optimism so they can to keep trying to find solutions can be sorely tried when solutions are partial and short-lived. In addition, he’s young, and the anger and pain have to feel insurmountable. Makes me wonder how he spent the 10 days before the murder. Was he going back and forth with regard to putting his plan into effect?
I think that you both missed the point of why the CEO of United Healthcare. Brian Thompson took over as CEO about 3 yrs ago. That's when claim denials began in earnest. Not only was he making $10M annually, but when he and other "bigwigs" got word that they were being investigated, they all immediately sold their shares for huge profits. Then, the meeting he was going to address was to tout the huge profit margins of the last year. If you or a loved one lived in constant debilitating pain and you could not get insurance, that you had paid premiums into for years, to pay for things that could provide relief, you would target the root cause of the problem.
I’m grateful he brought this TRUTH to Light! And incredibly SAD that for all Americans who are caught up in an unfair system. NO, violence isn’t the answer… but what Lauren read that he wrote has brought a HUGE problem for our discussion. Thank you HTC
I just want to second a comment here about dr john doing an analysis of the ceo. Part of the whole narrative here is that he was essentially a serial killer but in a way that was viewed as respectable.
As a person suffering severe health issues for over a decade with enormous pains in whole body.. allipathic medicine only gaslighted all this time.. I hear his pain and despair... It is sad that he took this approach to solve the problem, his mind would have been helpful in this sociaty so much more.
The medical gaslighting is astounding . It is harmful. So much so that combined with neglect of care it can break a person . Physically , mentally and spiritually .
The American Health system is in crisis. I think so many health systems deny at first to pay for things. I feel sad this man was in pain and so was his mother and it all pushed him over the edge. I don't agree with murdering, but at the same time people are not wrong when their claims are denied until people keep fighting for them to be accepted. We should not have to fight so hard to get our healthy claims accepted. To many people are dying due to healthy insurance to ok treatment. It's sad that is for sure. Sadly the man he allegedly killed was a crook in his own right due to his greed that he let get out of control That doesn't justify killing him, but clearly the health problems between his mother and him triggered him badly.
Though I do not agree with violence as a remedy whatsoever, I agree with the perpetrator that the healthcare system in the States is beyond disgusting. It's greed and it's spreading like a pandemic. I'm so sorry for this man's mother and what she's been through and, by proxy, what her loved ones have been forced to witness. We are much more fortunate in Australia, as you can still get good healthcare if not wealthy. I feel very lucky listening to his story. 😢🙏
The biggest tragedy is to see a promising young man, who is overall conventionally considered to belong to the group that is likely less affected/ stake holders of the insurance plague , forced to do sth about it. It just showed how the older generations in general failed the young (and likely failed themselves as well) that such a vibrant and bright person sees no other way out but vigilante as the only solution. And the authorities and media as a whole chose to ignore that and lumped him to ordinary criminals instead of a cry for help😢it’s either more ppl going to follow his footstep or more radical stuff coming out before ppl’s cry is not heard or respected
Thank you-this was so interesting. Such a tragic situation all around. He certainly has instigated significant conversation about the healthcare industry.
First, I love a Dr. John History and literature deep dive. This is why I became a subscriber! Second, I heard Dr. John state that the unibomber was this country's first ideological murderer. I wanted to ask why John Brown wasn't considered such? Do criminal psychologists not see him that way because of our contemporary understanding of the self evident moral evil of slavery? Third, I feel like I need to preface this. I think crime is bad and we shouldn't do violence, okay? I do have questions and this channel is called "hidden" true crime so these are curiosity and understanding questions: If it's legal and moral to shoot an intruder into my house who is robbing me, what makes this criminal's psychology different? If it's legal and moral to hurt someone in self defense if they are trying to hurt me or my daughters, how is this criminal's psychology different? Is it because he's targeting an individual for financial and physical harms done by an institution? Again, I don't think this is right, I'm just asking in the spirit of teasing out the various motivations and why and how the law sees them.
EXCLUSIVE ADDITIONAL ANALYSIS FROM DR JOHN: www.patreon.com/posts/dr-john-matthias-117794255?Link&
I have been ill since 2016. Had United Healthcare. Non of my claims were covered, I was too ill, just trying to survive and get better as a single mother to adequately fight United Healthcare. Subsequently I am in major debt due to all my rising health costs. I was forced to drain my retirement funds to pay my medical bills and so now owe federal taxes for this early withdrawal. This is inhumane and wrong! I do not condone murder but the systems in the USA need to be closely evaluated and new regulations implemented. Why does an insurance company have the power and right to pick and choose who gets coverage for tests and treatments? Basically they are deciding who gets to live or die. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!
I am so very sorry
I agree, same been there am there and was just denied.
I feel your pain and frustration as I too suffer 24 hrs a day and try to figure out how to live with pain. I’m truly sorry what you have gone through and are living with. Just wondering why you didn’t or haven’t changed insurance companies? Preexisting conditions cannot stop you from changing your health care .
I grieve with and for you. 😢
I worked in healthcare for 30+ years, dealing with insurance companies to help our patients. United healthcare had a bad reputation with providers… They were reluctant to accept it. When I retired, I went for regular Medicare and a supplement. I don’t want an HMO deciding what kind of treatment I can have.
Chronic pain and trauma can create insanity
And not being able to access treatment because healthcare is about money not care and to me that's disgusting. They're just letting poor people suffer and die.
@KatJ3st he played sports and suffered back injury, must've gone thru h*ll of fight to get the surgery approved and still in debt
Yep it can I know all too well, then your trapped with terrible pain management and pills that you don't even want to have to be taking and are not making the pain stop its a vicious cycle
Yup. Had a friend who was a nurse unalive herself as she couldn't take the pain anymore.
