Andy Burnham: Axing Northern HS2 Would Leave Us With Victorian Infrastructure | Good Morning Britain
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2023
- A decision to scrap the Birmingham to Manchester leg of HS2 is expected imminently after the Government said it would be ‘irresponsible’ to keep ploughing money into the project in the face of rising costs. The decision would mean that the Birmingham to Manchester leg of the high-speed rail line would not be built.
This morning, Wigan and Bolton unveil a new fleet of publicly owned-buses - the first for almost forty years. The Bee Network will serve parts of Bury, Salford and Manchester and will be able to decide their own routes and prices
Andy Burnham says the North already 'have to put up with daily chaos on the railways' and scrapping the HS2 link from Birmingham to Manchester would 'leave them with Victorian infrastructure'.
Broadcast on 25/09/23
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Where did they start building it? Yes London, not Leeds, not Manchester so very predictable that it wouldn't be completed to benefit the North. And yet they have the cheek to hold a tory conference in Manchester in a week, let's see how the North welcomes them.
No they started building HS2 from Birmingham south towards London and North towards Lichfield, as well as North from London towards Birmingham try doing some research first.
If it doesn't go up to Manchester, the whole thing might aswell be scrapped. What's the point of having a fast train that only goes from London to Birmingham. The whole thing is a complete waste of money
Kind of. I think the idea would be to still have the trains going to Manchester - but they would divert to the existing WCML rather than travel along a new purpose-built line.
The biggest problem is it stopping at Old Oak Common. In London terms that's effectively the middle-of-nowhere! Will completely screw the time advantage of the new line, as why catch HS2 when you can jump on a WCML InterCity right to the centre?
They ain’t fast doesn’t even go central London and will cost a fortune
@JohnSmith-xl8cb I mean, they are fast. But the only way the full benefits will be realised is if it is built in full. Better something costing a fortune but getting finished than costing a fortune and being half-cooked!
Avanti West Coast also a disaster
There are 2 major train lines in the U.K., West Coast and East Coast Mainlines.
West Coast ML is one of the busiest in Europe apparently, accommodating train capacity from Manchester, Liverpool and Warrington, Crewe, further North etc to Birmingham or Rugby. So passengers travelling from these northern city stations that want to get to Birmingham or even London have to use this West Coast Mainline.
Then you have to account for the other commuter trains that stop at towns or local stations, which add train traffic to the line.
In effect, trains have to slow down and wait for signals quite frequently, as well as travel slower due to the line reaching maximum capacity.
If you want the north to separate from London and become more self reliant, you have to create a rail network and road network that joins northern cities and towns together effectively and efficiently. Connecting rail to Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool, Birmingham airports is also key!
So North to South; Manchester / Liverpool to Birmingham,
West to East; Liverpool to Manchester to Leeds to Newcastle.
That will require new high speed inter city trains and commuter trains
HS2 and Crossrail of North
London has been given it, with Elizabeth Line / Crossrail and Thameslink, it’s time for the North to take it too!
When HS2 runs from Birmingham Curzon Street to London it will stop at Birmingham Interchange which will serve Birmingham Airport
we focus just on HS2 being over budget but we can’t get anything done anywhere. We can’t even build roads. You can cancel this and put the money elsewhere, and then that’ll be a disaster as well. For the love of God, can we just do something properly!
Your first mistake "we" .There is no we it's them and us unless your sitting in a big house having your expensive breakfasts funded by the tax payer.
I believe the Tories have shown how successful they can run things - although considering Right-wing end goals they have been highly successful so far in keeping the divide widening even more I guess.
I can't believe GMB hasn't axed Richard Madeley from it's roster. No-one's seriously talking about Andy Burnham becoming leader. 😂😂😂
Mr Madley is a pompous self opinionated buffoon
You mean the real Alan Partridge? I'm sure Coogan based him (in part) on Madeley lol.
Andy's a more wholesome engaging man than the snake Kier that can't tell you what a woman is?
@@jazzdub4958 There's a difference between a woman in the biolgical sense and the legal sense. Starmer is a lawyer. He speaks carefully.
