"Everyone knew it was impossible, until a fool who didn't know came along and did it." Albert Einstein That's exactly what was in my case cause I didn't realize it is so difficult to copper plate aluminium. I was able to achieve thick layers that held the tape test and was possible to solder wires to it. But the funniest thing is that for experimenting I used only very simple ingredients like demineralized water, baking soda, washing soda, citric acid, car battery charger and some copper wires. I think I need to get back to this experiment but where to find time for that :( and the clue at the end for those who would like to try it, don't dip and live your aluminium on first layers, you have to dip it quickly many times and a very thin quite durable coat will start to form. Thank You for great inspiring video's 👍
He was one of those motivated people with dyslexia. A inspiration for morons such as myself and others, lol. You appear smarter than a dedicated moron though. Most affordable method you came up with. I can try that with a trip to the local grocery store. Shopping list copied. Thankyou as well.
@@truetech4158 i just quickly tested it as I stored the solutions. They still good after many months. Need to add some few things to save You some time. Washing soda was used to do electrolysis on copper wires and with syringe I gathered dissolved copper (oxides?). Then I made solution using demineralized water + copper + citric acid and using copper anode. The other important thing is that I use 12v 6a battery charger and did try on a lab supply but results was not that good. However to limit the current on the charger You have to use different gauges of wire and dip them more or less in a solution. If it's getting dark brown or black current is to high or it's to long in solution. Means dip faster or put less anode in. I recommend to use some gloves , glasses, and do it in well ventilated area. Hope it would work for You too. Good luck
@@maciekm7953 Thanks again brother from a probably taller mother. Oh, while reading what you wrote about creating copper oxides, figured sharing a idea being still in concept stage, as it just dawned on me that one could very easily go the illegal route, by effective means of much defacing some monarchs off the affordable coins as i dislike money really anyways (providing such events doesn't result in being sent to the guillotine) by holding those, or even those copper wires mentioned though not the wires used for electrodes, against a belt sander with pliers or slotting a piece of random 2x4 lumber with a many a penny approach held in place into the slots and let the copper oxide dust fly into a catching bin or something, maybe even with a Dremel or file or even a bit of sandpaper would seem to work in that department if going all out mcgyver mode in the middle of nowhere if stranded on a deserted island due to high taxes, lol. Also useful for if needing any other metals turned into a powder form.
@@truetech4158 I don't know where you are, but for at least a decade, 'Copper' coins in Britain and the USA have been made from Copper plated Iron. Yes, they stick to magnets, if you want a quick way to find the few remaining genuine 'Coppers'. Britain is also minting 'Silver' coins (they've not used Silver since 1947) using Nickel-on-Copper plated Iron.
You can copper plate aluminum foil by: degrease, make a medium-dark solution of copper sulfate, rub the solution on the foil with a clean rubber eraser. Dip & rub, repeat. in about 2 minutes the copper appears on the foil. I have used this for soldering wires to the foil. Probably not practical for large areas.
Wow that’s neat! I have some lights I want to coat in copper, but they’re aluminum I think I’ll try this method and see what happens. I was actually thinking of making sodium hydroxide solution and try copper plating it directly in that maybe something will happen then.
Hiya Rob ,brilliant as usual you make the impossible possible indeed ! (you're a scientist who's thinking outside the box ) thanks for sharing great idea! great video ! and great explanation ! cheers mate.
Aluminum is one Weird Metal and it's potential is far from filled.Fusing it with copper and seeing what diamagnetic properties it may have near strong magnetic fields created by Neodymium magnets should be interesting.
A plant based battery does sound interesting, reminded of those lemon type versions. Guess it's abilities may vary in power according to the type of plant. hmm..
Hey Rob... Thanks again for being so generous in sharing all your ideas and hard work. Would a copper plated aluminum current collector be significantly more effective? or would the copper material be too thin resulting in early failure. Cheers Mate...
Robert, do you think there is any merit in considering this technique to 'electro-dope' some of your micro porous carbons to further increase the conductivity of your inks? Secondly, does this technique also imply that the electroplating solution would be the 'almost' perfect battery electrolyte?
