What Happens if you Renounce Your Citizenship But Don't Belong to Another Country When You Do It?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2018
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It turns out, renouncing your citizenship to a given nation is generally a fairly simple affair in many nations of the world. It doesn’t even usually cost that much. For example, in the UK- fittingly for a country stereotypical known for its aversion to social conflict- renouncing citizenship can be done by mail and costs a mere £272.
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Sources:
travel.state.gov/content/trav...
www.gov.uk/renounce-british-n...
www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nic...
www.unhcr.org/pages/4e12db4a6....
www.gov.uk/types-of-british-n...
www.unhcr.org/stateless-people...
www.investopedia.com/articles/...
www.bbc.co.uk/news/35383435
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On January 19, 1943, the dutch Crown Princess Juliana gave birth to Princess Margriet in a hospital in Canada's capital city, Ottawa. In Canada, citizenship is given to anyone born on Canadian soil, however back then, the children of Dutch citizens couldn't get Dutch citizenship if they were born in foreign lands. Without Dutch citizenship, Princess Margriet would have lost her place in the line of succession to the throne. In order to remedy this situation, the Canadian federal government declared the maternity ward of that hospital to be temporarily "International Territory", thus negating the Canadian citizenship she would have gotten and using a loophole in the Dutch laws since she wasn't technically born in a foreign country.
That's interesting. I wonder why her mother would have been traveling so close to her due date knowing about that law?
@@mentallydisturbedscience8900 It was WWII they moved to canada to escape the war since the Netherlands was occupied by the Nazis they didnt move by choice
@@mentallydisturbedscience8900 I was about to ask the same, but then I remembered that in 1943 WW2 was still going pretty strong.
So basically canada had to cover the queen of the netherlands ass for their own up-their-own-ass law.
No, Canada did it as a favor for the Dutch. The British basically kidnapped the Queen and some of the rest of the royal family to get them out before the Germans could get them (the Brit soldiers also were tasked with taking as much gold and diamonds as they could as well). The Queen stayed in England and Juliana was shipped off to Canada. As a thank you for saving Princess Marg's citizenship, after the war the royal family sent 100,000 tulip bulbs as a thank you to Canada (+10,000 more every year after). Ottawa has a huge tulip festival every year and is a major tourist draw.
"Oh you no longer want to be a member of our nation? Well, ummm, give us money first or we won't let you."
I don't mind to a certain extent. It is a service being carried out, after all. However the sums are pretty ridiculous.
My dual citizenship says I'll just leave
@@realDarkPeterson
They money from that.
Bosnia made roughly 2 million last year, I think, from people renouncing citizenships.
The sadder part is that the people got none of these 2 million.
Ana - literally my life right now, Canadian whom of which met my now husband online, playing video games on Xbox hahaha!! Of all places, lol.
I’m from Canada Ontario and am 23 my husband is 26 and him and I got legally married soon as I moved, all of that.. I’m still working on getting my paperwork all sent in .. god it’s freaking annoying as heck!!! I’m trying to get into Arizona - USA, and I had everything all sent and they send it back because I’m freakin adopted and when my adoptive parents divorced for some reason my fathers name was taken off my certificate.. which was odd so... ugh..
Lil Spouse Good luck that sounds like a pain to deal with. I know the United States is very imperfect but I'm glad you're here.
Disgruntled person: "I am hereby renouncing my citizenship."
Government: "There's a tax for that."
Press X to Doubt.
of course there is - the list of things that don't have taxes is way shorter nowadays...
@@BahamutEx IRS: is that a complaint? There's a tax for that
Yeah I don't get this. What if he just tears up the documents?
@@abdulbar8592 do you think getting citizenship is as simple as printing out a bunch of papers? Then why do you think tearing up those papers is enough for renouncing citizenship?
My girlfriend is officially stateless due to her family having to flee tibet during the Chinese invasion... it's a pain in the arse for her to get visas to visit anywhere.
if she's special, marry her and she gets yours
@DeeJay Develop A citizenship usually requires you live a certain years in the country and actively pay taxes (usually 5-10) and depending on the country there may be language, culture and history tests. It also involves paying a tax which usually is not cheap.
Unless you marry, have relatives living there or speak the language perfectly, getting citizenship somewhere else is a horrible process.
Then marry her, you idiot.
Guys he said girlfriend. He probably doesnt even know if he wants to marry her yet.
@@Adrian2140
Not that much actually, you can get citizenship without thst much knowledge of language in Europe.
Just know a bit more thsn the basics and you are not tested in history, you just have to live a few years in a particular country.
In Sweden, for example, it's five.
You just go to the office, sing the anthem and get your citizenship.
You missed Belgium.
Belgium requires you to state you want to stay a Belgian at 21. Lots of Belgians working overseas forget this or don't know this. They find out when they apply for a passport renewal and find that they are no longer citizens.
Happens all the time.
Wow
Belgium is kinda fucked. Why would that be a thing?
Spain and Sweden does the same
how the fuck they didnt know that?
That’s infuriating.
I was like stateless for 10 years or more (i am realizing this just now) , because i was born in the USSR in 1987 but my parents moved to Bulgaria before the USSR was dissolved and i didn't get new russian passport neither a bulgarian one until i was in 7-th grade, i even don't know how i was going to school without beeing a bulgarian citizen at all :D
Georgi Hristov Legend
@Jude Barz I'm sorry you experienced racism... I promise we aren't all that way
maybe bulgaria isn't full of bullshit bureaucracy?
U went to school as an Alien from area 51🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@Jude Barz
That is not slut-shaming but standard morality.
Thank you for letting me know the world is just one big prison.
You can't just let anyone in without knowing anything about them
As soon as you're born.
Well they make it hard to get visas and citizenship to keep as few people from wondering around the world as possible.
Otherwise people from poor areas would flood into the richer areas and ruin their economy with the sudden influx of immigration. Which also usually comes with a higher crime rate, unemployment and other negative economic affects.
It might feel like a prison but if they didn't purposely make people's mobility more limited it would be impossible to maintain a stable economy.