@@TalesOfWarLol I hope you are joking with that reply? "A woman in the biological sense"??? It's a woman, not a dude bruh with a dick. What legal sense you talking about? You trying read between the lines making out Starmer is scared of offending the blue haired whales? He doesn't speak carefully at all - he's a creep and does nothing to honour women that you, I and himself came from. Not a leader I'd ever vote for if my life depended on it. I just think you are also scared of the gays coming after you if you have to "speak carefully". Grow the hell up.
Strange how burnham & co have never before raised the issue of the two 'Victorian railways' that are serving the North West regions, until NOW !!!!! Of course its HIS usual way of posturing.
He fails to bring anything positive to the party.
If you come to that conclusion then I think you've only started to look at things... well, now. He's been saying this for years, as has anybody with half a brain who exists outside of the Westminster bubble.
Andy should be PM - we have a passionate person representing the North
Hospital scandal down the memory hole for you i presume.
why wasn't axing the line to Sheffield and Leeds getting this coverage? but honestly the cost of HS2 is a total rip off
The cost skyrocketed because of all the tunneling. Why couldn’t it be built above ground?
@@donna25871Because wealthy landowners don't want anything that cuts up their vast estate sadly
Oh dear is it a competition or a race to the bottom.
You’re right if it doesn’t go to leeds then it shouldn’t go to Manchester, how’s that levelling up
Also the desolation that has been done to ancient woodlands, gone FOREVER. It is an absolute joke from the start. Another project that was designed to line the pockets of our corrupt government. Especially Bojo and his father, whom profited millions £'s. There will be no /very little gain in travel times due to where the "pick up" stations will be for the commuters. It's another pocket filler for the people involved. Knowing how beautiful the surrounding countryside was before the bull dozers came in... I loathe the HS2 project
Scrap it now and hurry up
So HS2 is now a London project like I’ve always said! London to Birmingham only takes 1 hour, so who in their right mind thought this route required a high speed train! Manchester to Birmingham and then to London requires a high speed train!
The HS2 project should have started in the North! Connecting Leeds and Manchester to Birmingham, as well as connecting to Manchester Airport, Leeds Airport, Birmingham Airport!
London should not have any major public infrastructure projects for the next 10 years and all money should be spent in the North for apparent levelling up.
The Tory government is a disgrace and enemy of the people.
Also Manchester not sure about the yellow buses, maybe gold and black if you want to make everything about a Bee 🐝
HS2 was not started in London only, it was also started building from Birmingham south to London and North to Lichfield
You are Victorian Burnham , a real blast from the past Commy C t
Axing the Birmingham-Manchester leg of HS2 sounds beyond stupid.
Andy Burnham mate, at least with Victorian infrastructure you will still.have some kind of public transport infrastructure.
In the area where I live in the north, most of the small towns and all of the villages don't even have any train station at all and towns only five or ten miles apart don't even have a connecting bus service.
Before we can run we need to be able to walk. We need good local transport first which links the local towns and villages so that public transport actually becomes a viable option to the personal motor car to get to our manual jobs.
Without this massive investment into improving the current, almost none existent local public transport system in areas like mine, we cannot hope to meet any target date of banning new ice cars.
The money wasted on building HS2 could have been far better spent by distributing the money between the northern regions to concentrate on their own local projects to improve local public transportation first.
Not completing HS2 in its orginal format will in the future be viewed as a major mistake.
My grandkids in Yorkshire can't get a bus to school ! Erm, I hope you're not charging Scotland for a share of this nonsense. Come and look at our bus services in Edinburgh....We didn't stick with the deregulation and everyone fighting to run a bus route that breaks even. This promise to connect the North ? 10 minutes cut off the London to Birmingham route and the entire nation managed with zoom during lockdown. Businesses make up a lot of crap.
So because your grandkids can't get a bus to school in some part of Yorkshire, we shouldn't bother improving any of the transport infrastructure anywhere else in the country? That's a... interesting take on things.
We need this upgrade to get to Manchester 10 minutes earlier!😂
It was never about speed
No no no! What percentage ppl what to travel cross country?? I would rather the government put money in improving the networks/ bus to the towns! Why should it take 2-3 buses to get to your destination? Why isn’t there many more train stations?
