The main difference between employment and slavery is that the employee gets to choose his master. That is definitely an upgrade from traditional slavery. However, spending one’s entire life looking for the best master is still slavery.
Obviously, you don't know what slavery is. The employer doesn't own you. He is not allowed to harm you physically. The opposite is the case. He has to provide security measures for you. You get PAID. Slaves were lucky if they had enough food. You can leave!!!! And you can be self employed. Nobody forces you to work for an employer. In fact, you have to go through a tough application process. You can say no to mistreatment. You can report to HR for a hostile work environment.
The only true recourse an employee has to a physically harmful job is to seek out a new line of work. New employer = New master. Do as he says, or lose your livelihood. Many jobs are inherently dangerous (meat packing, roofing, coal mining, etc…). OSHA is a paper tiger. They can not save you. To this day, casino employees breathe in second-hand smoke and get lung cancer regularly. OSHA is powerless. And HR departments do not control the nature of the work. You accept the work prescribed for you, or you move along. Have you spent any time in the real world? It doesn’t appear you have.
I wish I discovered the truth about escaping the employment cycle years ago. A lot of individuals have been trapped strongly in the illusion - conform, consume, and obey. Many miss out on life-changing knowledge that could have a profound impact on their freedom.
Even with all the information at our disposal, Ignorance still lurks, you need to constantly seek truth and wisdom in order to break your own chains, manage the awakening process, and stick to your path, through illusion or reality, while also learning and evolving.
My take on this relating to the 9-5 cycle, that which can be taken away by the elite isn't really secure. Therefore, the concept of financial security within their system doesn't make any sense to me. Besides, saving money to live your ideal life in later years isn't really a plan for true prosperity to me.
I lost faith in the system after the '08 crash. Since late 2022, I've been working with a finance advisor and making strategic investments. I'm now just 25% shy of reaching my *$3M* goal and feeling more in control of my financial future.
That’s very impressive !! I’m aware that navigating the finance landscape can be challenging. Would you be open to sharing the contact info of the advisor you've been working with? I'm interested in exploring similar guidance for my financial journey.
My CFA, *Peter Dewitt Martin* is a highly respected expert in the field. I suggest looking up his name to discover his impressive credentials and learn how to tap into his wealth of knowledge. With years of expertise, he is an invaluable asset for anyone seeking to master their financial destiny.
Key Takeaways: - Employees are preferred because they are more reliable and have more to lose, making them less likely to let their employer down. - The system (schools, corporations) trains people to be obedient and dependent, which benefits employers. - There’s a trade-off between security (being an employee) and freedom (being independent), and most people choose security.
Force was only necessary when taking people from other cultures because force was the only way to get them to comply. When you have a large enough population and a system that can indoctrinate the obedience and compliance from youth you don’t need force. All you need is guilt and shame. Then you have a well prepared and willing population ready to do what’s expected of them.
The instability may cause death too, that's what fears an employee. Being free but not being able to pay rent and food is a huge deal. I believe that "being a slave" while preparing our freedom might be key. The difference between a slave and a free man is the mindset. Because at the end of the day we all need food and somewhere to sleep covered.
I agree. You can always be free internally. Nassim also touches on the point that freedom is never free (there is a price to pay - the wolf might get killed by some predator) on his book Skin in the Game
It really depends on how tied to you are to your self concept of someone who is "free". I work for a corporation and have top tier benefits, over a million in retirement, lots of vacation. I have family and friends who own businesses that in fact own them. They can't take a vacation because their businesses would stop. There is a point in business where you can be free-er for sure, but i don't think a lot of small business owners are there. Their business still runs them.
Spot on , freedom is subjective and relative . Imagine coming from an oppressive country and coming to USA and can choose where to work or quit. To that person that is exceptional freedom
Yes but you only have to options. Do as they say because as you are there property. Or you quit. Not saying this is wrong and can be the same as a small buisnes. Both of these scenarios are not anti fragile. Robust maybe but def not anti fragile.
The American corporation has created more wealth for average people than any other organization in history. Obviously, I would rather have absolute “freedom”, to prance around all day tending to my curiosities, perfecting hobbies, working out my body and mind. Sure, it would be nice to have the life of someone without any productive obligation to a human fabric larger than himself. But that’s not the kind of world it is. A corporation and its daily tediousness and cubicles are a godsend compared to life, prosperity, and stability in previous centuries. I’m not really sure what immediate, better alternative people envision. People have to work at the electric plant for us to have electricity to even have these digital conversations.
@erwind917 freedom isn't about prancing around doing what you please. It's the ability to say no. When you are employed then it's not like you can say no to your employer.
I’ve been self employed and also employed in my life, so I’ve seen both sides. I much prefer self employment, even though it is much more difficult. The sense of agency in your own destiny that you get from doing your own thing is priceless. People like to glorify working for yourself but it is the more difficult and stressful path. Also, you aren’t guaranteed any pay for your time spent on your businesses while you are trying to get them established. Different strokes for different folks. If the shoe fits, wear it. No matter which one it is.
there hasnt been a single company that i worked for that was not toxic or abusive. first lesson i learned, never ever be loyal to any company. second lesson, the longer you stay, they more work they dump on you, the longer free hours you work without pay. if that's not the definition of slavery these days, i dont know what is. there was a worker in our service department working 12 to 14 hour days for years. this caused catastrophic problems on her health. she was so afraid of getting fired that she just kept working, and of course the leadership loved the free labor and pocketed it. she had a heart attack at work one day and was left disabled. they had to hire 4 people to do her job. this is why you should never ever be loyal to any company. third lesson i learned, ALWAYS keep looking for the next job, even if you just got a new job. opportunity should always be priority. your loyalty should be to your bank account, not some entity. my first job was an eye opener. it was for an Omnicom agency. they actually had the nerve to cut our salaries to fund executive bonuses. again, like that woman, i was afraid to leave or get fired, and once the layoffs started, that's when my eyes opened. these corporations dont matter. look out for yourself and your health. never burn bridges and always keep good contacts for reference.
