i ride a 2017 chameleon. this thing has gone through so many revisions that i am never bored. right now it’s super aggressive with a mx wheel sizing and a 160mm fox float.
As an ex-trek mechanic at a trek dealer your assumptions about trek is true. They are so concerned with selling in volume that their bikes often come in requiring some serious maintenance to be sellable. But their frames are always super tough. Furthermore, Trek’s model for selling bikes in a store is also oriented to get people to buy quickly which I think leads people into getting the wrong size.
This series was a blast to watch. I’m a scout owner but I did like the Bird as well. It sounds like I might need to pick up some Berd wheels if they make that much of a difference in ride quality. Keep up the good work.
Absolutely the best comparison video ever produced...I must say, of all the big brands through the years, Trek always seemed to ride heavier than they actually weigh compared to Specialized which seems more compliant, nimble and easier to manual.
This is by far my favorite video of yours! Even though I already have my dream hardtail built, I still enjoy seeing and hearing about all the other makes, models, and your comparisons of them. The trials you put them through have also been super fun! Cheers Evan!!
Norco is a big bike maker in Canada, lots of Norco around here. The Torrent and the Fluid would be up for testing here. Their current XC is the Revolver.
I was watching this for the Trek Roscoe review and now I am quite worried. Would love to see the Medium tested as that's what I was looking at. Love the videos :-)
Loved this series! For the steel one next, please shoot a message to Radical Bike Co about their new Grim Ripper! They're trying to get the word out about the brand and the ripper looks like a better version of the Big Al, but also steel. Stoked for future content, cheers!
Hey Evan! I actually preferred the chest cam and front camera setup more than the multiple angles. seeing the outside view of the jumps is cool, but I like hearing your live commentary more on the chest cam. You definitely seem more relaxed and natural without someone else filming you. Hope my ramblings helps you out! Also thanks for doing this series its been super helpful in my own research into finding a good hardtail. I currently ride a giant talon I've jerry-rigged to be somewhat decent through some pretty major upgrades. But I've decided its time to let go of the money pit and I'm getting ready to dive into a serious bike. I hope the next season of hardtail party includes some steel framed bikes. I really like birds steel frames. Anyways thanks and ride safe!
Thanks Ethan! I've messed with a giant talon and it's a good entry level bike to tinker with! Best of luck finding a good Hardtail and thanks for the feedback on the chest cam, I feel the same way
Good series. Thank you. I own a Rocky Mountain Growler, Norco Fluid HT (my bikepacking rig), and now a Banshee Paradox. The Paradox is my main ride these days. These bikes are super fun and reasonable price for entry in the mountain bike market.
Great review series. Frame/bike compliance is influenced by the actual frame size (larger frames will be softer than the same model in a smaller sizes) and rider size (larger/heavier and/or riders who mash will need a stiffer frame).
I have been budget building a Redline D600. The geometry specs are crazy but it climbs like a goat, shreds singletrack and flows over chunk. I'm 6'1 and it's a 17". The top tube length is 595! The seat tube angle is 73.3, the head tube angle is 71.3 and the BB hight is 309 and the chainstay is 450. I'd love to see you max build one. I love how nice this bike rides for something that was marketed for entry-level riders.
Hard tails are awesome but I prefer them in 27.5 & love my custom Marley. It’s more focused on what it does great & not trying to do it all. If I want 29er then I’m going full suspension with my custom built Izzo. No sense in blurring the lines. Nimble & clickable on flow = 27.5 hard tail & 29er full sus for the rest. Keep it up! I’m curious to see how ur rsd experiments go. Heading back to Bentonville the 2nd week of Oct, maybe we’ll see u on the trails.
Yeti A R C is the perfect hardtail. My next conquest. Presently enjoying a WeThePeople BMX/Klunker 27.5” s.s. disc brakes works fine on the Arizona Trail.
It was definitely a series to remember, followed by the ending part of the hardtail quest which I loved seeing. Evans since Marin announced the Marin San Quentin 29 inch version would you do a video about the bike, since Matt Jones, and would you be willing to try it out.
