Another disadvantage to tuning a smaller engine when there's a bigger one on offer is that you're adding more stress to an engine, which may already be fragile to start with.
@@Tainami_ Well there is some room for modifications that fit within ADR's, but who cares lol... As long as the car isn't dangerous to drive, it's alright...
@@DownWithThisSortOfThing32 Yep, but even with something like a BMW, the N55 is the has more tuning potential and isn't a stressed, while the N20 will destroy its timing chain without warning...
I have learned over the years to just buy the more powerful model and leave it stock (maybe just exhaust to release the noise). It usually has bigger wheels and tyres and stiffer suspension.
The biggest downside to tune ups is that the car is later way less desirable for other buyers as nobody knows what exactly has been done, what effect did it have on the engine and surrounding parts (premature wear, cheap fixes, hidden problems like accumulated stress resulting in maybe a developing crack somewhere causing catastrophal failure or other issues like that) and last but not least availability of maintenance parts for the tune up items. Many brands simply discontinue their products leaving owners basically stranded and only hardcore mechanics know where to source similar parts to get it going again. Which leads to the biggest issue - unless you got a mechanic who can and will do the maintenance for such a car most garages will turn you down as they know how to work on a regular car/engine to offer you service + guarantees but not with a modified one. Some turn it down because they don't know how to do it and some simply because they don't need the hassle it may bring along (incl. longer work hours most customers are not comfortable to pay). Tune ups are good if you have enough money you could buy the top tier engine but you don't mind experimenting with a base model because you make enough money being able to afford the loss of resale value later + less interest from potential buyers. Do your math before you decide and once you do learn to live with your decission :) Best experience is own experience (if you keep being objective and not biased).
One thing I have enjoyed about building my slower car up is making it mine and the joy of putting your time & hands into making it a more fun machine. Grabbing a newer car with everything on it just now feels lame to me.
A thought provoking vid mate, I would be more than happy with a tuned 320i these days, today I took out the M2 Comp for a spin and while it was a great drive, can't really use all the performance without risking the license so it makes for perfect sense to go with the 320i.
I can certainly see the appeal of taking a 10k 320i and giving it some extra HP, power to match the looks so to speak. My only concern in this case, is the N20, specifically the stretchy timing chain.
I find buying the better model in the first place is the way to go. There's better bits added on such as better brakes and suspensions. Interior and exterior trims etc. It's like the saying. Poor man pays twice.
As a previous owner of a stage 2 F30 328i, owning a F22 M235i makes me regret 100% on modifying a car. No matter on money or maintenance, it's just not worth it.
@@KiwiCarLifethen you should modify your m135i after that you wouldnt want a tuned 320i. I have driven a 330e stage2 and it really didnt compete with the noise and feeling of a m135i
I've had a 320i f31 for 4 years now, hasn't skipped a beat - full speced out with the big brakes and factory body kit. Running some 535 touring wheels on it. I do love my wagons and have my eye on a dream c7 RS6
Great video as always. Btw next time you were gonna buy a cl9 please make a full used car buying guide explaining all the things should be checked before buying, it will be a great video.
ReDriven has one on their page but yes I agree it would be quite a fun video. One thing to look out for is the hydraulic steering pump recall that we had here in the states (not sure if it was an worldwide issue) and the Takata airbag recall but that’s the only main concerns I can think of sitting at 500,000ks on my 2005. Cheers!
Yeah all the airbag recalls have been done in NZ I think. And yeah the main things that go wrong are timing chain stretch (only above like 250-300,000km) power steering pump leaks, and driveshafts wobbling.
Something I noticed was every time you mentioned the 335i and presented an engine bay clip, you showed a clip of the B58, the engine from the 340i, however the F30 335i has the N55 not the B58
I have a 2013 ActiveHybrid3. Im not sorry I brought it. It’s a great car even in STD form. I get the economy around town as well as on road trip. It’s returned me 8.5L per 100 Kay’s on a trip from Tauranga to Kaitaia on 98 fuel. It’s quick enough. I like the Paddle Shift it does what it’s supposed to do and the changes are super quick. It has the big brake package which can be a plus but I tend to use the Auto to slow down rather than the brakes under normal circumstances. It’s a whole different ballgame when Sport or Sport+ mode. Fuel figures don’t factor into those modes, driving pleasure does however somewhat increase.
Yeah the hybrid makes some sense because it gives you the benefits of the large engine without the fuel economy increase. I’ve heard they’re not very reliable though
@. Maintenance is key. Like anything, if you look after it, chances are it’ll look after you. The battery for the Hybrid System has already been replaced. Other than that, no other issues.
I reckon that there is a nice happy medium; going for the 330i (with the B48 to avoid timing chain woes); you won't have to spend as much to tune it up so you should be around equal as the 320i cost wise while retaining 330i resale values
You should try out a tuned 320d for comparison. They are very popular in Europe. Even better fuel economy with excellent performance. The 325d is also a good middle ground car with tuning potential.
@KiwiCarLife How was the 123d? The automotive journalists were raving about those when they came out. Getting 100hp per litre out of a factory diesel engine was an impressive achievement for BMW.