@ Yup it’s a race to the bottom. But ultimately if you want to avoid the corporate world it doesn’t mean your bank account will be better off. I wouldn’t touch a corp with a 10 foot pole. I’d rather die to be honest. You definitely have to fend for yourself though. The system doesn’t give a shit about individuals, only making the number go up.
I read purple cow, it changed my life drastically. well partly because I didn't study in MBA or marketing, so I could take in anything which seems simpler to use. Anyways despite not paying much attention to the podcast, I appreciate the dog and the wolf story. This is how I decided my life. I'd rather die as a wolf fighting for my freedom than be a dog and bound by slavery. It's a tough path to walk but it's my path.
You can give up a job, you can not give up being a slave. If one cannot give up a job than they might be a slave of a comfortable life style, not of a employer.
The wolf is no better than a dog. Nature is also quite cruel. These are trade offs. If you are a survivor, independent thinker, and you have the discipline to do what you set your mind to do, then being a wolf is better. But most people are not like that. Most people want material comforts. Safety and security. They are willing to work but not think too much. We outsource the anxiety of decision making, of constantly trying to survive, to be part of a group, lessen our cognitive load, but pay the price of less autonomy. In someways there are more slaves as Taleb describes it, but at the same time we have more creature comforts. Slaves didn't have electricity, cars, running water, tv, internet, vacations, etc. Either way, one struggles. Its tough being a wolf, its tough being a dog, just different kinds of struggle.
I have been reading Byung-Chul Han's "Burnout Society" which mentions the modern manager is both a master and a slave. I myself am a corporate employee. I prefer to just be a slave to being both master and slave personally.
Schools have more roles than just education. It's compliance training, socializing, and letting their parents go to work without worrying about their children imo
This is not true in the government contracting space. Ex-entrepreneurs and military folks are hired all the time, but are often considered “strategic hires” for their connections and to demonstrate deal-specific expertise
I only worked a job for 4 months and those days are the most depressing days of my life im 27 now and i want to be self employed for my whole life and never work a 9to5.
Everyone can not be an entrepreneur, so these unfettered thoughts of acting individually with freedom sound attractive but not practical for all. The equating of employment to slavery is an exaggerated way of creating nuisance value and this is what had made this conversation catchy!
It could very well be that our modern conception of 'work' derives from slavery. If all slave owners get together and say : OK, we'll free our slaves but... we still own all the land, so they can't use it, and need us to eat. Let them choose which slave owner to serve, and also since they're free now they will be responsible for their own shelter as well. Creating structural systems of control, instead of using the brutality of direct control, makes it much harder to perceive the problem but I agree that there's something to this. For me, it all goes back to how we divide value created in corporations. Since price is determined by supply and demand and not some mathematical theory of fair division, the object is to then create demand for labor and restrict its supply. The system as it presently exists is designed to replicate the BENEFITS of slavery model (that is, wealth inequality / preferential status / power over multitudes) in a less obvious way. Oligarchs want the best that the world and life has to offer, and they only get it by organizing the majority in service of their minority interests. Of course the most powerful members of society tell themselves that without 'punishment', the masses would be idle. I don't believe it. All children are born curious, full of energy, brimming with enthusiasm, and want to understand the world and connect with others. It might be possible that the present system creates less total value than a more free system would, but it concentrates value in the hands of a few and that's why it is preferred.
Random thought...there appears to be a natural human need to have dominance or hierarchy over another being. This part of our nature, which may be necessary creates circumstances where we will never have a system of everyone being on the same playing field unless we understand the field is layers of dominance and subordination.
great AI to find this this is my philosophy and it's been working for 20 years and going my quality of life is far better than my nasty headed corporate colleagues
He makes a great point. Employees have it worse than a slave. If you damage a slave you cant sell them. An employee gets let go. This is the real reason for the ever increasing homeless populations. They got their start from refusing to be a slave.
Exactly, I have worked via interim in factories, very physical work. If you get health problems... no payed work hours and you lose the job. A wise slave owner in ancient Rome might have treated slaves better... since if he would have to buy new slaves all the time.
I am lucky that I bought real estate at the absolute bottom in 2010 which coincided with graduating from college. I was a corporate slave and got burned out and disillusioned within 10 years watching idiots get promoted, con artists talk all day and get paid etc. I sold at the very top and dropped off the map and have been off grid ever since.
Timestamps 00:02 - Employment offers stability and commitment rather than just cost efficiency. 01:20 - Employment relationships are akin to ownership and risk management. 02:36 - Employment involves deeper risks and responsibilities than merely assessing probabilities. 03:50 - Employment dynamics emphasize the significance of risk and reputation. 05:05 - Employment risks resemble modern-day slavery due to stakes involved. 06:14 - Employment creates dependency and constrains personal freedom. 07:24 - Employment structures limit freedom, impacting worker motivation. 08:36 - The dog versus wolf dilemma highlights false stability in life choices. Have a great life everyone
And US is unique in that it’s very very hard to get out of this slavery because your healthcare is tied to your employment. If you’re self employed, plans could be quite expensive. Nowhere else in the world is healthcare nearly as expensive. People elsewhere pay out of pockets and their purchasing power is low, naturally hospitals and providers provide low cost options. Not everyone is insured but everyone gets some decent care at affordable prices.
I feel like if you're going to tell the story about the dog and the Wolf you really ought to include the original version where the wolf was a donkey that gets eaten eventually. Those of us who live an "eat what you kill" life have to know that going in.
Compliant slaves are compliant due to fear. Fear is the currency of evil. So admiration of the effectiveness of a slavery system show a lack of integrity, civility, compassion and human decency. The lack of honor has become ubiquitous, unfortunately.
9:06 most underdeveloped countries have a huge stray dog population. The survive just fine and you see them rely on their basic instincts like forming packs.
How is perpetual anxiety about the next contract, the constant hunt for work, any more "free" than regular employment? The contractor may avoid one type of collar but wears another - the psychological collar of constant uncertainty.
Constant uncertainty is absolutely the collar of the employee too, if not more so, though? I’ve heard too many stories of employees doing everything right, then the business itself sinks (due to choices outside their control) or management fires them, or inter-work disputes cause tensions which lead to being let go, and so on. At least when hunting for work, if there’s a system to it you can build evidence that you are likely to get more work. Depending on which industry you are in, of course. In life, all uncertain to a degree!
