The Eotech is also the only optic with no forward light emissions. This is relevant when you are worried about your adversaries having night vision as well.
Something worth mentioning for newbies considering a dot/magnifier: Cheap dots (i.e. Romeo MSR) might look blurry/smeared through a magnifier. I think it has to do with emitter alignment and quality but either way it's much harder to aim precisely when your reticle looks like a banana.
I honestly like them all for different reasons. I go with the Red Dot/ Magnifier combo more often than anything else just because I really value the quickness & ease of use the Red Dot offers, then being able to switch to magnification on demand. I live in the wooded mountains. I don't have a terribly high amount of sight lines over 200 yards around, so this works for me in most imaginable situations.
@@jeffheyer7783 Most magnifiers are 3x, but there are other options. I have multiple setups, but the EOTech with EOTech magnifier is fantastic if you don't mind spending the money. If you want to go a cheaper route, you can pickup a Holosun magnifier & optic for much cheaper & it will still be really good.
We are in the deserts ofAZ, although we have a lot of mountains in other areas .So I a use full power cartridge.Also, we can see a long way in a lot of places,so we use scopes around 4x20, and 45 degree red dots.Best of all worlds.Fantastic weapon up close or faraway.😊
I've tried like hell and wasted alot of money mixing and matching abunch of different red dot / magnifier combos because ultimately that's how I wanted to run my rifle. I love having practically minimal parallax with a red dot and the option to flip magnification when necessary just seemed like the perfect build for me but I just could never get comfortable or become efficient as well as I do with an LPVO.
After much of my own experimentation, I ended up settling on red dots + magnifier. RDSs are easier to shoot with passively under night vision without fussing with diopters, and the magnifier can be flipped or added back to give you that little bit of magnification you need to punch out at range. For non-night vision rifles it's more muddy, but generally I prefer 1 to 4-6 power LPVOs
@@Lifechanging99999 What are they going to do when they don't have a convenient laser beam tracing back to my exact firing position regardless of situation? I'm not sure why I have to explain why "making it difficult to be located" is a good thing.
I have a aimpoint comp m5 and a EOTech, a sign msr, an RMR, a Leupold 2-12x44. Got to say there is some freaking special sauce in the EOTech. It's my favorite for sure. One of the things I really got to say about these kind of videos as informative as they can be is that you really individually need to go out and see how your eyes handle different things. For example, many of the pros of a red. May be lost in somebody with an astigmatism. Similarly, there can be eye issues that make LPVOs really detrimental. Additionally, common use cases can qualify or disqualify each of these options. Some people may actually find that irons serves them far better than they would expect. This anyway has been my great revelation is getting to the range and finding something absolutely does not work for my eyes. Specific siding systems I cannot follow under duress. Other sighting systems are almost intuitive.
I’m blown away you only have 20k and change subscribers. This is truly high quality content, you’re knowledgeable, honest, and maybe most importantly, you are skilled at explaining complicated concepts and philosophies in a simple way. Perhaps the thing that impresses me the most is you are never ever afraid to shit on something, even your personal favorite optics. I don’t know too many people who will admit the shortcomings of their favored gear. P.S., your explanation of the Elcan Specter D.R. inspired me to grab one up when I stumbled on a fairly good sale price, about to throw it on a 13.7” that previously had an ACOG/ canted 407C. The moment you started going on and on about the amazing glass quality and the way the bigger objective lens makes for a bigger picture that makes the magnification seem like more than it is? That immediately resonated with me, and it was precisely then that I realized I’m going to mostly trust what you have to say unless I have firsthand knowledge or personal preferences that differ. Phenomenal content, friend.
Oh the gun-tuber game has been sleeping on B.F. (Nova) & Hoplephiel for AWHILE, but their started to come up, plus the younger crowd really relates to them in some ways they don't other BIG channels, their attitude, philosophies, and opinions combined with smart ass drunken humor we all can relate to. Plus their the MOST LIKE US.... DEFINITELY WILL GET A WIN FOR THE GUN-TUBER AWARDS IN THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS.!!! just keep it up, and Hop & You etc. Get together and make some purpose driven shooting sessions filmed! Always great watch y'all do some unique NV, SPR, and short to mid range content.
Yeah everything you said is true. For myself, he went on about the Eotech 'battery tax' which was really an unfounded bias on his part - those things will run for 600 hours which is plenty of time for any user.
@@Kismetix ikr, I'm saving up for a GOOD optics setup for my main rifle a 13.9" either want a GOOD RDS OR EOTECH & MAGNIFIER, OR AN LPVO & OFFSET RDS. AS LONG AS I CAN POSITIVE ID THINGS AND MAKE CONSISTENT HITS OUT TO 400Y ..... THINKING AN EOTECH & MAGNIFIER WOULD DO GREAT..... YOU KNOW OF ANY OTHER AROUND $400 OPTICS THAT ARE GOOD!???
You are the reason why I have gone with the acog. I actually just won an acog rmr setup on the broker for 850 but I got lucky. but I'm curious about those elcans. either way I also made my decision based off of realistic engagement distances in my suburban area since it just makes sense. also considering these fixed prism sights from primary arms. I can see the market changing relatively quickly
also since I have had my acog I have found that people see it as like a hipster choice almost like I am trying to be different for not going with an lpvo. it could just be me but I feel like the simplicity of a fixed zoom durable optic beats out the headache of keeping up to date with the lpvo gang
Acog Aurora for the win 💕 45° offset holosun micro for cqb. Better glass, light transmission, reticle, fov, reliability, and cqb than any other option. Less weight and price than lpvo.
I will add the advice that whatever setup you decide to run, TRAIN with it! Train with it in different situations and conditions (positions & lighting). Makes a world of difference on how well you can use it.
The Rimworld threw me so hard. My wife was playing Rimworld while I was watching this and I had to stop the video a few times to check where the music was coming from 😂. Good video though! Just what I was looking for. I have an astigmatism and find the eye relief and weight of the LPVO to be personally difficult to work with. I’m also bad though, so there’s that…
IMO, after having countless acogs, elcans, and magnified red dots, I really really genuinely believe the TA33 is the best fighting rifle magnified optic. The PA3x gets a nod if you're on a budget as I feel it gets pretty close but lacks the eye relief and quickness of the TA33. (I actually use a PA3x because it gets me most the things I like with the TA33 but allows me to passively aim since I can adjust the brightness.) If you want more magnification and more bias to distance, you really need a bipod and a good scope to make use of it. Magnification much over 3-4x really starts needing a parallax dial and a very stable shooting position to use.
TA33 or TA11 are cool but even with the RDS i think ''esp'' in a commie state that it would run poorly with nods simply because you cannot easily adjust the stock
interesting take. I'm inclined to lean towards this attitude. that being said, I run LPVOs because of the nice balance of performance, price, and magnification. just used the sig 4x and the eye relief and eye box are trash but the glass clarity is fantastic and the reticle is good too. I still like it and can recognize it's utility as a fighting rifle optic. Would love to try a TA33
Agreed. Recently picked up the new PA micro 3x, weighs basically nothing and has a very good view through it. Can't comment on durability. Also have a Vortex 5x micro prism but that's a bit too much magnification with an eyebox that's too tight for anything but precision. My experience with LVPO's is spend $2k+ or just don't bother. I feel like a 2.5-10x is a better option than most LVPO's tbh since the LVPO's just make too many compromises.
Love my TA31 with a Holosun 507c on top. I gave the ACOG a battery illumination just like the TA02 (instead of taping chemlights to it).It is called the REM ACOG (Reticle Enhancement Module). It has 11 brightness settings so it works in all light conditions. It covers half of the fiber optic so it reduces the Reticle Bloom in bright sunlight. It is made of the same 30% glass filled Polymer as AR pistol grips. Oh... It eliminates the need to replace a dead or dim tritium because you just turn the power to #1 and you have the soft glow for night time aiming. Great upgrade to the TA31! Illumination at your finger tips.
In order to address the three options fairly you need to consider the top of the line mounts that fix the problems related to each. For example...the Unity FAST mount and Flip To Center system paired with the Eotech and thier new 5x magnifier. Or the ACOG with a high/rear set mount paired with an offset red dot. Each of these systems can come in for approximately $1,500.00. That sounds like a lot. But, when compared to the LVPO market that generally runs $1,000.00 to $3,000.00 then the cost begins to have some value. It also helps to realize that most of these sighting systems are being marketed and utilized on 5.56mm setups. This means a bullet that is designed arround an effective range of about 550 meters. In that context the 4x ACOG, the 5x Eotech, or the 6x Aimpoint begin to compete strongly. For the cost, weight, ease of use, ability to hand that weapon system off to a new user, etc. These systems can be far supperior. Just my 2 cents. Hope that helps.