I always had a soft spot for the 320i when i was younger for it being a small 6cylinder engine but now its 4pot and turbo, i dont find it half as interesting even if it is more powerful
I would've never bought the 1.6 diesel variant of my car, but since I'm stuck with it I might as well do some things to make it more enjoyable (while reducing the impact on reliability as much as possible).
NZ car prices are literally half of European prices and 25% cheaper than prices in the US. You have the cheapest used BMWs in the world for some reason.
De-badge the car. I did that on my F10 528i, popped a black rear roof spoiler on it too. Looks great. On the tuning front, my BMW has factory'ish pwer but has suffered a few electrical gremlins, so would a stage 1 tune make it more susceptible ?
I'm looking to buy a z4 e89 and I initially wanted to get the n20 inline 4 and tune it for great torque and power and enjoy that however after looking more into it I realised I didnt want to buy a car that could be seen as quite unreliable whereas the inline 6 model is a little slower and less torquey than the N20 but it seems to be far more reliable and will sound better. Sadly there are very few of these 30i models around and of those even less are manual and M-sport trim. I'm waffling here because your video on the z4 was how i found out about the z4 and honda s2000 and ive been hooked on getting one of them ever since.
Yeah man I had the same problem, if the N20 was reliable I would have got one, but because they’re a bit questionable and the 30i is non existent here, I had to go with the auto 23i. Still good, but a manual 30i would be the dream
I applaud the concept - keep on bringing interesting scenarios for us armchair critics to assess. In this case I fall heavily on the side of buying the better OEM car. And I've only had one car in 30 years that I haven't modified (and it was a top spec V8 that came perfect OEM). But in all that experience (1) you can never replicate the intrinsic things about a higher spec model, and (2) you will eventually find the coin down the back of the sofa to modify the said higher spec model even if you paid way more at purchase time. And then you're modding something surperior to begin with and even minor mods are going to put you into a different league to the lower spec car. I think delay your purchase until you can afford the higher spec one, that's something I've done and it's a 'no regrets' path. Just my ten cents from 30 years of modding.
That’s true, I guess it all depends on the ratio of price between the entry level and the top spec one. Some people here are saying that you should just buy an M3 rather than a 320i. Well, yeah of course it’s better it costs like 6 times as much!
I just checked car prices for New Zealand and I was shocked as a German. BMWs are around 50% cheaper in your country than here. A 10 year old 320i with 100k kms would cost around 15000 Euros or 28000 New Zealand Dollars, almost 3x more. Do you have 0% tax on new cars?
maybe mk7 Golf R and MK7 GTi would be fair to say the R is better but definitely don't think thats the case with the mk5 GTi and R32. Much closer in terms of real world performance than MK7 GTi and R
I'd agree, except in my case with this 320i getting a custom tune just made it slightly more powerful 328i. I've done 30,000km on this car and serviced every 6 months. Been extremely reliable and fun car to take on long distance road trips
I thought the same thing about the golf R and GTI as im going to get one imported over from Japan, Yes the Golf R makes alot more power and is 4WD but for my driving am I really going to spend that extra 10k more just to not spin my tyres? probably not. I know for BMW it might be a diffrerent subject as all of them are RWD pretty much and im just going to get a tune on the mk7 anyway to make up the power difference.
Personally I’d rather buy the bigger faster car. I bought an own an e46 323ci which I found a little bit disappointing. I now also have an e46 330ci & that’s much quicker.
I just looked onl8ne at having my car remapped and my insurance were all over me wanting to cancel my insurance. Had to send them like 20 photos of the car to prove it had zero mods.
I'd rather have a 545e, then would have the bigger engine and good fuel economy, but couldn't find one second hand in NZ so had to settle for the 2l 530e 😢
But doesn’t the cl9 have a 2.4 making your point somewhat laughable. 20% more displacement & 10% more power! Wow those cl9’s are super detuned at factory 🤔
@@christopherriley1187 Are you stupid or? the K24 in the CL9 is a 2.4L yes.. well done Naturally Aspirated... I don't know if you watched the video or know anything about forced induction and engines in general. the BMW has a 135kw/181hp 2.0 liter TURBO CHARGED engine. Even though the CL9s are yes still detuned, they still make more power without wait a minute ... an entire turbo attached to it. If you want a 2.0 example use the K20A2 or K20 out of a CL7 R, 2.0 NA and shit all over this in terms of factory output, mute and honestly idiotic point, typical bmw kid.
We had an F30 328i with the N20B20 "Twin Power Turbo". Honestly all I can say is - avoid. Ours suffered a catastrophic engine failure at only around 144k km. It was dealer serviced from the day it was bought, regular oil changes always done on time. Those engines are way too weak for the amount of power going through them.
Braies, sterling, châssis are often adapted or shaper vs thé small engine. Thais has toi be considered. In some cases it’s true that except thé power thé rest is similar.