I had a C5-C6 injury at work and it took forever to get work comp to approve surgery. They had me see a quack of an orthopedic doc who wrote it up so it looked like I couldn’t have hurt it at work. I had already seen a neurosurgeon on my own and she and my main doc wrote letters for an appeal because they stopped my work comp pay too. I went through a lawyer to help.
Ended up using my insurance for surgery and was extremely grateful as the pain really affected my mental health to the point I needed inpatient MH care for more than a week
This was 9 years ago and I’m pain free since
We have paid health insurance 34 years. My husband got sick 5 days in ER and we owe 1000s and 1000s !! Maybe this guy stood up for all of us in a world that allows us to get rolled !!!!
Violence is not the answer! He didn’t stand up for you or anyone else. He murdered someone!
That is exactly how he saw himself.
@@ChaChaRahthese health care companies are killing millions!
The uk, will go like your system eventually.
'Violence never solved anything' is a statement uttered by cowards and predators." --Luigi Mangione
Years ago, my husband was working for a company that had a good insurance plan. One evening he got into an accident where he broke a few ribs and his ankle. This was before we met and he didn’t have family nearby for support. He didn’t make enough to afford the hospital bills even with the insurance. When he told the company what happened and that he needed time off to recover, they let him go and he ended up living at a YMCA until he healed and could get work again. Thinking it about it just makes me sad and angry. So many of us Americans have similar stories.
I'm sorry about him having experienced this. Biggest problem is that the same people feeling sympathy for the killer are the same ones who refuse to vote for those who want to make the healthcare system more just. Two of my close friends care about a more just system, but they refuse to vote no matter my encouraging them. Same with a gob of my neighbors who refused to vote.
@ Thank you so much. Yes, exactly and it doesn’t make any sense to me. It’s layered but my gut says it’s prejudice, resistance to change, and putting politics before what’s best for them, the everyday person.
@@Delphine-bk24 Some folks just hate politics. Who knows, maybe they've never voted before or don't think that their votes matter. Bummed me out as they don't think of how their lack of participation harms those who are vulnerable, like me and so many others in America. Off topic, I met a really cool Columbian the other day and it was hard to smile much, knowing that people didn't care enough to vote to protect his rights, or rights for people on Medicaid like me. Frightens me so much to possibly lose health care. I remember the days that doctors told me that I should get counseling since my physical illnesses and injuries bring on depression and anxiety, because who can sleep well in so much pain? I kept telling them that insurance didn't cover it, plus when I did at times it was with a few of the worst counselors I've ever had, because I paid out of pocket, but was given a sliding fee due to his poor I was. I don't want to lose my counseling with the current one all because my insurance refuses to pay for it. The rich are evil. So I know that others are dealing with the same fear or worse and I pray that nobody else gets killed.
As an Australian , who has always received free healthcare for even the most complicated conditions, I can’t understand how Americans can tolerate the conditions this young man describes.
Same here in the UK we have the NHS... It's mind-blowing how it is in America... He was pushed for years and years of watching his mother suffer then himself.....he was pushed to this... I don't feel like he's a cold blooded killer that manifesto shows genuine empathy.... For what Americans are going through...he even apologies for the trauma he's causing(to CEOS family I'm guessing)... That is not a cold blooded killer. My heart breaks for him and his mother also....😢😢😢
Same here in Holland 🇳🇱
Same! As a Canadian, living in Ontario I have never been denied help. America is NOT as great as many have you believe!
It isn’t free healthcare. You pay a lot of taxes for these social nets. The US believes that each is responsible for their own well being or circumstance. Most do not want to pay higher taxes to support others social nets.
Most Americans don’t know any better. There is a false pride in taking care of yourself.
John and Lauren I think it might be really interesting for you guys to examine a man like Brian Thompson, who definitely has a higher body count than this Luigi. Maybe explain the detachment that Brian Thompson had with all the death and harm he was causing from a psychological standpoint.
YES
I was going to say this! Anyone with no conscience for how he gets his money at the demise of countless suffering people probably isn't the best dad or romantic partner either as I don't think those traits turn off once crossing the threshold at home.
What a counter-current and brilliant idea!
I'm afraid that most people at the top have the profile of sociopaths and psychopaths.
I think the statistics are that psychopaths make for about 1% of the population (or is it 5?)
You can't help but Venn diagram that with the 1% that rules the world...
The reason Luigi is punished is due to the societal taboo of his act. But this wasn't murder per se. There may be an element of revenge related to his mother, but due to the level of "acceptable" murder by this CEO, I believe this act can also be classified as an act of class war.
@tinazaccagna1459 And the physical deaths caused by denying claims and care. A doctor friend of mine once said: "To be a hospital administrator, you have to be a sociopath. You can't have empathy for the people you kill."
I don’t condone murder but our heath care system makes people angry and feel totally helpless in changing anything. We are going to see this occur again.
Absolutely. I feel like he just snapped after years and years of watching his mother suffer endlessly and just getting fobbed off time and time again....then his own pain on top.... Helplessness to the max. It's so bloody sad. 😢
Sadly, people have little understanding about how private healthcare insurance works. Not that i am defending it, but that does need to be factored in. Obviously violence is never the answer, but if this info about him is real, i can understand it.
@@theShamrockShepherdWagonagree completely!
Gotta blame the corrupt politicians. Illegal aliens get free healthcare, meanwhile Americans are struggling.
100
If you have never seen suffering real suffering you have no idea .
@@jamielunes1841 Truth. Been a nurse for 20+ years WITH my OWN health and pain issues. Healthcare is not what it used to be. It SUCKS!!!!!
@@Plant12day But palliative care is very good today.