That's an unfair characterization of employees, as an employee is bound by his circumstances, a slave is bound by his master, and should employees decide to trade security with risky gains it shouldn't be construed as a broken system
Things have changed so much now. 30 yrs ago when job security still existed, it might be a good idea to spend your life working a job if that was what you want, i mean home, car, kids and wife, a classic middle-class life. But look at today's job market. Tell me where the security is? And you tell me to get a job and get a 30 yrs of home mortgage and hope that everything will be just alright? This is probably the worst time to work a job. We need some change on our mindset.
I think the lost of reputation is not what the employee fears. actually the contractors reputation may be even more fragile. the problem for employees is that they are bred into not knowing and being able to do anything useful for the population and their skills are only useful locally.
interesting modern firms who have relied on contractors for efficiency as NT puts it are increasingly trying to have it both ways by piling punishment / expectations on them as they would an employee.
So what is the solution? I know plenty of people that work for themselves and don't look "freer" to me. If you can win more money working for someone else than by yourself are you less free for acting on this choice? Imagine there is a company that is in a position that can capitalize on your skills and execute on your potential you are then suddenly in a frame of bigger productivity allowing more money to be earned by all parties.
Due to high supply of employees and low demand for them and hamster wheel inflation, employees feel like slaves as we work for peanuts in toxic environments and dont have the option to simply change careers or find other employment as some ignorant suggest. I have heard on multiple occasions bosses say "beggars can't be choosers".
In the Old South, a slave owner had to work for years to buy a slave for labor, then provide living accomodations, food, clothing, medical and retirement to the slave. In today's femwelfare system, single mambas not only don't have to work to bet the labor of us slaves but we also have to provide them with medical and retirement.
Ive really thought about this whole idea of lion versus sheep. Sheep can survive a very long time with no lions versus a lion may not survive more then a few weeks without sheep. Settimg ego aside, one may choose to be a sheep when it benefits them, probably the majority of the time and a lion when the opportunity presents itself.
I agree with the ego thing being pushed online suggesting anyone with a job is somehow less than those who strike it out on their own. That being said remember sheep can only survive without protection only when surrounded by other sheep, ANY predator that come across an unguarded flock will have there way with them. The "Lion" has more freedom, can defend himself against other predators, but if he does not hunt (successfully) he does not eat. When he becomes old and frail he has no flock to hide amongst for protection. There is no right way. One is not better than the other. Someone who chooses to work a 9-5 is fine if they are content and happy with that life. Similarly if someone who chooses the freedom and increased risk that comes with going their own way that is also fine so long as the person wants to do so for THEMSELVES. Neither path is "better" than the other. I choose to be self employed. It is something you have to want more than anything including life itself. Yes, I have more freedom, yes my earnings are not capped on the upside. However, I also have relentless pressure, there are no days I can relax (if I want to remain successful). I must be forever vigilant against all challenges seen or unseen, it is all, 100% on me. The downside is uncapped just like the upside. I embrace it now but the first 3 years of transitioning from 9-5 the stress was crushing. But, for me I would rather die than go back to 9-5, that is why I am on this path because it is 100% MUCH more difficult than when I was just an employee, even though financially I am doing significantly better. There is nothing, and I mean NOTHING wrong having a job, providing for your family, in such a way imo.
I’m gen x and the time in life I was employed full time was less than one third of my career. While freelance sounds great, and it can be if you have high level skills, the drawbacks are profound. No mortgage credit without fulltime employment. Drag from buying health insurance, financial stress between “contracts”. Difficulty saving and investing. And soon ACA will be taken away tripling your health insurance and that’s if you can actually get it if you have a pre existing. All this benefits the wealth class and P2025 is a script to entrench wealth are put the masses at each others throats.
What a bizarre, inflammatory way to look at it. The key difference he ignores between a slave and an employee is that an employee can quit and leave whenever they want, a slave doesn't have that choice. There's the big difference in freedom. And yes, an employee sells their services to an employer for a certain period of time every day but if the employee provides benefit to the employer then they will be treated accordingly, if not they can simply move to another employer. The employers want to make money so they will employ and treat well the best employees. The people that feel like slaves are usually the ones that don't provide much and are easily replaced.
Very true. I think this type of extremism is more meant to catch eyeballs than actually assess the situation. I used to be an employee but now I'm a business owner. I have never once looked at my employees as slaves, or felt like a slave when I was employed. Even in my first lowest wage job, I always felt it was just a temporary choice to gain finances. Furthermore, this view cheapens the concept of actual slavery, which is a spectrum, but at its most extreme it's not even closely comparable to any legal employment today.
so the employee can switch slavemasters, some frredom in that I guess, but limited enough to still fall into the slave category. Valuable slaves were less exposed in ancient times also
@@sgtdeluxe Not just switch slavemasters, as you put it, they can become contactors, start their own business, or even not work at all if they've built up enough wealth to sustain their needs. None of these were options to the slave, the slave couldn't just walk away or choose what type of work they wanted to do for a living. The world/society/other people don't owe you food and shelter, if you want to survive you need to put some sort of effort in like every other creature on the planet.
@@acecardinal I've also gone from being an employee to an employer and I totally agree with everything you've said. I don't comment much on TH-cam but it's so disappointing to see a public figure like Taleb fuelling this sort of victim mentality.
He said Roman slaves were freer than modern-day employees. He conceded that the slaves could be beaten or crucified, but still... This struck me as a distinctly non-serious discussion.
You can give your money to the government for 30 years and receive fixed interest rates and full repayment just the same. Is the government then a slave to you? You can also refinance your 7% loan when it drops, you can also pay it off. The underlying asset, a house, also typically outpaces inflation over the same 30 years. You can also let it go, file bankruptcy and do it again in 7 years if you wanted to. Debt is a monetary instrument, not a form of indentured servitude. That’s just being dramatic.
many of us are enslaved by our government and corporations for health insurance. with no coverage, you are done for and lose everything your world so hard for. corporate slavery will never end. if i had universal health insurance, i would have retired at 50.
contractors deal with alot of income uncertainty. unless you know you have a skill or value that is in great demand by some niche its gonna kill you. nassim is interesting but he does make mistakes by his biases. employees trade freedom for stability. its not as simple as Nassim says. everything has its drawbacks and benefits. we make choices that work for our particular situations.
