Is NA Tekken doomed?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- 00:00 - Teaser
00:45 - Intro
02:04 - Speedkicks arrives on the scene (TTT2)
04:16 - Anakin’s tournament theory
05:46 - NA’s rule of two
07:56 - Preparing for Tekken 7 in the west
13:15 - Learning from the world
18:18 - Using older Tekkens to catch up (TTT1)
21:11 - Learning about the global competitive culture
22:58 - Pakistan splashes on on the scene
26:35 - Winning at all costs
29:13 - NA culture (Priorities needed to improve)
31:41 - What about Japan
34:33 - Tracking NA regional differences
42:21 - The anti-meta
46:09 - Is there a “best” style??
52:14 - Iron sharpens iron
57:21 - closing + recap
Catch me LIVE: / phidx
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Intro/Outro by SKONK - / @bigskonk
Intro/Outro track by KEIFERGR33N - / @keifergr33n
Editors:
Averyx: / @averyxfgc
Ceezd: / ceezd_
Jack Clishem: @jackclishem
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I'm PhiDX, I play Tekken professionally for @ParagonFGC and ArcadeShock. - เกม
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Phi, as someone who is completely new to the FGC in Tekken 8, this was so amazing to listen to. There's a lot of this type of background that many old heads take for granted, but for those of us who are new, it takes a lot of time and effort to learn. Please more interviews with veterans in the community!!! Speedkicks was awesome!
Most of the U.S. being car centric to the point that going to locals requires a really big time commitment, hurts the opportunities for people to improve at the same pace as other regions
Especially now how crazy the economy is now.. random but even a damn pack of gum or “quarter” bag of chips are all 50 cents now for even less product in them. Smh
Yeah sure. But in countries like Pakistan there is a lack of money. (So yeah sure no car problem. But you literally have a device availability problem and money problem because of that)
P.S. not mention. Good luck going to world tournaments from countries like Pakistan .(Even if you get a visa. You need money. And the money required will be enormous compared to developed countries)
@@b1slee267 These quarter bag of chips depress me.
Facts. My closest local is 1.5 - 2 hours away. Im an adult with a full-time job. Shit ain't happening.
@@Vespyr_ I swear! It just be shake and dust flavoring in them. Like what’s going to happen if no one buys this shi? Try to sale old products anyway or lose money by throwing them out ?
Man I remember playing tournaments in ttt1 and t4 back in like 2004 and there were like one or two guys in the region that were untouchable, always in the finals and they'd travel to tournaments with international competition and come back and we'd be like "What do you mean 64th?!?"
Also for those who are not familiar, it isn't literally about the quarters, for most arcade players it's about time. If you lose you go to the back of the line, you don't play again for 15-30 minutes until your turn comes back around, so you really don't want to lose cuz you just don't get to play any more after that even if you have money. That said $10 is 40 losses, so you don't really want to just go lose a bunch to learn like now you just go into ranked or quick match and lose 100 time on a row working on one skill, you always play only to win, and that then caps you at what works in your arcade to beat the guys around you, so there's entire skills and concepts you may never really develop despite being the "best" guy at your arcade. So it was just natural that these dudes in Korea fighting 200 guys who all travel for tournaments every day for 12 hours in their local arcades vs. NA arcades which had maybe 10-15 players and only a couple of them ever actually played the game outside of the city you are in. Online is changing all that. There's still cultural differences, NA people see content creation as the career for fighting games rather than actually winning tournaments itself, so we may never keep up with like Pakistanis who can actually make a living off just winning tournaments, but the gap will still close a lot in a generation or two.
@@alexonstott4954 I miss the arcade scene so much. And it truly does breed the best players. Pakistan's dominance owes a lot to the fact that they play locally.
@@alexonstott4954 Thanks for this -- I think you've pointed out a lot of fascinating observations about how geography shapes how players in different areas tend to develop, the challenges they face (or faced) due to the absence of things like a well-developed local scene, (relatively) unlimited time or money access to machines to lay on, and also things like NA players seemingly tending toward content creation as career vs. players in regions with lower cost of living finding it more valuable to do well in tournaments.