@@AtemiRaven it's obvious you're pro govt. Parents facilitate and make decisions for their children because the children aren't smart enough to make decisions for themselves quite yet. That's exactly how the govt views us. They keep us dumb and uneducated so we will never be able to facilitate for ourselves. Anarchy is the way. In the animal kingdom there are no cops or govt. You just gotta learn to defend yourself better, and there is power in numbers so instead of families dividing they would have to unite in order for survival
The queen is the HBIC. She owns 16 territories when there are people who are homeless. Think about that
"...the downsides of becoming stateless and existing in such a state" - I see what you did there.
Vsauce your British accent is pretty good.
Fun fact: IIRC, Simon has said that he's been occasionally criticized by British people for his "fake" or "odd" sounding accent. He attributes this (if it's actually even true) to the fact that he's lived outside the UK for many years now. For the record, I don't think he looks like Michael from Vsauce AT ALL, other than the fact that he's bald and has a full beard. Also, Michael has more hair than Simon because Simon fully shaves his head while Michael does not.
Hey vsauce micheal here
@@Duncan_Idaho_Potato ...its a joke tho
@@rodrigoa.m3566 Yes, I know. At least 5 people make it on Every. Single. Video.
Hehehe,my Sekai Sensei 🐆
You live in an airport like Tom hanks
Leads The Fallen Brilliant movie!!
Trust in me and fall as well.
Leads The Fallen omg. That movie was part of my childhood.
th-cam.com/video/XIrxOLc5Cbs/w-d-xo.html This guy is stuck in an airport just like Tom Hanks.
Yup
One thing that I’m surprised wasn’t covered in this video are the countries that don’t allow you to renounce their citizenship (many in Latin America and the Middle East for example) and the interesting histories behind those policies.
He:...that’s when Dashlane come in.
Me: Double tap on the right screen to fast forward.
Imagine using mobile
Edit: I now use mobile sometimes ._.
@@ashleyberkowitz8772 Oh, how the mighty of fallen lol.
@@ashleyberkowitz8772 Not trying to be malicious just found this funny.
I tend to tap about 9/10 times, usually skips just about the entire add. Ad reads are so dumb... advertisers make your stuff interesting... even when I see a product that I'm interested in I will ALWAYS look for a a competitor that does not annoy me with ads
@@George-fu9vu daddy gotta pay the bills You know
A colleague of mine was a US citizen. He lived and worked for decades in Germany. From him I first heard he had to file a tax declaration for the US as well and they had to use the bank account of his wife for everything.
He renounced his US citizenship a few years back because according to him “it was a pain in the ass”.
He now has German citizenship as he is married to a German women.
He also told me about the “nice” papers he got informing him that he is now on a watchlist. Crazy US treating him kinda like a traitor.
sheesh, you get put on a watch list just for renouncing citizenship, that's just bullshit
@@darkpixel1128 Try speaking truth to power & see what happens. Land of the "free"?
He must not have paid back taxes or has debts in America. Most likely the reason for him being on a watch list.
@@ashishpatel350 It's mentioned in the video that U.S. citizenship can't be renounced until all outstanding taxes are paid, so that's not it.
@@elainec6687 that's not entirely true. You have the option to pay your taxrate or a capital gains tax. You pick. The tax rate in the US is around 40-52 percent depending on the state. People choose to pay 15 percent and just leave the rest.
One of the Facebook founders made 2 billion dollars and his choice was to pay half or go to Japan and only pay 15 percent but you aren't allowed back in America if you don't pay the remainder.
A new independent country for the stateless now
I'm working on it.
Then they wouldn’t be stateless
Dušan Xmetov But then theykll get kicked out of the country
confederate states of america
Just put them on an island with a rain puddle and say goodluck. Least long as they gave it up willingly
When I was born I was stateless, according to my parents it was a pain. A week after I was born I nearly got deported lol.
You should have been deported! So you could be deported back to your own country! Logic 100
@@prabhsaini1 bro the doctors were gonna put them back in their mom
@@prabhsaini1 I mean Antarctica is the common heritage of mankind, so gtfo
"We deny your existence".
What county were you born in??
What i gather from this is that the US is very touchy. "Oh things didnt work out? Well you should have thought of that before you hurt my feelings by rescinding then huh?"
Its more of a measure of preventing foreign spies from infiltrating the US... Lots of people during the cold war renounced their citizenship to dodge the draft and many came back as enemy nations agents approached them and paid them to become citizens again as a way of having people on the inside...
Nowadays they just sign the spies up to go to US universities instead...
some people have the opposite problem.
my father emigrated from Israel to Australia at the age of 7, he was raised Australian and considered himself to be Australian, as Israel did not accept renunciation of citizenship (rules may have changed) when he visited some extended family in Israel he was in trouble for having skipped out on his national service. they did, however, accept a promise that he would come back and do it soon, in what seemed like a standard workaround for the situation, it did mean he functionally couldn't go back after that point because Israeli law considered him to be a citizen who had broken their national military service laws. so he was in the odd position of being unable to visit a country because he was born there.
note these events occurred in the late 70s and my father died in 95, rules may have changed in that time.
I'm sorry
good god, how fast have you been growing? i remember when you had less than 100k subs,
and still filmed in front of just a plain green screen.
good for you man, im happy to see good people thriving
Most places in the world: "You pay these taxes because you live here." America: "You pay these taxes because we own you."
Isnt that why there was a civil war with England lol
Good point.
Most places in the world: "We're going to take like 60% of your income and there's nothing you can do about it, ahhahah!" America: "We'll take a cool 20ish percent and not treat our citizens like children."
Also, isn't it odd that America is one of the only countries where you can renounce citizenship at any time and they can't tell you "no." When the rest of the world can say, "no you can't renounce citizenship, we actually do own you apparently, now pay your insane tax rate and be happy." Sounds fair.
@@Mysteryskatin You get what you pay for, and some people would like full service for something they're paying in on, and others want the barest minimums, even if that could cost them in every other respect besides financial. To each his own, I guess. I think what irks some the most is the idea that future people may end up landing decidedly on full-service, while the minimalist view takes its place in history. Until then, there's this place where you can renounce citizenship and immediately be charged for the results of having done so, and teaches us all to revere the Boston Tea Party event and the subsequent detachment from the country that forced us to pay taxes for services we weren't using, and then taxes us for services we're not using if we live abroad. Some people agree that this makes sense, but some people do not. Personally, I don't believe it makes all that much sense in general to separate people by the origin of their birth and/or parents as opposed to the place they are actually a part of, but it seems to really give our collective governments a buzz, so what do I know?