Yeah, you can tell that to United Healthcare
@@jamielunes1841 🙌🙌 So true ☝️
Exactly! 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
I really pray this whole incident wakes everyone up to what is going on in the American health care system. Sad that it may take something like this.🙏🏼 Thank you both for your thoughtful and insightful coverage
I LOVE when you talk about Dostoevsky. I’m having a really hard time not feeling bad for this young man, and angry at a corrupt healthcare system that did this to him.
@@eflyz4880 I agree. I cannot defend murder, but this is heartbreaking. I also love Dostoevsky. It is very dangerous to cheer for someone shooting people.
How can we judge him if the system unnecessarily harmed his mother in a big way it sounds like. Did they screw him as well in paying on his back surgery health coverage? Justice would be hearing his story from him or close family to be able to decipher the truth in information coming out. The MSM lies and will do the bidding of their corporate overlords.
Two wrongs don't make it right BUT...
this kid had a severe injury that put him on another level mentally. PERHAPS he didn’t need such a surgery? I have seen this in my medical practice over and over.
Me too! The visceral feelings are pre-levant
As a social worker for over 20 years including in healthcare and hospice and now a individual therapist I am saddened by our system and feel bad for this young man we are broken in America I’ve worked in it!
Thank you for your service.
@ thank you! I’m burned out from trying to help people over the years and no resources!
@@Therapistmind I hear you! In social services for over 10 years. We struggle because of the lack of resources. Finding a mental health provider is pretty much impossible. Finding housing resources is extremely difficult. Running in circles.
AS A HOSPICE RN AND NURSE FOR ALMOST 40 YRS. AMERICA HAS MANY BENIFITS FOR FOLKS AS COMPARED TO MANY MANY OTHER COUNTRIES. THATS WHY SO MANY FOLKS COME TO AMERICA. KILLING IS NEVER AN ANSWER....HE WAS INDOCTRINATED. VERY SAD INDEED
@@americafirst6628indoctrinated? By who?
I would NEVER condone an act of violence to solve a nationwide healthcare crisis, BUT...I'm certain a LOT of CEOs & COOs are hunkering down and looking over their shoulders for the last few days.
If ANYONE can tell me exactly what a CEO does in a workweek that affords the salary of 10 Million dollars, please kindly respond below.
Not to mention their 5+ million in bonus checks every year
If these companies paid the executives less than they would be able to better serve their customers.
@@truffles2721
And their frontline employees.
But, we just turn out heads, feom these psychopathic corporations and their human monsters who carry out the dirty deeds?
It's not what he does that gets him the money. It's what he prevents paying. Because the big pharma and wall street make the money. That's how the game works. I've sat in those board meetings being an auditor at an insurance company.
Medical PTSD is real!! The pain of seeing a loved one suffer! The powerlessness! Looking back on it and wishing you had tried another option instead of trusting the medical providers. It’s awful.
@battina868 It is a real thing 💯 I agree that if there is not a variant of PTSD under that umbrella, they ought to add Medical PTSD to the DSM. I had to watch as a man I cared deeply about being brutally beat up in a hospital at night by a group of men who terrorized & targeted people on the night shift. They kicked him into the ground & kicked his ribs & face. I still break down sobbing 36 years later, because I could not intervene against 3 thugs,..one was a karate expert & one was a 6' 7" man & the other man was also a total psycho. There are also horror stories of people who do "get help" in hospitals as well as people who are left to suffer everyday of their lives by being denied necessary medical intervention. Your comment made that memory come right back to me. It never gets better. It really shattered my heart 💔 The state of affairs in America is so far gone regarding Healthcare. Some people have great experiences while others experiences are truly nightmarish 😢😡
@@bettina868 unnecessarily 😢
I agree. Been living this for 5 years after losing my daughter at 29 years old. It was definitely health coverage related.
They don't give a shit!
He definitely comes across as a revolutionary, rather than a regular murderer...This is his message "Enough is enough".
On the day of the shooting, the medical community that is mostly doctors and nurses, were sounding off on Reddit about the same issues with UHC that the gunman outlined in his letter.
One post alleged that this CEO implemented an AI system that would auto deny claims of ppl who were in an older age group despite the fact that 90% of the claims were valid.
The patient would go through the same ridiculous things in this letter as UHC kept denying benefits that patients paid for, in an attempt to delay or avoid paying patient benefits.
Doctors spent countless hours each week, talking to UHC, sending notes, faxes, letters, peer-to-peer meetings etc.. to get their patient approved while UHC kept stalling.
For cancer patients, this would be lethal and if the allegations are true, there needs to be a full investigation because this looks like fraud and murder in my opinion!
My pet insurance is better than what is being said about UHC.
After reading all of these grievances from members of the medical community, I felt angry too!
Now I hope someone files a class action lawsuit , and criminal charges to follow if anyone died while waiting for their surgery, procedures or treatment to be approved, from what I read it sounded like the alleged death toll was very high.
I’ll never understand how anyone could value money over human lives.
It's on BOTH sides of the equation. Google provider "Steward Health Care".
I work on the coding/billing side for a healthcare provider and I’ve been complaining for years about how awful UHC is. They request documentation for prepayment review then deny the claims alleging the documentation doesn’t support the service billed. Then we have to go through this whole appeals process within 30 days of receiving the denial proving to them that the documentation does in fact support the service. 🙄. It’s unnecessarily bureaucratic and clearly a delay tactic. Their hope is the provider won’t appeal in time, so they’re off the hook for payment.
The hospitals and clinics are corrupt in their own right. It's profits before people and they're always covering for each other. I call it 'the thin white line'
In 2018 the 3rd leading cause of demise was med mistakes (according to John Hopkins) - yet how many are actually compensated for their loss? And JH listed the numbers of those they knew had passed from mistakes. What of those they didn't know about?
