I think the pirate idea is fun, but it should be a hard army ai where basically the players cant attack the main base area of the ai (but if the ai expands outside its main base its fair to kill) while the two human players 1v1
Yeah that is more like it and easy armies as allies since the hard army is going to instantly focus on 1 of the 2 players. Or we need someone that actually attacks both players and not just tumstep lol.
As an anti-snowball mechanism this is a great idea but since Sam just ganged up on Tumstep even once he was no longer really ahead it was a shit implementation. Don't give up on the idea, give up on Sam and/or revise the rules. For one thing that was probably way too many Comanches by the end, and for another a single Scud Storm if allowed to them could have largely fixed the issue.
Wow love these new kinds of formats i think it refreshes the old game and makes it more interesting day by day, even though it might not be a fair 1v1 still so entertaining Ps: Sam is worst at being a neutral pirate lol
Green was 100% biased and honestly played like a joke. I like new things and changes but he ruined the game. At least excal plays fair he would've been the better fit right away
Easy way to make the pirate neutral would be change the goal - instead of money per unit kill, have money to the piraye per minute of game time. The other two will have to find ways of hiding how strong they are
@@stormthrush37 If Sam kept hitting one player, the other would win more quickly and Sam would earn less money. Could make it that game is over as soon as one of the primary players is defeated
I like the format, I think the rules need to be shortened and concrete. 1. All areas around base are free for pirate to protect and fight as 'defense' 2. Attacks are allowed, but must be done equally in units and simultaneously to both players. 3. Attacks in neutral or middle areas are allowed regardless of player, like the mountain in the first map 4. Maybe pirate can target SW's, priority given to the build order of them.
Yeah like for rule 4 they should only target the super weapon thats closest to fire. No other superweapon. And a 5th rule max 5 markets, 2-3 drop zones and 5-8 hackers.
This was so frustrating to watch. Im all for trying out new stuff but thats a straight up 2v1. If i was tumstep i would just quit and never play with sam again (talking about the first game, not gonna watch the rest)
If as pirate the aim of the game is to maximise unit kills, it follows you want the game to last as long as possible. So Sam was playing it perfectly in game 1. Keep backing the underdog at all times.
It's a fun & interesting concept but what's to prevent the 1v1 players from just... ignoring that whole island? Or wiping the pirate off the map? Not really sure why either of the players are engaging within range of the pirate who can't push out of his area. Edit: JK He can leave with aircraft apparently, dunno why he wasn't attacking fargo's supply to the north if he gets paid per worker kill
I am in favour of new formats, but this is just so random. Might as well flip a coin to decide the winner, because that's basically how it works. Whoever the 3rd player attacks will lose.
I really like this pirate format- but the pirates need to be smarter about picking on the stronger player Also, mad in the ifnal game tumstep didnt capture the pirate's base for power Gotta use the pirate's resources to get ahead! Hoping we see more pirate matches!
we're in for new stuff but this formation was awful and like you said, kinda pointless we wanna see some challenges where its like 2v1 or 3v1 or 3v2 but the players with a smaller team get more money. see how that goes
Terrible idea xd. A human player can never be neutral. Even if the human can be neutral they will always be accused of not being neutral and you can never be sure.
This format pays a human player to be neutral. The only problem is, players can have grudges or simply be too stupid to assess the situation properly. Just make sure both these factors are excluded.
20 minutes in, I agree with what Sam was doing. Sam has every reason to protract the game, making it longer. Sam's goal is to kill as many units as possible, and since Tumstep was ahead throughout most of the game... Well, even I would have been perpetually hunting Tumstep because Tumstep was ahead! So, as someone that barely knows Fargo and Tumstep, I agree with what Sam was doing so far. Now if it meant neutral in attacking, so 50% on Fargo and 50% on Tumstep. Then I'd agree with you, Sam would be totally biased, yet probably not because he disliked Tumstep. What would really help is if there was a tool tip that told the pirate who had more money on the map; current bank, units, and buildings on the map!!