To be honest this series convinced me to chop in my 2022 ragley big al and go for the 2023 🤓 all the things you said about the original ragley i was also thinking , low stack short reach steep head angle , i also ride a nukeproof reactor so going from one bike to the other these things were all really noticeable. Ive had the 2023 just under a week now and absolutely love it so thanks for the indepth ride review 😎👍
Heck yeah Michael! What color Ragley did you go with? Ragley's are awesome cuz they're just so cheap for the frame so it's perfect for people who like to tinker with their set ups
What a fantastic series! Enjoyed every video 🤠 Man I am so stoked for the steel series 🔥there are so many small brands making steel hardtails. I hope to see at least one or two from a US, UK, or European small brand. I would recommend the Ferrum NVHT for a US frame, the Pole hardtail which is made in Finland, and you’ve got to try out a Marino which are made in Peru (very inexpensive for a handmade frame). Man… did I say I was exited?! 🤜
Loved the series, you did a great job. I’m a hardtail only guy. I ride a custom frame up built chromag stylus. I ride it everywhere, local trails, downhill parks and even the skatepark and local dirt jumps. So awesome to see hardtail getting some love in the hobby right now. If you wanted to check out the stylus or any other bike from chromag, I’m sure you’d love them. Keep rocking and rolling man!!
Geometry: Seat tube angle is a factor, but really does not make any difference if the seat position is the same distance to the center of the crank. Head tube angle affects steering and stability. Stem length also affects steering feel, (not sure how to describe it yet though, but shorter stems I think tend to turn quicker, as there is less movement per degree of wheel turn). Then you have top tube length and chain stay length. Top tube length can be offset by steering stem length, and like the seat tube angle, the chain stay length can be offset by the seat position (forward or rearward). With different length stems, and the seat adjustable in relation to the pedals, you can make different frames feel quite similar, I would say.
@@earthlingdamien I thought of buying one before Chain Reaction went under, but the fact that I couldn't run plus tires in the rear kept me from getting it.
I learnt more about hardtails in one video, than a full week scouting the internet for info. Thank you ! Subed ! + video editing, script, pace is top quality !
This would be interesting if you used Ti hardtail vs budget steel frames. I’m sure you could find some $4K Ti frames v/s $400 steel frames. I would also recommend wider rims for your hardtail’s. I30mm is minimal, i35 or i40 for 29x2.6” tires. Personally I use 780mmx31.8 bars or my hardtail 35mm is too stiff for me a small guy 150 pounds. I love the feel of a carbon bar that has some compliance.
Only here for the great content as I don’t see me ever buying an aluminum hardtail again. Just never rode an aluminum bike I loved. Which reminds me I need to sell the 2022 Big Al that’s sitting in my garage! Ordered a very boutique, custom geometry steel hardtail. Most comfortable hardtail I’ve ever owned, but I can’t exactly say it was money well spent :) Thanks for the awesome channel!
I concur that you should have ridden a medium Trek. That size choice is one of your controls, like a science experiment. That said, It's great to hear thoughts on all of those different bikes. As you say, it really does come down to the trails you like and your riding style. If you want to carry a lot of speed, a longer bike is good. If you want agility, a shorter bike is better. Short chainstays help to get over the back tire, that can help with moving the bike around in the air, or keeping traction on the back tire for climbing. But the reach can also affect that. There is a saying about being on or in the bike. Basically the difference between a 27.5 or 29 in bike. So I think for my style, the Banshee would be awesome! But it suits my riding style. I also like climbing, so a high saddle, or forward helps to keep weight forward. When climbing steep trails, swinging weight forward keeps the front tire down. But short stays keep weight over the back tire. The down side, is that without the correct reach, some will feel cramped. Not to say that's how the banshee feels. Geo and rider preference.
Was a 29er hater untill i rode a modern hardtail 29er , way more capable than i had thought. When it gets rowdy you have to think about lines more on the fly and never expected to get that buzz again after 30 years of riding MTB.
I recently experienced that 29er feel with the Hardtail winner. I'm not sure if the brands do something with geometry to mask the 29er feel. But it's a ton of fun
I really wanted to get a Rocky Mtn Growler 50 from my local bike shop, but they don’t offer it in SRAM or even just a frame. I am to the point that I won’t buy a bike with Shimano drivetrain.
Thats friggin awesome Evans,,, thank you so much for putting this together and taking your time and efforts too perform all that work... obviously your old school bmx,,, im a xc runner/ up hill mountain bike dude at 60 years young... i swith over too a Giant xc SLR which is the lightest in its class in aluminum at 26 ish lbs running tubeless 29'ers it would fit in between all your numbers some where,,, I'm the same as you and other... Make the bike fit our ergonomics ,,, i find that slack comes from wheel size,,, tires,,, spokes and rims,,, air pressure... Wheel combinations make or break my rides... i like medium pressure tires for long steep Rocky climbs ,,, more air pressure for distance ,,, less pressure for decents... basically,,, medium/ low for all round ... i really enjoyed your take on this... excellent class on your part... my f.s. is great for mountain bike parks,,, my xc hard tail is my main all rounder for the steep climbs on the Rock Mountain Range in Western Canada... I can't wait too see more of your videos... Don
For steel check out the Kona Honzo ESD for a budget friendly mass produced frames, maybe a Chromag Rootdown too. To go along with some of the small batch producers
Hard core Hard tails next year, like a Norco Torrent with 160 mm fork? Or more all-arounders once once Specialized and Santa Cruz come back in stock? Great series!
