Join this channel to get access to more old school Metatron videos the algorithm wouldn't prioritize! th-cam.com/channels/IjGKyrdT4Gja0VLO40RlOw.htmljoin Also if you like what I do and wish to support my work to help me make sure that I can continue to tell it how it is please consider checking out my patreon! Unboxings are Patreon exclusives! www.patreon.com/themetatron Check out the original full video! th-cam.com/video/406Aj1EhwkM/w-d-xo.html
Do you know Marcus Junkelmann? He is a rather famous german historian who very early went for experimental archaeologist. He wrote a lot of books. One especially was noteable to me: "The Legions of Augustus" - "Die Legionen des Augustus". Would be interesting, what you think about him. He walked over the alps with others in recreated outfits and with typical roman food, just to know what it felt to do so.
what people keep saying and its incorrect that Romans didn't hold east of the Rhine , The Romans ruled and controlled Limes of Germanicus which was south western German ( eastern bank of the Rhine ) till 250AD ! And Germanicus Invasions 14-17 AD were not Raids ! They were long Invasions that lasted from early March till November ( That was to keep Germans from hunting farming and causing Food problems that germans could not deal with part of Germanicus plan - latter adopted by American Generals Grant and more so Genral Sherman during the American Civil War , Gen Sherman's Georgia March was model after Germanicus plan in Germania ).and Germanicus 3 invasions of Germania was with 8 full roman legions and a full Paterion Guard Legion making tech 9 legions plus Germanic and allies from Gaul .
Greatest defeat...Definitely not. The worst was the defeat by the Vandals which lead to the sacking of Rome because it actually did so much damage Rome never fully recovered and it led to the systematic eventually fall of the west centuries later and the Vandals then taking one of Romes breadbasket for 100 years in Carthage, put a huge strain on Romes economy.
I like how you can tell Metatron is *ever so slightly* salty about it 2000 years later lol Can't really blame him, that's 3 perfectly good legions rotting away in some German forest; that'd piss off any good Roman.
As a barbarian born in today's Germania Magna, I have to say that I am quite delighted by this Roman's saltiness persisting about 2000 years later. Still hearing the dark forest's spirits whisper and seeing the trees suddenly having eyes...;)? I am thankful for the courage and intelligence of Arminius the cheruski, son of Sigimir. Lībiþ þu wiðerstanda þēra frījōnō mannō gegn thām galōnskundaz þes gadulgīs guda reikiz! Joke, love you mate
Rumor is......... Metatron woke up every night in a cold sweat, yelling out. " Varus Give Me Back My Legions".... after he discovered this great loss of the roman empire. Took him many many weeks to come to grips with this. I sir salute you for making what i can only imagine was a painful video. Be interesting to see if my ancestors and yours were there. Different sides as im German.
As a german from cologne, I have grown up with stories of the roman empire and history of my home, I feel a deep personal connection to this city and therefore also feel a connection to the roman society that founded this city. I loved watching this and I loved learning more about our ancestors. Them being german, roman or maybe both (since the roman population mixed with franks when they took over). St. Martin, a roman legionaire that converted to christianity is one of our culturally most important figures, celebrated every year on november 11th. where children carry lanterns, enact his deeds as a legionaire, and sing songs about him in our local ripuarian dialect. I hope you found this interesting and that I could give a little bit back for all the passionate content you put out there that I love.
I am Brittas boyfriend, of swabian tribe. Not far away from my village , perhaps 25/ 30 km away was former fortified border Limes between Imperium Romanum and Germania Magna, also border between provices Germania Superior and Rhaetia. In town Aalen , where in roman time a cavallry unit ,Ala' was , there is famous Römermuseum, in town Ellwangen there is a Museum about Alemannic tribe/ Alemannenmuseum. So you can do a daytrip with informing you about Romans and Alemannen.
@@brittakriep2938 Alemannen, I remeber fron history classes at school. I have been to the Schwarzwald, such a beautiful place. There was a small graveyard in the woods, for German an Russian soldiers, the soldiers were so young. 17,18, 19. Made me cry.
@@wellesmorgado4797 for you. As if your father died in the teutorborg battle last night. Chill bro. There are much worse things happening in the world right now. Let alone some shittey betrayal which happened 2015 years ago.
@@maxtryme1508 Woa dude so cool, so true also, who cares about this video? Why even comment? You're so wise, wise beyond your years, let's pay attention to (((current event))) and only care about what you care about because you're so wise and in the know!
Courier: "I was in the 19th Legion with Varus in Germania, Caesar..." Augustus: "Was? Have you been transferred?" *Top 10 moments before Absolute Rage*
When I studied in Kassel, Germany. my roommate was from Paderborn, not far from the Teutoburger forest. I remember him and some of my other local friends talking about the battle after a National Geographic article on it was published. They affectionately refer to Arminius as 'Hermann the German' and he's considered a local hero. There's even a grandiose statue honoring him near Detmold (3:05). I visited Mainz and Cologne and remember seeing many Roman relics. There's a museum right next to Cologne's famous cathedral built over the remains of a Rman villa, with a very well preserved mosaic on display in the basement that's in it's original place. You can even tour the Roman ruins under the cathedral and some of the larger medieval churches. I remember a guide stating that there aren't many tunnels, basements, or underground garages in Cologne because it is impossible to dig anywhere without coming across ruins and relics. I've really got to make it to Italy some day because the Roman empire was amazing.
I live not that far away from the Teutoburger forest but actually Arminius is called Hermann der Cherusker here in Germany.And was considered a natinoal hero not only a local one.
Tacitus wrote: So long has Germany withstood the arms of Rome. During this long interval many mutual wounds have been inflicted. Not the Samnite, the Carthaginian, Spain, Gaul, or Parthia, have given more frequent alarms; for the liberty of the Germans is more vigorous than the monarchy of the Arsacidae. What has the East, which has itself lost Pacorus, and suffered an overthrow from Ventidius, to boast against us, but the slaughter of Crassus? But the Germans, by the defeat or capture of Carbo, Cassius, Scaurus Aurelius, Servilius Caepio, and Cneius Manlius, deprived the Roman people of five consular armies; and afterwards took from Augustus himself Varus with three legions. Nor did Caius Marius in Italy, the deified Julius in Gaul, or Drusus, Nero, or Germanicus in their own country, defeat then without loss. The subsequent mighty threats of Caligula terminated in ridicule. Then succeeded tranquillity; till, seizing the occasion of our discords and civil wars, they forced the winter-quarters of the legions, and even aimed at the possession of Gaul; and, again expelled thence, they have in latter times been rather triumphed over than vanquished.
The Romans realized by the 1st century AD that there was nothing of either tactical or strategic value in subjugating Germany. Just a bunch of warlike meat eaters who lived in heavily forested areas with limited metal working. Instead, starting with Caesar, the Roman heads of state used them “as partners in his labors” for bodyguard duty and as elite shock troops. The Cheruschii of which Arminius belonged to, provided large numbers of troops to serve in the Corpus Custodes Germania until the 3rd century.
I mean, to my knowledge, they never used the Numbers of those Legions ever again. So I'd say it was quite the catastrophic defeat and left quite a scar on the Romans.
First - the 19th was re-raised by Nero and quickly disbanded ,2nd -the 17th , 18th and 19th legions were new , they had no experinced ,unlike 5th and I Germania ( Tis why Arminus ask Varus not to bring them legions and left them on Rhine ) 17 , 18th and 19th were intended to be in time permit station on Elbe River . Far as a scar that was not major defeat , major defeat was battle of Adrianople in 378Ad where combine Westeren and Eastern Roman Empire was nearly wiped out That a major defeat .Teutoberg was a Pearl Habor and even tho that was major defeat for US it was by no means the end of war that war WW2 this is same for Romans and Germany . Do not forget years latter Romans put Arminus brother Flavius as chief of there tribe and he was loyal to Rome , So who really won ?
Well, we often don't have a 13th floor. Does this mean we are all heavily superstitious? The "we don't use a specific number anylonger" should not be overestimated.
@@philmccracken7520who really won? Rome sacked twice, lost Britannia, lost Gaul, lost Hispania, lost Northern Africa, lost northern Italy, lost whole western empire. Its pretty clear Germanics won in the end.
For me the battle of Carrhae was the most crushing roman defeat. Not only from numbers and tactics perspective, but because it ended with the death of Crassus, one of the wealthiest, if not the wealthiest, Romans, and member of the first triumvirate. The thing is that Carrhae doesn't get the same attention, because it happened in the East against the Parthians/Persians and not in the West.
The intros of these history documentaries always reminds me of the Philomena Cunk intro line " I'll be starting a sentence in one country....and finishing it in another! "
The disaster aspect probably was that it put a cultural wedge between what later would become France and Germany, and the historic tragedies coming from this for hundreds of years culminated in the 20th century and can still be felt today. Compared to this losing three legions for Rome was but a hick-up.
you know, but for other people... lorica segmentata showed here is type Kalkriese, oldest form, preceded corbridge and newstead... and about Teutoburg forest, i think, in some ways it was decisive battle, because after it, Romans abandoned their plans to create new province, of course, they punished them in Idistaviso, but... in general, their expansion ended on the Rhein
The German tribes did not want to have a state or a leader. They accepted them only in times of war. But Arminius was in Rome. And he thought he could become a Germanic Caesar. But when the battles was won they did not want him as leader any longer. So for Arminius it was a victory and a lost at the same time.
I'm in UK and definately agree that some UK productions put in a modernist interpretation of history. However I am really enjoying the extra information from Metatron. Simple things like putting grease/lard onto leather. Wiping down helmets etc from rain. I am always more interested in the day to day living of ordinary soldiers and people than those of high status. I have seen this programme and hope Metatron comments on the commentator putting on full armour and then having to carry weapons and food. Men were men in those days.
@@gaillouise8310 In Uk English program is connected to computers, programme is something you watch. Don't understand your comment. Miss Reed is a literary character.
6:46 at this moment, a feeling, a shard of a memory of one of metatrons ancestors creeped into his mind, maybe it was grief, maybe it was frustration, maybe it was anger. All he knew was that he didnt like it.
I briefly visited Germany in 1992. While there, I took a boat tour of the Rhine canyon, down to Koblenz. At least I was on the upper Rhine, and have some idea of how big it is.
I've often wondered what kind of fight they put up. Obviously we know they were completely ambushed and outflanked but there had to of still been a crazy battle, its not like the Romans just laid down. I wonder how many Germans they took with them.
yes great collab, I was pleasantly surprised to see him there, although I knew Metatron and Shad had known each other , I didnt expect Metatron to join FNT. It's cool, 'we' (normal non-woke tard people) are gaining momentum.
One thing that is often overlooked is the sheer size of the roman population. In the golden age of the empire there where 8-10 million people living on the italian penisula, at a time there were not much more than 100 million people in the entire world. Almost every 10th human lived in the roman heartland.
@@maxtryme1508I mean Arminius is seen as the first German when Germany was first founded as a country and the quote is really famous so it's understandable. Just like the fall of Constantinople is well researched.
Major Roman defeats in the East. Battle of Carrhae (53BC) Battle of Rhandeia (62AD) This wasn't a horrible loss, but Rome had to give up control of Armenia for a brief period & the treaty signed was in place until 113AD. Battle of Nisibis (217AD) The last Roman-Parthian confrontation in which the Parthians force Rome to evacuate some key territories in Mesopotamia + a huge sum of money as tribute. In 233AD, Severus Alexander heavily botched a counter-invasion of Persia & this led to the southern Roman army group being completely destroyed in Mesopotamia by the Sassanid army in Rome & Sassanid Persia's first clash. Battle of Misiche (244AD) Emperor Gordian III is (possibly) killed in battle & the Roman army is trapped in Persia. New Emperor Philip has to pay an embarrassing amount of gold to be allowed to go free. 252-253AD: Persians sack Cappadocia, Syria & the city of Antioch itself. 256AD - Persians sack Syria & Antioch again. Siege of Edessa (260AD) Valerian becomes the first Roman Emperor to be captured by a foreign enemy & the Persians overrun Syria, Palaestina, Cilicia & Lydia, sacking & plundering the East until 262AD. Loss of Nisibis in 359AD Battle of Samarra (363AD) Julian dies & his army is trapped in Mesopotamia, leading to his successor Jovian signing a humiliating peace that saw the permanent loss of Nisibis. Battle of Callinicum (531AD) Belisarius is heavily defeated by the Sassanids after attacking them while they were retreated with plunder. Battle of Anglon (543AD) Not much is known about this battle, it's just known that this was a decisive Persian victory somewhere in Old Armenia. Siege of Onoguris (554 or 555AD) A Roman fortress called Archaeopolis is completely destroyed by the Persians & the Romans never use it again. Fall of Dara (573AD) Persia conquered THE Roman fortress of the East, the Emperor goes insane. 602-628: Persian invasion & conquests of the Roman East + the Battle of Antioch (613AD) Alot of crazy battles throughout the Roman-Persian Wars (54BC - 628AD)
23:14 Imagine being a legionnaire from the sunbathed coast of Tuscany, having travelled for months, walking over 1000 kilometers, enduring the elements, pain and maybe hunger just to come to this: A cold, foggy, humid and dark forest filled with barbarians who want nothing more than to kill you. Those poor Romans. 😅
Agreed - at least in parts. I see some significant parallels in roman "multiculturalism" (which was never a thing, but I am sure you knew that before), and the results we see today. To make a long story short: it could work a whole lot better, if we - for once - really had learned from the past. By approaching the same propblem the same way: how come we would expect different results?
Was the battle a disaster for the Imperium Romanum? Absolutely. Was it the worst? Maybe, maybe not. It surely wasn't the end of R And how did they do it? They were organised. And Rome never managed to take germania magna. Even C. IVLIVS CÆSAR only went over to tell them there is no place Rome can't go. And then went back over the Rhine.
Another factor on the "mild climate" aspect is that the Mediterranean doesn't typically have oppressive humidity. I live in a city where the humidity level almost never drops below 80% and most people find that insane when they visit. The opposite extreme is deserts, and as with many other things, Italy and the surrounding areas of the Mediterranean tend to fall somewhere in between. You get high spikes of humidity, but rarely get into truly arid levels of (lack of) moisture in the air.
I loved your reaction at the beginning - "Never heard of it." Priceless. That said, I really enjoy your content and the way you handle history so precisely without denying a certain bias here and there, which is very human and relatable. And I have great respect for you not letting bias get in the way of objectivity. As a history teacher that is something I try to pass on to my students - you are allowed to have feelings of sympathy to a certain group in history but keep an open mind and try to understand different perspectives. In the end you will be able to get ever closer to "the truth" - step by step. Thank you for your work and I would really enjoy a reaction to the rest of this documentary.
In germany, Arminius is called "Hermann der Cherusker". That name was given to him at the secound half of the 18th century to create a national mythos around the battle in Teutoburg Forest.
Metatron’s reactions in the first few minutes reminded me of Geriatrix in the Asterix comics. “Alesia? Never heard of it! I don’t even know where it is! So there!”
The V Alaudae was not annihilated as stated. However it did lose it's eagle which was later recovered. This is just another BBC programme pushing an agenda and does not really do justice to the subject. The fact is that it was not three complete legions that made that fateful final journey. Varus is critised for splitting up his force in enemy territory by Dio. The legions were vastly outnumbered in unfavorable terrain and at a considerable tactical disadvantage. However, the legions fought well. It could have been as few as 10k men making that last journey. If you want to really get a good picture of what happened read the sources. Varus was a military non entity, despite the tenancy of some of these programmes to beef him up. Arminius was not as innovative as one may think. The tribes had tried the same tactics on Drusus who was a more competent commander. All in all it was unfortunately a perfect storm for the Legions. Vale.
There is a very significant word in the german language: Stolz... which means pride. To have Stolz, to be stolz - to be proud - is one of foundations of a german mentality. We even have the saying "Stolz ein Deutscher zu sein."... be proud to be a German. But the etemologic roots of the word - der Stolz/the Pride - can be found in the Latin language. When the Roman's came in contact with those barbaric German people they called them stulutus. Stulutus. The Germanic tribes seemed to have heard this word so much... that they took it and integrated it into their own language. Oh, Professore Metatron would you please be so kind and translate this word, for us?
As a German living where once the Cherusci lived, I will say the Germans started the decline of the roman empire. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Rome destroyed itself more than any enemy from outside did. in the end, it was a civil war battle in 394 AD that brought the end of the western field troops - and they never recovered.
It's also problem of roman too. They only thought about themselves. Seeing them as top of the world. When there were other empires better than or equal to Romans or which can defeat rome without even Roman understanding. Take parthia fir example. Also think about horse archery which roman was slow to adopt. Because they thought lorica segmentata was the best in the world. When persian cataphracts and Chinese and indian armour also existed. Which were better depending on the land, climate and terrain. Even modern west does the same too. They think they are the centre of the world ( now yes ). But that doesn't mean other countries aren't capable of great things.
It's also problem of roman too. They only thought about themselves. Seeing them as top of the world. When there were other empires better than Romans or which can defeat rome without even Roman knowing.
@TomWagner-sk5dm All I said the "barbarians " started it. Being stretched so far into different continents. People rebelling more and more. Seeing not everything outside the empire is awful. The Romans underestimating the capabilities of these "lesser" civilisations. Lots of things factors.
My esteemed friend Meta, I come to you to escape the depressing state of our government and you never fail to disappoint. Thanks, you are a kind, honest and charming man, it lifts my morale. I like your humor, unlike 99.9% that don't ever even make me smile.
The Battle of Arausio was the worst Roman defeat. Its long-term socioeconomic, political, and military impact was staggering. The battle started a chain of events that led to the fall of the Republic.
You can see their inability to separate their modernist perspective when investigating history without contextualizing properly. This also happens when reading the writings of General Robert E Lee.
I was watching that particular History Hit episode thinking, oh, what will Metatron say. Still salty 😄Oh Varus! My Varus! Our fearful trip is done! (and we lost).
Hey Metatron. Regarding the 'Rejecting the Imperial System' quote, this is from an exhibition at the British museum about the Roman army. It loosely follows the career of Claudius Terentianus who was injured putting down a revolt in Alexandria.
In the Asterix comic, whenever someone asks the conquered gauls under roman occupation about Alesia, they all respond with something like "Alesia? What is this Alesia? Never heard of it! What even happened at Alesia?". That's the vibes I'm getting here.
30:12 "he'd served with the Roman armies that were attempting to put down a major revolt in the Balkans region of the empire": This sentence casually alludes to some interesting context. The revolt in question was the Great Illyrian Revolt, also called the Bato Revolt after the two men of that name who led it. While serving in Tiberius's campaign of reconquest, Arminius heard about the battle in the Volcaean Marshes, where an Illyrian force had attacked an encamped Roman force and came close to destroying it. He also saw how ruthless Rome could be to subjects which desired independence. Most probably, he resolved that Rome was too dangerous an overlord and carefully planned an ambush inspired by, and improving on, the one in the Volcaean Marshes. See: th-cam.com/video/vbvNk-K-KYU/w-d-xo.html
British and Germanic productions about the Romans often do have an "almost nationalist" perspective where they push the idea that they were the underdogs that engaged in a brave struggle against the powerful authoritarian and all conquering Roman Empire. This is pretty common in other parts of the world like East Asia, where Korea and Vietnam have similar perspectives talking about struggles against the powerful "Chinese" empires like the Han Dynasty (that controlled parts of modern day Korea, Vietnam, Central Asia, etc) and the Tang Dynasty that warred in and controlled many of those territories as well.
True, but the same could be said about italians about the romans😅 and the same applies to greece. Its inherent to most cultures to place theirs above others especially in Europe because theres such a vast array of cultures in close proximity. In this case its just more like friendly competition.
I’ve never thought of it like that before, but I can certainly see your point when it comes to the British productions about Queen Boudicca. I guess I don’t feel like I’m ethnically or culturally connected enough to the ancient Britons to feel any semblance of nationalist sentiment towards them. If suppose if I was Welsh, Cornish, or Pictish-Scottish I might, but I’m not.
I can assure you that no contemporary documentary-at least from a serious source such as German TV-would have any "nationalist" sub-tome. Particularly when it comes to the Teuteburg Battle, the first thing they show is the monument, underlining that it is in the wrong place and explaining the misconception of the battle's representation in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. They also - all - make clear that Arminius eventually was killed by his own people.
@twocents-Thomas-Zadro Historical documentaries would care more about accuracy. However, German war drama TV shows about the Romans such as Barbarians (2020) are very inaccurate and have those almost nationalist subtones (eg. Germanic tribes are the primitiive good guys living in harmony with nature, and are underdogs resisting conquest against the authoritarian mechanical Romans). The show was criticized for reviving 19th century nationalist narratives.
@metatronyt First time I have to disagree with you here. The "noble savages resist evil colonialists" kind of angle is not so much a modernist interpretation but goes back in German literature at least 200 years, probably more. And at the risk of incurring your wrath, I'd suggest that for the longest time historiography and fiction were somewhat too soft on the Roman Empire. For the longest time, the tenor was like "the Romans spread civilisation, hooray!". Well, yeah, they did that. But not from the generosity of their hearts. And untold numbers died because of it. Kiernan and others have even gone so far as to call Caesar's conquest of Gaul (pursued for rather selfish reasons) the first genocide in recorded history.
A second episode would be great. It's one thing to watch a documentary myself, but having another person's input on the info being presented makes it that bit better.
I watched these two videos yesterday, very interesting and informative. There are writings that when Gauls appeared in Rome the citizens would ridicule them for wearing trousers even though they were equally Roman citizens at the time
You know, the Teutoburg-Forest is very near where I live. Back in school, we learnd all about the epic battle of Varus and Arminius. If you ever plan to take a trip to Germany, you should definetly visit the Teutoburg-Forest. Sometimes you can still feel the magic of the ancient cheruscan druids there :D
It should be noted that this defeat was a major factor that led to Rome deciding Germania was not worth conquering, and thus the Germans keeping their culture and language. Eventually the Germans brought their language to England, where it evolved into the English we speak today. The effects are even felt to this day... with Metatron speaking on TH-cam in a GERMANIC language.
The battle of Frigidus in 394 was the most devastating, most of the western empire field troops were annihilated - and didn't have time to recover. ten years later the rhine border collapsed.
@TomWagner-sk5dm Have Constantine II win against Constans, and then we have a stronger ruler and 3 less civil wars-especially due to the stronger force that Constantine and Constantine impose. The Frigidus never happens if the battle of Aquileia doesn't either.
At the end of the Julian/Senate civil wars it is said that Imperator Augustus had 60 legions of varying conditions under his control and rapidly reorganised and disbanded down to a list of 20. But given that in theory there was supposed to be an auxiliary force of equal or greater number present for every legion, and each town had its own Vigiles to enforce order, a total military strength of around 720,000 soldiers plus reserves and special agents. No wonder he immediately started cost cutting. More peaceful areas like Spain and Libya got one legion to watch them, troublemakers like Britannia and Judea generally had three and the German borders could have anywhere from five to nine depending on circumstances. Particularly vast armies were rare to see deployed but like Mark Anthony against the parthians forces of 100,000 were used on occasions.
Barbarian: "Well... You conquered us... Wow ouch... Out of curiosity what is your opinion, is it because our army was incompetent or because your army was the stronger?" Roman: "The road to success is learning the best way to exploit both." Barbarian: "Very wise."
So....they went back to Germania to make them pay for Teutoburg Forest, but in the end, the Vandals went for Rome's jugular......and got it! Never forget, Imperialist....... Skyrim belongs to the Nords 😊
I think, the most devastating lost battle of Rome was the Battle of Fridigus in 394 A.D. in northern Italy. Because of the consequences. As part of a roman civil war, this battle brought the end of most of the western comitatenses, the field armies of the late roman army. the troops of the west never recovered from that casualties, and about ten years later the Rhine border collapsed and Britain was abandoned.