@@daysofapril2667thank you for that insight. No one becomes a doctor because they dream of fighting for their patients health all day long.
So in other words the corporate media is pearl clutching about how this "event" was so wrong.... while they're covering up for the same- wilful behavior of these companies while claiming this "event" was imoral. Hmm
It is absolutely a double standard, reminds me of when the French did something about their monarchy....
I don't know why, but the thing that pissed me off the most is the doctor going on vacation allowing the deductible to expire
@@darlingdear2687 We don’t know if that’s true.
If we lived in a government where we punished CEOs for their crimes at the same level that we targeted and penalized the poor for their poverty, maybe people wouldn't be driven by hopelessness to desperate acts. I don't condone violence, but there are no checks on the people in power. Some people are above the law, and it's only going to get worse. Our rights as a country and our rights as workers, came at the price of violent uprisings. You have visionaries like MLK, but you also have wild revolutionies like John Brown. I admire them both, despite my belief in nonviolence.
If you skip to 31:00 and listen to Lauren read Luigi's letter, it explains why he did what he did. It was exactly what millions of others have experienced, just as was speculated by many.
That was actually gut-wrenching to hear.
It explains his motive clearly.
I can't imagine how many Americans go through this nightmare. It's unbelievable.
There's no words...💔
It's heartbreaking.... I'm actually in tears...... He just snapped after years and years of watching his mother suffer endlessly and getting fobbed off by the health care system time and time again...then his own pain just pushed him over the edge and he just snapped... He shows so much empathy in that letter though.. that's no cold blooded killer this is a man pushed to the edge.... 😢
Thank you! So so sad😢
@@EmiFromMarswe all suffer from trauma, including me, but you can’t have sympathy for him killing someone. Saying that he just snapped and he’s not cold blooded is naive and a slippery slope for others to do the same to they perceive as their abuser.
I found myself grinding my teeth in frustration (and disappointment) hearing Dr. John referring to Luigi as “anti-capitalistic and radicalized” which leads me to believe that Lauren and he have not [yet] had extensive medical issues and/or have sufficient wealth to not be affected by the class warfare of economic inequality, power dynamics and conflict of interests of “health” insurance companies. I don’t condone violence. I feel sympathy for Luigi and zero sympathy for the UHC CEO.
My 19 died at an ER visit died. Our insurance denied it and said “the ER visit was denied” because the visit “was NOT an emergency!” We fought it. Twice! And finally after 8 months our insurance finally paid then we paid. So frustrating! I feel like so many claims are auto denied! I do not have United Healthcare. Just wanted you all to know. Love HTC Channel!
That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in a long time! I’m so sorry for your loss and the added stress the insurance company must have caused you.
I do not understand why the CEO has to make that much money.
@@lesleuthright!? 😮I can talk about it now but ten years ago when it happened I couldn’t. My husband had to deal with it. Thank God for my husband. Thank you
@@EVAVALENCIA-e3l since they do make that much money, I understand why we pay so much for insurance
@@EVAVALENCIA-e3l how much? I missed it.
As a person born and living in New Zealand with free healthcare I always felt for other countries like America where you need insurance and pay for healthcare. It must feel like a hopeless situation. Thanks Dr John and Lauren ❤
I agree with you, but when people tried to introduce universal healthcare in the US, people were in uproar saying: I won't pay for people who earn less then me. Everyone should pay for themselves.
It is hard to make it work if the society is not in support
Plus you can have insurance but it doesn't cover everything. You can still go bankrupt with insurance..
I'm from the UK and it makes me so thankful for the NHS. My father was sick with cancer for 7 years and all his treatments and hospice home care was provided by them and the care he received was amazing. When you make health about money and it directly affects the poor because they can't access care this is going to happen more and more.
@toma5153 that's insane and disgraceful in equal measure. I come from the UK where anyone can get care at anytime , they're not perfect but your not going to go bankrupt because you're sick, something you can't help.
@@toma5153 so fucking true
I completely understand Luigi’s anger. My granddaughter’s back tethering surgery was denied in March 2025. We paid $25K out of pocket to be able to tether instead of fuse. It breaks my heart for families who fuse scoliosis backs still. So wrong.
Luigi comes from an affluent family who invests in the stock market and expects the highest possible profits. CEOs are under pressure from the shareholders, so please do not blame them for everything that's going wrong.
THIS is the deeper problem with insurance. It’s not absolute lack of coverage or claims being denied outright- it’s insurance covering only 1 of 2 possible treatments, with the more expensive (and medically preferable) one being denied. It’s absolutely horrific to know that better care is available but you’ve been relegated to 2nd class and so it’s beyond your grasp. When it’s your granddaughter, young and with so many years left to live, it must be unbearable to see her suffer. I can only imagine. These companies did not realize the resentment they were fostering, brewing right beneath their feet. They see it now. What a shame it took yet more loss of life to do that.
It should not even be legal to offer a less expensive treatment that’s medically insufficient. This isn’t an airplane ticket we’re talking about, where you can fly economy and it gets you to the exact same destination as 1st class. These are human beings and permanent quality of life issues. Once a medical treatment is replaced with a newer more advanced technique (like tethering the vertebrae to help them slowly align properly, instead of fusing them together, when treating scoliosis), it should be illegal to sell the medically worse technique to people simply because they can’t afford the better treatment. The best treatment is the only one that it should be legal to perform (unless there’s some medical reason otherwise, obviously), and insurance ought to cover it so everyone gets access. End of story. Selling someone a second hand or “economy class” medical procedure because they can’t afford the real treatment is just crazy. Every other developed country on earth (and a fair number of less developed ones too) manages to do this except us.