@@djpaubeshey bro in the example he shows a hybrid 335i, if the battery goes then would the costs average out for each of them? or would the newer hybrid one still be better
Ok I guess that's where the idea breaks down a bit because an N/A 2.0L has almost no tuning potential. This only makes sense if you've got a turbo to play with
Makara beach b road? Ive always been pretty against european cars mainly cause of the repair bill when things go south but you cannot deny they do go well and for second hand dollars you get a lot of features for your money on a slightly older model over any of the majority snoozefest soulless cars out now.
A stock B58 would probably still beat a tuned 320i or 328i Probably by a lot too. A stock B58 puts down anywhere between 330-370 whp depending on the car. A tuned 328i makes like 260 whp MAAAAYBE
Should have done a roll race between the 320i and my M135i. Problem is the weight difference. But yes it'll probably never be identical but close for sure, and cost a lot less.
The 320i isn't a good sounding engine especially with the inevitable timing chain rattle! The BMW 6 cyl cars are always the way to go. N54 can have expensive problems, N55 less so but not as strong. B58 is the real sweet spot. They make more power than claimed anyway and have the internal strength of the N54. You can get 500bhp+ with relatively minor modifications.
That's fair, however the absolute cheapest B58 is over 30k atm. They are in a totally different bracket so ofc they're "better". If you've only got 10-15k a B58 is not a possibility so that's where a tuned N20 or B48 might make sense imo
@@KiwiCarLife Like your channel and you can drive which I enjoy. I just wouldn't do anything to a 320i honestly. If the price bracket is rigid go and buy an early Audi S3 like I will have for sale soon. Loads more real potential. If you ever visit OZ I'll be happy to demonstrate (probably with something else). Keep up the content, you're doing well.
M135i please sir. And yes, I would like fries with that. If you got a bigger engined car, It's cause you would rather spend your money on fuel, Speeeed & Powerrrrrrrr than orange mocha frappechinos and teeth whitening 😊
You can lie to others, but cant lie to yourself... People that would go to the effort and expense of tuning a car, will always want the bigger engine car. Just save longer and use the money you would have spent tuning getting the car you really want 😊
I guess, but it depends how much more the better car costs. If it’s double the price then that’s achievable, but if it’s 6 times the price, like say 320i vs M3, personally I think the financially sensible option is to buy a 320i and spend $3k on mods. I would be satisfied with that.
This is simply incorrect. I went this route for years, buying the cheaper model, modifying it to kingdom come to be almost as fast as the stock version of the higher end car. No more of that nonsense. I went out and bought a proper M car, and now i never have to do repairs, only maintenance, and very light mods. Ownership experience is a million times better.
Yes, but I'd make the argument that an M car is a dime a dozen, whereas a modified 328i or something is "your" car. Back when I had my modified Accord it was the "KiwiCarLife Car". Now even though everything I've owned since is "better" they're just the same as everyone else's.
@ i suppose if one of your main goals in being a car enthusiast is individuality & uniqueness, the sure buying & tuning a cheap car makes mire sense. But to me i just care about having fun & enjoying the driving experience. I dont care if other people have a similar car/ setup. But thats interesting, i assume you're in Europe? Here in America M cars are somewhat rare, but clean modded base model 2/3/5 series are everywhere
Sutherland performance tuned my van, (2.5 crafter), used 60% more diesel and was on boost the whole f*cking time. Got them to revert it to stock - did they refund my money - like f*ck. Wouldn't use them to tune a guitar.
Tuning isn't some magic bullet. Running the engine outside of the manufacturers spec is begging for (expensive) problems. Just ask the ex N54 owners....
@@wingmanlmg sure, when an engine is purposefully detuned by the manufacturer to upsell a higher spec. But in almost all other cases, things break, and they break quickly.
That applies if your tune is purely just for power. In many cases, a standard dyno tune, especially on a turbo vehicle can improve engine timing, reduce detonation, improve fuel economy, have the engine running better than factory and a bonus of more power and torque.
I know a few people with N54's and they all say the same thing. The engine is very overbuilt and can handle modifications no problem. It's all the stuff bolted to it that breaks. Water pump, turbo wastegates, oil leaks, etc. I know someone with a 600hp 135i and he hasn't had any issues, especially because he's replaced all the problematic factory parts with aftermarket ones.
you forgot to mention the N20 engine is as reliable as a McDonald's Ice Cream machine
Oh dear, that bad? 😬
@@davidbusch8912 Yep, they're known for timing chains completely failing without any warning
McDonald's ice cream machines actually are robust they tell you its not working so that they don't need to clean it up
Always has to be some smartass in comments. @@bmtbx8309
@@bmtbx8309 I thought so, always after 9pm 😵💫
Another disadvantage to tuning a smaller engine when there's a bigger one on offer is that you're adding more stress to an engine, which may already be fragile to start with.
ANOTHER disadvantage is, In New Zealand and Australia, for most mods (including a chip tune to a turbo'ed car) you technically need a cert. 🤓
Yeah but chip tune is virtually undetectable @@Tainami_
Going for something like the IS350 should help. Those V6's have the typical level of Toyota overengineering.
@@Tainami_ Well there is some room for modifications that fit within ADR's, but who cares lol... As long as the car isn't dangerous to drive, it's alright...
