Copy my EXACT resume and cover letter, Kick start your quant applications with a 33%-DISCOUNT Fall Application Sale using code RRWDV1T4 buymeacoffee.com/myquantitative/extras Need interview advice or want to chat? Drop me an email at myquantitative@gmail.com Looking for ways to stand out in your Quant applications? Watch this video for some unconventional advice to boosting your C.V. : th-cam.com/video/BKs_1lVTNrs/w-d-xo.html Looking for the best Quant funds and firms for jobs and internships? Watch this video to learn about this ONE firm that stood out for their well designed Graduate Recruitment Programme and also get a free Excel list of 190 FIRMS: th-cam.com/video/3JoxZi2Jfs8/w-d-xo.html One easy trick to apply when approaching your Quant applications to help you improve FAST! : th-cam.com/video/FVumQa5a8yA/w-d-xo.html
@dr.woozie7500 Meh, don't hype up my research that much. In the words of my professor, most undergrad research amounts to nothing, they are merely chances for undergrads to experience research. Bear in mind, my untraditional background coupled with my late transition and preparation, I am not the Ideal Candidate #1, hardly the sort of candidate Jane Street or Citadel are begging to sign up. Fortunately, the quant industry is bigger than just the biggest names on the street and fortunately, life is long and I am grateful for having secured my foothold and am enjoying my time growing within the industry
Wow, I’m pretty speechless by how much information you’ve provided and the extremely detailed replies you’re giving everyone. Thank you so much for this
@Anthony-mt1gp I almost feel a responsibility to guide others who may come after me. Thank you for the comment! It inspires me to keep pushing the boundaries on the value this channel can provide to the community in the long-run, so that others will not face the ambiguity I felt during my applications Whereabouts are you based in the world? Are you currently applying/preparing to apply for quant roles?
@@myquantitative I’m actually 17 and I pretty recently found out about a career as a quant. I definitely agree about the ambiguity, I’ve seen a lot of conflicting information, so it’s been hard to find out what I actually need to do to get the job as well as the stuff I’d be doing day to day. I live on the west coast of the US and I’m currently in my second year of an early college program, where I take all of my classes at my local community college to finish high school and get college credits I can transfer. I’ve been taking lots of math classes and I plan on majoring in statistics when I transfer. I won’t be applying for roles for a while, but do you have any advice about the things I can do now to increase my chances of getting a quant job later on? Also, I have some questions that I haven’t been able to get a clear answer to since I’ve started researching this career. 1. I’ve seen people say you can get a job as a quant with just a bachelors degree, but mostly I’ve seen that a masters is basically required and a phd is preferred, how does it really work? 2. Could I get a job as a quant by getting a bachelors degree and starting off with a different job, and using that experience to help me get the job or is it better to just get a masters degree? 3. If I do get a masters degree, is an MFE the best choice, and would it have to be from a top school? Sorry about making this so long, but like you said there definitely is a lot of ambiguity in this field. Thank you so much when you get to this!
@Anthony-mt1gp I can only wish I had your sense of clarity and direction when i was 17! 1) It is not unheard of but one should not expect it to happen. Such opportunities are available to exceptional undergraduates (think target school, STEM course (ideally CS, mathematics), stellar grades, strong research experience, demonstrated interest in the industry). Not all undergraduates or masters are made equal. It all boils down to the individual but as a general rule, a masters and above are the norm. There are absolutely brilliant undergraduates out there, whereas I have met individuals on my masters year that I would not trust to work a stove. The preference for PhDs boils down to how the quant industry began, when Wall Street began to computerise. Firms needed individuals who were strong programmers and adept in mathematics and naturally began looking to universities, filled with researchers with PhDs in CS, physics or engineering who were bored and looking for a new job to put their skills to use. Naturally, these first hires preferred their own when hiring. Overtime, as the industry grew, the supply and expectation of these roles grew and quant jobs also began to stratify in complexity and responsibilities. Now, not every role requires a PhD. Some firms may explicitly require PhDs for specific roles (think AI research scientist) whilst others are willing to interview an individual as long as their C.V. demonstrates exceptional technical capabilities, regardless of them having a Bachelors, Masters or PhD. Masters are now preferred because in general, the masters degree will be the first time a student partakes in research work. Undergraduates are not expected to have experience with research. Some firms can explicitly state they don't expect any prior knowledge of the industry, the caveat being you have to be intelligent to pass the screening stages which means you can and are fully expected to pick up new knowledge quickly on the job. An MFE is also used as a reset for those who have already been working for sometime in their fields (Data scientists, SWEs, engineers, researchers and many others). Typically an MFE at a target, this equips them with more finance specific knowledge and "resets" their C.V. in the eyes of the employer, giving them a valuable network and also time to apply for internships/placements/graduate roles. tldr 1: Yes it does occur but for exceptional undergraduates. 2) Not unheard of, but it works best if the different job is still adjacent to the industry with regards to skillsets. Think Data Scientists, Software Engineers, Statisticians, AI researchers, ML engineers. The tricky part will be getting enough relevant experience that demonstrates you have the technical ability, packaging this experience in a C.V., applying to as many roles as possible, selling this story to your interviewer and passing through the various hoops of the interview process. From the video you can tell that a decent amount of prep work is required. This will be challenging to say the least, especially while juggling a full-time job. Hence why going back to school (if you can afford it) is an easy but expensive way to buy yourself some extra time whilst also adding a newer packaging to your C.V. with an MFE. 3) An MFE from a target is the safest, tried and tested method into quant roles. But don't forget that the MFE+target school branding gets you the interviews, passing through them requires effort on your part. tldr 2: MFEs from a target reset your C.V, opening up opportunities for placements/interns/graduate roles, equips you with more directly applicable knowledge that could be useful for specific roles, provide valuable networking, research and recruiting resources as well as time, This gets you through most firms initial filtering layer. The remainder of the application process is down to your prep. tldr 3: Just demonstrate technical smarts and interview well I hope this is clearer. Thank you once again for your support of the channel and sharing more about your background and concerns. I hope to hear back from you :)
@joesilver75 Definitely on the higher end but it happens! It varies with the firm and likely the seniority of the role as well. At a graduate/entry level (where I was), there are plenty of hungry candidates hence the layers of filtering. Unfortunately, as with many other industries the number of rounds has increased over the years and will just keep increasing as more people get into higher education and gun for these roles. Hell, even internship applications can be competitive at some firms! Taking a week off just for one application, imagine if one has multiple live applications, good luck finding the time for those
@-BarathKumarS And that’s just to get your C.V. through the door! Next you have to survive whatever number of rounds they decide to throw at you! It’s like LeetCoding for SWE roles, attending Stanford for CS does not immediately make you a genius at LeetCoding, everyone has to pay their dues to the interview grind unfortunately
University degrees are to a good degree the most expensive HR pre-screen people pay. Going to these places proves you're of a certain class and have at least a minimum level of aptitude. I'm adjacent in a hedge fund, and it's shocking how everyone is white or asian. A few women scattered in between. No middle-class people, except external contractors like myself. The secret backdoor into these places is via outsourcing contracting. Also, quite a few hires seem to be just based on whom they like.
@@daysofend Elitism in finance is well known. Previously it used to be just going to any university. Then it became going to a target. Then it become going to the right course in the target. Then it become the right course in the right target and the right prep work, the right internship, the right networking events... and the list goes on and on and on! All the money and effort to enter a target just so a single box can be ticked by HR, one of a growing number of boxes. The use of targets also favours inherited meritocracy, those whose parents did well for themselves can afford the resources to prep one to qualify for admittance into these targets, the cycle then repeats. This is happening across the board for careers labelled as "prestigious". I shudder to think how the hiring will look like in a decade. Kids will need internships in high school at this rate!
@@myquantitative IMO medalists have been a thing for years. It can't go much further back than that. Top positions have been filled by IMO and Putnam participants. I think that prospective applicants will need to bring in their own PnL. I don't think just being smart and a graduate is good enough in a maturing field. Building your own trading setup and proving you built a working strategy is, in my opinion, the next bar. "Rockstar employees" are also less common. I've done hiring interviews before, and there's an increasing interest in collaboration skills over individual brilliance. I believe trends may reverse a bit more the main mass of quants and adjacents. The pool of graduates is not large enough to fill the rising need for programmers. Some companies are already creating different "tiers", and the low end of these will be much easier to get into if you put in the effort. Once in, you may be able to move laterally. I think things will get easier and harder at the same time. A paper and an internship are not enough when there are another half a million graduates as well per year.
@@myquantitative kids already have high school internship mate lol,i saw around 10 kids admitted to bio tech programs in ivy leagues and holy fking shit they all have research internships from pfizer,johnson & johnson,abbvie etc and also worked at a lab in an R1 University. Every single one of the 10 people have a profile that any biotech major would have coming out of school,not getting into school. I got in touch with all of them and you can pretty much guess how they got all of this stuff in their resume,their parents are comfortably upper class working jobs like venture capitalists/neurosurgeon/tech consultant while some parents have jobs as University professors in R1 schools and have spent $50,000 or so in elite prep schools grinding for grades along with mentorship from top tutors. Not one of them come from a poor background, all of them are privileged so can maixmize their credentials and add that with ivy league programs they are gonna attend it's almost impossible for anyone to compete with these people. Imagine thinking as a clueless kid with average SAT scores and not so impressive extra curriculars graduating from a school in the middle of nowhere(which is really 90% of the app pool because you have no connections or neither rich to afford tutors or anything as a matter of fact,even grades are useless cause every school only cares about extracurriculars),he is gonna get crushed like the little cockroach he is. My brain just exploded in half when i saw the profile of a MIT mechanical engineering student's maker portfolio (got scholarship too),the work he did in highschool is comparable to graduate thesis projects which makes me wonder why they even need to go to college in the first place and once gain his parents are filthy rich(Dad is ceo of a consultancy firm with harvard MBA) I feel sorry for kids 10 years from now,i think this is also one of the reasons why I'm not having kids. Ok but enough of rambling,just frustrated at the moment. /endofrant.
I never leave comments, but after reading this video, I feel you are beyond deserving of one. I hope it boosts the algorithm in your favor, one way or another.
@codewithmicah-18 Comments like these mean the world to me, it inspires me to keep pushing the boundaries of what this channel can become! Are you currently applying/planning to apply for quant roles? Whereabouts are you based in the world?
@FaagunS Thank you for the support and appreciate the comment! Every little bit helps with the algorithm! Whereabouts are you based? Always curious to know where my viewers are from!
Good job on the video! I am coming from construction industry myself and i was working really hard to get a job as a pricing actuary in the insurance now. I can totally agree, applying to similar positions which would give your opportunity to get another set of skills is necessary. Unfortunately i learned this all to late my self. And about the "better degree"... Sure it helps to have relevant degree, however i did civil engineering and then every and sustainability. London is a place where you can become anything at long as your have the right mindset! I would get up at 5am myself and study statistics, programming, machine learning and do applications in the evening. Hire cv consultants (people who actually sit with your and consult, not just get back with a final result), they are really worth it.
@prison9865 Thank you for the comment and sharing your story about your transition, I hope others reading get inspired by your tenacity and grit. Are you currently based in London yourself?
Even though this video has no direct relevance to me as a non-STEM student, this video was brilliant. Extremely informative and is full of insights that are no doubt useful for many industries. Excellent work and congratulations on the offer!
@@myquantitative My pleasure! For me, it's the legal industry. Thankfully, I've managed to secure a training contract but it was one hell of a process. What you shared here seems to echo a lot with some of what I experienced in my search. Even though I wasn't looking for a TC with the top-dog firms such as those within the 'Magic Circle' etc., quite a few of my peers are. I found it interesting that a lot of what you talked about in terms of what you did well and what you could have done better were things that my peers who have been successful in getting those TCs have done. This really was a brilliant video and is definitely useful for anyone trying to break into competitive industries!
@@benz. Wow, has the number of rounds of interviews and assessments steadily increased over the years as well? I shudder to consider how the expectations of candidates will change over a 5, 10 and 20 year horizon@
@@myquantitative I thought this would be a relatively simple question to answer but I got a bit carried away, and have in turn produced quite a lengthy response which you're under no obligation to read! I'll try and summarise a bit here by saying, possibly yes, but there is now far more emphasis on quality instead of quantity. The rounds of interviews and assessments are definitely a big hurdle, but the number of rounds you must go through isn't necessarily the biggest barrier, albeit, they are a significant one. Anyway, here's my essay 🤣: It's hard for me to say really. From speaking to those who qualified and have been working as solicitors for a while now, it was tough getting a job decades ago, and on quite a few occasions some have remarked about how they had sent close to a hundred applications for jobs to finally land one. I think it’s fair to say that in times gone by, it was very much a quantity process, throw enough darts at the wall and eventually one will stick. Nowadays, from day one, you must be in the know and acute to the process and must prioritise quality. As a bit of background, lifting this straight from a site, “[t]here are around 5,500 training contracts available every year. The Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) reveal that 33,235 students finished studying a law degree in 2018/19, with this being split as 12,755 being postgraduate and 20,480 being undergraduate.” That being the case, the law market is heavily saturated. But as I mentioned previously, you must be ‘in the know and acute to the process,’ specifically that directly applying for a training contract isn’t necessarily the way to land a training contract. From day one as a Law undergrad, you need to be applying for First Year schemes such as ‘Insight Schemes.’ These don’t necessarily lead to a training contract, but firms run these schemes to identify talent early on, and they can lead to training contracts, see for example: the Clifford Chance SPARK scheme. If your foot is not in the door from day one, your chances of securing a training contract slowly diminish. Vacation Schemes seem to increasingly be the way law firms select people for training contracts, and competition is fierce. It is important to note that these schemes, be it Insight Schemes or Vacation Schemes, all require an incredible amount of application crafting to get on to. You can expect telephone and video interviews, online tests, and assessment centres, just to get on to the Vacation Scheme which even then, doesn’t guarantee a training contract. Applying directly for a training contract has the same lengthy process of hurdles to overcome. Essentially, the odds are stacked against you if you want to get a training contract - as with any other competitive industry really. Those who go through their undergraduate years and complete a law degree and still haven’t secured a training contract often consider self-funding their post-graduate training. Before 2021, the post-graduate course for lawyers was called the Legal Practice Course (LPC). The LPC still exists as an option for those who commenced their degrees/were offered a place before September 2021, but it has now been replaced by the SQE, the Solicitors Qualifying Examination which was brought in by the Solicitor’s Regulatory Authority (SRA) to reform the routes to qualification, essentially making it easier to become a solicitor. I won’t get into that whole discussion in this comment but the SQE and its implications are… interesting. I will only mention that the LPC had/has a better pass rate than the SQE, but how that’s all quantified is a bit complex. I can get into that another time if you wish, but it’s just worth noting for now. In 2018-20, the LPC only had around 20-24% of students being funded by their employers, the rest of course being students who have ‘self-funded’ the LPC. I think it is fair to say that most students who self-funded the LPC did so to become a more attractive applicants, i.e.: they have continued their professional development at their own cost (so the employer doesn’t need to pay) and that they can commence a training contract (the important part being the 2 years of qualifying work experience needed to become a solicitor) straight away. This is a gamble on their part, especially when considering the course usually costs around £16k. This gamble doesn’t always pay off. So the current landscape consists of grinding away at crafting applications to get your foot in the door for schemes that don’t necessarily lead to training contracts, or applying to them directly. But these schemes are now HUGELY important to landing a training contract. Once your application is sent off, you’re expected to go through stages of interviews, online tests, and assessment centres to get on to these schemes. Even if you’re applying directly for the training contract, you’re still doing these interviews, online tests, and assessment centres. All the while, for each firm you apply to, you must have researched every inch of it to ensure that you ‘know your stuff.’ I haven’t mentioned until now, but as you’re focusing on quality, you’re realistically only applying to around 5-10 firms, so the research and refinement required quickly adds up. You’re doing all of this to try and secure a training contract in which the firm pays for your post-grad training (the LPC or SQE). If you don’t get a training contract, you might decide to invest your own money into self-funding the post-grad training which is a further cost sunk into your desire to become a solicitor, and even then, there’s no guarantee that after several more rounds of applications (i.e. years) that you will get a training contract. So in terms of how many interviews and assessments you must go through, it perhaps hasn’t changed much, but the effort required alongside the chance of securing a TC has (in my view) placed considerably more expectations on students than there has been for previous cohorts. Regarding how this might change in the next few years, the SQE has been introduced to make it a bit easier to become a Solicitor. The route under the SQE looks like this: 1. Have a qualifying law degree - so an accredited LLB or a non-law degree + a conversion known as the GDL 2. Take the SQE examinations 3. Have 2 years of qualifying work experience (QWE) 4. Enroll as a Solicitor. Now, the first part of that is standard and has been for years. The second part gets interesting. The SQE is two exams (SQE1 + SQE2) which cost £1,798 and £2,766 respectively. Chances are, you’re not taking these without taking a prep course which is an additional cost to the exams, or are doing an LLM which provides SQE prep and allows you to get a Masters's degree alongside it (similar to the LPC courses which can be an LLM in Legal Professional Practice, or MSc in Law, Business and Management). This is all extra cost in addition to the exam fees - which you have to pay extra to resit, unlike the LPC. The third part is even more interesting. The whole purpose of a training contract at a firm is that it provides two years of qualifying work experience for you to become a Solicitor. This has now changed, and the SRA (I do apologise for the insane amounts of acronyms I’ve used) has made it much easier to get this work experience. According to the SRA, the following ‘time spent’ can be used as QWE: a placement during a law degree, working in a law clinic, at a voluntary or charitable organisation or a law centre, working as a paralegal, or on a training contract. That means that people who have completed the examinations and have worked as a paralegal for 2 years can now, technically, become a Solicitor. This is supposed to lower the high barriers to entry into the profession. But the question of whether or not a person who is now a qualified solicitor using say, paralegal experience, would be able to join a firm and climb up the ranks, is to be seen. I guess I’ll put my doubts on the record here. Either way, the SQE has definitely shaken things up; but the traditional route of going through a training contract is, in my opinion, here to stay. And if the number of legal grads continues to rise, it will only become even harder within the next 5, 10, or 20 years, despite the SRA’s interventions.