You put a lot of time and energy into testing but it's worth it. very interesting. wow! really nice, it's all a different trail, it's perfect for testing all aspects of a bike.
The reason why the nukeproof and the ragley have to same bar height is because of the head angle. The steeper Head angle keeps the wheel more under the bike.
I was typing that you should have done a head to head test of the top two and while listening I heard you did. Great job on the series!! I said id send you my Chameleon for free, but its a large. ( i am 5-9 like you) Medium is probably to small for some frames. The scout being one.
I got a bad ass Orbea Laufey 2022 with a RockShox 140mm fork. Although I really loved it doing some Black diamond trails out here in SoCal I wanted to go Full Suspension and wow my buddies were not wrong. It is definitely night and day. Will be using both from time to time moving forward!
@@joshuaallswang8016 I'm usually out here in Turnbull canyon since it's closest to me. But El Prieto in Pasadena if you want to get a good ride in. Hacienda Heights Schabarum trail. Then of course there's Laguna Beach. Check them all out bro. Dope rides to be had!
Awesome video man. It's tough rating bikes. I'd love for you to ride and review a fully machined full suspension aluminum mountain bike by Ministry Cycles called the Psalm 150. I figured you'd love to, especially since it's also raw aluminum. It looks bad ass as well 👍👍 and let's not forget. Affordable !!!!
I’m glad I accidentally discovered your channel , I’m the same height as you and have owned several hard tails, and currently ride one, how ever shows what I no ,, I’m British, live in England 🇬🇧 uk and never heard of Bird , but there you go , good work and videos , Shane uk 🇬🇧 cheers
Very cool. I would personally love to try the Nukeproof, since I probably would love the more compliant frame compared to the RSD, but it is hard to find in Norway, so I will just keep searching.
15 years ago it was the GT timberline 2.0 with a disk upgrade and, slowly updating everying beyone the frame......... it was stolen and, i got it back AGAIN its going onto its 3rd rebuild. this time as a Ebike
Weird as I thought the British designed frames would do well if tested in the UK, local bike brands tuned for local trails but seems with Bird and Nukeproof, they work well over in the US as well. TBH the Ragley range tends to make more sense in steel and it's translation into ride quality. (Well that's what I've found on back to back tedting)
No titanium? I tried a titanium hard tail >20 years ago (Bontrager RaceTi) and never looked back. Titanium has the absolute best feel and the springy feel when you're climbing is fabulous! RaceTi has been now been converted to a superb gravel bike, as Titanium lasts several lifetimes. I am using an upgraded Moots YBB for my main XC ride -- 27.5" wheels and Fox Kashima shocks with upgraded components round it out into a fantastic ride! I'm also building up a Mongoose Pro Titanium, one of the best frames ever made.
Idk if low bb helps on jumps but higher handlebars do and with the low bb your handlebars are relatively higher to your stance even if the stack is the same.
Really cool video and I love how you tested everything. Why did you not test it with the included components? I mean especially with the Roscoe, it literally makes no sense to change everything on that bike especially
If you really do build a Banshee up for an Enduro build run it mullet and put a 50 mm rise bar on it band just roll them forward a little bit. That will open up the front and lower your bottom bracket and make it a little more nimble
I wish you would have tested the Norco Torrent. I have one and have always wondered how it stacks with the other hard tails. Don't get me wrong, this type of test is subjective to your riding preference. I love my Norco and could not see myself riding another HT.
This was a really great series on many great bikes. I do think you ditched the Trek based on perception (worried it was too big, and actually feeling it on trail) and on assumptions about a big company). I feel you switched from tech and ride feel to perceptions and assumptions. BUT its your money, time and channel so hats off to a very good watch.
@@EvansMTBSaga for sure! Picked up a Stoic 3 for $1100 + free shipping. Feels like a ton of bike for that price- nice 29” wheels/tires, nice aggressive geo, 140mm RockShox 35 air fork, 1x12 and a dropper. Glad I ordered it last week as it’s no longer on sale
Great series but I feel like you did an injustice to the Trek Roscoe. From the review it sounds like the bike was too big. I believe you even mentioned this a couple times. Would really like to see another review with the medium size.