I’m happy with my 1-6x vcog on a quick detach AC12033(bobro mount) also enjoy practicing close in quick shots just using irons. Noticed in the video the Steiner 1-4x, that is a great value
the area you shoot at is amazing! as a collector in Switzerland I've been trying all the setups you mentioned, but I've only ever shot to 100m on a flat range at the most. for now my preference lies with the RDS+magnifier setup but I like the one LPVO I have that I run with an offset Holosun rds.
Great video. This is why I have multiple platforms with different optic setups for different uses. LPVO & Prism for a GPS rifle. RDS / Magnifier combo for shorter barrel applications where 300 yards is absolute max I'd use it. Also this setup on my NV platforms (no Magnifier but obviously with IR attachments). And with good prisms available these days, I don't even own an ACOG any longer. My one rifle that runs only an RDS is my duty rifle with a 16" pencil barrel. Potential engagement will typically be shorter range and I will be carrying my rifle more than using it, so weight is best kept as light as possible. Don't need a Magnifier adding weight & complexity to it. Just rifle, light, & RDS.
new subscriber, I am glad i ran into your channel. This video, has a lot of great info, especially for me, retired USMC, and just wanting to build one of my own, you have easily answered a shit ton of my questions. I even watched it times today! I thank you, and looking fwd to more of your down to earth great videos! You earned my subscription gladly.
I second this the PA slx 3x is amazing! I own an eotech vudu, Vortex razor, eotech xps3-0 and 3 acogs for the money the clarity and that ACSS reticle it a slam dunk! Its like a modern day lighter acog at a quarter of the price
@@christianknight2905 if you think the eye box is short might want to give an lpvo 1-6x a try but don't think it's that short at all for scopes in general' but if not happy with those try 1x power optics will be the only thing left' but won't try 4x acog, a 3x trijicon acog has one of the longest eyebox I've seen but reticle options and the trade off is less viewing at distance
My training and experience is mainly with fixed-power prism optics and I find them to be my ideal set up for two reasons: Magnification is great for identification, and Nothing to mess with while shooting. I use a laser or flashlight for point shooting in close ranges(sub 100yds), so anything where I'm looking down the sights benefits from the magnification, especially the ability to identify my target. Not having anything to mess with while shooting ties into the point shooting method where I want to be able to load and go for my weapon. No dials to adjust, no magnifier to toggle, etc. BDC reticles mean I can just interact with what I see in the scope and my two hands are immediately on the controls while also handling the weapon. Pressure switches, safety, and trigger are the only manipulations I need and they are already there without needing to move my hands. I tried the Red dot and found it lacking in the reticle in terms of feedback and I found an LPVO takes my focus away from my surroundings and instead I was pulled inward to fooling with the dials or illumination so it makes the weapon less of an extension and more of a burden to Work Around rather than Working With.
@@kill.z0n3 Primary Arms 5x for my .308 and iron sights for my 5.56 while I save for a good red dot, probably a mid tier aimpoint. Though I'm comfortable with Iron sights and should probably just spend that money on training ammo.
I've check out a primary arms 3x for a decent starter optic for out to 300 yards with a AR15. Red dots are ok for 200 or less if you have a good zero. Otherwise I'd say start out on irons until you can hit a man sized target at 100. A red dot doesn't really give you a reference point if you're optic isn't zeroed and have nothing else to go off of.
@@luckyomen the 3x primary arms microprism is pretty sweet. I’ve shot mine to 515 yds or so relatively easily. And it’s pretty useful up close too. It’s hard to beat
I'm a fan of SFP LPVO scopes. After buying my first one I'd like to ditch the BDC reticle and just have MOA or mil holdovers. Also I now realize eye relief and eyebox forgiveness are paramount. Also, hot take, budget LPVOs suck a lot more than I thought they would
@@armadilloeggs231 cheaper. I bought the sig tango with the included mount. The mount is great, the optic sucks. I know I got what I paid for but I wanted to see if I even like the idea of an LPVO. The jury is still out.
I prefer SFP LPVOs myself and I run a budget PA slx 1-6 and I quite like it. I would like some more clarity and will upgrade given the chance. But ill most likely stick with this style. I prefer more versatile setups and this makes me effective from 0-400m. Totally agree about the reticle choice. I still use a 36 yard zero with mine
@@CiviTac I haven't ran a fixed with a piggyback optic but I'm not really interested. I just want a single optic for a more simple setup. I would like to try a fixed power, but I don't have any decent ones at the moment.
Used to swear by the TA33 ACOG due to it’s quickness and great eye relief, but now the TR25 1-6x Accupoint w/Red Triangle Post reticle is my go-to. Like it’s ACOG sibling no batteries needed, and plenty of practical accuracy for general usage out to 350-400 yards.
Recently I've slapped my Acog/ Holosun 507C combo on my 12.5 inch AR15. ON A KRAM mount, ive been able to mitigate the eye relief issue. Plus, beings in the PNW, visibility for an "Inda woods" engagement would be suitable for a 4x optic where im not too concerned for a 500+ shot (potential, yet not super common. Id probably switch up to a differnt caliber/ optic style if i was to prepare for 600 or 700+ engagements). Having a holosun on top would be decent for the closer engagements/ Urban environment where im less concerned about chin welds, and more focused on quick rounds in a tight squeeze environment. Overall i enjoy this little set up, and look forward to putting your considerations in mind for the next time i go out with it! Thank you for this video! It was very informative! Keep up the content!
I went with the acog because of needing the magnification, but I like to orient everything over the idea of being able to pack it out, so durability and weight are my two biggest concerns
I have a TA-11 ACOG and a TA-24 Trijicon Accupoint 1x6. The ACOG is much easier to use and is amazingly clear. The FOV is great as well. I am considering another ACOG for the .308 that currently has the Accupoint. I may stick with it anyway, though. Life is full of these difficult decisions!
Great video! I would like to see you do a video with the best of these options and run shooters through a unknown distances with target identification and engagement course of fire. 3 shooting distances of 75, 250 and 500 with 10 different targets, at the beep the shooter would be given 5 targets to find, ID and engage. Time with hits and misses along with wrong targets engaged to make a score, may the best optic win. And while I'm here with video ideas and being very envious of your range and the topography. I would love to see a video on different camouflage patterns in the different vegetation that you have there.
Just wish a vortex would make a fixed power 6x scope with a venom mini red dot integrated onto the top where the elevation turret would normally be. Then just move the elevation turret to the opposite side of the windage turret. Saves on weight of variable zoom and extra mounting hardware.
I found the 3x magnifier from Primary Arms with a quick release LaRue Tactical Mount to be an affordable option that works good. I carved the rubber coating off the magnifier and replaced it with grip tape and it's very nicely compact and lighter. Also, I have the Holosun RD with ACSS reticle great for CQB and which magnifies nicely.
28:42 foe the ones wondering what is the whole BDC thing mentioned means. It is Bullet Drop Compensation, as far as I understand feom having it looked up
LPVO with a SFP reticle is way better than a FFP. Due to what you mentioned about it being so small at 1x on FFP. I’m not concerned at my holdover for 600yds unless I’m at full zoom anyways.
I agree but I actually kept my nx8 dmx over the atacr for weight n size….. atacr is better but to me not enough for weight…. My issue is nx8 and plxc…. Got both and I can’t get rid of either love them both
Wow. Next level insight into these options. I’m confused but In a good way. I’ve got a red dot, lpvo, and mpvo. Was considering ditching the lpvo for a second red dot. But after this video i think I’ll keep the lpvo. They all have a place.
Fellow lefty here: try switching your magnifiers so they flip over to the right. The portion of your peripheral vision they block is already mostly blocked by your support arm and they bump up against you and your gear instead of rocks and shit.
lots of great points to think about. Recently decided to upgrade from my first cheap rds to something more rugged (fell off the gun the first time I did anything beyond shooting from the bench, lol). Also, I like the Rimworld sound track!
Primary arms fan boi here. Griffin 1x8 is amazing Great take on the optic dilemma. I am leaning more towards prisms & lpvos as my eyes get worse with age.
Lpvos in general are considerably more “breakable” than an acog or t2. Worth considering when discussing a red dawn situation. If anything this highlights the importance of mission driven tools, in which packing out 1 of (at minimum) 2 rifles will be regular and the need for beefy gear will be evident, potentially painfully so when it’s too late to redo things.
I have a Leupold pig Plex 1.5 x 4 on one of my ARs sitting in an aero mount. 9 ounces plus 3 ounce mount for about 12 ounces for what ARs are capable of. It definitely fits MY bill. Simple red dots are nice. Especially in the 150$ dollar range imo. Fixed 3x mag optics or others simliar I'm getting used to, but don't love. Would be nice on some kind of patrol rifle or .308 battle rifle then an AR imo.
