Original linguists who studied linguistics whose wit has been mutilated by the present day academic education are usually not interested in language...they dissect and study loads of unimportant and boring things.
@@Zorro9129 yes they do and besides, people like simon who developed a comparably intellectual understanding of something without university credentials existed before the internet. just because 1 person is at the level of an academic standard without having studying in academia doesn't mean academic credentials are useless. there's a reason why academia is still the number 1 indicator of scientific or intellectual achievement
@@TomorrowWeLive every establishment is constantly advancing and modernising, even the Catholic Church. This is not new, I'm sure Henry viii would have looked like a crazy hippy to his grandfather
One of the advantages of the fact that QEII has lived so long, is that we can compare her accent from the 1950s with her accent from today, both of which are distinctly different.
@@susanorr8348 It could also be part of the aging process. My mother was born seven years before The Queen and had a similar accent. As she got older her voice changed and had less of the 'cut glass' timbre. Now in my sixties I've noticed my voice is starting to change.
The Queen's voice has changed so much over the years. There are recordings of her as a young child during the war, the clip used here is her first televised Christmas message in 1957, and she continues to sound ever more different as the years roll by.
I'm a polylinguist (I work as a translator in various European languages) and am a history buff (amateur - no formal studies). I find your channel educating and fascinating. Keep it up Simon.
That may be a modern public-school thing, to combine a demotic accent with aristocratic vocabulary: which is actually harder for an outsider to pull off.
"If there's such a thing as a monolingual Swedish speaker" LOL EDIT: I have no clue how it happened, but whatever this thread turned into, I didn't quite see coming...
@@allancoffee and SKATT means tax, whereas KAKA means cake. Which is very unfortunate because in most languages I know of, including Greek and Spanish, both words sound exactly like shit.
Hannah, I'm being dead serious here - I know those votive offerings that keep appearing on my bedside table are your doing. I don't know how you're getting into the house, but yesterday I could have sworn I heard someone trip and fall down the stairs at 5AM. Also, are you sleeping in my garden? There's a patch of really trampled grass that I had assumed was foxes, but it's unnervingly human-shaped and I keep finding loose socks scattered about. I've tried showing photos of you to the local cats. They run away as soon as they work out who it is. They're terrified of you.
Funny, I was disappointed by the 1996 film James and the Giant Beach. I was expecting a movie about Miami Beach, but instead it was about some guy living in a fruit
Sam - One would be, wouldn't they? The King's Peach would have come from Montreuil, an eastern suburb of Paris, where they were grown in special walled orchards. They put stencils on the large peaches while they were growing that produced an elaborate image, often a portrait, at maturity. Though it would have been the Queen's Peach at the time (because Victoria) or the Czar's Peach (because Russia). They were exported to those illustrious personnages' tables, and beyond, but it still wouldn't have made much of a movie. Maybe, quit while you're ahead with the talking dude - at least it was in English.
King George V had a wonderful accent. Not the upper class RP of his sons or Queen Elizabeth in the early days of her reign. His voice sounds like that of an elderly naval officer, so calm and precise.
If you have produced all of this content while not being a linguist, I shudder to think what you could produce if you were to become a linguist "officially."
I was thinking the exact same thing! I believe he said he was an archeologist! If he approaches that with the same passion I can't imagine the fascinating stuff in his brain. Could listen to you all day Simon!
Another high ranking contemporary of Victoria whose speech was recorded was Otto von Bismarck, there's a roughly one and a half minute recording of him reciting poetry in four languages, including part of the Marseillaise, and a short message to his son
I'm a "native RP speaker" as I was bought up in London in the 80s/90s, both my parents considered themselves thoroughly upper middle class and as far as I remember it, both sets of grandparents also spoke like this - which is wild, considering that genetically speaking, we're all descended from Irish and Syrian immigrants. Who is to say who ended up forcing it and who didn't, either way, I was brought up speaking RP (I recognised your "cut" immediately). Due to several factors, including moving around a lot as a young adult and probably ASD-related "wandering accent syndrome" I've picked up little pockets of friends' accents here and there and really relaxed my RP. I can resurrect it immediately in emergencies - it's amazingly useful for making reservations and or complaints if I end up somewhere fancy in London lol :D
@@lawnerddownunder3461 one of my best friends moved to Liverpool when she met her husband and while she didn't pick up the accent exactly, she picked up the cadence forevermore. I think it's quite charming! A little love letter in the way we speak from all the places we've enjoyed being.
I'm from the States. I remember 10 years ago taking a class trip to England and we stopped at Hampton Court. I was taken in by the history, and especially became fascinated with Henry VIII. I always wondered what he would have sounded like, and I appreciate you putting a voice to his picture, even if it is only guesswork ☺️ I back tracked a couple times to listen to that accent and let it sink in. Thank you for helping me solve a 10 year mystery in my mind, Simon! I love your channel
@Horatio Nelson yeah in America we kind of ignore him in favor for his daughter Elizabeth who was the monarch that the Roanoke colony was established under.
Trigs 911. Many years back there was a director of the Royal Shakespeare Company who knew a lot about dialects and their origins. He had tracked down the nearest living thing to the accent of Elizabethan times. Surprisingly it was the accent of the fishermen of Chesapeake Bay, because they had never moved out of the area after immigrating from England in the Tudor era and had never mingled outside their community. It was very hard to understand. He got several of them talking on a documentary that must still exist somewhere. BBC archives probably.
Edward VII spoke with a German accent apparently. Surprised there's no recordings of him, I can imagine him at Bucks Palace, drunk on whisky and merriment, hastily beckoning the sound recording guy to set up his equipment so he can bellow Jerusalem into eternity.