There was just so many factors that pointed to not testing it. The regular medium was 440mm reach, and I figured out that 440 is just too small. The ML that I tested was 455, and the frame that won was 450. So it wasn't too far off. Plus all the other talking points I mentioned about Trek in the post episode commentary
@@EvansMTBSaga thanks for the reply! As a Roscoe owner that downsized I’m a little disappointed but understand. Maybe you could do a review on RAD sizing based on the book Dialed be Lee McCormack. That’s how I set my bike up and I think it really hits the nail on the head. Thanks again for all the content! Really like the channel.
you've gotta test the chameleon. I have the 2022 model and I built it up with a pike ultimate and industry nine wheels. It's something special i'm not gonna lie
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i ride a 2017 chameleon. this thing has gone through so many revisions that i am never bored. right now it’s super aggressive with a mx wheel sizing and a 160mm fox float.
As an ex-trek mechanic at a trek dealer your assumptions about trek is true. They are so concerned with selling in volume that their bikes often come in requiring some serious maintenance to be sellable. But their frames are always super tough. Furthermore, Trek’s model for selling bikes in a store is also oriented to get people to buy quickly which I think leads people into getting the wrong size.
I have the 2023 trek Rascoe 7. Love it. I just switched the bars to PNW bars with a slight higher rise. Works great for jumping and flow
This series was a blast to watch. I’m a scout owner but I did like the Bird as well. It sounds like I might need to pick up some Berd wheels if they make that much of a difference in ride quality. Keep up the good work.
Absolutely the best comparison video ever produced...I must say, of all the big brands through the years, Trek always seemed to ride heavier than they actually weigh compared to Specialized which seems more compliant, nimble and easier to manual.
Id love to see the Marin San Quentin Frame tested if you decide to ever continue this.
I like the way you did this. Folks get too bogged down in specs and numbers when ride feel is totally subjective. Great work!
Awesome series. I don't think even pinkbike goes this deep lol. Thanks for the fun times you definitely put in a lot of effort and hard work.
Pinkbike isn't the same without Mike Levy.
I will miss him, wont be the same. He made everything a must watch.
This is by far my favorite video of yours! Even though I already have my dream hardtail built, I still enjoy seeing and hearing about all the other makes, models, and your comparisons of them. The trials you put them through have also been super fun!
Cheers Evan!!
Norco is a big bike maker in Canada, lots of Norco around here. The Torrent and the Fluid would be up for testing here. Their current XC is the Revolver.
A great ending for a great series! Thank you Evan so much for putting this together! Very enjoyable content, you are on your way to the very top! 🚀
I was watching this for the Trek Roscoe review and now I am quite worried. Would love to see the Medium tested as that's what I was looking at.
Love the videos :-)
Where is squid word 😂😂
Loved this series! For the steel one next, please shoot a message to Radical Bike Co about their new Grim Ripper! They're trying to get the word out about the brand and the ripper looks like a better version of the Big Al, but also steel. Stoked for future content, cheers!
I'll check into that!
That or the chili dog! Lol
I have the Radical chili dog and a Stanton Switchback Ti…both amazing.
I was bummed to find out that all their frames are sold out and their complete builds are crap Shimano Deore. Pass
Great series
Best hardtail I’ve had and I know it’s a carbon frame lol
2023 Ibis DV9 is sick af 66.5° 75° 425mm chain stays
Goldilocks GEO
Real rider, real reviews, great info and advice. Excellent channel.
Thanks man!n
Can't imagine the hours spent editing this video. Awesome content dude
Hey Evan! I actually preferred the chest cam and front camera setup more than the multiple angles. seeing the outside view of the jumps is cool, but I like hearing your live commentary more on the chest cam. You definitely seem more relaxed and natural without someone else filming you. Hope my ramblings helps you out! Also thanks for doing this series its been super helpful in my own research into finding a good hardtail. I currently ride a giant talon I've jerry-rigged to be somewhat decent through some pretty major upgrades. But I've decided its time to let go of the money pit and I'm getting ready to dive into a serious bike. I hope the next season of hardtail party includes some steel framed bikes. I really like birds steel frames. Anyways thanks and ride safe!
Thanks Ethan! I've messed with a giant talon and it's a good entry level bike to tinker with! Best of luck finding a good Hardtail and thanks for the feedback on the chest cam, I feel the same way
It's the berd wheels! It does really help level compliance for all frames. And yes tire psi can be huge!
