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16:10 As a matter of fact 60 FPS are not noticeable for about 95 % of the human population. Most people peak at about 50 FPS or below. What they will notice however is if the 60 FPS (or above) is not stable. Solution: DO NOT promote 60 FPS or higher if it isn't 100 % stable!
As an aging gamer, it's been years since i've put money down, game unseen, on any title. These companies refuse to put out feature complete titles in the initial release. I get nickeled and dimed constantly at the super market, Healthcare, vehicle maintenance, housing costs... ofc I'm going to play an old game! Genres benchmarks with high hour playtimes like Factorio, MC, MH:W that only ask me for time and aren't the latest AAA trainwreck are leagues ahead.
Yeah, Im much more comfortable waiting to play games now, even games I look forward to and want to play. I can just be busy or want to wait for a sale or whatever.
Same here ... I'm becoming much more "choosy" when I buy a game, I never buy any games before watching a Let's Play video on TH-cam. The funny thing is that my desire to play games is diminishing the more I get older even though as a retired person I have more time than ever.
Playing older titles effectively allows you to opt out of the hardware arms race too. All of the games I play at the moment are on a 8 year old i7 6700K CPU with a 2080 GFX card.
The problem with "Capture market, then work out how to monetize" is that the act of later monetizing often, especially if done poorly, drives people to the next market.
@@nSnowCrow Facebook advertising is extremely successful. & it wasn't why people stopped using it. Whatsapp is also incredibly successful still. You're just making shit up.
It's a monopolistic mentality. Its funny. Because these ceos don't understand gaming like they think they do. They think they can "capture" the market like Walmart for example. "Make ourselves the default, out spend competition. Gouge." The problem is technology advanced so fast. Unreal 5 gives indie devs the ability to punch above their weight, the execs thought they owned quality through acquisition. But indie devs have ZERO trouble pulling market share through passion and efficient tools. Thats what happens when you don't understand the industry or what gamers want. They understand market behavior in general and short term profit sheets.
@@YourBlackLocal If ad rates were anything to go by, possibly TH-cam. Although I feel like they are the exception. They keep cramming in more ads, knowing people don't like them, well their parent company knows at least. I remember Google coming out with a report more than a decade ago that basically said the worse the ads get, the more likely people will try to block them. I think TH-cam is running on inertia because their competition was driven out and mainly leaving them. It was largely thanks to all the investor money that probably enabled them to stay afloat. I remember TH-cam for the longest time running in the red. I only use this site now out of habit and there really is no competitors. In order to compete with TH-cam, you need several things going and I am probably going to miss a few: active creators, a library of content, and enough money. They all kind of feed into each other, if you don't have them all, it falls apart. I think Microsoft tried to get into streaming when they poached Ninja for a bit and even they failed. This is probably why Elon Musk bought Twitter, instead of making a competitor from scratch. If TH-cam did have a true competitor, I would probably switch over. I have been using this site since 1 or 2 years since it first started. The kind of content has generally gotten worse, used to find more interesting videos. In my view, TH-cam destroyed cable to essentially replace it and make it so cooperate safe. Can't even find some videos that went viral, probably because they changed the TOS and removed the content, like the animation for Me!Me!Me!. It's amazing how scrutinized animation gets, and the music industry largely gets ignored over the same type of content. It's also ironic that TH-cam wants to pivot to short video, when they killed it off their site long ago, which affected animation. Although streaming might be a better example. I think most streaming sites will go away and consolidate content because they realize that it isn't profitable. They were probably better off creating content to sell to things like Netflix instead of trying to cut their own slice of the pie. They largely failed due to oversaturation and hosting this stuff being expensive. Although they did definitely tried to capture their own market and work on monetizing later. I used to be of the opinion that I would gladly pay quite a bit for TH-cam, but not anymore because of how bad the site has gotten. I think TH-cam peaked 2012-2014 and plateau a bit and really started it's decline around 2018. It was around that time I noticed they started to actively push corporate channels more and making it harder for creators to compete. Probably happened because the legacy media started to heavily pivot online awhile back and were failing. So they probably gave TH-cam money to help promote them, because I think TH-cam had a report sawing they knew people were clicking their channels and therefore had to recommend them more. I still occasionally get recommendations for corporate channels, despite constantly telling TH-cam to never recommend them to me. It's insane how much you have to curate your feed now.
That right there is why everyone and every business fails for something else. They worry too much about FUTURE customers, rather than CURRENT customer satisfaction and eventually they have ZERO RETURNING customers. We watched it happen to cable in real time.
@@thepureheartofdark Pretty much. Money and people are not infinite, so logically speaking companies should grow to a specific size and try to maintain their customers, since the money invested in growing the customer base will eventually outstrip the return(law of diminishing returns). But for some reason all these so-called 'businessmen' don't have the braincells to come up with the this, frankly obvious, thought.
@@Pulstar232 Don't attribute to stupidity that which is perfectly explained by perverse incentives. Investors get their dividends and sell their stock to greater fools who buy at inflated prices because high dividends show "growth". Management enables this because that's what they're paid to do. The core of the issue is that in a publicly traded company the owners have both the most power and the least accountability; a succesful investor is the archetypical petty dictator who loots the country, pockets the profits, and flees just before it all collapses, leaving others to deal with the aftermath. Or in other words, the stock market is an ongoing economic disaster because the liquidity it offers makes destructive investment strategy the most profitable one - so profitable in fact that the whole boom-bust cycle is pretty much just a matter of people finding or buying loopholes, those causing a bubble followed by meltdown, and the regulators plugging them while the taxpayers foot the bill while desperately trying to survive a depression. Or to put it even blunter: businessmen aren't stupid, they're evil.
@@Pulstar232 It''s because said businessmen make their fortunes and golden parachutes promising investors that they're the ones who'll get the business growing again, even if it is bs.
I only got 2 real games with that amount of hours. Civ 4 and Cities Skylines. And Cookie Clicker to but Idle games don't count since it plays itself while I do other things. The game I put the most amount of hours in in 2023? Mass Effect Legendary.
more like Mass Effect 3 predicted that....ME3 MP had boxes that you could very much buy with real money and I was laughed out of the room for pointing out the very pay to win aspect who's laughing now people!? this is such a nonsense comment...
@@judgedrekk2981 lmao right? These kids thinking this is a new problem are telling on themselves when its obviously something that's been happening for decades
@@hundredhanded1205 we're sorry but you owe the coke company 10 points, we're now sending a team of ninjas to your location for collection purposes....
Videogames represents as much in US sales as film, TV, music, and professional sports, combined. I have to think that the biggest worry to the industry is inflation impacting the cost of the non-discretionary spending ( housing, transportation, insurance, etc ). If the core required expenses go up, there is less money left for entertainment.
If your new game can't compete with your old game, then don't bother. This is exactly the reason why every company wants a live service though, you don't have to compete with your old work when you can just make it obsolete or even remove it from the game entirely and just have this forever game where content is disposable and people have NO CHOICE but to consume the latest content. It's arguably a good thing that they are failing hard at landing these forever games.
Venn diagram of executives bemoaning falling player counts and executives bitching about people needing to get back to work in the office despite ongoing virus risks is a circle.
I don't think the reduction in playtime is all that crazy. From just my own perspective as a student at the time I had way more time to game during the pandemic. Not only did I save 2-3 hours per day on travel, during breaks I was already sitting near my pc so I could also sneak in a quick session here and there. So 20 % for me definitely tracks, if not more.
When you learn how to see the difference between 30 and 60 FPS you can't really unsee it. It can actually be the difference between winning and losing duels in Overwatch.
Video games in the US almost died overnight because Atari posted that their profits had increased by a slightly smaller margin compared to the previous year. It took Nintendo coming in years later with the NES for the industry to come back. It's not enough to make money. They need to make all of the money and make it faster than the year before. Chasing infinite growth at any cost is all that companies care about.
@@Khotetsu Back then was a wholde differnet situation then now. Gameing is way to big to dissolve now. Alone for the fact that it has become a entertainment stable, like books and music. Let alone the amount of "running itself" via the Internet. I not sure, but i have the feeling a crash would bring more good then bad right now.
@@MeowMeowMeowMeowMeowMeowMeowww I was referring to it in reference to the nonsense of these companies seeking infinite growth and infinite profits. Profits rolling in at a slightly slower breakneck pace? Okay boys, the fad's over, let's pull out before the market collapses! We're already seeing a crash of sorts, with the worst layoffs in the industry since the 2008 recession. I agree that it feels like a crash is needed to get rid of the stupid greed of the AAA industry, but I hope the workers don't get hurt along the way. Because they'll be the ones to suffer long before these greedy corporations and the CEOs who run them.
There's a story about the late, great baseball player Tony Gwynn. His son, who was a college player at the time, asked for advice on hitting a curveball. Tony Gwynn explained how you can look at the spin of the ball as it left the pitcher's hand and predict how it would break... to which his son replied, "Dad, nobody can see that except for you.".
roblox hasnt been a standalone game in a long time, its been a platform as long as i can remember. having it on the list of games is like having steam on there, or listing every unreal game as the engine itself.
I'm on Chrono Trigger right now. I very rarely play anything released within the last year, except Nintendo and FromSoft stuff, which is generally in a finished state when released. But I know i'm one of the very few not sick with FOMO. But sometimes I feel very lonely, seeing my friends angrily crash out of games, wasting their lifes in waiting queues, and getting scammed by every single early access or eating Marvel BS all day long...
That's why I keep reminding my friends to NEVER get a bethesda game until it is on sale because by the time it is on sale, the community would have finished the final 40% of the game with a mod by then.