@javaman8844 oh the good ol' days, when we could walk into the lobby, bump into the CEO, shake his hand and hand him our C.V in the lift, crack a joke or two, and start the next day. The game has changed, so we have to adapt the best we can!
@andychan9585 I completely understand mate. It is brutal. Unfortunately, not all of us are Math whizzes who get inundated with offers from Jane Street and Citadel. It's a grind, like any other job application process. Power through!
@@myquantitative Yes I am currently applying for trading, structuring and quant junior roles. I am based in Paris and looking for positions in Paris, London and Hong Kong ! :)
Good content - i would also add markets, particurly for the buy side. Im a quant researcher in a team that trades equities so I had questions on equity valuation, investment ideas, stock pitch, macro environment etc. For high-frequency teams u might get microstructure questions too, like limit order book structure, bid-ask dynamics etc.
@jeae9063 Thank you for your support and kind comment. The quant industry always had a air of mysticism, prestige and glamour surrounding it. It is almost always associated with the stereotypical mathematics prodigy, Math/Physics/Informatics Olympiad winner who attends MIT for mathematics and CS and makes half a billion dollars every nanosecond at Jane Street/Citadel. While the above character is no outlier, they do indeed exists at top universities around the world and can command eye-watering compensations, but so are the quants that make up the remaining roles that require a quantitative skillset. I fall into the latter camp, just a former engineering graduate looking to explore his curiosities but also seeking above average compensation (like everyone else). My current role and location will certainly never see me draw salaries that come close to the one described above but it is still a step on a long journey, which I hope to share more via this channel as I go, and if I am lucky, one or two that come before me will be a little wiser as a result. A previous comment mentioned how the sheer number of applications I had to submit was an indication that I wasn't cut out for this industry. Perhaps so, but the same goes to anyone else trying to make a switch. In which case, I wish that individual all the best, and pray that each path they walk was perfect from the get go.
Hey I just wanted to say that I think that you providing all of the lessons that you've learnt along the way really help students looking to take the leap into quant finance. I wish that your channel existed when I started applying for roles about a year ago. I trust that implementing the last year of feedback from firms, experience solving the problems similar to the ones on your channel and using your channel as a talking point in interviews will (almost) surely secure you your dream role in quant finance.
@plainjulien Thank you Julien for the comment! It's heartwarming to know my experience will continue to help future applicants! What other videos would you think will be valuable for future applicants?
@nipunikalnu8645 Thank you for the comment. Are you currently applying/planning to apply for quant roles? Whereabouts are you based in the world? Let me know if you want any particular videos, e.g. reviewing my C.V., cover letter, questions to ask interviewers
@@myquantitative hey yes. I am based in India and I have an year of FANG experience as an SDE. However firms in India only hire quants from very specific colleges and unfortunately I’m not from one of those colleges(still graduated from a pretty good uni tho). So I’m looking for quant firms in EU. I only have a bachelors in engineering and most firms seem to be asking for a masters equivalent. How common is it for firms to hire quants with just a bachelors? In terms of content, I would be truly grateful if you could: 1. Make more videos about the holistic interview experience(similar to how there are a lot of mock interviews for SWE roles) plus it would be a great added bonus if you could tell us how to find more interview experiences of other people(a platform similar to leetcode discuss bc I couldn’t find anything for quant roles) 2. Data processing. This is more of a personal request and idk how much your lowest common denominator audience would benefit from it but I haven’t seen any data processing questions in any interview experiences so idk what to expect plus I’ve never explicitly studied that. 3. How to actually apply to jobs? Ik you cover a lot of the basics in this video but if we could get a deep dive into how you searched for jobs, the online resources you used for your job search, if you dropped off any personalised notes to the hiring managers, I’m sure we will all rly appreciate that. Again, thanks for making such quality content. There are few creators who are clarifying the whole process of getting a job in a quant role and you are definitely one of the most quality content creators among them :)
@nipunikalnu8645 Quant firms do increasingly have roles open to bachelors but the caveat being they have to be exceptional bachelor students, typically showing strong research experience. It is this requirement that has made this industry historically a stronghold for PhD holders, with the minimum now often being a masters degree as you have discovered. Thank you for the content suggestions. Those are a goldmine! I am keen to produce those! There are just so many possibilities! I look forward to continue providing value for the community!
Hey this is so helpful and in depth, exactly what i was looking for!! I’m currently an entry level swe with not even a full year of experience, and was contemplating switching to quant researcher type of role and this has given me a lot of clarity. Thank you very much!
@armalekhan7026 Thank you for the comment and congratulations on your new role as an SWE. I'm glad to know my experience has proven useful to others. Whereabouts are you based in the world and what is your academic background?
I need some guidance... 1. I'm currently pursuing a Business degree, although I was a STEM student in high school. Even now, my minor is in computer science, and many of my other subjects are statistics-based. 2. I am not enrolled in some top tier college or university. 3. I aspire to be a Quant. Even though, I recently learned about this field, I've always been fascinated by numbers. Mathematics, to me, is a language in itself, and I want to be one of those who translate the stories that numbers tell to people who don't quite understand them. So, When people asked me what I wanted to do, I told them about the role of a quant, and now I simply say, "I want to be a Quant." I know that passion and interest are important, but I need something concrete. I need to develop my mathematical and programming skills, as well as my financial knowledge. So, I need some help. Could you tell me what I can work on to increase my chances? And, more importantly, is it even possible for a non-STEM student like me?
What I would do is to find a relevant intro to quant finance course online (Even a free one) OR a good book used as reference in a top university (Ideally Black-Scholes-Merton, at least), study prerequisites until I understand what the math is about, study the content, and then I would create a github and I would build a couple of tools using what I learned. Then link your github profile to your CV in a way that it is impossible to miss and apply - a lot.
It sounds like you want to be a teacher or a data scientist more than you want to be a quant (presumably on the buy side). Quants don't explain what numbers mean to laypeople. They're maths/coding prodigies that work alongside other maths/coding prodigies and geniuses to make shit tons of money on financial markets.
@kundaimutukwa9536 Thank you for the comment! Always warms my heart to know my experience has proved valuable to somebody else. Makes the experience worth it! Are you currently preparing for quant interviews?'/intending to pursue a career in quant finance? Whereabouts are you based in the world?
@@myquantitative hey you’re welcome. I am currently studying the CQF but I have about some years experience in investment banking and trading but want to transition into quantitative trading
@flapablesteak8986 thank you so much for the comment! More to come in the pipeline! Stay tuned! Are you currently applying/preparing to apply for quant roles?
@flapablesteak8986 The game is tough, but as long as we temper our expectations, you will be surprised at what outcomes can happen with perseverance and luck!
@kacperwodarczyk9349 Such is fate. Each interview, each application, has elements of luck, a roll of the dice. They see me rolling, and they be rejecting me unfortunately Whereabouts are you based? Are you currently applying/planning to apply to quant roles?
@abrasp I'm heartened that my experience can light the path for others who come after me, regardless of how arduous the path maybe. Are you intending to pursue a quant career?
@@myquantitative Thank you for making this video, we need more people like you. I did engineering, just like you. Always been passionate about the idea of using algorithms to trade markets, so when I discovered what quant firms do, I wanted in. I am currently pursuing a PhD in ML and hope to transition into any quant role (research/trader/dev) later on. But I must admit, the elitism in finance and even the job market as a whole is boring me already. There are many ways to become successful, so we will see. In any case, you already reached your own success, so congrats!
@@abrasp Wow all the best on that, you are in one of the highest demand fields and qualifications right now! A close friend of mine is also doing a PhD in AI, he gets top quant firms reaching out to him instead. Crazy levels of demand. Quant trading firms are definitely the sexiest players in the game but many forget that quants are employed in a plethora of positions within the finance industry. Unlike the sexy alpha quants at trading firms, many will not have their work directly tied to a PnL. Alpha quants will also live under the pressure of performance, make enough loses/ don't make enough to hit performance targets and your entire team/strategy gets shut down and you're out. Like SWEs at FANG companies, these handful of roles do skew the perception of the industry, particular on remuneration! Most of us are paid no where close to those numbers but definitely above average overall. we are young and should explore! If you have an idea and no constraints holding you back, go for it! Quants are ultimately just above-average to highly paid employees, in terms of pay, they still suffer from the same lack of scale as any other job. Perhaps traders have some ability to scale with a consistent strategy that has not hit capacity, but those are rare and few to come by! Tech is in doldrums right now, firms are retrenching left right and center as they cut bloated cost centers. Thank you for the compliment. My job is just one step on an incredibly tall ladder. If anything, these few months have taught me just how much I don't know! But on the bright side, because the field is knowledge and skills intensive, I could have something to entertain me for the rest of my life! Whereabouts are you based, may I ask?
@@myquantitative Thank you for this detailed reply, very interesting. You are right, I tend to forget there is more to quant than just the alpha side of things. As for your question, I am based in Belgium. I've got a question as well. Does your friend do their PhD at a top school?
@abrasp. Yes that friend of mine does their PhD at a top school (think Oxbridge + London Universities). But that individual is a consummate researcher, even when compared to their PhD peers. I heard the PhD stipends are pitiful in the EU and apparently not as low as those in the UK. That friend of mine gets paid less than a bartender in the UK, it is a shame.
Thank you so much for this video. I found your words on backup plan insightful. Given that I want to find some position in EU I should also prepare myself for a second career path maybe....
absolutely brutal application process. 7 days for one firm should be illegal. but i guess thats what happens when you want one of the most lucrative and coveted jobs itw.
@trytofindareasonwhy Indeed, that's the case for other lucrative roles in Private Equity, Software Engineering, Investment Banking, Hedge Funds. While not all firms have such brutal processes, increasingly, these practices are trickling down to the "lower-tier" firms, I shudder to think how the job application process will look like for the next generation. Brutal indeed.
@amolarora7522 it was a mixture of applications directly on the company website, my university's job portal, LinkedIn, eFinancialCareers and recruiters applying to roles in their portfolio on my behalf. LinkedIn and eFinancialCareers make applications easy with a click of a button but whether anyone on the other end is monitoring the application inbox, is subjective. For company websites, I had steadily collected a list of firm names from reading news articles and general browsing, which I made available to download in the description of my second video linked below. th-cam.com/video/3JoxZi2Jfs8/w-d-xo.html It's not much, only about 190 firms but it was just one more source, the more the better! With LinkedIn job postings, the general consensus is that there is no harm trying, however, if the firm has the role listed on their own application page, it is best to apply through that rather than LinkedIn as the Internet seems to have enough examples of HR simply not monitoring the job posting on LinkedIn and/or being oblivious to where the submitted applications actually end up. I'm considering making a video about how I went about my applications, what sources I used, my application strategy etc. Would you be interested in something like this?
I definitely second this. I'm finishing my PhD in STEM and would very much appreciate to know your insight into job discovery. If you put it in a patreon, I'd even pay for it.
Thank, I wish you all the best on your applications! What sort of content would you be most interested in viewing? Would love to get everyone's thoughts to guide this channel to be a valuable resource for aspiring quants!
Im currently 17 and want to be a data scientist/machine learning engineer but there seems to be an overlap in the skills required for quantative analysis and the afromentioned fields,. Im also in the uk and study maths , further maths, chemistry and cs. Im also currently making projects and learning libraries used for data analysis and visualisation in python , studying extra curricular maths like multivariate calculus , more advanced linear algebra and statistics beyond my a level subjects. My school's careers officer suggested i also build a person brand so ive just now started making yt videos concerning maths/cs , my a level subjects really as a way to show my passion for ds/mle. I guess my question is something like : do you think i should be doing anything more to ensure i get ahead of my peers and comptetitors? As well as : would you say its easy to pivot from data science to quantative analysis? , there does seem to be an overlap in technical skills but i suppose the finance knowledge is an extra in being a quant as compared to data scientist. Thanks :)
Great talk man. I'd be curious to know about System Design, multiprocessing, or other non-DSA/core coding topics that came up. I bet there are a handful of APIs one would do well to just memorize
@brandonallen2301 Thank you for the comment! Unfortunately I am not familiar with those fields. Those fall within the realm of quantitative developers (essentially software engineers) so your best bet is to follow the prep work expected highly competitive SWE roles. The only overlap between the prep work for such roles and the roles I applied for were just your standard DSA style coding questions, with the exception that I generally faced easy-mediums instead of hards. Hards have been known to make appearances in interviews but the general consensus I've seen, seem to be that they are rare. That being said, if you do have experience and decide to list those on your C.V. and if the interviewer happens to a dev, you should be prepared to face questions regarding them. I've had rounds with devs and did face questions regarding DSA and general programming concepts but those were clearly tailored to fit my C.V. and background. Of course if I did apply for quant devs roles, I would likely have been thrown such questions.
Thank you for putting this video together! Sorry you had to go through so much time interviewing. You are dedicated and your experience is valuable to others! Are you able to share any details about the take home assessments you worked on, or do they make you sign NDAs while interviewing?
Could you do a video about fpga/computer implementation roles in quant. I'm currently studying for my masters in microelectronics engineering and I have a strong interest in arithmetic circuit optimisation. I’m also interested in low latency trading.