@@bearwarner4994 You're correct; you get what you pay for. At least I can decide what I want. I'm not told what I need and then forced to pay for it.
The government shouldn't play a parental role in your life, it should be a mediating force. If you want to renounce citizenship and the ramifications are clearly explained to you, you're an adult and you should be able to. How can that possibly be construed as worse than a system that says, "we know better than you, and you cannot do as you wish even though it would hurt nobody but yourself, now give us half your income and shut up"? That's incredibly condescending. You would think that one of the attributes of a free society would be the right to leave the society if you wish, right?...
Content begins at 0:20
Runs through 9:25
Skip to "Bonus Facts" at 11:05
Corey Copeland thank u
*To the top with him!!*
Then when Simon can't get any advertisers he goes to a different job and the ads go on a different chanel.
Another way to involuntarily renounce your Citizenship ( For a US citizen.) is to join a foreign military and become an official officer of that military.
There's a long list on one of the pages of the US passport (book) ; but most of them have since been ruled against the US Constitution.
Kay that one might actually be considered treason
johnny elkins
It’s only treason if you join the military of someone we are at war with, you can join allied militaries, soldiers do it all the time especially if they feel that they can do more by staying and fighting for that country than by being sent to a base and doing nothing.
Or some Americans join the French foreign legion in order to learn French and get citizenship there. But you’ll have to stay in there for like 5 years I believe.
Apart of Israel
Wanna avoid paining US taxes while living in France? Join foreign legoin
I hereby officially declare i am belong to the earth. My country (earth) is much larger than yours!
This is what you are in reality
But mankind is so criminal, that he want to invade even outer places
Wrong, because your country is mine, too. :-)
Virtue signal
Earth? too small
I declare i belong to the milky way!
@@diablo.the.cheater how about the whole universe?
@Today I Found Out
You glossed over one of the key qualifications to renounce U.S. Citizenship: Under the applicable law, 8 USC § 1481(5), the renuciation must be executed "before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States IN A FOREIGN STATE," i.e., you must be outside of the USA at the time.
I mean in theory you could do it from the consulate/embassy of the country your applying for citizenship to. While it may be in the US the grounds are technically in that country.
You guys sound smart
That’s why a bunch of people want to renounce lol. So they can leave America.
@@Moonbovine Ya most people don't understand how nice the US is like seriously even if I commit many felonies ill still be given 3 hot meals a day and a warm safe place to sleep...
If you manage to fail building a life in the US you should be removed from the gene pool...
It's less trouble to get a passport and talk smack about your homeland in another country.
Depends on your homeland and where you go.
So basically if I go to North Korea, even tho I hate kimmy poo and DPRK I can talk shit about America without getting killed?
You could probably be used in propaganda,
See this american prefers our country.
Meaning we are better than america.
@@randomelk9801 could I do it to inflame the war? Basically play both sides like in sicario day of the soldado? Go to NK with a loud speaker saying shit about U.S. then come back to the states with a loudspeaker saying shit about NK and have everyone armed with pitchforks and 2×4's?
@@theenzoferrari458 maybe choose another country, because in those cases you will be mostly preaching to the choir. I don't expect a large effect to ensue.
If you do that between France and the UK, maybe...
Like the bonus fact said, my brother lives in Switzerland, so now he has to pay taxes to both the US and Switzerland, which ends up being approximately all his money. Switzerland isn't exactly known for being cheap to live in!
Also, like he said, it's almost impossible for him to get a good Swiss bank account, making it super difficult to rent from some places.
If he makes more than $110k, he wouldn't have all his money taken. If he makes less than that, he wouldn't pay American taxes.
Micah Philson you don’t have to pay that much taxes in Switzerland usually, unless you’re rich.
@@TheFriendlyInvader It's often better to take the deduction of (approximately) $110k because, even if you make more than that, you only get taxed on the portion greater than the deduction.
Also, the credits function in dollar amounts. The math approximately works out to what you said, but can be quite different in certain cases.
The problem is the U.S. tax system. Speaking from experience at the International Taxation Services Office in Canada and having dealt with the U.S. as well as many other counties tax laws. Canada taxes based on residency and the U.S. is based on citizenship. As far as your brother having to pay taxes to both countries, that is not true. There are tax treaties in effect which are specifically there to avoid double taxation. Now if you mean that the income he receives is taxed at a different rate in the U.S. and he has to cover the difference, then again I say, you can blame the tax code of the U.S. for that. Not being a U.S. tax pro, I would suggest as some have, to look into foreign and over seas tax credits or at the extreme, renounce his citizenship ? As I said, working for ITSO a Canadian citizen who has no income from Canada and has fewer residential primary and secondary ties to Canada, (House, family, car, bank account, religious or any other groups (Shriner's club, etc.) vacation home not lived in year round, etc.) than an other country, there is no need to fill a Canadian tax return but there may be a benefit to do so, such as child tax credit or any other refundable tax credit, as well as a refund for any taxes paid over what you would have paid in Canada (not always and in all cases). Either your brother is getting fucked by his tax advisor or it's just the U.S. tax code under the Republicunts, I mean how else are the 1% supposed to get there 2 billion $ tax cut that Trumptard promised them ? LOL. When the rest of the world said you should put your 65 to 75 year old, semi retarded, doddering old fools in a home, we didn't mean the White House...lmfao
Sounds like your brother needs to read more.
Happy New Year, Simon! Thanks for all the channels of interest you provide! If only your vlogs would come back!!
❤️🙏🧐🤓✌️
Anyone commenting about the sponsoring, just be glad you don't have yet another channel promoting Raid Shadow Legends.
Wow, I literally had this topic (among others) today in a university lecture on international law. This timing is almost unsettling.
I'm not saying we're watching your every move, but I'm also not not saying that. ;-) -Daven
this guys channel has been doing this to me for months
The scar thing for me is I was just thinking about this a few hours ago.