For me the most important thing is to understand your own priorities & limitations. My main limitation is budget/cost. My setup for a optic is set at less than 200 yards, low cost, light weight & small footprint. My compromise & choice: Fixed 3x Prism scope. It weighs 11 oz., is small, has a 5.5" eye relief, decent sized eye box, etched glass with optional illumination & is very robust. The cost is less than $150. It is not perfect or as flexible as a LVPO, but it is much cheaper, lighter, smaller, with greater eye relief & eye box & is a set & forget optic. A Red Dot is better in everyway for close ranges, but at distances great than 50', the 3x Prism shines. Since I have dedicated rifles for long distances, with real scopes, a 3x Prism is my choice for my main battle rifle, since I live in a urban area & I am not planning on the use of this rifle in the mountains of Afghanistan or deserts of Iraq. At this point, for the money, ACOG's should be much better, but for whatever reason they have not made many improvement since they were first adopted for military's use. I should add, at the low to mid-end price point 3x Magnifiers for Red Dots, are big, heavy, expensive, fragile & shrink the eye relief & eye box to much less than a LVPO or 3x Prism.
Really good analysis and I came to the same conclusion about the LPVO being the most general and overall the best for the average shooter, the Red Dot and ACOG as being more niche and specialized
But the whole point with the magnifying red dot is to have good sight picture from 50 to 150 yards. If you're going past that range i would go with the lpvo. Most combat situations that a common person would encounter would be between 10 to maybe 100 yards. Just my 2 cents I guess
Red dots are susceptible to two forms of aiming error: cheaply manufactured glass that distorts either the dot or the image of the target passing through the objective "lens" (it's not really doing any lensing, just reflecting of the emitter's red light) which is noticeable most commonly near the edges of the glass, and lateral displacement of the dot on the target when not centering the dot inside the optic window. The second one is frequently attributed to "parallax", but actual parallax issues (like on iron sights or scopes) introduce an angular error-- like being off by 1MOA-- which makes you miss your shot by a greater distance the farther out you're shooting. Red dots, meanwhile, have their reticle dots projected at infinity and do not suffer from parallax. Instead, when shooting targets at ranges closer than infinity, they introduce a displacement error. The good news is that the amount of the error is bounded by the size of your window. On something like a Romeo5 which has a 20mm diameter window a properly zeroed optic will cause you to miss by at most 10mm even if you're squeezing off shots while looking at the target through the edge of the window. The most important thing to do to minimize both sources of error is to ensure that the dot is in the centre of your optic but don't sweat it if it isn't-- you won't miss by much.
I think inevitably most dudes are gonna have to just arrive though trial and error. I tried dots and magnifiers and I tried LPVOs, eventually elcan OS4X fixed 4x and dot is where I landed. Solid video as always my guy 👍
@ approx 30:16 This is very interesting to me. I own a Kel Tec RDB 20" and I "frankensteined" together (through great effort and much expense lmao) a mounting method for getting my flip up front sight out to the actual end of my rifle as opposed to up on top of the optics rail. While I Initially only did so for the increase in sight radius, it soon became apparent that the front sight when flipped up actually cowitnesses perfectly with my lpvo reticle in 1x as long as my head is in the "correct" position. It also helps to actually find and use the reticle unilluminated which is a much bigger plus then I would have ever thought. Didn't know this was something the military actually taught at any point. 😅
I have really been enjoying the 1x prism and a magnifier as of late. If someone made a good variable power magnifier then it would hands down be one of the best SHTF options. On the other hand FFP LPVOs are getting much better now that they have figured out how to make a reticle that is usable at 1x while it is super tiny because FFP lol. In my opinion a SFP LPVO is stupid because you then only have accurate BDC markings at one magnification setting, but i would also say that untill recently there weren't very many FFP options that worked well at 1x.
Running a TR24 with a piggybacked 509T red dot has worked great for me as a nightvision user. Might upgrade the tr24 eventually, but I don't have very far sightlines where I live so it's not a big deal.
My favourite is something like a x1 to whatever with a top mounted red dot for passive aiming, faster aiming when at longer distance. Better for running and gunning with a red dot. Can get down in to the LPVO as needed
Optics choice depends on the environment you live in. I live in an area that is heavily wooded and there are very few instances that I would have to make a shot greater than 300 yds a 1-4 LPVO with a simple reticle works for me because it’s faster for CQB sight acquisition and I still have the ability to dial up magnification for longer shots and target ID. Someone living in an area with a lot of open land would be better served by something with more magnification and a more complex reticle with bdc
Really good informative content for people comparing their options! I think you are dead on with LPVO’s. Despite how far the tech has come, they are mediocre to poor performance at 1x and their top end is decent, but the eyebox gets tight and they are easily out classed by light weight 2-10’s at distance. Red dots are fine, point and shoot, most people don’t have a clue on how to zero a magnifier and I have seen newer shooters chasing a zero flipping back and forth between the magnifier. I have found myself back at the ACOG + red dot setup as optimal for most everything. Your point about training is crucial. Obviously you should always train with your gear, but the ACOG specifically requires training in various scenarios to get it right. Once you “get it” with the ACOG, it is hard to go back. Love these style videos man. Good shit!
After trying all the options I’m finding the Eotech & magnifier combo works best for me. Specifically I have an EXPS3-0 & Holosun Titanium 3x magnifier. Second choice is an lpvo, but man that eyebox at max magnification is rough.
@@civicsr2cool I have a bunch of eye issues (glasses, astigmatism, early signs of glaucoma) so what works for me will probably not work for very many other folks. The two setups are on guns with very different purposes so I guess I should’ve gone into more detail. For a shorter barreled gun used mainly for home defense & situations within 100-150 yards I prefer the Eotech/magnifier combo. On the longer barreled gun used for pest control & walking my property (25 acres) I prefer the lpvo. If it came down to it I could use either gun for either purpose, I just find myself being more comfortable with the Eotech setup.
@@cagneybillingsley2165 unless you run nightvision because for me acog with a backup red dot I can never get a good sight picture with my nods with it offset it doesn’t matter which degree it just doesn’t do it for me.
Great vid with a solid perspective. Terrain and environment are key factors in a lot of those decisions. The area I see y'all "playin" in is very different from my playground in the middle NC woodlands. Everything is some kindof compromise.. 🤠
Yes it was helpful. Right at the end of the video the guy that was shooting braced on a grey SUV. "I hope that wasn't yours". Every spent round scratched the clear coat. I have most of what your talking about. I hate Eotechs, I've had them and hate the radical. I have red dots on most of my guns. My mid range AR has a Vortex red dot and Flip up magnifier. I have never had sighting issues with it. I hate ACOGS. I would never look through one after the first time I did. I wondered about the LPVO. I've seen them but didn't know anything about them. I'm happy with what I have until I have a problem. Thanks for the video.
I just found your channel. I really like it. Your voice and details can keep my attention when i am interested. Yet i can also fall asleep watching when its bed time. I like the Eotech Holo Sights with fixed iron sights riding at 1/3rd below. My Coyote rifles have 2x7's, and my hunting rifles much better. Thanks so much for making these videos.
EOTech's are a holographic weapon sight with a 1MOA dot in the center. The reason it doesn't magnify is because it isn't a red dot. Holographic weapon sights remain 1MOA under magnification. Battery does suck on Holographic weapon sights but there are several other advantages to having a holo dot instead of a standard red dot.
@@taylorcompton7688 The dot stays the same size in relation to the target, but gets bigger as your eye perceives it. I have been using EOTech since the 553 and they all do this. They don’t use LEDs, but they aren’t magic either. The hologram is still subject to magnification.
This dude nailed the head on all of this. It's a tough choice! I own high end LPVO's, and acog, eotechs, and aimpoints. They're just all great its difficult to choose a single fav
I have a primary arms 5x prism optic coming in the mail today. Basically a poor mans acog except with a better reticle ( ACSS aurora M). I picked it in part from your videos based on the acog. It was also lighter and cheaper than an lpvo with a mount. Wish this video had dropped last week before I bought it lol. Love your videos. Keep up the good stuff
Vortex has a six times prism scope I was tempted to look at it makes me a bit nervous that is that magnified but maybe with a red dot on top it'd be more viable
I also have one, great and cheap. However, less than half the FOV. So, it's like a poormans acog with a toilet paper roll taped to the end. still, prism master race.
I have run an ACOG and RMR combo for a bit of time. I am a right haded shooter and when I need tk work closer in I kant the rifle until the RMR is in my left eye. Quick switch from one to the other and maintajn a good cheek weld
I went with an lpvo, had just a red dot for a long time. I like the ability to zoom in a little further if needed. As far as the 1x performance, I’ll have to see how I do with it. If I’m not as fast as I want to be with it I’ll top mount a red dot. Just got it a couple weeks ago and haven’t had a chance to try it yet. Waiting for my pistol that’s at the gunsmith to have the slide milled to mount a red dot so I can take both out to practice with. Someday I do want to build another gun with the eotech-magnifier combo. I’ve only shot an eotech once, but man it was so nice.