@@DownWithThisSortOfThing32 Yep, but even with something like a BMW, the N55 is the has more tuning potential and isn't a stressed, while the N20 will destroy its timing chain without warning...
I have learned over the years to just buy the more powerful model and leave it stock (maybe just exhaust to release the noise). It usually has bigger wheels and tyres and stiffer suspension.
Anything that's not a straight 6 usually has a coloured history of reliability with BMW.
Yeah only the latest B48 is proving to be a good BMW 4 cylinder. The rest are awful
@@KiwiCarLifepetrol four cilinder. The diesels are OK!
M47/N47, M57, N57, …
Thanks for reviewing my car mate! Looks amazing.
Yessss good car
The biggest downside to tune ups is that the car is later way less desirable for other buyers as nobody knows what exactly has been done, what effect did it have on the engine and surrounding parts (premature wear, cheap fixes, hidden problems like accumulated stress resulting in maybe a developing crack somewhere causing catastrophal failure or other issues like that) and last but not least availability of maintenance parts for the tune up items.
Many brands simply discontinue their products leaving owners basically stranded and only hardcore mechanics know where to source similar parts to get it going again. Which leads to the biggest issue - unless you got a mechanic who can and will do the maintenance for such a car most garages will turn you down as they know how to work on a regular car/engine to offer you service + guarantees but not with a modified one. Some turn it down because they don't know how to do it and some simply because they don't need the hassle it may bring along (incl. longer work hours most customers are not comfortable to pay).
Tune ups are good if you have enough money you could buy the top tier engine but you don't mind experimenting with a base model because you make enough money being able to afford the loss of resale value later + less interest from potential buyers.
Do your math before you decide and once you do learn to live with your decission :) Best experience is own experience (if you keep being objective and not biased).
That’s true
Ive never see someone change paddle shift gears with such sas.
Yeah sorry I just get a bit excited
@@KiwiCarLifeDont apologize, bmw’s are worth getting excited over!
Man ths is the best NZ car channel I've ever seen. subscribed
Thanks man!
One thing I have enjoyed about building my slower car up is making it mine and the joy of putting your time & hands into making it a more fun machine. Grabbing a newer car with everything on it just now feels lame to me.
Yeah that's definitely true! The satisfaction of building your own car up is very cool
yessir another upload, would love to see u do a t6 s60
Already have! Did an S60R
@ i mann the newer one with the turbo 6 cylinder
A thought provoking vid mate, I would be more than happy with a tuned 320i these days, today I took out the M2 Comp for a spin and while it was a great drive, can't really use all the performance without risking the license so it makes for perfect sense to go with the 320i.
Yeah I reckon there's benefits to buying the cheaper model. Naturally a 320i will never compete with an M2 comp, but you can make it a very fun car
I can certainly see the appeal of taking a 10k 320i and giving it some extra HP, power to match the looks so to speak. My only concern in this case, is the N20, specifically the stretchy timing chain.
Yeah if I was going to do this, I'd have to get a facelift one with the B48. Would trust that a lot more
@@KiwiCarLife Yes the B48 is a nice engine.
Got the n20 in 125i, so far so good, changed chain and thus gaskets at 180k km just in case, not a single other mechanical issue so far
Another advantage is less front heavy in 4 cyl
Yes true
I pulled the trigger and am now a Honda Accord euro r owner 🎉🎉
Nice one man’
I find buying the better model in the first place is the way to go. There's better bits added on such as better brakes and suspensions. Interior and exterior trims etc. It's like the saying. Poor man pays twice.
That's true
also a BMW needs a 6 cilinder at minimum
As a previous owner of a stage 2 F30 328i, owning a F22 M235i makes me regret 100% on modifying a car. No matter on money or maintenance, it's just not worth it.
Interesting... because I would be happy with a tuned 320i over my M135i.
@@KiwiCarLifethen you should modify your m135i after that you wouldnt want a tuned 320i. I have driven a 330e stage2 and it really didnt compete with the noise and feeling of a m135i
There’s also resale value to consider over both say a tuned 320i vs. stock 335i
I'll let you know, about to sell my tuned 320i
@@NzScruff think he is hinting of the opposite
Yeah, if I see someone's messed with it. The value goes down immediately.
Not just that it was messed with but the owner probably ragged it.
That's true
I've had a 320i f31 for 4 years now, hasn't skipped a beat - full speced out with the big brakes and factory body kit. Running some 535 touring wheels on it. I do love my wagons and have my eye on a dream c7 RS6
Very nice!
Back in the days I got the 6 cylinder N54 from the start and promptly tuned it to 480 hp. No regrets.
That would be a rocket!
Depends on the engine as a starting point. 320i is a good candidate because a remap gives you a lot
Yeah that's definitely true
Great video as always. Btw next time you were gonna buy a cl9 please make a full used car buying guide explaining all the things should be checked before buying, it will be a great video.
ReDriven has one on their page but yes I agree it would be quite a fun video.