CHALLENGE: I read recently that James I/VI's native language was lowland Scots, but that he spoke fluent English, albeit with a lifelong Scottish accent. So I would like to hear: standard southern English c.1600; lowland Scots c.1600; a native Scots speaker speaking English with a Scottish accent c.1600. Please Simon! 🙏
The Queen used to be criticised for her way of speaking by anti-royalists: a famous example was Lord Altrincham. An outraged subject threatened to horsewhip him on the steps of his club.
It's not just her accent. The pitch of her voice is lower now but I think that's been a general change. Women in old films and other recordings sound like girls with their squeaky voices
The Queen will have been coached with her speech and delivery from childhood. Her speech is notably more measured and careful than her younger sister. And I do think her speech has changed significantly from when she was a young woman. Another woman from the same generation whose speech can be compared is Margaret Thatcher, the grocer's daughter from Grantham who was never destined to inherit anything except maybe her father's shop. I am fairly certain she had elocution lessons from older childhood as her speech as a young woman is un-natural, shrill and artificial. Listen to the way she voices 'O', a very rounded 'O' from the front of her mouth. Somebody from the East Midlands normally pronounces 'O' from the middle of the mouth. The tone of her speech did noticeably reduce in pitch during her 'reign' as prime minister. She was however never completely able to distance herself from her origins. Dennis Skinner, another East Midlander, was able to see through it, provoke her and catch her out several times. On occasion she lapsed unforced into native East Midlands, once labelling Denis Healey as 'frit' (frightened).
Cathi Shaner but this is all women previously versus all women now, at least in the U.K. I never spoke with as a high a pitch as the Queen or previous film stars did back in the day
He sees to have enormous dreamy eyes. Lol I sometimes think England is the same people just rebreeding themselves. I used to see in crowd photos who looked a lot like George VI.
there are some southern u.s. accents that still rhyme "alone" and "gone" (i am from texas and hear it here, as well as in tennessee where i have family), though this pronunciation would be seen as a bit extreme to the majority of speakers. i wish i knew how to represent vowels in IPA to be more clear, but the "o" in "gone" would be a long vowel to match "alone".
That’s because Eastern Standard (the actual name of the accent used at the time) is originally a late 19th century imitation of RP by US East Coast aristocrats. Some minor differences crept into it, and then this American near-RP got phonetically codified by Margaret McLean in the 1920s and later used in Classic Hollywood.
@@joonaa2751 Margaret McLean the women's rights advocate? Also can you recommend the best way to learn some form of RP? Maybe there's a huge hi-res library of someone's recording who speaks it remarkably well. Even though I'm Russian I don't know where did that Soviet translator learn English that well - th-cam.com/video/MzzBr65ZFwM/w-d-xo.html
@@anderander5662 Not to me, but I learnt from it when i was young, by modelling my own speech on those old flims and on records of Royal Shakespeare Company actors.
Yes, Roosevelt spoke with an eastern-US upper crust accent which sounds quite odd to modern American ears. His pronunciation of "war" as "waw" was often commented on even at that time. That sound is, I think, nearly extinct, but my grandfather's second wife spoke that way and my grandfather and grandmother both had some of it. It doubtless had genuine native origins, like British RP, but I suspect that like RP it was encouraged in the colleges and prep schools wealthy people's children attended in those days.
Simon, your videos are utterly fascinating and fantastic. I was amused at the end when you said."I sawr" which I recognize as an English UK regional pronunciation but also an be heard in the US in Massachusetts even today.
I agree with you that there HAS BEEN a natural RP. We've all known older people who spoke that way without making a deliberate effort or using it as an affectation. I've know people who speak RP as a their form of English as a second language.
@@NieceyWeesey No problem! The only reason I can tell the difference is because I'm a New Zealander. The difference in accent isnt huge, kind of like the difference between US and Canadian accents.
It's interesting, I understood George V's utterance as "wireless" immediately. I wonder if it's because I watched a reasonable number of movies from the 1930s and 1940s when I was a kid (I wasn't a kid in the 1930s or 1940s, I just watched a lot of very old movies), and his accent reminds me of old English movies where the actors are portraying nobility and the like.
Of the current crop of 'royals,' the accent of QE2 has changed quite significantly during her reign (see Times video a few days ago) whereas that of Prince Charles the least. In "Does Accent Matter: The Pygmalion Factor," the author, John Honey refers to Charles pronouncing ' house' something like 'hice.' William and Harry don't have royal accents as such probably because Diana insisted they went to regular schools, albeit private, from an early age. Due to peer pressure more than any other factor, people speak the way they spoke growing up in the school environment.
Excellent video. The notable word for me in Queen Elizabeth's speech is 'often'. A sort of 'or-fen', which strangely has a very similar pronunciation in older cockney!
Have you been able to locate the BBC recording of George V's cousin, Kaiser Wilhem II, speaking. His English was perfect, as you would expect, and the accent and intonation resembled that of King George.
Brilliant video! Incredible that nobody has done this before. Simon, you are a real marvel on TH-cam in which many take great pleasure to listen to and be informed by.
Did John Hurt ever get to play Edward on stage in his lifetime? Their voices are uncannily similar. And Colin Firth in The King's Speech really did an amazing job of recreating George VI's voice.
You can't split an infinitive in Latin and most other languages I know of, because it's one word. Why do you suppose English decided an infinitive should be two words?
I think it's marvellous that you can split infinitives in English. It gives it a degree of flexibility that it wouldn't otherwise have, and "To boldly go" sounds a lot stronger than "To go boldly" which frankly sounds lame.