Eotech and red dot gets you out to a minimum 200y , some practice and a little skill will get you to 300. The issue is target ID, that's where the magnification comes in. If Eotech could up the battery life, which I understand is difficult, it would be my go to urban optic with a magnifier in my bag. It is just so easy for me to pick up the reticle quickly. I do use all three tho.
So my setups as followed: 1 to 10 lpvo and top mounted rds for .30hate power and distance SPR setup 4x Acog and top mount rds for shtf piston ar15 summer/spring 1.5x acog for shtf winter/fall ak setup 1 to 8 lpvo w/ rds top mounted for GPR DI ar15 Rds w/ magnifier on night vision/ close range SBR .300bo supressed Etched reticle 1x rds on PDW 300bo /9mm/ .45 . The reason for a rds on my lvpo and acog is not just for if I want to use for night vision or close range but top mounted rds help with shooting at awkward and weird positions which would be common in modern day rifle fighting and also more strategic to fight in weird positions your adversaries probably wouldn't even expect to be shot at in. try to shoot under a car or sideways through a magnified optic alone and watch all your shots hit everyone and their dog behind the target. Rds top mounted are very useful for more than nv and close range.
What if someone make a flip to side prism sight that is close to ACOG in performance? Then you just zero the prism to your red dot and ta-da, you have a perfect 1x red dot and a perfect 4x prism.
Well as a poor boi who has been running fixed irons on my 16" 556 gun for about 2 years, you have successfully convinced me to focus on finding an acceptably durable and functional 1-6x LPVO for my optics set up.... Now to begin budgeting for that 😢
Acog TA-31 Aurora /45° offset holosun micro for cqb. Better glass, light transmission, reticle, fov, reliability, and cqb than any other option. Less weight and price than lpvo. Wind holds, running target dots, ranging/fast mover scale. A rifleman's optic.
I'm wrong eye dominant and lack the time to train as much as Lucas, so LPVOS are just lousy scopes for me. Dots and magnifiers mean 4 surfaces to clean from snow and dust. And while I do use the full range on my trijicon 2-10 scope, I find that when I take a rifle hiking I set the scope to 4-5x and leave it there. Hence prism and piggyback dot is growing as my new favorite
As someone new to rifle shooting it seems like RD/MAG is probably the best for newer shooters. Cheap, rugged, versatile and best option for night vision. LPVO is the best for non night vision shooting if you have the money, and ACOG/RD for someone who’s experienced and wants something niche and specific.
P4xi (17oz) & Warne 1.9” Mount (7oz) with a 12 o’clock positioned Sig Romeo 1 (1oz) on a GG&G Comp B mount (1oz) for NVGs. Everything is a compromise but the balance of price, weight, ergonomics and glass quality of this setup is worth a look.
I reviewed the px4i back in the day It use to be my #1 pick for LPVOs almost in general but 100% under 700 bucks But then steiner raised the price from 450 to ~700
@@BrassFacts yeah, they are +$800 now but between a discount and 20% back in Optics Planet Bucks I was able to pick mine up for around $500 thankfully.
@@lordhellfire153 honestly I think lvpo are overrated. 1x is kinda fish eyed, and you have to line it up just right. especially if you need to run a red dot anyway. just my opinion.
@@RangeDayShootingSupply I just looked, a Trijicon Accupoint only weighs 13.7oz. Sure it's only available with garbage reticle options, but with the offset 509t would solve so many problems.
@@lordhellfire153 I have been running a leupold mark AR (I think they discontinued unfortunately) that I think was 300$ with a ring mounted holosun. Even on 3x I can get on shots pretty dang quick. I think most people run their lvpo somewhere in the middle most times anyway.
@@RangeDayShootingSupply I grew up using 3-9 on everything so snapping a shot at 25 yards with 3x is pretty easy for me as well. I want to get a dot but my actual use and training with it would be tough.
ACOG: we learned to use the Bindon Aiming System, superimposing chevron over close distance w/both eyes open, sort of negating any extra 1x device. I'm biased obviously, but for tiering up by adding dedicated 1× makes the most sense on a 5.56 w fairly limited point target accuracy
It could fall into the acog category, but i wish you would have included optics like the micro prisms ( 3x primary arms) i feel like they are similar to the acog but not the same as they are smaller, lighter and cost significantly less.
I personally would pick an acog. Acog’s eye relief while run and gunning are much easier to achieve. Also acogs are good out to 400-500 IFyou have time to place a shot. 4x acogs are great LPVO’s are good too though. They are better than acogs in prone static positions. However they aren’t as battle tested as acogs durability. I would choose a lpvo for a DMR type application. Because my experience with scope shadow and eye relief problems while not in the prone with lpvo’s. Acogs are top dog for now
I think my best overall is LPVO because then it’s at least not in the way like a flip magnifier and in my area I’m going to want magnification for target ID at least some of the time. I won’t need much more than 4x realistically though.
The Eotech is also the only optic with no forward light emissions. This is relevant when you are worried about your adversaries having night vision as well.
I have a GEN 1 hand held monocular. I didn’t believe it at first. It’s a dead giveaway.
the holosun holographic optic has forward emissions as well?
If someone has thermal it's all over anyway
If that's a concern, you can just leave the front covered and aim with both eyes.
@@CallofWar5
Since when has Holosun a holographic optic?
Brass facts in the morning. Now this is a true morning cartoon.
Kinda mean
Something worth mentioning for newbies considering a dot/magnifier: Cheap dots (i.e. Romeo MSR) might look blurry/smeared through a magnifier. I think it has to do with emitter alignment and quality but either way it's much harder to aim precisely when your reticle looks like a banana.
Also astigmatism can cause that, so even an aimpoint looks smeared to me.
3moa dot vs 2moa dot
Prism sights are the solution to astigmatism
@@spookyindeed the difference Is that the dot will look that way even without a magnifier if you bad astigmatisms.
So as long as you get a quality RDS to go with the good magnifier then precise aiming out to 400+ is absolutely possible.!.???
I honestly like them all for different reasons.
I go with the Red Dot/ Magnifier combo more often than anything else just because I really value the quickness & ease of use the Red Dot offers, then being able to switch to magnification on demand.
I live in the wooded mountains.
I don't have a terribly high amount of sight lines over 200 yards around, so this works for me in most imaginable situations.
What magnification did you settle on?? What’s your setup?
@@jeffheyer7783 Most magnifiers are 3x, but there are other options.
I have multiple setups, but the EOTech with EOTech magnifier is fantastic if you don't mind spending the money.
If you want to go a cheaper route, you can pickup a Holosun magnifier & optic for much cheaper & it will still be really good.
@@jeffheyer7783I believe most people like 3x magnifiers.
We are in the deserts ofAZ, although we have a lot of mountains in other areas .So I a use full power cartridge.Also, we can see a long way in a lot of places,so we use scopes around 4x20, and 45 degree red dots.Best of all worlds.Fantastic weapon up close or faraway.😊
Buy all three and then run whatever is trendy that month so you never feel left out.
done!
No no no, just have three identical rifles except for the optic. If you are too poor for that, three uppers.
This is genius! Why didn't I think of that?!😂😂😂😂😂😂
But I’m poor
Yeah, being poor is a show stopper in the gun world.
Agreed the magnifier holo/RDS setup is incredibly versatile and for me almost always excel over the LPVO.
I've tried like hell and wasted alot of money mixing and matching abunch of different red dot / magnifier combos because ultimately that's how I wanted to run my rifle. I love having practically minimal parallax with a red dot and the option to flip magnification when necessary just seemed like the perfect build for me but I just could never get comfortable or become efficient as well as I do with an LPVO.
Just get a 3x magnified optic. Very capable at CQB distances and can always add a red dot at 45 or above optic.
@@TerminalM193 all personal preference, I guess.
SuperSetCA: th-cam.com/video/jilqXipJFm0/w-d-xo.html
I say it depends on your range, but some high quality LPVO definitely compete.
After much of my own experimentation, I ended up settling on red dots + magnifier. RDSs are easier to shoot with passively under night vision without fussing with diopters, and the magnifier can be flipped or added back to give you that little bit of magnification you need to punch out at range.
For non-night vision rifles it's more muddy, but generally I prefer 1 to 4-6 power LPVOs
Why would you want to “passively” shoot with night vision?
@@Lifechanging99999 In case someone else has night vision?
@@jarvy251what are you going to do when they hear you? Just stay within a small area. SLLS.
@@Lifechanging99999 What are they going to do when they don't have a convenient laser beam tracing back to my exact firing position regardless of situation? I'm not sure why I have to explain why "making it difficult to be located" is a good thing.