That FOMO shit and chasing the popularity trend through society in any medium is so tiresome and the thing is rarely good. I have so many damn PC games on steam I could probably play new to me games forever at this point. But I do still jump on indie stuff which is where all the fun and art is these days. Like that game Dredge was so good. Oh and ive been playing DEEP ROCK GALATIC: SURVIVOR. Which is basically vampire survivors in the deep rock galactic universe and I really enjoy this and deep rock galactic. Theres still good stuff out there by good devs. Theyre usually not the type of thing millions of spergs play like COD or CS and just sit on it doing the same shit over and over again, so doesnt get reported much. Oh and im still playing Last Epoch. Games great. Way better than D4
I’m with you guys. Bought so many games on sale for proverbial pennies on the dollar, that I’ve got “new” (i.e. I’ve never played) games for probably a couple decades at this point. As far as I can remember, the only full AAA price/release day purchases I’ve made in the last decade are RDR2, both new Zelda’s, both FFVII *RE*leases, and Ghost of Tsushima. All of those were more than worth the money to me. Everything else, on sale or second hand, baby. FOMO can kiss my arse. 😎 I’ll buy some indies at full price sometimes, but I can easily get 3-7 of those for what a major release costs in my region.
LOL. Never watch the video? Sadly these games played by many casuals are live service game and they blindly feed money into it. A sad state of gaming truly.
The human eye starts detecting animation as “smooth” at 24 frames per second, many people being comfortable with 30fps if the animation is clean with no tearing or other problems isn’t surprising.
That sounds right to me. I legit have no idea what people are talking about above 25. Under 25 ya I notice something but after that? I keep the steam FPS counter up on my computer and I straight up dont notice any differences after 25.
@@richardgaldos6901 before I got old and my normal nearsighted glasses turned into bifocals I could see the difference, but only on higher resolution monitors and for shows or games with fast moving objects, hockey where you have a black puck on white ice is one of the best tests for if the refresh rate and resolution are really making a difference in what you are seeing. On a lower hertz the puck just teleports around, but if you have good eyes and good refresh rate on a sharp monitor you can actually follow the motion. Other than that I really find that things like true black and good edge definition matter to me more these days, so I tend to optimize my games to take out all the blur effects and frame cap at 60fps to save power.
60 is nice and I can tell the difference. Though when it's not something you need fast reactions for though, like a third person rpg 30 is fine. @D fast reaction stuff, racing, fps 60 is preferable. 120 is for try-hard fps players. the difference can also be easier to spot depending on the monitor, if you watch 60fps on an entry level lcd monitor it will probably be blurring a bit through the frames at 60 so you don't notice the difference, but on a CRT where the pictures are actually flashing up at 60fps it's more noticeable.
YES blah blah eyes shmyes, 144hz + is just smoother than 60hz at 60fps, I grew up getting migraines on xbox but low and behold I switch to pc and a 144hz monitor a while back and dont get headcahes anymore. 60fps on like a 144-240hz monitor id say is more inportant than pure fps on a 60hz monitor, so maybe the eye cant tell a difference but we arent watching a movie you are controling somthing and the smoothness helps.
@@Straymonsta exactly. if they really wanted to do a comprehensive study they'd have also tested whether those same subjects were able to tell if turning a light on is snappier with equivalently less input latency between 30 and 60 fps. not surprising to see researchers from biological sciences make mistakes like this though, reminds me of that one that thought they'd invented calculus in 1994 (and even then it wasn't proper calculus, just a worse version of the trapezium rule).
The study isn't about computer fps though, it's purely a study about eyes and temporal sensitivity outside the context of gaming. It APPLIES to gaming, but it isn't ABOUT gaming.
@@Straymonsta more important TO YOU, you mean. Honestly, the amount of ego in you 'hurr durr 60hz+ is automatically better because of muh personal anecdote' people! Completely failing to recognize that you aren't actually the protagonist of the world, and people can have experiences different to you.
Yeah I dont see anything because I dont really seek out social media or news and its blissful. Just YT videos, and games. No twitter, no facebook, no insta or fraggin tiktok. ew. I usually see if it YT'ers cover it, and they cover most big things allowing me to never stop foot in those cesspools again. Its not worth it if all you'd be doing is trolling which would be me.
As one of the people that can't tell the difference consistently between 30/60, it has saved me a fortune in PC parts over the years cause I'm fine being more than a few generations behind (and the games I like tend to be heavy on the CPU/Easy on the GPU. I've played at high framerates, and i'm back here running on budget graphics because it just doesn't look that different to me.
One of the best examples might be playing Rocket League on a decent PC with 240hz then trying to play again on a console. Never realized it felt like such jello in comparison before that haha.
For me its motion sickness, lol. 30fps I'm okay but 60fps if its got head bob I can't be even slightly tired because it gives me motion sickness. I Love FO4 but it wasn't until a little over a year ago that I found a mod that helped reduce head bob... something that until Fo4 never really occurred to me. I mean I remember when Ark first came out in Early Access and my first suggestion was give an option to remove head bob and camera shake because of motion sickness. They thankfully patched it in quickly but for me 60 fps in that game was unplayable until they did. I hate over the shoulder camera view so FO4 has to be first person... thank you again modders because you let me continue playing my fave game, lol!
I dont see much difference either, and i end up using my 60hz monitor over the 165hz a lot. I have however noticed i move windows and react to enemies quicker on the faster one, Whether this is up to framerate or pixel response times i dont really know. At this time there seems to be consensus that over 120hz better motion clarity with an oled is best, and i do believe that.
My parents, who wre born in the 1930s, always swore they couldn't tell the difference between 480i and 720p, and 1080p. I never got a chance to ask them about 4K.
When dealing with properly anti-aliased content I tend to only be able to differentiate between 720p and 1080p in static images with lots of small details, like text with a small font. Otherwise I can't usually tell them apart. When it comes to differentiating between 1080p and anything above it (4K, 8K, and whatever comes next) I frankly can't tell unless I almost glue my nose to the screen. When looking at the whole screen at a time, no way I could differentiate it. 480i to 720p, though, is like night and day for me. Heck, 480p to 720p is still very noticeable for me.
the editor is a real comedian and very good at his job. well done, good sir. you've managed to get a chuckle from me more than once. well done, indeed.
I now feel like a color-blind person at the paint store watching a couple argue over whether eggshell or ecru is the better color choice for their bathroom.
slow news day, and I just got out of work. The eclipse is/was making people nuts even though I assume its over by now. it started like 2 hours or so ago.
the 60hz+ fanatics needed something to glom onto, so literally any tiny shred of evidence that validates their ego will be propped up front and center lmao
@renmcmanus This isn't really a first of its kind study. When I was in college we did the exact same experiment with an LED being driven by a Signal Generator on a class of about 40 students, and it was done for every cohort of students that went to that college. It's kind of like making a scientific report about the fact that a pendulum will never reach a higher point in its arc in free motion. Is it scientific? Yes. Does there really need to be an article written about it for tennis? No.
@thenobin This isn't a case study in either meaning of the term. They didn't follow-up with this group of 80 people after a significant period of time to see if the act of aging had an effect on their response. And it's not a case study in its other meaning in that the sample size is not large enough to be indicative of a whole. If they had done the test on 800 people a trend might eek out, but 80 is just too small of a sample size to determine anything related to a trait that is known to vary significantly. This is literally a PhD student doing a one-off study that didn't pull enough participants to be statistically indicative of the claims they make.
Why people even arguing with other people's subjective experiences? If somebody says "This framerate is fine" or "This framerate is better", you don't... really have the authority to tell them they're wrong. "I don't like these chips, they're are too spicy" "No they're not" They're chips. Eat the chips you want. Don't pay for chips you hate. It's annoying if they're not making the flavour you want as much, but you can't tell people they're wrong that they enjoy the taste of salt and vinegar just fine.
The blame is entirely on the gaming industry's business practices and on the bottomless greed inherent to capitalism. Before, I looked forward to new releases, today, I am thinking about how they will try to pull money out of my pockets. I stopped buying Paradox games, because they are never complete, and you will pay literally hundreds of dollars in DLC. My perception of game companies changed from "wow, a circus came to town, there will be shows and cotton candy and fireworks" to "Look out, the thieves are back, close the doors and windows, and keep eye on everything!".
As a PC gamer I can’t remember the last time I spent more than $40 for a game. There’s too many sales and they happen too often for me to change my spending habits. I don’t play competitive games so being a part of the new hotness isn’t important. Good things truly come to those who wait and at half the price.
Hmm, I can def tell the diff between 30/60/120. I remember when I was a console peasant, playing H3 (30fps), then playing MW(somthing)(60fps), when I went back to H3, I felt like I was playing in slow motion.
When I was a poor kid with a shitty computer which purpose was to read email strenuously, 30 fps was amazing when I played diablo 2 for the first time. Later in my teens I got a new computer and played counter-strike 1.5 with amazing 60fps, and later 1.6 also in 60 fps. Was like eye candy. Then as I went to high school and got my first 120hz monitor and the mind blowing GTX 580 to play games... Everything else looked laggy. I've gotten so sensitive to FPS that I can tell when a shitty computer drops from 30fps to 24fps (a common thing) which is also why I simply refuse to play on console.
Anecdote about the fps stuff and it being directly tied to brain function: Autism means a person's brain has a harder time prioritizing which data to process. For me, if I sit down and can focus on a screen without much else to mind, movement on screen seems more smooth than what I can perceive normally, which makes some videos and games seem 'more lifelike than life' for me. I'm also completely unbothered by framerate in games unless it drops way too low. To contrast, a friend with autism has to purposely limit frames to 30 if it's for games she plays for longer stretches of time, because being focused on a screen at 60 will give her a headache. Could be there's too much to process at any given time at higher framerates. No hard evidence either of these things are directly related, of course, but seems like it 'would' make sense. I'd be interested in that research being taken further.
Last time I've heard, Discord still wasn't profitable. So it is actually a matter of perspective. Whether you're looking at revenue or profit. It might be argued that if you are at a loss, you aren't earning money, you are losing money instead.
The way these companies work is that they run at a loss for years, paying off old debt with new loans and investor money, until they hit a tipping point where they have enough of a market to start squeezing for money to make a profit. It's the basic MO for venture capitalism. It's what Uber and Lyft did, as well as DoorDash and the like, and Facebook and Twitter before them. Twitch is in the same boat right now, trying to make a profit now that they have a big audience. It's how Tumblr died, too. Tumblr ran at a loss for years, until it was big enough that they sold it to Verizon for the revenue potential of the userbase. Verizon then tried to sanitize it so that advertisers would pay them to run ads, and killed off the userbase in the process, selling Tumblr off a few years later for like 5% of what they bought it for.
they're all massive crowdpleasers or children's games. Nobody you'll talk to outside minecraft youtube comments touches Fortnite, Roblox, etc. Nobody who actually is enthusiastic about videogames plays sports games because they're casual, poorly made cashgrabs that come out every year. It's for the actual jocks and sports nerds who just don't have a pickup game every night. What Bellular is saying makes sense- they're a silent majority who will never talk about it on reddit but are a huge portion of AAA revenue.