I think that certainly there are people who have much much "posher" accents that the Monarchs incl. the present Queen. MP Jacob Rees Mogg comes to mind, or an English Orthodox schollar Kallistos Ware comes to mind.
@@charliecussans7638 Most young people from Somerset, Bristol or the West Country sound like they're from London. The only people who sound like "farmers" are their grandads. 😂 Perhaps regional accents are fading.
@@charliecussans7638 Rees-Mogg isn't from Somerset. Regional accents are fading, but I don't think young Somerset people sound like they're from London. Some Bristolians speak a Westcountry tinged MLE, but in general accents tend towards RP. Think Simon Pegg / Bill Bailey.
once in my college class there was a guy from a british carribean island who spoke completely normally (for californian standards) but when he went up to do a oral presentation his accent completely changed to a british/RP accent and he didnt realize anything of it when he came back to sit next to me when he was done. it was so bizarre!!
I'm a linguist (specialized in latin), and sociolects is really a hard topic when it comes to languages/dialects that aren't spoken anymore. There are many things that can influence a particular idiolect (the language spoken by one person). That also includes generational identification: speaking in a different manner than older or younger people, or on the contrary trying to speak more like older or younger people).
In the English of the 18th century "tea" was pronounced "say" and "tay". Alexander Pope rhymed "tea" with "obey" which seems to have had its modern pronunciation, and Irish English still pronounces "tea" that way, as an Irishman might request "a cup of tay".
Irish, Scots, and French all pronounce it with the ‘ay’ sound. This apparently was the sound that came from the region in China where NW Europe first imported tea from. The pronunciation shifted in England to an ‘ee’ sound. Most of China actually called the drink something similar to chai, and so much of the non-English/French world has a name based on that version.
@@blacksmith67 can confirm in modern Hokkien the word for tea (茶/tê) is still pronounced like 'tay', at least in Taiwan. Tea was sourced from Amoy by the Dutch East India company, which spoken Hokkien.
Stumbled onto this, was enjoying it enough to have already subscribed but then I saw "Spoiler Alert" over Prince Charles and you've absolutely won me over! Really well explained, you've got a knack for it that's for sure.
Peter Trudgill the wellknown British sociolinguist has, I believe, a paper examining Elizabeth’s Christmas messages over the years, noting the increasing occurrence of various subtle nonRP features. He also an interesting paper on the dialect affiliations of British rock & roll singers, noting their very American early stuff shifting to native as they became established and confident. My own experience with speakers has been of the sort, “l don’t really speak RP but I know someone who does.” A colleague once confessed that she was disoriented when she came to the US for grad school, because she couldn’t tell people’s class from their accent.
Actually, it was Jonathan Harrington, Sallyanne Palethorpe, and Catherine Watson, not Peter Trudgill, who did the analysis of QEII's Christmas messages over the years.
Geurge V accent doesn't sound affected like modern RP speakers, Queen Elizabeth definately sounds nore modern compared to her grandfather. Compare Winston Churchill to Boris Johnson to hear how RP has changed since Victorian times.
Great video, great topic. I'm quite interested in historically informed performance of early music and an understanding of linguistics is essential to perform pre-1700 vocal music. Still trying to work out a more accurate pronunciation of 'Pastyme with good companye.'
Found this channel when I came across the Anglo Saxon "interview"... (Currently taking a course on OE linguistics, now one of my favourite courses along with ME literature). I'm a 7th year student of English & German philology and I'm very impressed about all the work you've put into making such detailed and informative content. Thanks a lot for keeping it going and looking forward to seeing your future videos!
You appear to have overlooked the Queen saying 'my own family 'orftern' gather round'. From the days when it was still a thing for a select few of the good and great to ride the course at Epsom with the royals before the racing started, a client of mine recalled the instructions of H.M. Equerry before setting off... 'Should one at any point find oneself ahead of Her Majesty, one must fall orf immediately' - this being apparently an 'epsolute requirement'.
I've noticed that, and also heard the "fall orf" story. I wonder if it's a posh way of saying "fall back"? If you had to ask for a translation, I guess you weren't posh enough to be invited to ride with the Queen anyway.
Excellent and interesting video! Thinking reconstructions of old accents, I've tried several times, unsuccessfully to find one of the original Cornish accent . There must have been a time, way before any actual recording ability , when the Cornish had some kind of a Welsh sounding accent when they first began speaking English. Their accent slowly evolved into the West Country accent we can hear today. BTW, I could hear this spread of a West Country accent into coastal South Wales, especially in the younger people of Newport , Cardiff etc, when I returned there in 2008 after an absence of almost 30 years,
American me here. In my experience the British tend to describe RP speech from a class and societal point of view; the social ladder winnowing that engenders resentments of long standing. It's true enough. There's no getting around it but to me RP speech played a fascinating role in making English today's lingua Franca. People right round the world can understand RP much more easily than other dialects especially if there is competing ambient noise, the speaker is at a distance, not visible, etc. Early radio broadcasts sounded quite distant and had interference but RP could be understood because it was clear. English is a magnificent instrument.
When I was growing up in East Detroit, people pronounced phantom "phanthom." I was surprised when I read it. That died out while I was in my 'twenties.
Amazing! I knew that you Brits have many broadly regional accents ( a few of which are all but unintelligible to this old Americans ears!) But it never occurred to me that your Monarchs might have regional accents, but they clearly did! Most Americans are only broadly aware of the BBC accent. When we hear someone like Richard Hammond, regional accents become noticeable. Thank You for this! As someone who has always been keenly aware of U.S regional accents ( I had working class South Baltimore Grandparents, a Great Uncle from Boston, his Wife spent many years on Maryland’s Eastern Shore, and my other Grandfather was from near Lancaster Pennsylvania. All of these people had distinct accents of their time and place.