That's exactly what HS2 will do. It'll take the fast trains off the existing overcrowded network and allow for far more, slower running commuter and regional trains to run. You're asking for exactly what HS2 is designed to do.
You mean we don't have victorian infrastructure already?
Who wants to go up North to look at the slagheaps anyway?
Here is and interesting little fact for everyone! one of the main contractors of hs2 Balfour Beaty main shareholder is Manchester city council pension fund!
Every one keeps going on about the HS2 is not going to Manchester, it isn't terminating in Euston and why did they start building it from London, there are easy answers to that;
1/ Yes HS2 trains will go to Manchester, not by a HS line but via a junction near Lichfield Staffordshire where by the HS2 trains will join the existing WCML and travel to Manchester
2/ Yes it will terminate at Euston eventually as Old Oak common Station will not have the capacity to store terminating trains as it is designed as a through station not a terminus Station
3/ No they did not start building the HS2 line at the London End only, as they started building from Birmingham south towards London and North to Lichfield and sites in between at the same time
I have a huge problem - maybe the north needs the help but the cost so far and the estimated final cost is insane. The fact this is was a 'flagship' of Tory 'success' which really does so just how useful they have been in governing the country for the last 13 years.
Also I wish Andy Burnham and others would stop saying the 'south' like its a monolith when they mean the south-east - the south west has been just as abandoned if not worse than the north. The south-west still only have 1 train line at least the North has Victorian standard rails the South-west don;t even have that.
Why can’t they build firstly between Newcastle and Manchester? At least there’s something there.
Well said Andy B
Didn’t Labour criticise the decision to continue with HS2?
No. The criticised the way the Tories wanted to do it when they started to water things down. HS2 was a Labour incentive, it was put in to law in 2009. The original plan was what the Tories eventually agreed to, but with a direct link to HS1 and an underground station that would span from Euston to Kings Cross. So you could get on a train in Brussels and go direct to Manchester. That was the first thing the Tories cut. The thing ends about half a mile from where HS1 does. It's fucking dumb. Their next dumb move was to make the main interchange point in London as Old Oak Common and not Euston, which is far, far, FAR better connected to transport links to get everywhere else in London. The other dumb decision they made was to not make the Manchester link an underground run through station, but to instead have it as a terminus and build a new viaduct, taking up valuable real estate in central Manchester and making it far more difficult and expensive to then extend the tunnel outwards to connect to HS3 (the Northern Powerhouse Rail thing, which would link Liverpool, Manchester, Bradford and Leeds). Then of course they cancelled the whole eastern leg, so it isn't going to Sheffield or Leeds any more, or Derby or Nottingham. Ad now they want to get rid of the bit to Manchester.
So yes, the Labour party have criticised their decisions with HS2. Their continued enshittification of it.
I honestly expected Richard to ask Andy who invented the skip at one point
From London Just over 2hrs to Manchester, 1hr 15 to Birmingham, 1hr 30 to Derby and just under 2hrs to York. It takes me a minimum of an hour from Southend on Sea and that’s just 30 miles.
50 mins to Birmingham on HS2
Since wi-fi arrived time spent travelling is no longer an issue especially if it is only a few minutes.
Make it into a normal extra railway line or even a motorway as the land is paid for and work is in progress but cut out the expensive technology as it won't actually save time at all. If it is part of the network it can be used without having to travel to London or Birmingham to use it.
I asked HS2 why, if going to Euston is too expensive, why not connect HS2 at Old Oak Common to the GWR mainline that runs alongside it and run HS2 trains onto the GWR mainline and then to Paddington. Yes, there's a difference in levels at OOC but plenty of room to build manageable inclines with acceptable gradients. I am still waiting for HS2 to reply.....
As for truncating it at Birmingham, that would be worse than insane. The entire business case was based on a line into the Liverpool to Manchester arc. Without that its simply a relief line for a part of the already congested West Coast Mainline.
The sad thing is that if we had held a referendum in 2009 and the answer was Yes to proceed, the entire system would now be up and running and for about £ 30 billion.