I've been thinking lately about how community knowledges for competitive games like fighting games, FPSs, MMOs, even stuff like TCGs developed since the 90s or so -- one's location still matters in terms of finding competition, community, etc., of course, and of course the Internet has blunted that a lot, right? But it's not just the Internet; players have fleshed out concepts like the neutral game, spread patterns, raid encounter mechanics, card advantage, tempo... and in doing so have not only forced game developers to surface a lot of info like frame data, attack ranges, design processes, but developers have also changed how they design these games, and player communities have similarly adjusted how they learn these games and how they present data about them.
The comparison that stands out to me is like, original Thottbot vs. today's Wowhead. Thottbot was useful but pretty basic, but pretty quickly Wowhead grew into this thing that scooped up all sorts of data, made tons of it available, but also had a community (not to mention all of the other communities of other websites, guild or server communities, etc.) who developed and provided all sorts of supplementary info about HOW to play WoW at a high level. And that pretty quickly ratcheted up the complexity of raids, dungeons, and even just random-ass other game systems in WoW. So when WoW Classic launched, it was never going to be the same because by that point WoW was just a way more understood game, and indeed player progression through its raids was much faster than the original, despite Blizzard trying to stick pretty closely to the original game.
Sorry for the long (and tangential) post, but what you said got me thinking more about this sort of thing. On one hand I'm sad that it's taken me this long to finally get into Tekken, but on the other hand like... I grew up in rural Texas. I simply did not have much access to the FGC(s) until better internet infrastructure was built here, until I met experienced players or players who knew *where to go* to learn, until apps like YT and Discord (not to discredit prior work on forums, IRC, etc.) made it so possible for players *without* much computer background to easily share their knowledge. So, me personally? I was never in a position to enjoy the competitive aspect of the game very much at all until very recently. It's exciting to think that so many more people are now able to play these games with less hurdles in the way of learning or enjoying them.
I'd never imagined that there would be "regional accents" for FG gameplay. This was a really great video, really fun and informative. 😊
It’s true what Speedkicks was saying about Mad Dog Jin, he used to come to LA w some regularity. There was a tourney here back in 2002/3, Electric Cancel I think? He and I were in grand finals for VF4. First set was Akira/Akira & I took it, but he switched to Kage and beat me from there to take it
I remember we all thought character change was strange for VF, no one really did that back then; but it was common for Tekken players.
He also placed top 8 for VF4 Evo at Evo 2003, where I got 3rd in my bracket & was just edged out of top 8. He was a cool guy, very friendly. The good old days
I edge myself too
@@MichaelMineCraftingsedging? I really saw this as more of a full unloading
I felt like I really creamed the comments section’s pie with this one
I can only speak when it comes to games like smash ultimate, but one thing is that NA is way to large. Regions like Japan or Korea, the transporation and the size of the country allows the best players to fight frequently at small and large tournaments. So since the average tournament will have several top ranked players, by default everyone will get better so the base level play goes up. So Japanese players are basically being pushed every weekend.
In America, the best players will go unchallenged for such long periods because the best players are spread out all over the place and only run into each other consistently at major tournaments and thats assuming they actually meet in bracket.
So when Japan collides with players from other regions, they are just more battle hardened than someone who is only playing in the state of Texas.
I guess my followup question would be whats stopping the US from having a bunch of many koreas? Like why is someone whos only played people from Texas facing lower competition than people facing others within their country. I know population density is way different, but even then in dense places like NY, Atl, the bay, etc. Why isntnjust playing people in the northeasest ewuivalent to playing people across japan. Not sure if this makes any sense?
@@bemtheman1100 he already answered your question, because the best players in america are more spread out. You even mentioned yourself the population density thing, a ton of America's land is rural countryside
😊q
@@M_CFVNYC's population density is 11k per square kilometer, higher than Tokyo's which is 6k, so that doesn't really check out as to why NYC isn't as strong a region as Tokyo. It's clear population density doesn't explain everything
@@waterguyroks transportation sucks so much in many states until more recently and offline scene wasn't fostered here as much especially with moba's, mmo's, and fps that tend to lean towards netplay due to team style gameplay and having better online for alot longer along with more mass appeal.
