Longtail Bicycle Frame Build 06 - Silver Brazing Seat Tube Binder With MAPP Gas
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- In this video I silver braze a seat tube binder with flux and a MAPP gas torch for the first time. I also make a holder fixture to keep the binder in place while brazing. I finish things off with a final slitting saw test on the minilathe. Thanks to everyone who commented on the failed slitting saw attempt. You're comments made this work!
Flux - Stainless Light Flux
Silver Solder - 56% Silver Thanks Joe for the tips on these!
Silver and Flux purchased from Cycle Design.
cycledesignusa....
The failed slitting saw attempt - • Invitation To Learn Ho...
Longtail Build Video Series - • Pithy Bikes - Long Tai...
Opening Music..
Tobu - Good Times
- SoundCloud @7obu
- Facebook tobuofficial
- Twitter tobuofficial
---------------------------------------------------
#diy #bicycleframe #singlespeed #brazing #machining #milling
![ถามตรงๆ กับ อาจตุพร ทำไม ประเทศไทย ใครเป็นนายก ก็โดนด่า พอออกเเล้วคนคิดถึง!!?? l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3YFLMXxBGAs/mqdefault.jpg)
Really interesting, I am really old and was taught to brazing at school. The first thing we were taught was to look at the mass of the two things you are soldering. Then start heating the larger mass and move onto the smaller mass and start juggling until everything is even.
We used bronze brazing rods. We were taught that, by bashing the rod out thinner it would melt and flow quickly (less mass). Anyway, thanks for taking the trouble to produce these videos.
Bicycle frames use a mix of bronze or silver solder. Bronze is used for fillet brazing tubes together, especially without lugs, and silver solder is often used for all the smaller stuff like cable stops where you just don't need the strength or want as much heat in those areas.
Background:
1) Silver brazing (soldering) small copper and brass mil spec parts w/ lo temp 4% silver solder, where I work.
2) Brazing mild steel (motorcycle frames) with brass and nickel/silver rod (gear head toys).
Thoughts and observations:
1) Quit waving the torch around like a magic wand, half the time your flame is heating the air. Use slow strokes. Generally, bias the torch to the piece with the most local mass so you don't burn a hole in adjoining thin material. Guess how I learned that one... :(
2) Heat transfer through your hold down is minimal, due to minimum contact area of your 4 point clamp. Full contact with an arced clamp would transfer a lot more heat, possibly causing problems. If the al alloy melts, use a mild steel block, however al alloy isn't going to accidentally get brazed to your bike frame. That's why I like to use al for jigging...
3) If you switch to an oxy/fuel system, use a tip designed for heating, not cutting or welding. With an Oxy/Acet setup, they are sometimes called rosebud tips. Hardware store Oxy/Mapp setups I've seen use welding tips. In that case, back off from the part to distribute the heat. Welding requires intense and higher localized heat, brazing and soldering requires lower and distributed heat.
4) