Disassembly and replacement of a sticky 3 port divertor valve, including strip-down and explanation how they work. This is from a "Y-Plan" central heating system
Thank you for showing the inner parts of the valve and explaining how the spindle moves the plug, so that it only moves through a small angle. As you said, other videos leap straight into replacing the electrical actuator, without suggesting checking the valve spindle and the valve plug sealing first. I doubt if you needed to drain your system. Water does not flow of its own accord uphill, so if your radiators are all below the level of your 3-way valve, then no water will flow out from them when you remove the valve. From your video, the heating coil on your hot water tank is below the valve, so no water would flow from that either. Your video shows an isolating valve between the pump and the valve, so this can be used to isolate that leg. You do of course need to shut off the supply from the header tank. The only water flowing out would be the small amount in the short pipes near to the valve. The olives were working well just before you removed the valve. They will work just as well when you install the new valve. Drayton long ago learned how to put a smooth surface on the sealing faces of their valves. You are more likely to cause a problem with your hacksaw blade, scoring the pipe more than the olive can cope with. There is no need to centralise the valve spindle before removing the valve - the spindle of the new valve will self-align with the actuator anyway as the actuator is fitted. That's not a "spanner" - it's a "Grip". :-) The nuts on 22mm diameter copper pipe are 32mm Across Flats (A/F) I would suggest buying a proper spanner before starting this job. (£6.00 on ebay)
Just a quick note for any one thinking of doing this for the first time. DO IT I just did, used the original olives with jointing compound and not even a drip and my wife was amazed as I didn’t swear once.
Better still, if you have this type of valve (Drayton) and it's stiff, just take the head off, oil the spindle, work the oil in a bit by twisting the spindle until it's freed off then replace the head. Job done.
21 seconds into this video - I've diagnosed the problem (had it my self with a 2 port Drayton). The fix will take 15-20 seconds, you don't need to drain the system, you don't need to turn the electrics off and you don't need to do anything except: 1. Press the head release catch, remove the head. 2. Put oil on the valve spindle and work the spindle back and forth until freed off. 3. Replace the head unit. Job done.
Thanks for posting this video which is informative and gets to the problem well. A friend who is a master plumber (and a DJ) made a comment: "It has always been considered bad practice to fit a mechanical shut-off valve to a central heating system cold feed: these valves can be accidentally left closed, which could lead to a dangerous situation, should the primary expansion pipe become frozen in the loft, causing both the open vents to the heating system to be shut, cutting the passage of expansion water, which in turn could lead to a serious pressurisation of the whole system, probably causing the system to fail at the weakest point."
Thank you so much for putting this up. My mum's actuator (same type) fell off and you showed me how to put it on again. I am so grateful that we didn't have to get someone to visit the house in these difficult times.
This is exact same problem I have, with the same system setup (Drayton MA1). I originally replaced the motor on the MA1 but didn't realise that the valve should be easy to turn. This video confirms my suspicion and has been really helpful.. Thank you so much!! Worth noting to you tubers, to make sure the bleed valves on all the RAD's are securely tight before refilling the RADs.
Glad it helped. It's a little daunting changing the valve, I put it off for ages, but it really isn't that hard. No need to call in the experts if you are confident enough to use a spanner!
@@DJBaldPaul Totally agree, whilst there is a comment from another viewer saying "you don't need to do this, get the experts", I think its necessary to update and renew these critical parts to keep your system working. My system is NEST driven, so I need a reliable mechanism to work properly and after 20 years it could do with a change. Have the spanners and inhibitor, however I will be using the original olive and nut, mainly because they leave a solid seal, great idea on the sealant..as well.. :) I will use that trick!
Great Video! I think I have the same problem where the boiler is drawing gas when the heating is switched off. How much would this cost to replace of paying a tradesman?
Hi. I have the same model actuator. Could you please explain how to manually switch between the three heating positions? Do you have to press the black button on the side in order to move the 'sliding' lever? Thanks in advance.
You don’t need to take the olives off (compression washers as you called them) and the other you is that you don’t need to put any silicone on them either.
Apart from taking the valve head off, nothing else in this video was needed. All the valve stem needed was oiling and turning back and forth a few times until it was turning freely.
Valve body - yes - otherwise controller for hot water will do heating and controller for heating will do hot water ! If you've the same issue, just oil the valve spindle & work it free then refit the head. No need to replace a perfectly good valve that just needed some lube !
The reason your three port valve was sticking is because the system has a lot of magnetite in the water causing the spindle to seize, the whole system needs chemically cleaning out and flushing, then refilling with the correct amount of inhibitor added, if the system is not cleaned out the new valve you have fitted will also seize. There is no need to fit new olives when reusing a compression fitting, if the olives and seats are cleaned in rotational manner using scotchbrite the join will not leak. If you do remove an olive and replace it with a new one, chances are you will damage the pipe surface which will cause a leak, never add sealant to an olive as it causes problems when the joint is next taken apart, also if any bit of the sealant floats away down the pipe it will very likely clog up a radiator valve,
Good video, but note the comments of zinniasequoia. I tend not to bother with replacement olives and just add some ptfe tape around the olive before tightening. The olives are made of copper, so are malleable enough to form a seal with the old nuts, even on second fixing. I love the comment of one of the bods, "Leave it to the professionals"! Hilarious. You need a second mortgage to get a plumber out now, and there's no guarantee they will be competent!
Question.... Plumber changed my system pump because was noisy.. The new pump was fitted wrong way round! The heating was on red hot and the stat couldn't lower the temp,,, can back a few days later to swap pump around then says the 3way port needs changing? My bad luck as no issues before he fitted pump wrong or is it because of what he did caused 3way port to be damaged?
No, the plumber wanted to charge you for coming and fixing HIS mistake. So he makes up a fake fault. Most plumbers do tricks like this. Others are worse and vandalise systems. I moved into a flat - 2 rads didn't work sink & bath cold taps were loose ! Sink tap was just above stopcock - so when water turned on, you instantly got wet. They'd use that tap just for that purpose.
How often do these things need replacing because my rental house seems to need a new one every 3 years or so - I feel like am being ripped off! It wasn't this frequent of an issue when I was living at the house.
Thank you for taking the time to do this. Much appreciated. I’ve always been suspicious of the valve as radiators heat up when I only have hot water on. Did you drain the system from a radiator?
No I have a drain cock, you should have one on your system somewhere. You could try taking the head off and turning the spindle to the hot water position and see if your rads stay cool? If the motor in the head is burnt out it might not be able to turn the spindle, or your valve might be stiff like mine was. But if you take the head off you can check if the motor works by getting your boiler to call for hot water or heating.
"professionals" - I've seen some of those professionals... £120/h to rattle a wrench around and suck their teeth "oooh, you have a big problem here!". All people should be able to learn how to change a valve in their own house!
Thank you for showing the inner parts of the valve and explaining how the spindle moves the plug, so that it only moves through a small angle. As you said, other videos leap straight into replacing the electrical actuator, without suggesting checking the valve spindle and the valve plug sealing first.
I doubt if you needed to drain your system. Water does not flow of its own accord uphill, so if your radiators are all below the level of your 3-way valve, then no water will flow out from them when you remove the valve. From your video, the heating coil on your hot water tank is below the valve, so no water would flow from that either. Your video shows an isolating valve between the pump and the valve, so this can be used to isolate that leg. You do of course need to shut off the supply from the header tank. The only water flowing out would be the small amount in the short pipes near to the valve.
The olives were working well just before you removed the valve. They will work just as well when you install the new valve. Drayton long ago learned how to put a smooth surface on the sealing faces of their valves. You are more likely to cause a problem with your hacksaw blade, scoring the pipe more than the olive can cope with.
There is no need to centralise the valve spindle before removing the valve - the spindle of the new valve will self-align with the actuator anyway as the actuator is fitted.
That's not a "spanner" - it's a "Grip". :-) The nuts on 22mm diameter copper pipe are 32mm Across Flats (A/F) I would suggest buying a proper spanner before starting this job. (£6.00 on ebay)
Just a quick note for any one thinking of doing this for the first time.
DO IT I just did, used the original olives with jointing compound and not even a drip and my wife was amazed as I didn’t swear once.
Better still, if you have this type of valve (Drayton) and it's stiff, just take the head off, oil the spindle, work the oil in a bit by twisting the spindle until it's freed off then replace the head. Job done.
As a plumber for 13yrs i have never replaced olive unless its really damaged just put bit off jointing compound or ptfe.
21 seconds into this video - I've diagnosed the problem (had it my self with a 2 port Drayton).
The fix will take 15-20 seconds, you don't need to drain the system, you don't need to turn the electrics off and you don't need to do anything except:
1. Press the head release catch, remove the head.
2. Put oil on the valve spindle and work the spindle back and forth until freed off.
3. Replace the head unit.
Job done.
What type of oil?
Did you not hear him say he used WD40 at first but that solution doesn't work forever?
I know it’s an old video, but for the future repairs/replacements, you can get yourself olive puller, saves a lot of time
Thanks for posting this video which is informative and gets to the problem well. A friend who is a master plumber (and a DJ) made a comment:
"It has always been considered bad practice to fit a mechanical shut-off valve to a central heating system cold feed: these valves can be accidentally left closed, which could lead to a dangerous situation, should the primary expansion pipe become frozen in the loft, causing both the open vents to the heating system to be shut, cutting the passage of expansion water, which in turn could lead to a serious pressurisation of the whole system, probably causing the system to fail at the weakest point."
This video helped me loads and now I understand how these parts work , well done thanks.
remove head, remove circlip on valve pin, gently tap down, wd40, rotate a few times, pull pin up into original position, refit circlip. job done.
Another one not listening. He said he used WD40 but it's not a permanent fix.
Thank you so much for putting this up. My mum's actuator (same type) fell off and you showed me how to put it on again. I am so grateful that we didn't have to get someone to visit the house in these difficult times.
Tu
This is exact same problem I have, with the same system setup (Drayton MA1). I originally replaced the motor on the MA1 but didn't realise that the valve should be easy to turn. This video confirms my suspicion and has been really helpful.. Thank you so much!! Worth noting to you tubers, to make sure the bleed valves on all the RAD's are securely tight before refilling the RADs.
Glad it helped. It's a little daunting changing the valve, I put it off for ages, but it really isn't that hard. No need to call in the experts if you are confident enough to use a spanner!
@@DJBaldPaul Totally agree, whilst there is a comment from another viewer saying "you don't need to do this, get the experts", I think its necessary to update and renew these critical parts to keep your system working. My system is NEST driven, so I need a reliable mechanism to work properly and after 20 years it could do with a change. Have the spanners and inhibitor, however I will be using the original olive and nut, mainly because they leave a solid seal, great idea on the sealant..as well.. :) I will use that trick!
@@DM43685 Good luck using the existing olives, I didn't want to risk it.
All it needed was a few drops of oil on the spindle working in - then refit the head once the spindle's been freed off.
@@DM43685 They're right - you don't need to throw stuff out cos you didn't oil it.
Great Video! I think I have the same problem where the boiler is drawing gas when the heating is switched off. How much would this cost to replace of paying a tradesman?
Hi. I have the same model actuator. Could you please explain how to manually switch between the three heating positions? Do you have to press the black button on the side in order to move the 'sliding' lever? Thanks in advance.
Yep that's it.
You can't. It's either in the unpowered position or the mid position - by the lever.
I learnt more here thanks ,
You don’t need to take the olives off (compression washers as you called them) and the other you is that you don’t need to put any silicone on them either.
Apart from taking the valve head off, nothing else in this video was needed. All the valve stem needed was oiling and turning back and forth a few times until it was turning freely.
You can put the valve back on 2 ways does it matter which
Valve body - yes - otherwise controller for hot water will do heating and controller for heating will do hot water !
If you've the same issue, just oil the valve spindle & work it free then refit the head. No need to replace a perfectly good valve that just needed some lube !
The reason your three port valve was sticking is because the system has a lot of magnetite in the water causing the spindle to seize, the whole system needs chemically cleaning out and flushing, then refilling with the correct amount of inhibitor added, if the system is not cleaned out the new valve you have fitted will also seize. There is no need to fit new olives when reusing a compression fitting, if the olives and seats are cleaned in rotational manner using scotchbrite the join will not leak. If you do remove an olive and replace it with a new one, chances are you will damage the pipe surface which will cause a leak, never add sealant to an olive as it causes problems when the joint is next taken apart, also if any bit of the sealant floats away down the pipe it will very likely clog up a radiator valve,
Why drain the system? Bung the tank feed and vent pipe.
I didn't have a bung kit at the time.
Do they know safe isolation of electrics before they start opening up junction boxes?
Good video, but note the comments of zinniasequoia. I tend not to bother with replacement olives and just add some ptfe tape around the olive before tightening. The olives are made of copper, so are malleable enough to form a seal with the old nuts, even on second fixing. I love the comment of one of the bods, "Leave it to the professionals"! Hilarious. You need a second mortgage to get a plumber out now, and there's no guarantee they will be competent!
The correct repair in this video - was to simply oil the valve spindle and work it free. Then put the head back on.
do you do any work in london?
Where is my valve? Diesel oil heater buderus Logan g115. Don't see that plastic box only a red water button red flywheel??
Question....
Plumber changed my system pump because was noisy..
The new pump was fitted wrong way round! The heating was on red hot and the stat couldn't lower the temp,,, can back a few days later to swap pump around then says the 3way port needs changing?
My bad luck as no issues before he fitted pump wrong or is it because of what he did caused 3way port to be damaged?
No, the plumber wanted to charge you for coming and fixing HIS mistake. So he makes up a fake fault. Most plumbers do tricks like this. Others are worse and vandalise systems. I moved into a flat - 2 rads didn't work sink & bath cold taps were loose ! Sink tap was just above stopcock - so when water turned on, you instantly got wet. They'd use that tap just for that purpose.
How often do these things need replacing because my rental house seems to need a new one every 3 years or so - I feel like am being ripped off! It wasn't this frequent of an issue when I was living at the house.
They should last a lot longer than that, many years in fact.
@@DJBaldPaul thanks. Guess I am being ripped off then .... sigh
You need to clean the system. Probably a power flush. If you don’t the valve gets gunged up and will fail as I recently found out.
@@ambydaly5713 ahhh so you think that might be the issue..... how often should that be done?
Hi. My system is exactly like the one you're replacing. How do I drain the system to prevent water spillage. The boiler tank is located upstairs.
Search your pipework for a drain cock, it's normally on a downstairs radiator at the lowest point in the system.
Why do you want to drain your system ?
Thank you for taking the time to do this. Much appreciated. I’ve always been suspicious of the valve as radiators heat up when I only have hot water on. Did you drain the system from a radiator?
No I have a drain cock, you should have one on your system somewhere. You could try taking the head off and turning the spindle to the hot water position and see if your rads stay cool? If the motor in the head is burnt out it might not be able to turn the spindle, or your valve might be stiff like mine was. But if you take the head off you can check if the motor works by getting your boiler to call for hot water or heating.
paulroberts69 is it okay to still drain them through the radiator?
If you'd had an engineer to that problem, they'd have fixed the valve in situ in 20 seconds !
how much did you charge the customer
Ever had one leak when you do that?
Nope
No need to cut the olives but use a sealant latuise
very good
No, terrible ! the 20 second repair here is - take the head off, oil the spindle, work it free, refit the head. Job done.
Hi, I'm trying to change my valve, but how do I stop the water flow/ drain the system?x
Did you drain down your system, there should be a drain valve/tap somewhere?
Why do you want to change it ?
Thans very much
Always replace olives .
U can get an adjustable spanner and make it the size of the nut and slide it and tap them off . Easy
Mr Spoonz if the olives are not damaged don't remove them
No need to remove those olives, just wrap some ptfe tape around the pipe/olive joint.
Boss white um
Bizarre comments !
are you trying to convince your average diy person to start tampering with there central system?
Looking at it the system needs a good flush out
Who soldered that elbow on the valve, maybe the first year apprentice. Truly awful.
Jesus what's the hole in the floor ? Your loose your cat down there !
Haha, that was left over from a floor standing boiler about 20 years ago, the flu used to come up through there. :-)
You could of got away with the old olives along with some compound
He could have simply oiled the valve spindle, worked it free and refit the head. 20 seconds job.
No - you don’t need to change the valve if it’s seized! Leave it to the professionals.
Gobshite
"professionals" - I've seen some of those professionals... £120/h to rattle a wrench around and suck their teeth "oooh, you have a big problem here!". All people should be able to learn how to change a valve in their own house!
Your not allowed to have an isolation valve on the feed/expansion pipe.
@@todorkolev7565 £120 that’s very cheap.
@@michaelstratton4101and yet somehow doesn't sound like a little money at all, does it?