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Simon: "I'm not a linguist"
Also Simon: provides some of the best linguistics content on youtube
All I’m saying is that if I knew what he knew about linguistics, I would say fuck it and call myself a linguist
Original linguists who studied linguistics whose wit has been mutilated by the present day academic education are usually not interested in language...they dissect and study loads of unimportant and boring things.
Proof that credentials mean nothing in the age of the internet.
Supa Hot Fire: "im not a rapper"
@@Zorro9129 yes they do and besides, people like simon who developed a comparably intellectual understanding of something without university credentials existed before the internet. just because 1 person is at the level of an academic standard without having studying in academia doesn't mean academic credentials are useless. there's a reason why academia is still the number 1 indicator of scientific or intellectual achievement
Prince William called me "mate" when I met him, times have changed.
That'll be his army background speaking
And not for the better
@@TomorrowWeLive incorrect
@@TomorrowWeLive every establishment is constantly advancing and modernising, even the Catholic Church. This is not new, I'm sure Henry viii would have looked like a crazy hippy to his grandfather
Terribly sad times 😔
One of the advantages of the fact that QEII has lived so long, is that we can compare her accent from the 1950s with her accent from today, both of which are distinctly different.
Some have said she had elocution lessons to alter her speech patterns.
@@susanorr8348 It could also be part of the aging process. My mother was born seven years before The Queen and had a similar accent. As she got older her voice changed and had less of the 'cut glass' timbre. Now in my sixties I've noticed my voice is starting to change.
@@mscott3918 Good. You're not so posh and stuck up!
@@MissionHomeowner I wouldn't say that. I have my moments. I used to sound like Prince Charles, but now maybe more like George VI.
As a slav your user name is confusing
The Queen's voice has changed so much over the years. There are recordings of her as a young child during the war, the clip used here is her first televised Christmas message in 1957, and she continues to sound ever more different as the years roll by.
Not anymore!
@@mrsaeed3267 😩
@@mrsaeed3267 Lol.
She wasn't a young child during the war, she was born in 1926, she just had a young voice at that stage.
now you can only hear rattling bones
I'm a polylinguist (I work as a translator in various European languages) and am a history buff (amateur - no formal studies). I find your channel educating and fascinating. Keep it up Simon.
Thank you, that's really uplifting to hear :)
Eh, "polylinguist" isn't a thing mate, "linguist" means language researcher, not a translator. You might be a polyglot tho
Polylinguist is a synonym of polyglot.
@@jiros00 huh, what a completely redundant synonym. I stand corrected. Well played.
I have some friends who are poly, but they only really know English.
George V’s voice is really soothing.
As a Texan, this entire video is incredibly interesting and also I have no idea what the hell is happening.
The past is back to rock us , hail the king...
Ah, you've caught the bug! Join the club and enjoy the next instalments along with the rest of us.
I am English and neither do I! But still really interesting.
Hooo shit fellow Texan
Fellow Texan hy hy
The most glaring change is between Prince Charles and his sons. William and Harry sound even less RP than some middle-class Englishmen.
Diana and Fergie tried to talk like chavs.
@@lisaschuster9187 bollocks
Probably because they're young
That may be a modern public-school thing, to combine a demotic accent with aristocratic vocabulary: which is actually harder for an outsider to pull off.
Perhaps because both of them would have had teachers and professors who spoke in other accents throughout their educations.
"If there's such a thing as a monolingual Swedish speaker" LOL
EDIT: I have no clue how it happened, but whatever this thread turned into, I didn't quite see coming...
"Katt" is swedish for "cat" ...
gotem
@@allancoffee and SKATT means tax, whereas KAKA means cake. Which is very unfortunate because in most languages I know of, including Greek and Spanish, both words sound exactly like shit.
@@allancoffee
Additionally:
Danish: Kat
Afrikaans: Kat
Dutch: Kat
Irish: Cat
Norwegian: Katt
etc.
@@Hwyadylaw Make no mistake, however. Because KÅT means horny (i.e. sexually aroused) in Swedish.
Ur the only king I’m interested in xx
Hannah, I'm being dead serious here - I know those votive offerings that keep appearing on my bedside table are your doing. I don't know how you're getting into the house, but yesterday I could have sworn I heard someone trip and fall down the stairs at 5AM. Also, are you sleeping in my garden? There's a patch of really trampled grass that I had assumed was foxes, but it's unnervingly human-shaped and I keep finding loose socks scattered about. I've tried showing photos of you to the local cats. They run away as soon as they work out who it is. They're terrified of you.
LOL
@@simonroper9218 Backstory please. Fraidy cats always perk up my ears.
😂😂😂 someone needs a house alarm
@@Nate-uf4xk impossible. I'm pretty sure this has to do with Bulgakov's Master and Margarita.
I was very disappointed by the 2009 film The King's Peach. I expected it to be about a peach. It was just some dude learning to talk.
So you were excited to see a film about a royal peach? Weird!
Funny, I was disappointed by the 1996 film James and the Giant Beach. I was expecting a movie about Miami Beach, but instead it was about some guy living in a fruit
@@francesgardner7070 ah, you just beat me to it. I was looking forward to hearing James's giant speech
HaHaHa
Sam - One would be, wouldn't they? The King's Peach would have come from Montreuil, an eastern suburb of Paris, where they were grown in special walled orchards. They put stencils on the large peaches while they were growing that produced an elaborate image, often a portrait, at maturity. Though it would have been the Queen's Peach at the time (because Victoria) or the Czar's Peach (because Russia). They were exported to those illustrious personnages' tables, and beyond, but it still wouldn't have made much of a movie. Maybe, quit while you're ahead with the talking dude - at least it was in English.