One thing to look out for is the hydraulic steering pump recall that we had here in the states (not sure if it was an worldwide issue) and the Takata airbag recall but that’s the only main concerns I can think of sitting at 500,000ks on my 2005. Cheers!
@xenonsaccord4447 Thanks for the info! you got a clean looking cl9, love the color. Cheers!
Yeah all the airbag recalls have been done in NZ I think. And yeah the main things that go wrong are timing chain stretch (only above like 250-300,000km) power steering pump leaks, and driveshafts wobbling.
Something I noticed was every time you mentioned the 335i and presented an engine bay clip, you showed a clip of the B58, the engine from the 340i, however the F30 335i has the N55 not the B58
Yes, I don’t have any footage of a 335i so used 440i footage I did have
Always buy as close to finished product as possible.
Brakes, suspension, chassis, interior etc are all more suited to the end goal.
I guess in some circumstances that's true
Thanks for the info bro
All good
I have a 2013 ActiveHybrid3. Im not sorry I brought it. It’s a great car even in STD form. I get the economy around town as well as on road trip. It’s returned me 8.5L per 100 Kay’s on a trip from Tauranga to Kaitaia on 98 fuel. It’s quick enough. I like the Paddle Shift it does what it’s supposed to do and the changes are super quick. It has the big brake package which can be a plus but I tend to use the Auto to slow down rather than the brakes under normal circumstances. It’s a whole different ballgame when Sport or Sport+ mode. Fuel figures don’t factor into those modes, driving pleasure does however somewhat increase.
Yeah the hybrid makes some sense because it gives you the benefits of the large engine without the fuel economy increase. I’ve heard they’re not very reliable though
@. Maintenance is key. Like anything, if you look after it, chances are it’ll look after you. The battery for the Hybrid System has already been replaced. Other than that, no other issues.
I reckon that there is a nice happy medium; going for the 330i (with the B48 to avoid timing chain woes); you won't have to spend as much to tune it up so you should be around equal as the 320i cost wise while retaining 330i resale values
Yeah definitely agree that’s what I’d go for. B48 is a solid engine and can make 340i power with a stage 2 tune
You should try out a tuned 320d for comparison. They are very popular in Europe. Even better fuel economy with excellent performance. The 325d is also a good middle ground car with tuning potential.
That would be interesting! Performance diesels are impressive. Driven a tuned 123d
@KiwiCarLife How was the 123d? The automotive journalists were raving about those when they came out. Getting 100hp per litre out of a factory diesel engine was an impressive achievement for BMW.
I always had a soft spot for the 320i when i was younger for it being a small 6cylinder engine but now its 4pot and turbo, i dont find it half as interesting even if it is more powerful
Fair enough
I'd go for the 320i, because it's a Touring. I love fast wagons, we need more of them.
Yesss it looks so good
I would've never bought the 1.6 diesel variant of my car, but since I'm stuck with it I might as well do some things to make it more enjoyable (while reducing the impact on reliability as much as possible).
Yeah man! Do it
Just realized this is a NZ (kiwi lol) channel, man I miss driving in NZ, with alot of nice cheap cars too
Yesss good country (probably)
NZ car prices are literally half of European prices and 25% cheaper than prices in the US. You have the cheapest used BMWs in the world for some reason.
i big advantage to the lesser models is parts tend to be a lot cheaper.
That is also true! Can't imagine how expensive carbon ceramic M car brakes would be haha
I had a 320i in 2015. I hated it, now I have a M340i and I love it but the urge to upgrade to a G80 is strong.
Haha interesting, the G80 a lot of people thought was ugly but seems like people are coming round to it
De-badge the car. I did that on my F10 528i, popped a black rear roof spoiler on it too. Looks great.
On the tuning front, my BMW has factory'ish pwer but has suffered a few electrical gremlins, so would a stage 1 tune make it more susceptible ?
Debadge because you are ashamed of owning a lower model?
I doubt it. Electrical issues are usually separate from tuning
I'm looking to buy a z4 e89 and I initially wanted to get the n20 inline 4 and tune it for great torque and power and enjoy that however after looking more into it I realised I didnt want to buy a car that could be seen as quite unreliable whereas the inline 6 model is a little slower and less torquey than the N20 but it seems to be far more reliable and will sound better. Sadly there are very few of these 30i models around and of those even less are manual and M-sport trim. I'm waffling here because your video on the z4 was how i found out about the z4 and honda s2000 and ive been hooked on getting one of them ever since.
Yeah man I had the same problem, if the N20 was reliable I would have got one, but because they’re a bit questionable and the 30i is non existent here, I had to go with the auto 23i. Still good, but a manual 30i would be the dream
Or get a E85 with an M54B30 and go on a road trip to the alps and get face cramps from the constant smile on your face 😊
I applaud the concept - keep on bringing interesting scenarios for us armchair critics to assess. In this case I fall heavily on the side of buying the better OEM car. And I've only had one car in 30 years that I haven't modified (and it was a top spec V8 that came perfect OEM). But in all that experience (1) you can never replicate the intrinsic things about a higher spec model, and (2) you will eventually find the coin down the back of the sofa to modify the said higher spec model even if you paid way more at purchase time. And then you're modding something surperior to begin with and even minor mods are going to put you into a different league to the lower spec car. I think delay your purchase until you can afford the higher spec one, that's something I've done and it's a 'no regrets' path. Just my ten cents from 30 years of modding.
