What People Get Wrong About Nonbinary Folks
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มี.ค. 2019
- A better, more recent video on this: • Everyone is Attracted ...
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This part resonated with me so much:
"Some people have a philosophy of inclusiveness that extends to their identity, but that's not the same thing as sexual orientation. I think it's weird to enforce this cultural idea that being attracted to non-binary is something special and weird. [...] And I think that telling non-binary people that only a specific kind of person can like and be attracted to you is unfair and not actually realistic and not genuine to the experience of being a nonbinary person." because lesbians date non-binary people, straight people can date non-binary people, lots of types of people date non-binary people.
BRILLIANT, thank you for sharing this, I feel like I understand a lot more now.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching! =D
I’m an afab, feminine, nonbinary person. I might not feel like a woman internally, but I still like feminine things and I have the feminine characteristics of a woman like a large chest and wide hips. I may dress somewhat androgynously at times, but I will still be gendered as a woman.
And I accept that, for the most part, because I don’t feel like getting into a debate about my gender every time I leave the house. If people want to call me a woman, then fine, they don’t know any better. It doesn’t really affect me.
But, like if someone who is typically attracted to women, or feminine individuals, was attracted to me and I told them I was nonbinary, I would hope that wouldn’t really be an issue.
Assuming they aren’t just generally enbyphobic, I would hope my being nonbinary wouldn’t require them to suddenly have like an internal crisis or something about their sexuality, you know?
But that kind of attitude, that only certain kinds of people can be attracted to a nonbinary person, has made me hesitant to put myself out there. On a dating site or something, I wouldn’t want someone to see the word nonbinary and immediately think “oh not my type then” without even giving me a chance.
I don’t even know where I’m going with this. This video just brought up a lot of feelings, and I felt the need to write them out.
Basically I’m just grateful for you putting this out there. While nonbinary people do identify outside of the gender binary, we aren’t suddenly so physically alien that most people can’t be attracted to us. We’re still human and want relationships. ☺️
I relate to this 100000000000% :c
I think it's fine to not show your personal identity to other people. Most people don't need to know how you think of yourself, and if they make uninformed prejudiced assumptions, it's their world that gets smaller and less colorful, not ours.
I liked the labels of agender and bisexual for myself, but I wouldn't let someone know unless I thought it would do good, like with my close friends, those who are able to understand and support my journey. The takeaway is that I think it's ok to not tell everybody your gender identity. Why reveal information to people who do not mean you good?
this is exactly why is started to introduce the term "female people" instead of "women". for some contexts, like "same sex attracted" instead of "attracted to women".
Hey, I know this is old, but my partner fits all this. They're enby and very feminine and conventionally attractive in a feminine way. Honestly when I found out they're non binary it did take me some time to adjust and to train myself to use different pronouns and a new name for them. My identity didn't change much, but it was still grieving an idea of a person and I had to do it if I wanted my partner to be as free and bold and authentic as they can be. And now I'm happier than ever. This only brought us closer and I'm not surprised since I vibe with trans people and enbies more.
Whether you transition in some way or not you're valid and there's absolutely people who'd happily date you.
I think this idea of non-binary people as “other” is what makes me kinda hesitant to discuss my identity with other people, I feel female most of the time, so I just end up calling myself a woman instead of trying to explain the overlap between certain gender identities
Yeah, I feel like it's hard to explain how we feel gender to other ppl
I’ve very recently started questioning my gender identity and this helped me make some sense of my thoughts, thank you
I do find it weird that there's no good word for _being_ attracted to androgyny and genderqueerness though.
Better this way I think
@@italucenaz Yeah I think so too
Yeah I am ace and probably nonbinary or agender but I have an aesthetic attraction to an inbetweeness ...but I think it is rooted partially in dysphoria for myself. But I think it is okay though if there is not quite a word for it.
if youre talking about gender expression i think thats just your type.
@@ultraboombean aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, me too!
I have been on a bit of a binge of both your content (since I discovered recently) and Adam Savage's Tested, and it made me think of this famous quote Adam said on mythbusters (that is attributed to him even though he didn't come up with it) which I think fits nicely in how non-binary fucks with gender: "I reject your reality, and substitute my own".
It encapsulates perfectly the feeling, to me, that the binary just doesn't *work*, and I'm gonna do my own thing.