King George V had a wonderful accent. Not the upper class RP of his sons or Queen Elizabeth in the early days of her reign. His voice sounds like that of an elderly naval officer, so calm and precise.
George V has the most pleasant accent to my ear. Posh but without the awful vowels of Elizabeth.
If you have produced all of this content while not being a linguist, I shudder to think what you could produce if you were to become a linguist "officially."
I was thinking the exact same thing! I believe he said he was an archeologist! If he approaches that with the same passion I can't imagine the fascinating stuff in his brain. Could listen to you all day Simon!
You’re not gonna comment on Elizabeth’s pronunciation of “often”? Great video btw
Awwften
Orphan
High Ground Productions depends on the accent ;)
High Ground Productions
I ask you, have you ever known what it is to be an orphan?
Some speakers of older RP had a CLOTH-THOUGHT merger rather than the now standard CLOTH-LOT one
Another high ranking contemporary of Victoria whose speech was recorded was Otto von Bismarck, there's a roughly one and a half minute recording of him reciting poetry in four languages, including part of the Marseillaise, and a short message to his son
It's not surprising but quite funny, hearing such a figure as Bismarck and his Märkisch accent (Sachsen-Anhalt, Brandenburg).
Boy, would I like to hear Bismarck! Mann, wenn ich nur Bismarck hoeren koennte!
I'm a "native RP speaker" as I was bought up in London in the 80s/90s, both my parents considered themselves thoroughly upper middle class and as far as I remember it, both sets of grandparents also spoke like this - which is wild, considering that genetically speaking, we're all descended from Irish and Syrian immigrants. Who is to say who ended up forcing it and who didn't, either way, I was brought up speaking RP (I recognised your "cut" immediately). Due to several factors, including moving around a lot as a young adult and probably ASD-related "wandering accent syndrome" I've picked up little pockets of friends' accents here and there and really relaxed my RP. I can resurrect it immediately in emergencies - it's amazingly useful for making reservations and or complaints if I end up somewhere fancy in London lol :D
"Wandering Accent Syndrome" 😂 I'm the same.
@@lawnerddownunder3461 one of my best friends moved to Liverpool when she met her husband and while she didn't pick up the accent exactly, she picked up the cadence forevermore. I think it's quite charming! A little love letter in the way we speak from all the places we've enjoyed being.
Haha, love your posting.
As an American, the idea that you could just put on a specific accent and be taken to be upper class is bizarre.
Did you grow up with Arabic spoken around you?
I'm from the States. I remember 10 years ago taking a class trip to England and we stopped at Hampton Court. I was taken in by the history, and especially became fascinated with Henry VIII. I always wondered what he would have sounded like, and I appreciate you putting a voice to his picture, even if it is only guesswork ☺️ I back tracked a couple times to listen to that accent and let it sink in. Thank you for helping me solve a 10 year mystery in my mind, Simon! I love your channel
Henry VIII sounded like some kind of northerner. I was appalled.
@Horatio Nelson yeah in America we kind of ignore him in favor for his daughter Elizabeth who was the monarch that the Roanoke colony was established under.
Trigs 911. Many years back there was a director of the Royal Shakespeare Company who knew a lot about dialects and their origins. He had tracked down the nearest living thing to the accent of Elizabethan times. Surprisingly it was the accent of the fishermen of Chesapeake Bay, because they had never moved out of the area after immigrating from England in the Tudor era and had never mingled outside their community. It was very hard to understand. He got several of them talking on a documentary that must still exist somewhere. BBC archives probably.
@@maureendavidson4635 I wonder if David Crystal was a part of that? He knows a lot about how Shakespeare would have sounded
Edward VII spoke with a German accent apparently. Surprised there's no recordings of him, I can imagine him at Bucks Palace, drunk on whisky and merriment, hastily beckoning the sound recording guy to set up his equipment so he can bellow Jerusalem into eternity.
"If there is such a thing as a monolingual Swedish speaker" made this multilingual Swede chuckle.
CHALLENGE: I read recently that James I/VI's native language was lowland Scots, but that he spoke fluent English, albeit with a lifelong Scottish accent. So I would like to hear: standard southern English c.1600; lowland Scots c.1600; a native Scots speaker speaking English with a Scottish accent c.1600. Please Simon! 🙏
JAMES VI looked like an old French teacher of mine, also called James.
Queen Elizabeth II reminds me of that one skit from Pirates of Penzance where the word Often and Orphan are 'misheard'
Queen Elizabeth II.. Rest In Peace your majesty ❤
Mr Rees-Moggs accent is due to voluntary rectal cephalization
Would have been interesting to compare young ER2 with her current voice -- see how her accent has changed over her reign.
The Queen used to be criticised for her way of speaking by anti-royalists: a famous example was Lord Altrincham. An outraged subject threatened to horsewhip him on the steps of his club.
It's not just her accent. The pitch of her voice is lower now but I think that's been a general change. Women in old films and other recordings sound like girls with their squeaky voices
Katrina Campbell it’s also one of the many gifts of menopause.
The Queen will have been coached with her speech and delivery from childhood. Her speech is notably more measured and careful than her younger sister. And I do think her speech has changed significantly from when she was a young woman.