That’s true, I guess it all depends on the ratio of price between the entry level and the top spec one. Some people here are saying that you should just buy an M3 rather than a 320i. Well, yeah of course it’s better it costs like 6 times as much!
I just checked car prices for New Zealand and I was shocked as a German.
BMWs are around 50% cheaper in your country than here. A 10 year old 320i with 100k kms would cost around 15000 Euros or 28000 New Zealand Dollars, almost 3x more.
Do you have 0% tax on new cars?
Yeah man cars here are pretty cheap. Yeah no tax on new cars.
Never a contest. Always buy the better model. Tuning is a waste of money unless youve already got the top model.
Not sure I completely agree but I can see how you came to that conclusion
NOTHING Beats Lungs
A LARGER Engine Any day
That’s fair
320i with a tune I'd be happy with as a daily, given my daily is currently a 116i with a tune 😅
Yeah man I agree!
Theres always a place in the car community for "Sleepers"
Indeed
What do you reckon handles better altezza or accord euro r, I know you reviewed a altezza but it wasn't set up that well
Euro R is better in every single way
maybe mk7 Golf R and MK7 GTi would be fair to say the R is better but definitely don't think thats the case with the mk5 GTi and R32. Much closer in terms of real world performance than MK7 GTi and R
Disagree, I’ve driven a golf GTi club sport and a stage 1 GTi and they’re so much better than the R. Feels too heavy and safe. AWD is unnecessary
@KiwiCarLife completely fair, personally I think I'd take the GTi over the R also, on the Mk7 platform that is
Bigger, understressed engine every time thanks
That's true
I'd agree, except in my case with this 320i getting a custom tune just made it slightly more powerful 328i. I've done 30,000km on this car and serviced every 6 months. Been extremely reliable and fun car to take on long distance road trips
I thought the same thing about the golf R and GTI as im going to get one imported over from Japan, Yes the Golf R makes alot more power and is 4WD but for my driving am I really going to spend that extra 10k more just to not spin my tyres? probably not. I know for BMW it might be a diffrerent subject as all of them are RWD pretty much and im just going to get a tune on the mk7 anyway to make up the power difference.
Yeah honestly I drove a stage 1 mk7 GTI and it was blistering. No need for the Golf R
Would this also work with the diesel version? I don't want the N20 and we never got the 335d in the F30
Yeah probably!
Personally I’d rather buy the bigger faster car.
I bought an own an e46 323ci which I found a little bit disappointing. I now also have an e46 330ci & that’s much quicker.
Yeah I guess with N/A engines if you want more your only option is to buy the bigger engine
interesting video. doesn't this break your rule no.1 though? or do you consider these later models more reliable?
The N20B20 definitely not, N55B30 is pretty good and the latest B48 and B58 are solid
I just looked onl8ne at having my car remapped and my insurance were all over me wanting to cancel my insurance. Had to send them like 20 photos of the car to prove it had zero mods.
Really? How is that even legal insurance companies spying on your internet searches
How's the m135 going? I'm considering a 140 but at half ish the money the 135 seems worth considering, cheers
I’m loving it! Still going strong
I'd rather have a 545e, then would have the bigger engine and good fuel economy, but couldn't find one second hand in NZ so had to settle for the 2l 530e 😢
Interesting, never heard of them either. Must be a new thing
The 320i be baller till the 335i gets an MHD tune.
Well, yeah that's the trouble hey
181hp out of 2.0T seems insanely detuned from factory lol... thats less than a stock cl9?
But doesn’t the cl9 have a 2.4 making your point somewhat laughable. 20% more displacement & 10% more power! Wow those cl9’s are super detuned at factory 🤔
@@christopherriley1187 Are you stupid or? the K24 in the CL9 is a 2.4L yes.. well done Naturally Aspirated... I don't know if you watched the video or know anything about forced induction and engines in general. the BMW has a 135kw/181hp 2.0 liter TURBO CHARGED engine. Even though the CL9s are yes still detuned, they still make more power without wait a minute ... an entire turbo attached to it. If you want a 2.0 example use the K20A2 or K20 out of a CL7 R, 2.0 NA and shit all over this in terms of factory output, mute and honestly idiotic point, typical bmw kid.
@@christopherriley1187 But the Accord doesn't have a turbo, thats the point mate.
Yeah the 320i and 328i use the same engine. 320: 135kW, 328: 181kW.
@ ah! Ngl though I had no idea that the 2.0 petrol was turbo
If a tune is done right, by a reputable shop then yes.
Yes true
My problem is always stage 2 on a base model is still less or just equal to the model above. So the ceiling for performance is so much lower
Yeah that's what I mentioned at the end. This 320i is stage 1+ and it's still 25kW down on the 335i
@KiwiCarLife my mate has a stage 2 f30 320i n20 and I think it's around 300hp from memory
We had an F30 328i with the N20B20 "Twin Power Turbo". Honestly all I can say is - avoid.
