I was blessed. Got my private and instrument back in '07-'08 which was done in house on a 141. at the time, DPEs weren't an issue though, so you'd schedule one few weeks out. For my commercial in '24, I had a personal contact who's dad was a DPE and I got it scheduled in a couple weeks. for my seaplane, they did it with an in house DPE so I didn't do any scheduling. for my multi, the school has DPEs they work with, so when I went there, I already had my checkride schedule 5 days after I started. I was able to get 3 checkrides in about 2 months time. I know other guys are seriously struggling these days willing to go wherever to have a checkride. I'm just happy I will never have to hunt down for a DPE again lol.
Good video. Your comment at 6:27 about CFIs maybe scheduling check-rides ahead of time doesn't always work. The last two DPEs I flew with would not schedule me unless my CFI had signed off on completing all of my training requirements, first. I reached out and was told "no" each time. Their fear was accepting an appointment with a student, that student not being ready on the test date, rescheduling on short-notice, and then wasting that time-slot that might have been scheduled for someone else who was ready to go.
I'm in Oregon - called to schedule CFI initial (so less options for DPEs) over 3 months out. Full disclosure I went with a recommended DPE and didn't "shop around". I agree with the advice schedule a bit prematurely.
Forget the west. I had to travel from Boise to the Midwest to get a checkride. The examiners are less than part time and most do not even have updated contact info. The FAA needs to mandate these DPE’s use it or lose it. And don’t get me started on the examiners charging upwards of $1600 for a PPL ride. Shameful.
As an almost CFI I think about this and its going to be pretty tough to service a customer/student with this shortage. It's certainly going to thin the herd even more when you couple this with the hiring slow down (making ratings more competitive) and the 1500. Additionally, CFI pay. As a career changer I didn't realize how many more part time gigs I need just to make it work.
Yes I agree. The first few years working in aviation are challenging and a lot of people don’t realize that when they get into it. I think the key to being happy in aviation is a genuine love for flying but there are definitely some challenges to this career
My school is currently stuck in the situation you mentioned (part 61). The only DPE available charges $2000 for CFI initial and over all has only passed 30% of our applicants anywhere from PPL to CFII
It’s insane what I’m hearing about wait times, our airport in Kansas had students coming in from Oklahoma for an all day Checkride for multiple students it was a virtual assembly line of Checkrides that weekend!!
I'm waiting for cfi checkride for 2 month...😢 and i had no idea why dpe's are in shortage until i saw this video. Thank you for the info. Realllly appreciated👍🏻
Thank you for posting a video about this. It really does put us instructors in a tough spot. We either book the checkride 3+ months in advance and hope the student is ready by then, OR wait to schedule 'til the student is checkride ready and have the student spend more money just to stay proficient. I've heard that some DPEs in my area won't even book a checkride unless the student and RI have submitted the 8710 on IACRA. I'm fortunate to have understanding students, but it seems it's stressful for everyone involved.
I’m blessed my school sits on FSDO (KLNK) and has one DPE that just loves doing check rides for us. Some places I know just 60nms over (KOMA and KCBF) can’t get enough checkrides. I still had a month ish delay on my original commercial check ride because of 3 cancellations.
For my instrument and commercial checkrides, I scheduled my checkride then back ended my training around that date. And of course I had issues for both checkrides, including a presidential tfr that showed up 2 days before my checkride. Fortunately my dpe was pretty flexible and was able to reschedule quickly.
Is the new DPE “Aaron”? We were just in Nampa chatting with a super helpful couple who own Skyline. My daughter will need a check ride this summer for her PPL and we’re stressing!! Thanks for always having such great info!
I just had my first solo at about 25-30 hours for my PPL. We're thinking about scheduling my check ride in the next week or two then just slamming out the remaining ground school/night flights/XC out as quick as possible. It's a little nerve wracking to put a "must-be-ready-by" date but certainly beats sitting on my hands after finishing training.
It’s a very challenging decision I agree! I’m not sure what the right answer is but I think it’s worth a call to the DPE and at least see how far out they are
@pilotkaity I wonder how much the availability of flight loans contributed to the student surplus and whether that will create a future loss of younger pilots. Supposing things are cyclical, low pilot jobs will lead to low loan repayment, which will lead to low lending availability for the next generation of pilots. Loans matter for most people, since training is so expensive these days, I can only imagine what it will be in the future.