MK ultra gone awry??
The day after this murder, I got a shock bill from UHC… $575 for an in-network allergy test. They previously made a mistake with my kids’ pediatrician… after taking two kids to a specific in-network doctor, was told they made a billing mistake and was not in-network… had to pay like $2,000. This was a decade ago. Paid it… about 4 years later, they sent me a check for that $2,000 after an audit. Healthcare as an industry is slimy. It’s been years since a regular check up has not ended with my family walking out with an Rx we end up throwing away.
Can you talk about how UHC had the highest denial rate of all insurance companies 😢
I read that under the leadership of CEO Brian Thompson, in a period of fewer than two years, claim denials *doubled.* He didn’t do poorly either…just like all.other.corporate.bigwigs. Filthy wealth, before a world, and currently, nation, that’s, in many ways, on its knees. I entertain no hope that we will see change any time soon. Wish I felt different, and hope I am incorrect.
How can that be legal? Don't we have regulations for insurance companies? I think i read it as at 32%. He'd only been hired in 2021 and took the denial rate from 10%to 32 in 3 year.
I need to check that number to make sure.... no matter what, he doubled what the other companies have.
The last days I watched many videos from doctors describing exactly what the alledged Manifest described, regarding sending notes multiple different ways and being told pay still denied... to the point where doctors refuse UHC as provider and tell patients they have to foot the bill and figure it out with UHC on their own only to learn the patients also get the same denial. It was a pattern with UHC and they intently delayed so long till the doc or patient gave up. Thats no flaw in the System thats profit at the expense of peoples suffering... and to me thats no different than a drug dealer or a gangmember. You reap what you sow... desperate people take desperate messaures. And although I feel for Brians family its about time a big discussion needs to be had. People, employers, companies should stop to sign with UHC and let them go broke
@@terminus_null the patients who are ill and need to fight the denial often don't have the means (lawyer money), time (due to work) and strength (already weakend due to illness)... doctors no big billing department or time away from the patients to sit and fill out form over form ... so UHC only needs the longer breath...they almost never get taken into court.
I read that under the leadership of Brian Thompson, United Healthcare’s denials more than *doubled* in under two years. Excellent profits.
Mr. Thompson did just fine, also. He and that company are but one of many, many entities that create, promote, and maintain the suffering of millions of people. Be that home insurance problems, investment specialists/ brokers, health, or auto insurance, etc., people are spit on, if not entirely ruined just because the few at the top cannot earn enough…it’s never enough for these value-less sharks.
How sad for victim and Luigi's family. It is horrific for these families. 😢
@soniajones1519 the only way I would feel sympathy for the so called victims family would be if they gave all that Blood Money to charity and made a public apology that the CEO in their family ever existed in the first place.
He was a mass murderer who lusted for the almighty dollar at the expense of the innocent , which was his GOD Satan !!
Lauren, I am a recovering newscast producer- i worked for NBCU for 20 years, I had to battle one of the biggest media companies in the world, and one of the biggest insurance companies in the world to get long-term disability. Good news is I won bad news - it was a full-time job trying to get the coverage I needed. It is ridiculous.
Same in Germany. Everybody pays monthly shares and you are never denied help. Some dental replacements and glasses are extra, but affordable. I will never understand, why the US sticks to this Healthcare system
money-hungry crooks 😞
Because we are powerless to change it. The ones with all the money are in charge.
It's called GREED
The American dream.....
I guess you are correct. When I hear people complaining about the German system, I almost can't believe it. Most of the people do not know, how lucky they are here.
We are so lucky to have Dr John. His knowledge and insight into the criminal profile is phenomenal
But not into this specific individual, so he can only speculate.
United Health care has the highest denial clams at 34%.
maybe they will wake up now and lower the denial claims
Billions in profit too, so they can't be stamping approved on too many.
I’m not one to recommend or promote violence, but his review of Kaczynski’s book makes valid points. Ppl are quick to call shooting violence (it IS), but have failed to call out healthcare denials for profit as equal violence. Violence takes many forms. Our country needs change for the people (not capitalists) 💔
That's the jist of my questions for Dr John above. We agree, as a society, that theft of property and violence against others are criminal acts. However, some people (maybe by hiding within organizations) are able to steal and hurt others without repercussions. Is it how we are able to convince of theft and violence? Like, it's easier to wrap your brain around someone getting stabbed in a bar fight than a wealthy psychopath who happily signs off on corporate policies that make thousands ill.
@ you worded that so well!! It’s disturbing because it feels like we (the working class) are so often gaslit into not calling corporate violence out for what it is. Then, when people snap and commit THIS type of violence it is chastised as “unacceptable.” Cognitive dissonance methinks
I can say from experience, my daughter, husband and 3 children had to move in with us because of her chronic illness and treatment and medications put them in financial ruin. They have " good insurance" yet it was a constant fight for coverage and out of pocket expenses. We are all one healthcare crisis away from financial ruin.
😢 yes, so sad i completely agree.
yet there are some people already making tee shirts saying something like "we are ALL Luigi Mangione" hes starting a new revolution"
This young man just told my personal story with Pain!!!!!
I’m so sad that it took murder to get his message out! 😢
Because politicians are NOT doing a damn thing to change it. We don't matter, profits matter to them.
We have to change our heath care system it’s not working for the most vulnerable people
That’s not going to be possible if people keep voting in MAGA.
100%. If America keeps voting this way we’re doomed.@@lucybarrington4634
It hasn’t been working for most of us.
Unless you are a millionaire, Americans are one medical emergency away from bankruptcy.
So true
For those who have lots of money, I heard they should get catastrophic medical insurance. The monthly premiums are high, but it saves you from losing everything if you have to pay a lot for a surgery and treatments.