Even if I never have been in this area of Germany. I live 900 km inland travel to Cologne from my hometown. I wlould say this area is not wet or moist. Its just filmed after a rainy period in autumn. I would consider this area relatively dry, almost like my home Region, wich still can be green but usually not in Summer.
ohhh seeing Metatron squirm under the implication that 'The Roman Army' (i mean it was just one army) was defeated by mere barabrians (which they weren'T as the attackers were compromised of mostly roman trained auxiliaries), grandious! One could argue, the reason why the germanics were the most successful in resisting roman rule, was simply, because they were more willign to adapt to the roman way, in quite a few aspects, whihc is not suprising, since they at that time, they did relatively recently came 'down' into continental europe from their own ancestreal ground in the north, so you may consider them not to be too much anchored in traditions yet, that those could easily be modified, to fit their needs, as well as the general development of the world aroudn them. Also Rome was not 'defeated' by the germans, but they basically determined that the effort of overthrowing Germania Magna was just to great for the gains.
"The losses aren't worth it anymore" is what's commonly called losing. Normally you hear this nonsense about the Vietnam war where "the US didn't lose, they just chose not to win". Sure, were the Romans willing to endure more difficulties and casualties they could have won but they weren't and so they lost. Do we really need to sugarcoat wars because some people get offended at the idea of "their" country losing a war.
Let me simply put it this way what ancient Germany left for us to marvel at, except they once beat the Romans. Nothing else, no great works of architecture or literature, nothing and that makes rome great what we still owe them, not the battles.
@@andyforbes5553 the ancient germans went on to become the peoples who made northern europe the greatest peoples on the earth. Britain is just one example. roman britain died when they left, when the germanic peoples came it began anew, thus creating england and the rest is history. france? the franks?
I believe that the retelling of the battle of Teutoburg has given some wrong impressions over the years, also through documentaries in many cases, especially before the site of the battle at the Harzhorn was discovered in 2008, which had subsequently led German historians and historians in general to change their views about the actual effects that the battle of Teutoburg really had on the Roman empire, since the archaeological site at Harzhorn confirmed the Roman sources about Maximinus Thrax's campaigns and in turn the Romans' capacity to march deep into Germania even well after the battle of Teutoburg and Germanicus' retaliatory campaigns. Of course with the battle of Teutoburg and - of no less importance - Tiberius' decision to not let Germanicus annex or re-annex that entire area of Germania Magna previously under Roman control, Rome was denied the possibiliy to directly control all that territory, which could have been important later in terms of less extension of the Roman limes and its fortifications (not necessarily making it better defendable though), but Germania Magna actually remained an important buffer zone for the Romans even after Teutoburg, firstly because most Germanic tribes including the Cherusci returned under Roman influence and vassalage as a result of Germanicus' expeditions and in the immediate years after Arminius' death; which is why the battle of Teutoburg is only erroneously thought to be the definitive end of Roman influence in Germania, while as an axiomatic truth Rome not only kept extending its influence over the Germanic tribes but the Roman legions marched in Germania again and again even after Germanicus' campaigns, under Claudius, Domitian, Marcus Aurelius, Maximinus Thrax, Constantine etc. completely crushing and/or forcing into submission various Germanic tribes and confederations whenever they attacked the empire, leaving aside all the times that the Romans absolutely crushed invading armies of Germanic tribes and coalitions in Roman territory of course.
From Ammianus Marcellinus, we allways knew that Romans operated east of the Rhine in later centuries. In my eyes, there is a tendency among archaeologist to make their particular discovery "the sensation of the century" in general, and the Harzhorn battle is a good example for this.
I have a major in European history, and attended colleges in the states of Iowa and California. This documentary was almost exactly how the professors taught about the battle of Teutoburg forest.
I know this Forest Battle!! This is where they had this huge battle next to the forest and over night, the forest killed the invaders. Then the Forest went off to find the lady trees and the defenders went to fight with another kingdom against a guy with really dry/red eyes and a complex about his jewelry.
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Do you know Marcus Junkelmann? He is a rather famous german historian who very early went for experimental archaeologist. He wrote a lot of books. One especially was noteable to me: "The Legions of Augustus" - "Die Legionen des Augustus". Would be interesting, what you think about him. He walked over the alps with others in recreated outfits and with typical roman food, just to know what it felt to do so.
"1 Teutoberg with cheese" 😂 You reminded me how hungry I am right now.
what people keep saying and its incorrect that Romans didn't hold east of the Rhine , The Romans ruled and controlled Limes of Germanicus which was south western German ( eastern bank of the Rhine ) till 250AD ! And Germanicus Invasions 14-17 AD were not Raids ! They were long Invasions that lasted from early March till November ( That was to keep Germans from hunting farming and causing Food problems that germans could not deal with part of Germanicus plan - latter adopted by American Generals Grant and more so Genral Sherman during the American Civil War , Gen Sherman's Georgia March was model after Germanicus plan in Germania ).and Germanicus 3 invasions of Germania was with 8 full roman legions and a full Paterion Guard Legion making tech 9 legions plus Germanic and allies from Gaul .
Greatest defeat...Definitely not. The worst was the defeat by the Vandals which lead to the sacking of Rome because it actually did so much damage Rome never fully recovered and it led to the systematic eventually fall of the west centuries later and the Vandals then taking one of Romes breadbasket for 100 years in Carthage, put a huge strain on Romes economy.
Greetings from Bad Rothenfelde, from the Teutoburger Forest…… Cherusker rock! 💪🏼
I like how you can tell Metatron is *ever so slightly* salty about it 2000 years later lol
Can't really blame him, that's 3 perfectly good legions rotting away in some German forest; that'd piss off any good Roman.
Imagine his reaction once he finds out what happened in 476 AD.
Metatron is after all is a proud descendant of rome
Well....Metatron the proud Roman Imperialist forgets one very important detail......
.......Skyrim belongs to the Nords!
3 legions against 500.000 Germanics mauled by Germanicus. 😂
"Salty"..😅
@@alessandrom7181 ...according to Germanicus, of course.
As a barbarian born in today's Germania Magna, I have to say that I am quite delighted by this Roman's saltiness persisting about 2000 years later. Still hearing the dark forest's spirits whisper and seeing the trees suddenly having eyes...;)? I am thankful for the courage and intelligence of Arminius the cheruski, son of Sigimir.
Lībiþ þu wiðerstanda þēra frījōnō mannō gegn thām galōnskundaz þes gadulgīs guda reikiz!
Joke, love you mate
I love his videos but for sure he was a bit salty 😂😂😂
Rumor is......... Metatron woke up every night in a cold sweat, yelling out. " Varus Give Me Back My Legions".... after he discovered this great loss of the roman empire. Took him many many weeks to come to grips with this. I sir salute you for making what i can only imagine was a painful video.
Be interesting to see if my ancestors and yours were there. Different sides as im German.
What is that quote from? I've seen a lot of people post it here.
@@ytsmit’s from the emperor Augustus
Metatron came out of his mother’s womb screaming that!
In France, a Teutoburger with cheese is called a Waterloo avec fromage.
hon hon hon
What do you call a Quarter Pounder, then?
Whats that shit they put all over their fries?
@@Wiwaznot sure But a Big Mac is Le Big Mac
Only Waterloo is not in France ...
As a german from cologne, I have grown up with stories of the roman empire and history of my home, I feel a deep personal connection to this city and therefore also feel a connection to the roman society that founded this city. I loved watching this and I loved learning more about our ancestors. Them being german, roman or maybe both (since the roman population mixed with franks when they took over). St. Martin, a roman legionaire that converted to christianity is one of our culturally most important figures, celebrated every year on november 11th. where children carry lanterns, enact his deeds as a legionaire, and sing songs about him in our local ripuarian dialect. I hope you found this interesting and that I could give a little bit back for all the passionate content you put out there that I love.
As a Dutch woman I have always felt a certain affinity with the Germanic tribes in the Teutoberger Wald.