I love the Berd wheels so much ahha
Loved this series man, great production and a ton of fun to watch. Keep up the good content!!! Teach us some BMX skills soon! 😃
Thanks Pierce! I really enjoyed it too
The Bird was my favorite of the group. Actually got me thinking of building up another hardtail (gears this time) after watching this series.
Good series. Thank you. I own a Rocky Mountain Growler, Norco Fluid HT (my bikepacking rig), and now a Banshee Paradox. The Paradox is my main ride these days. These bikes are super fun and reasonable price for entry in the mountain bike market.
Great review series.
Frame/bike compliance is influenced by the actual frame size (larger frames will be softer than the same model in a smaller sizes) and rider size (larger/heavier and/or riders who mash will need a stiffer frame).
If you like nice jumpy hardtails give a Marin San Quinten 3 a go. Nice slack front, low bb and feels like a big BMX. I love it.
I have been budget building a Redline D600. The geometry specs are crazy but it climbs like a goat, shreds singletrack and flows over chunk. I'm 6'1 and it's a 17". The top tube length is 595! The seat tube angle is 73.3, the head tube angle is 71.3 and the BB hight is 309 and the chainstay is 450. I'd love to see you max build one. I love how nice this bike rides for something that was marketed for entry-level riders.
Hard tails are awesome but I prefer them in 27.5 & love my custom Marley. It’s more focused on what it does great & not trying to do it all. If I want 29er then I’m going full suspension with my custom built Izzo. No sense in blurring the lines. Nimble & clickable on flow = 27.5 hard tail & 29er full sus for the rest. Keep it up! I’m curious to see how ur rsd experiments go. Heading back to Bentonville the 2nd week of Oct, maybe we’ll see u on the trails.
this series was fun. I would like to recommend dartmoor primal for the next series. cheaper and more durable than most of the reviewed frames.
Nukeproof fan boi here 😊 Great video! I knew the Trek wouldn't do as well as the others.
Yeti A R C is the perfect hardtail.
My next conquest.
Presently enjoying a WeThePeople BMX/Klunker 27.5” s.s. disc brakes works fine on the Arizona Trail.
It was definitely a series to remember, followed by the ending part of the hardtail quest which I loved seeing. Evans since Marin announced the Marin San Quentin 29 inch version would you do a video about the bike, since Matt Jones, and would you be willing to try it out.
To be honest this series convinced me to chop in my 2022 ragley big al and go for the 2023 🤓 all the things you said about the original ragley i was also thinking , low stack short reach steep head angle , i also ride a nukeproof reactor so going from one bike to the other these things were all really noticeable. Ive had the 2023 just under a week now and absolutely love it so thanks for the indepth ride review 😎👍
Heck yeah Michael! What color Ragley did you go with? Ragley's are awesome cuz they're just so cheap for the frame so it's perfect for people who like to tinker with their set ups
@@EvansMTBSaga I got the blue one like you had 😎 chain reaction/ wiggle here in the UK had them down to £279 which is a steal
What a fantastic series! Enjoyed every video 🤠
Man I am so stoked for the steel series 🔥there are so many small brands making steel hardtails. I hope to see at least one or two from a US, UK, or European small brand. I would recommend the Ferrum NVHT for a US frame, the Pole hardtail which is made in Finland, and you’ve got to try out a Marino which are made in Peru (very inexpensive for a handmade frame). Man… did I say I was exited?! 🤜
Pole is from Finland, not Poland 🙂. However their Taival hardtail frame is made in Taiwan.
@@palashpulsar whoops! I will correct my comment, thank you 👍
Pässilä rämäkkä is very good hardtail from Finland.
Loved the series, you did a great job. I’m a hardtail only guy. I ride a custom frame up built chromag stylus. I ride it everywhere, local trails, downhill parks and even the skatepark and local dirt jumps. So awesome to see hardtail getting some love in the hobby right now. If you wanted to check out the stylus or any other bike from chromag, I’m sure you’d love them. Keep rocking and rolling man!!
Thanks Ethan! Hardtail only is bold but I've definitely considered it!
I have Devinci Kobain 29, love it, its my big BMX, then I got a Specialized P3 for jumpin, and still ride my trusty BSD Passenger V2 BMX.