Or well insured. I had a serious medical problem requiring substantial hospitalization, treatment, and rehabilitation. Because I had good insurance, I was able to cover my share and avoid bankruptcy.
@ not everyone can afford to be well insured and not everyone is accepted by the insurance companies. I take it that you were one of the fortunate ones.
I have no sympathy for CEO and their automated AI denying things humans need to live. Nope.
Same. There is something particularly offensive about growing obscenely wealthy with the blood money of denying coverage that people PAY FOR. It’s gross.
Anyone who has had chronic pain and had to battle for their own pain management knows the fury of anger that can happen when asking for assistance in this medical machine we call healthcare. I have paid monthly for decades as a freelancer and when I needed help I was given attitude, push back at every single turn and had mostly out of pocket expenses because the treatment I sought out wasn't covered. The insanity of it will make you go insane, my sciatica nerve issue that lasted for over 6 months was worse than child birth and kidney stones, it was beyond excruciating ,so I can easily see why this happened. People in pain want..need... deserve healthcare. Aren't we all tired of the billions made by corporations and the greed they continue with. It's time to stop paying them for nothing.
Insurance does make it difficult to get things covered. If the doctor thinks it is needed, that should be enough.
That's how it works in most other countries.
You need to look into the reasons why that is happening, and the reason is Obama's reforms which proved to be a populist move. Insurance for everybody means no proper insurance for anyone. Democrats significantly damaged the system which already was far from perfect. That's the reason it's not working good now. Not any one given person or company. You need to look into the root cause, not the consequences.
“Change from the inside” won’t happen as things stand now. You don’t get to be CEO/leadership etc by approving claims; you get to the top by making $$ for the shareholders. It’s a broken system.
Dr John May be surprised that he profiled this kid correctly, but I’m not. Dr John has a keen sense of people’s motivations and he’s a true polymath. His grasp of psychology, literature, philosophy and history give him the rare ability to understand human behavior at its most fundamental level.
I have an inherited cholesterol disorder that ended my uncle's life at 55 & his siblings have needed surgeries to survive into their 60s. I'm in my 40s & my cholesterol numbers are awful despite medication & diet/lifestyle changes but my insurance will not cover the minimally invasive CT scan that my cardiologist says I need in order to assess what kind of monitoring/treatment is appropriate at this point.
This, despite the fact that I pay for the best health insurance the federal government can provide, with the lowest possible deductible (which is still a LOT of money) and I've already paid out my deductible and my co-insurance for the year.
Now here we are in December & the insurance company gets to opt out of covering life-saving testing.... just because they feel like it.
I could never pick up a weapon and unalive someone for any reason except to protect my kids lives but... I'm also not judging how other people react to not being able to get basic medical care in a country as wealthy & technologically advanced as ours.
Timothy McVeigh and Kaczinsky did loads of collateral damage, harming families of targets and targeting low level “cogs” in the systems they despised in their weird ideologies. Luigi was laser focused. It seems like would be hard to get a jury without some who are sympathetic on some level, unless it is all made up of active or retired corporate CEO’s.
We need to make sure he has a jury trial
@@Valerie-n5zyes I would not convict
I'm sorry but when my dad was in his last year of life he had congestive heart failure and they ordered a breathing treatment which really helped but, after the few samples he had he went to fill it and it was 660 dollars. He wouldn't pay it because he was worried about saving everything he could for her when he died because she was mid stage dementia. Sad thing is at the time I was working weekends at a nursing home as a RN and someone had been ordered the same thing and there was huge box of them. The patient had left and they were just sitting there. It's terrible.
@@Carrieseafree I lost my sister with the same thing . Back in 2014. I know that struggle all to well .. sorry for ur loss
@@Carrieseafree your poor blessed dad. I know how he feels. After a test the Doctor wanted me to have was 500 dollars I about had a stroke! I told my insurance agent I was going to just die instead of leaving my husband bankrupted when I die.
My ex husband had four back surgeries in two years and became addicted to opiates and also went crazy. He lost everything including his mind. I’m not shocked this man went crazy too. This is a tragic story
Best coverage today on this tragedy. Good job reporting.
You two ROCK!!!! This was sooooo helpful to understand why a beautiful smart young man might do this. You've made some sense of the world. Your channel should have at least a million subs!!!
There is NO JUSTIFICATION FOR MURDER, but I was a billing specialist in a dental office and what he say is standard procedure for these insurance companies! It’s an absolute tragedy and it shouldn’t happen period.
I'm disturbed by my own feelings. How can one agree with this guy yet denounce murder under the same breath? Thank god, I don't have to be on the jury that will have to go by the law.
If I was a Hollywood studio producer I would be negotiating with his attorney, or soon to be attorney, for the exclusive rights to his story. It is riveting from a variety of perspectives.
I’m sorry but one more comment on how much I love you both. I wonder if being in pain and everyone at 26 gets kicked off of his parents insurance. Being a caregiver is tolling and I’m not making excuses but being that young, impulsive, in pain and watching his mother with no hope… your opinions are so important.
I’m so glad you are covering this case, it’s absolutely fascinating. The institutionalized violence against so many through legal, for profit healthcare is to blame. I hope this event can lead to something positive. ❤
It won’t, people will soon move on and forget when the next headline happens
i broke my ankle, had emergency surgery at a hospital called "southern hills" -- later nurses I knew would admit that they call it "suffering kills"...I got a severe bone infection from the surgery. I had to go to Vanderbilt University for 5 days just to get the infection under control, emergency surgery to clear out the infection, they sewed me back up to heal, then after about 4 months after i healed, i went back into surgery to get corrective metal wear from the botched surgery.
i know pain. chronic pain.
it WILL change your brain chemistry. i was worn down and nearly broken from this. i declared bankruptcy because "suffering kills" wanted me to pay for their botched surgery. I didn't pay. I declared bankruptcy and told them to *eff* themselves. That was 12 years ago. Vanderbilt University saved my quality of life. I'm employed by them now and work in the Biochemistry dept doing the research that i love!