@dekev7503 Thank you for the comment, appreciate it! Unfortunately those topics fall under the realm of quantitative developers and engineers working in HFTs and I am not in a position to speak on those topics!
Thanks a lot for your very detailed presentation, full of good hints. But I (and maybe others) miss one important point: after such a long and tiring process did you got an interesting position ?
@HiltonFernandes Yes I eventually received an offer. To be clear, this wasn't in one of the typical ultra competitive firms with eye watering compensation, but it still pays above average for my location, it is in a small growing team with whom I get along well, the office is gorgeous with a great supportive culture and I can see myself growing within the role for years to come. The way I see it, the journey has just begun, entering into a quant role made me realised just how little I knew and the endless knowledge there is to pick up, it is exciting yet intimidating but it is to me, the right mix for a career : ) Are you currently applying for quant roles yourself?
I say it's easier to make a quant of yourself, get a basic job and over the course of a few years be your own employer as a part time / hobbyist. Why should you be a highly qualified employee when you can do your own small scale quant trading for a fraction of the effort and money that scales, plus the free time to do whatever you want after several years? As an employee, you get to be a cog in their machine and limited to a salary.
@Dan-uf2vh Thank you for the comment! This is an avenue of thought that some quants (and others interested in the trading space) have thought about before. Take a look at the r/quant and r/algotrading subreddits and this topic does pop up often. Here are some non-exhaustive reasons why it is not as simple as it may seem (Current quants or others in the industry definitely chime in on this!). The elephant in the room would be finding a successful strategy (likely a basket of these to form a portfolio). As an institution, the range of data sources, hardware and software, tradable financial instruments and some might argue community, makes discovering and refining these strategies a lot easier. As an individual, you will work alone, have to pay for data sources and software licenses (companies have scale on these costs since the data and licenses is accessible to the entire pool of researchers and developers), have a limited pool of tradable instruments. Going from an institution to an individual quant trader severely shrinks the pool of strategies accessible to you. I like to think that resources and scale of an institution serves as a platform for quants to put their brilliance to work. Without those, there is only so much a quant can do. A strategy might go from profitable to loss-making once you remove the efficiency of execution and fees a firm would have vs a retail trader. That's why firms spend money optimising every inch of the pipeline apart from alpha signals, from execution, portfolio optimisation, advanced risk analysis and negotiating for best deals from their prime brokers or creating a complex and bespoke derivative to suit the needs of a particular strategy. To make a living you would have to either; make a somewhat consistent outsize returns on small capital or consistent small returns on large capital. The first might be possible for some periods but remember you have to make a living for the rest of your life, can we stomach the drawdowns? For the second, if you do possess such a large capital (perhaps from being a great trader at a firm), you might find that all the effort for consistent small returns could instead be replaced by placing the lump sum into various dividend paying assets instead, rather than attempting to have a go at the markets once more, albeit from a technologically inferior position. While some quants do have their job security tied to a PnL such as QTs, many others don't explicitly. Depending on the firm, even during times of underperformance, quants still get paid an above salary, something not afforded to an individual retail trader trying to make a living from their own PnL. Don't under estimate the price of stability! I've heard stories of some quants/traders whom, after minting money working in the industry, move on to their own hobbies. While they may still trade from time to time, I don't think they realistically rely on the PnL from these activities to fund their life, likely it serves as an intellectual exercise/pursuit rather than a living. That being said, search on the internet long enough and you will find stories of people claiming to be independent traders/quants, the veracity of is not known. While I will certainly not rule out the possibility (since I'd like to entertain the idea of doing this myself one day), the sheer effort involved in climbing up this hill, makes one wonder if there are better ways to make a living.
@my_quantitative Trading the market at any point in time is a zero-sum game. Your lengthy reply elaborates on how you get stiff competition. However, the market has a tendency to go up. 🙂 So, while it is a bad idea to share your trading advice in good faith, I'm going to recommend the way Buffet does: invest long-term where I'm investing 😄!! The more volatile stocks on the market is generally what my system picks up, although sometimes in the billions of market capitalization. Nowadays, many of them are biotech but overall range across domains. Some proof to this idea is that I can't get any simulations where I turn a long-term profit from shorts. This shows I'm not really able to exploit anything by trading itself but rather by picking up portions of speculative growth from the market (some of that shows up either in dips as well as in highs). I would also get very large drawdowns across large swaths of time but overall come on top sooner than if I had gone into some random business venture.
Thank you very much for giving us such a detailed guide and describing your personal experiences. Content like this is very rare. May I ask whether you went through most of your applications during your master’s studies or after them when you had more free time? I am currently completing a master’s degree and I find it hard to stay on top of applications to jobs at times when there is more coursework/deadlines/exams.
Thank you for the comment! Much appreciated! I went through most/if not all my applications after my masters studies and after getting a year+ of work experience. I actually left my job just before starting my applications (getting my first interviews). During my masters studies, I was woefully underprepared and knew nothing about the expectations for a quant interview. Most of my applications never cleared the CV screening. The ones that did, I instantly knew I would not make it through assessments the moment I was sent my first Online Assessment (OAs). I recall having to write an email to Bank of America Merrill Lynch to turn down an invitation for an interview for their Quant Analyst role when I saw the agenda, I knew I was not prepared. Juggling your studies with applications is tough. Unless you’ve already done lots of prep work, I don’t think it’s worth it to jeopardise your final year juggling if you can afford it. I suggest focusing on completing your studies, having fun, making memories and just perhaps, beginning some light prep on the side e.g brushing up on the basics of your probability and statistics, data structures and algorithms so that you can hit the ground running the moment you graduate! Best of luck! Whereabouts are you based in the world and where are you planning to apply to
I am a decent SWE and I am a junior right now. I am going to be interning at TIktok next summer. I only know DSA and some stats and did python plotting in linear algebra. Can I land a full time quant role by 2025 August?
This is honestly a goldmine. Thank you so much for this in-depth video! I plan to begin quant applications during the first quarter of next year. I'm seeking direction as to what role would be the best for me. I would love to obtain your insights. Is there a way I can reach out to you?
Thank you for the comment. It means a lot to know that my experience is valuable to others in the community. You can reach out to me at myquantitative@gmail.com and I will try my best to respond! @user-mx6nc4tn4e
Hey man, I absolutely loved the level of detail you went into with this. I'm quite a neurotic person as well so this appeals to me and I've found that so far I've been playing it shy (Not self-learning, not having a plan, just applying) and this video really motivated me to take it more seriously and plan better. Btw, how do you track the number of applications you applied to?
@Kishblockpro Thank you for the support and the appreciate the comment! Every little bit helps with the algorithm! I had fairly normal time in highschool. I did well (relative to others) in mathematics and sciences, although I had extra tuition classes, like many students back home. Outside of school, I spent a regrettably inordinate amount of time playing games on the computer. I have/had an interest in cars, which motivated me to study engineering at university. Whereabouts are you based and are you currently applying for quant roles/ preparing to apply for quant roles?
hey dude, i hear a lot of people without finance/trading background going into quant. what i'm confused about is, how do they land the job without the finance/trading background if the interview process involves finance/trading type assessments? Like Options Pricing theory & backtesting questions etc.
@fadedsedated You are correct. These job descriptions never explicitly state a preference for prior finance knowledge, but it is an open secret that plenty of prep work goes into tackling the interviews. The depth of knowledge expected for interviews isn't particularly deep at all, I find the more challenging aspect being the range of topics you could be questioned on. Many of my peers picked up this knowledge through intense self-study and self-exploration, interacting with alumni and seniors and taking part in industry-led events such as hackathons, trading competitions, prediction competitions. The intense competition for such roles, particularly at coveted firms, brings with it an increasingly higher bar for selection. While firms could, in theory, teach everything about finance to a brilliant STEM student, why not instead pick a STEM student who was committed enough to explore the topics themselves? It can be frustrating to read descriptions that say " Prior experience in finance is not required, we will teach you everything you need to know", employers would still pick the STEM student who was motivated enough to self-teach themselves. This is not exclusive to Quant roles, look at Investment Banking, Consulting, Private Equity, Hedge Funds, Software engineering, Data Science. There is no one university course that will equip you with everything you need for the job or the interview process. Hence, these roles do except people from a wide range of backgrounds, as long as they can survive the interview process.
@pengyipeng1661 Thank you for the support and I appreciate the comment! Every little bit helps the algorithm! Whereabouts are you based in the world? Are you currently preparing/in the midst of applying for quant roles? Always curious who are clicking on my videos!
@Ducky-zj7bn Fortunately/unfortunately, a lot more is required. Everyone here is at least, proficient in mathematics, more must be brought to the table :)
What's your view on the efficacy of Cambridge Part III Mathematics (taking probability, statistics, ML/DL, and combinatorics electives) for landing quant trading roles? I am not really interested in Quant Dev. Thanks!
@GauravK_ The fact that Part III is even available as an option already speaks to a high degree of mathematical ability and maturity, plus the Cambridge and Part III branding is about as strong of a branding and signaller for employers as possible. You're likely smart enough already and the Cambridge name (and specifically Part III) just adds a great packaging for your C.V. The way I see it, if you have not had prior work experience, the extra one-year will be useful for landing internships/applying to graduate roles. In terms of the knowledge, those fields will put you on the right track if you weren't already focusing on those in your prior degree, or your previous Parts at Cambridge. Whereabouts are you based in the world? Are you already a student at Cambridge?
thanks for the brilliant video. Do you think you would receive more offers if you weren't a non-EU citizen? I think quant companies are not eager to relocate employees to US/EU as FAANG do.
@atriusgodheart9088 If we are talking about roles in the EU, I likely would have gotten more responses from firms in the EU for sure. Internships and full-time roles (particularly for graduates) are tough to come by for Non-EU citizens in the EU as there are laws that prioritise EU citizens ( to my knowledge, any EU citizens please feel free to correct me on this!). A friend from the same course and I both applied to the Sauber F1 Team in Switzerland for an internship. He was progressed straight to the assessment whilst I received a lovely email explaining that they could not offer me, a non-EU citizen, even an internship. I think quant companies, particularly the established ones have all the budget for it, it's just a matter of finding the right talent and meeting any regulatory requirements. My lack of offers I would better attribute to the fact that I made this transition late in my university career (only choosing to do so after I graduated). So despite my university, I was no where near the ideal candidate compared with my other peers who committed to the quant route earlier in their university life. I also made some mistakes during my interviews and prep that costs me to be dropped at later stages. Interviews, much like standardised testing can favour some individuals more than others and I consider myself falling into the latter camp!
@prod.kashkari3075 Are there quants with an MS in Statistics, sure there are. As for it being common, I'm not sure. MFEs are a great way for aspiring quants to give their resume a "reset". They can leverage the opportunity of being a student again, opening up opportunities to valuable internships, networking opportunities and research experience. These add more finance/quant specific experience and knowledge, which can be valuable if one did not embark on prior internships or if your latest work experience do not bring much in transferrable skills. That being said, I know individuals, who have gotten roles as quants straight out of undergraduate, the commonality between them being: - a background in a STEM subject, most likely from a target school - some research experience (likely a combination of their thesis and other research opportunities that universities' offer) - prior internships in the industry/adjacent roles that demonstrate proficiency in the core quantitative skillsets (an analyst role, data scientist, software engineers etc) - strong interview prep and interview performance - a good story behind their interest in the industry or their transition into it - Lots of applications and good ol' luck and timing. A referral wouldn't hurt too :) In days of old, quants were exclusively PhDs from the top universities. However, as the industry grew and demand for the skills and roles increased, it is possible to be hired straight out of undergrad but it goes without saying, that it is ultra-competitive as an applicant. Not every quant ends up working on cutting edge alpha research, responsibilities can vary widely, some roles do require the expertise that a PhD/MFE should confer while others do not. I'm sure every firm would love to have exclusively PhDs working in every quant role but the feasibility of that is questionable, not to mention the benefits of training and retaining talented, bright and motivated individuals straight out of undergraduate
@@myquantitative I see, I fall into the bucket of working an adjacent role “data scientist” where I’m doing modeling/analysis etc but it’s not really related to finance. I’ve worked for 2 years here and thinking of trying to get into a quant role but I just wonder how 2 years working as a data scientist in a non finance setting is gonna impact me
@@prod.kashkari3075 It will impact you in so far as your ability to explain your transition story. What skills do you bring from your previous role that you think allow you to strive as a quant? What do you know about the industry and how did you go about learning more? Why do you want to move now? What motivated you? Assuming you have prepared and pass the standard quant interview process. Securing a quant role is possible. It's not going to be easy nor will you be seen as attractive as the traditional candidate described in my previous comment. Barring any exceptional talent or stellar reputation that you have in your current role/industry, you wont' be entering any of the top quant firms, but a smaller firm or perhaps an internship is still on the table. What matters is you putting that effort to get that first foot in the industry and making your way from there. It's not going to be easy by any stretch, as expected in any career switch.
Very informative video. Thank you. I have a question. I am a final year Computer Science & Engineering undergraduate. What path would you recommend me that would allow me to get into the quant industry?
Great video! I know you did not touch on degrees in the video, but as someone who has a BS in Comp Sci and has worked in IT Consulting for 2 years, what would you say is the best way to pivot into this? MFE or some other financial masters? Do you know if that would keep my options open for more traditional fundamental analyst roles or is it best to narrow into quant programs? My BS is non target, but maybe good enough to get into a target masters program.
@travisnabbefeld5974 Thank you for the comment! The safest way would be an MFE from a target school! Yes that would keep your options open, the caveat being you are able to interview well for the traditional fundamental analyst roles, which requires it's own set of preparation. Someone with a technical background (MFE and other rigorous STEM subjects) will still be able to obtain experience in the traditional fundamental analyst/IB roles assuming they interview well. The same however, cannot be said for individuals without STEM/MFE degrees, who, while able to apply for the traditional fundamental analyst/IB roles, will most certainly not be eligible for quant roles. If your BS is a non-target, it would be all the more paramount to get into a target/semi-target, since finance is elitist like that. Whereabouts are you based in the world?
Do you thinking doing engineering limited your application, and could have been the reason some companies didn’t take you as seriously as they should? Do you think that it’s as simple as if you had done CS you would ha hv be gotten more positive responses?
Hey man i love ur dedication. can u help me to figure out something iam persuing btech CSE (specialized in Data science) 2nd year, i want to get into quant, how can i get into? what degree should i persue for PG ? what kind of project are they looking for ? what roles can i apply and what skillset are they looking for a specific roles? and give me the most realisitc approach it would be nice if u can give a insight on it
hey so I am going to umd for cs and I plan to do their machine learning specialization. After wards I want to explore masters programs and then do quant stock trading. the only thing is I have heard that to do quant you need to be from a prestigious background. Umd is already top 20 for cs but Im thinking I need to do cargneie melon level of schools so do you have any info on this and tips for getting into masters. About to be a freshman in a month what can I do to get there?
That is a great video ! As an undergraduate engineer (3rd year), in want to chose a major between Data & AI or financial Engineering. To be honest I don’t know what to chose… It’s been a whole year of me not being able to decide on which way to go… I wanna work in finance but I don’t have a very good stress resiliency. So I think it’s better for me to start in informatics (data) and then maybe pursue in finance (with an mba?). What do you guys think ?
@blackshot_9269 Thank you for the comment, appreciate it! The financial engineering major sounds more put together and recognised than "Data & AI", which just gives off the "universities-hoping-on-the-AI-trend-to-make-a-profit-from-students" vibe. If you're looking to work at the cutting-edge of AI as a researcher, you should be looking at a PhD and even then it will still be competitive. An undergraduate degree will likely have you working in MLOps or as a Data Scientist. That being said, I've also mostly heard of financial engineering as a post-graduate course rather than undergraduate. Popular ones that come to mind are UC Berkeley's MFE and Columbia's MSFE. Unfortunately, stress is a feature not a bug when working in finance.That's a question you have to answer for yourself. Not everyone is cut out for finance and that's ok, there are many ways to earn a living in this world besides working for the suits and ties. If you're specifically interested in quant finance, I'm not sure how an MBA is going to benefit you at all. If you're looking at roles in IB, PE and VCs, that will be valuable but definitely not for quant finance.