Geometry: Seat tube angle is a factor, but really does not make any difference if the seat position is the same distance to the center of the crank. Head tube angle affects steering and stability. Stem length also affects steering feel, (not sure how to describe it yet though, but shorter stems I think tend to turn quicker, as there is less movement per degree of wheel turn). Then you have top tube length and chain stay length. Top tube length can be offset by steering stem length, and like the seat tube angle, the chain stay length can be offset by the seat position (forward or rearward). With different length stems, and the seat adjustable in relation to the pedals, you can make different frames feel quite similar, I would say.
Excellent series. It's inspiring me to try a different 27.5" frame.
You should try the Ragley Mmmbop.
@@earthlingdamien I thought of buying one before Chain Reaction went under, but the fact that I couldn't run plus tires in the rear kept me from getting it.
@@leokuo7127 Officially you can go up to 2.6", I have a 2.25 in the rear and there's plenty of room left so you may be able to go wider than 2.6
Ride a San Quentin! They now sell a 29er one too!
I learnt more about hardtails in one video, than a full week scouting the internet for info. Thank you ! Subed !
+ video editing, script, pace is top quality !
Thanks Beau!!!
I have a Roscoe medium large and I'm 5'8 and average rider so far I love it and your right about it being a bit hard on you in the chunky bits
Absolutely loved this video. Thanks for putting it all together. Super enjoyable all round
Great video. Nice varieties. Do the MTB bikes come with foot pedals??? If not, which brands do?
This would be interesting if you used Ti hardtail vs budget steel frames. I’m sure you could find some $4K Ti frames v/s $400 steel frames. I would also recommend wider rims for your hardtail’s. I30mm is minimal, i35 or i40 for 29x2.6” tires. Personally I use 780mmx31.8 bars or my hardtail 35mm is too stiff for me a small guy 150 pounds. I love the feel of a carbon bar that has some compliance.
I just really didn't like how skinny the top tube was. Great series Sir !!!
Only here for the great content as I don’t see me ever buying an aluminum hardtail again. Just never rode an aluminum bike I loved. Which reminds me I need to sell the 2022 Big Al that’s sitting in my garage! Ordered a very boutique, custom geometry steel hardtail. Most comfortable hardtail I’ve ever owned, but I can’t exactly say it was money well spent :)
Thanks for the awesome channel!
I concur that you should have ridden a medium Trek.
That size choice is one of your controls, like a science experiment.
That said, It's great to hear thoughts on all of those different bikes.
As you say, it really does come down to the trails you like and your riding style.
If you want to carry a lot of speed, a longer bike is good.
If you want agility, a shorter bike is better.
Short chainstays help to get over the back tire, that can help with moving the bike around in the air, or keeping traction on the back tire for climbing. But the reach can also affect that.
There is a saying about being on or in the bike. Basically the difference between a 27.5 or 29 in bike.
So I think for my style, the Banshee would be awesome! But it suits my riding style.
I also like climbing, so a high saddle, or forward helps to keep weight forward. When climbing steep trails, swinging weight forward keeps the front tire down.
But short stays keep weight over the back tire.
The down side, is that without the correct reach, some will feel cramped. Not to say that's how the banshee feels.
Geo and rider preference.
great series indeed, I'm also 5'9 and my 2022 Rocky Mountain Growler 50 M is also 450mm reach
Was a 29er hater untill i rode a modern hardtail 29er , way more capable than i had thought. When it gets rowdy you have to think about lines more on the fly and never expected to get that buzz again after 30 years of riding MTB.
I recently experienced that 29er feel with the Hardtail winner. I'm not sure if the brands do something with geometry to mask the 29er feel. But it's a ton of fun
I really wanted to get a Rocky Mtn Growler 50 from my local bike shop, but they don’t offer it in SRAM or even just a frame. I am to the point that I won’t buy a bike with Shimano drivetrain.
Thats friggin awesome Evans,,, thank you so much for putting this together and taking your time and efforts too perform all that work... obviously your old school bmx,,, im a xc runner/ up hill mountain bike dude at 60 years young... i swith over too a Giant xc SLR which is the lightest in its class in aluminum at 26 ish lbs running tubeless 29'ers it would fit in between all your numbers some where,,, I'm the same as you and other... Make the bike fit our ergonomics ,,, i find that slack comes from wheel size,,, tires,,, spokes and rims,,, air pressure... Wheel combinations make or break my rides... i like medium pressure tires for long steep Rocky climbs ,,, more air pressure for distance ,,, less pressure for decents... basically,,, medium/ low for all round ... i really enjoyed your take on this... excellent class on your part... my f.s. is great for mountain bike parks,,, my xc hard tail is my main all rounder for the steep climbs on the Rock Mountain Range in Western Canada...