@@Ewan0025 No the HS2 trains are not being built to a larger loading gauge as they will be running on the existing WCML route from Lichfield into Manchester, all trains designed to run in the UK are built to the UK loading Gauge and having it's own platforms is so services do not conflict with one another
@@Ewan0025 Again where are you getting your information from, HS2 trains are being built to the same UK loading gauge as the existing trains such as the Class 800's and pendolinos as the will be running on the Existing West Coast Main line route to Manchester, Liverpool and Scotland and there have never been plans for two types of trains to operate on HS2 and HS2 trains are not terminating at Paddington, they will be terminating at London Euston, Paddington has never ever been mentioned any where as the HS2 terminus
On the one hand, he focuses on the lack of infrastructure throughout the North.. then uses that to support the pointless HS2 which will (at eye-watering Billions) simply knock 30 min on a trip to London. Who would even notice that 30 min. ?. it's not as though it would attract hundreds of thousands to commute Manchester to London daily.. at huge costs. What's needed is a much updated infracture across the north which would attract people currently living in the South to consider moving there, that would assist 'leveling up'.
You’re completely wrong, a high speed inter city trainline is still required! Quite moronically I’m afraid.
There are 2 major train lines in the U.K., West Coast and East Coast Mainlines.
West Coast ML is one of the busiest in Europe apparently, accommodating train capacity from Manchester, Liverpool and Warrington, Crewe, further North etc to Birmingham or Rugby. So passengers travelling from these northern city stations that want to get to Birmingham or even London have to use this West Coast Mainline.
Then you have to account for the other commuter trains that stop at towns or local stations, which add train traffic to the line.
In effect, trains have to slow down and wait for signals quite frequently, as well as travel slower due to the line reaching maximum capacity.
If you want the north to separate from London and become more self reliant, you have to create a rail network and road network that joins northern cities and towns together effectively and efficiently. Connecting rail to Manchester Leeds, Liverpool, Birmingham airports is also key!
So North to South; Manchester / Liverpool to Birmingham,
West to East; Liverpool to Manchester to Leeds to Newcastle.
That will require new high speed inter city trains and commuter trains
HS2 and Crossrail of North
London has been given it, with Elizabeth Line / Crossrail and Thameslink, it’s time for the North to take it too!
@@jakehowie442 Nobody would argue that the concept of HS2 is a good one.. however.. the cost overrun has now reached a stage where we have to call, 'Enough'.. there are just too many calls on the public purse to continue throwing Billions and Billions at the project. It was poorly researched from the outset.
1. It's actually more like an hour. 2. Speed isn't the point, capacity is. Having dedicated lines for the fast trains means the slower trains can use the existing network better. More, slower trains for better regality for commuting and regional journeys. The cost is nothing, it really is. It's £100billion over the 40 years it's estimated to build the thing. It's estimated to bring £100billion worth of economic growth to the country EVERY YEAR when built, that will only go up as it's then better integrated in the communities it passes through, and allows more integrated, better links like HS3 (which they now call Northern Powerhouse Rail). That's the Liverpool to Leeds link that relies heavily on HS2 being built, which will then make it pretty trivial to extend the thing up to Newcastle. Right now, it takes longer to get from Manchester to Newcastle by train than it does to get from Manchester to London. It's around a third of the distance. This is because the network is full, and is made worse with these fast inter-city trains that only stop at a few places along the way. The slower trains have to get out of the way, meaning you can't run as many of them due to the headway between things for the 125mph trains.
What about Wales and the South-West? You need to get it right and say the South-East "has everything" as you put it.
HS2 was a bound to fail from the start, how anyone ever believed the original cost wasn't going to be exceeded was a fool. HS2 was prestige project and a golden goose for city investors.
Why’s it still going ahead in London and to Birmingham then? It’s a London project.
Absolutely disgraceful considering many homes and land in the north have already been destroyed.
Never mind that city investor rubbish, considering it’s public money funding the project.