Just began this process and I'm terrified I will never get anything. Are there any other relevant jobs I can apply for in the meantime to build up experience?
Thanks for the video! It was very informative and insightful for people like me. May I ask how you wrote the motivation letters some firms were asking? Did you wrote one general letter and changed up the firms name before submitting, or did you write a specific letter for each of your 415 applications?
Thank you! @thierryrioual701 Appreciate the comment, it's great to know my experience will keep providing values for those that will come before me. I wrote one general letter i.e. 90% of the content was the exact same paragraphs copy and pasted. The roles I was applying for were designated as Quant Researcher/Quant Analyst/Desk Quant. The core skillsets are the same across most quant roles (with the exception of Quant Developer since these guys are essentially software engineers, to my knowledge, there is nothing particular Quant-y about a Quant Dev other than the fact they may be building quant-specific projects). Since the core skillsets are the same and are what you should be highlighting and elaborating on in your cover letters. I drafted a single template that demonstrated these core skills and copy and pasted them for every application. I only changed out the addresses at the top and the first paragraph of my cover letters. I spent basically no time on cover letters once the template was set. From my interviews, I never once had any interviewer bring up my cover letter, they at most, had my C.V. in front of them and asked questions from there. Would you, and anyone else reading this comment, like a video where I share this template? It's short, sweet and to the point, making it adaptable to anyone and I believe, any job application you may have in general!
@@myquantitative Hey thankyou so much for guiding. Some of us couldn't go to reputed Universities or get proper guidance. I personally would be grateful to you if you could share as many resources as possible. Thanks again.
Thank you Prakhar for the comment! Are you currently preparing for your quant interviews as well? Let me know what topics you are most interested in seeing regarding the interview/career/industry
Hi @@myquantitative, I want to get into Quant Strategist role>> or Quant Developer role, So can you give the detailed roadmap for that? Also I want to ask will my educational background will create a hinderance if I had done my Bacholers in CSE from Tier 3 college? Thanks in advance:)
@MrAcenit I encountered questions on Options Price Theory in a couple of my interviews but it wasn't my strong point. Options Pricing Theory is a popular topic within quant finance interviews because there are many quant roles that require working with options and other derivatives. This is particularly true of sell-side roles at investment banks or trading firms, since these are the assets that the firm/teams will be selling, pricing and trading. On the other hand, I have encountered interviews with no questions on options pricing theory, whether in the in-person or online assessments. In general, if the quant role revolve around being an "alpha" quant, about devising trading strategies, it seems like topics such as machine learning, time-series modelling, backtesting knowledge and general statistical modelling practices will be much more relevant as compared to options pricing and stochastic calculus. On a side note, thank you for the support and I appreciate the comment! Every little bit helps the algorithm! Whereabouts are you based in the world? Are you currently preparing/in the midst of applying for quant roles? Always curious who are clicking on my videos!
I’ve got a placement offer to do quant research at state street for 13 months (industrial placement) but I’m unsure how good it is as it’s doing quant at an asset manager. Do you know if this is any good and what future career prospects may look like based on this?
@jameshelm7015 Any experience is good experience in general. You are not strictly siloed to the type of firm you did your internship/placement at. Your ability to move also depends on your eagerness to learn and grow. If that's the only offer you have, it is better than none. If there's still time to apply/in the process of other better ones (HFs, Prop shops), definitely gun for those if the work/expectations there interest you more. That being said, Asset managers are the slower moving firms of the buy-side. They have more conservative mandates (no shorts or volatile strategies) and longer investment horizons, so don't expect to be working on short-term strategies or HFT-related projects at all. Salaries are not the eye-watering numbers you expect at HFs/Prop shops but still respectable, the pace of life is slower too. Don't discount stability! I wouldn't worry too much at this point. Focus on doing well and learning as much as you can and hopefully secure a return offer (always great to have one of these in the bag). If you're doing placements, you're likely still a student so if you decide to shoot for HFs and Prop shops, you can always prepare and apply to those after you're done with this placement. Congratulations on your offer!
Thanks for the comment @NeerajKumar-gk9kz , Establishing the context that finance in general (quant or not) is inherently an elitist industry, given that one is not from a top university (or at a university that is known for the rigour of your programme) and without a great C.V, breaking into a quant role right out the gate from university, your chances are slim at best without contacts. That being said, quants enter the industry at various stages, your best bet would be to break into adjacent roles, getting some experience before attempting to break into the quant world. Such roles include data scientists, software engineers and other types of analyst roles in STEM industries that involve working with times series data, statistical analysis of data with a heavy emphasis on programming (ideally to a professional level and not just spaghetti code, such as those we tend to write in university assignments). The doors are NOT shut, especially if you have a STEM background and your work experience has transferrable skills. Get the right experience after university, craft your C.V well and learn to tackle quant interviews and a quant role sometime in the future is definitely still on the cards! If money is not an issue or if you plan your finances well, many embark on an MFE graduate degree. That opens up opportunities for research work and internships (which firms are more receptive to if you are a student again). If you do both, your chances of breaking into a quant role will likely just be resting on your interview skills. All the best Neeraj!
@@user-ne8lj3cf5q Honestly, from the consensus I get online, I question whether it would even be worth it (in both time and monetary) commitments to get an MFE from a non-target. If those were my only options, I would spend the time and money trying to land some relevant experience via internships in relevant and adjacent roles and leveraging those to either get a return offer or continue applying for full-time roles. Note that these internships wouldn't be through the regular internship pipelines available to undergrads. Rather, cold emailing to smaller firms and such. That being said, if you are lucky enough to have time and money not be a constraint but are unable to get into a target school for an MFE, pick the next best school. Just understand that you cannot count on the branding of your school (no one should in my opinion, regardless of being a target or non-target), rather you should be doubling down on leveraging the opportunities afforded to being a student again i.e. internships, research opportunities at university and the time commitment for interview prep All the best!
@michaeladams4999 They definitely do! But as with many things, with practise and regular exposure, it gets less and less intimidating once you begin to spot the "patterns" within interviews. It definitely takes time but remember, no sacrifice, no victory :) Are you planning to apply for quant roles in the future?
I'm in the us. I'm not thinking of becoming a quant it seems too difficult to get into. However, I randomly connected with one and the stories I've heard are absolutely wild, the math skills are impressive and the wealth is extreme.. @@myquantitative
@circlejerkatz Quants come in all flavours, not all of us are paid the eye-watering salaries/commissions but those come with a degree of job instability as well. We do command a respectable salary and some roles are more stable than others. Of course those quants get all the limelight as well hence the impression of the industry.
@mikahjohnas1217 I'm going to be honest that your current chances are near slim to none. Your best bet is to get yourself back to school (hopefully a target) to reset your chances for internships/graduate roles.
@mrnoble3896 Yes it will, this is the typical path for individuals looking to make the transition. who lack a sufficiently transferable skillset to enter an entry level quant role e.g. engineers. Assuming you have a sufficiently strong mathematics background (ideally from a prior STEM degree), the MFE will serve as a "second chance", equipping you with a more focus set of quantitative finance knowledge and most importantly, allowing you to be considered as a student again and apply for the coveted internships and research experience. With this refreshed C.V. in-hand, coupled with some months of interview prep, you should be able to land an entry-level quant role. Will the role be at a top-firm with the famous eye-watering compensations? That's another question and also a function of how hard you push yourself! Whereabouts are you based in the world!
You are super smart guy and properly switched on, except for one thing, you chose a wrong strategy. With immense knowledge of math and x4 months of time investment you should had got yourself some data and then focu those x4 months to find a working strategy. If you walked into that quant firm with a working cash machine they'll put you straight into the seat, you won't even see HR manager.
Hello, i’m starting BSc mathematics at the University of Nottingham next week and have interest in becoming a quant. If i finish my course and then go onto a masters at oxbridge lse or warwick do you think i have a chance?
make sure you apply to many spring weeks now, put finance/quant related stuff on ur cv like societies, trading competitions, personal finance projects, apply to many spring weeks and do multiple if u can, make sure ur cv format is good, get good at the interviews, 2nd year apply to quant/trading internships, nottingham isnt oxbridge but its a semi target so u should have no problems
Thank you for the comment @CosmicBarrilet Indeed, great interview advice span the gamut of industries and careers! Are you currently interviewing for a new role as an accountant?
Hello, I am starting my research into applying for a Quant Analyst job in USA. I am completing my MSc in FInancial Engineering from WorldQuant University. Do you think online masters has any chance of landing a job?
@SilverBalverine I won't sugar coat the truth but the chances of landing a quant role with an online masters will be slim to none. The quant world and the wider finance industry is elitist in it's selection criteria. There are already plenty of graduates from the top institutions competing for the roles. Your best bet is to attend a full-time in-person MSc programme at a known university. All the best!
I agree! Especially in the tech industry, 300-400 applications are the norm now! Although some candidates do get discouraged due to outliers, when what they are going through is normal, so it helps to be open about numbers.
how to have degree in multiple engg domains at the same time? please guide me I have interest in multiple engg domains and I want to have knowledge and skillset to become an entrepreneur
@rajarshibarman4474 Unfortunately, I cannot help you here. While having multiple interests in commendable, my advice would be to pick one field and get good at it before branching out, all the best
Great video. I have a MSc Financial Mathematics, but so far no luck. I know it's a little forward, but can you mentor me please? I'm lost and very close to give up.
Thank you for the comment @6Ligma Drop me an email with your C.V at myquantitative@gmail.com I'm incredibly busy with work at the moment so I will try my best to respond! Looking forward to hearing back from you
@@myquantitative I’m not sure what the secrecy is for. This is far more educational if you would actually say. You’ve applied for so many jobs it’s clearly not Oxbridge, LSE, Imperial or UCL. Warwick’s course is very good. So either Bristol/KCL. No shame in admitting either
Do you have any discord channel? I have few questions, Which college you graduated from? How to make our profile in a way to get accepted to your college? Any prerequisite.
No I do not have a discord channel, @prakhar_agarwal I graduated from one of the Russell Group universities in the UK, one that has a strong focus on STEM subjects. The pre-requisites are the same for any highly ranked university: Great pre-university grades, a compelling cover letter and interviewing well (if invited for one)
@@myquantitativeno i got picked up while being in college. Quant firms organize annual competitions. I won one such competition with rank 1 in the world.
@@HonestReviewers What a C.V. you must have had. Were you always aiming to be a quant even before college. Salute to you. Classic quant profile right here. Do you see yourself staying in the industry or do you have plans to move on eventually.
@@myquantitative No i randomly stumbled upon the competition. Did not knew anything about Finance but I went through one of the world’s toughest exam (search JEE Advanced) so my Maths was really strong. I translated that skill into Quant by quickly picking up the basic finance terminologies i needed to understand for the sake of the competition. I am open to Data Science roles if I get a higher pay offer. Although in the past whenever I got an offer my current employer has matched the amount and kept me from switching
@bhadbhris I don't blame you. It is a hyper competitive and elitist industry. And the pay can still differ from role to role, and more importantly, between geographies.
@StevenEwaldGFX For sure, my less than conventional background and late transition definitely barred me from the top firms. Just grateful to get a foothold in the industry and looking forward to growing within the role
@Mastercane98 Thank you, I eventually received and accepted an offer at a buy-side firm. Nothing shiny like Jane Street or Citadel in New York making a billion per minute, but ultimately a foothold within the industry nevertheless and still a job (especially in this economy). Learnt lots and plenty more to go. From here on, it is down to me to learn and grow and push myself should I so wish.
@tear728 Quant roles can vary in compensation depending on the country, type of role, type of firm and most importantly responsibility (The biggest one being, do you have your own book and PnL?). The higher the compensation, the higher the risks involved (lose money for long enough and you're out the door)
If you have been rejected over 400 times maybe you should consider different path of your career? McDonalds perhaps? I don't want to sound mean but every potential employee when see you videos on YT... what they gonna think about you. It's weird to brag about losing 400 times in the row. Imagine playing CS:GO and dying over 400 times without single kill. Every sane person would say 'it's not for me, I am out'.
Hedge fund is a very competitive area, plus he is an international student, it is very likely that he got rejected automatically due to sponsorship reasons regardless of how qualified he is and what the positions are. It is very common to get rejected for 99%of the roles in hedge fund.
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This guy who did an undergrad research on Machine learning in Finance did 300+ apps and only got 1 offer? Damn we’re cooked.
@dr.woozie7500 Meh, don't hype up my research that much. In the words of my professor, most undergrad research amounts to nothing, they are merely chances for undergrads to experience research. Bear in mind, my untraditional background coupled with my late transition and preparation, I am not the Ideal Candidate #1, hardly the sort of candidate Jane Street or Citadel are begging to sign up. Fortunately, the quant industry is bigger than just the biggest names on the street and fortunately, life is long and I am grateful for having secured my foothold and am enjoying my time growing within the industry
Wow, I’m pretty speechless by how much information you’ve provided and the extremely detailed replies you’re giving everyone. Thank you so much for this
@Anthony-mt1gp
I almost feel a responsibility to guide others who may come after me. Thank you for the comment! It inspires me to keep pushing the boundaries on the value this channel can provide to the community in the long-run, so that others will not face the ambiguity I felt during my applications
Whereabouts are you based in the world? Are you currently applying/preparing to apply for quant roles?
@@myquantitative I’m actually 17 and I pretty recently found out about a career as a quant. I definitely agree about the ambiguity, I’ve seen a lot of conflicting information, so it’s been hard to find out what I actually need to do to get the job as well as the stuff I’d be doing day to day.
I live on the west coast of the US and I’m currently in my second year of an early college program, where I take all of my classes at my local community college to finish high school and get college credits I can transfer. I’ve been taking lots of math classes and I plan on majoring in statistics when I transfer.
I won’t be applying for roles for a while, but do you have any advice about the things I can do now to increase my chances of getting a quant job later on?
Also, I have some questions that I haven’t been able to get a clear answer to since I’ve started researching this career.
1. I’ve seen people say you can get a job as a quant with just a bachelors degree, but mostly I’ve seen that a masters is basically required and a phd is preferred, how does it really work?
2. Could I get a job as a quant by getting a bachelors degree and starting off with a different job, and using that experience to help me get the job or is it better to just get a masters degree?
3. If I do get a masters degree, is an MFE the best choice, and would it have to be from a top school?
Sorry about making this so long, but like you said there definitely is a lot of ambiguity in this field. Thank you so much when you get to this!
@Anthony-mt1gp I can only wish I had your sense of clarity and direction when i was 17!
1) It is not unheard of but one should not expect it to happen. Such opportunities are available to exceptional undergraduates (think target school, STEM course (ideally CS, mathematics), stellar grades, strong research experience, demonstrated interest in the industry). Not all undergraduates or masters are made equal. It all boils down to the individual but as a general rule, a masters and above are the norm. There are absolutely brilliant undergraduates out there, whereas I have met individuals on my masters year that I would not trust to work a stove. The preference for PhDs boils down to how the quant industry began, when Wall Street began to computerise. Firms needed individuals who were strong programmers and adept in mathematics and naturally began looking to universities, filled with researchers with PhDs in CS, physics or engineering who were bored and looking for a new job to put their skills to use. Naturally, these first hires preferred their own when hiring. Overtime, as the industry grew, the supply and expectation of these roles grew and quant jobs also began to stratify in complexity and responsibilities. Now, not every role requires a PhD. Some firms may explicitly require PhDs for specific roles (think AI research scientist) whilst others are willing to interview an individual as long as their C.V. demonstrates exceptional technical capabilities, regardless of them having a Bachelors, Masters or PhD. Masters are now preferred because in general, the masters degree will be the first time a student partakes in research work. Undergraduates are not expected to have experience with research. Some firms can explicitly state they don't expect any prior knowledge of the industry, the caveat being you have to be intelligent to pass the screening stages which means you can and are fully expected to pick up new knowledge quickly on the job.