I have over 2500 games just from my Steam and GOG accounts and the only game from those lists I have is Minecraft (though BG3 and Elden Ring are on my wishlist, so I'm bound to get them sooner or later).
I don't think enough attention os given the importance of frame-timing. Frame-timing is the differencd between 30fps being almost unnoticeable vs. feeling like a gif.
Exactly. If the frame pacing is consistent, then any framerate will Look smooth (if it's above a certain value). But due to the way games drop fps they don't drop them with consisten frame Timing but inkonsistent causing the FPS being noticable
RE: 30v60 topic: For those unaware; the conceit of converting our eye-to-brain interpretation of the constant sensory input into a distinct "images per second" is a gross misnomer and very much clickbait BS. No, this should be in terms of milliseconds of residual retinal image, or sometimes referred to as image retention (but also a misnomer as that can apply to cameras as well). No matter how good or bad this is for you; higher framerate is always better for reasons beyond just your own personal RRI. (Extended post for those curious) Testing, if done as suggested in the video overview of the article, should have instead been a variable strobe rate starting at the highest possible strobe rate of an LED - let's say 1000Hz - and at only 1 nit of brightness in a near pitch black enclosure, then gradually decreased in strobe rate until the test subject could distinctly see the flashing. Repeating four more times, trashing wild discrepancies. This then reporting a milliseconds average result. Retesting five or more times at random strobe rates to confirm this average, and per subject. It's reasonably well known already for over a decade or two in the field of optometry that iris color plays a strong role or correlation in this whereas brown or black eyes tend to have the worst residual retinal image, or ghosting, when seeing visual elements move across the subject's vision without tracking it as a point of focus. Meanwhile lighter iris colors like blue and green (or even white and purple while extremely rare do exist) which happen to be recessive genes do have significantly reduced RRI. Now, this has nothing to do with how quickly we perceive when we see something. This is only about how long "ghosting" lasts in our visual perception. This is more prominent with high contrast ghosting over low contrast, and our brains are well and truly tuned to obfuscate this effect. The near immediate change is acknowledged and "adjusted" in our brains REGARDLESS or iris color or residual retinal image. From there, our brains will only really acknowledge the subject of focus and automatically correct for "ghosting" so we don't notice it unless we're looking for it. The testing as described can easily be countered by the subject forcing their focus to detach and loosely scan around the visual space at random. Doing this will cause RRI dots to appear in their vision. Something similar can be done at home with simple cardstock. Place a large black sheet of whatever as your background. Use a small tack, pin, or anything small that will stay in place on the black as your focus point. Take a small piece of white cardstock and while focusing on the "target" slide that card at various speeds around the target. If you keep your vision centered on the target, but broaden your focus to include the card's movement, then you should see a "ghost" trailing the card rather quickly. This effect lessening as it gets closer to your point of focus; the center of your vision. This is also how those color wheels we learned to make in kindergarten changed colors as we spun them, and why changing the pattern of those colors changed the resulting color. (Source: Discussions with my many different optometrists, and various research books they've recommended me.)
I love games that don't care how much time I spend playing. This pretty much leaves older games and indie titles for me and I'm perfectly happy with that.
With a few exceptions, most of the games that have come out recently are garbage. Game companies put most of their efforts these days into figuring out how to milk the consumer as opposed to offering an overall great game experience. It's even become common to release unfinished games! This is "justified" by companies saying they will fix it with a day 1 patch.
The whole brain "frame rate" thing is *really cool* and makes me feel better about not being able to go above certain frame rates because I'm epileptic. Modern games and movies give me headaches on small screens (and big ones, depending on the type of sfx on screen at any given moment) it's validating in a way the average person doesn't usually have to think about.
remember when it was Doom, Quake, Red Alert, StarCraft, and maybe Battlezone 1998 or Wing Commander. back when the most important thing about a game, was that it was fun instead of how much modern-day politics and glitchy code you can cram into it, lol. With current graphics card prices on top of today's mess, a standard 52-card deck may be a better investment, lol.
Honestly, not surprised that gamers are clocking less hours. Quality of games has gone down, and for someone like me who really likes shooters, there isn't many options out there that are new. The options I do have are hyper sweaty competitive experiences because everyone wants to be the next Shroud, and the devs seem to only cater to a crowd that wants shooters to only exist as an E-sport. Beyond that, publishers want a live service game that just doesn't respect your time. Destiny 2 feels like it's damn near a full time job if you want to get the best gear, and with every other dev working on live service following their model, it's like they're all competing to monopolize my free time, and get me to spend money on microtransactions. I miss the era of games where devs took risks and we got new IPs from AAA studios frequently that weren't centered around microtransactions.
Imagine if discord forces you to watch one video a day from an advertiser? That advertiser gets 1.4 billion views in a day. Then... bro, for real discord could extort huge money for that add slot!
I am curious if exposure training has an effect on the FPS question. As experienced gamers who put a ton of money in the equipment have made themselves a standard their eyes have accustomed to. Then when that is reduced, they start to notice the issues. While if someone has not been exposed to high end performance, just good enough, they might not see an issue. Also I assume the types of games matter, as if people play slower paces games, they will not focus in every minor detail in every faction of a second, but when playing fast competitive games, the focus is alertness is on a different level. For me this was happened when playing Rocket league on a ps4 with a 50hz TV. No issue. Then I changed to a laptop with 144hz screen and getting used to that. When I tried to go back to 50hz if felt really janky.
It's so hard to justify buying new games now. I'm at a point where i refuse to buy early access games anymore because by the time the official launch comes around I've completely lost interest (still haven't gotten past act 2 in bg3). Also, i've been burnt by a few titles which has really soured me on early releases (Anthem). Even if it's not an early access title, so many games ship without being feature complete or, even worse, noticeably incomplete/broken (Diablo 4, CP77) that now i won't touch it until the reviews start getting better. SW Jedi: survivor and Cities skylines II are both still sitting in my wishlist going on near 6 mos to a year later waiting for good news or at least a killer sale. I honestly think companies constantly releasing titles purely to open new revenue sources rather than releasing the best product possible has really pushed the mono-gaming and game necromancy (play old stuff) consumer behaviors because why play a game that's buggy, broken, or incomplete when there are fun titles already out and about. Maybe i've finally aged out of FOMO... /shrug I am liking the new trend of $40 titles with mostly complete features and it's making me want to buck my trend a bit more. Been playing Last Epoch a ton and it's been worth the cost of admission so far.
Cannot 'see' the difference of higher fps... ok... but you can FEEL the difference on responsiveness. That's one of the huge differences to me about 60 vs 144 in certain game types. Playing Devil Daggers in 60 is a huuuuge no.
I've been waiting for a competitor to rise up for a year or 2 now. But Skype had to ruin itself for a lot of my friends to finally move to discord, so I wonder what it'll take for everyone to move to what's next.
I’m one of those folks playing older games. Other than BG3, I’ve been playing older titles I missed out on when I was younger and frankly, they’re more enjoyable than the drivel of the past couple years
When you look at the games we were getting 7 years ago, that’s not very long ago. Some of those games look better than the hot garbage coming out today.
In the article, they point out the major issue with this study. “At this stage, we don’t really know much about where this variation is coming from, and what it is connected to. It could have to do with our eyes, or it could be related to the brain filtering out information.” Our brain filters out noise. Flashes are pointless data unless they convey something meaningful . Playing a game does not have this and so you will perceive it unless you are not interested in what is being shown. Wine sommeliers have been busted more than once with cheap wine and they thought it was expensive so, take that how you will. I haven't played a single one of the top 5 games.
I trained and worked as a photographer for a few years. What I learned is that, what we see and therefore how many frames we can destinguise is mostly capped by the path the information takes through our nervosystem. We can train it to take an optimal path and individual nerves can also be shielded or something similar to transfer the information faster. But that's why small animals can reakt much faster than we can. They see and move much more responsive due to shorter signal paths
I mean I just go back to Morrowind and Nolvus Skyrim on the regular with a mix of Against the Storm and Baldur's Gate 3. While teaching my new baby gamer to play Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. I'm even making her finish Morrowind before letting her touch Skyrim.
Uh... Now that I read the tittle and watch the video... I definitely prefer older games from new ones, lots of content, community mods and randomizers are some of the reasons why. All the battle pass, macro-transaction and lootbox BS really turn me off from "modern" games, regardless of whether or not they affect gameplay. Add to the fact that I play in untraceable platforms and...
Gamer numbers dropping shouldn't be a concern to anyone but the Triple A giants. Everyone else is still able to make money and grow from it, it's really only those who have reached the ceiling and have so much overhead that they kind of need constant growth that should be worrying.
I play mostly games that are roughly 15 or so years old at this point. I see no reason to ever play most of these newer games outside of multiplayer ones as they just tend to fail me on so many factors vs older games. If I could buy all the older games from my childhood I would only need those to keep me happy in gaming. And for my most played in recent years is League of legends as finally got back into to it for mindless fun with friends online. I really wish that most newer games would focus more on making a fun game instead of what they have been doing for the past 5-7 years for the most part. Steam and all these other store fronts now get piled on shovelware and porn games that should just have their own type of store front.
We also have to consider dogmatic design now. Half-life two is one of the most renowned first person shooters ever one of the most renowned games ever, call of duty better so everybody copies of duty Shadow the Colossus is one of the most renowned open world games ever made one of the most renown games ever made , but far cry three sold better so everybody copies far cry three. When every game being made and sold is just marginal improvements or modifications on games, you already have why not just go back to the original ?
I’ve consistently been playing only games that are 6+ years old. Devs have consistently put out garbage across the industry for years and are finally feeling the pinch. Vote with your wallet!