I'm amazed the pilot shortage isn't even worse than it is when we treat young pilots like this. Not only do they have to burn an exorbitant amount of money getting the required hours but they also have to stay proficient for months waiting for a check ride and if you don't succeed the first time its going to be a few more months before you can try again? Talk about an unhealthy amount of stress/pressure. I don't care if the risk of an accident is 1 in 3 million instead of 1 in 10 million I'd rather see more pilots, slightly lower airfares and have it be alittle easier to schedule flights. I thought about becoming a pilot but 1) my vision isn't quite perfect although its good enough I've never had a problem in the simulator 2) I just didn't want to take on so much debt.
The debt is a big issue. You actually done need perfect vision to be a pilot anymore but the debt thing is a really problem. I try to put out information on how I did my training debt free for that reason
I guess I was lucky getting a DPE in SoCal recently for my multi-engine but I’m now being told to wait a month for a helicopter DPE! I just spoke to another CFI near LA and he says there’s DPE’s now charging $1800 a check ride on fixed wing.
@@pilotkaity Yeah, unfortunately. I was trying to get it done before the PTS switched over to the ACS. That definitely won’t happen now. This is going to be especially frustrating as a new CFI, hope they do something to fix it.
Few comments. I own a flight school in Jacksonville FL and have been a full time flight instructor for nearly 20 years. I don’t think there is a shortage of DPEs but rather a glut of pilots. Big box flight schools are pumping out more commercial pilots and CFIs than there are jobs to fill right now (I believe you even alluded to this in a previous video). I get dozens of resumes a month from CFIs looking for work - more now than I ever have in my career. As much as I’d love to assume it’s just because so many CFIs want to work for my company, I’m wiser than that. Why aren’t they able to find jobs at the schools that trained them? Were they promised a job or just naively expecting one would be handed to them? So there are just a ton of people training right now… and many of them should not be pilots IMHO. Second, toward the end of your video you suggested that CFIs schedule check rides at the beginning of training. BAD IDEA. This is almost always a train wreck for everyone involved - the student, the instructor and the DPE. The DPE we work with most often here won’t put an applicant on his schedule until the training has been completed and IACRA has been submitted. I completely respect this because punting usually backfires. Students will put off requirements and slack on studying until the 11th hour and try to cram it all in the week before the check ride, like it’s a chemistry final or something, and then of course weather happens, or a 100-hour comes due, etc. Our advice to students is to look at their flying as a journey, as a lifestyle, not a means to an end. Unfortunately many do the latter, because they are chasing a job not seeking proficiency. Let’s say you’re a 50-hour student pilot who has met the requirements for the private pilot certificate on May 1 but you can’t get a check ride appointment until July 1. So what? Keep flying, start working on your instrument rating, building cross country time, etc. What’s the big deal? Similarly, if you’re an instrument rated pilot with say 100 hours, well you have 150 more to earn before you’re eligible for your commercial and CFI, so work on both simultaneously so that by the time you’ve logged 250 hours you’re ready for both check rides. Another 2 month wait for those check rides? Start working on your multi or building more PIC cross country time. I think people are not looking far enough down range, and are not seeing the forest for the trees so to speak.
This is great thanks for sharing. I agree with you about the influx of new pilots. I think the pilot shortage has been over advertised and now we have a ton of new commercial pilots. Great comment thanks for sharing this.
If an applicant calls a DPE for a date and they say I’ll test you tomorrow if the applicant cannot say yes, then you called too early. I believe the DPE is also trying to “maximize” their time in an uncertain environment also adding to this situation. A lot of of 141 schools are also not getting examining authority and thus relying on DPEs instead. There is no money in the school for doing a checkride.
I think this is a pretty accurate take on what is going on, thanks for posting. I have heard of Examiners charging a deposit against the high possibility of cancellations. I respect that, their time is increasingly valuable in this environment. I think the "DPE shortage" is also a bit FSDO dependent, as I recently had a conversation with a new CFI in my area (southeast) that was able to schedule a Initial CFI ride with a new examiner within a week of the first scheduling discussion. Maybe that was totally circumstantial, but I think it shows that there are possibilities if you look hard enough and are willing to travel. Of course, travel puts additional strain and expense on the applicant. Also, there has been a fair amount of media discussion about applicants being turned away from scheduled check rides because they arrive to the examiner unprepared. I have seen numbers as high as 20% on a national basis. This issue rests solely on the Flight Instructors that are recommending candidates for check rides. We could experience an immediate improvement in examiner utilization if more candidate showed up for the check ride prepared.