An MFE is also used as a reset for those who have already been working for sometime in their fields (Data scientists, SWEs, engineers, researchers and many others). Typically an MFE at a target, this equips them with more finance specific knowledge and "resets" their C.V. in the eyes of the employer, giving them a valuable network and also time to apply for internships/placements/graduate roles.
tldr 1: Yes it does occur but for exceptional undergraduates.
2) Not unheard of, but it works best if the different job is still adjacent to the industry with regards to skillsets. Think Data Scientists, Software Engineers, Statisticians, AI researchers, ML engineers. The tricky part will be getting enough relevant experience that demonstrates you have the technical ability, packaging this experience in a C.V., applying to as many roles as possible, selling this story to your interviewer and passing through the various hoops of the interview process. From the video you can tell that a decent amount of prep work is required. This will be challenging to say the least, especially while juggling a full-time job. Hence why going back to school (if you can afford it) is an easy but expensive way to buy yourself some extra time whilst also adding a newer packaging to your C.V. with an MFE.
3) An MFE from a target is the safest, tried and tested method into quant roles. But don't forget that the MFE+target school branding gets you the interviews, passing through them requires effort on your part.
tldr 2: MFEs from a target reset your C.V, opening up opportunities for placements/interns/graduate roles, equips you with more directly applicable knowledge that could be useful for specific roles, provide valuable networking, research and recruiting resources as well as time, This gets you through most firms initial filtering layer. The remainder of the application process is down to your prep.
tldr 3: Just demonstrate technical smarts and interview well
I hope this is clearer. Thank you once again for your support of the channel and sharing more about your background and concerns. I hope to hear back from you :)
8 rounds, what the hell... What if someone already has a job, what are they supposed to do, take a week off.
@joesilver75
Definitely on the higher end but it happens! It varies with the firm and likely the seniority of the role as well. At a graduate/entry level (where I was), there are plenty of hungry candidates hence the layers of filtering.
Unfortunately, as with many other industries the number of rounds has increased over the years and will just keep increasing as more people get into higher education and gun for these roles. Hell, even internship applications can be competitive at some firms!
Taking a week off just for one application, imagine if one has multiple live applications, good luck finding the time for those
They want to only get desperate people at the end. At least they're sure they won't leave lol.
Quite the opposite@@w花b . Median tenure for jobs is about 2.5 / 3 years.
@antithesis3171 just ambitious people who do this every few years, or does being headhunted help you get out of all these rounds?
8 rounds is rookie numbers. I’ve had a quant firm do 12
So basically.
Step-1:Go to oxford/cambridge/the most elite universities in UK
Step-2:Refer Step-1
@-BarathKumarS
And that’s just to get your C.V. through the door! Next you have to survive whatever number of rounds they decide to throw at you!
It’s like LeetCoding for SWE roles, attending Stanford for CS does not immediately make you a genius at LeetCoding, everyone has to pay their dues to the interview grind unfortunately
University degrees are to a good degree the most expensive HR pre-screen people pay. Going to these places proves you're of a certain class and have at least a minimum level of aptitude. I'm adjacent in a hedge fund, and it's shocking how everyone is white or asian. A few women scattered in between. No middle-class people, except external contractors like myself. The secret backdoor into these places is via outsourcing contracting. Also, quite a few hires seem to be just based on whom they like.
@@daysofend
Elitism in finance is well known. Previously it used to be just going to any university. Then it became going to a target. Then it become going to the right course in the target. Then it become the right course in the right target and the right prep work, the right internship, the right networking events... and the list goes on and on and on!
All the money and effort to enter a target just so a single box can be ticked by HR, one of a growing number of boxes. The use of targets also favours inherited meritocracy, those whose parents did well for themselves can afford the resources to prep one to qualify for admittance into these targets, the cycle then repeats.
This is happening across the board for careers labelled as "prestigious". I shudder to think how the hiring will look like in a decade. Kids will need internships in high school at this rate!
@@myquantitative IMO medalists have been a thing for years. It can't go much further back than that. Top positions have been filled by IMO and Putnam participants. I think that prospective applicants will need to bring in their own PnL.
I don't think just being smart and a graduate is good enough in a maturing field. Building your own trading setup and proving you built a working strategy is, in my opinion, the next bar. "Rockstar employees" are also less common. I've done hiring interviews before, and there's an increasing interest in collaboration skills over individual brilliance. I believe trends may reverse a bit more the main mass of quants and adjacents.
The pool of graduates is not large enough to fill the rising need for programmers. Some companies are already creating different "tiers", and the low end of these will be much easier to get into if you put in the effort. Once in, you may be able to move laterally. I think things will get easier and harder at the same time. A paper and an internship are not enough when there are another half a million graduates as well per year.
@@myquantitative kids already have high school internship mate lol,i saw around 10 kids admitted to bio tech programs in ivy leagues and holy fking shit they all have research internships from pfizer,johnson & johnson,abbvie etc and also worked at a lab in an R1 University.
Every single one of the 10 people have a profile that any biotech major would have coming out of school,not getting into school.
I got in touch with all of them and you can pretty much guess how they got all of this stuff in their resume,their parents are comfortably upper class working jobs like venture capitalists/neurosurgeon/tech consultant while some parents have jobs as University professors in R1 schools and have spent $50,000 or so in elite prep schools grinding for grades along with mentorship from top tutors.
Not one of them come from a poor background, all of them are privileged so can maixmize their credentials and add that with ivy league programs they are gonna attend it's almost impossible for anyone to compete with these people.
Imagine thinking as a clueless kid with average SAT scores and not so impressive extra curriculars graduating from a school in the middle of nowhere(which is really 90% of the app pool because you have no connections or neither rich to afford tutors or anything as a matter of fact,even grades are useless cause every school only cares about extracurriculars),he is gonna get crushed like the little cockroach he is.
My brain just exploded in half when i saw the profile of a MIT mechanical engineering student's maker portfolio (got scholarship too),the work he did in highschool is comparable to graduate thesis projects which makes me wonder why they even need to go to college in the first place and once gain his parents are filthy rich(Dad is ceo of a consultancy firm with harvard MBA)
I feel sorry for kids 10 years from now,i think this is also one of the reasons why I'm not having kids.
Ok but enough of rambling,just frustrated at the moment.
/endofrant.
I never leave comments, but after reading this video, I feel you are beyond deserving of one. I hope it boosts the algorithm in your favor, one way or another.
@codewithmicah-18 Comments like these mean the world to me, it inspires me to keep pushing the boundaries of what this channel can become! Are you currently applying/planning to apply for quant roles? Whereabouts are you based in the world?
I'm not even looking for quant jobs but i still stayed back and watched your entire video cus it was so well structured and definitely helpful.
@FaagunS
Thank you for the support and appreciate the comment! Every little bit helps with the algorithm!
Whereabouts are you based? Always curious to know where my viewers are from!
Good job on the video! I am coming from construction industry myself and i was working really hard to get a job as a pricing actuary in the insurance now. I can totally agree, applying to similar positions which would give your opportunity to get another set of skills is necessary. Unfortunately i learned this all to late my self. And about the "better degree"... Sure it helps to have relevant degree, however i did civil engineering and then every and sustainability. London is a place where you can become anything at long as your have the right mindset! I would get up at 5am myself and study statistics, programming, machine learning and do applications in the evening. Hire cv consultants (people who actually sit with your and consult, not just get back with a final result), they are really worth it.
@prison9865 Thank you for the comment and sharing your story about your transition, I hope others reading get inspired by your tenacity and grit. Are you currently based in London yourself?
Even though this video has no direct relevance to me as a non-STEM student, this video was brilliant. Extremely informative and is full of insights that are no doubt useful for many industries. Excellent work and congratulations on the offer!
@benz Thank you! What industry are you in and are you currently in the midst of your job applications as well?
@@myquantitative My pleasure! For me, it's the legal industry. Thankfully, I've managed to secure a training contract but it was one hell of a process. What you shared here seems to echo a lot with some of what I experienced in my search. Even though I wasn't looking for a TC with the top-dog firms such as those within the 'Magic Circle' etc., quite a few of my peers are. I found it interesting that a lot of what you talked about in terms of what you did well and what you could have done better were things that my peers who have been successful in getting those TCs have done.
This really was a brilliant video and is definitely useful for anyone trying to break into competitive industries!
@@benz. Wow, has the number of rounds of interviews and assessments steadily increased over the years as well? I shudder to consider how the expectations of candidates will change over a 5, 10 and 20 year horizon@
@@myquantitative I thought this would be a relatively simple question to answer but I got a bit carried away, and have in turn produced quite a lengthy response which you're under no obligation to read! I'll try and summarise a bit here by saying, possibly yes, but there is now far more emphasis on quality instead of quantity. The rounds of interviews and assessments are definitely a big hurdle, but the number of rounds you must go through isn't necessarily the biggest barrier, albeit, they are a significant one.
Anyway, here's my essay 🤣:
It's hard for me to say really. From speaking to those who qualified and have been working as solicitors for a while now, it was tough getting a job decades ago, and on quite a few occasions some have remarked about how they had sent close to a hundred applications for jobs to finally land one.
I think it’s fair to say that in times gone by, it was very much a quantity process, throw enough darts at the wall and eventually one will stick. Nowadays, from day one, you must be in the know and acute to the process and must prioritise quality.
As a bit of background, lifting this straight from a site, “[t]here are around 5,500 training contracts available every year. The Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) reveal that 33,235 students finished studying a law degree in 2018/19, with this being split as 12,755 being postgraduate and 20,480 being undergraduate.” That being the case, the law market is heavily saturated. But as I mentioned previously, you must be ‘in the know and acute to the process,’ specifically that directly applying for a training contract isn’t necessarily the way to land a training contract.
From day one as a Law undergrad, you need to be applying for First Year schemes such as ‘Insight Schemes.’ These don’t necessarily lead to a training contract, but firms run these schemes to identify talent early on, and they can lead to training contracts, see for example: the Clifford Chance SPARK scheme. If your foot is not in the door from day one, your chances of securing a training contract slowly diminish. Vacation Schemes seem to increasingly be the way law firms select people for training contracts, and competition is fierce. It is important to note that these schemes, be it Insight Schemes or Vacation Schemes, all require an incredible amount of application crafting to get on to.
You can expect telephone and video interviews, online tests, and assessment centres, just to get on to the Vacation Scheme which even then, doesn’t guarantee a training contract. Applying directly for a training contract has the same lengthy process of hurdles to overcome.
Essentially, the odds are stacked against you if you want to get a training contract - as with any other competitive industry really. Those who go through their undergraduate years and complete a law degree and still haven’t secured a training contract often consider self-funding their post-graduate training. Before 2021, the post-graduate course for lawyers was called the Legal Practice Course (LPC). The LPC still exists as an option for those who commenced their degrees/were offered a place before September 2021, but it has now been replaced by the SQE, the Solicitors Qualifying Examination which was brought in by the Solicitor’s Regulatory Authority (SRA) to reform the routes to qualification, essentially making it easier to become a solicitor. I won’t get into that whole discussion in this comment but the SQE and its implications are… interesting. I will only mention that the LPC had/has a better pass rate than the SQE, but how that’s all quantified is a bit complex. I can get into that another time if you wish, but it’s just worth noting for now.
In 2018-20, the LPC only had around 20-24% of students being funded by their employers, the rest of course being students who have ‘self-funded’ the LPC. I think it is fair to say that most students who self-funded the LPC did so to become a more attractive applicants, i.e.: they have continued their professional development at their own cost (so the employer doesn’t need to pay) and that they can commence a training contract (the important part being the 2 years of qualifying work experience needed to become a solicitor) straight away. This is a gamble on their part, especially when considering the course usually costs around £16k. This gamble doesn’t always pay off.
So the current landscape consists of grinding away at crafting applications to get your foot in the door for schemes that don’t necessarily lead to training contracts, or applying to them directly. But these schemes are now HUGELY important to landing a training contract. Once your application is sent off, you’re expected to go through stages of interviews, online tests, and assessment centres to get on to these schemes. Even if you’re applying directly for the training contract, you’re still doing these interviews, online tests, and assessment centres. All the while, for each firm you apply to, you must have researched every inch of it to ensure that you ‘know your stuff.’ I haven’t mentioned until now, but as you’re focusing on quality, you’re realistically only applying to around 5-10 firms, so the research and refinement required quickly adds up. You’re doing all of this to try and secure a training contract in which the firm pays for your post-grad training (the LPC or SQE). If you don’t get a training contract, you might decide to invest your own money into self-funding the post-grad training which is a further cost sunk into your desire to become a solicitor, and even then, there’s no guarantee that after several more rounds of applications (i.e. years) that you will get a training contract.
So in terms of how many interviews and assessments you must go through, it perhaps hasn’t changed much, but the effort required alongside the chance of securing a TC has (in my view) placed considerably more expectations on students than there has been for previous cohorts.
Regarding how this might change in the next few years, the SQE has been introduced to make it a bit easier to become a Solicitor. The route under the SQE looks like this:
1. Have a qualifying law degree - so an accredited LLB or a non-law degree + a conversion known as the GDL
2. Take the SQE examinations
3. Have 2 years of qualifying work experience (QWE)
4. Enroll as a Solicitor.
Now, the first part of that is standard and has been for years.
The second part gets interesting. The SQE is two exams (SQE1 + SQE2) which cost £1,798 and £2,766 respectively. Chances are, you’re not taking these without taking a prep course which is an additional cost to the exams, or are doing an LLM which provides SQE prep and allows you to get a Masters's degree alongside it (similar to the LPC courses which can be an LLM in Legal Professional Practice, or MSc in Law, Business and Management). This is all extra cost in addition to the exam fees - which you have to pay extra to resit, unlike the LPC.
The third part is even more interesting. The whole purpose of a training contract at a firm is that it provides two years of qualifying work experience for you to become a Solicitor. This has now changed, and the SRA (I do apologise for the insane amounts of acronyms I’ve used) has made it much easier to get this work experience. According to the SRA, the following ‘time spent’ can be used as QWE: a placement during a law degree, working in a law clinic, at a voluntary or charitable organisation or a law centre, working as a paralegal, or on a training contract.
That means that people who have completed the examinations and have worked as a paralegal for 2 years can now, technically, become a Solicitor. This is supposed to lower the high barriers to entry into the profession. But the question of whether or not a person who is now a qualified solicitor using say, paralegal experience, would be able to join a firm and climb up the ranks, is to be seen. I guess I’ll put my doubts on the record here.
Either way, the SQE has definitely shaken things up; but the traditional route of going through a training contract is, in my opinion, here to stay. And if the number of legal grads continues to rise, it will only become even harder within the next 5, 10, or 20 years, despite the SRA’s interventions.
so many hops to jump, back in the day firm handshake was enough to get a job
@javaman8844 oh the good ol' days, when we could walk into the lobby, bump into the CEO, shake his hand and hand him our C.V in the lift, crack a joke or two, and start the next day. The game has changed, so we have to adapt the best we can!