I am Brittas boyfriend, of swabian tribe. Not far away from my village , perhaps 25/ 30 km away was former fortified border Limes between Imperium Romanum and Germania Magna, also border between provices Germania Superior and Rhaetia. In town Aalen , where in roman time a cavallry unit ,Ala' was , there is famous Römermuseum, in town Ellwangen there is a Museum about Alemannic tribe/ Alemannenmuseum. So you can do a daytrip with informing you about Romans and Alemannen.
@@brittakriep2938 Alemannen, I remeber fron history classes at school. I have been to the Schwarzwald, such a beautiful place. There was a small graveyard in the woods, for German an Russian soldiers, the soldiers were so young. 17,18, 19. Made me cry.
@@leeturnbull2082 yes, they did….there were long stretches of peaceful trading across the Limes
@@leeturnbull2082 True, the Romans left no genetic imprint in Britain
"Quintilius Varus, Give me back my legions!"
Quinctilius Varus. WHERE ARE MY EAGLES? (I came to say exactly(ish) the same.
Quintili Vare, legiones redde!
You beat me to it!
Brian Blessed played a wonderful Augustus.
@@ostsan8598 Wonderful. Absolutely wonderful.
2015 years later & it is still painful ...
@@wellesmorgado4797 for you.
@@wellesmorgado4797 for you. As if your father died in the teutorborg battle last night. Chill bro. There are much worse things happening in the world right now. Let alone some shittey betrayal which happened 2015 years ago.
@@maxtryme1508wrong, pal.
@@johnjones8888 theres wrong in it. Modern world are going through more worse problem than what happened in ancient times.
@@maxtryme1508 Woa dude so cool, so true also, who cares about this video? Why even comment? You're so wise, wise beyond your years, let's pay attention to (((current event))) and only care about what you care about because you're so wise and in the know!
Courier: "I was in the 19th Legion with Varus in Germania, Caesar..."
Augustus: "Was? Have you been transferred?"
*Top 10 moments before Absolute Rage*
Jack Pulman thanks you.
"I want my eagles!!!"
Quintili Vare Legionnes Reddi
"VARUS RETURN MY LEGIONS"
I can sense the genetic PTSD when Teutburg is mentioned.
"WHERE ARE MY LEGIONS VARUS!"
When I studied in Kassel, Germany. my roommate was from Paderborn, not far from the Teutoburger forest. I remember him and some of my other local friends talking about the battle after a National Geographic article on it was published. They affectionately refer to Arminius as 'Hermann the German' and he's considered a local hero. There's even a grandiose statue honoring him near Detmold (3:05). I visited Mainz and Cologne and remember seeing many Roman relics. There's a museum right next to Cologne's famous cathedral built over the remains of a Rman villa, with a very well preserved mosaic on display in the basement that's in it's original place. You can even tour the Roman ruins under the cathedral and some of the larger medieval churches. I remember a guide stating that there aren't many tunnels, basements, or underground garages in Cologne because it is impossible to dig anywhere without coming across ruins and relics. I've really got to make it to Italy some day because the Roman empire was amazing.
I live not that far away from the Teutoburger forest but actually Arminius is called
Hermann der Cherusker here in Germany.And was considered a natinoal hero not only a local one.
Tacitus wrote: So long has Germany withstood the arms of Rome. During this long interval many mutual wounds have been inflicted. Not the Samnite, the Carthaginian, Spain, Gaul, or Parthia, have given more frequent alarms; for the liberty of the Germans is more vigorous than the monarchy of the Arsacidae. What has the East, which has itself lost Pacorus, and suffered an overthrow from Ventidius, to boast against us, but the slaughter of Crassus? But the Germans, by the defeat or capture of Carbo, Cassius, Scaurus Aurelius, Servilius Caepio, and Cneius Manlius, deprived the Roman people of five consular armies; and afterwards took from Augustus himself Varus with three legions. Nor did Caius Marius in Italy, the deified Julius in Gaul, or Drusus, Nero, or Germanicus in their own country, defeat then without loss. The subsequent mighty threats of Caligula terminated in ridicule. Then succeeded tranquillity; till, seizing the occasion of our discords and civil wars, they forced the winter-quarters of the legions, and even aimed at the possession of Gaul; and, again expelled thence, they have in latter times been rather triumphed over than vanquished.
The Romans realized by the 1st century AD that there was nothing of either tactical or strategic value in subjugating Germany. Just a bunch of warlike meat eaters who lived in heavily forested areas with limited metal working. Instead, starting with Caesar, the Roman heads of state used them “as partners in his labors” for bodyguard duty and as elite shock troops. The Cheruschii of which Arminius belonged to, provided large numbers of troops to serve in the Corpus Custodes Germania until the 3rd century.
@@stuartfrye7368
and the romans were so self-assured , that they ensured the eventual grand tours (🔥) of rome itself by none other than: ‘germans’ 😂😂😂
@@stuartfrye7368
…= forever the fate of self-assured *FOPPISH* ‘superior’ idiots
😂😂😂
@@stuartfrye7368
i.e., the karmic fate of self-assured , f0ρριsh metros
@@stuartfrye7368 There would have been enormous benefits to shortening the line of defense against external barbarians.
I mean, to my knowledge, they never used the Numbers of those Legions ever again. So I'd say it was quite the catastrophic defeat and left quite a scar on the Romans.
I imagine it would have been used as a cautionary tale to all future military leaders. Ie "Don't be like Varus" Etc
First - the 19th was re-raised by Nero and quickly disbanded ,2nd -the 17th , 18th and 19th legions were new , they had no experinced ,unlike 5th and I Germania ( Tis why Arminus ask Varus not to bring them legions and left them on Rhine ) 17 , 18th and 19th were intended to be in time permit station on Elbe River . Far as a scar that was not major defeat , major defeat was battle of Adrianople in 378Ad where combine Westeren and Eastern Roman Empire was nearly wiped out That a major defeat .Teutoberg was a Pearl Habor and even tho that was major defeat for US it was by no means the end of war that war WW2 this is same for Romans and Germany . Do not forget years latter Romans put Arminus brother Flavius as chief of there tribe and he was loyal to Rome , So who really won ?
Well, we often don't have a 13th floor.
Does this mean we are all heavily superstitious?
The "we don't use a specific number anylonger" should not be overestimated.
@@philmccracken7520who really won?
Rome sacked twice, lost Britannia, lost Gaul, lost Hispania, lost Northern Africa, lost northern Italy, lost whole western empire.
Its pretty clear Germanics won in the end.
@@cmd7930defeat? Maybe more like outlived the empire. It was doomed to collaspe.
romans ... al gangsta untill the forest speaks germanic
👍😂😂😂
It definitely happened.
VARUS!!! GIB BACK LEGIONS 😭
I think it's " Varrus, where are my eagles?"
No, it's definitely reported to be QUINTILIUS VARUS GIB BACK LEGIONS
“ GIBS ME MUH LEGIONS AN SHEEIT!” There fixed it
@@JuaneDosesII-wj6dd MUH FUGGIN LEGIONS 😭😭😭
Yes, I would like a Teutoburg with cheese, and fries on the side.
....and a Ceasars salad 😂😂
Ahhhh, eine wunderbare Geschichte. Ich liebe es, mich daran zurückzuerinnern.
For me the battle of Carrhae was the most crushing roman defeat. Not only from numbers and tactics perspective, but because it ended with the death of Crassus, one of the wealthiest, if not the wealthiest, Romans, and member of the first triumvirate. The thing is that Carrhae doesn't get the same attention, because it happened in the East against the Parthians/Persians and not in the West.
The intros of these history documentaries always reminds me of the Philomena Cunk intro line " I'll be starting a sentence in one country....and finishing it in another! "
"Quintilius Varus, WHERE ARE MY EAGLES?"
If you haven't seen I, Claudius, I recommend it.
What, this quote again? Is there ANYONE on this channel who has not seen I, Claudius?!
@@ansibarius4633 I mean, it's possible.
I haven't seen I Clavdivs!
Thanks for adding some perspective. I've often felt that the "disaster" aspect of Teutoberg gets overstated, perhaps for dramatic effect.