@@jarvy251 lol let me guess you were in the military?
I have a aimpoint comp m5 and a EOTech, a sign msr, an RMR, a Leupold 2-12x44.
Got to say there is some freaking special sauce in the EOTech. It's my favorite for sure.
One of the things I really got to say about these kind of videos as informative as they can be is that you really individually need to go out and see how your eyes handle different things.
For example, many of the pros of a red. May be lost in somebody with an astigmatism.
Similarly, there can be eye issues that make LPVOs really detrimental.
Additionally, common use cases can qualify or disqualify each of these options.
Some people may actually find that irons serves them far better than they would expect.
This anyway has been my great revelation is getting to the range and finding something absolutely does not work for my eyes. Specific siding systems I cannot follow under duress. Other sighting systems are almost intuitive.
I’m blown away you only have 20k and change subscribers. This is truly high quality content, you’re knowledgeable, honest, and maybe most importantly, you are skilled at explaining complicated concepts and philosophies in a simple way. Perhaps the thing that impresses me the most is you are never ever afraid to shit on something, even your personal favorite optics. I don’t know too many people who will admit the shortcomings of their favored gear. P.S., your explanation of the Elcan Specter D.R. inspired me to grab one up when I stumbled on a fairly good sale price, about to throw it on a 13.7” that previously had an ACOG/ canted 407C. The moment you started going on and on about the amazing glass quality and the way the bigger objective lens makes for a bigger picture that makes the magnification seem like more than it is? That immediately resonated with me, and it was precisely then that I realized I’m going to mostly trust what you have to say unless I have firsthand knowledge or personal preferences that differ. Phenomenal content, friend.
Victor- ACOGs are great optics but they was originally designed for a 16 inch carbine. I hope you enjoy your new Elcan spec!
About to break 50k now
Oh the gun-tuber game has been sleeping on B.F. (Nova) & Hoplephiel for AWHILE, but their started to come up, plus the younger crowd really relates to them in some ways they don't other BIG channels, their attitude, philosophies, and opinions combined with smart ass drunken humor we all can relate to. Plus their the MOST LIKE US.... DEFINITELY WILL GET A WIN FOR THE GUN-TUBER AWARDS IN THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS.!!! just keep it up, and Hop & You etc. Get together and make some purpose driven shooting sessions filmed! Always great watch y'all do some unique NV, SPR, and short to mid range content.
Yeah everything you said is true. For myself, he went on about the Eotech 'battery tax' which was really an unfounded bias on his part - those things will run for 600 hours which is plenty of time for any user.
@@Kismetix ikr, I'm saving up for a GOOD optics setup for my main rifle a 13.9" either want a GOOD RDS OR EOTECH & MAGNIFIER, OR AN LPVO & OFFSET RDS. AS LONG AS I CAN POSITIVE ID THINGS AND MAKE CONSISTENT HITS OUT TO 400Y ..... THINKING AN EOTECH & MAGNIFIER WOULD DO GREAT..... YOU KNOW OF ANY OTHER AROUND $400 OPTICS THAT ARE GOOD!???
RCO mounts that bring the optic rearward such as the larue, GDI, or a KRAM riser makes the TA31 much easier to use.
GDI mount is great, never tried the others, but they're pretty much necessary if using a fixed stock.
Do they interfere with the charging handle at all?
@@borkwoof696 no more than normal mounts
You are the reason why I have gone with the acog. I actually just won an acog rmr setup on the broker for 850 but I got lucky. but I'm curious about those elcans. either way I also made my decision based off of realistic engagement distances in my suburban area since it just makes sense. also considering these fixed prism sights from primary arms. I can see the market changing relatively quickly
also since I have had my acog I have found that people see it as like a hipster choice almost like I am trying to be different for not going with an lpvo. it could just be me but I feel like the simplicity of a fixed zoom durable optic beats out the headache of keeping up to date with the lpvo gang
@@SuperMrBguy also laugh in their face with 36 feet of FOV at 100
The new PA prisms are awesome!!
Elcan is nice
Acog Aurora for the win 💕 45° offset holosun micro for cqb. Better glass, light transmission, reticle, fov, reliability, and cqb than any other option. Less weight and price than lpvo.
I will add the advice that whatever setup you decide to run, TRAIN with it! Train with it in different situations and conditions (positions & lighting). Makes a world of difference on how well you can use it.
The Rimworld threw me so hard. My wife was playing Rimworld while I was watching this and I had to stop the video a few times to check where the music was coming from 😂.
Good video though! Just what I was looking for. I have an astigmatism and find the eye relief and weight of the LPVO to be personally difficult to work with. I’m also bad though, so there’s that…
IMO, after having countless acogs, elcans, and magnified red dots, I really really genuinely believe the TA33 is the best fighting rifle magnified optic. The PA3x gets a nod if you're on a budget as I feel it gets pretty close but lacks the eye relief and quickness of the TA33. (I actually use a PA3x because it gets me most the things I like with the TA33 but allows me to passively aim since I can adjust the brightness.)
If you want more magnification and more bias to distance, you really need a bipod and a good scope to make use of it. Magnification much over 3-4x really starts needing a parallax dial and a very stable shooting position to use.
TA33 or TA11 are cool but even with the RDS i think ''esp'' in a commie state that it would run poorly with nods simply because you cannot easily adjust the stock
interesting take. I'm inclined to lean towards this attitude. that being said, I run LPVOs because of the nice balance of performance, price, and magnification.
just used the sig 4x and the eye relief and eye box are trash but the glass clarity is fantastic and the reticle is good too. I still like it and can recognize it's utility as a fighting rifle optic. Would love to try a TA33
When you say primary arms 3x - are you talking about the new micro prism or you talking about the older prism scope
have had the Kahles 1-6, Aimpoint Micro, never liked the eotechs, ended up with the TA33, best compromise of em all
For a general purpose rifle the 3x acogs are excellent
Lightweight, robust, and simple to use. No switches, knobs, or batteries...
Agreed. Recently picked up the new PA micro 3x, weighs basically nothing and has a very good view through it. Can't comment on durability. Also have a Vortex 5x micro prism but that's a bit too much magnification with an eyebox that's too tight for anything but precision. My experience with LVPO's is spend $2k+ or just don't bother. I feel like a 2.5-10x is a better option than most LVPO's tbh since the LVPO's just make too many compromises.
ACOG or ELCAN? which do you think is best for a gp rifle?
@@martino7263 the one that doesn't cost 2 grand...
@@kadan_gustafson6609 isn't the ACOG just a few hundred dollars less? Might actually need to check the prices.
@@martino7263 Well, on optics planet the 4x ACOG is a little over 1 grand. The Elcan Spectre is 2 grand on optics planet.
Love my TA31 with a Holosun 507c on top. I gave the ACOG a battery illumination just like the TA02 (instead of taping chemlights to it).It is called the REM ACOG (Reticle Enhancement Module). It has 11 brightness settings so it works in all light conditions. It covers half of the fiber optic so it reduces the Reticle Bloom in bright sunlight. It is made of the same 30% glass filled Polymer as AR pistol grips. Oh... It eliminates the need to replace a dead or dim tritium because you just turn the power to #1 and you have the soft glow for night time aiming. Great upgrade to the TA31! Illumination at your finger tips.
In order to address the three options fairly you need to consider the top of the line mounts that fix the problems related to each. For example...the Unity FAST mount and Flip To Center system paired with the Eotech and thier new 5x magnifier. Or the ACOG with a high/rear set mount paired with an offset red dot. Each of these systems can come in for approximately $1,500.00. That sounds like a lot. But, when compared to the LVPO market that generally runs $1,000.00 to $3,000.00 then the cost begins to have some value. It also helps to realize that most of these sighting systems are being marketed and utilized on 5.56mm setups. This means a bullet that is designed arround an effective range of about 550 meters. In that context the 4x ACOG, the 5x Eotech, or the 6x Aimpoint begin to compete strongly. For the cost, weight, ease of use, ability to hand that weapon system off to a new user, etc. These systems can be far supperior. Just my 2 cents. Hope that helps.
I’m happy with my 1-6x vcog on a quick detach AC12033(bobro mount) also enjoy practicing close in quick shots just using irons. Noticed in the video the Steiner 1-4x, that is a great value
the area you shoot at is amazing!
as a collector in Switzerland I've been trying all the setups you mentioned, but I've only ever shot to 100m on a flat range at the most. for now my preference lies with the RDS+magnifier setup but I like the one LPVO I have that I run with an offset Holosun rds.
Great video. This is why I have multiple platforms with different optic setups for different uses.
LPVO & Prism for a GPS rifle. RDS / Magnifier combo for shorter barrel applications where 300 yards is absolute max I'd use it. Also this setup on my NV platforms (no Magnifier but obviously with IR attachments). And with good prisms available these days, I don't even own an ACOG any longer.