PAIN WILL ALTER YOUR BRAIN. it's science.
I feel for this young man and his family. I’m living with similar issues and circumstances. I understand his heartbreak and frustration. I find it interesting his mother describes being in a vice as I too on many occasions describe the same. This situation with his mother feels like it’s describing my life exactly. Until you have lived it, you do not understand it. I was just told by my insurance company that a neurologist employed by my insurance company denied my surgery all because I have fibromyalgia in addition to other orthopedic issues so what is the point of surgery since I have all over body pain, SURGERY DENIED! I feel no empathy for the CEO, only disgust towards him and those like him. I would not resort to violence because I’m not a violent person but I understand the reasoning behind those that do. ❤
It’s really sad, because this shooter guy, threw his entire bright future away! 😢
He is not the only one like that it is all a bunch of organizations.
Ge looks affected. Nit fully mentally balanced.
It’s up to us. The jury of his peers to make sure that DOES NOT HAPPEN!!!! Probable cause can be ANY HINT OF DOUBT lol. No matter what, our answer is NOT GUILTY
It is very sad because in the end he let them win anyways because he became them in taking a life and also ended his future.
Even if he goes to prison for life, his future can still be meaningful. As Dr. John say, he will probably still write and perhaps his legacy will ultimately be a change in our appalling medical system.
I am a nurse who reviews charts for a major a hospital and deal with the insurance companies myself. This is happening to so many people. It’s ridiculous. It is even happened to me. Something must be done about this. I don’t condone ending someone’s life. Something needs to be done. I can see being that frustrated and needing to make someone hear you and care about what you’re going through when you’re paying thousands of dollars a year in premiums plus co-pays etc. etc. etc
Love hearing Dr. John talk about literature and true crime combined! Fascinating insights. Thanks for hopping on so late to share your insights with us! 💕
This reminds me of a line in 'The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy' by Douglas Adams:
"The marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetic Corporation [is] a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.”
I'm finding it hard to think of anyone who would deserve to go ahead of Thompson in that line.
As the mother of a chronic illness patient whose life sustaining meds keep getting stuck in the UHC denial cycle, I can understand why he feels like he does. Doesn't justify what he did, but I understand.
I watched a live with Vinny P and most of the comments were right with Luigi saying I don't know him. Never saw him. Blocking the police. So he was martyred. People are furious about the health care dilemma. People are donating for his defense.
He does not deserve any help.
Lauren and John: I wanted to commend you on both your journalistic insights as well as the phycological breakdown of the shooter. Lauren, your journalistic approach to this case was spot on. You provided details that no other “Main stream media” provided until 2 days later. Bravo!!! And Dr. John, I appreciate your analysis of Luigi and now with more information coming through we’re seeing right before our eyes your opinion is spot on. You two are a dynamic duo.
It's so sad!And I lost my sister just 6 months ago because she was denied coverage till the very end and it was to late by the time she got coverage by united health care if one good thing can come from this please let it be better health care in America !
I suffer from nerve pain,it is brutal, I cried and pray for the pain to go away,when I have it 😱😱
Thank you, John’s dad, for getting these two on the air.
Sorry I missed the live, but thrilled to be catching up this afternoon.
Thank you both, Lauren and Dr. John! I always appreciate your insight ❤️
Heartbreaking.
I love Dr John's interpretations, and how he makes the classics come through into what were experiencing today. Thank you
I was so pleasantly surprised at you both jumped on the story so quickly. Thank you.
Our pleasure!
This is a really good podcast. Thank you, Lauren and Dr. John.❤🌹
so grateful that I live in New Zealand
This is wonderful coverage on such a unique case. Thank you 🙏
Immediately I think of three books: a tale of two cities, American pastoral, and crime & punishment. This is an incredible discussion of this. It’s complex, no winners. Historical.
Hi Lauren and John! Always so good to hear from you. You guys are so good at what you do!
You are right on point with this analysis John. Also, you are the first to bring this info out. Great work!
Thanks for covering this!!
Thank you so much!
i just saw an xray of a surgery the shooter endured. He is an athlete and w an injury like his, he’s done being an athlete. When young, this is too much to bear. He’s been fused in the low back and one bone slipped forward of another which is the most painful injury EVER!!!
He is a surprise to me. His background is very surprising; valedictorian of his high school, Master’s degree in Engineering in Computer Sciences, from an Ivy League college.
We don’t know about his personal life yet but. He is not what I expected. He is very handsome, smart & well-travelled. Not what I expected. Too bad because his life is now over & his family will never recover from this. He elicits sympathy even though I don’t agree with violence $ especially killing. This seems like a trade guy for both sides.
Yes it's sad that he has blown up his own life here 😢
I believe he planned everything, including eventually being caught. I believe, having nothing left, he's sacrificing himself to start a movement.