The disaster aspect probably was that it put a cultural wedge between what later would become France and Germany, and the historic tragedies coming from this for hundreds of years culminated in the 20th century and can still be felt today. Compared to this losing three legions for Rome was but a hick-up.
you know, but for other people... lorica segmentata showed here is type Kalkriese, oldest form, preceded corbridge and newstead... and about Teutoburg forest, i think, in some ways it was decisive battle, because after it, Romans abandoned their plans to create new province, of course, they punished them in Idistaviso, but... in general, their expansion ended on the Rhein
The German tribes did not want to have a state or a leader. They accepted them only in times of war. But Arminius was in Rome. And he thought he could become a Germanic Caesar. But when the battles was won they did not want him as leader any longer. So for Arminius it was a victory and a lost at the same time.
I'm in UK and definately agree that some UK productions put in a modernist interpretation of history. However I am really enjoying the extra information from Metatron. Simple things like putting grease/lard onto leather. Wiping down helmets etc from rain. I am always more interested in the day to day living of ordinary soldiers and people than those of high status. I have seen this programme and hope Metatron comments on the commentator putting on full armour and then having to carry weapons and food. Men were men in those days.
😅missread you can't spell either...what is with the extra m and e on the word program. Totally unneeded but so English.
@@gaillouise8310 In Uk English program is connected to computers, programme is something you watch. Don't understand your comment. Miss Reed is a literary character.
@@gaillouise8310We invented the language, not our fault Webster decided to screw it up.
@@gaillouise8310 hey Grammer nazi, it's our native language, which we kindly blessed the world with, we will write and spell it how we want to. 😂😂😂
@Patriot1428 I speak more than English!
So the modern Sicilians have inherited the tenaciousness of the old Roman Empire-Metatron, our case in point.
6:46 at this moment, a feeling, a shard of a memory of one of metatrons ancestors creeped into his mind, maybe it was grief, maybe it was frustration, maybe it was anger.
All he knew was that he didnt like it.
*Unhinged Germanic tribesmen screaming*
I briefly visited Germany in 1992. While there, I took a boat tour of the Rhine canyon, down to Koblenz. At least I was on the upper Rhine, and have some idea of how big it is.
I've often wondered what kind of fight they put up. Obviously we know they were completely ambushed and outflanked but there had to of still been a crazy battle, its not like the Romans just laid down. I wonder how many Germans they took with them.
This is one of my favourite historical events! I'd love a dedicated video from Metatron's perspective!
You were great on FNT last night, hope they have you back on more often. Love your channel man!
yes great collab, I was pleasantly surprised to see him there, although I knew Metatron and Shad had known each other , I didnt expect Metatron to join FNT. It's cool, 'we' (normal non-woke tard people) are gaining momentum.
@@jfb.8746 well said good sir!
i think we should try help to get Metatron pushed to a million , he is almost there
Inb4 the Germans intervene.
I just finished this History Hit video today. Awesome to watch your perspective on it!
One thing that is often overlooked is the sheer size of the roman population. In the golden age of the empire there where 8-10 million people living on the italian penisula, at a time there were not much more than 100 million people in the entire world. Almost every 10th human lived in the roman heartland.
It is a shame that there aren't documentaries on other major Roman defeats in the east against the Parthians and Sassanids.
right, the battle of Carrhae and the death of Crassus is well known. also the battles of Shapur I.
Youre right. It's because the world is now western centric.
@@maxtryme1508I mean Arminius is seen as the first German when Germany was first founded as a country and the quote is really famous so it's understandable. Just like the fall of Constantinople is well researched.
Major Roman defeats in the East.
Battle of Carrhae (53BC)
Battle of Rhandeia (62AD) This wasn't a horrible loss, but Rome had to give up control of Armenia for a brief period & the treaty signed was in place until 113AD.
Battle of Nisibis (217AD) The last Roman-Parthian confrontation in which the Parthians force Rome to evacuate some key territories in Mesopotamia + a huge sum of money as tribute.
In 233AD, Severus Alexander heavily botched a counter-invasion of Persia & this led to the southern Roman army group being completely destroyed in Mesopotamia by the Sassanid army in Rome & Sassanid Persia's first clash.
Battle of Misiche (244AD) Emperor Gordian III is (possibly) killed in battle & the Roman army is trapped in Persia. New Emperor Philip has to pay an embarrassing amount of gold to be allowed to go free.
252-253AD: Persians sack Cappadocia, Syria & the city of Antioch itself.
256AD - Persians sack Syria & Antioch again.
Siege of Edessa (260AD) Valerian becomes the first Roman Emperor to be captured by a foreign enemy & the Persians overrun Syria, Palaestina, Cilicia & Lydia, sacking & plundering the East until 262AD.
Loss of Nisibis in 359AD
Battle of Samarra (363AD) Julian dies & his army is trapped in Mesopotamia, leading to his successor Jovian signing a humiliating peace that saw the permanent loss of Nisibis.
Battle of Callinicum (531AD) Belisarius is heavily defeated by the Sassanids after attacking them while they were retreated with plunder.
Battle of Anglon (543AD) Not much is known about this battle, it's just known that this was a decisive Persian victory somewhere in Old Armenia.
Siege of Onoguris (554 or 555AD) A Roman fortress called Archaeopolis is completely destroyed by the Persians & the Romans never use it again.
Fall of Dara (573AD) Persia conquered THE Roman fortress of the East, the Emperor goes insane.
602-628: Persian invasion & conquests of the Roman East + the Battle of Antioch (613AD)
Alot of crazy battles throughout the Roman-Persian Wars (54BC - 628AD)
@@iDeathMaximuMII I think M Antony could make that list.
Varus famously never won Manager of the Year award strangely enough…
23:14 Imagine being a legionnaire from the sunbathed coast of Tuscany, having travelled for months, walking over 1000 kilometers, enduring the elements, pain and maybe hunger just to come to this: A cold, foggy, humid and dark forest filled with barbarians who want nothing more than to kill you. Those poor Romans. 😅
This is the battle that Arminius taught Rome multiculturalism doesn't work!
We‘ve taken a whole two millennia to relearn that lesson…!
Agreed - at least in parts. I see some significant parallels in roman "multiculturalism" (which was never a thing, but I am sure you knew that before), and the results we see today. To make a long story short: it could work a whole lot better, if we - for once - really had learned from the past. By approaching the same propblem the same way: how come we would expect different results?
I was excited to hear your input on this famous Roman defeat .
Was the battle a disaster for the Imperium Romanum?
Absolutely.
Was it the worst?
Maybe, maybe not. It surely wasn't the end of R
And how did they do it?
They were organised.
And Rome never managed to take germania magna.
Even C. IVLIVS CÆSAR only went over to tell them there is no place Rome can't go. And then went back over the Rhine.
Another factor on the "mild climate" aspect is that the Mediterranean doesn't typically have oppressive humidity. I live in a city where the humidity level almost never drops below 80% and most people find that insane when they visit. The opposite extreme is deserts, and as with many other things, Italy and the surrounding areas of the Mediterranean tend to fall somewhere in between. You get high spikes of humidity, but rarely get into truly arid levels of (lack of) moisture in the air.
I loved your reaction at the beginning - "Never heard of it." Priceless. That said, I really enjoy your content and the way you handle history so precisely without denying a certain bias here and there, which is very human and relatable. And I have great respect for you not letting bias get in the way of objectivity. As a history teacher that is something I try to pass on to my students - you are allowed to have feelings of sympathy to a certain group in history but keep an open mind and try to understand different perspectives. In the end you will be able to get ever closer to "the truth" - step by step. Thank you for your work and I would really enjoy a reaction to the rest of this documentary.
In germany, Arminius is called "Hermann der Cherusker". That name was given to him at the secound half of the 18th century to create a national mythos around the battle in Teutoburg Forest.
Metatron’s reactions in the first few minutes reminded me of Geriatrix in the Asterix comics. “Alesia? Never heard of it! I don’t even know where it is! So there!”