@@jakehowie442 It is not a London Project, it is a Birmingham Project with two of the largest station on HS2 at Birmingham Curzon Street and Birmingham Interchange plus both HS2 ltd and the operator of HS2 Avanti West Coast Trains / Trenitalia having their Head Quarters in Birmingham City Center
They never intended it to go north of Birmingham
What about Scotland 😡
Ask the SNP that
The problem with the northern leg of HS2 is that it will create greater inequality in the North. The Merseyside, West and South Yorkshire conurbations will seem less attractive to investors due to having poorer connections. Manchester would win all the cachet. Money would have been better spent in continuing to expand and improve light rail and metro-style transport systems within each Northern conurbation. This will help take cars off the roads and help commuting within each area. For a city the size of Leeds-Bradford to be without a metro or light rail is so shocking...it barely has many suburban railway stations compared to GMC or Merseyside. Too late now...somebody needs to be held to account for this massive spending error!!!
A COMPLETE AND UTTER WASTE OF MONEY AND RESOURCES.... ALWAYS HAS BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE!!!!!!
The titling trains on the WCML have made it redundant. The money would of been better spent upgrading the regular network and maybe opening some old lines that were axed under the Beeching cuts.
THIS... IS... THE... UPGRADE! They spent a fortune upgrading the West Coast Main Line not all that long ago, and it was already at capacity again before it finished. It took 15 years to complete and massive disruption to service. We need a NEW, DEDICATED line for FAST trains, so those fast trains don't get in the way of the slower, regional trains. It's quite simple really. The gaps needed between the fast trains and everything else is miles and miles. If you have nothing but slower moving commuter services and freight that doesn't need huge gaps between it then you can have more of them, thus improved frequency. I'd love to know how you'd think upgrading the existing lines would actually do much. It's not like you can just build more tracks along side it the whole way. It already weaves in and out of things in much of the route. You'll have to rip of extortionately expensive inner town and city areas to do it or spend billions buying houses along side the existing lines to demolish and expand the embankments etc. Or... build a new line that doesn't have that problem until you get to the city part of things. Which is HS2.
use the cash to upgrade current as ''How long will HS2 journeys take? The government says HS2 will cut Birmingham to London journey times from one hour 21 minutes, to 52 minutes. HS2 would also take an hour off journeys from Manchester to London - from just over two hours to just over one hour - if this leg goes ahead....its just not worth the time saved,,,scrap it all
How about when you cancel a train you give a refund the amount of times I've been on trains and they've been cancelled then it tells me I cannot be refunded is ridiculous
How do small traders use the bus network with 100kg of tools and 250kg of materials .the answer is we don't we use small commercial vans and to tax the owners off the road will have a devastating impact on our customers who can't afford the basics at the moment a few hundred pounds added on the the cost of jobs isn't going to make the air any cleaner . My van is a ex Stockport council low emission vehicle and you refuse to accept it's a low emission vehicle and call it dirty polluting vehicle . Stockport council had set the ball rolling with low emission vehicle Manchester council fleet of maintenance vehicle for years were high polluting diesel vehicles and stock ran a fleet of low emission LPG vehicles .
Manchester city council is one the the most polluting companies in the UK
Maybe ask your MP instead, because it should be central government funding all of this kind of thing, not local councils who are already massively underfunded due to central government cuts.
Why don’t you tell us about the Canadian parliament giving a standing ovation for a 98 year old Ukrainian Nazi .
What the fuck has that got to do with what's going on here? This is Good Morning Britain, not ITV News.
Belsen Burnham, how's Mid Staff's inquiry coming along?
Levelling Up, Sun Lit Uplands. 😂😂 #brexthick
No mention of the brits that’s live real north of England Newcastle, Sunderland, Middlesbrough
You do know that the full HS2 then HS3 (Northern Powerhouse Rail) would directly benefit Newcastle too, right? The joined up plan would then allow for an extension to Edinburg via Newcastle.
They won’t be able to afford the fares anyway.
They should have started to build manchester to leeds or manchester to birmingham first. London has already money invested into it.
Cancelling HS2, is there no end to the damage that this hopeless shower will do to this country
Burnam talks utter rubbish. I live in the North and Hs2 is a white elephant 🐘 by the time it's up and running it will be out of date. If you wanted something to last then look at Japan's railways..
on piece of railway line will not make any difference to the overall structure of the railways...ANDY....which is badly in need od investment
Let's get rid of the West Coast Main Line then. It won't make a difference will it? Incase you're unable to see it, HS2 IS the investment.