Lizard Master Race confirmed
Fancy. After Southern Jutland was given back by the Germans following the first world war, my great grandfather didn't have his paperwork treated properly due to a feud with the guy who was supposed to deal with it. So now I'm a third generation immigrant despite my family being Danish for nearly a thousand years. Thanks stupid stateless shizzle.
Did all of your great grandfathers decedents marry other immigrants? Because I'd expect your other seven great grandparents being Dutch would override that status.
@@Jotari I can't say I know how to mix what I assume is fraction based nationality with generations? Also, Danish, not Dutch.
Nice. A native Danish immigrant in Denmark :D Bureaucracy is the best sometimes. But indeed, at which point does your family stop being "immigrants" then? At least in Finland I think there are just immigrants, citizens with a foreign background and native citizens.
Well, based on your certificate of birth you should be able to solve the problem. Also, you probably have a social security card. That means you can get a passport, which again means you have Danish nationality.
@@kalleklp7291 Keep in mind, this was an issue my grandfather dealt with. When he went to Copenhagen during his conscription, he had his uniform stolen. Thinking he had sold it (Because it was apparently kinda valuable) he got into a lot of trouble with his superiors. When they then tried to dig into his files, it turned out there were none, and the commander had it sorted out. Very nice of him too.
Excellent presentation of the information. Succinct, comprehensive, well spoken, well edited, great supporting photos, etc. well done!
We had a stateless customer when I worked for a bank. We had to enter NWIP as his country code - nowhere in particular. He lived on a ship, and I have no idea if he ever managed to set foot on land whenever they docked somewhere.
The moment you realize the hair on his head renounced their citizenship and emigrated to his face. :)
feeshschticks lmao
Baldness was a sign of wealth and power in Egypt hairy people where seen as
unclean.
mine own are in a protracted retreat to the back of my neck and lower back and there is no convincing of them to stop or lessen the speed of their march
@@scottmantooth8785 I'm having an overpopulation problem. I haven't lost any hair yet, but the further away from 30 I get, I keep getting more in new places.
Immigrated*
I'm an American who moved overseas in 2010. That Act has made it nearly impossible to get a bank account where I live, and I can't obtain legal residency without one. As a result, I have to bounce between the US, non-Schnegkin countries and my primary home in Greece every 90 days to avoid huge fines for over-staying. I make waaay less than $100,00 a year.
What the hell is a non-Schnegkin country?
Haha shouldn't have left America
darillio They’re countries that are not part of The Schengen Area in Europe. The Schengen Area is basically 26 countries that don’t have internal borders which allows people to travel freely within them.
That is messed. I got a bank account as soon as I landed in the EU, with no job or perm address... try Deutsche Bank, or Com Direct (latter does not have monthly fees)
Probably because you stole my avatar :p
My dad was born on a U.S. military base in the Philippines and when his parents brought him back to the states his birth certificate never followed him. Later the base shut down and all of their documents were destroyed. So my father was technically a stateless person for over 40 years. He managed to get by normally and didn't even know he was stateless, even though he had been in and out of court and served a sentence for a felony. It wasn't until he applied for a passport to travel to Canada that he found out that he needed to be naturalized and had to fight for the fees and testing to be waived since he was born on a military base.
Omg I’ve been wondering about this for a couple of weeks. Thanks
The United States ALWAYS has to be the exception, even if there’s no good reason whatsoever to want to be the exception.
Mr Shambleface . Contrarians at heart.
The thing is, there is good behind the idea in terms of targetting asshole tax-dodging rich people. South of the USA is the carribean where people (rich) set up their business and personal addresses and even gain citizenship in these tax havens, thus the USA loses out on a lot of tax revenue. Poor and middle class people can't benifit from this but rich people can exploit the system.
The idea of limiting it to people over 100k is a good idea, although I think it should be like 250k so it targets the truly rich, but not say... lawyers and other hard working people.
Greece's financial woes are largely in part due to its wealthy being able to easily pay their taxes abroad and dodge greek taxes, now Greece wants to figure out how to get that tax money back to greece to try to fix the budget
US is just taking after its left driving, imperial measurement using father
The US is just the rebel child, Canada and Australia at least listen to daddy Britain
@@stuffums - this is not limited to the Caribbean, and, with enough imagination, someone living under the poverty line in the US can benefit massively from foreign institutions - banks or governments.
Even sheltering yourself in the U.S. can be done at very little cost and still benefit the average worker - I don't even see why one would renounce their citizenship other than the very extreme examples.
The major counter to the limits on the individual and seeking an obvious attempt to conceal wealth is the Supreme Court ruling that a Corporation is a "Person" in the US. Pair that with the ease of generating serial LLCs and spread across several States, hiding wealth doesn't require anything off shore, certainly not renouncing your citizenship.
Your shengen area map is incorrect; the UK is not in the shengen agreement.
And Austria is
And romania is not
ireland is not either.
The unified Ireland should offend nobody at all.
And Ireland is unified in his map.
Great! Thanks for this video!! Now I know what I'm gonna do this weekend.
I love when people do videos on things I never even thought to think about.
What happens if a prisoner renounces citizenship?
World.exe not responding
He would have to do this in front of consulate or embassy outside of the country, not feasible unless if he leaves prison.
Or what about if they're on probation?
Prisoners can't renounce citizenship, it's not practical because the consulate is not going to come to the prison to accept your renunciation.
If one can pay the ridiculous fees, and are still incarcerated when the decision is made, one still will be detained, but likely worse for the ware. Of course, if incarceration occurs after the filing for renunciation is made, then the prisoner will still remain imprisoned.
I don't think they would suddenly release the prisoner. Maybe they would. Logic tells me no, but...
Just say you're from Wakanda.
Or Asgard!
@@shibolinemress8913 or from knowwhere.
I say kekistan is a better choice. less evil purple aliens to snap you out of existence.
Erehwon, Brigadoon, Shangri-la or Sealand are also possible
15 minutes ago I (finally) became a citizen of Arstotzka
Thank you. I needed this info.
I have both an American and an Norwegian citizenship as my dad is American and my mom is Norwegian. I will never give up this as it makes traveling and moving to other countries very easy as i can just choose witch passport i want to use. Woo!