Hey Robert. I get why this video would be interesting, though I have an interest in plating other metals with aluninum/aluminium bronze. Would love to have your input on this one. Whether by comment or video. Is this possible. Of course the answer is yes. After all we can make gold now. Of course the expense far outways the value, but the point is it's doable...
Have you noticed if this passivation method makes the aluminum foil any more or less hydrophobic? My home built spin coater and doctor blading for GO are leaving a less homogeneous coating than I'd like. I had already been looking into hydrophilic coatings, but here you go again making a great video right in-line:)
Hi Rob, this is really interesting, thank you. As a retired Electrical Power Engineer I am acutely of the problems of transitioning from Al to Cu...basically if you can exclude the electrolyte, there's no problem but allow a solution to damp the interface you have no Al and a big bang ( Al is eaten away at the interface creating a high resistance joint, creating heat and eventually failing ) !! So would it be correct to say that the sodium molydate creates an impervious layer to the electrolyte, but is still conductive enough to allow it to function as a current collector ? I suppose if it is not totally imperious, by subsequently plating will Cu it will be. Once again, thank you for sharing this...really interesting and a potentially important step towards lighter cells !! kind regards Tony
Looks like I will have to DIY solution with what I can get my hands on...the sodium molydate 2 step from moly metal, using H2O2 to create an oxide and then NAOH to the sodium molybdate, and likewise a one step sodium flouride with hydroflouric acid and NaOH and a little heat.....Hmmm must clear the benches after the rice harvest and give it a go !! You have definitely piqued my interest !!! HaHaHa....what can possibly go wrong ;) Tony
Can this be used to copper plate plastic? Maybe apply a strip of copper tape to the plastic and then proceed with this process? The detail would be fantastic. Derp- I misunderstood. The process is passivating aluminum, not creating a conductive surface.
Wow, Another dynamite presentation! Why aren't you funded with billions? Come on people - let's make this guy our industrial leader. Thanks again. Cheers.
@@ThinkingandTinkering you are seriously good, watched a couple of your videos just now and found tons of useful applicable info. I will try your method and report back soon.
I've plated aluminium with copper sulphate solution, that I got for making the nano copper particle ink :P Tho it came out very uneven, it could be polished down
That's really cool mate. So that's sodium molybdate? That's a real gamechanger for current collectors. Does it stop corrosion completely with aqueous electrolytes? We all want thin lightweight highly conductive inert cheap current collectors.. graphoil, conductive ink, stainless steel etc don't really cut it for me.
I think that is what he said for one of the chemical names that were mentioned. Ya costs for DEV study materials is a concern here too really, managing on a low neuromuscular disability pension income much lower than what would be considered to be minimum wage for years. Often trying to be as generic in cost approach as allows for. Be cool though to eventually produce something meaningful that could be a way to give back to people, within ones own potential abilities. Keep on rocking
If I calculated right, ~2.4 grams Sodium molybdate dihydrate in 100 ml water and 100 ml vinegar to make his solution. Around 0.4 grams Sodium hydroxide in 100 ml water to make the other solution. If this idea works to protect the aluminum (or is it aluminium) current collectors, it should make DIY batteries a lot cheaper to scale up to an actual usable size.
FYI ... Aluminum foil (or aluminum flashing or soda/beer cans) can be soldered using regular electrical solder if a little oil is used to keep new oxides from forming before the solder sticks. I've got lots of new ideas if aluminum can be made to hold up as current collectors. I'm likely not the only one that ordered some new chemicals because of this video.
yes mate - sodium molybdate - just type that into a google scholar search and add the word passivation or the phrase conversion coating and you will come up with a lot of papers discussing this
@@flashlit123 the exact recipe is 2.4 g sodium molybdate, 100mL DI water, 100mL of 5% acetic acid, 1g Lithium or sodium fluoride, 2 mL concentrated phosphoric acid
@@ThinkingandTinkering Oh you must've replied before it was showing on the page i didn't refresh until now to reexamine the chemical names that were mentioned in the presentation. I'm a bit slow, nobodies prefect, lol.