@@andybalogh5333 this is a great comment thanks for adding this. I totally agree it’s the deposit thing for the DPEs. I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all
Is there anything on the final version of the 5 year FAA reauthorization bill that addresses any of these issues? If not, this video should be sent to your local members of Congress before they vote
My DPE had an upgrade class he had to do so I'm back to square 1 for 2 months, our check ride was cancelled due to marginal VFR. Gonna try to hit up some more DPEs but yeah, it's rough and a massive obstacle that doesn't need to be there. Does the FAA really not believe in the upcoming pilot shortage with boomers retiring? You simply gave yourselves a 2 year bandaid
the DPE I used charged me $1,000 and then decided that he don't want to finish the test and just walked away with the money.nobody really care FAA don't want to know about it
“Not many people want to work for the FAA” but “there are tons of pilots out there applying in the management system?” Which is it? Honestly, it sounds more like there are just a lot of minimally qualified instructors who built hours flying and not working on their reputation, and the standards are by design high.
People don’t want to work as safety inspectors for the faa. There are lots of qualified people applying for DPE positions. Those are 2 different things. The people applying for DPE position are not “minimally qualified instructors”. I’m not sure where you got that idea from
@@pilotkaity don’t think so. It’s looking like he will have to fly from San Marcos up to Austin Executive where the guys located, just to get it done. Maybe it’s like you said, the FAA doesn’t pay enough. I know the flight school in Georgetown was paying a guy from Houston just come over to Austin. Maybe it’s the central Texas region that’s understaffed
Yea and the DPE are ripping pilots big time... Demanding only cash so not to declare it as income...were talking $1,500.00 and $2,000.00 per check ride...
You know the FAA can give checkrides for free, and lots of us would do it, and save time and money, but like most Gov places, they wont do anything. We've asked many times. Seems like a good ol boys club, as check rides are like $800-1200, so they wont interfere.
As noted in the video, the FSDO is short on inspectors. So the FSDO has the ASI monitoring 121 & 135 operations, 141 & 61 schools, accident investigations / incidents and watching over DPEs. Thus they doesn't have time to give checkrides.
![🎤 ไปกันต่อออ! จับฉลากร้องเพลง x P’ #XXSIVK [EP.2] (1/2) เพลงของใครจึ้งสุดน้าา 💓🎤 #MXFRUIT](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mLI_K0sAS4o/mqdefault.jpg)
I was blessed. Got my private and instrument back in '07-'08 which was done in house on a 141. at the time, DPEs weren't an issue though, so you'd schedule one few weeks out. For my commercial in '24, I had a personal contact who's dad was a DPE and I got it scheduled in a couple weeks. for my seaplane, they did it with an in house DPE so I didn't do any scheduling. for my multi, the school has DPEs they work with, so when I went there, I already had my checkride schedule 5 days after I started. I was able to get 3 checkrides in about 2 months time. I know other guys are seriously struggling these days willing to go wherever to have a checkride. I'm just happy I will never have to hunt down for a DPE again lol.
I think that you did it right. It was a different market back then, but I think that anyone in a similar place should think about it.
That’s awesome I’m glad to hear it
Good video. Your comment at 6:27 about CFIs maybe scheduling check-rides ahead of time doesn't always work. The last two DPEs I flew with would not schedule me unless my CFI had signed off on completing all of my training requirements, first. I reached out and was told "no" each time. Their fear was accepting an appointment with a student, that student not being ready on the test date, rescheduling on short-notice, and then wasting that time-slot that might have been scheduled for someone else who was ready to go.
I’ve heard that from some of them as well. If understandable but also put the student in a tough spot
I'm in Oregon - called to schedule CFI initial (so less options for DPEs) over 3 months out. Full disclosure I went with a recommended DPE and didn't "shop around". I agree with the advice schedule a bit prematurely.