I legit have no idea what people are talking about above 25. Under 25 ya I notice something but after that? I keep the steam FPS counter up on my computer and I straight up dont notice any differences after 25.
@@richardgaldos6901 I always thought people crying over no 60fps were legit elitists pigs my whole life crying over an imperceptible difference. But it seems I simply can't percieve that difference.
Or maybe there exist this thing called survivorship bias. Sure, there are 5 big games still big after 5 years, but how many games actualy came out 5+ years ago? How many of them are forgotten, or don't get much playtime any more?
@@reappermen And how many games in the last 5 years never got off the ground or were supreme disappointments? Redfall, Marvel Avengers, Lord of the Rings Gollum, Rise of Kong, The Day Before, Suicide Squad, etc. Feels like there's at least 5 of flops for every BG3 or Elden Ring.
@@TSD4027 oh, absolutely, a lot of new games more or less fail outright. But that has always been the case. Remeber the whole story about the E.T game? A fail so bad that it became a major part of videogame history? That was in 1982. Remeber in the 90 and 2000 there were a bunch of games that had gamebreaking bugs right out of the gate for most people, bck before patching was a thing so they were never fixed? Gaming, like movies, music, books and basically all other forms of entertainment has had hits, flops and everything in between for it's entire existence, nothing has changed about that. And it is not like there is a lackof new games people enjoy and/or want to play
@@reappermen Yes, I remember the story of the ET game. This is what happens when you have a whopping FIVE WEEKS of development time to meet a holiday sales goal that had unrealistic expectations in the first place due to the numbers of consoles in the hands of consumers. Yes there have always been bugs and bad games but more care was put into games before and were actually bug tested because they had one chance to get it right. Now players are the bug testers and many games release in a half finished beta state with the mentality of "get the sale first, patch later."
@@TSD4027 yeah, strong disagree with the amount of care out into the average game back then. Did they have less bugs in absolute numbers? Yes. Did they have less bugs per amount of content? Hell no! The situation didn't get better or worse really, it has always been mediocre. On the ET story: Can't imagine a game being pushed out on an unrealistic timeline or rush to release at a specific time to meet sales dates or quarterly figures. Totally not what is happening with plenty of big fails in the last few years ....
I'm fairly certain you are right about training. I used to not be able to tell the difference between 30+ frames because I was used to consoles. A while after getting a PC, it became hard to bear low FPS.
Since I was a kid, I've been trying to explain to people how temporal resolution works and everyone argued with me about it. I am a 144hz + gamer and I can track bullets from lower grain rifle rounds against the right background. How many of you can see BB's from guns that your friends can't? I have never met a black powder weapon I can't track the ball from, and most 9mm & .22 rounds against a clean background with the naked eye. Earned my pistol sharpshooter badge in bootcamp having had zero experience with handguns, and I obviously cleaned up with the rifle as I can correct for the next shot based upon the travel path of the round from the prior shot. First shot is nearly always just figuring out where the round travels in relation to the sight; every gun has it's own personality.
I am playing games from 15-25+ years ago. Spyro, Digimon World and TF2 comes to mind immediately. Older games just has more charm to me. (Not to say I exclusively play old games, but I gravitate to them a lot). And when there are so many games from the past I love and have yet to experience, why would I bother (most of the time) with new games that are full of bugs and corporate greed... I also started playing Factorio recently, which is getting up there in age as well.
Give whoever edited this video a bonus! The little comments added made me laugh so hard! "I like the 'humor' my WOW guild has." And shows pepe emotes was top notch.
Like with almost everything physiological, it's likely part training and part biology. There's probably someone out there seeing life at 240hz with no idea what a computer is, just the same as a pro console gamer swearing up and down that console is superior in every way.
I make less and less time for gaming. Part of it is that fewer games catch my eye because it's mostly piles of garbage. Part of it is I have other things I'd rather be doing. Part of it is that I do not fully control my schedule like 20 year old me did.
The FPS thing, I wish they got data on the the participants health conditions to see if there is a correlation between reaction speed, FPS, and bodily health (good diet and exercise). I have a sneaking suspecting that the people who can't see a difference have alot of unhealthy habits/a lack of healthy habits. I mostly want this because I have been saying *for years now* that when it comes to vidoegames, practice "doesn't" make perfect. This being due to a biological factor that defines reaction speed. A healthy body can react faster than an unhealthy body. No amount of practice alone will fix that because it's not tied to muscle memory but instead to the previously mentioned biologic factor. Videogames are not like sports, they are not a form of exercise/physical exertion. So while sports can help with that biological factor, unless it's VR, videogames will not. The work needed to be "perfect" requires improvements in the real world, not just in the game. It's also why the idea of a "competitive scene" for reaction-based game ques online is just a trash concept all around. No one wants to work out or eat differently just so they can be better at a darn videogame.
it's not just about a set frame rate, it's also about a margin for error, optimising a game for 60fps gives more margin for error then 30fps, lose 5fps from 60 isn't that much of a big deal, lose it from 30, and that can directly impact gameplay (even things like physics)
Mate and I are the same just with audio vs. visual. He can hear more than me, I can see more than him. It's resulted in some interesting conversations.
First of all, I am an older gamer (turning 50 this year) and I still play a lot of games that I've already played on the C64 and the Amiga 500 and a lot of really old PC games. I admit that nostalgia plays a role here for sure, but then again, the good and captivating gameplay is there and justifies spending time with those games. Just recently I've rediscovered Battle Isle: History Line 1914 -18 and when it comes to PC games, 'Incubation', the two 'MDK' games and the 'Schleichfahrt' games (I think they were called 'Archimedean Dynasty' in other countries) will always have a place on my HD. And when it comes to newer old games (if that makes sense) then I have my rotation of games that I will play time and again. Fallout: New Vegas comest to mind, lots of older FPS or Voctor Vran (still working on the 100%), Days Gone, Vampire: Bloodlines or the Dawn of War games. And about framerates, I jumped right from the Amiga 500 to PC and got my consoles relatively late. And when I played on the PS 3 when visitin friends, I always had the problem that no matter how great the games looked (I mean, Killzone 3 still looks _gorgeous),_ they always felt a bit... juddery. And with age, my eyesight is surely not getting better and for me personally, switching from a 60 hz monitor to a 120 hz monitor already was a blessing for my eyes and today, I am so, _so_ happy and spend the money for a 165 hz monitor, because it's significantly less straining for my eyes. It's quite interesting that a lot of people can't see the difference even between 30 hz and 60 hz, but for me even the jump from 120 hz to 165 hz is clearly visible.
I never really paid attention to what games I play, but now that I look at it, I really only play games from the ps1/2 era. The graphics are stylised instead of ugly realistic, and the gameplay is always good. Granted, I play JRPGs, but it feels like all of the good games are from the past, not current. And pixel art, I love pixel art. Smooth animations just makes me appreciate the artists and everyone who worked on it.
Beyond a certain point you might not notice an increase in image smoothness, but you can notice the difference in input lag. That's where higher refresh rates are excellent too.
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Smells like Baby Stink
16:10 As a matter of fact 60 FPS are not noticeable for about 95 % of the human population. Most people peak at about 50 FPS or below.
What they will notice however is if the 60 FPS (or above) is not stable.
Solution: DO NOT promote 60 FPS or higher if it isn't 100 % stable!
As an aging gamer, it's been years since i've put money down, game unseen, on any title. These companies refuse to put out feature complete titles in the initial release. I get nickeled and dimed constantly at the super market, Healthcare, vehicle maintenance, housing costs... ofc I'm going to play an old game! Genres benchmarks with high hour playtimes like Factorio, MC, MH:W that only ask me for time and aren't the latest AAA trainwreck are leagues ahead.
Yeah, Im much more comfortable waiting to play games now, even games I look forward to and want to play. I can just be busy or want to wait for a sale or whatever.
💯
Same here ... I'm becoming much more "choosy" when I buy a game, I never buy any games before watching a Let's Play video on TH-cam.
The funny thing is that my desire to play games is diminishing the more I get older even though as a retired person I have more time than ever.
Playing older titles effectively allows you to opt out of the hardware arms race too. All of the games I play at the moment are on a 8 year old i7 6700K CPU with a 2080 GFX card.
Remember kids, never pre-order a game. Wait for the reviews. Your fellow gamers thank you.
The problem with "Capture market, then work out how to monetize"
is that the act of later monetizing often, especially if done poorly, drives people to the next market.
Any examples? I feel like people say that, more than it actually being true.
Facebook is the biggest example. To a degree even WhatsApp.
@@nSnowCrow Facebook advertising is extremely successful. & it wasn't why people stopped using it.
Whatsapp is also incredibly successful still.
You're just making shit up.
It's a monopolistic mentality.
Its funny. Because these ceos don't understand gaming like they think they do.
They think they can "capture" the market like Walmart for example.
"Make ourselves the default, out spend competition. Gouge."
The problem is technology advanced so fast.
Unreal 5 gives indie devs the ability to punch above their weight, the execs thought they owned quality through acquisition. But indie devs have ZERO trouble pulling market share through passion and efficient tools.
Thats what happens when you don't understand the industry or what gamers want.
They understand market behavior in general and short term profit sheets.
@@YourBlackLocal If ad rates were anything to go by, possibly TH-cam. Although I feel like they are the exception. They keep cramming in more ads, knowing people don't like them, well their parent company knows at least. I remember Google coming out with a report more than a decade ago that basically said the worse the ads get, the more likely people will try to block them.
I think TH-cam is running on inertia because their competition was driven out and mainly leaving them. It was largely thanks to all the investor money that probably enabled them to stay afloat. I remember TH-cam for the longest time running in the red. I only use this site now out of habit and there really is no competitors. In order to compete with TH-cam, you need several things going and I am probably going to miss a few: active creators, a library of content, and enough money. They all kind of feed into each other, if you don't have them all, it falls apart. I think Microsoft tried to get into streaming when they poached Ninja for a bit and even they failed. This is probably why Elon Musk bought Twitter, instead of making a competitor from scratch.