You can also throw in that same fact of the fighting game scene being much smaller and that online for em sucking not allowing them to be played online with as much variety. KI and skull girls in 2012-2013 were the first to have good online, SFV had rollback but it didn't have good rollback even though it released in 2016. Despite GGPO being released in like 2006 it was only on retro titles like sf3 and mvc2 which weren't new releases that had eyes on em.
Countries like ones in latin america loving snk games and dbz are perfect storms and more pure good luck.
This video was really really good. As a new player still grasping the fundamentals of Tekken, it’s cool to see how you all define the different styles and emphasize that there is no right or wrong style, just you two pointing out the different histories each scene developed. This is going to be useful when I’m eventually proficient enough that I can build my own style
great video also congrats for almost hitting 100k glad the full time TH-cam ist working out this well
3:29 man i didnt play the tag games, but it surprise me how good this looks in term of graphics.
Tag 2 looked better than 7 in a lot of ways
Tag 2 was a game ahead of its time
Love the long form talking content, I put them on in the background while I play other casual games or just clean around the house etc… so please do more 🎉
yo I'm loving the interview style content with your notes Phi, with both Speedkicks and some others you've had on here. It's really cool to get more insight into the Tekken communities of various regions and just hearing the history of things is awesome.
THIS WAS AMAZING. Would love a small (or ongoing) "podcast series" talking about this type of stuff.
Also covering things like, how you work on improving your decision making ( what to look out for), and even interviewing other international players if possible. Incredibly interesting and informative.
TLDR: GOOD SHIT MAKE MORE PLEASE 🙏
I loved this! Really enjoying the long theory convos w/ other players. Pretty much a podcast at this point lol
I do hope that you'll make some of these follow-up videos that were mentioned like talking to Anakin or others about their experiences and what the old scene was like, I really enjoyed listening to Speed talk about it!
This is a concept me and my friends talk about all the time. Love all of your videos
I didn't know what to expect with this video. The one hour video length felt intimidating. But when I started, I couldn't stop. This is amazing! Thanks for doing this :)
I forgot to add timestamps 😅
Bro thanks to some of ur videos i finally achieved Tekken King w my boy steve🙏🏾
I really like the longform stuff Phi! Thanks for the great content :)
love the style you do where you bullet the main points. really cool
I don't play much fighting games but the culture, the people, and history have always fascinated me. Keep up the great videos!
Awesome content as usual! It would be nice if you could have something like this with JDCR or CBM at some point. Justin Wong did a video with Tokido and it was amazing, I'm sure Korean tekken players would have a lot of stories to tell and both JDCR and CBM have good english.
wow this was one of the most interesting videos ive watch in a long time great stuff phi this was super cool.
I think what’s interesting is NA does have their games but it’s generally for 2D team games. For example the Marvel vs. Capcom series has always been dominated by US players even today where most top 8s will contain at least be 7 US players. EVO last year being Marvel’s last hurrah had 3 non US players within the top 8 and 2 got to be on stage for top 6. Even now Dragon Ball FighterZ has a fairly even mix of French and US players.
Its the case where barely any asian countries play it, but US (and also french for DBFZ). There is MK too where basically no asian country play it.
But game where most countries play like SF and tekken. US usually fall behind other regions. Tho cant say the same on SF as ppl like menard, punk, and nuckledu still usually compete with the best in asia. Menard not US i guess yea but still american region.
But yea in tekken its surely the case here.
Really glad you had this conversation! Had been having some thoughts on why NA underperforms in other FGs recently
Awesome video
I loved this
We need more former champs and player videos like this telling their story
Anakin Aris Maximilllion and more
I believe the line regarding Arslan Ash not being the best in Pakistan is a misquote. I think what he said was more like "if you think I am good, you should see who I train with"
He was trained by monsters literally
I'd be willing to bet that a good number of players would be better if they weren't getting crushed by their jobs everyday. Just speaking for myself, nearly everyone I know that plays fighting games wants to put in the time and grind up, but having the time/energy to do so regularly is basically a small miracle.