I agree 100% both to Mr. Taleb and to legendary Karl Marx. It’s like manufacturing consent to enslave human being is to call them employee. Borrowing terms from Noam Chomsky. Thank you.
I Guess, The Nobel Prize in economics, Ronald Coase, has a better explanation for the employment phenomena. It is connected with the specifity of the activitity or the asset. When an asset is very specific and important for the business you Will avoid have to purchase it in the market. You will internalize the production by acquiring the provider or hiring the employee. Freedom, wellbeing and quality of life is sonething that employers have to offer competing for the best workforce.
Employees are LOWER than slaves. One must obey or they will lose their livelihood and end up in the street. Slaves dont lose their living quarters or food they just get beaten. Employees lose everything (when they dont comply) AND are beaten whether they do well or poorly. If you follow the path where you refuse to play you will be homeless because your search for better life will fail and you will appear to be a flake leading to being turned down for work when you exercise your assumed freedom to go elsewhere.
Then how is that capitalism if the employees are going to be blacklisted in their chosen industry because they find better opportunities? Makes no sense
Companies have employees because they want to own them. Contracting would be way more cost effective. But then again contracting surprisingly isn't as effective. The fear of punishment actually accomplishes the goal. If contracting worked, companies would do it cuz it's cheaper.
People look for a certainty, they don't care about the math problems or about Nasim and his books. My employees can walk away whenever they fancy, and some of them do. Taleb is a fancy guy to say the least, I read all his books, and then we got Tweeter... There is something terribly wrong with his brain, I mean physically.
Most employees are debt slaves. This is why they are slaves. It's because they have bought into the debt-based economic system too much that makes them dependent on debt. They have also bought into the trappings of consumerism. Employees who are not debt-dependent and who have not adopted a consumer mindset are free.
@@PickingNuggets Bad debt means that you have no control over yourself. if you have no control over yourself, who controls you? Someone else controls you. If someone else controls you, you are a slave. The more money you have, the more economically free you are. Too much money can also be a very big problem. Do you control the money or does the money control you? This is not as bad as having bad debt. However, having too much money comes with its own sets of problems. Enjoy your life my friend! Have fun and be of service to your fellow human being.
Comparison between a slave and an employee is missing one big thing. ✔️ Roman empire slave could not quit and go somewhere else, like another city/village ✔️ Employee can easily move to another city/province and sometimes even another country. Slave < Employee
📚 Find key nuggets from 1,000+ non-fiction books on Shortform - shortform.com/pickingnuggets
(Get a 5-day FREE trial and a 20% discount!)
The main difference between employment and slavery is that the employee gets to choose his master. That is definitely an upgrade from traditional slavery. However, spending one’s entire life looking for the best master is still slavery.
And employees must provide their own housing, unlike the past when slaves lived on their master's property.
Unless the town actually owns the job market (the only employer). Current job market is monopolized in many countries
Obviously, you don't know what slavery is. The employer doesn't own you. He is not allowed to harm you physically. The opposite is the case. He has to provide security measures for you.
You get PAID. Slaves were lucky if they had enough food.
You can leave!!!! And you can be self employed. Nobody forces you to work for an employer. In fact, you have to go through a tough application process.
You can say no to mistreatment. You can report to HR for a hostile work environment.
The only true recourse an employee has to a physically harmful job is to seek out a new line of work. New employer = New master. Do as he says, or lose your livelihood. Many jobs are inherently dangerous (meat packing, roofing, coal mining, etc…). OSHA is a paper tiger. They can not save you. To this day, casino employees breathe in second-hand smoke and get lung cancer regularly. OSHA is powerless. And HR departments do not control the nature of the work. You accept the work prescribed for you, or you move along. Have you spent any time in the real world? It doesn’t appear you have.
Well said!
I wish I discovered the truth about escaping the employment cycle years ago. A lot of individuals have been trapped strongly in the illusion - conform, consume, and obey. Many miss out on life-changing knowledge that could have a profound impact on their freedom.
Even with all the information at our disposal, Ignorance still lurks, you need to constantly seek truth and wisdom in order to break your own chains, manage the awakening process, and stick to your path, through illusion or reality, while also learning and evolving.
My take on this relating to the 9-5 cycle, that which can be taken away by the elite isn't really secure. Therefore, the concept of financial security within their system doesn't make any sense to me. Besides, saving money to live your ideal life in later years isn't really a plan for true prosperity to me.
I lost faith in the system after the '08 crash. Since late 2022, I've been working with a finance advisor and making strategic investments. I'm now just 25% shy of reaching my *$3M* goal and feeling more in control of my financial future.
That’s very impressive !! I’m aware that navigating the finance landscape can be challenging. Would you be open to sharing the contact info of the advisor you've been working with? I'm interested in exploring similar guidance for my financial journey.
My CFA, *Peter Dewitt Martin* is a highly respected expert in the field. I suggest looking up his name to discover his impressive credentials and learn how to tap into his wealth of knowledge. With years of expertise, he is an invaluable asset for anyone seeking to master their financial destiny.
Key Takeaways:
- Employees are preferred because they are more reliable and have more to lose, making them less likely to let their employer down.
- The system (schools, corporations) trains people to be obedient and dependent, which benefits employers.
- There’s a trade-off between security (being an employee) and freedom (being independent), and most people choose security.
great takeaways!
💯
not even security
just the illusion of security
your boss can ax you at any time LOL
Force was only necessary when taking people from other cultures because force was the only way to get them to comply.
When you have a large enough population and a system that can indoctrinate the obedience and compliance from youth you don’t need force. All you need is guilt and shame.
Then you have a well prepared and willing population ready to do what’s expected of them.
Dont forget that its Business. Not personal.
Who wants to have employees that go against the grain in the company?
The instability may cause death too, that's what fears an employee.
Being free but not being able to pay rent and food is a huge deal.