Is anodized aluminum (i.e. black aluminum heatsinks) considered to already be "passivated"? (possibly, an acetone cleaning should indicate if the heatsink was simply painted, vs. anodized)... copper plating said heatsink may improve thermal transference/conductivity.
That is a interesting name for a real persons name, Johnny B Goodenough, it deserves a prize just for that, lol. Rockn' in the world of physics even. If my last name was Sane, I would pull a Frank Zappa move and call my offspring Justin.
It wasn't on foil but it was on actual Aluminum stock but I kind of got those results when I was trying to plate a piece of aluminum with graphite with some other stuff broke down into the solution. Later today I'll try to plate that with some copper . But I thought I seen somebody a while back don't quote me on this it's been awhile. that plated aluminum with copper by using a sulfuric bath first. I think it was like 1% sulfuric acid . But like I said that was a while back and I may be wrong on that one. I'll try that one later too. I was trying to Gold plate some aluminum for a mod and I ran into the video researching it.
@@ThinkingandTinkering I was wondering about this copper strike solution in the video title (and from over on your side of the pond) "How To electroplate on to Aluminum" by Golden Solution's YT channel. In regards to Jason Drennen comment, maybe per Loren Kinzel's comment "You can copper plate aluminum foil by: degrease, make a medium-dark solution of copper sulfate, rub the solution on the foil with a clean rubber eraser. Dip & rub, repeat. in about 2 minutes the copper appears on the foil. I have used this for soldering wires to the foil. Probably not practical for large areas." Seems like an interesting way to maybe improve and make a custom nickel plated carburetor for a small engine or at least the bowl. Has me wondering about upgrading the connecting rods as well homebrew style now that I think about some more... then again the thermal rates of expansion and contraction and forces applied in that more extreme environment is probably better suited for a billet part of better grade aluminum, at least, material. Titanium coating would be an interesting topic... though that will require some plasma I'm thinking.
That last part “....use that surface as a copper collector.” makes me think anything can be copper coated easily. It just needs current sent to it. Hmmmm.....?
Thanks, Robert. I had been wondering how the Chinese are producing that awful, and very cheap, Copper plated Aluminium wire which is found so often in cheap electrical goods' mains cables. It's a real fire hazard.
........haven't heard of copper plated aluminium wire but those crocodile leads Robert uses I know are copper plated iron. They're attracted to a magnet.
@UC4AkVj-qnJxNtKuz3rkq16A I was wondering about this copper strike solution in the video title (and from over on your side of the pond) "How To electroplate on to Aluminum" by Golden Solution's YT channel.
"Everyone knew it was impossible, until a fool who didn't know came along and did it." Albert Einstein
That's exactly what was in my case cause I didn't realize it is so difficult to copper plate aluminium. I was able to achieve thick layers that held the tape test and was possible to solder wires to it. But the funniest thing is that for experimenting I used only very simple ingredients like demineralized water, baking soda, washing soda, citric acid, car battery charger and some copper wires. I think I need to get back to this experiment but where to find time for that :( and the clue at the end for those who would like to try it, don't dip and live your aluminium on first layers, you have to dip it quickly many times and a very thin quite durable coat will start to form. Thank You for great inspiring video's 👍
that is an extraordinarily useful tip mate - thanks for sharing
He was one of those motivated people with dyslexia. A inspiration for morons such as myself and others, lol. You appear smarter than a dedicated moron though. Most affordable method you came up with. I can try that with a trip to the local grocery store. Shopping list copied. Thankyou as well.