My one rifle that runs only an RDS is my duty rifle with a 16" pencil barrel. Potential engagement will typically be shorter range and I will be carrying my rifle more than using it, so weight is best kept as light as possible. Don't need a Magnifier adding weight & complexity to it. Just rifle, light, & RDS.
new subscriber, I am glad i ran into your channel. This video, has a lot of great info, especially for me, retired USMC, and just wanting to build one of my own, you have easily answered a shit ton of my questions. I even watched it times today! I thank you, and looking fwd to more of your down to earth great videos! You earned my subscription gladly.
Personally in love with the primary arms 3x micro, easy all rounder with 1/4 moa adjustments for fine aiming but great eye relief
I second this the PA slx 3x is amazing! I own an eotech vudu, Vortex razor, eotech xps3-0 and 3 acogs for the money the clarity and that ACSS reticle it a slam dunk! Its like a modern day lighter acog at a quarter of the price
Do you own the pa 3x? I was super excited to get one and it has very short eye box. Looking to trade mine out, which is something I don't normally do.
@@christianknight2905 if you think the eye box is short might want to give an lpvo 1-6x a try but don't think it's that short at all for scopes in general' but if not happy with those try 1x power optics will be the only thing left' but won't try 4x acog, a 3x trijicon acog has one of the longest eyebox I've seen but reticle options and the trade off is less viewing at distance
My training and experience is mainly with fixed-power prism optics and I find them to be my ideal set up for two reasons: Magnification is great for identification, and Nothing to mess with while shooting. I use a laser or flashlight for point shooting in close ranges(sub 100yds), so anything where I'm looking down the sights benefits from the magnification, especially the ability to identify my target. Not having anything to mess with while shooting ties into the point shooting method where I want to be able to load and go for my weapon. No dials to adjust, no magnifier to toggle, etc. BDC reticles mean I can just interact with what I see in the scope and my two hands are immediately on the controls while also handling the weapon. Pressure switches, safety, and trigger are the only manipulations I need and they are already there without needing to move my hands. I tried the Red dot and found it lacking in the reticle in terms of feedback and I found an LPVO takes my focus away from my surroundings and instead I was pulled inward to fooling with the dials or illumination so it makes the weapon less of an extension and more of a burden to Work Around rather than Working With.
So what do you use?
@@kill.z0n3 Primary Arms 5x for my .308 and iron sights for my 5.56 while I save for a good red dot, probably a mid tier aimpoint. Though I'm comfortable with Iron sights and should probably just spend that money on training ammo.
@@luckyomen I’ve been running the Leupold RDS. But I can’t shoot anything past 100 yards. Any suggestions for an optic?
I've check out a primary arms 3x for a decent starter optic for out to 300 yards with a AR15. Red dots are ok for 200 or less if you have a good zero. Otherwise I'd say start out on irons until you can hit a man sized target at 100. A red dot doesn't really give you a reference point if you're optic isn't zeroed and have nothing else to go off of.
@@luckyomen the 3x primary arms microprism is pretty sweet. I’ve shot mine to 515 yds or so relatively easily. And it’s pretty useful up close too. It’s hard to beat
You can fix some of the eye relief problems of the ACOG with the Weapon Outiftters KRAM mounts. You might want to take a look at those.
I'm a fan of SFP LPVO scopes. After buying my first one I'd like to ditch the BDC reticle and just have MOA or mil holdovers. Also I now realize eye relief and eyebox forgiveness are paramount. Also, hot take, budget LPVOs suck a lot more than I thought they would
This was a Viper, or something cheaper?
@@armadilloeggs231 cheaper. I bought the sig tango with the included mount. The mount is great, the optic sucks. I know I got what I paid for but I wanted to see if I even like the idea of an LPVO. The jury is still out.
I prefer SFP LPVOs myself and I run a budget PA slx 1-6 and I quite like it. I would like some more clarity and will upgrade given the chance. But ill most likely stick with this style. I prefer more versatile setups and this makes me effective from 0-400m. Totally agree about the reticle choice. I still use a 36 yard zero with mine
@@CallofWar5 have you ran a fixed magnification with a canted or piggy back red dot? I want to try it out
@@CiviTac
I haven't ran a fixed with a piggyback optic but I'm not really interested. I just want a single optic for a more simple setup. I would like to try a fixed power, but I don't have any decent ones at the moment.
Used to swear by the TA33 ACOG due to it’s quickness and great eye relief, but now the TR25 1-6x Accupoint w/Red Triangle Post reticle is my go-to. Like it’s ACOG sibling no batteries needed, and plenty of practical accuracy for general usage out to 350-400 yards.
How much did you pay?
I still swear by the TA33
The weight of the TR25 is double
@@TerminalM193 $800 total for my TR25 with a LaRue VFZ Mount.
@@Salty_Boogers fair enough, but the weight doesn’t bother me a bit. 🍻
Recently I've slapped my Acog/ Holosun 507C combo on my 12.5 inch AR15. ON A KRAM mount, ive been able to mitigate the eye relief issue. Plus, beings in the PNW, visibility for an "Inda woods" engagement would be suitable for a 4x optic where im not too concerned for a 500+ shot (potential, yet not super common. Id probably switch up to a differnt caliber/ optic style if i was to prepare for 600 or 700+ engagements). Having a holosun on top would be decent for the closer engagements/ Urban environment where im less concerned about chin welds, and more focused on quick rounds in a tight squeeze environment.
Overall i enjoy this little set up, and look forward to putting your considerations in mind for the next time i go out with it! Thank you for this video! It was very informative! Keep up the content!
I went with the acog because of needing the magnification, but I like to orient everything over the idea of being able to pack it out, so durability and weight are my two biggest concerns
I have a TA-11 ACOG and a TA-24 Trijicon Accupoint 1x6. The ACOG is much easier to use and is amazingly clear. The FOV is great as well. I am considering another ACOG for the .308 that currently has the Accupoint. I may stick with it anyway, though. Life is full of these difficult decisions!
Just got the Trijicon VCOG has huge eye relief almost 3” 1-8 magnification
Great video! I would like to see you do a video with the best of these options and run shooters through a unknown distances with target identification and engagement course of fire. 3 shooting distances of 75, 250 and 500 with 10 different targets, at the beep the shooter would be given 5 targets to find, ID and engage. Time with hits and misses along with wrong targets engaged to make a score, may the best optic win.
And while I'm here with video ideas and being very envious of your range and the topography. I would love to see a video on different camouflage patterns in the different vegetation that you have there.
Just wish a vortex would make a fixed power 6x scope with a venom mini red dot integrated onto the top where the elevation turret would normally be. Then just move the elevation turret to the opposite side of the windage turret. Saves on weight of variable zoom and extra mounting hardware.
I found the 3x magnifier from Primary Arms with a quick release LaRue Tactical Mount to be an affordable option that works good. I carved the rubber coating off the magnifier and replaced it with grip tape and it's very nicely compact and lighter. Also, I have the Holosun RD with ACSS reticle great for CQB and which magnifies nicely.
28:42 foe the ones wondering what is the whole BDC thing mentioned means. It is Bullet Drop Compensation, as far as I understand feom having it looked up
LPVO with a SFP reticle is way better than a FFP. Due to what you mentioned about it being so small at 1x on FFP. I’m not concerned at my holdover for 600yds unless I’m at full zoom anyways.
Seems like some got it right (ATACR 1-8) but I agree.
I agree but I actually kept my nx8 dmx over the atacr for weight n size….. atacr is better but to me not enough for weight…. My issue is nx8 and plxc…. Got both and I can’t get rid of either love them both
Thank you for using the rimworld soundtrack for this
Wow. Next level insight into these options. I’m confused but In a good way.
I’ve got a red dot, lpvo, and mpvo. Was considering ditching the lpvo for a second red dot. But after this video i think I’ll keep the lpvo. They all have a place.
“MPVO”?
Fellow lefty here: try switching your magnifiers so they flip over to the right. The portion of your peripheral vision they block is already mostly blocked by your support arm and they bump up against you and your gear instead of rocks and shit.
lots of great points to think about. Recently decided to upgrade from my first cheap rds to something more rugged (fell off the gun the first time I did anything beyond shooting from the bench, lol). Also, I like the Rimworld sound track!
Primary arms fan boi here.
Griffin 1x8 is amazing
Great take on the optic dilemma. I am leaning more towards prisms & lpvos as my eyes get worse with age.
Phenomenal video. Informative and without a 10 min flashy intro.
Love the Rimworld music, knew I recognized it
Lpvos in general are considerably more “breakable” than an acog or t2. Worth considering when discussing a red dawn situation. If anything this highlights the importance of mission driven tools, in which packing out 1 of (at minimum) 2 rifles will be regular and the need for beefy gear will be evident, potentially painfully so when it’s too late to redo things.