I believe that "being a slave" while preparing our freedom might be key.
The difference between a slave and a free man is the mindset.
Because at the end of the day we all need food and somewhere to sleep covered.
I agree. You can always be free internally. Nassim also touches on the point that freedom is never free (there is a price to pay - the wolf might get killed by some predator) on his book Skin in the Game
If you have to pay rent you're not free either.
@@luizmonad777 hundred percent agree!
@@PickingNuggets yes, agree. The dog pays the price for the security. The wolf pays the price for the freedom
Life itself is a prison
It really depends on how tied to you are to your self concept of someone who is "free". I work for a corporation and have top tier benefits, over a million in retirement, lots of vacation. I have family and friends who own businesses that in fact own them. They can't take a vacation because their businesses would stop. There is a point in business where you can be free-er for sure, but i don't think a lot of small business owners are there. Their business still runs them.
Spot on , freedom is subjective and relative . Imagine coming from an oppressive country and coming to USA and can choose where to work or quit. To that person that is exceptional freedom
Yes but you only have to options. Do as they say because as you are there property. Or you quit. Not saying this is wrong and can be the same as a small buisnes. Both of these scenarios are not anti fragile. Robust maybe but def not anti fragile.
The American corporation has created more wealth for average people than any other organization in history.
Obviously, I would rather have absolute “freedom”, to prance around all day tending to my curiosities, perfecting hobbies, working out my body and mind. Sure, it would be nice to have the life of someone without any productive obligation to a human fabric larger than himself. But that’s not the kind of world it is. A corporation and its daily tediousness and cubicles are a godsend compared to life, prosperity, and stability in previous centuries. I’m not really sure what immediate, better alternative people envision. People have to work at the electric plant for us to have electricity to even have these digital conversations.
@erwind917 freedom isn't about prancing around doing what you please. It's the ability to say no. When you are employed then it's not like you can say no to your employer.
@@Tabktopless-z9b You can ALWAYS say No. You just have to embrace the risk to be also rejected. If you say No - you got to take a No and move on.
I’ve been self employed and also employed in my life, so I’ve seen both sides. I much prefer self employment, even though it is much more difficult. The sense of agency in your own destiny that you get from doing your own thing is priceless.
People like to glorify working for yourself but it is the more difficult and stressful path. Also, you aren’t guaranteed any pay for your time spent on your businesses while you are trying to get them established.
Different strokes for different folks. If the shoe fits, wear it. No matter which one it is.
there hasnt been a single company that i worked for that was not toxic or abusive. first lesson i learned, never ever be loyal to any company. second lesson, the longer you stay, they more work they dump on you, the longer free hours you work without pay. if that's not the definition of slavery these days, i dont know what is. there was a worker in our service department working 12 to 14 hour days for years. this caused catastrophic problems on her health. she was so afraid of getting fired that she just kept working, and of course the leadership loved the free labor and pocketed it. she had a heart attack at work one day and was left disabled. they had to hire 4 people to do her job. this is why you should never ever be loyal to any company. third lesson i learned, ALWAYS keep looking for the next job, even if you just got a new job. opportunity should always be priority. your loyalty should be to your bank account, not some entity. my first job was an eye opener. it was for an Omnicom agency. they actually had the nerve to cut our salaries to fund executive bonuses. again, like that woman, i was afraid to leave or get fired, and once the layoffs started, that's when my eyes opened. these corporations dont matter. look out for yourself and your health. never burn bridges and always keep good contacts for reference.
@ Yup it’s a race to the bottom. But ultimately if you want to avoid the corporate world it doesn’t mean your bank account will be better off. I wouldn’t touch a corp with a 10 foot pole. I’d rather die to be honest. You definitely have to fend for yourself though. The system doesn’t give a shit about individuals, only making the number go up.
And that's why corruption runs rampant in corporations because the employees(slaves) don't want to ruin their reputation with their masters.
100% enlightening. This is esp true if you work in finance or big tech.
I love this format, thank you for putting this together.
Glad you enjoy it!
It has been very fascinating to watch your channel grow.
Thanks mate!
I read purple cow, it changed my life drastically. well partly because I didn't study in MBA or marketing, so I could take in anything which seems simpler to use.
Anyways despite not paying much attention to the podcast, I appreciate the dog and the wolf story. This is how I decided my life. I'd rather die as a wolf fighting for my freedom than be a dog and bound by slavery. It's a tough path to walk but it's my path.
Purple Cow is a great book!
If you don't mind me asking...could you please tell me in which line of business are you in??
@ solo game developer developing my own game project.
The interviewer doesn’t get it: Employment IS slavery.
I think an actual slave would disagree...
@@rodrigom6040 more like voluntary indentured servitude
You can give up a job, you can not give up being a slave. If one cannot give up a job than they might be a slave of a comfortable life style, not of a employer.
Great niche channel man. Respect the hustle
thanks!
The wolf is no better than a dog. Nature is also quite cruel. These are trade offs. If you are a survivor, independent thinker, and you have the discipline to do what you set your mind to do, then being a wolf is better. But most people are not like that. Most people want material comforts. Safety and security. They are willing to work but not think too much. We outsource the anxiety of decision making, of constantly trying to survive, to be part of a group, lessen our cognitive load, but pay the price of less autonomy.
In someways there are more slaves as Taleb describes it, but at the same time we have more creature comforts. Slaves didn't have electricity, cars, running water, tv, internet, vacations, etc. Either way, one struggles. Its tough being a wolf, its tough being a dog, just different kinds of struggle.
Good take
I have been reading Byung-Chul Han's "Burnout Society" which mentions the modern manager is both a master and a slave. I myself am a corporate employee. I prefer to just be a slave to being both master and slave personally.
If you take it I believe kids can complete the syllabus of of two years in single year , they don't need 6-7 hours schools
Schools have more roles than just education. It's compliance training, socializing, and letting their parents go to work without worrying about their children imo
Perperual Enslaving so that the Government can tax their asses.@PickingNuggets
Great topic, underrated content
Much appreciated!
Great knowledge!
thank you!
great summary, much appreciated. great graphics.
Glad it was helpful!