I can't wait too see more of your videos...
Don
For steel check out the Kona Honzo ESD for a budget friendly mass produced frames, maybe a Chromag Rootdown too. To go along with some of the small batch producers
Wow. Must be hard work making such a long video. Very nice work Evan!!!
This was and awesome video to play while I worked today! Thanks for the in-depth review, it was much appreciated!
I'm glad you liked it!!
Out of the blue cones a this unknown hardtail to topple the game board. Pretty rad.
Hard core Hard tails next year, like a Norco Torrent with 160 mm fork? Or more all-arounders once once Specialized and Santa Cruz come back in stock? Great series!
You put a lot of time and energy into testing but it's worth it. very interesting. wow! really nice, it's all a different trail, it's perfect for testing all aspects of a bike.
Put some 27.5 plus wheels and tires on that RSD and it will come alive. That's what it was made for. I know I love mine.
Hell ye Craig, awesome video. I need to get out there again soon, so fast and flowy 👌 Keep up the good work mate and never stop shedding
Thanks for the review boss.. now i can begin my list on what to buy for my bike build.
Np thanks for watching dude!
Love your videos Dude!!! I hope one day to arrive to do videos of this quality!!!!
The reason why the nukeproof and the ragley have to same bar height is because of the head angle. The steeper Head angle keeps the wheel more under the bike.
Great video. I originally just watched the Growler video and then watched this whole video. I went with RM Growler 40 as was on sale.
Heck yeah man! Those sales can be SUPER good these days. Enjoy your new ride!
Awesome video! My son and I really enjoyed watching it.
Thanks Justin! It was a ton of work and I'm glad it came together for the full 2+ hour of fun!!
I was typing that you should have done a head to head test of the top two and while listening I heard you did. Great job on the series!! I said id send you my Chameleon for free, but its a large. ( i am 5-9 like you) Medium is probably to small for some frames. The scout being one.
So many nuances. Very informative comparison. Thinking of paying for a professional bike fit.
I got a bad ass Orbea Laufey 2022 with a RockShox 140mm fork. Although I really loved it doing some Black diamond trails out here in SoCal I wanted to go Full Suspension and wow my buddies were not wrong. It is definitely night and day. Will be using both from time to time moving forward!
I’m from SoCal myself broski. Rocking a Fuel Ex full sus and a BMC XC twostroke hardtail. What trails do you normally ride? Where do you recommend?
@@joshuaallswang8016 I'm usually out here in Turnbull canyon since it's closest to me. But El Prieto in Pasadena if you want to get a good ride in. Hacienda Heights Schabarum trail. Then of course there's Laguna Beach. Check them all out bro. Dope rides to be had!
Awesome video man. It's tough rating bikes. I'd love for you to ride and review a fully machined full suspension aluminum mountain bike by Ministry Cycles called the Psalm 150. I figured you'd love to, especially since it's also raw aluminum. It looks bad ass as well 👍👍 and let's not forget. Affordable !!!!
I’m glad I accidentally discovered your channel , I’m the same height as you and have owned several hard tails, and currently ride one, how ever shows what I no ,, I’m British, live in England 🇬🇧 uk and never heard of Bird , but there you go , good work and videos , Shane uk 🇬🇧 cheers
Several months later and I still stand by that the Bird is the best hardtail. I hope you can find one to try out! Thanks for watching
Well done mate on the series! Cotic BFE max for the win!
Very cool. I would personally love to try the Nukeproof, since I probably would love the more compliant frame compared to the RSD, but it is hard to find in Norway, so I will just keep searching.
The Bird Forge 29 was compliant. You might be able to get it there
15 years ago it was the GT timberline 2.0 with a disk upgrade and, slowly updating everying beyone the frame......... it was stolen and, i got it back AGAIN its going onto its 3rd rebuild. this time as a Ebike
1994 specialized stumpjumper m4, 14 inch, Jason McRoy specs. Best ever
Bike's have come a long way
Still got my old Iron horse with V brakes on the back, Somewhere around lol
Weird as I thought the British designed frames would do well if tested in the UK, local bike brands tuned for local trails but seems with Bird and Nukeproof, they work well over in the US as well. TBH the Ragley range tends to make more sense in steel and it's translation into ride quality. (Well that's what I've found on back to back tedting)
it would be great to see Orbea Layfey and Canyon Stoic reviewed
The Big Al is speced at a 150-160mm fork. You only put a 140mm, that will affect BB height
From the website - Recommended Fork Travel 140mm - 160mm
Great vid.!
Looks like a fun ride. Going to have to go check it out!