@@truetech4158 i just quickly tested it as I stored the solutions. They still good after many months. Need to add some few things to save You some time. Washing soda was used to do electrolysis on copper wires and with syringe I gathered dissolved copper (oxides?). Then I made solution using demineralized water + copper + citric acid and using copper anode. The other important thing is that I use 12v 6a battery charger and did try on a lab supply but results was not that good. However to limit the current on the charger You have to use different gauges of wire and dip them more or less in a solution. If it's getting dark brown or black current is to high or it's to long in solution. Means dip faster or put less anode in. I recommend to use some gloves , glasses, and do it in well ventilated area. Hope it would work for You too. Good luck
@@maciekm7953 Thanks again brother from a probably taller mother. Oh, while reading what you wrote about creating copper oxides, figured sharing a idea being still in concept stage, as it just dawned on me that one could very easily go the illegal route, by effective means of much defacing some monarchs off the affordable coins as i dislike money really anyways (providing such events doesn't result in being sent to the guillotine) by holding those, or even those copper wires mentioned though not the wires used for electrodes, against a belt sander with pliers or slotting a piece of random 2x4 lumber with a many a penny approach held in place into the slots and let the copper oxide dust fly into a catching bin or something, maybe even with a Dremel or file or even a bit of sandpaper would seem to work in that department if going all out mcgyver mode in the middle of nowhere if stranded on a deserted island due to high taxes, lol. Also useful for if needing any other metals turned into a powder form.
@@truetech4158 I don't know where you are, but for at least a decade, 'Copper' coins in Britain and the USA have been made from Copper plated Iron. Yes, they stick to magnets, if you want a quick way to find the few remaining genuine 'Coppers'. Britain is also minting 'Silver' coins (they've not used Silver since 1947) using Nickel-on-Copper plated Iron.
Robert you never cease to amaze me, and you just always have the answer I'm looking for! Thank you once again for solving a conundrum.
the sound is terrible..
You can copper plate aluminum foil by: degrease, make a medium-dark solution of copper sulfate, rub the solution on the foil with a clean rubber eraser. Dip & rub, repeat. in about 2 minutes the copper appears on the foil. I have used this for soldering wires to the foil. Probably not practical for large areas.
How can you guys keep finding new stuff like this!!! So impressed. TY for sharing.
it just comes out of the stuff we do mate - cheers
Very impressive indeed! A big well done and thanks, Robert!
Very smart. Thanks so much for the info
Wow that’s neat! I have some lights I want to coat in copper, but they’re aluminum I think I’ll try this method and see what happens. I was actually thinking of making sodium hydroxide solution and try copper plating it directly in that maybe something will happen then.
nice video. do you think it's possible to make a clean Al-Cu interface, without any Aluminum oxide layers?
Hiya Rob ,brilliant as usual you make the impossible possible indeed ! (you're a scientist who's thinking outside the box ) thanks for sharing great idea! great video ! and great explanation ! cheers mate.
glad you liked it mate
Aluminum is one Weird Metal and it's potential is far from filled.Fusing it with copper and seeing what diamagnetic properties it may have near strong magnetic fields created by Neodymium magnets should be interesting.
You can also do it by just using sodium bi-carbonate sodium carbonate combination. and electrolysis.
Still hard to do though
Great video! I am thankful for all of the wonderful content you make. But can you please make a new plant battery video.
for sure
A plant based battery does sound interesting, reminded of those lemon type versions. Guess it's abilities may vary in power according to the type of plant. hmm..
Genius! I used to do a ton of work with aluminum, for gov aero, but nothing like this! Well done!
cheers mate
Hey Rob... Thanks again for being so generous in sharing all your ideas and hard work. Would a copper plated aluminum current collector be significantly more effective? or would the copper material be too thin resulting in early failure. Cheers Mate...
it would depend on the electrolyte mate - the passivation without the copper plating would be electrolyte independent
good job sir 👍 🙏
cheers mate
Robert, do you think there is any merit in considering this technique to 'electro-dope' some of your micro porous carbons to further increase the conductivity of your inks?
Secondly, does this technique also imply that the electroplating solution would be the 'almost' perfect battery electrolyte?
Hey Robert. I get why this video would be interesting, though I have an interest in plating other metals with aluninum/aluminium bronze.
Would love to have your input on this one. Whether by comment or video. Is this possible. Of course the answer is yes. After all we can make gold now. Of course the expense far outways the value, but the point is it's doable...