Ours suffered a catastrophic engine failure at only around 144k km. It was dealer serviced from the day it was bought, regular oil changes always done on time. Those engines are way too weak for the amount of power going through them.
Yeah if I was to do this I'd have to get a facelift B48
@@KiwiCarLife That's something that'd be interesting to see!
The recoil on those gear changes though
Speed and power
I had a tuned m135i to around 420hp, was a weapon, rather save the extra 5-10k and go with that
Yeah tbh that makes a lot of sense
@KiwiCarLife not to mention the n55 is a lot more reliable haha
Braies, sterling, châssis are often adapted or shaper vs thé small engine. Thais has toi be considered. In some cases it’s true that except thé power thé rest is similar.
That's true, definitely noticed the brakes were not as good in the 320i
Are the newer B48 cars more reliable than these nuggets?
Yeah definitely. If I was to tune a 320i or 328i I'd have to get the facelift with the B48
@KiwiCarLife ironically in Australia is not much more expensive to get the newer car
Just same, whenever it over 100k km u still need to replace many things
How much do the insurance companies fleece you in extra premiums for these sorts of modifications ?
Definitely not as much as they would for a larger engine…
What about a earlier model of both of them as you can find a 335i between 7-14k
Expect to spends heaps in maint
@@djpaubeshey bro in the example he shows a hybrid 335i, if the battery goes then would the costs average out for each of them? or would the newer hybrid one still be better
Ok I guess that's where the idea breaks down a bit because an N/A 2.0L has almost no tuning potential. This only makes sense if you've got a turbo to play with
_hmmm this has some similarities IMO 😉 to the old question of V8 Mustang or Ecoboost Mustang 😁 I’ll take capacity here_
Yeah that's where the prestige and sound come into play big time
you can find 335i’s on trade me for like 7k-xxxxx they maybe earlier models but if it’s power that ur after it’s all goods
Yeah that's earlier models and they'll be clapped.
How on earth do you get 11L/100km out of your 135i, Mine has been for 2 years at 9.1l/100km.
Filming videos, track days, night drives. I don’t just pootle it around
@ don’t “pootle” it either but have not done any track days in mine yet. That’s a good point you do a lot of heavy foot driving
i just got a jaguar f type r awd and it was more than enough.
Very nice! I had no idea they made AWD F Type’s
@@KiwiCarLife take one for a burn. 550ps, 2015 or later, probably a relative performance bargain in the scheme of things now.
BMW 3 litre engines are alot better to tune than the 2 litre versions id say
Yeah definitely but they cost a lot more?
1:23, that’s a B58 mate
Yeah I didn’t have footage of a 335i so had to use 440i footage
Tuned .. can improve performance but not longevity 😂 cheers from Oz 🇦🇺
I wish our cars were as cheap in Oz as they seem to be in NZ 😮
I guess it depends on the engine. Most euro engines can handle a stage one tune no problem
Hey mate, I'm based in Palmy and do you want to hit me up with reviewing my Lexus GS450H?
Oh yes I could be interested
any chance you would want to review my 2005 toyota celsior?
Ooh yes I am most interested. Hit me up on instagram @kiwicarlife.yt
@KiwiCarLife only got "hey bro," in my msg request to you😅
Stock because durability, resale, presence.
Fair enough
Am I the only one that acknowledged ,that this engine is the B58 not N55.
Yes sorry should have been more specific. I didn't have any footage of a 335i so used that
Makara beach b road? Ive always been pretty against european cars mainly cause of the repair bill when things go south but you cannot deny they do go well and for second hand dollars you get a lot of features for your money on a slightly older model over any of the majority snoozefest soulless cars out now.
Yeah man if you do research and look out for the decently reliable ones, they can be fantastic
That's not an A4 engine at 0:22, that's a VR6!
Yeah I know I didn’t have any footage of an A4 so used an A3 3.2 engine shot
@@KiwiCarLife Alright fair mate, I'll let it slide this one time! 🤣
A stock B58 would probably still beat a tuned 320i or 328i
Probably by a lot too.
A stock B58 puts down anywhere between 330-370 whp depending on the car.
A tuned 328i makes like 260 whp MAAAAYBE
Should have done a roll race between the 320i and my M135i. Problem is the weight difference. But yes it'll probably never be identical but close for sure, and cost a lot less.
Ain't no replacement for displacement!
Falcon owners would agree HAHAHA
The paddle shift hands tho
Yeah was getting a bit too excited there
The 320i isn't a good sounding engine especially with the inevitable timing chain rattle! The BMW 6 cyl cars are always the way to go. N54 can have expensive problems, N55 less so but not as strong. B58 is the real sweet spot. They make more power than claimed anyway and have the internal strength of the N54. You can get 500bhp+ with relatively minor modifications.