And why was it okay for him to keep hitting Tumstep? Like maybe not exactly at 20 minutes in but a little later Fargo was ahead and Sam hits Fargo once and then goes back to attacking Tumstep. Sam even goes so far as to kill Tumsteps army, but doesn't do the same against Fargo despite him clearly being ahead at that point. How is that any kind of balanced or prolonging the game at that point? That's just 2v1 teaming against the losing player (who btw *only* is losing cause you already were 2v1 him for 95% of the game).
Pirate needs to be a proper expert like ExCaL who truly can assess the situation. Also his army might need to be reduced to a certain size and in exchange the cash bounty for each kill raised. Map was also to big with too much money. I think the format would be much more interesting on smaller maps with less money where micro is more pronounced. All this leads to the pirate picking of single units/buildings of the currently stronger player in interesting, sneacky action instead of dealing too huge imbalanced blows.
I liked the format, but it should be played for fun, you cant take that format too serious. And fun thing is, you can pay the pirate some money, and he is yours :D
personally i'd say make a noob the pirate due it's both gonna be easier to ignore them and easier to fight their units. Ofc with the same ruleset, But we might see some wacky stuff come out from the noob base like raptors and crusaders and whatever xD
Bad format. The pirate basically just decides who wins. Imagine if something like boxing worked like this, and the ref just knocked the guy who is winning out.
The pirate decides who wins, but in the end it's in his best interest the game never ends, so ultimately in pursuit of more prize money the pirate has to balance the game.
I like the idea as an anti-snowball mechanism but this implementation was bad. Even once Tumstep was behind the pirate/Sam didn't effectively switch targets.
One way to make this work would be: 1. use a map with less money like the usual 1v1 maps, although with three spots. Maybe even create such a special map! 2. limit the Pirat to use only one unit of each kind at a time! simple and effective rules. What this does is, he can not have such a massive Impact on the result of the game, but he can tip the balance. He can steal valuable micro time of players, catch their unprotected units which let their guard down like a true pirate, but also gift them xp/cash bounty if the attack fails. He will never get overly impactful, if he runs around with a maximum of one vee with one ambulance and one raptor hit as support behind him, with a possible comanchee to mop up and a tank/tomahawk combo to secure his retreat. I think it can work very interestingly if the map and money is adjusted to this, also it trains players use of combined arms. I think if he gets payed per kill, he will be fairly neutral by default also. First I wanted to add "Pirate is not allowed to leave his base for the first 5 mins in order to not tip the balance" but then I thought, it would be against his interests of getting a maximum of kills to get one player defeated early. So he might even help make games more thrilling by picking of units of the player which is currently winning. Until eventually that one stronger player has the might to finally kill the pirate, but which might exhaust him and get him to loose, so there are many interesting and refreshing new factors. Let ExCaL be this pirate, I think he would be perfect for the job!
No demand for 5 player FFA maps. Generally only decent FFA matches have 6 or more players. Otherwise in 5 player matches, one guy will always get teamed 2v1
yes, that's what I was trying to say to fargo, but he said: "you're crying, he attacked me too" I was so angry, he killed like so a lot, and even when I was losing he was still focusing me lol
@@TumStep256Everybody with functioning eyes and a brain knows you would have won 1v1 or this 'pirate' game with a neutral pirate. You were doing so well 2v1 beating Fargo for so long, but eventually the Commanche attacks drain your economy.
Think Emperor could be the lagger you blocked back in the "Crazy Long Game Defcon6 FFA" ages ago th-cam.com/video/O6j5rePVDa0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=OQwn0ASItBAOb7K-
TRUE SAM WENT TO FAR LEFT AND THAT WASNT RIGHT. SAM SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO WIN OUT RIGHT COZ REALLY HE WOULD HAVE SMOKED FARGO AT THE END TOO.GUD MICRO. NICE WAY TO EARN UR NINEETEEN CENTS EXCAL WOULD HAVE EATEN THE PIRATE AND TOOK HIS DOZER ON TUMSTEPS SPOT NO PROBLEM REGARDLESS TUMSTEP YOUNG GUN IS ELITE.ONLY 2 V 1WITH GREAT PLAYERS STOPPED HIS MOMENTUM
At minimum there should be an observer ref so if pirate is showing bias he could warn him and if continued would autimatic give the victim the round or the pirate loses any winnings
I think the pirate idea is fun, but it should be a hard army ai where basically the players cant attack the main base area of the ai (but if the ai expands outside its main base its fair to kill) while the two human players 1v1
Yeah that is more like it and easy armies as allies since the hard army is going to instantly focus on 1 of the 2 players.