Ugh 3 months
Forget the west. I had to travel from Boise to the Midwest to get a checkride. The examiners are less than part time and most do not even have updated contact info. The FAA needs to mandate these DPE’s use it or lose it. And don’t get me started on the examiners charging upwards of $1600 for a PPL ride. Shameful.
$1600 is insane
As an almost CFI I think about this and its going to be pretty tough to service a customer/student with this shortage. It's certainly going to thin the herd even more when you couple this with the hiring slow down (making ratings more competitive) and the 1500. Additionally, CFI pay. As a career changer I didn't realize how many more part time gigs I need just to make it work.
Yes I agree. The first few years working in aviation are challenging and a lot of people don’t realize that when they get into it. I think the key to being happy in aviation is a genuine love for flying but there are definitely some challenges to this career
4:02 $600-1000 would be a blessing. $1500-$1600 is the going rate for PPL here in San Diego
Wow that’s insane
My school is currently stuck in the situation you mentioned (part 61). The only DPE available charges $2000 for CFI initial and over all has only passed 30% of our applicants anywhere from PPL to CFII
Wowwww that’s horrible!!
It’s insane what I’m hearing about wait times, our airport in Kansas had students coming in from Oklahoma for an all day Checkride for multiple students it was a virtual assembly line of Checkrides that weekend!!
Wow!!
Funny because I’m a Kansas pilot who had to fly down to Oklahoma for a checkride
@@matthewbrock9073
This was at KAAO/Jabara
I like how you disect different aviation topics and addresses it by layers.🤜🤛
Thanks! Glad you like it!
I'm waiting for cfi checkride for 2 month...😢 and i had no idea why dpe's are in shortage until i saw this video. Thank you for the info.
Realllly appreciated👍🏻
Best of luck!
Thank you for posting a video about this. It really does put us instructors in a tough spot. We either book the checkride 3+ months in advance and hope the student is ready by then, OR wait to schedule 'til the student is checkride ready and have the student spend more money just to stay proficient. I've heard that some DPEs in my area won't even book a checkride unless the student and RI have submitted the 8710 on IACRA. I'm fortunate to have understanding students, but it seems it's stressful for everyone involved.
That’s what I’ve seen as well and it’s really just bad for the students overall
I’m blessed my school sits on FSDO (KLNK) and has one DPE that just loves doing check rides for us. Some places I know just 60nms over (KOMA and KCBF) can’t get enough checkrides. I still had a month ish delay on my original commercial check ride because of 3 cancellations.
Even a month is a long time when you’re ready to check honestly! That’s great you have a good option there
@@pilotkaity Yeah Weather and the shortage pushed a lot people back around my same time. It is what it is.
For my instrument and commercial checkrides, I scheduled my checkride then back ended my training around that date.
And of course I had issues for both checkrides, including a presidential tfr that showed up 2 days before my checkride.
Fortunately my dpe was pretty flexible and was able to reschedule quickly.
That’s awesome!
Is the new DPE “Aaron”? We were just in Nampa chatting with a super helpful couple who own Skyline. My daughter will need a check ride this summer for her PPL and we’re stressing!! Thanks for always having such great info!
Yep! Aaron is awesome I highly recommend him!
CFI checkrides are like 4-5 months out all around the southeast right now >.
It’s insane
Yeah, same!
I need to become a DPE!
You and me both my friend
When she means 2-4 months. It's real. I got signed off near Halloween and didn't take my check ride until middle of March.
Wow what rating was that for?
@@pilotkaity It was for commercial.
I just had my first solo at about 25-30 hours for my PPL. We're thinking about scheduling my check ride in the next week or two then just slamming out the remaining ground school/night flights/XC out as quick as possible. It's a little nerve wracking to put a "must-be-ready-by" date but certainly beats sitting on my hands after finishing training.
It’s a very challenging decision I agree! I’m not sure what the right answer is but I think it’s worth a call to the DPE and at least see how far out they are
@pilotkaity I wonder how much the availability of flight loans contributed to the student surplus and whether that will create a future loss of younger pilots. Supposing things are cyclical, low pilot jobs will lead to low loan repayment, which will lead to low lending availability for the next generation of pilots. Loans matter for most people, since training is so expensive these days, I can only imagine what it will be in the future.