This Is awesome Rob! I'm guessing Aluminum reduces the molybdate to molybdenum oxide which is conductive and stabile?
have a quick look on google scholar mate - there are quite a few papers on this
Have you noticed if this passivation method makes the aluminum foil any more or less hydrophobic? My home built spin coater and doctor blading for GO are leaving a less homogeneous coating than I'd like. I had already been looking into hydrophilic coatings, but here you go again making a great video right in-line:)
Sounds like it can be useful if it is working to scare the water off Thanks for that info
Hi Rob, this is really interesting, thank you. As a retired Electrical Power Engineer I am acutely of the problems of transitioning from Al to Cu...basically if you can exclude the electrolyte, there's no problem but allow a solution to damp the interface you have no Al and a big bang ( Al is eaten away at the interface creating a high resistance joint, creating heat and eventually failing ) !!
So would it be correct to say that the sodium molydate creates an impervious layer to the electrolyte, but is still conductive enough to allow it to function as a current collector ?
I suppose if it is not totally imperious, by subsequently plating will Cu it will be.
Once again, thank you for sharing this...really interesting and a potentially important step towards lighter cells !!
kind regards
Tony
Looks like I will have to DIY solution with what I can get my hands on...the sodium molydate 2 step from moly metal, using H2O2 to create an oxide and then NAOH to the sodium molybdate, and likewise a one step sodium flouride with hydroflouric acid and NaOH and a little heat.....Hmmm must clear the benches after the rice harvest and give it a go !! You have definitely piqued my interest !!! HaHaHa....what can possibly go wrong ;)
Tony
Can this be used to copper plate plastic? Maybe apply a strip of copper tape to the plastic and then proceed with this process? The detail would be fantastic.
Derp- I misunderstood. The process is passivating aluminum, not creating a conductive surface.
Thank you for sharing
Wow, Another dynamite presentation! Why aren't you funded with billions? Come on people - let's make this guy our industrial leader. Thanks again. Cheers.
lol - cheers mate and thanks for taking the time to say so
@@ThinkingandTinkering you are seriously good, watched a couple of your videos just now and found tons of useful applicable info. I will try your method and report back soon.
Sir you are great
I've plated aluminium with copper sulphate solution, that I got for making the nano copper particle ink :P Tho it came out very uneven, it could be polished down
I think that is more of a pain plate mate - I've done that too but as I say it's strictly not electroplating
That's really cool mate. So that's sodium molybdate? That's a real gamechanger for current collectors. Does it stop corrosion completely with aqueous electrolytes? We all want thin lightweight highly conductive inert cheap current collectors.. graphoil, conductive ink, stainless steel etc don't really cut it for me.
I think that is what he said for one of the chemical names that were mentioned.
Ya costs for DEV study materials is a concern here too really, managing on a low neuromuscular disability pension income much lower than what would be considered to be minimum wage for years. Often trying to be as generic in cost approach as allows for. Be cool though to eventually produce something meaningful that could be a way to give back to people, within ones own potential abilities.
Keep on rocking
If I calculated right, ~2.4 grams Sodium molybdate dihydrate in 100 ml water and 100 ml vinegar to make his solution. Around 0.4 grams Sodium hydroxide in 100 ml water to make the other solution.
If this idea works to protect the aluminum (or is it aluminium) current collectors, it should make DIY batteries a lot cheaper to scale up to an actual usable size.
FYI ... Aluminum foil (or aluminum flashing or soda/beer cans) can be soldered using regular electrical solder if a little oil is used to keep new oxides from forming before the solder sticks.
I've got lots of new ideas if aluminum can be made to hold up as current collectors. I'm likely not the only one that ordered some new chemicals because of this video.
yes mate - sodium molybdate - just type that into a google scholar search and add the word passivation or the phrase conversion coating and you will come up with a lot of papers discussing this
@@flashlit123 the exact recipe is 2.4 g sodium molybdate, 100mL DI water, 100mL of 5% acetic acid, 1g Lithium or sodium fluoride, 2 mL concentrated phosphoric acid
I still don't know what FWG stands for. edit...I'll guess --> Fun With Graphene?
forward working group
@@ThinkingandTinkering Oh you must've replied before it was showing on the page i didn't refresh until now to reexamine the chemical names that were mentioned in the presentation. I'm a bit slow, nobodies prefect, lol.