Or we need someone that actually attacks both players and not just tumstep lol.
This is my favorite map of all time for ZH and I love the fact there is finally a game being played on it! :DDD +++++++++++++++ (Mountain Guns)
I feel the same way :D
Would like to see this done with a Hard AI in the armpit of the map harassing the two combatants.
I think it is always good to experiment with new things. (This map was my favorite when I was a kid)
As an anti-snowball mechanism this is a great idea but since Sam just ganged up on Tumstep even once he was no longer really ahead it was a shit implementation. Don't give up on the idea, give up on Sam and/or revise the rules. For one thing that was probably way too many Comanches by the end, and for another a single Scud Storm if allowed to them could have largely fixed the issue.
Yeah exactly.
Wow love these new kinds of formats i think it refreshes the old game and makes it more interesting day by day, even though it might not be a fair 1v1 still so entertaining
Ps: Sam is worst at being a neutral pirate lol
Green was 100% biased and honestly played like a joke. I like new things and changes but he ruined the game. At least excal plays fair he would've been the better fit right away
I know right.
Sam was being 100% biased.
He should be banned for ever being the neutral player again.
Easy way to make the pirate neutral would be change the goal - instead of money per unit kill, have money to the piraye per minute of game time. The other two will have to find ways of hiding how strong they are
I'm not sure that alone would necessarily do it as Sam just kept hitting only one player.
@@stormthrush37 If Sam kept hitting one player, the other would win more quickly and Sam would earn less money. Could make it that game is over as soon as one of the primary players is defeated
I like the format, I think the rules need to be shortened and concrete.
1. All areas around base are free for pirate to protect and fight as 'defense'
2. Attacks are allowed, but must be done equally in units and simultaneously to both players.
3. Attacks in neutral or middle areas are allowed regardless of player, like the mountain in the first map
4. Maybe pirate can target SW's, priority given to the build order of them.
Yeah like for rule 4 they should only target the super weapon thats closest to fire.
No other superweapon.
And a 5th rule max 5 markets, 2-3 drop zones and 5-8 hackers.
Bruh, Emperor desperately trying to figure out how the game works had me in tears
This was so frustrating to watch. Im all for trying out new stuff but thats a straight up 2v1. If i was tumstep i would just quit and never play with sam again (talking about the first game, not gonna watch the rest)
Why not have two pirates? You have one that attacks one player, then the other pirate attacks the other player?
Very fun to watch, maybe try it 2v2 1 pirate for each team
So basically a 3v3 with extra steps
@@abdullahbouhamdan9666 1v1 with 1 pirate each side
If as pirate the aim of the game is to maximise unit kills, it follows you want the game to last as long as possible. So Sam was playing it perfectly in game 1. Keep backing the underdog at all times.
It's a fun & interesting concept but what's to prevent the 1v1 players from just... ignoring that whole island? Or wiping the pirate off the map? Not really sure why either of the players are engaging within range of the pirate who can't push out of his area.
Edit: JK He can leave with aircraft apparently, dunno why he wasn't attacking fargo's supply to the north if he gets paid per worker kill
I am in favour of new formats, but this is just so random. Might as well flip a coin to decide the winner, because that's basically how it works. Whoever the 3rd player attacks will lose.
Obviously as a pirat, you bash the strongest player, in order to prolong the game, wich in return gives you more time to kill more units.
I like trying new things, but this was a total failure with the pirat attacking only Tumpstep the whole game long...