If TH-cam did have a true competitor, I would probably switch over. I have been using this site since 1 or 2 years since it first started. The kind of content has generally gotten worse, used to find more interesting videos. In my view, TH-cam destroyed cable to essentially replace it and make it so cooperate safe. Can't even find some videos that went viral, probably because they changed the TOS and removed the content, like the animation for Me!Me!Me!. It's amazing how scrutinized animation gets, and the music industry largely gets ignored over the same type of content. It's also ironic that TH-cam wants to pivot to short video, when they killed it off their site long ago, which affected animation.
Although streaming might be a better example. I think most streaming sites will go away and consolidate content because they realize that it isn't profitable. They were probably better off creating content to sell to things like Netflix instead of trying to cut their own slice of the pie. They largely failed due to oversaturation and hosting this stuff being expensive. Although they did definitely tried to capture their own market and work on monetizing later.
I used to be of the opinion that I would gladly pay quite a bit for TH-cam, but not anymore because of how bad the site has gotten. I think TH-cam peaked 2012-2014 and plateau a bit and really started it's decline around 2018. It was around that time I noticed they started to actively push corporate channels more and making it harder for creators to compete. Probably happened because the legacy media started to heavily pivot online awhile back and were failing. So they probably gave TH-cam money to help promote them, because I think TH-cam had a report sawing they knew people were clicking their channels and therefore had to recommend them more. I still occasionally get recommendations for corporate channels, despite constantly telling TH-cam to never recommend them to me. It's insane how much you have to curate your feed now.
That right there is why everyone and every business fails for something else. They worry too much about FUTURE customers, rather than CURRENT customer satisfaction and eventually they have ZERO RETURNING customers. We watched it happen to cable in real time.
This is a fundamental of growth in business. But investor focused companies are stupid so...
@@RemyBeast I agree with you both. Unlimited grow is impossible. After a while companies ought to accept it and change priorities.
@@thepureheartofdark Pretty much. Money and people are not infinite, so logically speaking companies should grow to a specific size and try to maintain their customers, since the money invested in growing the customer base will eventually outstrip the return(law of diminishing returns).
But for some reason all these so-called 'businessmen' don't have the braincells to come up with the this, frankly obvious, thought.
@@Pulstar232 Don't attribute to stupidity that which is perfectly explained by perverse incentives. Investors get their dividends and sell their stock to greater fools who buy at inflated prices because high dividends show "growth". Management enables this because that's what they're paid to do. The core of the issue is that in a publicly traded company the owners have both the most power and the least accountability; a succesful investor is the archetypical petty dictator who loots the country, pockets the profits, and flees just before it all collapses, leaving others to deal with the aftermath.
Or in other words, the stock market is an ongoing economic disaster because the liquidity it offers makes destructive investment strategy the most profitable one - so profitable in fact that the whole boom-bust cycle is pretty much just a matter of people finding or buying loopholes, those causing a bubble followed by meltdown, and the regulators plugging them while the taxpayers foot the bill while desperately trying to survive a depression.
Or to put it even blunter: businessmen aren't stupid, they're evil.
@@Pulstar232 It''s because said businessmen make their fortunes and golden parachutes promising investors that they're the ones who'll get the business growing again, even if it is bs.
Stardew Vally 1000+ hours, Factorio 1000+ hours, Morrowind 1000+ hours
Heh..amateur at only 1000 hours of Satisfactory.
I only got 2 real games with that amount of hours. Civ 4 and Cities Skylines. And Cookie Clicker to but Idle games don't count since it plays itself while I do other things.
The game I put the most amount of hours in in 2023? Mass Effect Legendary.
1000 hours of POE
Still feel like a newbie at times
I think i got like 5k hours in league
And don't get us started about Rimworld...3000+ and I'm almost a noob compared to others 🙈
It’s almost like. Infinite growth is unattainable. Crazy.
"30 fps feels more cinematic than 60 fps" - Ubisoft (2014)
And Microsoft 2024
oh yeah? Next AAAAAA game will be locked to 24fps for that super cinematic feel
I mean they’re not wrong.
Cinematic FPS is still not baseline, they need to understand that. Fuck the counterargument.
15 is bliss
Cyberpunk predicted the future....everything is loot boxes
more like Mass Effect 3 predicted that....ME3 MP had boxes that you could very much buy with real money and I was laughed out of the room for pointing out the very pay to win aspect
who's laughing now people!?
this is such a nonsense comment...
@@judgedrekk2981 lmao right? These kids thinking this is a new problem are telling on themselves when its obviously something that's been happening for decades
Hold on, checking my coke points balance.
@@hundredhanded1205 we're sorry but you owe the coke company 10 points, we're now sending a team of ninjas to your location for collection purposes....
@@kezia8027 yeah it shows how fast people even forget the Battlefront 2 lootbox fiasco of 2017 just sheer ignorance!
5:03 why am I not surprised. You don’t need to bother with “EnGagEmEnT” mechanics in a lot of older games.
Videogames represents as much in US sales as film, TV, music, and professional sports, combined. I have to think that the biggest worry to the industry is inflation impacting the cost of the non-discretionary spending ( housing, transportation, insurance, etc ). If the core required expenses go up, there is less money left for entertainment.
Precisely.
If your new game can't compete with your old game, then don't bother.
This is exactly the reason why every company wants a live service though, you don't have to compete with your old work when you can just make it obsolete or even remove it from the game entirely and just have this forever game where content is disposable and people have NO CHOICE but to consume the latest content. It's arguably a good thing that they are failing hard at landing these forever games.
Venn diagram of executives bemoaning falling player counts and executives bitching about people needing to get back to work in the office despite ongoing virus risks is a circle.
I don't think the reduction in playtime is all that crazy. From just my own perspective as a student at the time I had way more time to game during the pandemic. Not only did I save 2-3 hours per day on travel, during breaks I was already sitting near my pc so I could also sneak in a quick session here and there. So 20 % for me definitely tracks, if not more.
right? Like shocker... people don't have as much downtime to play videogames as they did when we were quarantining???
When you learn how to see the difference between 30 and 60 FPS you can't really unsee it. It can actually be the difference between winning and losing duels in Overwatch.
Just because growth slowing down doesn’t mean it has to be bad for the industry/games
Video games in the US almost died overnight because Atari posted that their profits had increased by a slightly smaller margin compared to the previous year. It took Nintendo coming in years later with the NES for the industry to come back.
It's not enough to make money. They need to make all of the money and make it faster than the year before. Chasing infinite growth at any cost is all that companies care about.
@@Khotetsu Back then was a wholde differnet situation then now. Gameing is way to big to dissolve now. Alone for the fact that it has become a entertainment stable, like books and music. Let alone the amount of "running itself" via the Internet. I not sure, but i have the feeling a crash would bring more good then bad right now.
@@MeowMeowMeowMeowMeowMeowMeowww I was referring to it in reference to the nonsense of these companies seeking infinite growth and infinite profits. Profits rolling in at a slightly slower breakneck pace? Okay boys, the fad's over, let's pull out before the market collapses!
We're already seeing a crash of sorts, with the worst layoffs in the industry since the 2008 recession. I agree that it feels like a crash is needed to get rid of the stupid greed of the AAA industry, but I hope the workers don't get hurt along the way. Because they'll be the ones to suffer long before these greedy corporations and the CEOs who run them.
That counts for everything really, but thats not the thinking these corporate hacks have.
There's a story about the late, great baseball player Tony Gwynn. His son, who was a college player at the time, asked for advice on hitting a curveball. Tony Gwynn explained how you can look at the spin of the ball as it left the pitcher's hand and predict how it would break... to which his son replied, "Dad, nobody can see that except for you.".
roblox hasnt been a standalone game in a long time, its been a platform as long as i can remember. having it on the list of games is like having steam on there, or listing every unreal game as the engine itself.
I'm on Chrono Trigger right now. I very rarely play anything released within the last year, except Nintendo and FromSoft stuff, which is generally in a finished state when released. But I know i'm one of the very few not sick with FOMO. But sometimes I feel very lonely, seeing my friends angrily crash out of games, wasting their lifes in waiting queues, and getting scammed by every single early access or eating Marvel BS all day long...
That's why I keep reminding my friends to NEVER get a bethesda game until it is on sale because by the time it is on sale, the community would have finished the final 40% of the game with a mod by then.
That FOMO shit and chasing the popularity trend through society in any medium is so tiresome and the thing is rarely good. I have so many damn PC games on steam I could probably play new to me games forever at this point. But I do still jump on indie stuff which is where all the fun and art is these days. Like that game Dredge was so good. Oh and ive been playing DEEP ROCK GALATIC: SURVIVOR. Which is basically vampire survivors in the deep rock galactic universe and I really enjoy this and deep rock galactic. Theres still good stuff out there by good devs. Theyre usually not the type of thing millions of spergs play like COD or CS and just sit on it doing the same shit over and over again, so doesnt get reported much. Oh and im still playing Last Epoch. Games great. Way better than D4
I’m with you guys. Bought so many games on sale for proverbial pennies on the dollar, that I’ve got “new” (i.e. I’ve never played) games for probably a couple decades at this point.
As far as I can remember, the only full AAA price/release day purchases I’ve made in the last decade are RDR2, both new Zelda’s, both FFVII *RE*leases, and Ghost of Tsushima. All of those were more than worth the money to me. Everything else, on sale or second hand, baby. FOMO can kiss my arse. 😎
I’ll buy some indies at full price sometimes, but I can easily get 3-7 of those for what a major release costs in my region.
If you're going through old JRPGs you should play Xenoblade Chronicles, easily my favorite one after Chrono Trigger.
@@LordZedz Already played through all Xenoblade games :) I need to get through Xenogears and the Xenosaga ones though!
7yr old games, you mean games that don't have microtransactions and cosmetics?
Not to ruin your day, but Candy Crush has been out for 12 years.
What game are you talking about?😂
LOL. Never watch the video? Sadly these games played by many casuals are live service game and they blindly feed money into it.
A sad state of gaming truly.
@@Jinkypigs casuals? What does that even mean?
@@Jinkypigsreally? I’m sure the hardcore games are the one doing all the loot box opening and ista buy of battle passes.
The human eye starts detecting animation as “smooth” at 24 frames per second, many people being comfortable with 30fps if the animation is clean with no tearing or other problems isn’t surprising.