Another woman from the same generation whose speech can be compared is Margaret Thatcher, the grocer's daughter from Grantham who was never destined to inherit anything except maybe her father's shop. I am fairly certain she had elocution lessons from older childhood as her speech as a young woman is un-natural, shrill and artificial. Listen to the way she voices 'O', a very rounded 'O' from the front of her mouth. Somebody from the East Midlands normally pronounces 'O' from the middle of the mouth. The tone of her speech did noticeably reduce in pitch during her 'reign' as prime minister. She was however never completely able to distance herself from her origins. Dennis Skinner, another East Midlander, was able to see through it, provoke her and catch her out several times. On occasion she lapsed unforced into native East Midlands, once labelling Denis Healey as 'frit' (frightened).
Cathi Shaner but this is all women previously versus all women now, at least in the U.K. I never spoke with as a high a pitch as the Queen or previous film stars did back in the day
King George VI looked startling like a young Tim Curry.
He sees to have enormous dreamy eyes.
Lol I sometimes think England is the same people just rebreeding themselves. I used to see in crowd photos who looked a lot like George VI.
@@lizh1988 a nation comprised of six vampires who take turns playing characters lol
thx for the spoiler alert, really didnt want to miss the rest of the show.
One - if not the - most interesting videos I've ever seen on TH-cam. Your technical knowledge is extraordinary.
Thank you! There'll be some mistakes, but I'm glad you found value in it :)
The Queen's speech has shifted from her first to her latest recording...
Age does that. My mother was born 7 years before The Queen and until she started aging sounded very much like her.
there are some southern u.s. accents that still rhyme "alone" and "gone" (i am from texas and hear it here, as well as in tennessee where i have family), though this pronunciation would be seen as a bit extreme to the majority of speakers. i wish i knew how to represent vowels in IPA to be more clear, but the "o" in "gone" would be a long vowel to match "alone".
Ol' hank said it that way. (Hank Sr., not his idiot son)
A man from the 1600s phonetically transcribed his speech!? Omg!! I can't wait to hear it. :)
imagine when it turns out that they didn't merely write S as F, but pronounced it so as well.
fuffering fuckatash!
What do you think about Henry VIIIs portrayal as a cockney by Harry Winston years ago ?
He sounds more Irish than English
@@darrang7483 Not my fault that Irish English is so conservative and Southern RP so innovative.
The work done on the accent of Bill the Butcher from Gangs of New York was based on phonetic writing samples, if I understand it right.
The actor who played Edward VIII in the series Crown did a great job.. so close!
To me, some of the older ones remind me of the Mid-Atlantic accent that Hollywood used to use in the first half of the 20th century.
That’s because Eastern Standard (the actual name of the accent used at the time) is originally a late 19th century imitation of RP by US East Coast aristocrats. Some minor differences crept into it, and then this American near-RP got phonetically codified by Margaret McLean in the 1920s and later used in Classic Hollywood.
@@joonaa2751 Margaret McLean the women's rights advocate? Also can you recommend the best way to learn some form of RP? Maybe there's a huge hi-res library of someone's recording who speaks it remarkably well. Even though I'm Russian I don't know where did that Soviet translator learn English that well - th-cam.com/video/MzzBr65ZFwM/w-d-xo.html
Sounds very stilted and forced today..
@@CallOfCutie69 I believe it might be a different McLean, actually.
@@anderander5662 Not to me, but I learnt from it when i was young, by modelling my own speech on those old flims and on records of Royal Shakespeare Company actors.
King George V reminds me of the movie stars from the 40's and also listening to President Roosevelt during WW2.
Yes, Roosevelt spoke with an eastern-US upper crust accent which sounds quite odd to modern American ears. His pronunciation of "war" as "waw" was often commented on even at that time. That sound is, I think, nearly extinct, but my grandfather's second wife spoke that way and my grandfather and grandmother both had some of it. It doubtless had genuine native origins, like British RP, but I suspect that like RP it was encouraged in the colleges and prep schools wealthy people's children attended in those days.
Simon, your videos are utterly fascinating and fantastic. I was amused at the end when you said."I sawr" which I recognize as an English UK regional pronunciation but also an be heard in the US in Massachusetts even today.
I agree with you that there HAS BEEN a natural RP. We've all known older people who spoke that way without making a deliberate effort or using it as an affectation. I've know people who speak RP as a their form of English as a second language.
That link you posted to hear Robert Robinson’s pronunciation of Shakespeare’s sonnet is well worth the jump.
Sounds Irish to me, fascinating
Definitely. I just had a look, absolutely fascinating.
Sounds like an Irish person speaking Danish or something lol
@@antonantolick5688 doesn't sound Irish at all or Danish wtf? Have you ever heard a south-western English accent?
@@username-mf7zx It's almost as if there have been exchanges of many people between Ireland and the SW England.
Fascinating videos, thank you for making them!
Are u from England ?
No she's from Australia I think. Btw love your videos :)
@@NieceyWeesey shes from new zealand!
@@xiaokodama Sorry! I always mix up Oz and Kiwi accents
@@NieceyWeesey No problem! The only reason I can tell the difference is because I'm a New Zealander.
The difference in accent isnt huge, kind of like the difference between US and Canadian accents.
This is the excellent niche content I didn’t know I needed. As a linguistics enthusiast myself, I’m very glad to have stumbled upon your content.
The way her Maj says often is the most remarkable thing here. Aw-fen.
It's interesting, I understood George V's utterance as "wireless" immediately. I wonder if it's because I watched a reasonable number of movies from the 1930s and 1940s when I was a kid (I wasn't a kid in the 1930s or 1940s, I just watched a lot of very old movies), and his accent reminds me of old English movies where the actors are portraying nobility and the like.