Quite possibly
'Give me liberty or give me death' a long tradition in US against injustices. Can someone explain what alternatives there are against corporate😮 injustices? No one condones murder, however, a bold move certainly brought attention to the issues. He's being charged with terrorism. Think about that for a minute. Its now terrorism to attack corporate injustices.Someone once said: one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
Such an overall sad and tragic situation. 😢
As I often do, I felt compassion as you two covered this. As always, so enlightening to listen and observe you both. I felt such compassion for this kid around the pain he witnessed with his mother and physically endured himself yet don’t support the taking of another life as a result. Still, I pray God have mercy on him as I believe he was mind possessed, identified with his thoughts and his true essence was obscured. The fact he was shaking speaks to humility at some level and awareness of what he did was present. The hard shell of ego perhaps cracking slightly and a hint of light being possible to shine thru. Loving these immediate videos arising as I revere you both 🙏🏻
I was rushed to an out of network hospital after suffering a dissected carotid artery and a stroke. United Healthcare denied the claim in its entirety. I’m most distraught by the idea that Luigi sacrificed his young life to bring about this reckoning. I know what he did was wrong, but I think that many more people are listening to the pain that these healthcare companies cause.
I have not been denied coverage -yet- by my UHC Medicare policy. But having gone through severe nerve pain for 5 months now due to a spinal compression fracture (due to both osteoporosis and trauma), I can testify that this sort of pain changes one’s way of life, and even those who work hard at optimism so they can to keep trying to find solutions can be sorely tried when solutions are partial and short-lived.
In addition, he’s young, and the anger and pain have to feel insurmountable.
Makes me wonder how he spent the 10 days before the murder. Was he going back and forth with regard to putting his plan into effect?
I think that you both missed the point of why the CEO of United Healthcare. Brian Thompson took over as CEO about 3 yrs ago. That's when claim denials began in earnest. Not only was he making $10M annually, but when he and other "bigwigs" got word that they were being investigated, they all immediately sold their shares for huge profits. Then, the meeting he was going to address was to tout the huge profit margins of the last year.
If you or a loved one lived in constant debilitating pain and you could not get insurance, that you had paid premiums into for years, to pay for things that could provide relief, you would target the root cause of the problem.
I’m grateful he brought this TRUTH to Light! And incredibly SAD that for all Americans who are caught up in an unfair system.
NO, violence isn’t the answer… but what Lauren read that he wrote has brought a HUGE problem for our discussion. Thank you HTC
It's hard to judge a murderer when the Healthcare system has been responsible for countless deaths and pain.
Fantastic. Was waiting for Dr John to weigh in. Love you two.
I just want to second a comment here about dr john doing an analysis of the ceo. Part of the whole narrative here is that he was essentially a serial killer but in a way that was viewed as respectable.
As a person suffering severe health issues for over a decade with enormous pains in whole body.. allipathic medicine only gaslighted all this time.. I hear his pain and despair... It is sad that he took this approach to solve the problem, his mind would have been helpful in this sociaty so much more.
The medical gaslighting is astounding . It is harmful. So much so that combined with neglect of care it can break a person . Physically , mentally and spiritually .
Listed to this twice, though it's early days R John's first impressions are always on point!
Thanks for putting all the work in. Very insightful analysis
I’m literally in tears 😭
Enjoyed the Crime and Punishment discussion. That book had such a profound impact on me. I hope you cover this case in depth.
Love to hear Lauren and Dr. John covering this topic! I was waiting for it!😍😍😍
The American Health system is in crisis. I think so many health systems deny at first to pay for things. I feel sad this man was in pain and so was his mother and it all pushed him over the edge. I don't agree with murdering, but at the same time people are not wrong when their claims are denied until people keep fighting for them to be accepted. We should not have to fight so hard to get our healthy claims accepted. To many people are dying due to healthy insurance to ok treatment. It's sad that is for sure. Sadly the man he allegedly killed was a crook in his own right due to his greed that he let get out of control That doesn't justify killing him, but clearly the health problems between his mother and him triggered him badly.
Though I do not agree with violence as a remedy whatsoever, I agree with the perpetrator that the healthcare system in the States is beyond disgusting. It's greed and it's spreading like a pandemic.
I'm so sorry for this man's mother and what she's been through and, by proxy, what her loved ones have been forced to witness.
We are much more fortunate in Australia, as you can still get good healthcare if not wealthy. I feel very lucky listening to his story. 😢🙏
True, I'm in Perth.
Omg I was literally just thinking I can't WAIT to hear what Dr John has to say about this guy!! 🙏
You have provided more coverage on this story then United Health Care provides in benefits.
Good point
The biggest tragedy is to see a promising young man, who is overall conventionally considered to belong to the group that is likely less affected/ stake holders of the insurance plague , forced to do sth about it. It just showed how the older generations in general failed the young (and likely failed themselves as well) that such a vibrant and bright person sees no other way out but vigilante as the only solution. And the authorities and media as a whole chose to ignore that and lumped him to ordinary criminals instead of a cry for help😢it’s either more ppl going to follow his footstep or more radical stuff coming out before ppl’s cry is not heard or respected
The kid is right! How can a jury possibly find him guilty?
Thank you-this was so interesting. Such a tragic situation all around. He certainly has instigated significant conversation about the healthcare industry.
First, I love a Dr. John History and literature deep dive. This is why I became a subscriber!
Second, I heard Dr. John state that the unibomber was this country's first ideological murderer. I wanted to ask why John Brown wasn't considered such? Do criminal psychologists not see him that way because of our contemporary understanding of the self evident moral evil of slavery?
Third, I feel like I need to preface this. I think crime is bad and we shouldn't do violence, okay? I do have questions and this channel is called "hidden" true crime so these are curiosity and understanding questions:
If it's legal and moral to shoot an intruder into my house who is robbing me, what makes this criminal's psychology different?
If it's legal and moral to hurt someone in self defense if they are trying to hurt me or my daughters, how is this criminal's psychology different?
Is it because he's targeting an individual for financial and physical harms done by an institution?
Again, I don't think this is right, I'm just asking in the spirit of teasing out the various motivations and why and how the law sees them.
Yay!! I’m so excited you are covering this ❤❤
Yesss I was hoping you two would cover this! Thank you!! 🙏🏽 ❤