Very useful and well thought-out video. Thank you
@h4ck314 Thank you! Are you also intending to apply for quant roles? If so, whereabouts in the world are you based?
going through the same process, really got discouraged by non-response, it's like my existence is meaningless in this world.
@andychan9585 I completely understand mate. It is brutal. Unfortunately, not all of us are Math whizzes who get inundated with offers from Jane Street and Citadel. It's a grind, like any other job application process. Power through!
Thank you for this content !
@paulaugis Appreciate the comment Paul! Are you currently applying for quant roles? Whereabouts are you based?
@@myquantitative Yes I am currently applying for trading, structuring and quant junior roles. I am based in Paris and looking for positions in Paris, London and Hong Kong ! :)
Good content - i would also add markets, particurly for the buy side. Im a quant researcher in a team that trades equities so I had questions on equity valuation, investment ideas, stock pitch, macro environment etc. For high-frequency teams u might get microstructure questions too, like limit order book structure, bid-ask dynamics etc.
Agree with the predictions too - 90% of my job is working with data. Super important
thanks man, that was realy supporting to not only see people having instant success. Its a marathon not a sprint, your are damn right.
@jeae9063 Thank you for your support and kind comment.
The quant industry always had a air of mysticism, prestige and glamour surrounding it. It is almost always associated with the stereotypical mathematics prodigy, Math/Physics/Informatics Olympiad winner who attends MIT for mathematics and CS and makes half a billion dollars every nanosecond at Jane Street/Citadel.
While the above character is no outlier, they do indeed exists at top universities around the world and can command eye-watering compensations, but so are the quants that make up the remaining roles that require a quantitative skillset. I fall into the latter camp, just a former engineering graduate looking to explore his curiosities but also seeking above average compensation (like everyone else). My current role and location will certainly never see me draw salaries that come close to the one described above but it is still a step on a long journey, which I hope to share more via this channel as I go, and if I am lucky, one or two that come before me will be a little wiser as a result.
A previous comment mentioned how the sheer number of applications I had to submit was an indication that I wasn't cut out for this industry. Perhaps so, but the same goes to anyone else trying to make a switch. In which case, I wish that individual all the best, and pray that each path they walk was perfect from the get go.
Just found your channel! Keep posting, love it
@HunterGallagherGL2 Appreciate the comment! Are you currently applying for quant roles? Whereabouts are you based?
Hey I just wanted to say that I think that you providing all of the lessons that you've learnt along the way really help students looking to take the leap into quant finance. I wish that your channel existed when I started applying for roles about a year ago.
I trust that implementing the last year of feedback from firms, experience solving the problems similar to the ones on your channel and using your channel as a talking point in interviews will (almost) surely secure you your dream role in quant finance.
@plainjulien Thank you Julien for the comment! It's heartwarming to know my experience will continue to help future applicants!
What other videos would you think will be valuable for future applicants?
This was very detailed and informative! Thanks a lot for creating this.
@nipunikalnu8645 Thank you for the comment.
Are you currently applying/planning to apply for quant roles? Whereabouts are you based in the world?
Let me know if you want any particular videos, e.g. reviewing my C.V., cover letter, questions to ask interviewers
@@myquantitative hey yes. I am based in India and I have an year of FANG experience as an SDE. However firms in India only hire quants from very specific colleges and unfortunately I’m not from one of those colleges(still graduated from a pretty good uni tho). So I’m looking for quant firms in EU. I only have a bachelors in engineering and most firms seem to be asking for a masters equivalent. How common is it for firms to hire quants with just a bachelors?
In terms of content, I would be truly grateful if you could:
1. Make more videos about the holistic interview experience(similar to how there are a lot of mock interviews for SWE roles) plus it would be a great added bonus if you could tell us how to find more interview experiences of other people(a platform similar to leetcode discuss bc I couldn’t find anything for quant roles)
2. Data processing. This is more of a personal request and idk how much your lowest common denominator audience would benefit from it but I haven’t seen any data processing questions in any interview experiences so idk what to expect plus I’ve never explicitly studied that.
3. How to actually apply to jobs? Ik you cover a lot of the basics in this video but if we could get a deep dive into how you searched for jobs, the online resources you used for your job search, if you dropped off any personalised notes to the hiring managers, I’m sure we will all rly appreciate that.
Again, thanks for making such quality content. There are few creators who are clarifying the whole process of getting a job in a quant role and you are definitely one of the most quality content creators among them :)
@nipunikalnu8645
Quant firms do increasingly have roles open to bachelors but the caveat being they have to be exceptional bachelor students, typically showing strong research experience. It is this requirement that has made this industry historically a stronghold for PhD holders, with the minimum now often being a masters degree as you have discovered.
Thank you for the content suggestions. Those are a goldmine! I am keen to produce those! There are just so many possibilities!
I look forward to continue providing value for the community!
I am trying to get into quant right now, I'm an Msc Finance right now this is going to help me a lot
@adityaambler Thank you for commenting! All the best for your applications! Remember, you only need one!
Hey this is so helpful and in depth, exactly what i was looking for!! I’m currently an entry level swe with not even a full year of experience, and was contemplating switching to quant researcher type of role and this has given me a lot of clarity. Thank you very much!
@armalekhan7026 Thank you for the comment and congratulations on your new role as an SWE. I'm glad to know my experience has proven useful to others. Whereabouts are you based in the world and what is your academic background?
I need some guidance...
1. I'm currently pursuing a Business degree, although I was a STEM student in high school. Even now, my minor is in computer science, and many of my other subjects are statistics-based.
2. I am not enrolled in some top tier college or university.
3. I aspire to be a Quant. Even though, I recently learned about this field, I've always been fascinated by numbers. Mathematics, to me, is a language in itself, and I want to be one of those who translate the stories that numbers tell to people who don't quite understand them. So, When people asked me what I wanted to do, I told them about the role of a quant, and now I simply say, "I want to be a Quant."
I know that passion and interest are important, but I need something concrete. I need to develop my mathematical and programming skills, as well as my financial knowledge. So, I need some help.
Could you tell me what I can work on to increase my chances? And, more importantly, is it even possible for a non-STEM student like me?
What I would do is to find a relevant intro to quant finance course online (Even a free one) OR a good book used as reference in a top university (Ideally Black-Scholes-Merton, at least), study prerequisites until I understand what the math is about, study the content, and then I would create a github and I would build a couple of tools using what I learned. Then link your github profile to your CV in a way that it is impossible to miss and apply - a lot.
@@TerrifyingBird thank you
@@TerrifyingBird what projects would you advise to do? In which languages?
It sounds like you want to be a teacher or a data scientist more than you want to be a quant (presumably on the buy side). Quants don't explain what numbers mean to laypeople. They're maths/coding prodigies that work alongside other maths/coding prodigies and geniuses to make shit tons of money on financial markets.
Thanks for the video! This was informative.
@kundaimutukwa9536
Thank you for the comment! Always warms my heart to know my experience has proved valuable to somebody else. Makes the experience worth it!
Are you currently preparing for quant interviews?'/intending to pursue a career in quant finance? Whereabouts are you based in the world?
@@myquantitative hey you’re welcome. I am currently studying the CQF but I have about some years experience in investment banking and trading but want to transition into quantitative trading
Hey thanks so much for the video. I would love to see more stuff like this
@flapablesteak8986 thank you so much for the comment! More to come in the pipeline! Stay tuned! Are you currently applying/preparing to apply for quant roles?
I was hoping to after I finish my masters, but I must say you are fair more qualified then I am so I am a little dissuade.@@myquantitative
@flapablesteak8986 The game is tough, but as long as we temper our expectations, you will be surprised at what outcomes can happen with perseverance and luck!
❤❤. thank you genuinely for the video. please make more with statistics!
@moheuddin_sehab Cheers, thank your for the support Sehab, whereabouts are you based and are you also applying for quant roles?
"Dropped at the 8th round" 8th round WHAT THE...
@kacperwodarczyk9349
Such is fate. Each interview, each application, has elements of luck, a roll of the dice.
They see me rolling, and they be rejecting me unfortunately
Whereabouts are you based? Are you currently applying/planning to apply to quant roles?
Insightful and depressing. Thank you for sharing.
@abrasp I'm heartened that my experience can light the path for others who come after me, regardless of how arduous the path maybe. Are you intending to pursue a quant career?
@@myquantitative Thank you for making this video, we need more people like you. I did engineering, just like you. Always been passionate about the idea of using algorithms to trade markets, so when I discovered what quant firms do, I wanted in. I am currently pursuing a PhD in ML and hope to transition into any quant role (research/trader/dev) later on. But I must admit, the elitism in finance and even the job market as a whole is boring me already. There are many ways to become successful, so we will see. In any case, you already reached your own success, so congrats!
@@abrasp Wow all the best on that, you are in one of the highest demand fields and qualifications right now! A close friend of mine is also doing a PhD in AI, he gets top quant firms reaching out to him instead. Crazy levels of demand.
Quant trading firms are definitely the sexiest players in the game but many forget that quants are employed in a plethora of positions within the finance industry. Unlike the sexy alpha quants at trading firms, many will not have their work directly tied to a PnL. Alpha quants will also live under the pressure of performance, make enough loses/ don't make enough to hit performance targets and your entire team/strategy gets shut down and you're out. Like SWEs at FANG companies, these handful of roles do skew the perception of the industry, particular on remuneration! Most of us are paid no where close to those numbers but definitely above average overall.
we are young and should explore! If you have an idea and no constraints holding you back, go for it! Quants are ultimately just above-average to highly paid employees, in terms of pay, they still suffer from the same lack of scale as any other job. Perhaps traders have some ability to scale with a consistent strategy that has not hit capacity, but those are rare and few to come by! Tech is in doldrums right now, firms are retrenching left right and center as they cut bloated cost centers.
Thank you for the compliment. My job is just one step on an incredibly tall ladder. If anything, these few months have taught me just how much I don't know! But on the bright side, because the field is knowledge and skills intensive, I could have something to entertain me for the rest of my life!
Whereabouts are you based, may I ask?
@@myquantitative Thank you for this detailed reply, very interesting. You are right, I tend to forget there is more to quant than just the alpha side of things. As for your question, I am based in Belgium. I've got a question as well. Does your friend do their PhD at a top school?
@abrasp. Yes that friend of mine does their PhD at a top school (think Oxbridge + London Universities). But that individual is a consummate researcher, even when compared to their PhD peers. I heard the PhD stipends are pitiful in the EU and apparently not as low as those in the UK. That friend of mine gets paid less than a bartender in the UK, it is a shame.
Very informative. Thank you
@user34274 Thank you! Which parts of the video did you find most informative?
Thanks for putting this up it helped me out
@bigbadlara5304 Cheers, thank your for the support, whereabouts are you based and are you also applying for quant roles?
Thank you so much for this video. I found your words on backup plan insightful. Given that I want to find some position in EU I should also prepare myself for a second career path maybe....
absolutely brutal application process. 7 days for one firm should be illegal. but i guess thats what happens when you want one of the most lucrative and coveted jobs itw.
@trytofindareasonwhy Indeed, that's the case for other lucrative roles in Private Equity, Software Engineering, Investment Banking, Hedge Funds. While not all firms have such brutal processes, increasingly, these practices are trickling down to the "lower-tier" firms, I shudder to think how the job application process will look like for the next generation. Brutal indeed.
I think quant jobs are overrated since your performance is determined by general market condition and luck is major factor.
Wanted to ask you, how did you search for open roles? Gathering 415 open roles is a big thing itself.
@amolarora7522 it was a mixture of applications directly on the company website, my university's job portal, LinkedIn, eFinancialCareers and recruiters applying to roles in their portfolio on my behalf. LinkedIn and eFinancialCareers make applications easy with a click of a button but whether anyone on the other end is monitoring the application inbox, is subjective.
For company websites, I had steadily collected a list of firm names from reading news articles and general browsing, which I made available to download in the description of my second video linked below.
th-cam.com/video/3JoxZi2Jfs8/w-d-xo.html
It's not much, only about 190 firms but it was just one more source, the more the better!
With LinkedIn job postings, the general consensus is that there is no harm trying, however, if the firm has the role listed on their own application page, it is best to apply through that rather than LinkedIn as the Internet seems to have enough examples of HR simply not monitoring the job posting on LinkedIn and/or being oblivious to where the submitted applications actually end up.
I'm considering making a video about how I went about my applications, what sources I used, my application strategy etc. Would you be interested in something like this?
@@myquantitativeThanks a ton!
For sure, will be interesting video!
I definitely second this. I'm finishing my PhD in STEM and would very much appreciate to know your insight into job discovery. If you put it in a patreon, I'd even pay for it.
That’s a great content, very constructive informations. Keep it up!
Thank, I wish you all the best on your applications! What sort of content would you be most interested in viewing? Would love to get everyone's thoughts to guide this channel to be a valuable resource for aspiring quants!
Are you singaporean? You sound a lot like if a Singaporean had a european-ish influence
@shaynemcpayne ¿Qué pasa, güey?
Im currently 17 and want to be a data scientist/machine learning engineer but there seems to be an overlap in the skills required for quantative analysis and the afromentioned fields,. Im also in the uk and study maths , further maths, chemistry and cs. Im also currently making projects and learning libraries used for data analysis and visualisation in python , studying extra curricular maths like multivariate calculus , more advanced linear algebra and statistics beyond my a level subjects. My school's careers officer suggested i also build a person brand so ive just now started making yt videos concerning maths/cs , my a level subjects really as a way to show my passion for ds/mle. I guess my question is something like : do you think i should be doing anything more to ensure i get ahead of my peers and comptetitors? As well as : would you say its easy to pivot from data science to quantative analysis? , there does seem to be an overlap in technical skills but i suppose the finance knowledge is an extra in being a quant as compared to data scientist.
Thanks :)
Great talk man. I'd be curious to know about System Design, multiprocessing, or other non-DSA/core coding topics that came up. I bet there are a handful of APIs one would do well to just memorize
@brandonallen2301 Thank you for the comment! Unfortunately I am not familiar with those fields. Those fall within the realm of quantitative developers (essentially software engineers) so your best bet is to follow the prep work expected highly competitive SWE roles. The only overlap between the prep work for such roles and the roles I applied for were just your standard DSA style coding questions, with the exception that I generally faced easy-mediums instead of hards. Hards have been known to make appearances in interviews but the general consensus I've seen, seem to be that they are rare.
That being said, if you do have experience and decide to list those on your C.V. and if the interviewer happens to a dev, you should be prepared to face questions regarding them. I've had rounds with devs and did face questions regarding DSA and general programming concepts but those were clearly tailored to fit my C.V. and background. Of course if I did apply for quant devs roles, I would likely have been thrown such questions.
Thank you for putting this video together! Sorry you had to go through so much time interviewing. You are dedicated and your experience is valuable to others! Are you able to share any details about the take home assessments you worked on, or do they make you sign NDAs while interviewing?
Could you do a video about fpga/computer implementation roles in quant. I'm currently studying for my masters in microelectronics engineering and I have a strong interest in arithmetic circuit optimisation. I’m also interested in low latency trading.
@dekev7503 Thank you for the comment, appreciate it! Unfortunately those topics fall under the realm of quantitative developers and engineers working in HFTs and I am not in a position to speak on those topics!
Thanks a lot for your very detailed presentation, full of good hints. But I (and maybe others) miss one important point: after such a long and tiring process did you got an interesting position ?
@HiltonFernandes Yes I eventually received an offer. To be clear, this wasn't in one of the typical ultra competitive firms with eye watering compensation, but it still pays above average for my location, it is in a small growing team with whom I get along well, the office is gorgeous with a great supportive culture and I can see myself growing within the role for years to come. The way I see it, the journey has just begun, entering into a quant role made me realised just how little I knew and the endless knowledge there is to pick up, it is exciting yet intimidating but it is to me, the right mix for a career : )
Are you currently applying for quant roles yourself?