Elcan seems nice; that being said, I really like the ACOG!
@@lost_achaean6771weight and durability killed the lpvo for me.
I have a Leupold pig Plex 1.5 x 4 on one of my ARs sitting in an aero mount. 9 ounces plus 3 ounce mount for about 12 ounces for what ARs are capable of. It definitely fits MY bill.
Simple red dots are nice. Especially in the 150$ dollar range imo.
Fixed 3x mag optics or others simliar I'm getting used to, but don't love. Would be nice on some kind of patrol rifle or .308 battle rifle then an AR imo.
For me the most important thing is to understand your own priorities & limitations. My main limitation is budget/cost. My setup for a optic is set at less than 200 yards, low cost, light weight & small footprint. My compromise & choice: Fixed 3x Prism scope. It weighs 11 oz., is small, has a 5.5" eye relief, decent sized eye box, etched glass with optional illumination & is very robust. The cost is less than $150. It is not perfect or as flexible as a LVPO, but it is much cheaper, lighter, smaller, with greater eye relief & eye box & is a set & forget optic. A Red Dot is better in everyway for close ranges, but at distances great than 50', the 3x Prism shines. Since I have dedicated rifles for long distances, with real scopes, a 3x Prism is my choice for my main battle rifle, since I live in a urban area & I am not planning on the use of this rifle in the mountains of Afghanistan or deserts of Iraq. At this point, for the money, ACOG's should be much better, but for whatever reason they have not made many improvement since they were first adopted for military's use. I should add, at the low to mid-end price point 3x Magnifiers for Red Dots, are big, heavy, expensive, fragile & shrink the eye relief & eye box to much less than a LVPO or 3x Prism.
Really good analysis and I came to the same conclusion about the LPVO being the most general and overall the best for the average shooter, the Red Dot and ACOG as being more niche and specialized
But the whole point with the magnifying red dot is to have good sight picture from 50 to 150 yards. If you're going past that range i would go with the lpvo. Most combat situations that a common person would encounter would be between 10 to maybe 100 yards. Just my 2 cents I guess
Red dots are susceptible to two forms of aiming error: cheaply manufactured glass that distorts either the dot or the image of the target passing through the objective "lens" (it's not really doing any lensing, just reflecting of the emitter's red light) which is noticeable most commonly near the edges of the glass, and lateral displacement of the dot on the target when not centering the dot inside the optic window.
The second one is frequently attributed to "parallax", but actual parallax issues (like on iron sights or scopes) introduce an angular error-- like being off by 1MOA-- which makes you miss your shot by a greater distance the farther out you're shooting. Red dots, meanwhile, have their reticle dots projected at infinity and do not suffer from parallax. Instead, when shooting targets at ranges closer than infinity, they introduce a displacement error. The good news is that the amount of the error is bounded by the size of your window. On something like a Romeo5 which has a 20mm diameter window a properly zeroed optic will cause you to miss by at most 10mm even if you're squeezing off shots while looking at the target through the edge of the window.
The most important thing to do to minimize both sources of error is to ensure that the dot is in the centre of your optic but don't sweat it if it isn't-- you won't miss by much.
Best video I've seen so far on the differences in these systems. Thank you. Looking forward to more.
I think inevitably most dudes are gonna have to just arrive though trial and error. I tried dots and magnifiers and I tried LPVOs, eventually elcan OS4X fixed 4x and dot is where I landed.
Solid video as always my guy 👍
This video is basically perfect. Very well done, thank you!
I dunno man, I only got about a 2 min intro - not a 10 min :/
@ approx 30:16
This is very interesting to me. I own a Kel Tec RDB 20" and I "frankensteined" together (through great effort and much expense lmao) a mounting method for getting my flip up front sight out to the actual end of my rifle as opposed to up on top of the optics rail. While I Initially only did so for the increase in sight radius, it soon became apparent that the front sight when flipped up actually cowitnesses perfectly with my lpvo reticle in 1x as long as my head is in the "correct" position. It also helps to actually find and use the reticle unilluminated which is a much bigger plus then I would have ever thought. Didn't know this was something the military actually taught at any point. 😅
you need to post this thing because 1. i love RDBs, 2. i love my RDB20, and 3. that sounds baller
I have really been enjoying the 1x prism and a magnifier as of late. If someone made a good variable power magnifier then it would hands down be one of the best SHTF options. On the other hand FFP LPVOs are getting much better now that they have figured out how to make a reticle that is usable at 1x while it is super tiny because FFP lol. In my opinion a SFP LPVO is stupid because you then only have accurate BDC markings at one magnification setting, but i would also say that untill recently there weren't very many FFP options that worked well at 1x.
Running a TR24 with a piggybacked 509T red dot has worked great for me as a nightvision user. Might upgrade the tr24 eventually, but I don't have very far sightlines where I live so it's not a big deal.
My favourite is something like a x1 to whatever with a top mounted red dot for passive aiming, faster aiming when at longer distance. Better for running and gunning with a red dot. Can get down in to the LPVO as needed
Optics choice depends on the environment you live in. I live in an area that is heavily wooded and there are very few instances that I would have to make a shot greater than 300 yds a 1-4 LPVO with a simple reticle works for me because it’s faster for CQB sight acquisition and I still have the ability to dial up magnification for longer shots and target ID. Someone living in an area with a lot of open land would be better served by something with more magnification and a more complex reticle with bdc
Same here.
Awesome job here. This definitely opened my understanding of the options I've been looking at.
Really good informative content for people comparing their options!
I think you are dead on with LPVO’s. Despite how far the tech has come, they are mediocre to poor performance at 1x and their top end is decent, but the eyebox gets tight and they are easily out classed by light weight 2-10’s at distance.
Red dots are fine, point and shoot, most people don’t have a clue on how to zero a magnifier and I have seen newer shooters chasing a zero flipping back and forth between the magnifier.
I have found myself back at the ACOG + red dot setup as optimal for most everything. Your point about training is crucial. Obviously you should always train with your gear, but the ACOG specifically requires training in various scenarios to get it right. Once you “get it” with the ACOG, it is hard to go back.
Love these style videos man. Good shit!
Excellent video for newbies like me! I feel much more aware of what kind of optic I could use now.
After trying all the options I’m finding the Eotech & magnifier combo works best for me. Specifically I have an EXPS3-0 & Holosun Titanium 3x magnifier.
Second choice is an lpvo, but man that eyebox at max magnification is rough.
I can’t find a magnifier that has a hood eye box, my lpvo’s have better eye boxes in my experience.
despite all the advancement, the acog with backup red dot is still the fastest and most efficient
@@civicsr2cool I have a bunch of eye issues (glasses, astigmatism, early signs of glaucoma) so what works for me will probably not work for very many other folks. The two setups are on guns with very different purposes so I guess I should’ve gone into more detail. For a shorter barreled gun used mainly for home defense & situations within 100-150 yards I prefer the Eotech/magnifier combo. On the longer barreled gun used for pest control & walking my property (25 acres) I prefer the lpvo. If it came down to it I could use either gun for either purpose, I just find myself being more comfortable with the Eotech setup.
@@civicsr2cool Optical performance is always going to be a drawback with magnifiers compared to LPVOs
@@cagneybillingsley2165 unless you run nightvision because for me acog with a backup red dot I can never get a good sight picture with my nods with it offset it doesn’t matter which degree it just doesn’t do it for me.
Great vid with a solid perspective. Terrain and environment are key factors in a lot of those decisions. The area I see y'all "playin" in is very different from my playground in the middle NC woodlands. Everything is some kindof compromise.. 🤠
Yes it was helpful. Right at the end of the video the guy that was shooting braced on a grey SUV. "I hope that wasn't yours". Every spent round scratched the clear coat. I have most of what your talking about. I hate Eotechs, I've had them and hate the radical. I have red dots on most of my guns. My mid range AR has a Vortex red dot and Flip up magnifier. I have never had sighting issues with it. I hate ACOGS. I would never look through one after the first time I did. I wondered about the LPVO. I've seen them but didn't know anything about them. I'm happy with what I have until I have a problem. Thanks for the video.
I just found your channel. I really like it. Your voice and details can keep my attention when i am interested. Yet i can also fall asleep watching when its bed time.
I like the Eotech Holo Sights with fixed iron sights riding at 1/3rd below.
My Coyote rifles have 2x7's, and my hunting rifles much better.
Thanks so much for making these videos.
EOTech's are a holographic weapon sight with a 1MOA dot in the center. The reason it doesn't magnify is because it isn't a red dot. Holographic weapon sights remain 1MOA under magnification. Battery does suck on Holographic weapon sights but there are several other advantages to having a holo dot instead of a standard red dot.