Well, you can always buy a Sealand or Monaco citizenship if it is that important. lol
Sealand forever!
Or the Principality of New Utopia. They'll get around to building a platform in the ocean any day now...
@@Gr3nadgr3gory Forvik rules the waves! :)
being citizen of Monaco IS nice. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mon%C3%A9gasque_nationality_law#Visa_requirements_for_Mon%C3%A9gasque_citizens :D
I have duel U.S. / Conch Republic citizenship.
Yes, the Supreme Court technically ruled in 1948 in Zadvydas v. Davis that indefinite detention is unconstitutional. HOWEVER, in Jennings v. Rodriguez, a case from earlier this year, the Supreme Court said that there is no constitutional right for a bond hearing in immigration cases for non-citizens (so undocumented, visa holders, or green card holders). Can you guess what you need to get out of detention? Yup, a bond hearing. Essentially, the Supreme Court made indefinite detention constitutional for non-citizens.
So much for unalianable rights hu?
Robert Harris ... Well not that unexpected given the provisions outlined in the constitution.
Non-citizens do not have the Right to be in the United States.
@@TwoWholeWorms you should delete the 2nd half of your comment and replace it with
"As long as you follow our laws and come to this great land legally."
Robert Greary
My moral compass doesn’t allow me to accept the indefinite detention of human beings, regardless of their color or country of origin.
But, then again, I have a moral compass and I’m not a xenophobic asshole who thinks it’s okay to lock up people who are seeking asylum (which is legal and it’s illegal to deny them the chance to present themselves at the border to ask for asylum) or who have committed a misdemeanor (which is what entering the US without permission is).
I’m only sad and dismayed at the lack of morals by so many racist, uninformed Americans.
This was interesting. Thank you for this information.
On November 20th, I am formally renouncing my US citizenship. Yeah! But for that, you need to appear twice, not once and as for taxes, you need to have 5 years of prior tax returns done and the year of the renunciation must also be done the following year. So my 2019 taxes will need to be filed in 2020, the exit tax docs as well, then I am free! I have another passport of the country I currently live in and which is also my country of birth.
But this was a good recap of the situation... I was also born stateless as my father was a political refugee, so I was born as a protégée of the United Nations. And this despite having a Belgian mother. Before 1965, in Belgium, you took the nationality of your father. After that, the parents could choose.
@Luaay E - It sounds more like she is retaining her old life - possibly one of the people affected by the 2010 law?
That's stupid... You could have just become a duel citizen...
@@happyjohn354 hi. I was a dual citizen of Belgium and US. I gave it up cuz of politics, taxation and Belgium is a neutral country where we have access to pretty much everywhere. I will eventually go back to US but just for visiting friends, family and tourism. It is a beautiful country from a natural point of view.
@@edezagon One of my friends actually managed to get 3 different citizenships due to his parents being from different countries but growing up in the US
Thanks for the info. I am planning on renouncing in the next few years
Simon is an example of how TH-cam should be. Keep up the amazing work on all your channels man.
The government drops you off into the middle of the nearest ocean. Nuff said.
Free helicopter rides.
Bermuda Triangle.
Oh hey bin Laden
Oh you get a free lift ? aint they nice.
SRNF Hopefully with some weights tied to your body.
I've personally been in a similar situation for a short while. During the Bosnian civil war in 1990's, I've been what they'd call "displaced person", among many other "displaced" or refugees. Displaced simply meant we couldn't get outside of the country, but we could move to the more "friendly" territory. During battles for my hometown, better said - after they ended in another warring side taking control, school archive has been burned, as well as local town hall archive, with the purpose to stop displaced people to come back after the war, or have justification for their claims of land ownership, etc. So I've spent few months without any official papers, and I've never been able to prove my school grades in junior years, they just wrote/invented average ones instead, way lower than they were. Luckily for citizenship, other Yugoslavian republics also had some of those archives still (it was one country a few years before), and I was able to prove it eventually. Just the other day I've found an old certificate that proved I was "stateless", and granted me some rights. :) I can only imagine how hard it gets with people who lose their identity due to dumb reasons, and with it their freedom.
Woooooh, Simon, you are looking particularly handsome in this video!! I just had to turn on the A/C and sit down for this one!
Wonderful lighting, great shots, and perhaps an upgraded camera or format your cinematographer is using (?) is certainly highlighting all your attributes. 😊
Technically, US citizens were required to file taxes in the USA even before FATCA passed, but (as you mention) most people did not have to file in the event that they didn’t earn enough to make compliance worth pursuing. It was just that FATCA started enforcing this even more strictly, in order to keep rich and wealthy individuals from just failing to report income. The gains from increased enforcement of taxes from these individuals was expected to offset the costs spent on ensuring compliance from everyone… Of course, no thought was given to the small guys who sometimes did not even earn enough to even qualify for filing taxes in the first place, if only they were living in the USA.
This happened to my sister, who even though if she lived in the USA earned so little that even filing her taxes was deemed unnecessary, let alone not needing to pay any, but now finds herself needing to file her back taxes to validate that she does not owe anything before she can shell out the 2.5k to renounce her citizenship.
puellanivis Don’t owe anything unless that income was earned through federal privilege. Send a corrected w2 to the irs. www.Losthorizons.com I pay no federal or state income taxes legally according to the definitions of the IRC.
I'm under the impression that even if you don't earn enough to incur any tax liability, you would still technically have to file your tax returns.
Who the tax applies to is of most importance. Prior to WW2, less than 10% of the working population paid any income tax and no tax laws have changed since then. This is all historical evidence anyone can research. www.Losthorizons.com
Reta 4U Send a self corrected w2/1099 (form 4852) rebuting the informational return filed on behalf of you by your employer to the irs stating you fall outside the definitions stated in USC 26 sections 3121 and 3401. In fact, read ALL of USC 26. Per the IRS rules, you ARE allowed to do this since you have first hand knowledge. Don't do what everyone else does just because everyone else does, actually read to see what the law says.
I'm surprised you didn't mention "Sovereign Citizens."
Probably because they don't actually exist and is just an excuse used by crazy people to try and get away with breaking the law.