At this point I'm convinced that within maybe 30 years we won't be using the words we do anymore. It's already getting to a complete mindfuck point where presentation and sex characteristics and identities mean almost nothing. Does lesbian mean you like only vaginas? Or only feminine people? Where do butch lesbians fit in? How many different interpretations can there be before it doesn't mean a thing?
I'm going to temper this by saying that I'm agender and bisexual so when I say I'm confused I literally mean nothing about it makes sense to me because I've never experienced 1. Having a gender or 2. Having gender/sex specific attraction.
love the idea of nonbinary people breaking gender and sexuality. i know some nb people find their partners continuing to identify as gay/straight while being with them to be disrespectful of their gender. i'm nb and i think i would be fine with it as long as they took on a more expanded definition of what those words mean. i kinda like the idea that i could make straight men instantly queer just by them being attracted to me though haha
Your speech is really beautiful, it touches my heart
This is basically how I always saw it, but in recent years I have been sort of bludgeoned into not seeing it this way, at least not entirely, mainly because I don't want to exclude anyone who feels differently, but I still really appreciate this perspective on the issue. Also that's a gorgeous look you have here, just awkwardly throwing that in there too, sorry.
Thank you so much for this video and your complete open-ness about the topic. It's something I have often wondered about but I feel like doesn't often get discussed.
And explanation for sexual orientations I love is that being gay is being "attracted to people of a similar gender to yourself". Not the same gender necessarily, just a similar one. I feel like this makes it so much simpler than the very specific and binary way of describing sexuality and gender that has kind of developed. I don't call myself a woman but I am more feminine, and I'm generally attracted to people who are not masculine, and that makes sense! It took me so long to come to this conclusion because many of the mainstream terms and definitions make it very confusing and specific when it doesn't need to be, and I really feel this is a result of trying to adapt a system that was created during a period of time where it wasn't really accepted into a time where it is without full modification. It's something that I very much hope gets revised in the near future so that the next generations can have an easier time understanding themselves without having contradicting terms and opinions thrown at them all the time (speaking from personal experience)
Exactly!! Thank you so much for this. Anyone can be attracted to non binary people. I always thought this and told people that ceterosexuality and skolisexuality ( Being sexually attracted ONLY to non binary people) isn't real and i was called transphobic lol
im so happy i found your channel. this, what yiu are saying, is so mind blowing and so so so true and comforting somehow to me and my gender identity. i really love listening to you talking
As someone who’s Indian and Hindu I refused to believe for a long time that historically in the West people outside of the gender binary have been considered to be fake. It’s such a strange concept. Like I mean how strange would it be to have a culture that doesn’t believe that women don’t exist?
I KNOW THIS VIDEO IS 2 YEARS OLD BUT THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING, THANK YOU
I really like and agree with your message here. But I implore you to be careful with your use of the word "anarchy". It perpetuates the false idea of anarchy as a chaotic and lawless state of being, which it precisely is not. Anarchism is both a method of analysis and a category of political ideologies. To have anarchy is to have order in a system without unjustified authority.
Or without unjustifiable hierarchies… like the hierarchies and categorization systems of gender and sexuality that we have in society… so doing away with those would be… gender anarchy. I think she used the word 100% appropriately.
Despite being cisgender, i COMPLETELY AGREE that the gender system is insufficient and the fact that we created our system of sexual orientation around the binary system was fucked from the getgo. It doesn't mean the system doesnt still have utility to us all (afterall, i identify aa bisexual), but we also need to acknowledge its flaws.
For me, i try to take my attraction as it comes. But then monosexuals freak out when theyre like but then how can i be attracted to non binary people? Or other trans people (which is usually them just being a tad transphobic). But we gotta learn that the world is too varied to see our systems of sexuality or gender as so set in stone.
yooo this makes so much sense
I love that 1 2 blullululu
love this
So glad that I'm not the one! Doubly breaking the system!
I mean, as you stated, there's no one way to look like a man or a woman either but like. There are definitely lesbians who are attracted to women that "look like men" for example and would not be attracted to an identical person who identified as male. Because knowing someone's gender affects your attraction towards them. So if we say "don't take your attraction to nonbinary into account when labeling your orientation, because there is no one way to be nonbinary" we must also say "don't take your attraction to men or women into account when labeling your sexual orientation because there is no one way to be a man or woman" which is not realistic in our world
Like I get it. I am a nonbinary bisexual who also identifies as a cis woman. That's fucking confusing. Because nonbinary is not a single third gender or even many alternate genders... Except when it is. As you described, there are those who identify as stable, separate genders. I identify sometimes as a woman and other times as something distinct from the binary genders. A man who leaves his straight identity unexamined while being attracted to me is misgendering my non-female side.