That's fair, however the absolute cheapest B58 is over 30k atm. They are in a totally different bracket so ofc they're "better". If you've only got 10-15k a B58 is not a possibility so that's where a tuned N20 or B48 might make sense imo
@@KiwiCarLife Like your channel and you can drive which I enjoy. I just wouldn't do anything to a 320i honestly. If the price bracket is rigid go and buy an early Audi S3 like I will have for sale soon. Loads more real potential. If you ever visit OZ I'll be happy to demonstrate (probably with something else). Keep up the content, you're doing well.
N20 isnt the best platform to tune - however a B48 engine is much more reliable and has stronger potential - N55 over a N20, all day every day
Yeah agree if I was going to do this I'd definitely tune a B48
Timing chain*
Uh oh
Thats not an n55 what u showed in the Vid. Thats an b58 from an 340i. Also better then the n55.
Yes sorry should have been more specific. I didn't have any footage of a 335i so used that
M135i please sir. And yes, I would like fries with that. If you got a bigger engined car, It's cause you would rather spend your money on fuel, Speeeed & Powerrrrrrrr than orange mocha frappechinos and teeth whitening 😊
Agreed!
HAHA
Fuel efficiency is not the same as fuel economy. Check out the definition.
Potato potato
I swear I saw you in Whitianga at The wharehouse
You would have HAHA I was there two weeks ago
the n20 is the best engine with metanol
Gee I imagine any engine would go well with methanol
You can lie to others, but cant lie to yourself... People that would go to the effort and expense of tuning a car, will always want the bigger engine car. Just save longer and use the money you would have spent tuning getting the car you really want 😊
I guess, but it depends how much more the better car costs. If it’s double the price then that’s achievable, but if it’s 6 times the price, like say 320i vs M3, personally I think the financially sensible option is to buy a 320i and spend $3k on mods. I would be satisfied with that.
@ agreed. Within a reasonable price. I wouldn’t class the m3 as comparable, due to so much more differences other than the engine .
4 banger with a crackle tune... what more could you possibly want 😩
Not a crackle tune because they're cringe as fuck
HAHA yeah probably without the crackle tune, few light factory burbles are nice though
This is simply incorrect. I went this route for years, buying the cheaper model, modifying it to kingdom come to be almost as fast as the stock version of the higher end car. No more of that nonsense. I went out and bought a proper M car, and now i never have to do repairs, only maintenance, and very light mods. Ownership experience is a million times better.
Yes, but I'd make the argument that an M car is a dime a dozen, whereas a modified 328i or something is "your" car. Back when I had my modified Accord it was the "KiwiCarLife Car". Now even though everything I've owned since is "better" they're just the same as everyone else's.
@ i suppose if one of your main goals in being a car enthusiast is individuality & uniqueness, the sure buying & tuning a cheap car makes mire sense. But to me i just care about having fun & enjoying the driving experience. I dont care if other people have a similar car/ setup. But thats interesting, i assume you're in Europe? Here in America M cars are somewhat rare, but clean modded base model 2/3/5 series are everywhere
No gidday gidday?
😢
Sorry not this time!
You can do what you want 6 cylinders with 300 hp will be always better than 4 cylinders with 250+50 hp.
Noble engine. That's all...
That’s fair 6 cylinders are a lot smoother and sound better
The n20 is the probe😂
Well, yeah if I was going to tune a cheaper model I’d have to get a B48.
1:20 is a 440i with b58 😂
Yes sorry should have been more specific. I didn't have any footage of a 335i so used that
Oh you don‘t want to tune a N20. That will be a fucking nightmare
The owner of this one did and it's proving to be reliable. But agree, tuning a B48 would make a lot more sense
tidin tidin
Yes
Sutherland performance tuned my van, (2.5 crafter), used 60% more diesel and was on boost the whole f*cking time. Got them to revert it to stock - did they refund my money - like f*ck. Wouldn't use them to tune a guitar.
holy shit,thats a very bad tune!
Weird, I've heard they're pretty good?
N55>N20
In stock form, agree, honestly though a tuned B48 would make B58 power but be just as reliable and a lot cheaper to buy...
Absolutely not true. Can't believe this is coming from a car enthusiast
Hey, I'm just putting the idea out there!
N20 is up there with the worst motor bmw has made lol
Yes true, if I was going to do this I'd have to get a B48
Tuning isn't some magic bullet. Running the engine outside of the manufacturers spec is begging for (expensive) problems. Just ask the ex N54 owners....
Some engines and parts surrounding the engine can handle the extra power better than others, need to research before making that assumption
@@wingmanlmg sure, when an engine is purposefully detuned by the manufacturer to upsell a higher spec. But in almost all other cases, things break, and they break quickly.
That applies if your tune is purely just for power. In many cases, a standard dyno tune, especially on a turbo vehicle can improve engine timing, reduce detonation, improve fuel economy, have the engine running better than factory and a bonus of more power and torque.
I know a few people with N54's and they all say the same thing. The engine is very overbuilt and can handle modifications no problem. It's all the stuff bolted to it that breaks. Water pump, turbo wastegates, oil leaks, etc. I know someone with a 600hp 135i and he hasn't had any issues, especially because he's replaced all the problematic factory parts with aftermarket ones.
I would buy a honda 😅
Good car