This is a great thought I definitely think there will be some effect in the future
I'm amazed the pilot shortage isn't even worse than it is when we treat young pilots like this. Not only do they have to burn an exorbitant amount of money getting the required hours but they also have to stay proficient for months waiting for a check ride and if you don't succeed the first time its going to be a few more months before you can try again? Talk about an unhealthy amount of stress/pressure. I don't care if the risk of an accident is 1 in 3 million instead of 1 in 10 million I'd rather see more pilots, slightly lower airfares and have it be alittle easier to schedule flights. I thought about becoming a pilot but 1) my vision isn't quite perfect although its good enough I've never had a problem in the simulator 2) I just didn't want to take on so much debt.
The debt is a big issue. You actually done need perfect vision to be a pilot anymore but the debt thing is a really problem. I try to put out information on how I did my training debt free for that reason
Between CFI and CFII it took 8 months total for both. I almost lost my CJO at a regional because of it!
Wow that’s rough! So glad you did lose the cjo
I guess I was lucky getting a DPE in SoCal recently for my multi-engine but I’m now being told to wait a month for a helicopter DPE!
I just spoke to another CFI near LA and he says there’s DPE’s now charging $1800 a check ride on fixed wing.
Honestly a month is a really great right now 😫
$1800 is insane to me
Sounds like a good business move once you get in
It really does
Awesome 😎😎😎😎😎
Thank you!
The issue with some DPEs, they will not schedule until everything is signed off and an application is in the system :(.
I’ve seen that as well. Then you really have nothing to do but wait which sucks
Thanks for the explanation.
You're welcome!
That’s so weird I got an appointment within 2 weeks in Florida this year.
Wow! What part of FL?
@@pilotkaity Tampa
@@Andyisbeep wow
Yeah, at some point I’ll get my CFI done, lol!
I believe in you lol
@@pilotkaity Yeah, unfortunately. I was trying to get it done before the PTS switched over to the ACS. That definitely won’t happen now. This is going to be especially frustrating as a new CFI, hope they do something to fix it.
“DON’T MOVE TO BOISE, ID” 😂
All of Texas can relate.
😂😂😂
That's crazy !! So does the FAA have a lengthy wait ??
You mean if you try to get a checkride with the FSDO?
@@pilotkaity yes maam
Few comments. I own a flight school in Jacksonville FL and have been a full time flight instructor for nearly 20 years. I don’t think there is a shortage of DPEs but rather a glut of pilots. Big box flight schools are pumping out more commercial pilots and CFIs than there are jobs to fill right now (I believe you even alluded to this in a previous video). I get dozens of resumes a month from CFIs looking for work - more now than I ever have in my career. As much as I’d love to assume it’s just because so many CFIs want to work for my company, I’m wiser than that. Why aren’t they able to find jobs at the schools that trained them? Were they promised a job or just naively expecting one would be handed to them? So there are just a ton of people training right now… and many of them should not be pilots IMHO. Second, toward the end of your video you suggested that CFIs schedule check rides at the beginning of training. BAD IDEA. This is almost always a train wreck for everyone involved - the student, the instructor and the DPE. The DPE we work with most often here won’t put an applicant on his schedule until the training has been completed and IACRA has been submitted. I completely respect this because punting usually backfires. Students will put off requirements and slack on studying until the 11th hour and try to cram it all in the week before the check ride, like it’s a chemistry final or something, and then of course weather happens, or a 100-hour comes due, etc. Our advice to students is to look at their flying as a journey, as a lifestyle, not a means to an end. Unfortunately many do the latter, because they are chasing a job not seeking proficiency. Let’s say you’re a 50-hour student pilot who has met the requirements for the private pilot certificate on May 1 but you can’t get a check ride appointment until July 1. So what? Keep flying, start working on your instrument rating, building cross country time, etc. What’s the big deal? Similarly, if you’re an instrument rated pilot with say 100 hours, well you have 150 more to earn before you’re eligible for your commercial and CFI, so work on both simultaneously so that by the time you’ve logged 250 hours you’re ready for both check rides. Another 2 month wait for those check rides? Start working on your multi or building more PIC cross country time. I think people are not looking far enough down range, and are not seeing the forest for the trees so to speak.
This is great thanks for sharing. I agree with you about the influx of new pilots. I think the pilot shortage has been over advertised and now we have a ton of new commercial pilots. Great comment thanks for sharing this.