Also I feel like "gay and lesbian people claim not to be attracted to NBS so they can disrespect us" is like saying "gay men claim not to be attracted to women so they can be misogynists"
@@ameliakurtz4425 this is highly relatable to me and my lived experience, thank you for sharing openly 💖
@@ameliakurtz4425 I don't think I understand what you mean... are you talking about a genitalia preference?
7:03 glad somebody said it because i get very tired of people implying or outright saying the opposite
I tried for androgyny when I was first examining my gender over ten years ago. It was miserable. It gave me more dysphoria when I hadn't even had too much in the first place? And the wardrobe was just so impossible and gave me anxiety every day. As an afab agender person, I just went full masc because it was easier and is the definition of "unisex" anyway (which is bs). Anyway, my point is back when I called myself a girl, I didn't wear dresses or makeup, and now I wear lots of dresses and makeup. Androgyny is far from a requirement.
I think my gender(or lack there of) is confusing bc very fem but I use masculine words to describe myself so no matter who I like I think of it as gay but the ppl who would be attracted to me would be mostly straight men and gay women. Labels are just hard for me ig
I'm a nonbinary lesbian so it's a weird experience
That’s why I agree with the ‘tehre are 2 genders’ bc non binary is not a third gender, it’s just not a binary gender, and it’s someone whose gender identity or experience doesn’t fit in the man or woman binary for whatever reason, that doesn’t make it a third gender, you could argue that there are more than 2 gender identities and experiences though.
I have learned more about Non-binary people from this very video than I would anywhere else.
“Bi and Non-binary, Ya Welcome” 🌦😎😎😎
6:55 it doesnt really, not here, here it only breaks if you define straight, gay, bi, etc as attraction to gender identities, which is pretty nonsensical as is IMO. The expressions "same sex attracted" , "opposite sex attracted (...) have a much more robust reliability. Of course, some cis women think they are only into the opposite sex and thus straight, when in reality they are just into more masculine gender expression, regardless of sex, thus the Ruby Rose case. Same case with cis men, ive met a self identified straight cis man who is attracted to feminine gender expression, in both female and male (...) people (he is attracted to fem gay men, and had experiences with them in his youth) and mistakenly thought he was straight until we had a conversation about the topic. Quite a few such cases i think.
I used to just call myself just lesbian and say im into women till i realised this is incomplete and non-functional, that im hardly more attracted to butch female people than to the opposite sex, yet im attracted to femme enby female folk just the same. For this reason i added the gender expression preference to the identity (fem4fem), plus for me a "lesbian" identity doesnt mean "only into women", rather "only into female people and those who pass as such" , and thats the most accurate description ive been able to find sofar, certainly much more reliable than anything that centers gender identity. idk
A similar rejection of terminology happened with another aspect of my orientation. As a teenager, and until i was 21 i used to identify as gray ace, but something felt off, I felt that i was giving into society's rigid prescription of what sexual attraction and activity looks like (centering genitalia for example) . But having now acquired a diagnosis of ASD lvl 1, i think allosexual with some repulsion due to sensory issues, plus being rather kinky, is much more accurate. Tbh I defiantly reteined the gray ace identity longer than i would have, because I had dreadful coming out experiences with it (you are ill, disordered abnormal, it's a lie, you are fake, you are mentally ill etc, from parents and other lesbians alike).
...i get way too rambly when sleep deprived
Nice
I agree... somewhat. I think the system has cause to exist, but I also think people absolutely ought to be there to fuck with it. Even if most (by and large) don’t, some do, and indeed some should.
❤👏👏👏
How are you doing today
im doing good thanks
You are nonbinary so is it okay to refer to you as she? Or would you prefer they/them? I have been referring to you as she so far.
She uses both, but for future reference there's an about page on their channel with that information
One two bleehjeleheelehelehelehehlelelehe hahahaha . Love
Is it a bi thing to be confused about gender?
You’re already questioning binaries being bi, so I would guess it’s not a far jump to also question gender binaries ❤️
The fluidity of gender and sexuality are the biggest reason the term "queer" is so much more useful and inclusive than the alphabet soup.
Why break the system and not just open it up?
Does non binary mean one does not associate their identiy with BI-nary genders?
Their gender identity, yes. Someone who does not identify as male or female