That sounds right to me. I legit have no idea what people are talking about above 25. Under 25 ya I notice something but after that? I keep the steam FPS counter up on my computer and I straight up dont notice any differences after 25.
@@richardgaldos6901 before I got old and my normal nearsighted glasses turned into bifocals I could see the difference, but only on higher resolution monitors and for shows or games with fast moving objects, hockey where you have a black puck on white ice is one of the best tests for if the refresh rate and resolution are really making a difference in what you are seeing. On a lower hertz the puck just teleports around, but if you have good eyes and good refresh rate on a sharp monitor you can actually follow the motion.
Other than that I really find that things like true black and good edge definition matter to me more these days, so I tend to optimize my games to take out all the blur effects and frame cap at 60fps to save power.
Heh, I remember when 20 FPS was considered playable for FS2004.
60 is nice and I can tell the difference. Though when it's not something you need fast reactions for though, like a third person rpg 30 is fine. @D fast reaction stuff, racing, fps 60 is preferable. 120 is for try-hard fps players. the difference can also be easier to spot depending on the monitor, if you watch 60fps on an entry level lcd monitor it will probably be blurring a bit through the frames at 60 so you don't notice the difference, but on a CRT where the pictures are actually flashing up at 60fps it's more noticeable.
Good luck playing fast-paced games. 60+ fps is still the standard for gaming. What's next? 360p is better than 1080p/2k/4k?
The 30 vs 60 fps comparisons tend to not take input latency into account. It's about the how the games feel to play more than how they look to watch
YES blah blah eyes shmyes, 144hz + is just smoother than 60hz at 60fps, I grew up getting migraines on xbox but low and behold I switch to pc and a 144hz monitor a while back and dont get headcahes anymore. 60fps on like a 144-240hz monitor id say is more inportant than pure fps on a 60hz monitor, so maybe the eye cant tell a difference but we arent watching a movie you are controling somthing and the smoothness helps.
@@Straymonsta exactly. if they really wanted to do a comprehensive study they'd have also tested whether those same subjects were able to tell if turning a light on is snappier with equivalently less input latency between 30 and 60 fps. not surprising to see researchers from biological sciences make mistakes like this though, reminds me of that one that thought they'd invented calculus in 1994 (and even then it wasn't proper calculus, just a worse version of the trapezium rule).
The study isn't about computer fps though, it's purely a study about eyes and temporal sensitivity outside the context of gaming. It APPLIES to gaming, but it isn't ABOUT gaming.
@@Straymonsta more important TO YOU, you mean. Honestly, the amount of ego in you 'hurr durr 60hz+ is automatically better because of muh personal anecdote' people! Completely failing to recognize that you aren't actually the protagonist of the world, and people can have experiences different to you.
input latency is directly related to "feel" though.
I always ignore the internet on April 1st.
i just learned to not take anything as serious on April First. treat everything as a joke.
@@Sniperbear13considering the silksong news which wasn't a joke yet became a joke, came out on April 1st makes me agree with you.
Not on twitter so I didn't see a single prank
Yeah I dont see anything because I dont really seek out social media or news and its blissful. Just YT videos, and games. No twitter, no facebook, no insta or fraggin tiktok. ew. I usually see if it YT'ers cover it, and they cover most big things allowing me to never stop foot in those cesspools again. Its not worth it if all you'd be doing is trolling which would be me.
As one of the people that can't tell the difference consistently between 30/60, it has saved me a fortune in PC parts over the years cause I'm fine being more than a few generations behind (and the games I like tend to be heavy on the CPU/Easy on the GPU. I've played at high framerates, and i'm back here running on budget graphics because it just doesn't look that different to me.
One of the best examples might be playing Rocket League on a decent PC with 240hz then trying to play again on a console.
Never realized it felt like such jello in comparison before that haha.
For me its motion sickness, lol. 30fps I'm okay but 60fps if its got head bob I can't be even slightly tired because it gives me motion sickness. I Love FO4 but it wasn't until a little over a year ago that I found a mod that helped reduce head bob... something that until Fo4 never really occurred to me. I mean I remember when Ark first came out in Early Access and my first suggestion was give an option to remove head bob and camera shake because of motion sickness. They thankfully patched it in quickly but for me 60 fps in that game was unplayable until they did. I hate over the shoulder camera view so FO4 has to be first person... thank you again modders because you let me continue playing my fave game, lol!
@@KalebSDay 240hz? Hahahahhahahaha
I dont see much difference either, and i end up using my 60hz monitor over the 165hz a lot.
I have however noticed i move windows and react to enemies quicker on the faster one,
Whether this is up to framerate or pixel response times i dont really know.
At this time there seems to be consensus that over 120hz better motion clarity with an oled is best, and i do believe that.
@@KalebSDay Input lag+ping is the important thing and 16ms + 8-16ms refresh still leaves me ahead of someone with a 240hz and 30ping connection.
My parents, who wre born in the 1930s, always swore they couldn't tell the difference between 480i and 720p, and 1080p. I never got a chance to ask them about 4K.
Sorry for your loss. They’ve got 8k in heaven
When dealing with properly anti-aliased content I tend to only be able to differentiate between 720p and 1080p in static images with lots of small details, like text with a small font. Otherwise I can't usually tell them apart.
When it comes to differentiating between 1080p and anything above it (4K, 8K, and whatever comes next) I frankly can't tell unless I almost glue my nose to the screen. When looking at the whole screen at a time, no way I could differentiate it.
480i to 720p, though, is like night and day for me. Heck, 480p to 720p is still very noticeable for me.
the editor is a real comedian and very good at his job. well done, good sir. you've managed to get a chuckle from me more than once. well done, indeed.
I now feel like a color-blind person at the paint store watching a couple argue over whether eggshell or ecru is the better color choice for their bathroom.
why are people covering this "study" of 80 people? what is going on?
slow news day, and I just got out of work. The eclipse is/was making people nuts even though I assume its over by now. it started like 2 hours or so ago.
the 60hz+ fanatics needed something to glom onto, so literally any tiny shred of evidence that validates their ego will be propped up front and center lmao
@renmcmanus This isn't really a first of its kind study. When I was in college we did the exact same experiment with an LED being driven by a Signal Generator on a class of about 40 students, and it was done for every cohort of students that went to that college.
It's kind of like making a scientific report about the fact that a pendulum will never reach a higher point in its arc in free motion. Is it scientific? Yes. Does there really need to be an article written about it for tennis? No.
guessing you've never looked at a case study
@thenobin This isn't a case study in either meaning of the term. They didn't follow-up with this group of 80 people after a significant period of time to see if the act of aging had an effect on their response. And it's not a case study in its other meaning in that the sample size is not large enough to be indicative of a whole. If they had done the test on 800 people a trend might eek out, but 80 is just too small of a sample size to determine anything related to a trait that is known to vary significantly.
This is literally a PhD student doing a one-off study that didn't pull enough participants to be statistically indicative of the claims they make.
Why people even arguing with other people's subjective experiences? If somebody says "This framerate is fine" or "This framerate is better", you don't... really have the authority to tell them they're wrong.
"I don't like these chips, they're are too spicy"
"No they're not"
They're chips. Eat the chips you want. Don't pay for chips you hate. It's annoying if they're not making the flavour you want as much, but you can't tell people they're wrong that they enjoy the taste of salt and vinegar just fine.
The blame is entirely on the gaming industry's business practices and on the bottomless greed inherent to capitalism. Before, I looked forward to new releases, today, I am thinking about how they will try to pull money out of my pockets. I stopped buying Paradox games, because they are never complete, and you will pay literally hundreds of dollars in DLC. My perception of game companies changed from "wow, a circus came to town, there will be shows and cotton candy and fireworks" to "Look out, the thieves are back, close the doors and windows, and keep eye on everything!".
As a PC gamer I can’t remember the last time I spent more than $40 for a game. There’s too many sales and they happen too often for me to change my spending habits. I don’t play competitive games so being a part of the new hotness isn’t important. Good things truly come to those who wait and at half the price.
There were CRT monitors that were going up to 85Hz so it was possible to play with 60+ FPS back in the day.
Hmm, I can def tell the diff between 30/60/120. I remember when I was a console peasant, playing H3 (30fps), then playing MW(somthing)(60fps), when I went back to H3, I felt like I was playing in slow motion.
When I was a poor kid with a shitty computer which purpose was to read email strenuously, 30 fps was amazing when I played diablo 2 for the first time.
Later in my teens I got a new computer and played counter-strike 1.5 with amazing 60fps, and later 1.6 also in 60 fps. Was like eye candy.
Then as I went to high school and got my first 120hz monitor and the mind blowing GTX 580 to play games... Everything else looked laggy.
I've gotten so sensitive to FPS that I can tell when a shitty computer drops from 30fps to 24fps (a common thing) which is also why I simply refuse to play on console.
Anecdote about the fps stuff and it being directly tied to brain function: Autism means a person's brain has a harder time prioritizing which data to process. For me, if I sit down and can focus on a screen without much else to mind, movement on screen seems more smooth than what I can perceive normally, which makes some videos and games seem 'more lifelike than life' for me. I'm also completely unbothered by framerate in games unless it drops way too low.
To contrast, a friend with autism has to purposely limit frames to 30 if it's for games she plays for longer stretches of time, because being focused on a screen at 60 will give her a headache. Could be there's too much to process at any given time at higher framerates. No hard evidence either of these things are directly related, of course, but seems like it 'would' make sense. I'd be interested in that research being taken further.
They need to earn more money as appose to "need to earn money".
Last time I've heard, Discord still wasn't profitable. So it is actually a matter of perspective. Whether you're looking at revenue or profit. It might be argued that if you are at a loss, you aren't earning money, you are losing money instead.
@@ForOne814 yeah? where did you hear it, because you didn't say.
@@ricky_pigeon in the news.
The way these companies work is that they run at a loss for years, paying off old debt with new loans and investor money, until they hit a tipping point where they have enough of a market to start squeezing for money to make a profit. It's the basic MO for venture capitalism. It's what Uber and Lyft did, as well as DoorDash and the like, and Facebook and Twitter before them. Twitch is in the same boat right now, trying to make a profit now that they have a big audience.