The V Alaudae was not annihilated as stated. However it did lose it's eagle which was later recovered. This is just another BBC programme pushing an agenda and does not really do justice to the subject. The fact is that it was not three complete legions that made that fateful final journey. Varus is critised for splitting up his force in enemy territory by Dio. The legions were vastly outnumbered in unfavorable terrain and at a considerable tactical disadvantage. However, the legions fought well. It could have been as few as 10k men making that last journey. If you want to really get a good picture of what happened read the sources. Varus was a military non entity, despite the tenancy of some of these programmes to beef him up. Arminius was not as innovative as one may think. The tribes had tried the same tactics on Drusus who was a more competent commander. All in all it was unfortunately a perfect storm for the Legions. Vale.
It looks like the History Channel back when it covered actual History.
There is a very significant word in the german language: Stolz... which means pride.
To have Stolz, to be stolz - to be proud - is one of foundations of a german mentality.
We even have the saying "Stolz ein Deutscher zu sein."... be proud to be a German.
But the etemologic roots of the word - der Stolz/the Pride - can be found in the Latin language.
When the Roman's came in contact with those barbaric German people they called them stulutus.
Stulutus. The Germanic tribes seemed to have heard this word so much... that they took it and integrated it into their own language.
Oh, Professore Metatron would you please be so kind and translate this word, for us?
I'm from north of the Limes and I never imagined being amused by salty Metatron that much.
As a German living where once the Cherusci lived, I will say the Germans started the decline of the roman empire. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Rome destroyed itself more than any enemy from outside did. in the end, it was a civil war battle in 394 AD that brought the end of the western field troops - and they never recovered.
It's also problem of roman too. They only thought about themselves. Seeing them as top of the world. When there were other empires better than or equal to Romans or which can defeat rome without even Roman understanding. Take parthia fir example. Also think about horse archery which roman was slow to adopt. Because they thought lorica segmentata was the best in the world. When persian cataphracts and Chinese and indian armour also existed. Which were better depending on the land, climate and terrain. Even modern west does the same too. They think they are the centre of the world ( now yes ). But that doesn't mean other countries aren't capable of great things.
It's also problem of roman too. They only thought about themselves. Seeing them as top of the world. When there were other empires better than Romans or which can defeat rome without even Roman knowing.
@TomWagner-sk5dm All I said the "barbarians " started it. Being stretched so far into different continents. People rebelling more and more. Seeing not everything outside the empire is awful. The Romans underestimating the capabilities of these "lesser" civilisations. Lots of things factors.
@maxtryme1508 That's definitely a part of that too.
My esteemed friend Meta, I come to you to escape the depressing state of our government and you never fail to disappoint. Thanks, you are a kind, honest and charming man, it lifts my morale. I like your humor, unlike 99.9% that don't ever even make me smile.
Very much appreciated thanks!
The Battle of Arausio was the worst Roman defeat. Its long-term socioeconomic, political, and military impact was staggering. The battle started a chain of events that led to the fall of the Republic.
Germanics also inflicted a very heavy defeat on the Romans much later in the battle of Adrianople and even their emperor was killed -Valens I think.
The Goths, who killed Valens 378 in Adrianople, allready had Decius on their "Roman emperors killed in battle" list, Battle of Abritus 251 AD.
You can see their inability to separate their modernist perspective when investigating history without contextualizing properly. This also happens when reading the writings of General Robert E Lee.
I dropped out of college years ago. But these are the best and most fun college classes I've ever taken. 👍
I was watching that particular History Hit episode thinking, oh, what will Metatron say. Still salty 😄Oh Varus! My Varus! Our fearful trip is done! (and we lost).
Hey Metatron. Regarding the 'Rejecting the Imperial System' quote, this is from an exhibition at the British museum about the Roman army. It loosely follows the career of Claudius Terentianus who was injured putting down a revolt in Alexandria.
In the Asterix comic, whenever someone asks the conquered gauls under roman occupation about Alesia, they all respond with something like "Alesia? What is this Alesia? Never heard of it! What even happened at Alesia?". That's the vibes I'm getting here.
30:12 "he'd served with the Roman armies that were attempting to put down a major revolt in the Balkans region of the empire": This sentence casually alludes to some interesting context. The revolt in question was the Great Illyrian Revolt, also called the Bato Revolt after the two men of that name who led it. While serving in Tiberius's campaign of reconquest, Arminius heard about the battle in the Volcaean Marshes, where an Illyrian force had attacked an encamped Roman force and came close to destroying it. He also saw how ruthless Rome could be to subjects which desired independence. Most probably, he resolved that Rome was too dangerous an overlord and carefully planned an ambush inspired by, and improving on, the one in the Volcaean Marshes. See:
th-cam.com/video/vbvNk-K-KYU/w-d-xo.html
British and Germanic productions about the Romans often do have an "almost nationalist" perspective where they push the idea that they were the underdogs that engaged in a brave struggle against the powerful authoritarian and all conquering Roman Empire. This is pretty common in other parts of the world like East Asia, where Korea and Vietnam have similar perspectives talking about struggles against the powerful "Chinese" empires like the Han Dynasty (that controlled parts of modern day Korea, Vietnam, Central Asia, etc) and the Tang Dynasty that warred in and controlled many of those territories as well.
True, but the same could be said about italians about the romans😅 and the same applies to greece. Its inherent to most cultures to place theirs above others especially in Europe because theres such a vast array of cultures in close proximity. In this case its just more like friendly competition.
I’ve never thought of it like that before, but I can certainly see your point when it comes to the British productions about Queen Boudicca. I guess I don’t feel like I’m ethnically or culturally connected enough to the ancient Britons to feel any semblance of nationalist sentiment towards them. If suppose if I was Welsh, Cornish, or Pictish-Scottish I might, but I’m not.
I can assure you that no contemporary documentary-at least from a serious source such as German TV-would have any "nationalist" sub-tome. Particularly when it comes to the Teuteburg Battle, the first thing they show is the monument, underlining that it is in the wrong place and explaining the misconception of the battle's representation in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. They also - all - make clear that Arminius eventually was killed by his own people.
@twocents-Thomas-Zadro Historical documentaries would care more about accuracy. However, German war drama TV shows about the Romans such as Barbarians (2020) are very inaccurate and have those almost nationalist subtones (eg. Germanic tribes are the primitiive good guys living in harmony with nature, and are underdogs resisting conquest against the authoritarian mechanical Romans). The show was criticized for reviving 19th century nationalist narratives.
@metatronyt
First time I have to disagree with you here. The "noble savages resist evil colonialists" kind of angle is not so much a modernist interpretation but goes back in German literature at least 200 years, probably more. And at the risk of incurring your wrath, I'd suggest that for the longest time historiography and fiction were somewhat too soft on the Roman Empire. For the longest time, the tenor was like "the Romans spread civilisation, hooray!". Well, yeah, they did that. But not from the generosity of their hearts. And untold numbers died because of it. Kiernan and others have even gone so far as to call Caesar's conquest of Gaul (pursued for rather selfish reasons) the first genocide in recorded history.
The british copied them,mind they starved boer women and children,pepperidge farm remembers
In Germany Arminius is known as "Hermann".
Your feeling is correct Metatron.
I have not seen any wrist band on the roman LARP soldiers
Hearing "hey noble ones!" Warms my heart and brightens my day every single time i hear it.
A second episode would be great. It's one thing to watch a documentary myself, but having another person's input on the info being presented makes it that bit better.
Have you ever read Asterix? "I don't know Alesia! I don't know where Alsia is! NOBODY KNOWS WHERE ALSIA IS!" 😂
Yes ! Another Asterix & Obelix fan here 👍
I watched these two videos yesterday, very interesting and informative.
There are writings that when Gauls appeared in Rome the citizens would ridicule them for wearing trousers even though they were equally Roman citizens at the time
Trousers were not manly garb as far as the Romans were concerned.