I say it's easier to make a quant of yourself, get a basic job and over the course of a few years be your own employer as a part time / hobbyist. Why should you be a highly qualified employee when you can do your own small scale quant trading for a fraction of the effort and money that scales, plus the free time to do whatever you want after several years? As an employee, you get to be a cog in their machine and limited to a salary.
@Dan-uf2vh
Thank you for the comment! This is an avenue of thought that some quants (and others interested in the trading space) have thought about before. Take a look at the r/quant and r/algotrading subreddits and this topic does pop up often.
Here are some non-exhaustive reasons why it is not as simple as it may seem (Current quants or others in the industry definitely chime in on this!).
The elephant in the room would be finding a successful strategy (likely a basket of these to form a portfolio). As an institution, the range of data sources, hardware and software, tradable financial instruments and some might argue community, makes discovering and refining these strategies a lot easier. As an individual, you will work alone, have to pay for data sources and software licenses (companies have scale on these costs since the data and licenses is accessible to the entire pool of researchers and developers), have a limited pool of tradable instruments. Going from an institution to an individual quant trader severely shrinks the pool of strategies accessible to you. I like to think that resources and scale of an institution serves as a platform for quants to put their brilliance to work. Without those, there is only so much a quant can do. A strategy might go from profitable to loss-making once you remove the efficiency of execution and fees a firm would have vs a retail trader. That's why firms spend money optimising every inch of the pipeline apart from alpha signals, from execution, portfolio optimisation, advanced risk analysis and negotiating for best deals from their prime brokers or creating a complex and bespoke derivative to suit the needs of a particular strategy.
To make a living you would have to either; make a somewhat consistent outsize returns on small capital or consistent small returns on large capital. The first might be possible for some periods but remember you have to make a living for the rest of your life, can we stomach the drawdowns? For the second, if you do possess such a large capital (perhaps from being a great trader at a firm), you might find that all the effort for consistent small returns could instead be replaced by placing the lump sum into various dividend paying assets instead, rather than attempting to have a go at the markets once more, albeit from a technologically inferior position.
While some quants do have their job security tied to a PnL such as QTs, many others don't explicitly. Depending on the firm, even during times of underperformance, quants still get paid an above salary, something not afforded to an individual retail trader trying to make a living from their own PnL. Don't under estimate the price of stability!
I've heard stories of some quants/traders whom, after minting money working in the industry, move on to their own hobbies. While they may still trade from time to time, I don't think they realistically rely on the PnL from these activities to fund their life, likely it serves as an intellectual exercise/pursuit rather than a living. That being said, search on the internet long enough and you will find stories of people claiming to be independent traders/quants, the veracity of is not known. While I will certainly not rule out the possibility (since I'd like to entertain the idea of doing this myself one day), the sheer effort involved in climbing up this hill, makes one wonder if there are better ways to make a living.
@my_quantitative
Trading the market at any point in time is a zero-sum game. Your lengthy reply elaborates on how you get stiff competition.
However, the market has a tendency to go up. 🙂 So, while it is a bad idea to share your trading advice in good faith, I'm going to recommend the way Buffet does: invest long-term where I'm investing 😄!!
The more volatile stocks on the market is generally what my system picks up, although sometimes in the billions of market capitalization. Nowadays, many of them are biotech but overall range across domains.
Some proof to this idea is that I can't get any simulations where I turn a long-term profit from shorts. This shows I'm not really able to exploit anything by trading itself but rather by picking up portions of speculative growth from the market (some of that shows up either in dips as well as in highs). I would also get very large drawdowns across large swaths of time but overall come on top sooner than if I had gone into some random business venture.
Thank you so much.
@AaronNicholsonAI Cheers, thank your for the support Aaron. Whereabouts are you based and are you also applying for quant roles?
Thank you very much for giving us such a detailed guide and describing your personal experiences. Content like this is very rare.
May I ask whether you went through most of your applications during your master’s studies or after them when you had more free time? I am currently completing a master’s degree and I find it hard to stay on top of applications to jobs at times when there is more coursework/deadlines/exams.
Thank you for the comment! Much appreciated!
I went through most/if not all my applications after my masters studies and after getting a year+ of work experience. I actually left my job just before starting my applications (getting my first interviews).
During my masters studies, I was woefully underprepared and knew nothing about the expectations for a quant interview. Most of my applications never cleared the CV screening. The ones that did, I instantly knew I would not make it through assessments the moment I was sent my first Online Assessment (OAs).
I recall having to write an email to Bank of America Merrill Lynch to turn down an invitation for an interview for their Quant Analyst role when I saw the agenda, I knew I was not prepared.
Juggling your studies with applications is tough. Unless you’ve already done lots of prep work, I don’t think it’s worth it to jeopardise your final year juggling if you can afford it. I suggest focusing on completing your studies, having fun, making memories and just perhaps, beginning some light prep on the side e.g brushing up on the basics of your probability and statistics, data structures and algorithms so that you can hit the ground running the moment you graduate!
Best of luck! Whereabouts are you based in the world and where are you planning to apply to
I am a decent SWE and I am a junior right now. I am going to be interning at TIktok next summer. I only know DSA and some stats and did python plotting in linear algebra. Can I land a full time quant role by 2025 August?
This is honestly a goldmine. Thank you so much for this in-depth video! I plan to begin quant applications during the first quarter of next year. I'm seeking direction as to what role would be the best for me. I would love to obtain your insights. Is there a way I can reach out to you?
Thank you for the comment. It means a lot to know that my experience is valuable to others in the community. You can reach out to me at myquantitative@gmail.com and I will try my best to respond!
@user-mx6nc4tn4e
Hey man,
I absolutely loved the level of detail you went into with this. I'm quite a neurotic person as well so this appeals to me and I've found that so far I've been playing it shy (Not self-learning, not having a plan, just applying) and this video really motivated me to take it more seriously and plan better. Btw, how do you track the number of applications you applied to?
Just to boost the algorithm, thank you for this video! May I ask what you did in highschool/ what you were interested in back then?
@Kishblockpro Thank you for the support and the appreciate the comment! Every little bit helps with the algorithm!
I had fairly normal time in highschool. I did well (relative to others) in mathematics and sciences, although I had extra tuition classes, like many students back home. Outside of school, I spent a regrettably inordinate amount of time playing games on the computer. I have/had an interest in cars, which motivated me to study engineering at university.
Whereabouts are you based and are you currently applying for quant roles/ preparing to apply for quant roles?
hey dude, i hear a lot of people without finance/trading background going into quant. what i'm confused about is, how do they land the job without the finance/trading background if the interview process involves finance/trading type assessments? Like Options Pricing theory & backtesting questions etc.
@fadedsedated You are correct. These job descriptions never explicitly state a preference for prior finance knowledge, but it is an open secret that plenty of prep work goes into tackling the interviews. The depth of knowledge expected for interviews isn't particularly deep at all, I find the more challenging aspect being the range of topics you could be questioned on. Many of my peers picked up this knowledge through intense self-study and self-exploration, interacting with alumni and seniors and taking part in industry-led events such as hackathons, trading competitions, prediction competitions. The intense competition for such roles, particularly at coveted firms, brings with it an increasingly higher bar for selection. While firms could, in theory, teach everything about finance to a brilliant STEM student, why not instead pick a STEM student who was committed enough to explore the topics themselves?
It can be frustrating to read descriptions that say " Prior experience in finance is not required, we will teach you everything you need to know", employers would still pick the STEM student who was motivated enough to self-teach themselves. This is not exclusive to Quant roles, look at Investment Banking, Consulting, Private Equity, Hedge Funds, Software engineering, Data Science. There is no one university course that will equip you with everything you need for the job or the interview process. Hence, these roles do except people from a wide range of backgrounds, as long as they can survive the interview process.
very helpful！
@pengyipeng1661 Thank you for the support and I appreciate the comment! Every little bit helps the algorithm!
Whereabouts are you based in the world? Are you currently preparing/in the midst of applying for quant roles? Always curious who are clicking on my videos!
@@myquantitative Based in London right now! Yes Preparing for that!
i can hear in his voice he's good at maths . what else do they need?
@Ducky-zj7bn Fortunately/unfortunately, a lot more is required. Everyone here is at least, proficient in mathematics, more must be brought to the table :)
What's your view on the efficacy of Cambridge Part III Mathematics (taking probability, statistics, ML/DL, and combinatorics electives) for landing quant trading roles? I am not really interested in Quant Dev. Thanks!
@GauravK_
The fact that Part III is even available as an option already speaks to a high degree of mathematical ability and maturity, plus the Cambridge and Part III branding is about as strong of a branding and signaller for employers as possible. You're likely smart enough already and the Cambridge name (and specifically Part III) just adds a great packaging for your C.V.
The way I see it, if you have not had prior work experience, the extra one-year will be useful for landing internships/applying to graduate roles. In terms of the knowledge, those fields will put you on the right track if you weren't already focusing on those in your prior degree, or your previous Parts at Cambridge.
Whereabouts are you based in the world? Are you already a student at Cambridge?
thanks for the brilliant video. Do you think you would receive more offers if you weren't a non-EU citizen? I think quant companies are not eager to relocate employees to US/EU as FAANG do.
@atriusgodheart9088
If we are talking about roles in the EU, I likely would have gotten more responses from firms in the EU for sure. Internships and full-time roles (particularly for graduates) are tough to come by for Non-EU citizens in the EU as there are laws that prioritise EU citizens ( to my knowledge, any EU citizens please feel free to correct me on this!). A friend from the same course and I both applied to the Sauber F1 Team in Switzerland for an internship. He was progressed straight to the assessment whilst I received a lovely email explaining that they could not offer me, a non-EU citizen, even an internship.
I think quant companies, particularly the established ones have all the budget for it, it's just a matter of finding the right talent and meeting any regulatory requirements.
My lack of offers I would better attribute to the fact that I made this transition late in my university career (only choosing to do so after I graduated). So despite my university, I was no where near the ideal candidate compared with my other peers who committed to the quant route earlier in their university life. I also made some mistakes during my interviews and prep that costs me to be dropped at later stages. Interviews, much like standardised testing can favour some individuals more than others and I consider myself falling into the latter camp!
Is a MS statistics a common background of quant researchers? I feel like firms just hire from MFEs
@prod.kashkari3075 Are there quants with an MS in Statistics, sure there are. As for it being common, I'm not sure. MFEs are a great way for aspiring quants to give their resume a "reset". They can leverage the opportunity of being a student again, opening up opportunities to valuable internships, networking opportunities and research experience. These add more finance/quant specific experience and knowledge, which can be valuable if one did not embark on prior internships or if your latest work experience do not bring much in transferrable skills.
That being said, I know individuals, who have gotten roles as quants straight out of undergraduate, the commonality between them being:
- a background in a STEM subject, most likely from a target school
- some research experience (likely a combination of their thesis and other research opportunities that universities' offer)
- prior internships in the industry/adjacent roles that demonstrate proficiency in the core quantitative skillsets
(an analyst role, data scientist, software engineers etc)
- strong interview prep and interview performance
- a good story behind their interest in the industry or their transition into it
- Lots of applications and good ol' luck and timing. A referral wouldn't hurt too :)
In days of old, quants were exclusively PhDs from the top universities. However, as the industry grew and demand for the skills and roles increased, it is possible to be hired straight out of undergrad but it goes without saying, that it is ultra-competitive as an applicant. Not every quant ends up working on cutting edge alpha research, responsibilities can vary widely, some roles do require the expertise that a PhD/MFE should confer while others do not. I'm sure every firm would love to have exclusively PhDs working in every quant role but the feasibility of that is questionable, not to mention the benefits of training and retaining talented, bright and motivated individuals straight out of undergraduate
@@myquantitative I see, I fall into the bucket of working an adjacent role “data scientist” where I’m doing modeling/analysis etc but it’s not really related to finance. I’ve worked for 2 years here and thinking of trying to get into a quant role but I just wonder how 2 years working as a data scientist in a non finance setting is gonna impact me
@@prod.kashkari3075 It will impact you in so far as your ability to explain your transition story. What skills do you bring from your previous role that you think allow you to strive as a quant? What do you know about the industry and how did you go about learning more? Why do you want to move now? What motivated you?
Assuming you have prepared and pass the standard quant interview process. Securing a quant role is possible. It's not going to be easy nor will you be seen as attractive as the traditional candidate described in my previous comment. Barring any exceptional talent or stellar reputation that you have in your current role/industry, you wont' be entering any of the top quant firms, but a smaller firm or perhaps an internship is still on the table. What matters is you putting that effort to get that first foot in the industry and making your way from there. It's not going to be easy by any stretch, as expected in any career switch.
Very informative video. Thank you. I have a question. I am a final year Computer Science & Engineering undergraduate. What path would you recommend me that would allow me to get into the quant industry?
dope vid clean
@goliathstark9142 cheers!
Great video! I know you did not touch on degrees in the video, but as someone who has a BS in Comp Sci and has worked in IT Consulting for 2 years, what would you say is the best way to pivot into this? MFE or some other financial masters? Do you know if that would keep my options open for more traditional fundamental analyst roles or is it best to narrow into quant programs? My BS is non target, but maybe good enough to get into a target masters program.
@travisnabbefeld5974 Thank you for the comment! The safest way would be an MFE from a target school! Yes that would keep your options open, the caveat being you are able to interview well for the traditional fundamental analyst roles, which requires it's own set of preparation. Someone with a technical background (MFE and other rigorous STEM subjects) will still be able to obtain experience in the traditional fundamental analyst/IB roles assuming they interview well. The same however, cannot be said for individuals without STEM/MFE degrees, who, while able to apply for the traditional fundamental analyst/IB roles, will most certainly not be eligible for quant roles.
If your BS is a non-target, it would be all the more paramount to get into a target/semi-target, since finance is elitist like that.
Whereabouts are you based in the world?
Do you thinking doing engineering limited your application, and could have been the reason some companies didn’t take you as seriously as they should? Do you think that it’s as simple as if you had done CS you would ha hv be gotten more positive responses?
Hey man i love ur dedication.
can u help me to figure out something
iam persuing btech CSE (specialized in Data science) 2nd year, i want to get into quant, how can i get into?
what degree should i persue for PG ?
what kind of project are they looking for ?
what roles can i apply and what skillset are they looking for a specific roles?
and give me the most realisitc approach
it would be nice if u can give a insight on it
hey so I am going to umd for cs and I plan to do their machine learning specialization. After wards I want to explore masters programs and then do quant stock trading. the only thing is I have heard that to do quant you need to be from a prestigious background. Umd is already top 20 for cs but Im thinking I need to do cargneie melon level of schools so do you have any info on this and tips for getting into masters. About to be a freshman in a month what can I do to get there?
That is a great video !
As an undergraduate engineer (3rd year), in want to chose a major between Data & AI or financial Engineering. To be honest I don’t know what to chose…
It’s been a whole year of me not being able to decide on which way to go…
I wanna work in finance but I don’t have a very good stress resiliency.
So I think it’s better for me to start in informatics (data) and then maybe pursue in finance (with an mba?). What do you guys think ?
@blackshot_9269 Thank you for the comment, appreciate it!
The financial engineering major sounds more put together and recognised than "Data & AI", which just gives off the "universities-hoping-on-the-AI-trend-to-make-a-profit-from-students" vibe. If you're looking to work at the cutting-edge of AI as a researcher, you should be looking at a PhD and even then it will still be competitive. An undergraduate degree will likely have you working in MLOps or as a Data Scientist. That being said, I've also mostly heard of financial engineering as a post-graduate course rather than undergraduate. Popular ones that come to mind are UC Berkeley's MFE and Columbia's MSFE.