@@ThinkingandTinkering : Well that anti-climactic...Oh well...I'll still have fun with graphene. 😁
Is anodized aluminum (i.e. black aluminum heatsinks) considered to already be "passivated"? (possibly, an acetone cleaning should indicate if the heatsink was simply painted, vs. anodized)... copper plating said heatsink may improve thermal transference/conductivity.
You mentioned carcinogens will the copper not be foodsafe?
I see Johnny B Goodenough pick up the nobel prize this year for his part in Li-ion...it won't be long now RMS 'till it's your turn : )
lol - hey I can dream lol
@@ThinkingandTinkering I think you are good enough.
That is a interesting name for a real persons name, Johnny B Goodenough, it deserves a prize just for that, lol. Rockn' in the world of physics even.
If my last name was Sane, I would pull a Frank Zappa move and call my offspring Justin.
@@naturalSurreality lol - cheers mate
Very interesting, could I also do this with stainless steel?
Hello! I have a hard time understanding the audio. The mic seems to be too far away.
Can you aluminium plate copper for use as fins in computer coolers!
It wasn't on foil but it was on actual Aluminum stock but I kind of got those results when I was trying to plate a piece of aluminum with graphite with some other stuff broke down into the solution. Later today I'll try to plate that with some copper . But I thought I seen somebody a while back don't quote me on this it's been awhile. that plated aluminum with copper by using a sulfuric bath first. I think it was like 1% sulfuric acid . But like I said that was a while back and I may be wrong on that one. I'll try that one later too. I was trying to Gold plate some aluminum for a mod and I ran into the video researching it.
interesting - can you find it again?
Hi Jason, how was your progress with gold plating aluminium? Would be great to hear your expert opinion on it.
@@ThinkingandTinkering I was wondering about this copper strike solution in the video title (and from over on your side of the pond) "How To electroplate on to Aluminum" by Golden Solution's YT channel. In regards to Jason Drennen comment, maybe per Loren Kinzel's comment "You can copper plate aluminum foil by: degrease, make a medium-dark solution of copper sulfate, rub the solution on the foil with a clean rubber eraser. Dip & rub, repeat. in about 2 minutes the copper appears on the foil. I have used this for soldering wires to the foil. Probably not practical for large areas." Seems like an interesting way to maybe improve and make a custom nickel plated carburetor for a small engine or at least the bowl. Has me wondering about upgrading the connecting rods as well homebrew style now that I think about some more... then again the thermal rates of expansion and contraction and forces applied in that more extreme environment is probably better suited for a billet part of better grade aluminum, at least, material. Titanium coating would be an interesting topic... though that will require some plasma I'm thinking.
@Jason Drennen Yeah, how'd your gold plating aluminum go?
That last part “....use that surface as a copper collector.” makes me think anything can be copper coated easily. It just needs current sent to it.
Hmmmm.....?
The way i understand, you can plate anything with current, but the passivation helps adhesion.
Thanks, Robert. I had been wondering how the Chinese are producing that awful, and very cheap, Copper plated Aluminium wire which is found so often in cheap electrical goods' mains cables. It's a real fire hazard.
but its was impossible acording to robert. copper clad aluminium wire has been around for a like a long time but ok :)
........haven't heard of copper plated aluminium wire but those crocodile leads Robert uses I know are copper plated iron. They're attracted to a magnet.
Hey Rob is it possible to plate something with Sodium metal at all?
@UC4AkVj-qnJxNtKuz3rkq16A I was wondering about this copper strike solution in the video title (and from over on your side of the pond) "How To electroplate on to Aluminum" by Golden Solution's YT channel.
Can one copper plate cast iron
What is the pasivator?
Would the seebeck effect work with this idea?
can aluminum wheels be chrome plated?
Thnx sir
cheers mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering ΕΥΧΑΡΙΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΛΙ ΚΥΡΙΕ ΣΜΙΘ.........ΚΥΡΙΕ ΣΜΙΘ ΝΟΜΙΖΩ ΠΩΣ ΠΡΕΠΕΙ ΝΑ ΜΑΣ ΜΑΘΕΤΕ ΝΑ ΚΑΝΟΥΜΕ FLOW BATTERY ....GOD BLESS U