Sovereign is one thing. A "citizen" is another.
"It is an established fact that the United States Federal Government has been dissolved by the Emergency Banking Act , March 9, 1933, 48 stat 1., Public Law 89-719; declared by President Roosevelt, being bankrupt and insolvent, H.J.R. 192, 73rd Congress in session June 5, 1933--Joint Resolution To Suspend The Gold Standard and Abrogate The Gold Clause dissolved the Sovereign Authority of the United States and the official capacities of all United States Governmental Offices, Officers, and Departments and is further evidence that the United States Federal Government exists in name only." United States Congressional Record, March 17, 1993, vol. 33"
"We have in our political system a government of the United States and a government of each of the several States. Each one of these governments is distinct from the others, and each has citizens of it’s own...”
United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875)
“...he was not a citizen of the United States, he was a citizen and voter of the State,...” “One may be a citizen of a State an yet not a citizen of the United States”.
McDonel v. The State, 90 Ind. 320 (1883)
“That there is a citizenship of the United States and citizenship of a state,...”
Tashiro v. Jordan, 201 Cal. 236 (1927)
"A citizen of the United States is a citizen of the federal government ..."
Kitchens v. Steele, 112 F.Supp 383
"The term 'citizen' in the United States, is analogous to the term `subject' in common law; the change of phrase has resulted from the change in government."-- State v. Manuel, 20 NC 122
“Every man is independent of all laws, except those prescribed by nature. He is not bound by any institutions formed by his fellowmen without his consent."
--CRUDEN v. NEALE 2N.C. (1796) 2 SE 70
The fact is, if one did not knowingly and with full appreciation of all circumstances thereof into into any "contract" whatsoever, then, there is no contract at all. Full disclosure is required. If a government did not tell you that they were incorporating your "name", and so making your "surety" for a cestui que trust, then said "government" acts in bad faith and no contract exists at all.
In other words: If one has not knowingly and with full appreciation of all circumstances thereof, conveyed, consented, bargained, sold or waived one's unalienable rights or rights by any name or nomenclature, THEN, no contract exists at all.
If one did not ever knowingly and with full appreciation of all circumstances thereof makes oneself "surety" for debts, liabilities, obligations, compelled performance, and/or bankruptcy for any entity, fictional or real, by any name or nomenclature, THEN, no contract exists.
All human-made "governments" on earth today (with few exceptions--and certainly all industrialized peoples which are associated with the UN) are not countries at all, not nations either, but are corporations (cestui que trustent).
If one did not ever knowingly and with full appreciation of all circumstances thereof enter a contract to be property of a corporation, then you are already not actually a "citizen" already, for if you did not knowingly agree to being enslaved, no contract exists.
It is a simple process for giving the "governments" back their IDs, etc. It costs nothing at all. I don't care what they say.
I am "stateless". Yet, I am free and the PIGs (PIG=Person In Government) refuse to come near me or arrest me for fear that I will tell prisoners how to get free and clear of the PIGs. And I (and other "stateless" souls) travel in "packs",
There are some seriously tough things to being "stateless", but there are lots of honorable and therefore good, means to live life without being a slave.
there to broke to officially renounce. tbh it should be free or cheaper so people like them can fuck off and be deported
@@spiderzvow1 ,
I don't understand. What are you talking about?
What is "tbh"? What should be "free or cheaper"? Do you mean breaking with the U.S. should be free or cheaper? It can be done for free. Always. I don't care what the corporation that pretends to be a country says. It's easy to do, but not an easy road to walk once done.
@@seaghandalriata2059 - That all sounds great until the IRS freezes your assets in your new country, or imposes an international bank levy on your account to collect your back taxes. The IRS can, and does, levy funds from bank accounts in foreign countries. I mean, there's Bitcoin I guess.
10:04 serious shade there, Simon 😂💀
Thank you. It was informing. I enjoyed it.
I love the camera changes. Looks more professional and like a news station. Love the stuff you do. Can you do why Japan is a place seen as a nerd/anime full country. Like why they use it when in their commercial. Or why English is seen as the most difficult language to learn.
English is often seen as hard due to the lack of rules and mix of both Latin and Germanic origin which, especially for Eastern country's, it can be quite hard to learn.
Then there is the different spellings with Traditional English and American English as well as words meaning the same thing and some prounincitation not being in other languages.
@@krimzonhunt7929 it's also hard because English has the most words.
I have never heard that English is hard to learn? It's usually germanic languages that are mentioned
Both things you said seem to be stereotypes (english being hard? i have never heard of that in my life), pretty dumb one's at that, like most stereotypes.
trackerjacker2 English is actually very easy to learn... My native language has 7 grammatical cases, lol
Thank to TIFO, I sound more educated to strangers than I really am
Katie Willis ikr. I feel so smart lol
You could also just say that you are, in fact, becoming more educated. It's just somewhat sporadically and not through the traditional means.
I recently read a book called "The Art of Not Being Governed" that explores several aspects of statelessness in human history where it appears it was clearly the preference of the people involved. Many of the "hill people" of Southeast Asia have a history of flight from states, with a number of their cultural practices rendering them more difficult to make and keep "legible" to nearby states, thus avoiding conscription, corvee labor, taxes, religious persecution, and direct slavery depending on the particulars of time and place. Modern nations like Vietnam and Myanmar have gone to great lengths to separate these people from their preferred condition as non-citizens.
LOL at the example of a renouncement (renunciation?) document being from Ann Arbor, the Berkeley of Michigan.
4:40 is not showing the Schengen Area. Austria is missing. And the British Isles are no full member. There is a passport check when going from Germany to the UK. Been there, done that.
So pleased I'm not the only one bothered by that :-). The Republic of Ireland and United Kingdom have a confusingly named 'common travel area' which is similar in concept to Schengen but is between the ROI and UK only. I think there are some circumstances in which a Citizen of an EU/EEA country can travel from the Schengen area to the Common Travel Area with a form of ID other than a passport, but that still doesn't work for a stateless person.
There's even more wrong with the map - Switzerland is although not part of the EU part of the Schengen-area (which is why I don't get how Austria isn't included in the map, even if you confuse those two...) - Liechtenstein too is part of Schengen (but not even I care for Liechtenstein).