Than you for the series Evan 👍
No titanium? I tried a titanium hard tail >20 years ago (Bontrager RaceTi) and never looked back. Titanium has the absolute best feel and the springy feel when you're climbing is fabulous! RaceTi has been now been converted to a superb gravel bike, as Titanium lasts several lifetimes. I am using an upgraded Moots YBB for my main XC ride -- 27.5" wheels and Fox Kashima shocks with upgraded components round it out into a fantastic ride! I'm also building up a Mongoose Pro Titanium, one of the best frames ever made.
Idk if low bb helps on jumps but higher handlebars do and with the low bb your handlebars are relatively higher to your stance even if the stack is the same.
Really cool video and I love how you tested everything. Why did you not test it with the included components? I mean especially with the Roscoe, it literally makes no sense to change everything on that bike especially
To be a fair test to see what frame was the best.
@@BryceBetts yeah I get it, but the whole thing about the Roscoe is the plus size tires you know? 😁
Awesome vids 👌
Thanks for your reviews
I'll likely get a bird hardtail if I can find one in Australia
Do weather conditions effect some of the results?
Good video. 📹 👍
the epilouge was well thought out and good to watch.
(full suspension quest?)
Raw aluminium bikes are gorgeous but not as much as the scout
That yellow pops
Love the test and video! Would be interesting your opinion on GT Zascar Expert. It has interesting quite unique frame IMHO?
If you really do build a Banshee up for an Enduro build run it mullet and put a 50 mm rise bar on it band just roll them forward a little bit. That will open up the front and lower your bottom bracket and make it a little more nimble
Definitely planning on it! Thanks for the recommendation!
I wish you would have tested the Norco Torrent. I have one and have always wondered how it stacks with the other hard tails. Don't get me wrong, this type of test is subjective to your riding preference. I love my Norco and could not see myself riding another HT.
Roost makes a titanium hardtail DH. It's looks awesome but very expensive!
loved this series, rly wanted to buy the rsd middlechild but I'm scared of import taxes and my phone+laptop suddenly died so hopefully next summer.
This was a really great series on many great bikes. I do think you ditched the Trek based on perception (worried it was too big, and actually feeling it on trail) and on assumptions about a big company). I feel you switched from tech and ride feel to perceptions and assumptions. BUT its your money, time and channel so hats off to a very good watch.
Try the Roscoe medium please
What would you change about the Roscoe to make it better?
Giorgione... è giusto poter vedere anche te soffrire in preparazione per la nuova stagione , lascia che lui si mangi la piadina. 😉
Sorry guys TH-cam make a mistake between 2 video i were watching
Love these videos! I wish you would have tried a Canyon Stoic mostly because I just purchased one on sale and it arrives today!
Thats awesome dude congrats! Some good prices right now!
@@EvansMTBSaga for sure! Picked up a Stoic 3 for $1100 + free shipping. Feels like a ton of bike for that price- nice 29” wheels/tires, nice aggressive geo, 140mm RockShox 35 air fork, 1x12 and a dropper. Glad I ordered it last week as it’s no longer on sale
Great series but I feel like you did an injustice to the Trek Roscoe. From the review it sounds like the bike was too big. I believe you even mentioned this a couple times. Would really like to see another review with the medium size.
There was just so many factors that pointed to not testing it. The regular medium was 440mm reach, and I figured out that 440 is just too small. The ML that I tested was 455, and the frame that won was 450. So it wasn't too far off. Plus all the other talking points I mentioned about Trek in the post episode commentary
@@EvansMTBSaga thanks for the reply! As a Roscoe owner that downsized I’m a little disappointed but understand. Maybe you could do a review on RAD sizing based on the book Dialed be Lee McCormack. That’s how I set my bike up and I think it really hits the nail on the head. Thanks again for all the content! Really like the channel.
That's a shame as I have a Chameleon - would have been interesting to hear / see the comparison. 🤔
I wish I could've as well!
you've gotta test the chameleon. I have the 2022 model and I built it up with a pike ultimate and industry nine wheels. It's something special i'm not gonna lie
I'd still like to! But I'm betting that they're revamping the frame very soon
I mean if you have loads of spare hardtails lying around I'd happily take one off your hands 😂😂
Zocheli bikes offered a beautiful hardtail and they just released a new frame and I can’t see the hardtail on their website 😢
Imo the best hardtail is the trek procaliber whit a 110mm fork whit good wheel, handlebars and à sid ultimate sl
Great series. How do you think your Xtrada would rank in this group?