Marathon Long Training Run
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- Not all runs go according to plan, we try, fail, learn and try again. Today was one of those days.
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‘Arrogant’ indeed! You don’t have an arrogant bone in your body, Floris. I’ve hit a half marathon PR and qualified for Boston by following your advice. Keep up the excellent work.
I really liked the point in keeping the ego at the door for this type of training run. I’m working on getting to sub 3 later this year and I die a little inside running at this slower paces. But I know they will serve me well later this year during game time!
Dude you are great. I can't stop watching your videos they are very inspiring great job
Running the Marine Corps Marathon later this month in DC and all of your videos have been very helpful to help prep myself for it. Thank you!
Great honest video. It shows that even the most experienced of runners can encounter problems. Im guessing you have learned quite a lot from your experience.
wanes82 thank you, thank means a lot! We keep learning every time! 👍
Good video Floris, like that you are true and honest about everything! 🖒
Kim Jakobsson 🙏 thanks! Trying to keep these videos as honest as possible! Hope your runs are going well Kim! Cheers
Thanks for sharing Floris. Your videos are expiring and entertaining..
In my case, if I face 27 C during the run I would have to adjust down all my paces by quite a bit. I am in Boston area and sometimes it gets that hot and humid. Under those conditions, my HR starts to get too higher after 20 minutes
Carmen Liron-Espana it always amazes me how much temperatures impact your heart rate in rest and activity. Have fun on your runs out there! Thanks and cheers
Great videos.
Another thing to consider is if you do trail training with HR, consider time rather than distance, (I know that you had a pace goal for the back 5mi so that is harder to gauge if it was hilly)
This is a great video, thanks buddy. I'm training for Edinburgh marathon and I'm half way through my 16 week programme. Done a couple of 20 mile runs at about 7.45 pace but haven't thought about mixing the pace. Might try this approach next time.
I live a few miles from Irvine, Scotland so if you're ever visiting just get in touch ha!
Glad to hear that! Yes, give it a go, good way to hold back and finish strong. I've never been to Scotland, it's on my bucketlist of places. Maybe next summer after a few weeks in Holland again. Have a good marathon in Edinburgh, let me know how it goes! Cheers
@@FlorisGierman I will do cheers. PB 3.14 on a hilly course so the target is sub 3 although it won't be this race as I've not pushed hard enough for it. Next time who knows!
Fantastic video. Thanks for sharing your training and your insights.
I'm curious. Does the 5miles of hard running at the end detract from the aerobic benefits of the long MAF run because of the spike in heart rate?
mug7703 great question. During a base building period you want to limit your high HR runs as much as possible. This 20 mile long training run with last 5 miles below marathon pace is not a run you'd typically do during base building. Keep in mind that there is absolutely a time and place for high HR runs, also for runners following MAF approach rigorously. Hope that helps, cheers!
Ha ha. I did a search for the Tunnel Marathon video and then it went right into this. It looks like you are running on trails I know well! The world is a small place.
My guess is you work near the Spectrum and then took the trails just north of Barbara's Lake/James Dilley and dropped under Laguna Canyon into Nix Nature Center area. Then I am not sure if you went up Willow or Big Bend. Big Bend is a beast and my guess is that what you did.
I am thinking of doing the Tunnel Run. I haven't run it but it seems like it makes more sense to do a couple out and back runs from say Paseo de Valencia to Cook's Corner on the Aliso Creek Bike Trail. It isn't 20, more like 17 or so but going out it is all uphill and then coming back is all downhill and is about the same decline as the Tunnel Marathon for a little over 8 miles. I am trying to run around marathon pace or a little faster after the turn around. There are no signals or cars to worry about (except for one intersection with few cars). I want to get my legs to feel the pounding and get used to running downhill for a good distance.
Any tips for the Tunnel Marathon?
Brilliant video and great attitude 👌
Thank you Robert. If the run doesn't go according to plan, at least we can try to keep the attitude positive :)
I actually really like this approach to the longrun. But I am also curious if the spike in heartrate will affect the low HR benefits negatively. I'm sure I read somewhere on the Maffetone website that spiking HR should if at all be done completely separate from the aerobic training. That's why I chose to do aerobic training on separate days, even though I still do a lot of my running faster. Thank you for all your inspiring videos Floris. I really enjoy watching you run.
Sophie Kristiansen thank you, very glad to hear you enjoy the videos. During a base period I'd avoid these long harder training runs. Once you've developed a proper aerobic base or notice little to no progress, then higher hr runs can be very beneficial!
I wouldn't prefer a training by heart rate. Heart rate is going to increase with running time. Choose an apropriate pace which fits to the temperature/climate and your fitness level.
how would that work when there is elevation, either an uphill or downhill, what about if you have a cold or are recovering from an injury? Sticking to a set pace is asking for trouble then. Cardiac drift is normal, however if you train your aerobic system well, your HR will not increase much over several hours when you're well trained, as long as you hydrate well.
That’s an interesting strategy of running the first 15 easy and the last 5 hard in order to simulate marathon speed. I wonder if you use the same refueling strategy during your training run as you would during an actual race. Do take gels and water at the same rate on your training run as you would during a marathon?
Hello, what is more important weekly mileage or long runs.I Think these are mutually exclusive since when I do a long run I need some days to recover which in turn affects my weekly total mileage.