It's how Tumblr died, too. Tumblr ran at a loss for years, until it was big enough that they sold it to Verizon for the revenue potential of the userbase. Verizon then tried to sanitize it so that advertisers would pay them to run ads, and killed off the userbase in the process, selling Tumblr off a few years later for like 5% of what they bought it for.
6:16 lists games dominating playtime, I've never touched any of them
they're all massive crowdpleasers or children's games. Nobody you'll talk to outside minecraft youtube comments touches Fortnite, Roblox, etc. Nobody who actually is enthusiastic about videogames plays sports games because they're casual, poorly made cashgrabs that come out every year. It's for the actual jocks and sports nerds who just don't have a pickup game every night. What Bellular is saying makes sense- they're a silent majority who will never talk about it on reddit but are a huge portion of AAA revenue.
I have over 2500 games just from my Steam and GOG accounts and the only game from those lists I have is Minecraft (though BG3 and Elden Ring are on my wishlist, so I'm bound to get them sooner or later).
I mean, cost of living crises also. Less people are buying new games and consoles.
we are playing older games bacause they are good, new games are mostly unfinihed expensive sh*t
I don't think enough attention os given the importance of frame-timing. Frame-timing is the differencd between 30fps being almost unnoticeable vs. feeling like a gif.
Exactly. If the frame pacing is consistent, then any framerate will Look smooth (if it's above a certain value). But due to the way games drop fps they don't drop them with consisten frame Timing but inkonsistent causing the FPS being noticable
RE: 30v60 topic: For those unaware; the conceit of converting our eye-to-brain interpretation of the constant sensory input into a distinct "images per second" is a gross misnomer and very much clickbait BS. No, this should be in terms of milliseconds of residual retinal image, or sometimes referred to as image retention (but also a misnomer as that can apply to cameras as well). No matter how good or bad this is for you; higher framerate is always better for reasons beyond just your own personal RRI.
(Extended post for those curious)
Testing, if done as suggested in the video overview of the article, should have instead been a variable strobe rate starting at the highest possible strobe rate of an LED - let's say 1000Hz - and at only 1 nit of brightness in a near pitch black enclosure, then gradually decreased in strobe rate until the test subject could distinctly see the flashing. Repeating four more times, trashing wild discrepancies. This then reporting a milliseconds average result. Retesting five or more times at random strobe rates to confirm this average, and per subject.
It's reasonably well known already for over a decade or two in the field of optometry that iris color plays a strong role or correlation in this whereas brown or black eyes tend to have the worst residual retinal image, or ghosting, when seeing visual elements move across the subject's vision without tracking it as a point of focus. Meanwhile lighter iris colors like blue and green (or even white and purple while extremely rare do exist) which happen to be recessive genes do have significantly reduced RRI. Now, this has nothing to do with how quickly we perceive when we see something. This is only about how long "ghosting" lasts in our visual perception. This is more prominent with high contrast ghosting over low contrast, and our brains are well and truly tuned to obfuscate this effect. The near immediate change is acknowledged and "adjusted" in our brains REGARDLESS or iris color or residual retinal image. From there, our brains will only really acknowledge the subject of focus and automatically correct for "ghosting" so we don't notice it unless we're looking for it.
The testing as described can easily be countered by the subject forcing their focus to detach and loosely scan around the visual space at random. Doing this will cause RRI dots to appear in their vision. Something similar can be done at home with simple cardstock. Place a large black sheet of whatever as your background. Use a small tack, pin, or anything small that will stay in place on the black as your focus point. Take a small piece of white cardstock and while focusing on the "target" slide that card at various speeds around the target. If you keep your vision centered on the target, but broaden your focus to include the card's movement, then you should see a "ghost" trailing the card rather quickly. This effect lessening as it gets closer to your point of focus; the center of your vision. This is also how those color wheels we learned to make in kindergarten changed colors as we spun them, and why changing the pattern of those colors changed the resulting color.
(Source: Discussions with my many different optometrists, and various research books they've recommended me.)
To the "we're playing older games", I'm watching this while fishing in Stardew Valley.
I love games that don't care how much time I spend playing. This pretty much leaves older games and indie titles for me and I'm perfectly happy with that.
With a few exceptions, most of the games that have come out recently are garbage. Game companies put most of their efforts these days into figuring out how to milk the consumer as opposed to offering an overall great game experience. It's even become common to release unfinished games! This is "justified" by companies saying they will fix it with a day 1 patch.
Factorio Michael, Factorio. Eight years old and still king of the factory games.
The whole brain "frame rate" thing is *really cool* and makes me feel better about not being able to go above certain frame rates because I'm epileptic. Modern games and movies give me headaches on small screens (and big ones, depending on the type of sfx on screen at any given moment) it's validating in a way the average person doesn't usually have to think about.
remember when it was Doom, Quake, Red Alert, StarCraft, and maybe Battlezone 1998 or Wing Commander. back when the most important thing about a game, was that it was fun instead of how much modern-day politics and glitchy code you can cram into it, lol. With current graphics card prices on top of today's mess, a standard 52-card deck may be a better investment, lol.
Honestly, not surprised that gamers are clocking less hours. Quality of games has gone down, and for someone like me who really likes shooters, there isn't many options out there that are new. The options I do have are hyper sweaty competitive experiences because everyone wants to be the next Shroud, and the devs seem to only cater to a crowd that wants shooters to only exist as an E-sport.
Beyond that, publishers want a live service game that just doesn't respect your time. Destiny 2 feels like it's damn near a full time job if you want to get the best gear, and with every other dev working on live service following their model, it's like they're all competing to monopolize my free time, and get me to spend money on microtransactions.
I miss the era of games where devs took risks and we got new IPs from AAA studios frequently that weren't centered around microtransactions.
Imagine if discord forces you to watch one video a day from an advertiser? That advertiser gets 1.4 billion views in a day. Then... bro, for real discord could extort huge money for that add slot!
it's disheartening to see Ubislop is still being bought.
I am curious if exposure training has an effect on the FPS question. As experienced gamers who put a ton of money in the equipment have made themselves a standard their eyes have accustomed to. Then when that is reduced, they start to notice the issues. While if someone has not been exposed to high end performance, just good enough, they might not see an issue. Also I assume the types of games matter, as if people play slower paces games, they will not focus in every minor detail in every faction of a second, but when playing fast competitive games, the focus is alertness is on a different level. For me this was happened when playing Rocket league on a ps4 with a 50hz TV. No issue. Then I changed to a laptop with 144hz screen and getting used to that. When I tried to go back to 50hz if felt really janky.
I’ve TRIED to get into using discord a few times but it is the absolute most onerous and confusing interface I think I’ve ever used in my life.
It didn't used to be, but it's incredibly overwhelming to join any new server now. There's forced tutorials! It's insane and messy! I hate it!
It's so hard to justify buying new games now. I'm at a point where i refuse to buy early access games anymore because by the time the official launch comes around I've completely lost interest (still haven't gotten past act 2 in bg3). Also, i've been burnt by a few titles which has really soured me on early releases (Anthem). Even if it's not an early access title, so many games ship without being feature complete or, even worse, noticeably incomplete/broken (Diablo 4, CP77) that now i won't touch it until the reviews start getting better. SW Jedi: survivor and Cities skylines II are both still sitting in my wishlist going on near 6 mos to a year later waiting for good news or at least a killer sale.
I honestly think companies constantly releasing titles purely to open new revenue sources rather than releasing the best product possible has really pushed the mono-gaming and game necromancy (play old stuff) consumer behaviors because why play a game that's buggy, broken, or incomplete when there are fun titles already out and about. Maybe i've finally aged out of FOMO... /shrug
I am liking the new trend of $40 titles with mostly complete features and it's making me want to buck my trend a bit more. Been playing Last Epoch a ton and it's been worth the cost of admission so far.
Cannot 'see' the difference of higher fps... ok... but you can FEEL the difference on responsiveness. That's one of the huge differences to me about 60 vs 144 in certain game types. Playing Devil Daggers in 60 is a huuuuge no.
the nVidia sales department really likes players like you.
Everyone knows that taste is measured in LPS (licks per second)
This made me chuckle
I saw so many Steam friends login for the first time in years when the lockdowns hit. They are now gone again lol
“pEoPlE aRe pLaYiNg lEsS tHaN pAnDeMic pEaK”
No way! You think that would’ve been something to have always accounted for?
bro i don't even know why that would surprise a pebble
1 frame a second is pretty top tier, never heard anyone complain about playing where's waldo
If Discord starts with in-app ads that I can't block I'm just going to stop using it and move on to the next.
I don't particularly miss MSN lol.
I've been waiting for a competitor to rise up for a year or 2 now. But Skype had to ruin itself for a lot of my friends to finally move to discord, so I wonder what it'll take for everyone to move to what's next.
I’m one of those folks playing older games. Other than BG3, I’ve been playing older titles I missed out on when I was younger and frankly, they’re more enjoyable than the drivel of the past couple years
When you look at the games we were getting 7 years ago, that’s not very long ago. Some of those games look better than the hot garbage coming out today.
In the article, they point out the major issue with this study. “At this stage, we don’t really know much about where this variation is coming from, and what it is connected to. It could have to do with our eyes, or it could be related to the brain filtering out information.”
Our brain filters out noise. Flashes are pointless data unless they convey something meaningful . Playing a game does not have this and so you will perceive it unless you are not interested in what is being shown.
Wine sommeliers have been busted more than once with cheap wine and they thought it was expensive so, take that how you will.
I haven't played a single one of the top 5 games.
I trained and worked as a photographer for a few years. What I learned is that, what we see and therefore how many frames we can destinguise is mostly capped by the path the information takes through our nervosystem. We can train it to take an optimal path and individual nerves can also be shielded or something similar to transfer the information faster.
But that's why small animals can reakt much faster than we can. They see and move much more responsive due to shorter signal paths
I try not to play live service games. That leaves me with a lot of older games.
old games! I played through Ratchet: Gladiator (Deadlocked in the US) this weekend. It was a lot of fun.