@Florida Man HVACR that or use shake awake technology
That’s not true, the dot gets bigger
@burtrandolph1745 have one. If your dot get bigger, it's a fake.
@@taylorcompton7688 The dot stays the same size in relation to the target, but gets bigger as your eye perceives it. I have been using EOTech since the 553 and they all do this. They don’t use LEDs, but they aren’t magic either. The hologram is still subject to magnification.
This dude nailed the head on all of this. It's a tough choice! I own high end LPVO's, and acog, eotechs, and aimpoints. They're just all great its difficult to choose a single fav
Thanks!
thank you!
Underrated channel.
I have a primary arms 5x prism optic coming in the mail today. Basically a poor mans acog except with a better reticle ( ACSS aurora M). I picked it in part from your videos based on the acog. It was also lighter and cheaper than an lpvo with a mount. Wish this video had dropped last week before I bought it lol. Love your videos. Keep up the good stuff
Build another upper, just cuz😬
Vortex has a six times prism scope I was tempted to look at it makes me a bit nervous that is that magnified but maybe with a red dot on top it'd be more viable
You live in a beautiful area what part of the country is that? No I'm not trying to dox you I'm in Canada.
@@top6ear you mean a 6x red dot magnifier. It’s not a scope.
I also have one, great and cheap. However, less than half the FOV. So, it's like a poormans acog with a toilet paper roll taped to the end. still, prism master race.
A new Brass Facts vid? Popcorn time.
I have run an ACOG and RMR combo for a bit of time. I am a right haded shooter and when I need tk work closer in I kant the rifle until the RMR is in my left eye. Quick switch from one to the other and maintajn a good cheek weld
I went with an lpvo, had just a red dot for a long time. I like the ability to zoom in a little further if needed. As far as the 1x performance, I’ll have to see how I do with it. If I’m not as fast as I want to be with it I’ll top mount a red dot. Just got it a couple weeks ago and haven’t had a chance to try it yet. Waiting for my pistol that’s at the gunsmith to have the slide milled to mount a red dot so I can take both out to practice with. Someday I do want to build another gun with the eotech-magnifier combo. I’ve only shot an eotech once, but man it was so nice.
Love the AGL handguard! Sad they discontinued them. Thanks for the video
Eotech and red dot gets you out to a minimum 200y , some practice and a little skill will get you to 300. The issue is target ID, that's where the magnification comes in.
If Eotech could up the battery life, which I understand is difficult, it would be my go to urban optic with a magnifier in my bag. It is just so easy for me to pick up the reticle quickly.
I do use all three tho.
What a great summary man. Thanks for sharing
The PA Aurora ACOG was so awesome.
Rest in piece
Man I have a full day on the tractor and this is clutch!
So my setups as followed:
1 to 10 lpvo and top mounted rds for .30hate power and distance SPR setup
4x Acog and top mount rds for shtf piston ar15 summer/spring
1.5x acog for shtf winter/fall ak setup
1 to 8 lpvo w/ rds top mounted for GPR DI ar15
Rds w/ magnifier on night vision/ close range SBR .300bo supressed
Etched reticle 1x rds on PDW 300bo /9mm/ .45 .
The reason for a rds on my lvpo and acog is not just for if I want to use for night vision or close range but top mounted rds help with shooting at awkward and weird positions which would be common in modern day rifle fighting and also more strategic to fight in weird positions your adversaries probably wouldn't even expect to be shot at in. try to shoot under a car or sideways through a magnified optic alone and watch all your shots hit everyone and their dog behind the target. Rds top mounted are very useful for more than nv and close range.
Your background music reminds me of the ambient outdoor music in Red Dead Redemption 2 and I LOVE it!
What if someone make a flip to side prism sight that is close to ACOG in performance? Then you just zero the prism to your red dot and ta-da, you have a perfect 1x red dot and a perfect 4x prism.
Well as a poor boi who has been running fixed irons on my 16" 556 gun for about 2 years, you have successfully convinced me to focus on finding an acceptably durable and functional 1-6x LPVO for my optics set up....
Now to begin budgeting for that 😢
Acog TA-31 Aurora /45° offset holosun micro for cqb. Better glass, light transmission, reticle, fov, reliability, and cqb than any other option. Less weight and price than lpvo. Wind holds, running target dots, ranging/fast mover scale. A rifleman's optic.
I'm wrong eye dominant and lack the time to train as much as Lucas, so LPVOS are just lousy scopes for me. Dots and magnifiers mean 4 surfaces to clean from snow and dust. And while I do use the full range on my trijicon 2-10 scope, I find that when I take a rifle hiking I set the scope to 4-5x and leave it there. Hence prism and piggyback dot is growing as my new favorite
I was like "Hmm this music sounds VERY familiar...RIMWORLD" lol good choice
Feyachi reddot and 3x flipscope is great..always stays on target.just bought a budget 1x6 lpvo...hopefully works good
Where do some of the PA prism options stack up in this discussion?
Specifically the Glx 2x?
As someone new to rifle shooting it seems like RD/MAG is probably the best for newer shooters. Cheap, rugged, versatile and best option for night vision. LPVO is the best for non night vision shooting if you have the money, and ACOG/RD for someone who’s experienced and wants something niche and specific.
P4xi (17oz) & Warne 1.9” Mount (7oz) with a 12 o’clock positioned Sig Romeo 1 (1oz) on a GG&G Comp B mount (1oz) for NVGs. Everything is a compromise but the balance of price, weight, ergonomics and glass quality of this setup is worth a look.
I reviewed the px4i back in the day
It use to be my #1 pick for LPVOs almost in general but 100% under 700 bucks
But then steiner raised the price from 450 to ~700
@@BrassFacts yeah, they are +$800 now but between a discount and 20% back in Optics Planet Bucks I was able to pick mine up for around $500 thankfully.
i want to try one of the 1x/6x flip lens optics, they look pretty useful as you get a 'true' 1x
also vortex need to make a 1-6x Crossfire II
Is that rimworld music.... ?
Yes
LPVO and 45 degree red dot is the most useful all around option for me.
Dumb as bricks
Funny you made this video. This past week I've been researching this exact topic
Magnification is incredibly important. If I'm not gonna have it, I'll probably just run a carry handle tbh
I like a basic 3x9 scope (with a red dot) over the lvpo. more forgiving eye box. depends on your use case. thanks for the video.
I'm starting to wonder if this is truly the best way to go. Stack the dot and you get that nice heads up position for stuff.
@@lordhellfire153 honestly I think lvpo are overrated. 1x is kinda fish eyed, and you have to line it up just right. especially if you need to run a red dot anyway. just my opinion.
@@RangeDayShootingSupply I just looked, a Trijicon Accupoint only weighs 13.7oz. Sure it's only available with garbage reticle options, but with the offset 509t would solve so many problems.
@@lordhellfire153 I have been running a leupold mark AR (I think they discontinued unfortunately) that I think was 300$ with a ring mounted holosun. Even on 3x I can get on shots pretty dang quick. I think most people run their lvpo somewhere in the middle most times anyway.
@@RangeDayShootingSupply I grew up using 3-9 on everything so snapping a shot at 25 yards with 3x is pretty easy for me as well. I want to get a dot but my actual use and training with it would be tough.
It would be nice to have a holo/rds & magnifier combo sight which swaps settings if the magnifier is moved in or out of alignment
I was not expecting Rimworld music on guntube. Nice.
ACOG: we learned to use the Bindon Aiming System, superimposing chevron over close distance w/both eyes open, sort of negating any extra 1x device. I'm biased obviously, but for tiering up by adding dedicated 1× makes the most sense on a 5.56 w fairly limited point target accuracy
worth noting BAC has some seriously bad divergence.
It could fall into the acog category, but i wish you would have included optics like the micro prisms ( 3x primary arms) i feel like they are similar to the acog but not the same as they are smaller, lighter and cost significantly less.
I personally would pick an acog.
Acog’s eye relief while run and gunning are much easier to achieve. Also acogs are good out to 400-500 IFyou have time to place a shot. 4x acogs are great
LPVO’s are good too though. They are better than acogs in prone static positions. However they aren’t as battle tested as acogs durability. I would choose a lpvo for a DMR type application. Because my experience with scope shadow and eye relief problems while not in the prone with lpvo’s. Acogs are top dog for now
Vortex 1-10 with holosun 507c x2 offset or Eotech Exps3 with G45 5x magnifier in the unity riser and unity magnifier mount system.
I think my best overall is LPVO because then it’s at least not in the way like a flip magnifier and in my area I’m going to want magnification for target ID at least some of the time. I won’t need much more than 4x realistically though.
The best optics setup is the one I use, everythign else sucks
Based
Holy shit, a gun youtuber that does research, instead of just show and tell.