This is absolutely true. That's why HR never hire ex-entrepreneurs and military folks, never.
This is not true in the government contracting space. Ex-entrepreneurs and military folks are hired all the time, but are often considered “strategic hires” for their connections and to demonstrate deal-specific expertise
I only worked a job for 4 months and those days are the most depressing days of my life im 27 now and i want to be self employed for my whole life and never work a 9to5.
prepare to work 9 to 9 and weekends
It's okay to have a job for stability until you have enough investments to live off
You need to study client-contractor relationships friend. The Futur channel touches on this quite a bit. That and specialize. Slow and steady now...
I think we all need freedom to work on anything we like rather than freedom from work.
@@goldencatpatyeah but at least that 9 to 9 is on YOURSELF!
Everyone can not be an entrepreneur, so these unfettered thoughts of acting individually with freedom sound attractive but not practical for all.
The equating of employment to slavery is an exaggerated way of creating nuisance value and this is what had made this conversation catchy!
It could very well be that our modern conception of 'work' derives from slavery. If all slave owners get together and say : OK, we'll free our slaves but... we still own all the land, so they can't use it, and need us to eat. Let them choose which slave owner to serve, and also since they're free now they will be responsible for their own shelter as well. Creating structural systems of control, instead of using the brutality of direct control, makes it much harder to perceive the problem but I agree that there's something to this.
For me, it all goes back to how we divide value created in corporations. Since price is determined by supply and demand and not some mathematical theory of fair division, the object is to then create demand for labor and restrict its supply. The system as it presently exists is designed to replicate the BENEFITS of slavery model (that is, wealth inequality / preferential status / power over multitudes) in a less obvious way. Oligarchs want the best that the world and life has to offer, and they only get it by organizing the majority in service of their minority interests.
Of course the most powerful members of society tell themselves that without 'punishment', the masses would be idle. I don't believe it. All children are born curious, full of energy, brimming with enthusiasm, and want to understand the world and connect with others. It might be possible that the present system creates less total value than a more free system would, but it concentrates value in the hands of a few and that's why it is preferred.
Random thought...there appears to be a natural human need to have dominance or hierarchy over another being. This part of our nature, which may be necessary creates circumstances where we will never have a system of everyone being on the same playing field unless we understand the field is layers of dominance and subordination.
💡 Excellent thought piece here! I enjoyed reading this!
great AI to find this this is my philosophy and it's been working for 20 years and going my quality of life is far better than my nasty headed corporate colleagues
dang..."if you damage a slave, you cannot sell them, so you lose market value, with an employee its not the same"
Employees are much more expendable and easily replaceable than slaves
what if you're an emplyee to learn a craft you love from someone whos knows it better? its not alwyas so cut and dry
Sounds like an apprentice!
My business teacher said to do just that if you want to eventually go on your own in that type of business.
Nasim is darned good! He’s one of few voices worth listening to these days
He makes a great point. Employees have it worse than a slave. If you damage a slave you cant sell them. An employee gets let go. This is the real reason for the ever increasing homeless populations. They got their start from refusing to be a slave.
Exactly, I have worked via interim in factories, very physical work. If you get health problems... no payed work hours and you lose the job. A wise slave owner in ancient Rome might have treated slaves better... since if he would have to buy new slaves all the time.
Man has dominated man to his own injury.
A reputation hit is worst for contractors than for employees.
the mechanisms for informing other clients among contractors has been less developed...
Love this topic
I am lucky that I bought real estate at the absolute bottom in 2010 which coincided with graduating from college. I was a corporate slave and got burned out and disillusioned within 10 years watching idiots get promoted, con artists talk all day and get paid etc. I sold at the very top and dropped off the map and have been off grid ever since.
Appreciate this!
Wish you uploaded a bit more frequently but the value that's packed in each one makes it worthwhile.
Appreciate that 🙏
It is Conditioning of the Pain - Reward in the Auto Pilot leading to all sorts of Addictions and Malware in the Auto Pilot creating a Mind Prison
Yes. This.
Timestamps
00:02 - Employment offers stability and commitment rather than just cost efficiency.
01:20 - Employment relationships are akin to ownership and risk management.
02:36 - Employment involves deeper risks and responsibilities than merely assessing probabilities.
03:50 - Employment dynamics emphasize the significance of risk and reputation.
05:05 - Employment risks resemble modern-day slavery due to stakes involved.
06:14 - Employment creates dependency and constrains personal freedom.
07:24 - Employment structures limit freedom, impacting worker motivation.
08:36 - The dog versus wolf dilemma highlights false stability in life choices.
Have a great life everyone
nicolas, i am a former trader like.
working in investment bank was the real hell. i done like u, after having learned i set up by myself.
thks
Very insightful about Prophet Joseph!
⚠️ Slavery was never abolished, it has been renamed to a 9 to 5 job.
And US is unique in that it’s very very hard to get out of this slavery because your healthcare is tied to your employment. If you’re self employed, plans could be quite expensive. Nowhere else in the world is healthcare nearly as expensive. People elsewhere pay out of pockets and their purchasing power is low, naturally hospitals and providers provide low cost options. Not everyone is insured but everyone gets some decent care at affordable prices.
I feel like if you're going to tell the story about the dog and the Wolf you really ought to include the original version where the wolf was a donkey that gets eaten eventually. Those of us who live an "eat what you kill" life have to know that going in.
I agree! Nassim touches on this in the book also
Nassim is amazing
Compliant slaves are compliant due to fear. Fear is the currency of evil. So admiration of the effectiveness of a slavery system show a lack of integrity, civility, compassion and human decency. The lack of honor has become ubiquitous, unfortunately.
It took until halfway through for the host to let Nassim make his point
9:06 most underdeveloped countries have a huge stray dog population. The survive just fine and you see them rely on their basic instincts like forming packs.
the weak die off and the survivors become wolflike
@@sgtdeluxe not really, when you encounter them they look for attention and food. Wolves would tear you apart
@@GBOAC true - because it works for them, however they are subject to quick evolutionary pressure as the lifespan and time between generations is less
How is perpetual anxiety about the next contract, the constant hunt for work, any more "free" than regular employment? The contractor may avoid one type of collar but wears another - the psychological collar of constant uncertainty.