You could try a format with no long range units allowed (e.g. buggies)
wtf, i would rage quit if i was TumStep when getting hit 99% of time
I really like this pirate format- but the pirates need to be smarter about picking on the stronger player
Also, mad in the ifnal game tumstep didnt capture the pirate's base for power
Gotta use the pirate's resources to get ahead!
Hoping we see more pirate matches!
Would be better if the Pirate was just allowed to attack in the middle and maybe even build an outpost there.
Best part is at the end where Fargo ragequits
we're in for new stuff but this formation was awful and like you said, kinda pointless
we wanna see some challenges where its like 2v1 or 3v1 or 3v2 but the players with a smaller team get more money. see how that goes
Decent format but the pirate should be limited to what units he can take outside the island. Maybe that might balance things out?
Terrible idea xd. A human player can never be neutral. Even if the human can be neutral they will always be accused of not being neutral and you can never be sure.
This format pays a human player to be neutral. The only problem is, players can have grudges or simply be too stupid to assess the situation properly. Just make sure both these factors are excluded.
20 minutes in, I agree with what Sam was doing. Sam has every reason to protract the game, making it longer. Sam's goal is to kill as many units as possible, and since Tumstep was ahead throughout most of the game... Well, even I would have been perpetually hunting Tumstep because Tumstep was ahead!
So, as someone that barely knows Fargo and Tumstep, I agree with what Sam was doing so far.
Now if it meant neutral in attacking, so 50% on Fargo and 50% on Tumstep. Then I'd agree with you, Sam would be totally biased, yet probably not because he disliked Tumstep.
What would really help is if there was a tool tip that told the pirate who had more money on the map; current bank, units, and buildings on the map!!
And why was it okay for him to keep hitting Tumstep? Like maybe not exactly at 20 minutes in but a little later Fargo was ahead and Sam hits Fargo once and then goes back to attacking Tumstep. Sam even goes so far as to kill Tumsteps army, but doesn't do the same against Fargo despite him clearly being ahead at that point. How is that any kind of balanced or prolonging the game at that point? That's just 2v1 teaming against the losing player (who btw *only* is losing cause you already were 2v1 him for 95% of the game).
Pirate needs to be a proper expert like ExCaL who truly can assess the situation. Also his army might need to be reduced to a certain size and in exchange the cash bounty for each kill raised.
Map was also to big with too much money. I think the format would be much more interesting on smaller maps with less money where micro is more pronounced.
All this leads to the pirate picking of single units/buildings of the currently stronger player in interesting, sneacky action instead of dealing too huge imbalanced blows.
Any players playing this map should team up and get rid of the biased AI first and have total fun 1V1. Just annoying totally.
I liked the format, but it should be played for fun, you cant take that format too serious. And fun thing is, you can pay the pirate some money, and he is yours :D
The neutral player should only have access to tier 1 units and confined to assaulting the middle of the map only.
No.
Tumstep is a legend! Showed true skill and showed who’s boss
Well deserved
GG to both players ❤️
personally i'd say make a noob the pirate due it's both gonna be easier to ignore them and easier to fight their units.
Ofc with the same ruleset, But we might see some wacky stuff come out from the noob base like raptors and crusaders and whatever xD
I didn't know you're a Pirate too Domi, $ARRR Pirate Chain!!
Also i think fargo and tumstep choising gla was a mistake. Just because secondary ecomony is glas main weakness
Bad format. The pirate basically just decides who wins. Imagine if something like boxing worked like this, and the ref just knocked the guy who is winning out.
I concur with this statement. It's an interesting gamemode in concept, but that's about as far as it goes.
you need someone with neutrality
The pirate decides who wins, but in the end it's in his best interest the game never ends, so ultimately in pursuit of more prize money the pirate has to balance the game.
I like the idea as an anti-snowball mechanism but this implementation was bad. Even once Tumstep was behind the pirate/Sam didn't effectively switch targets.
Try this again; but with DoMi in the 3rd Spot doing the harassing while commenting.
One way to make this work would be:
1. use a map with less money like the usual 1v1 maps, although with three spots. Maybe even create such a special map!