Croatia - included in the map and part of the EU - is actually NOT part of Schengen.
All I wanted to say is that this genuinely makes me furious :)
On a closer look, Luxembourg is also left out - luckily for Mr Whilster cartographers are generally a non-violent bunch.
"British Isles" what's that? Did you mean to say Ireland and Britain?
Given the context I presume the intention is to mean the entire archipelago (the island of Ireland, the island of Great Britain and the thousands of smaller island such as: Isle of Man, the Hebrides, Orkney, Isle of White, Anglesea, Achill island etc etc) plus the channel islands of Jersey and Guernsey.
I've heard the term 'British isles' is controversial in some quarters, but I don't know of a better, widely recognised term that inclusively describes of all of those islands. 'Ireland and Britain' isn't fully clear, I think most people would understand Isle of White etc to be included under 'Britain' and and Achill etc to be included under 'Ireland', but might be understood to exclude the Isle of Man, and is ambiguous about Northern Ireland as isn't explicit whether we're talking about the island of Ireland or the Republic of Ireland . If there is a different term for that group of islands I would be glad to learn it.
Can you do a video on the potential problems or even perks of having dual citizenship? If already done please let me know. I was born in Germany to Americans who were visiting. It's more complicated than that but that's the basics .. was told I have dual citizenship by my mom but have never have had any problems yet lol
The United States does not formallyrecognize dual citizenship. However, it also has not taken any stand against it, either legally or politically. Typically, noAmerican will forfeit his or hercitizenship by undertaking the responsibilities of citizenship in another country. Yep I copy pasted that😁
I believe Germany doesn't allow duel citizenship unless it is with another EU country. If you are a US citizen and want to be a German citizen you would have to give up US Citizenship. Which means you can't be duel.
My aunt married a man that lives in Scotland and she has dual citizenship.
@@rainyisland8676 , you are correct. @ Robert, Germany does not allow dual citizenship. They stopped quite a while back. I was born there and had dual citizenship. I know many Germans who came to the US and had to choose. They felt like their motherland didnt care.
I will tell you, make sure you always have a birth certificate. Most people just contact their state born in for one. You have to go through D.C., and sometimes have your mom and dad certificates.
My son joined the Military and gets alot of questions regarding my birth and citizenship for every posting and rank up. I ordered a birth certificate for him to just keep. I was afraid mine would get lost.
When you do need it, They dont accept copies, only registered proof. Mine is 4 pages, not including my parents pages lol
@@autotechxbox163 Scotland still has dual citizenship
Today i found Out this video, in my recommendations and i loved it
What you missed talking about, is that if you can depatriate or desovereign a piece of land paid-in-full from the former host country (eyes of the world on Canada for this one concerning Crown Land), and then denounce your own citizenship with your land to inhabit, can file your land as a micro-nation (like many in the Pacific Ocean) with the United Nations and thus gain certain protections and counselling from them. The big and yet unrealized bonus of this, is that as True Independent Micro-Nations if you can create Official Treaties with others like yourself, only furthers credibility of international standing, as each Micro-Nation recognizes the other, should they be challenged singularly by any of the much larger bodied nations, can have legal merit in court via proof of Treaty Recognition, including any Trade Agreements and "Military" Support/Agreement To Defence. Should any of the larger nations take actions against you and thus against the UN which is technically protecting you, can apply supporting sanctions against the illegally oppressing larger country. This, is how the little guys together can win, in theory.
I really enjoy your videos, it's definitely one of my favorite TH-cam channels ✊🏼 it's really important to mention detention of immigrants in the US is largely motivated by profit as detention centers are private, not state run. Asylum seekers can be detained for literally years - doing nothing but following the law of presenting themselves to a point of entry - all the while companies (that happened to lobby for state and federal laws encouraging a minimum national detention quota) have every incentive to keep them detained for as long as possible.
I would rather submit to being detained than enter a country illegally.
Of course it's taxes. It's always taxes.
Because what's more American than tax evasion?
Whats more american than double taxation
Generally speaking the more American thing that that is telling the Govt where to shove it. That being said always pay your taxes lol sneaky bastards will use those as some way to send your ass to prison for a very long time. Just ask all those Gangsters from the 20's or mob bosses haha.
Military interventions and coups?
I love you Karl! Great article! :D
I'm American and I live in the UK. I'm self-employed, so I actually am double taxed. The US has a separate self employment tax that doesn't take into account if you've already paid foreign taxes. I've earned less than $1000 in a year and still owe in the US at a rate of around 30%. It's not even worth it to me to earn any money anymore. I pulled my books from publication until I get UK citizenship and renounce my US citizenship. I didn't hate America when I left, but I do now.
TL;DR - You're screwed. Mostly because of the Passport regime since the 1920s.
i like passports, then we know whos coming and leaving. like terrorists or other criminals.
@@df5687 You're not familiar with border security then. There's a reason we want a wall.
@@screamtoasigh9984 except the wall doesnt help with the tunnels and thats how the people you're thinking of, get themselves and their drugs/guns/etc into the country
not really im canadian, feel free to come up for a visit and smoke some weed and use some free healthcare... just bring your passport so we know you are a legal american citizen eligible to enter canada lol. not being sarcastic either, i pay my taxes and i am one of 36 million who doesnt mind certain americans using our healthcare who cant afford the privatized system in america. we may not be better off, but we can lend our neighbours a helping hand when needed. you build a wall up here us canadians will tear it right down to let yall in again for both our benefits. just dont bring drugs, organized crime, and unwanted behaviours like pedophilia or domestic abuse.... security isn't the main issue for canada's borders.
ScreamToASigh Except a walk wouldn’t stop the vast majority of people coming in. It would barely stop those who are crossing. “The Wall” is a rallying cry for those with subpar intelligence that have no idea or want to actually research things.
So I can't just become a citizen of the Universe? Because that's how I feel!
Everyone is born a citizen of the universe :)
I feel like I am a brain surgeon, but the damn hospitals and research institutes all demand official papers! Talk about oppressed.
GRBTutorials you’re a sovereign citizen aren’t you
Of course you can but it may be some time before any Earth nation recognizes the universe as a sovereign nation.