I mean I just go back to Morrowind and Nolvus Skyrim on the regular with a mix of Against the Storm and Baldur's Gate 3. While teaching my new baby gamer to play Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. I'm even making her finish Morrowind before letting her touch Skyrim.
Uh... Now that I read the tittle and watch the video... I definitely prefer older games from new ones, lots of content, community mods and randomizers are some of the reasons why. All the battle pass, macro-transaction and lootbox BS really turn me off from "modern" games, regardless of whether or not they affect gameplay. Add to the fact that I play in untraceable platforms and...
Gamer numbers dropping shouldn't be a concern to anyone but the Triple A giants. Everyone else is still able to make money and grow from it, it's really only those who have reached the ceiling and have so much overhead that they kind of need constant growth that should be worrying.
People are playing old games because they're better games lol. We're all tired of the MTX and battle passes and paywalls.
I play mostly games that are roughly 15 or so years old at this point.
I see no reason to ever play most of these newer games outside of multiplayer ones as they just tend to fail me on so many factors vs older games.
If I could buy all the older games from my childhood I would only need those to keep me happy in gaming.
And for my most played in recent years is League of legends as finally got back into to it for mindless fun with friends online.
I really wish that most newer games would focus more on making a fun game instead of what they have been doing for the past 5-7 years for the most part.
Steam and all these other store fronts now get piled on shovelware and porn games that should just have their own type of store front.
We also have to consider dogmatic design now. Half-life two is one of the most renowned first person shooters ever one of the most renowned games ever, call of duty better so everybody copies of duty
Shadow the Colossus is one of the most renowned open world games ever made one of the most renown games ever made , but far cry three sold better so everybody copies far cry three.
When every game being made and sold is just marginal improvements or modifications on games, you already have why not just go back to the original ?
Really liked the editing on this one; specifically the editor chiming in with a lot of quips. Need more of that to spice up the news. :)
I’ve consistently been playing only games that are 6+ years old. Devs have consistently put out garbage across the industry for years and are finally feeling the pinch. Vote with your wallet!
The moment I start seeing ads in discord is the moment I stop using it.
Vencord/Vesktop will patch it for sure.
60-120+ ok... but the diference of 30-60 is too easy to notice, its like a "lag" of sorts...
I legit have no idea what people are talking about above 25. Under 25 ya I notice something but after that? I keep the steam FPS counter up on my computer and I straight up dont notice any differences after 25.
@@richardgaldos6901 you can bug people using 50 fps, some say it give a more "artistic" feel.
@@richardgaldos6901
I always thought people crying over no 60fps were legit elitists pigs my whole life crying over an imperceptible difference. But it seems I simply can't percieve that difference.
@@honaleri I basically thought the same thing lol
@@richardgaldos6901 Stop copy pasting your answer on every comment thread.
I feel a strange kinship with the little text in the bottom left as it pops up. This is a Thank You for you, Mr. Editor.
now that that banner add idea is in the ether, it's sure to happen.
You mean most games made in the last 5 years fucking suck? Who would've guessed?
Or maybe there exist this thing called survivorship bias. Sure, there are 5 big games still big after 5 years, but how many games actualy came out 5+ years ago? How many of them are forgotten, or don't get much playtime any more?
@@reappermen And how many games in the last 5 years never got off the ground or were supreme disappointments? Redfall, Marvel Avengers, Lord of the Rings Gollum, Rise of Kong, The Day Before, Suicide Squad, etc. Feels like there's at least 5 of flops for every BG3 or Elden Ring.
@@TSD4027 oh, absolutely, a lot of new games more or less fail outright. But that has always been the case. Remeber the whole story about the E.T game? A fail so bad that it became a major part of videogame history? That was in 1982. Remeber in the 90 and 2000 there were a bunch of games that had gamebreaking bugs right out of the gate for most people, bck before patching was a thing so they were never fixed?
Gaming, like movies, music, books and basically all other forms of entertainment has had hits, flops and everything in between for it's entire existence, nothing has changed about that. And it is not like there is a lackof new games people enjoy and/or want to play
@@reappermen Yes, I remember the story of the ET game. This is what happens when you have a whopping FIVE WEEKS of development time to meet a holiday sales goal that had unrealistic expectations in the first place due to the numbers of consoles in the hands of consumers. Yes there have always been bugs and bad games but more care was put into games before and were actually bug tested because they had one chance to get it right.
Now players are the bug testers and many games release in a half finished beta state with the mentality of "get the sale first, patch later."
@@TSD4027 yeah, strong disagree with the amount of care out into the average game back then. Did they have less bugs in absolute numbers? Yes. Did they have less bugs per amount of content? Hell no! The situation didn't get better or worse really, it has always been mediocre.
On the ET story: Can't imagine a game being pushed out on an unrealistic timeline or rush to release at a specific time to meet sales dates or quarterly figures. Totally not what is happening with plenty of big fails in the last few years ....
So the Discord thing ...... lets be honest we are headed for enshitification arent we
I'm fairly certain you are right about training. I used to not be able to tell the difference between 30+ frames because I was used to consoles. A while after getting a PC, it became hard to bear low FPS.
Didn’t excepting Bellular to be shilling for discord if all things.
Since I was a kid, I've been trying to explain to people how temporal resolution works and everyone argued with me about it. I am a 144hz + gamer and I can track bullets from lower grain rifle rounds against the right background. How many of you can see BB's from guns that your friends can't? I have never met a black powder weapon I can't track the ball from, and most 9mm & .22 rounds against a clean background with the naked eye. Earned my pistol sharpshooter badge in bootcamp having had zero experience with handguns, and I obviously cleaned up with the rifle as I can correct for the next shot based upon the travel path of the round from the prior shot. First shot is nearly always just figuring out where the round travels in relation to the sight; every gun has it's own personality.
love the little editor notes throughout :D
That flashing light test is flawed because persistence of vision is a thing
5:34 I've been playing more old games.
I am playing games from 15-25+ years ago. Spyro, Digimon World and TF2 comes to mind immediately. Older games just has more charm to me. (Not to say I exclusively play old games, but I gravitate to them a lot). And when there are so many games from the past I love and have yet to experience, why would I bother (most of the time) with new games that are full of bugs and corporate greed... I also started playing Factorio recently, which is getting up there in age as well.
The games that withstand the test of time are the ones worth playing I guess.
Great work again from you and the rest of the team at Bellular. Thank you!
Give whoever edited this video a bonus! The little comments added made me laugh so hard! "I like the 'humor' my WOW guild has." And shows pepe emotes was top notch.
Like with almost everything physiological, it's likely part training and part biology. There's probably someone out there seeing life at 240hz with no idea what a computer is, just the same as a pro console gamer swearing up and down that console is superior in every way.
I make less and less time for gaming. Part of it is that fewer games catch my eye because it's mostly piles of garbage. Part of it is I have other things I'd rather be doing. Part of it is that I do not fully control my schedule like 20 year old me did.
Editor absolutely killing it this one.
The FPS thing, I wish they got data on the the participants health conditions to see if there is a correlation between reaction speed, FPS, and bodily health (good diet and exercise). I have a sneaking suspecting that the people who can't see a difference have alot of unhealthy habits/a lack of healthy habits.
I mostly want this because I have been saying *for years now* that when it comes to vidoegames, practice "doesn't" make perfect. This being due to a biological factor that defines reaction speed. A healthy body can react faster than an unhealthy body. No amount of practice alone will fix that because it's not tied to muscle memory but instead to the previously mentioned biologic factor. Videogames are not like sports, they are not a form of exercise/physical exertion. So while sports can help with that biological factor, unless it's VR, videogames will not. The work needed to be "perfect" requires improvements in the real world, not just in the game.
It's also why the idea of a "competitive scene" for reaction-based game ques online is just a trash concept all around. No one wants to work out or eat differently just so they can be better at a darn videogame.
All my major gaming interests ate older titles, and my next "new" interest is thousand year door remake, lol
it's not just about a set frame rate, it's also about a margin for error, optimising a game for 60fps gives more margin for error then 30fps, lose 5fps from 60 isn't that much of a big deal, lose it from 30, and that can directly impact gameplay (even things like physics)
I think I can barely tell the difference between 30/60 but not enough to care honestly
Mate and I are the same just with audio vs. visual. He can hear more than me, I can see more than him. It's resulted in some interesting conversations.
First of all, I am an older gamer (turning 50 this year) and I still play a lot of games that I've already played on the C64 and the Amiga 500 and a lot of really old PC games. I admit that nostalgia plays a role here for sure, but then again, the good and captivating gameplay is there and justifies spending time with those games. Just recently I've rediscovered Battle Isle: History Line 1914 -18 and when it comes to PC games, 'Incubation', the two 'MDK' games and the 'Schleichfahrt' games (I think they were called 'Archimedean Dynasty' in other countries) will always have a place on my HD. And when it comes to newer old games (if that makes sense) then I have my rotation of games that I will play time and again. Fallout: New Vegas comest to mind, lots of older FPS or Voctor Vran (still working on the 100%), Days Gone, Vampire: Bloodlines or the Dawn of War games.
And about framerates, I jumped right from the Amiga 500 to PC and got my consoles relatively late. And when I played on the PS 3 when visitin friends, I always had the problem that no matter how great the games looked (I mean, Killzone 3 still looks _gorgeous),_ they always felt a bit... juddery. And with age, my eyesight is surely not getting better and for me personally, switching from a 60 hz monitor to a 120 hz monitor already was a blessing for my eyes and today, I am so, _so_ happy and spend the money for a 165 hz monitor, because it's significantly less straining for my eyes.
It's quite interesting that a lot of people can't see the difference even between 30 hz and 60 hz, but for me even the jump from 120 hz to 165 hz is clearly visible.
i still play skyrim often, even to this day
I never really paid attention to what games I play, but now that I look at it, I really only play games from the ps1/2 era. The graphics are stylised instead of ugly realistic, and the gameplay is always good. Granted, I play JRPGs, but it feels like all of the good games are from the past, not current. And pixel art, I love pixel art. Smooth animations just makes me appreciate the artists and everyone who worked on it.
Beyond a certain point you might not notice an increase in image smoothness, but you can notice the difference in input lag.
That's where higher refresh rates are excellent too.