That's what I was about to say.. it's easy to be really good at a game when u have nothing to do in your life.. I work 12 hours a day and play for like 30 min a day going against mfs who play for 12+hours
I try to set aside a half hour or so just for practice and not 'playing'. Then, when I have actual free time the application in the lab and actually playing the game is more enjoyable.
Are you implying that only applies in North America?
If there's one region I associate with people having easy jobs with lots of free time outside of work, it is East Asia.
e: this is sarcasm, for the love of god stop sending me replies telling me that people in east asia work long hours. we all know that, that's the point
so like every other person, nice. Do you think every pro is a rich person? or that they can affort to travel oversee because "they have nothing to do"?
you guys are weird
I love this style of video, just a podcast style sitdown and talk with someone covering tekken topics
Would love to see more of this, especially if its not super structured / scripted.
Congratulations on 100K mark Phi 🏁🥂🤗
This was great. I love your longer form stuff.
This is so damn 🔥🔥🔥 as someone whos been extremely passionate about Tekken since Tekken 1, this is amazing to see.
Absolutely get with Anakin and Aris💯✊🏿
Keep the amazing work my guy
Huge inspiration as a content creator and with your consistency.
This is my favorite content of yours. Appreciate it greatly. There's a lot to learn in these types of videos.
appreciate this content, keep it up bro
24:25 I think this was also the time that Knee's Trophies in the Green Arcade got thrashed so people just assumed that Knee was depressed or something.
really cool video thanks phidx
I LOVE these type of videos!
I love to hear the Tekken community lore. This was a fun listen. Keep it coming bro!
Edited: what is a "gamestate" player?
great video, i'd love to see Gerald on here for sure
What a cool video, I'd love more like this!
NA Tekken is pretty good, so many good players who can upset the best at any point.
Always good to see some history of content
TTT2 Heihachi was so sick. I didn't get the game until after Revolution and it was in part because I didn't want to have to use tokens to play, but also because Heihachi's db+2 was so satisfying to land. But also, look at the guy. What a bad ass. The costume is awesome and the black hair was all the hype when the game was announced.
Thanks for the informative content, its always appreciated!
Love the long-form content!
Love this, thanks for the great content
Great convo
This video was AWESOME!! Please do more of this style of content 😃
Amazing video man
This was really interesting! Super sick!
Honestly I want more speed and phi content like this its like I'm just vibing with the boys
that was actually such a good talk, hats off
Thanks for the conversation
This was so interesting to listen to. Thank you for sharing this
Hey Phidx, was wondering if you ever use neutral guard at all?
Cool stuff, even for a Europe 2 player. You should definitively do one with Anakin! And other regions would be so cool as well. I guess Europe is a bit similar to NA since we are so scattered in different countries with different languages.
love your content phidx!
This was an amazing watch. Speed is inspirational
PhiDX I don’t know if you could ever book an interview with Aris, but that would be amazing. He has great knowledge of the game and history.
love the vids man you been helping me improve at tekken a lot quicker
This was a really good video
I stopped playing after Tekken 4 (the nadir of the series IMO). I played in Europe for the first or 2nd European wide tournament in London 2001. I remember back then Ryan Hart was the best there and the italians came and dominated that time. The players like Nin, Qudans were coming up and Jang Ik-Su was the top player in Korea. It's very interesting to see how it's all evolved since then. Tekken Tag was the peak of the series before Tekken 7 IMO.
As someone who just started being competitive in T8 (after playing bots TT2, T6,T7) this was really great to watch.
Needed this video, before tekken 8 my only experience with tekken was playing it whenever I'd go to the arcade back in 09-2010 when i was like 7 yearsold so I had 0 tekken kowledge
Thanks for making this
compelling topic. i HAD to click and listen :)
This is by far my favourite form of tekken content. 🙌
Man I wish I took tekken more serious back then to consider to go to local tournaments and be able to meet and grow with some these amazing players.
I've been playing since Tekken 1 and the new generation makes me feel really old we were lucky if we had VHS recordings of Korean players that have been passed down between hundreds of people back in the day of Tekken 3 and Tekken tag. We had a decent group here in Austin but only a couple top tier players that never went on to doing anything great. I tried to stick with Tekken in 4 and 5 but that was around the same time they started closing down all the arcades so our players scattered and that was pretty much it. Really thankful for social media nowadays especially since I've started playing Tekken 8 I definitely don't like a lot of the systems but it is fun to play.