Constant uncertainty is absolutely the collar of the employee too, if not more so, though? I’ve heard too many stories of employees doing everything right, then the business itself sinks (due to choices outside their control) or management fires them, or inter-work disputes cause tensions which lead to being let go, and so on.
At least when hunting for work, if there’s a system to it you can build evidence that you are likely to get more work. Depending on which industry you are in, of course. In life, all uncertain to a degree!
That's an unfair characterization of employees, as an employee is bound by his circumstances, a slave is bound by his master, and should employees decide to trade security with risky gains it shouldn't be construed as a broken system
Naive, but you will grow wiser with age young one.
I’d rather die at 65 and truly live free than work until 65
I’d rather work till I drop dead at 95. It will take every bit of that time to accomplish the things I want to accomplish.
@ hope you make it that far but statistically you won’t
@@humanbeing5300 I’ll go as long as I can
Working for Royal Mail is toxic 😢
Realized what being an direct employee was at 22. Contractor ever since
Things have changed so much now. 30 yrs ago when job security still existed, it might be a good idea to spend your life working a job if that was what you want, i mean home, car, kids and wife, a classic middle-class life. But look at today's job market. Tell me where the security is? And you tell me to get a job and get a 30 yrs of home mortgage and hope that everything will be just alright? This is probably the worst time to work a job. We need some change on our mindset.
I think the lost of reputation is not what the employee fears. actually the contractors reputation may be even more fragile. the problem for employees is that they are bred into not knowing and being able to do anything useful for the population and their skills are only useful locally.
Slavery never ended. The chains simply went from iron to electronic.
interesting modern firms who have relied on contractors for efficiency as NT puts it are increasingly trying to have it both ways by piling punishment / expectations on them as they would an employee.
“You can only fire an employee”… on the contrary
Any time you need to work to survive. You are a modern day slave. Its that simple. Which is why you need to work on your own hustle in your free time.
Depends highly on the industry. In some places employees have way more bargaining power.
The audio is only on the left side for this video. Weird
Oh, could you please tell me from which device you are playing it ?
Edgy teenagers are gonna love this
So what is the solution? I know plenty of people that work for themselves and don't look "freer" to me. If you can win more money working for someone else than by yourself are you less free for acting on this choice? Imagine there is a company that is in a position that can capitalize on your skills and execute on your potential you are then suddenly in a frame of bigger productivity allowing more money to be earned by all parties.
So many are wondering right now “why are we employed?”
key takeaway for me is not being too dependent of a single source of income
Employee is just a pawni in some one else's game
Due to high supply of employees and low demand for them and hamster wheel inflation, employees feel like slaves as we work for peanuts in toxic environments and dont have the option to simply change careers or find other employment as some ignorant suggest. I have heard on multiple occasions bosses say "beggars can't be choosers".
In the Old South, a slave owner had to work for years to buy a slave for labor, then provide living accomodations, food, clothing, medical and retirement to the slave. In today's femwelfare system, single mambas not only don't have to work to bet the labor of us slaves but we also have to provide them with medical and retirement.
Ive really thought about this whole idea of lion versus sheep.
Sheep can survive a very long time with no lions versus a lion may not survive more then a few weeks without sheep. Settimg ego aside, one may choose to be a sheep when it benefits them, probably the majority of the time and a lion when the opportunity presents itself.
I agree with the ego thing being pushed online suggesting anyone with a job is somehow less than those who strike it out on their own.
That being said remember sheep can only survive without protection only when surrounded by other sheep, ANY predator that come across an unguarded flock will have there way with them.
The "Lion" has more freedom, can defend himself against other predators, but if he does not hunt (successfully) he does not eat. When he becomes old and frail he has no flock to hide amongst for protection.
There is no right way. One is not better than the other. Someone who chooses to work a 9-5 is fine if they are content and happy with that life. Similarly if someone who chooses the freedom and increased risk that comes with going their own way that is also fine so long as the person wants to do so for THEMSELVES.
Neither path is "better" than the other.
I choose to be self employed. It is something you have to want more than anything including life itself. Yes, I have more freedom, yes my earnings are not capped on the upside. However, I also have relentless pressure, there are no days I can relax (if I want to remain successful). I must be forever vigilant against all challenges seen or unseen, it is all, 100% on me. The downside is uncapped just like the upside. I embrace it now but the first 3 years of transitioning from 9-5 the stress was crushing. But, for me I would rather die than go back to 9-5, that is why I am on this path because it is 100% MUCH more difficult than when I was just an employee, even though financially I am doing significantly better.
There is nothing, and I mean NOTHING wrong having a job, providing for your family, in such a way imo.
Contractors also have reputation to lose.
At the end you should compare the life span of the wolf and the dog )
I agree.
"As is a tale, so is life: not how long it is, but how good it is, is what matters."
I’m gen x and the time in life I was employed full time was less than one third of my career. While freelance sounds great, and it can be if you have high level skills, the drawbacks are profound. No mortgage credit without fulltime employment. Drag from buying health insurance, financial stress between “contracts”. Difficulty saving and investing. And soon ACA will be taken away tripling your health insurance and that’s if you can actually get it if you have a pre existing. All this benefits the wealth class and P2025 is a script to entrench wealth are put the masses at each others throats.
Do we lose more by being employed vs what we gain?
Super
The truth: if you were born poor, you'll be an employee or a slave, depending just on the social arrangement of the age.
😂 Triggered something deep within the NPCs 😂
Doesn't the contractor need to build a good reputation too??
If I pay in a worthless IOU the employee is a slave, an IOU income tax debt slave.
What a bizarre, inflammatory way to look at it. The key difference he ignores between a slave and an employee is that an employee can quit and leave whenever they want, a slave doesn't have that choice. There's the big difference in freedom.
And yes, an employee sells their services to an employer for a certain period of time every day but if the employee provides benefit to the employer then they will be treated accordingly, if not they can simply move to another employer. The employers want to make money so they will employ and treat well the best employees. The people that feel like slaves are usually the ones that don't provide much and are easily replaced.