Of the current crop of 'royals,' the accent of QE2 has changed quite significantly during her reign (see Times video a few days ago) whereas that of Prince Charles the least. In "Does Accent Matter: The Pygmalion Factor," the author, John Honey refers to Charles pronouncing ' house' something like 'hice.' William and Harry don't have royal accents as such probably because Diana insisted they went to regular schools, albeit private, from an early age. Due to peer pressure more than any other factor, people speak the way they spoke growing up in the school environment.
William and Harry both sound posh. They are not even Estuary.
Your videos are absolute gold mate, thanks a lot
Your videos are always very interesting. Those of us who are keen on linguistic history are grateful for them.
I love they way you explain things. You do it in a way that even a person less experienced with linguistics could understand. Thank you.
Excellent video. The notable word for me in Queen Elizabeth's speech is 'often'. A sort of 'or-fen', which strangely has a very similar pronunciation in older cockney!
Have you been able to locate the BBC recording of George V's cousin, Kaiser Wilhem II, speaking. His English was perfect, as you would expect, and the accent and intonation resembled that of King George.
The quality of the recording of George V is remarkably high quality for the time it was recorded.
Brilliant video! Incredible that nobody has done this before. Simon, you are a real marvel on TH-cam in which many take great pleasure to listen to and be informed by.
Did John Hurt ever get to play Edward on stage in his lifetime? Their voices are uncannily similar. And Colin Firth in The King's Speech really did an amazing job of recreating George VI's voice.
Yes. Not putting a preposition at the end of a sentence comes from Latin, same with that idea of never splitting at infinitive.
*shakes fist*
All thanks to a scholar who tried to force English into the Latin grammar mold.
You can't split an infinitive in Latin and most other languages I know of, because it's one word. Why do you suppose English decided an infinitive should be two words?
@@Cadwaladr phrasal verbs, i supose...
I think it's marvellous that you can split infinitives in English. It gives it a degree of flexibility that it wouldn't otherwise have, and "To boldly go" sounds a lot stronger than "To go boldly" which frankly sounds lame.
I've been looking forward to this video all week!
Stumbled across your page and think it is fantastic, so interesting, thank you
Hi! Native french speaker here. I love the amount of effort you put in your videos! Very clear and instructive. Thanks for that!
Thank you :)
I can speak words from 5 words
@@simonroper9218 to you
I think that certainly there are people who have much much "posher" accents that the Monarchs incl. the present Queen. MP Jacob Rees Mogg comes to mind, or an English Orthodox schollar Kallistos Ware comes to mind.
Don’t forget Henry Blofield
Of course Mogg is putting it on- people from Somerset really don't sound like he does.
@@charliecussans7638 Most young people from Somerset, Bristol or the West Country sound like they're from London. The only people who sound like "farmers" are their grandads. 😂 Perhaps regional accents are fading.
@@charliecussans7638 Maybe that's because he was born in London. He is only MP for East Somerset, he isn't a local. Like most MPs.
@@charliecussans7638 Rees-Mogg isn't from Somerset. Regional accents are fading, but I don't think young Somerset people sound like they're from London. Some Bristolians speak a Westcountry tinged MLE, but in general accents tend towards RP. Think Simon Pegg / Bill Bailey.
Ah, one of the most fascinating aspects of the English Phonology! Well done, sir; videos like this one are a real treat.
Simon, I find your videos so interesting. Thank you so much for posting
once in my college class there was a guy from a british carribean island who spoke completely normally (for californian standards) but when he went up to do a oral presentation his accent completely changed to a british/RP accent and he didnt realize anything of it when he came back to sit next to me when he was done. it was so bizarre!!
When I give a public talk, certain aspects of my accent begin to comw out... it'a very odd.
Deep stuff dude. Respect. A thorough job.
I randomly clicked on this video as it appeared as a recommend...and holy sh!t, I was not expecting your voice to boom into my ears. 😳
I am totally in awe of what you are doing x
I'm a linguist (specialized in latin), and sociolects is really a hard topic when it comes to languages/dialects that aren't spoken anymore. There are many things that can influence a particular idiolect (the language spoken by one person). That also includes generational identification: speaking in a different manner than older or younger people, or on the contrary trying to speak more like older or younger people).
Am I the only devoted Polish fan with no obvious reason to follow but Simon's passion itself?
I'm a quarter Polish but mostly British, but I agree his passion is very lovable
I am all for Simon's passion :)
Eventually he will cover European groups perhaps but either way still cool, im a Latvian fan enjoying this all too
Maybe Polish, but I'm Bosnian lol
@@artinaam You're here because you're gay.
Amazing analysis Simon. Very interesting. Thank you.
You're so passionate and knowledgeable.. your content is fantastic 🙌🙌🙌
In the English of the 18th century "tea" was pronounced "say" and "tay". Alexander Pope rhymed "tea" with "obey" which seems to have had its modern pronunciation, and Irish English still pronounces "tea" that way, as an Irishman might request "a cup of tay".
Irish, Scots, and French all pronounce it with the ‘ay’ sound. This apparently was the sound that came from the region in China where NW Europe first imported tea from. The pronunciation shifted in England to an ‘ee’ sound.
Most of China actually called the drink something similar to chai, and so much of the non-English/French world has a name based on that version.
Same for Low Saxon, it’s pronounced like tay here, too.
Set dat water up, wy drinket tey!
(Put the water on, we‘ll have tea)
@@blacksmith67 The only place in Scotland I've heard it pronounced "tay" is Shetland.
postscript67 I will defer to you and stand corrected.
@@blacksmith67 can confirm in modern Hokkien the word for tea (茶/tê) is still pronounced like 'tay', at least in Taiwan. Tea was sourced from Amoy by the Dutch East India company, which spoken Hokkien.