2. limit the Pirat to use only one unit of each kind at a time!
simple and effective rules.
What this does is, he can not have such a massive Impact on the result of the game, but he can tip the balance. He can steal valuable micro time of players, catch their unprotected units which let their guard down like a true pirate, but also gift them xp/cash bounty if the attack fails.
He will never get overly impactful, if he runs around with a maximum of one vee with one ambulance and one raptor hit as support behind him, with a possible comanchee to mop up and a tank/tomahawk combo to secure his retreat. I think it can work very interestingly if the map and money is adjusted to this, also it trains players use of combined arms.
I think if he gets payed per kill, he will be fairly neutral by default also.
First I wanted to add "Pirate is not allowed to leave his base for the first 5 mins in order to not tip the balance"
but then I thought, it would be against his interests of getting a maximum of kills to get one player defeated early. So he might even help make games more thrilling by picking of units of the player which is currently winning.
Until eventually that one stronger player has the might to finally kill the pirate, but which might exhaust him and get him to loose, so there are many interesting and refreshing new factors. Let ExCaL be this pirate, I think he would be perfect for the job!
the fact that there is no ranked 5 player map makes us play this unbalanced map
why don't they make some ?
No demand for 5 player FFA maps. Generally only decent FFA matches have 6 or more players. Otherwise in 5 player matches, one guy will always get teamed 2v1
There was a Worldbuilder contest a while back for 5 player maps. Quite some got made. Think you can get them through Genpatcher.
@@DoMiNaToR3 I agree but in 6 player FFA matches also we have some 2v1
@@NickNameZHI really want these maps
@@ehsan45 Google Genpatcher, when running that you will see an option somewhere on how to download the maps.
First game was 2 vs tumstep.
Bringing ideas to the game is always good, but need to be simple and fair.
1st game the pirate hit primarily tumstep, it was 💯 not neutral game.
yes, that's what I was trying to say to fargo, but he said: "you're crying, he attacked me too" I was so angry, he killed like so a lot, and even when I was losing he was still focusing me lol
@@TumStep256I see, but even in a 2v1 you did a great job. wp man!
@@TumStep256Everybody with functioning eyes and a brain knows you would have won 1v1 or this 'pirate' game with a neutral pirate. You were doing so well 2v1 beating Fargo for so long, but eventually the Commanche attacks drain your economy.
@@L3_M thanks
@@saybrowt yea, very true
Think Emperor could be the lagger you blocked back in the "Crazy Long Game Defcon6 FFA" ages ago
th-cam.com/video/O6j5rePVDa0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=OQwn0ASItBAOb7K-
Tumstep is insane
Experimenting = good
Idea format = meh
AI targeting = awful
As you said no harm in trying new formats
But this is very bad & silly format
It was so annoying to watch, green ruined the game, he literally teamed with fargo
Blue sus
Gay game mode
Yeah really dumb.
Hi domi
brain dead pirate?
it was so painful watching a swarm of commies ALWAYS going left
incredibly biased, its not your job to balance the game its your job to be neutral
Bad format, I would be happy if the pirate was a brutal enemy instead of a human.
not really fun to watch bad format this sucks
TRUE SAM WENT TO FAR LEFT AND THAT WASNT RIGHT. SAM SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO WIN OUT RIGHT COZ REALLY HE WOULD HAVE SMOKED FARGO AT THE END TOO.GUD MICRO. NICE WAY TO EARN UR NINEETEEN CENTS EXCAL WOULD HAVE EATEN THE PIRATE AND TOOK HIS DOZER ON TUMSTEPS SPOT NO PROBLEM REGARDLESS TUMSTEP YOUNG GUN IS ELITE.ONLY 2 V 1WITH GREAT PLAYERS STOPPED HIS MOMENTUM
At minimum there should be an observer ref so if pirate is showing bias he could warn him and if continued would autimatic give the victim the round or the pirate loses any winnings
Thats was BS. Maybe the pirate should only be able to make bomb trucks and target certain builds. (Super weapons, command centre) Etc