Unfortunately, stress is a feature not a bug when working in finance.That's a question you have to answer for yourself. Not everyone is cut out for finance and that's ok, there are many ways to earn a living in this world besides working for the suits and ties.
If you're specifically interested in quant finance, I'm not sure how an MBA is going to benefit you at all. If you're looking at roles in IB, PE and VCs, that will be valuable but definitely not for quant finance.
Just began this process and I'm terrified I will never get anything. Are there any other relevant jobs I can apply for in the meantime to build up experience?
Do they check that your degree is real?
Thanks for the video! It was very informative and insightful for people like me.
May I ask how you wrote the motivation letters some firms were asking? Did you wrote one general letter and changed up the firms name before submitting, or did you write a specific letter for each of your 415 applications?
Thank you! @thierryrioual701 Appreciate the comment, it's great to know my experience will keep providing values for those that will come before me.
I wrote one general letter i.e. 90% of the content was the exact same paragraphs copy and pasted.
The roles I was applying for were designated as Quant Researcher/Quant Analyst/Desk Quant. The core skillsets are the same across most quant roles (with the exception of Quant Developer since these guys are essentially software engineers, to my knowledge, there is nothing particular Quant-y about a Quant Dev other than the fact they may be building quant-specific projects).
Since the core skillsets are the same and are what you should be highlighting and elaborating on in your cover letters. I drafted a single template that demonstrated these core skills and copy and pasted them for every application. I only changed out the addresses at the top and the first paragraph of my cover letters. I spent basically no time on cover letters once the template was set. From my interviews, I never once had any interviewer bring up my cover letter, they at most, had my C.V. in front of them and asked questions from there.
Would you, and anyone else reading this comment, like a video where I share this template? It's short, sweet and to the point, making it adaptable to anyone and I believe, any job application you may have in general!
@@myquantitative Hey thankyou so much for guiding. Some of us couldn't go to reputed Universities or get proper guidance. I personally would be grateful to you if you could share as many resources as possible. Thanks again.
Insightful
Thank you Prakhar for the comment! Are you currently preparing for your quant interviews as well? Let me know what topics you are most interested in seeing regarding the interview/career/industry
Hi @@myquantitative,
I want to get into Quant Strategist role>> or Quant Developer role,
So can you give the detailed roadmap for that?
Also I want to ask will my educational background will create a hinderance if I had done my Bacholers in CSE from Tier 3 college?
Thanks in advance:)
Were you asked interview questions on Options Pricing Theory?
@MrAcenit I encountered questions on Options Price Theory in a couple of my interviews but it wasn't my strong point. Options Pricing Theory is a popular topic within quant finance interviews because there are many quant roles that require working with options and other derivatives. This is particularly true of sell-side roles at investment banks or trading firms, since these are the assets that the firm/teams will be selling, pricing and trading. On the other hand, I have encountered interviews with no questions on options pricing theory, whether in the in-person or online assessments. In general, if the quant role revolve around being an "alpha" quant, about devising trading strategies, it seems like topics such as machine learning, time-series modelling, backtesting knowledge and general statistical modelling practices will be much more relevant as compared to options pricing and stochastic calculus.
On a side note, thank you for the support and I appreciate the comment! Every little bit helps the algorithm!
Whereabouts are you based in the world? Are you currently preparing/in the midst of applying for quant roles? Always curious who are clicking on my videos!
I’ve got a placement offer to do quant research at state street for 13 months (industrial placement) but I’m unsure how good it is as it’s doing quant at an asset manager. Do you know if this is any good and what future career prospects may look like based on this?
@jameshelm7015 Any experience is good experience in general. You are not strictly siloed to the type of firm you did your internship/placement at. Your ability to move also depends on your eagerness to learn and grow. If that's the only offer you have, it is better than none. If there's still time to apply/in the process of other better ones (HFs, Prop shops), definitely gun for those if the work/expectations there interest you more.
That being said, Asset managers are the slower moving firms of the buy-side. They have more conservative mandates (no shorts or volatile strategies) and longer investment horizons, so don't expect to be working on short-term strategies or HFT-related projects at all. Salaries are not the eye-watering numbers you expect at HFs/Prop shops but still respectable, the pace of life is slower too. Don't discount stability!
I wouldn't worry too much at this point. Focus on doing well and learning as much as you can and hopefully secure a return offer (always great to have one of these in the bag). If you're doing placements, you're likely still a student so if you decide to shoot for HFs and Prop shops, you can always prepare and apply to those after you're done with this placement.
Congratulations on your offer!
If anyone not from top universities and not participate in school any competition and how can crack quant from universities
Thanks for the comment @NeerajKumar-gk9kz ,
Establishing the context that finance in general (quant or not) is inherently an elitist industry, given that one is not from a top university (or at a university that is known for the rigour of your programme) and without a great C.V, breaking into a quant role right out the gate from university, your chances are slim at best without contacts.
That being said, quants enter the industry at various stages, your best bet would be to break into adjacent roles, getting some experience before attempting to break into the quant world. Such roles include data scientists, software engineers and other types of analyst roles in STEM industries that involve working with times series data, statistical analysis of data with a heavy emphasis on programming (ideally to a professional level and not just spaghetti code, such as those we tend to write in university assignments).
The doors are NOT shut, especially if you have a STEM background and your work experience has transferrable skills. Get the right experience after university, craft your C.V well and learn to tackle quant interviews and a quant role sometime in the future is definitely still on the cards! If money is not an issue or if you plan your finances well, many embark on an MFE graduate degree. That opens up opportunities for research work and internships (which firms are more receptive to if you are a student again). If you do both, your chances of breaking into a quant role will likely just be resting on your interview skills.
All the best Neeraj!
@@myquantitativewhich schools in the uk would still be good for an MFE that outside of the target schools (Imperial, Oxbridge, UCL,Warwick etc.)?
@@user-ne8lj3cf5q
Honestly, from the consensus I get online, I question whether it would even be worth it (in both time and monetary) commitments to get an MFE from a non-target. If those were my only options, I would spend the time and money trying to land some relevant experience via internships in relevant and adjacent roles and leveraging those to either get a return offer or continue applying for full-time roles.
Note that these internships wouldn't be through the regular internship pipelines available to undergrads. Rather, cold emailing to smaller firms and such.
That being said, if you are lucky enough to have time and money not be a constraint but are unable to get into a target school for an MFE, pick the next best school.
Just understand that you cannot count on the branding of your school (no one should in my opinion, regardless of being a target or non-target), rather you should be doubling down on leveraging the opportunities afforded to being a student again i.e. internships, research opportunities at university and the time commitment for interview prep
All the best!
@@myquantitative hey is KCL a target?
Do u do codeforces? If so whats ur rating
@zax_caliber5065 No I do not do codeforces
What is the best coding language to learn if i want to pursue quant analyst /trader?
c++ easily, low latency and powerful
@@griefwnl7641 thanks
C++
@worldhistoryforyou-1 C++ and Python will be your best bet.
All of these seem very daunting wth
@michaeladams4999 They definitely do! But as with many things, with practise and regular exposure, it gets less and less intimidating once you begin to spot the "patterns" within interviews. It definitely takes time but remember, no sacrifice, no victory :)
Are you planning to apply for quant roles in the future?
Interesting thanks for uploading! Did you accept the offer?
@circlejerkatz
Yes I did! Currently working in the role!
Whereabouts are you based? Are you currently applying/planning to apply to quant roles?
I'm in the us. I'm not thinking of becoming a quant it seems too difficult to get into. However, I randomly connected with one and the stories I've heard are absolutely wild, the math skills are impressive and the wealth is extreme.. @@myquantitative
@circlejerkatz Quants come in all flavours, not all of us are paid the eye-watering salaries/commissions but those come with a degree of job instability as well. We do command a respectable salary and some roles are more stable than others. Of course those quants get all the limelight as well hence the impression of the industry.
Damn, what can i expect as pretty average future pharmacy graduate in Europe?
@mikahjohnas1217 I'm going to be honest that your current chances are near slim to none. Your best bet is to get yourself back to school (hopefully a target) to reset your chances for internships/graduate roles.
bro do you go imperial? i think i recognise you 😆
@DrBonkersInc No way bro! Drop me a DM on LinkedIn/Instagram if you do know me! I'll be keeping a lookout
Do you think Masters in financial engineering would help me prepare for an entry level quant role?
@mrnoble3896 Yes it will, this is the typical path for individuals looking to make the transition. who lack a sufficiently transferable skillset to enter an entry level quant role e.g. engineers. Assuming you have a sufficiently strong mathematics background (ideally from a prior STEM degree), the MFE will serve as a "second chance", equipping you with a more focus set of quantitative finance knowledge and most importantly, allowing you to be considered as a student again and apply for the coveted internships and research experience. With this refreshed C.V. in-hand, coupled with some months of interview prep, you should be able to land an entry-level quant role. Will the role be at a top-firm with the famous eye-watering compensations? That's another question and also a function of how hard you push yourself!
Whereabouts are you based in the world!
You are super smart guy and properly switched on, except for one thing, you chose a wrong strategy.
With immense knowledge of math and x4 months of time investment you should had got yourself some data and then focu those x4 months to find a working strategy. If you walked into that quant firm with a working cash machine they'll put you straight into the seat, you won't even see HR manager.
Hello, i’m starting BSc mathematics at the University of Nottingham next week and have interest in becoming a quant. If i finish my course and then go onto a masters at oxbridge lse or warwick do you think i have a chance?
make sure you apply to many spring weeks now, put finance/quant related stuff on ur cv like societies, trading competitions, personal finance projects, apply to many spring weeks and do multiple if u can, make sure ur cv format is good, get good at the interviews, 2nd year apply to quant/trading internships, nottingham isnt oxbridge but its a semi target so u should have no problems
awesome ! and usefull even for humble accountant like me hehe.
Thank you for the comment @CosmicBarrilet
Indeed, great interview advice span the gamut of industries and careers! Are you currently interviewing for a new role as an accountant?
If someone wants to apply as a software dev in quant firms what topics should he expect in the interviews
@AnshSingh-dk5uu Your preparation will be the same for a SWE position at FAANG.
Where are you based and are you currently applying for quant roles?
Hello, I am starting my research into applying for a Quant Analyst job in USA. I am completing my MSc in FInancial Engineering from WorldQuant University. Do you think online masters has any chance of landing a job?
@SilverBalverine I won't sugar coat the truth but the chances of landing a quant role with an online masters will be slim to none. The quant world and the wider finance industry is elitist in it's selection criteria. There are already plenty of graduates from the top institutions competing for the roles. Your best bet is to attend a full-time in-person MSc programme at a known university. All the best!
400 is pretty standard. Its not that excessive
I agree! Especially in the tech industry, 300-400 applications are the norm now! Although some candidates do get discouraged due to outliers, when what they are going through is normal, so it helps to be open about numbers.
how to have degree in multiple engg domains at the same time? please guide me I have interest in multiple engg domains and I want to have knowledge and skillset to become an entrepreneur
@rajarshibarman4474 Unfortunately, I cannot help you here. While having multiple interests in commendable, my advice would be to pick one field and get good at it before branching out, all the best
@@myquantitative I asked this because you have masters in multiple different engg domains so I thought you could share how you did it
Great video. I have a MSc Financial Mathematics, but so far no luck. I know it's a little forward, but can you mentor me please? I'm lost and very close to give up.
Thank you for the comment @6Ligma
Drop me an email with your C.V at myquantitative@gmail.com
I'm incredibly busy with work at the moment so I will try my best to respond! Looking forward to hearing back from you
@@myquantitative I will. Thank you so much for your response.
Which university and what final grade?
Which Russel Group University did you graduate from?
@Charlie43348
I come from one of the following:
Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial College, UCL, LSE, KCL, Warwick, Bristol
@@myquantitative I’m not sure what the secrecy is for. This is far more educational if you would actually say. You’ve applied for so many jobs it’s clearly not Oxbridge, LSE, Imperial or UCL. Warwick’s course is very good. So either Bristol/KCL. No shame in admitting either
@@Charlie43348leave him be, he doesn’t want to be identified
im cooked
@lipca Comment came straight from r/csMajors
Do you have any discord channel?
I have few questions,
Which college you graduated from?
How to make our profile in a way to get accepted to your college? Any prerequisite.
No I do not have a discord channel, @prakhar_agarwal
I graduated from one of the Russell Group universities in the UK, one that has a strong focus on STEM subjects.
The pre-requisites are the same for any highly ranked university: Great pre-university grades, a compelling cover letter and interviewing well (if invited for one)
Do you have a comparable job now?
@dismalWorld1 Yes I am currently working as a full-time quantitative researcher
Me watching this while being a Quant Finance Reaearcher and eating popcorn 😂
@HonestReviewers Hahaha I am sure you have already paid your dues to the interview process.
@@myquantitativeno i got picked up while being in college. Quant firms organize annual competitions. I won one such competition with rank 1 in the world.
@@HonestReviewers What a C.V. you must have had. Were you always aiming to be a quant even before college.
Salute to you. Classic quant profile right here.
Do you see yourself staying in the industry or do you have plans to move on eventually.
@@myquantitative No i randomly stumbled upon the competition. Did not knew anything about Finance but I went through one of the world’s toughest exam (search JEE Advanced) so my Maths was really strong. I translated that skill into Quant by quickly picking up the basic finance terminologies i needed to understand for the sake of the competition.
I am open to Data Science roles if I get a higher pay offer. Although in the past whenever I got an offer my current employer has matched the amount and kept me from switching
Are you Singaporean? I can hear some of the accent. :)
@ryan_chew97 close!
@@myquantitative so malaysian?
@salsashreenee6887 Perhaps that too :)
I am losing hope
@bhadbhris I don't blame you. It is a hyper competitive and elitist industry. And the pay can still differ from role to role, and more importantly, between geographies.
skill issue
@StevenEwaldGFX For sure, my less than conventional background and late transition definitely barred me from the top firms. Just grateful to get a foothold in the industry and looking forward to growing within the role
sounds incredibly boring and monotonous.
@doomtomb3 an apt description for many white collar jobs!
IMO it's easier to make your own profitable trading rather than get through these interviews
@vorandrew in the depths of my application grind, this thought did spring to mind. Are you one of the rare few who have managed to do this?
Brutal and demoralizing, I hope that you made it nonetheless.
@Mastercane98 Thank you, I eventually received and accepted an offer at a buy-side firm. Nothing shiny like Jane Street or Citadel in New York making a billion per minute, but ultimately a foothold within the industry nevertheless and still a job (especially in this economy). Learnt lots and plenty more to go. From here on, it is down to me to learn and grow and push myself should I so wish.
Youd better be making 200k min
@tear728 Quant roles can vary in compensation depending on the country, type of role, type of firm and most importantly responsibility (The biggest one being, do you have your own book and PnL?). The higher the compensation, the higher the risks involved (lose money for long enough and you're out the door)
@@myquantitativehow many hours do you work in this current role?
Damn this guys has to interview terribly.
@DoYouEvenRift Could have been better for sure
If you have been rejected over 400 times maybe you should consider different path of your career? McDonalds perhaps? I don't want to sound mean but every potential employee when see you videos on YT... what they gonna think about you. It's weird to brag about losing 400 times in the row. Imagine playing CS:GO and dying over 400 times without single kill. Every sane person would say 'it's not for me, I am out'.
Hedge fund is a very competitive area, plus he is an international student, it is very likely that he got rejected automatically due to sponsorship reasons regardless of how qualified he is and what the positions are. It is very common to get rejected for 99%of the roles in hedge fund.
@KamilSkalny r/csMajors
@shuier525 You have been in the arena. Salute