If an applicant calls a DPE for a date and they say I’ll test you tomorrow if the applicant cannot say yes, then you called too early. I believe the DPE is also trying to “maximize” their time in an uncertain environment also adding to this situation. A lot of of 141 schools are also not getting examining authority and thus relying on DPEs instead. There is no money in the school for doing a checkride.
I think this is a pretty accurate take on what is going on, thanks for posting. I have heard of Examiners charging a deposit against the high possibility of cancellations. I respect that, their time is increasingly valuable in this environment. I think the "DPE shortage" is also a bit FSDO dependent, as I recently had a conversation with a new CFI in my area (southeast) that was able to schedule a Initial CFI ride with a new examiner within a week of the first scheduling discussion. Maybe that was totally circumstantial, but I think it shows that there are possibilities if you look hard enough and are willing to travel. Of course, travel puts additional strain and expense on the applicant. Also, there has been a fair amount of media discussion about applicants being turned away from scheduled check rides because they arrive to the examiner unprepared. I have seen numbers as high as 20% on a national basis. This issue rests solely on the Flight Instructors that are recommending candidates for check rides. We could experience an immediate improvement in examiner utilization if more candidate showed up for the check ride prepared.
@@andybalogh5333 this is a great comment thanks for adding this. I totally agree it’s the deposit thing for the DPEs. I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all
QUESTION: What city/state has the most DPEs?
Is there a school that has DPEs on staff or an owner?
I have no idea what city or school but some flight schools do have in house dpes
Is there anything on the final version of the 5 year FAA reauthorization bill that addresses any of these issues? If not, this video should be sent to your local members of Congress before they vote
I do have an update I’m putting out of the FAA reauthorization bill. But I agree. Many legislators don’t know about this issue.
My DPE had an upgrade class he had to do so I'm back to square 1 for 2 months, our check ride was cancelled due to marginal VFR. Gonna try to hit up some more DPEs but yeah, it's rough and a massive obstacle that doesn't need to be there.
Does the FAA really not believe in the upcoming pilot shortage with boomers retiring? You simply gave yourselves a 2 year bandaid
Ugh I’m sorry
even for the checkrides for someone who is trying to just get their PPL?
Yes
the DPE I used charged me $1,000 and then decided that he don't want to finish the test and just walked away with the money.nobody really care FAA don't want to know about it
What!! What’s his name
“Not many people want to work for the FAA” but “there are tons of pilots out there applying in the management system?” Which is it? Honestly, it sounds more like there are just a lot of minimally qualified instructors who built hours flying and not working on their reputation, and the standards are by design high.
People don’t want to work as safety inspectors for the faa. There are lots of qualified people applying for DPE positions. Those are 2 different things. The people applying for DPE position are not “minimally qualified instructors”. I’m not sure where you got that idea from
Maybe part 141 is the way to go?
This is a benefit of 141 I would say
It’s just ridiculous how bad things are
It’s insane
@@pilotkaity my son has waited several months in Austin to get his commercial checkride
@@Riverplacedad1 wow does he have it scheduled yet?
@@pilotkaity don’t think so. It’s looking like he will have to fly from San Marcos up to Austin Executive where the guys located, just to get it done. Maybe it’s like you said, the FAA doesn’t pay enough. I know the flight school in Georgetown was paying a guy from Houston just come over to Austin. Maybe it’s the central Texas region that’s understaffed
@@Riverplacedad1 wow hopefully they get the checkride done without issues
Yea and the DPE are ripping pilots big time...
Demanding only cash so not to declare it as income...were talking $1,500.00 and $2,000.00 per check ride...
That’s insane
You know the FAA can give checkrides for free, and lots of us would do it, and save time and money, but like most Gov places, they wont do anything. We've asked many times.
Seems like a good ol boys club, as check rides are like $800-1200, so they wont interfere.
I have seen this as well. People have asked and the FSDO is reluctant to do Checkrides
As noted in the video, the FSDO is short on inspectors. So the FSDO has the ASI monitoring 121 & 135 operations, 141 & 61 schools, accident investigations / incidents and watching over DPEs. Thus they doesn't have time to give checkrides.
@@ericleuty6270 At every FSDO in the nation, not 1 can do a checkride?
this sounds like a failed system, why would anyone want to be a DPE?
It’s usually a retirement gig
2-4 months?? lol try 6+ months
Omg