Some more context about the Korean videos from back then
in tekken 6 there was this guy on youtube uploading a lot of esports stuff. I think his handle was Jon747 or something. He mainly uploaded GSL Starcraft 2 content, but when Tekken Crash came around he also uploaded all those videos. You'd recognize many of the names of the participants, but one that stands out is Saint who I think had his breakout performance when his team eliminated Knee's in the qualifiers. It was pretty funny because Knee's face was on all the promos and the opening TV sequence and he wasn't even there, similar to NBA playoff ads with Lebron and KD even tho they got knocked out in the first round. Those were like the only korean tournaments and the only footage of those tournaments
Then there was taktak1983 (who i think got his name from a korean rapper) who had all the green arcade uploads, as well as guys who reuploaded vids from Niconicodouga (the old JP youtube) and even someone uploading from his arcade in Hong Kong. Unfortunately those channels kinda died when a guy from the Middle East named JinAndKazama started reuploading all the footage on his own channel. He lasted til like the first couple of weeks of T6 console release, when he started reuploading people's combo videos and finally got copyright struck into oblivion. Think of a bigdaddyjende who stole from everyone. I'm not sure that taktak would have come back from hiatus if he didnt get stricken, you can't even find those old t6 videos anymore. i think the 1893 channel is actually his 'new' channel
Super interesting video
This was so good to listen to in the gym :D
I love this history lessons, I like to imagine what it was before I even know the competitive scene existed
Doing good work dude
Just commenting for the algorithm, keep it up
grew up playing tekken but this is my first competitive tekken and man it’s fun as hell
Love you phi 😊
Interaction with the Video:
In other games people ( outside the US) say "NA LUL".
But in Tekken they say "Land of the free".
I don't know about other games but coming from dota it's definitely 'NA LUL' yes😂but have never gotten as much of that impression from my time watching tekken
in every game ive played na has been always been a tragic region, its hilarious
NA has always been lul
They just fail at copying asian tactics
Amen, brother. Raise hell, praise dale.
@@sliippy2152 That's why I think it's weird that melee players in NA are superior..
I enjoy the long form content :)
professor phi with another banger
W vid. Not even in 3 mins and its a banger
Dam I'm old 😂 I've been playing Tekken since Tekken 1 in Arcades! OMG I remember when Tekken Zaibatsu was a forum 😂 I was in Iraq on my 1st tour.... this is a good video
Excellent video as always phi
youve been promoted to 1st monitor privileges, great videos!
My guy about to hit 100k
I wonder if Kane is playing T8? He's one of my favorite players and it would be cool to see his T8 Lili or maybe even Reina since he also is a Mishima main. Just mentioning him since you had his match against Kayyal playing in the background
I knew it was true because apparently there a was a tournament in Atlanta near my brother. Unfortunately he couldn’t enter but his friend did and he doesn’t play it much and he won the whole tournament
Love the video. Good stuff. Its hard to say. I would say NA Tekken is pretty on par with EU Tekken in terms of skill. Its just a matter of whether or not Western Tekken can overcome Eastern Tekken.
"They don't know what not to think about"
"....You know, that lever is slightly less tense than that other lever"
Fuck I felt that in my bones
🔥
great vids
One day you've gotta write a scene history book.
I lovedddd this video format. Hearing about the history of the fgc really is lighting a fire to learn and grind. Still super new but look forward to when im ready for my first local
Tekken tag 2 still had some of the best game play imo hopefully the next Tekken is Tekken tag 3
I just ordered a k lever I’m excited to install it !!
You and speedkicks need a podcast man
Speed talking about NY... His "Yo, why would you do that hopkick?" Quote sounds just like FightingGM when I see his clips on YT 🤣
Also these types of videos are fantastic!
Man, just seeing tag, makes me excitedthinking one day tag will come back.
Not only u help me in tekken 8, u also help me in English speaking a lot. ❤❤❤❤
100K OTW BAYBEEE
I truly love the sweat lord convos