Sheffield is Englands 4th largest city it was going there but now they have pulled it
This is hilarious. 😂 all those brexthick benefits for the ‘red wall’. 😂 LOL.
I dont understand how its costing so much !?! What with over a million immigrants a year coming over ! Wheres all the engineers and machine operators ?? Working cheap labour !!
We don't have enough engineers in this country. Most of the project managers on this are foreign because we don't invest in our own people or build enough large scale infrastructure projects in this country. Look to somewhere like France who've been building large scale rolling infrastructure projects practically since the end of the war. They've built a huge high speed rail system around the whole country over the last several decades while we've built a single shitty line from Dover to London.
Do something
Vote for Nick Buckley next May
This isn't the Northern leg, its the manchester leg and benefits nowhere else but there. No one wants to waste hours going out of their way just to save an hour on the train.
About time they opened their eyes and realised that there's more to the North than manchester and tedious windbag Andy Burnham.
Did you miss the bit where he said they should instead first build the Liverpool to Leeds Northern Powerhouse Rail? Also say what you want, Manchester is the hub of the North. You should be happy somewhere outside of the M25 gets any kind of investment, and Burnham wants to extend that to the wider North.
Could the extension just be deferred for the time being? And built as funds become available?
No. Because then it'll cost more. The money has already been allocated. The money will still be spent, just on a worse outcome by stretching things out. The surveys alone cost billions, which will all have to be done again when we inevitably reach the conclusion we need to build this damn thing. They spent a small fortune on the Midlands hub between Derby and Nottingham with planning, surveys and interregional transport links to link it all together. The government basically tore that up when they cancelled the eastern leg. Cancelling it will cost more, if for no other reason than duplication of work. Never mind inflation and other economic factors that just make things more expensive as time goes on.
Build more motorways HS2 is an EU folly scrap it now.
They are building more motorways. For more polluting vehicles to suffocate our children. The only viable way to cut transport greenhouses gasses is to build more trains. Even if you're one of those people who love to drive and couldn't give a fuck about anybody else's lungs or their ability to get about, you should actually be for things like HS2 and better public transport, because it means the roads won't be full of as many people who have no other option than to drive. So fewer traffic jams.
Because your too far away from london. because tax revenue is gennerated in london and the big lobbying companies are all based down there. there is no political motivation to invest in the north
Look whos popped up again follwing his driving conviction! Looks like hes on the bus now! On a more serious note spend the money upgrading the existing routes if there's any cash left!
How would you upgrade the existing route? Because in case you didn't realise it, HS2 is the upgrade.
Where is the 350m a week? Could that be used to help the budget? 😂😂 # brexthick
We been fine without HS2 for years
No lol, WCML at capacity meaning high train fares. This means more journeys by car and more road damage. The roads are subsidised just as much if not more than rail despite being much worse for the environment and society as a whole.
Small traders didn't get a say with Manchester's clean air zone . Vote these people out conservative and labour have had their chance and we've had enough vote for small independent political parties
The simple fact the whole thing has been under review since before it even went live suggests that yes... small traders did get a say about the Manchester Clean Air Zone. Also, you are aware that this is a Westminster law right? All city regions are legally obligated to do it. Not that they're getting any help with it from central government.
BS..!
I wish Andy Burnham was the Labour leader as keir starmer is absolutely hopeless.
How much time does this shave off the journey? 20mins?
HS2 - total evil idea in a small beautiful country.
The UK isn't as small as you think it is. Great Britain is the 9th largest island in the world and only 2% of the land in England has been developed. Some of us also need to travel around the place, so being able to do it on 21st century infrastructure would be nice. Let's build more trains and fewer roads.
Shame you didn’t ask burnham about grooming gangs
Shame they didn’t ask about the white police officers who gave raped so may women.
And young girls
Band wagon burnham blah blah blah, what a job, never heard him be positive on anything, like any wannabe politician it’s easier to pick fault
He's always been for HS2 and better public transport infrastructure. Not sure if you've seen how much effort he's put into fighting for better transport in and around Greater Manchester, to the point where we now OWN the busses again. Love or hate him, he's actually achieved things.
Who's Andy Burnham............is that the prick people are talking about in the pubs..........