Stumbled onto this, was enjoying it enough to have already subscribed but then I saw "Spoiler Alert" over Prince Charles and you've absolutely won me over! Really well explained, you've got a knack for it that's for sure.
Thank you! :)
Wonderful. Thank you, Simon.
Peter Trudgill the wellknown British sociolinguist has, I believe, a paper examining Elizabeth’s Christmas messages over the years, noting the increasing occurrence of various subtle nonRP features. He also an interesting paper on the dialect affiliations of British rock & roll singers, noting their very American early stuff shifting to native as they became established and confident.
My own experience with speakers has been of the sort, “l don’t really speak RP but I know someone who does.” A colleague once confessed that she was disoriented when she came to the US for grad school, because she couldn’t tell people’s class from their accent.
Actually, it was Jonathan Harrington, Sallyanne Palethorpe, and Catherine Watson, not Peter Trudgill, who did the analysis of QEII's Christmas messages over the years.
Geurge V accent doesn't sound affected like modern RP speakers, Queen Elizabeth definately sounds nore modern compared to her grandfather. Compare Winston Churchill to Boris Johnson to hear how RP has changed since Victorian times.
Alexander (alias Boris) Johnson sounds like a prick.
This is great stuff, I have always been interested in accents, dialects, speech patterns etcetera.
This is absolutely phenomenal, such a great account.
Hi Simon. Great piece. I too am curious about the Queens "often". And also the word Tuesday. Thanks!
Great video, great topic. I'm quite interested in historically informed performance of early music and an understanding of linguistics is essential to perform pre-1700 vocal music. Still trying to work out a more accurate pronunciation of 'Pastyme with good companye.'
Found this channel when I came across the Anglo Saxon "interview"... (Currently taking a course on OE linguistics, now one of my favourite courses along with ME literature). I'm a 7th year student of English & German philology and I'm very impressed about all the work you've put into making such detailed and informative content. Thanks a lot for keeping it going and looking forward to seeing your future videos!
I absolutely love this video!! I’m going to research this topic a lot more. This makes me excited to get into linguistics research someday
You are crazy! I love your channel!!!!!!
You appear to have overlooked the Queen saying 'my own family 'orftern' gather round'. From the days when it was still a thing for a select few of the good and great to ride the course at Epsom with the royals before the racing started, a client of mine recalled the instructions of H.M. Equerry before setting off... 'Should one at any point find oneself ahead of Her Majesty, one must fall orf immediately' - this being apparently an 'epsolute requirement'.
Sounds rather like the days when sex was what the coal was delivered in around Mayfair and Belgravia.
I've noticed that, and also heard the "fall orf" story. I wonder if it's a posh way of saying "fall back"? If you had to ask for a translation, I guess you weren't posh enough to be invited to ride with the Queen anyway.
Excellent and interesting video! Thinking reconstructions of old accents, I've tried several times, unsuccessfully to find one of the original Cornish accent . There must have been a time, way before any actual recording ability , when the Cornish had some kind of a Welsh sounding accent when they first began speaking English. Their accent slowly evolved into the West Country accent we can hear today.
BTW, I could hear this spread of a West Country accent into coastal South Wales, especially in the younger people of Newport , Cardiff etc, when I returned there in 2008 after an absence of almost 30 years,
I love the West Country accent . And my second favourite is the Scottish borders . My spelling varies from OED and Websters.
Brilliant! Well done. Entertaining and very enlightening.
You are a smart guy. I like your videos very much. Thank you.
Thank you, Simon. I don't understand everything that you discuss, but I still very much enjoy your videos.
Queen Elizabeth II has definitely changed in her 68 years on the throne.
wonderfully informative as always, thank you Simon
This was a very good article. Thank you Simon.
American me here. In my experience the British tend to describe RP speech from a class and societal point of view; the social ladder winnowing that engenders resentments of long standing. It's true enough. There's no getting around it but to me RP speech played a fascinating role in making English today's lingua Franca. People right round the world can understand RP much more easily than other dialects especially if there is competing ambient noise, the speaker is at a distance, not visible, etc. Early radio broadcasts sounded quite distant and had interference but RP could be understood because it was clear. English is a magnificent instrument.
Remarkable recordings! :D
A fascinating presentation...thank you.
I went ahead and hit LIKE before I even listened to it...I knew it would be great and informative.
So did I.
An interesting comparison would've been Early QE II (circa 1955) and more recent (say 2005). The change in 50 years would likely be illuminating.
When I was growing up in East Detroit, people pronounced phantom "phanthom." I was surprised when I read it. That died out while I was in my 'twenties.
Phanthom reminds me of Flying Rhino Jr. High. One of the characters in that show pronounces it like that.
Amazing! I knew that you Brits have many broadly regional accents ( a few of which are all but unintelligible to this old Americans ears!) But it never occurred to me that your Monarchs might have regional accents, but they clearly did! Most Americans are only broadly aware of the BBC accent. When we hear someone like Richard Hammond, regional accents become noticeable. Thank You for this! As someone who has always been keenly aware of U.S regional accents ( I had working class South Baltimore Grandparents, a Great Uncle from Boston, his Wife spent many years on Maryland’s Eastern Shore, and my other Grandfather was from near Lancaster Pennsylvania. All of these people had distinct accents of their time and place.
Excellent work, very interesting.
Holy moly look at those sideburns, respect
I miss the accents of my youth.
Fascinating, thank you for recording this!
Your videos are gems.
love your work keep it coming... cheers...
Damn, you're accurate on the vowel chart! I was barely able to repeat small differences...
You are SO clever! Most of this is too complicated & long for me sadly = my brain injury. Thank you.
😂 I love the spoiler alert 😂