Very true. I think this type of extremism is more meant to catch eyeballs than actually assess the situation. I used to be an employee but now I'm a business owner. I have never once looked at my employees as slaves, or felt like a slave when I was employed. Even in my first lowest wage job, I always felt it was just a temporary choice to gain finances.
Furthermore, this view cheapens the concept of actual slavery, which is a spectrum, but at its most extreme it's not even closely comparable to any legal employment today.
so the employee can switch slavemasters, some frredom in that I guess, but limited enough to still fall into the slave category. Valuable slaves were less exposed in ancient times also
@@sgtdeluxe Not just switch slavemasters, as you put it, they can become contactors, start their own business, or even not work at all if they've built up enough wealth to sustain their needs. None of these were options to the slave, the slave couldn't just walk away or choose what type of work they wanted to do for a living. The world/society/other people don't owe you food and shelter, if you want to survive you need to put some sort of effort in like every other creature on the planet.
@@acecardinal I've also gone from being an employee to an employer and I totally agree with everything you've said. I don't comment much on TH-cam but it's so disappointing to see a public figure like Taleb fuelling this sort of victim mentality.
bro, I just got hired by big banking corporation here in Russia. You demotivated me 😂
hahaha
He said Roman slaves were freer than modern-day employees. He conceded that the slaves could be beaten or crucified, but still...
This struck me as a distinctly non-serious discussion.
Employees could also die on the job, happen everyday across the world.
@ Employees don't die by the hands of their employer. Slaves do. Be serious.
What is a 30 year mortgage at 7% interest?
Bonded slave?
@@marianhunt8899 yep
You can give your money to the government for 30 years and receive fixed interest rates and full repayment just the same. Is the government then a slave to you?
You can also refinance your 7% loan when it drops, you can also pay it off.
The underlying asset, a house, also typically outpaces inflation over the same 30 years.
You can also let it go, file bankruptcy and do it again in 7 years if you wanted to.
Debt is a monetary instrument, not a form of indentured servitude. That’s just being dramatic.
many of us are enslaved by our government and corporations for health insurance. with no coverage, you are done for and lose everything your world so hard for. corporate slavery will never end. if i had universal health insurance, i would have retired at 50.
Yes, I was always indoctrinated that Universal Healthcare was bad.
Employees and Consumerism. Is the new slavery.
This content is basically gold… could you please make a video that recommends the books read by Naval Ravikant that shaped his mind set ?
th-cam.com/video/FOcD1ngbsXk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=dJDsCw_qrIw4_aA4
contractors deal with alot of income uncertainty. unless you know you have a skill or value that is in great demand by some niche its gonna kill you. nassim is interesting but he does make mistakes by his biases. employees trade freedom for stability. its not as simple as Nassim says. everything has its drawbacks and benefits. we make choices that work for our particular situations.
Marx wrote about this kind of compulsion as well in Capital.
I will have to check it out!
I agree 100% both to Mr. Taleb and to legendary Karl Marx. It’s like manufacturing consent to enslave human being is to call them employee. Borrowing terms from Noam Chomsky. Thank you.
I Guess, The Nobel Prize in economics, Ronald Coase, has a better explanation for the employment phenomena. It is connected with the specifity of the activitity or the asset. When an asset is very specific and important for the business you Will avoid have to purchase it in the market. You will internalize the production by acquiring the provider or hiring the employee.
Freedom, wellbeing and quality of life is sonething that employers have to offer competing for the best workforce.
There’s 900 million dogs alive in the world presently and only 200,000 wolves. Looks like dogs are having no problem surviving compared to wolves.
You dont get it
Sounds like a good representative ratio of employees vs owners. Your slave mentality is showing, and I’m fine with that.
Ok sheep
900 million dogs vs. 8 billion people?...Bro, that means most of the world's population probably has never had a pet dog. 😅
Bad final example. Id rather be a dog anyway haha
Employees are LOWER than slaves. One must obey or they will lose their livelihood and end up in the street. Slaves dont lose their living quarters or food they just get beaten. Employees lose everything (when they dont comply) AND are beaten whether they do well or poorly. If you follow the path where you refuse to play you will be homeless because your search for better life will fail and you will appear to be a flake leading to being turned down for work when you exercise your assumed freedom to go elsewhere.
what about those who are unemployed tho?
What happens when there are too many wolves?
Then how is that capitalism if the employees are going to be blacklisted in their chosen industry because they find better opportunities? Makes no sense
I'm glad I got my bad reputation holding me up high.
I'd hate to be down there ✓
Employee= Indentured servant.
Thanks for the video
Companies have employees because they want to own them. Contracting would be way more cost effective.
But then again contracting surprisingly isn't as effective.
The fear of punishment actually accomplishes the goal.
If contracting worked, companies would do it cuz it's cheaper.
Companies do do it.
They do have contractors and sub- contractors. That's when no one is held accountable for screw ups
People look for a certainty, they don't care about the math problems or about Nasim and his books.
My employees can walk away whenever they fancy, and some of them do.
Taleb is a fancy guy to say the least, I read all his books, and then we got Tweeter...
There is something terribly wrong with his brain, I mean physically.
IMO the human condition is way more complex than master and slave
Most employees are debt slaves. This is why they are slaves. It's because they have bought into the debt-based economic system too much that makes them dependent on debt. They have also bought into the trappings of consumerism. Employees who are not debt-dependent and who have not adopted a consumer mindset are free.
Nassim also talks about this one another talk. Bad debt makes you fragile!
@@PickingNuggets Bad debt means that you have no control over yourself. if you have no control over yourself, who controls you? Someone else controls you. If someone else controls you, you are a slave. The more money you have, the more economically free you are. Too much money can also be a very big problem. Do you control the money or does the money control you? This is not as bad as having bad debt. However, having too much money comes with its own sets of problems. Enjoy your life my friend! Have fun and be of service to your fellow human being.
Comparison between a slave and an employee is missing one big thing.
✔️ Roman empire slave could not quit and go somewhere else, like another city/village
✔️ Employee can easily move to another city/province and sometimes even another country.
Slave < Employee
Yes, but only theoretically. 99,9% employees stay because of fear...