That makes as much saying you’re a citizen of tabby cats or a citizen of that small rock at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. You aren’t a citizen to physical objects like soil, the world, or the universe. Citizenship is granted to people by nonphysical entities that are constructed by people, like the United States of America or the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. So you can create your own state called the Universe and then use it to grant yourself citizenship, though most other states will not acknowledge the legitimacy of your state.
Hi! Just offering some corrections :)
The image at 4:44 has a map with a few problems.
1. It shows Northern Ireland as a part of Ireland and consequently it shows the UK without Northern Ireland. The UK is England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales.
2. It shows the UK as though it is part of the Schengen Area. It is not.
I wonder if some kind of organization, NGO, or company could essentially vouch for stateless people, almost like getting an insurance policy, whose function is to provide a placeholder form of citizenship of basically a landless state, until permanent citizenship or residency could be secured.
Having done some research on this topic, related to America specifically, I can easily say that Simon makes this sound 'just slightly more difficult' for Americans than other nations, when in fact, it is 'proverbial hell' bordering on impossible for most Americans to EVER renounce their citizenship. It requires a dozen forms, months of waiting, 4 background checks, a couple of 'fees' and a 'departure tax' (which is basically a percentage of your asset holdings), as well as the 'poker game' of not being able to get 'other nation citizenship' until you renounce, with the risk of renouncing and then being denied to the new host nation...in effect, all those who are ready to throw the doors open to 'no border immigration' should in fact be looking at the absolute PRISON they are already living in (that there is no hope of exiting) first! Even in exiting, America is NOT what it appears to be!
Sigh. I got a Scientology ad and a Wall Petition Trump/Pence ad on this video. I wonder wtf TH-cam is using to target ads...
Jim Robinson why you getting cult adds?
This is why I use AdBlock Plus, and why you should too.
Rip. I have premium lol
I got an ad for Nail Polish
Probably the CIA.
👍!👍! Good job & thanks for the KNOW(ledge)!
This video information is very interesting.
11:04 to resume the vid.
I know they need sponsors but save it for the end.
What about the opposite? Obtaining citizenship in every country.
Not possible. Many countries do not allow dual citizenship.
@@BuzzkillZone That's the whole purpose of "What if".
@@Zanelander and that was the answer to what if?
@@BuzzkillZone if its like that then what happens when every country allow dual citizenship?
@@syni8225 So if all countries allowed dual citizenship, how many people would have dual citizenship?
One topic that I'm surprised wasn't covered is how many countries do not allow citizens to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship. For example many South American and African countries do not allow renunciation or otherwise loss of citizenship at all.
I like @ 1:20 the document lists Ann Arbor, MI as the town, as it is my hometown. They misspelled Washtenaw (Weshtenaw as in the video) county though
minute 5.11 Schengen Area map incorrectly excludes Austria.
The US is trying to render a friend of mine, born in the US, stateless, disputing the validity of her Maine birth certificate, with no indication of what country they think she is from
Wow...
Proof?
www.seattleweekly.com/news/danni-askini-seeks-asylum-in-sweden/
Stevie Lantalia Metke What a complete nightmare that is. I just read the article.
@@Lantalia Wow! A truly astounding and horrifying article. What's being done to this poor woman is downright unconstitutional and...possibly evil.
0:23 Not in Sajaka you have to meet the king in person and write a 2 page essay on why you are leaving :)
How cool... That certificate is from a US citizen moving to my country. 💪🏼
*If that ever happens to me I would travel the world, evade the law, and become an urban legend.*
I feel more like you would be detained at the first border you tried to cross, then trapped in detention systems without trial for the rest of your life because there's nowhere else to put you and nowhere for you to be deported to. Sounds really boring.
"Urban legend" is a funny way to spell "hobo".
OH MY GOD, IT'S JASON BOURNE!!!!
Funny way of saying "free organ donor". I mean no IDs, no home, no job etc.
I am technically 'stateless'. I was born in shoddy circumstances and have been on my own for almost as long as I can recollect. Never known my parent(s) and at 15 have no documentation. Crossed many a border on multiple continents in my time.
I didn't even know you could renounce your citizenship without belonging to another country.
I used to think having a "Stateless" status was really bad until seeing certain things go on over the years to realize otherwise.
On the background image of Europe when you talked about the countries being in the Schengen Area the country of Romania was also highlighted, Romania however is not in Schengen.
Damn the US is savage. Never giving up my American citizenship
T. T I’m planning on giving up mine.
wait, this isn't vsauce michael
with the topic of legal issues arising when being part of two different countries, I am not certain on all of the facts but I have always wondered about the following case.
I live in Australia and its been said that while the Australian law requires express permission from citizens to access private information held by organizations (even when any government requests it), American law requires information to be given on government request regardless of the citizen's permission. In this case if an American company does business in Australia (in which case it must abide by the laws of both countries) and if the American government requests information of an Australian citizen who does not give permission then both options would be unlawful for one country or another.
I found you through Business Blaze so it's weird to see you so calm and... teacherly.
This reminded me of that girl from Britain who left to join ISIS. She's now stateless 😕
I had no idea there are so many people in this situation.
I am technically 'stateless'. I was born in shoddy circumstances and have been on my own for almost as long as I can recollect. Never known my parent(s) and at 15 have no documentation. Crossed many a border on multiple continents in my time.
Out of curiosity might I ask how old you are now
Cool
I do have a cousin who was born in another country but she has dual citizenship. Her parents were in the Army when she was born so far away from home
You got a like for that deft segway to your sponsor at the end.
I click on this video because I mistaken you as Michael from Vsauce but this is a decent video
Stateless is the way to go.
Functional programming ftw.
How about hooks?)
@@brucewayne_007 ayy lmao
@@bdnugget react?)
Canadians are subject to strict rules regarding renunciation of citizenship. As I recall, possession of another nationality is mandatry.
I use the term "nationality" because most countries do not define "citizenship".
Finally an advertisement for something I already use.
Update: Elon Musk is preparing an international land area for the stateless. The exact coordinates in Mars are sill to be determined.
Alejandro Sudiro Elon musk will be the president
Elon musk is a charlatan lol