@ They did get slowly adopted by the legionaries along Hadrian’s Wall
@@michaeltelson9798- Probably because it was cold up there.
that little twitching of his eye upon hearing of german forests... its so deeply ingrained in them, i love it ^^
To be fair, Germanicus did go full genocide on the tribes that did it
You know, the Teutoburg-Forest is very near where I live. Back in school, we learnd all about the epic battle of Varus and Arminius. If you ever plan to take a trip to Germany, you should definetly visit the Teutoburg-Forest. Sometimes you can still feel the magic of the ancient cheruscan druids there :D
Stop mocking him🤣
I come from that part of Denmark , wher the Teutoner clan come from , happy you do this video , great video
What history forgets to mention is that emperor Augustus really lost it after the battle of pineapple pizza forest, just a few years later.
Lorica segmentaaataa, and it levitates out the window.
In all seriousness, I would love to see a series on how Roman armor an tactics changed overtime in response to opposition from Rome's enemies.
It should be noted that this defeat was a major factor that led to Rome deciding Germania was not worth conquering, and thus the Germans keeping their culture and language. Eventually the Germans brought their language to England, where it evolved into the English we speak today. The effects are even felt to this day... with Metatron speaking on TH-cam in a GERMANIC language.
Oh damn "give me back my legions" episode!
Edit: i definitely want a 2nd episode
As a proper Roman, Metatron is still salty about Teutoburg Forest, 2000 years later 😂
Otherwise great review Metatron - keep it up!
I say the worst battle for the Roman Empire's long term survival was the ambush that killed Constantine II at Aquileia.
The battle of Frigidus in 394 was the most devastating, most of the western empire field troops were annihilated - and didn't have time to recover. ten years later the rhine border collapsed.
@TomWagner-sk5dm Have Constantine II win against Constans, and then we have a stronger ruler and 3 less civil wars-especially due to the stronger force that Constantine and Constantine impose. The Frigidus never happens if the battle of Aquileia doesn't either.
@@Pandadude-eg9li OK 🤔
It was great seeing you on FNT last night
Metatrons just salty.
At the end of the Julian/Senate civil wars it is said that Imperator Augustus had 60 legions of varying conditions under his control and rapidly reorganised and disbanded down to a list of 20. But given that in theory there was supposed to be an auxiliary force of equal or greater number present for every legion, and each town had its own Vigiles to enforce order, a total military strength of around 720,000 soldiers plus reserves and special agents.
No wonder he immediately started cost cutting. More peaceful areas like Spain and Libya got one legion to watch them, troublemakers like Britannia and Judea generally had three and the German borders could have anywhere from five to nine depending on circumstances. Particularly vast armies were rare to see deployed but like Mark Anthony against the parthians forces of 100,000 were used on occasions.
Barbarian: "Well... You conquered us... Wow ouch... Out of curiosity what is your opinion, is it because our army was incompetent or because your army was the stronger?"
Roman: "The road to success is learning the best way to exploit both."
Barbarian: "Very wise."
Fantastic episode today. I can't wait for part 2!
Teutoburg: Im romans greatest defeat
Vandals:Hold our beers😂
Those might be the worst especially thanks to their unreal luck, especially at the end with Antemius.
So....they went back to Germania to make them pay for Teutoburg Forest, but in the end, the Vandals went for Rome's jugular......and got it!
Never forget, Imperialist.......
Skyrim belongs to the Nords 😊
yes more commentary would be good when it comes to historical accuracy to have a finer point on a subject is always appreciated
To clarify, not only romans looked after their gear; "barbarians" did as well.
I think, the most devastating lost battle of Rome was the Battle of Fridigus in 394 A.D. in northern Italy. Because of the consequences. As part of a roman civil war, this battle brought the end of most of the western comitatenses, the field armies of the late roman army. the troops of the west never recovered from that casualties, and about ten years later the Rhine border collapsed and Britain was abandoned.
Greetings from Osnabrück, Lower-Saxony
Authentic barbarian reporting in
Varus, Varus. Gib mir meine Legionen wieder. Laughs in german....
Als die Römer frech geworden....
@@laisphinto6372 Zogen Sie nach Deutschlands Norden...
Even if I never have been in this area of Germany. I live 900 km inland travel to Cologne from my hometown. I wlould say this area is not wet or moist. Its just filmed after a rainy period in autumn. I would consider this area relatively dry, almost like my home Region, wich still can be green but usually not in Summer.
ohhh seeing Metatron squirm under the implication that 'The Roman Army' (i mean it was just one army) was defeated by mere barabrians (which they weren'T as the attackers were compromised of mostly roman trained auxiliaries), grandious!
One could argue, the reason why the germanics were the most successful in resisting roman rule, was simply, because they were more willign to adapt to the roman way, in quite a few aspects, whihc is not suprising, since they at that time, they did relatively recently came 'down' into continental europe from their own ancestreal ground in the north, so you may consider them not to be too much anchored in traditions yet, that those could easily be modified, to fit their needs, as well as the general development of the world aroudn them.
Also Rome was not 'defeated' by the germans, but they basically determined that the effort of overthrowing Germania Magna was just to great for the gains.
"The losses aren't worth it anymore" is what's commonly called losing. Normally you hear this nonsense about the Vietnam war where "the US didn't lose, they just chose not to win".
Sure, were the Romans willing to endure more difficulties and casualties they could have won but they weren't and so they lost.
Do we really need to sugarcoat wars because some people get offended at the idea of "their" country losing a war.
Let me simply put it this way what ancient Germany left for us to marvel at, except they once beat the Romans. Nothing else, no great works of architecture or literature, nothing and that makes rome great what we still owe them, not the battles.
@@andyforbes5553 No one here has claimed the opposite, but the context of this video is the battle, so what is your point?
@@andyforbes5553 the ancient germans went on to become the peoples who made northern europe the greatest peoples on the earth. Britain is just one example. roman britain died when they left, when the germanic peoples came it began anew, thus creating england and the rest is history. france? the franks?
@@andyforbes5553 Rome gave us concrete and the Roman Arch... and little else.
I believe that the retelling of the battle of Teutoburg has given some wrong impressions over the years, also through documentaries in many cases, especially before the site of the battle at the Harzhorn was discovered in 2008, which had subsequently led German historians and historians in general to change their views about the actual effects that the battle of Teutoburg really had on the Roman empire, since the archaeological site at Harzhorn confirmed the Roman sources about Maximinus Thrax's campaigns and in turn the Romans' capacity to march deep into Germania even well after the battle of Teutoburg and Germanicus' retaliatory campaigns. Of course with the battle of Teutoburg and - of no less importance - Tiberius' decision to not let Germanicus annex or re-annex that entire area of Germania Magna previously under Roman control, Rome was denied the possibiliy to directly control all that territory, which could have been important later in terms of less extension of the Roman limes and its fortifications (not necessarily making it better defendable though), but Germania Magna actually remained an important buffer zone for the Romans even after Teutoburg, firstly because most Germanic tribes including the Cherusci returned under Roman influence and vassalage as a result of Germanicus' expeditions and in the immediate years after Arminius' death; which is why the battle of Teutoburg is only erroneously thought to be the definitive end of Roman influence in Germania, while as an axiomatic truth Rome not only kept extending its influence over the Germanic tribes but the Roman legions marched in Germania again and again even after Germanicus' campaigns, under Claudius, Domitian, Marcus Aurelius, Maximinus Thrax, Constantine etc. completely crushing and/or forcing into submission various Germanic tribes and confederations whenever they attacked the empire, leaving aside all the times that the Romans absolutely crushed invading armies of Germanic tribes and coalitions in Roman territory of course.
From Ammianus Marcellinus, we allways knew that Romans operated east of the Rhine in later centuries. In my eyes, there is a tendency among archaeologist to make their particular discovery "the sensation of the century" in general, and the Harzhorn battle is a good example for this.
I have a major in European history, and attended colleges in the states of Iowa and California. This documentary was almost exactly how the professors taught about the battle of Teutoburg forest.
Looking forward to your upcoming Gladiator II rant. Haha
I would say the battle of canae was the greatest roman defeat
I just watched this video from history hit the other day while I was at work, love hearing your view of it
I know this Forest Battle!!
This is where they had this huge battle next to the forest and over night, the forest killed the invaders. Then the Forest went off to find the lady trees and the defenders went to fight with another kingdom against a guy with really dry/red eyes and a complex about his jewelry.
Hannibal: *chuckles*