I would suggest your mistake on this run was increasing your speed using pace vs heart rate. Try just increasing you heart rate 5-10 beats the last 5 miles. Your heart rate automatically factors in conditions such as heat, terrain, etc. and the overall affect of increasing your heart rate has the same affect as increasing your pace in ideal road conditions. I gauge all my marathons using heart rate and have had great success😊
Floris, HELP!! I am a adept of the Maffetone method and I love your insights. I have a Marathon in 3 weeks, and in the last two weeks I have experienced three runs where my HR would spike while still at the MAF heart rate (135 for me). I cannot understand if this is linked to my diet (maybe no enough good carbs...) or there is sthg wrong with my heart (I had a detailed checkup of my heart 6 months ago - No issue). Would you be able to share insight on: Why and how could you HR spike out of the blue. A bit like what just happened to you in this Long run video...? Thanks so much in advance,
Floris what do u use for hrm? Looks like u use a watch. I know a chest strap is best but i read that a watch is okay for stable runs. I have a garmin forerunner 230 and im thinking of getting the garmin fenix 5s. Your thoughts on using the fenix 5s for ultra training hrm?
Are you just holding the go pro in your hand or do you use a gibal?
Great video !did you walk to top of hill to keep hr down below 146?
Sorry to ask, are you breathing through the nose or mouth..and which one more efficient for long run and better endurance.?
Breathing through your nose is a good sign that you're running slow enough to develop your aerobic base and mostly use fat for energy vs sugar (glucose). I ran almost all my runs at low HR breathing through my nose.
Great video!
Great video
Great Video! I'm going for my sub 3 hour marathon next month at cottonwood, Utah. The race is a 5,000 ft decline, how should I approach this. My MAF is the same with a HR of 145. Should I attack it since it's downhill and try to decrease impact on my knees and quads and how much can I go over my Max HR like say 150-155?
That's exciting Andy! That's a very steep decline, I'm sure it will be a fun race. What do you think your race strategy should be? Typically if you're well training 10 - 15 beats over MAF should be possible to maintain, however keep in mind this is a steep downhill, so your HR should be a bit lower than on a flat course.
I want my strategy to be to keep my HR at or below 155 bpm. I'm hoping that I can have a 6:45 pace with the HR. Also, at looking at the water breaks station, I plan on taking a gel every 6 miles. I hope that this is a sound strategy and it feels right. Do you concur? I have been doing the ketogenic diet for a year and it has helped with my fat utilization. I was going to ask what watch would you recommend? I'm using the Garmin vivoHR but am thinking of getting either the Forerunner 235 or the 735 but can't decide. I was running the Jack Daniels run method but noticed of getting more injuries, since watching your videos I have been doing the Maffetone method and feels easier on my legs.
You mentioned that you use 180-age for heart rate zone calculations, have you attempted to find your maximum? I.e, what's the highest you can get your heart rate?
kepagel I have been using the 180 MAF formula to calculate my MAF pace. I think this calculation works pretty well for most runners looking to build an aerobic base. An LT test in medical lab is more accurate, however depends if you're willing to spend the $. My max HR is about 178, has gone down significantly over the past 4 years. Cheers!
Floris Gierman Max heart rate can be gauged relatively easily by doing a short run with a warm up/cool down and ~10-15 min giving extremely hard effort, expensive lab tests are unnessecary! This estimation will likely only be ~97/98% of true max.
That being said, with your max of 178, and using Karvonen formula, let's say your resting rate is 45. (178-45)*.80 + 45 ~ 152. This isn't far off from your Maf pace. For me, my max heart rate is ~217, so 80% effort for me would be ~178 bpm. Far from Maf pace.
After several months of very little progress running Maf pace, I figured out my max heart rate is ~217. About 3 weeks of running at 70/80% effort, I've taken 20 seconds off my pace at 80% since 3 weeks ago.
Anybody that wants to build an aerobic base, id highly recommend gauging max heart rate. Maf may work for the majority of people, but there are some outliers.
I agree there are definitely outliers, 217 is a very high max HR. Using the Karvonen or similar formulas can work in some cases, however your true aerobic HR zones will be determined more precisely in an LT test. The purpose of these tests is not to find your max hr, but to find the build up of Lactate at various intensities and heart rates. Yes, you can estimate this with a formula, however a lab test will be more accurate. Glad you've found a way to make significant improvement in a short period of time. Keep it up!!
Hi Floris thanks for sharing your knowledge to everyone. My target heart rate is 130, can I run at heart rate 120, I feel a lot better at 120, which means I don’t feel anything at all and that what I want. Do you think I will get better if running at 120 heart rate
Yes, I'd aim for the 120 to 130 HR zone. If 120 feels better, run around that HR!
@@FlorisGierman thanks Floris
What kind of fitness wrist watch do you have?
Hi Brian, I run with a Garmin 620 Forerunner and separate Garmin soft strap HR monitor
I'm local to Irvine, where is that trail?
Probably Crystal Cove Park
Good oace cause you can still talk and understand what you say
Thanks for sharing this .
You're welcome Asif, hope all is well! Cheers
drop the music
To say that a marathon starts at mile 20 is like saying a rocket launch first starts at the moon.. It doesn't make any sense! But it sounds good, when you wanne play tough...
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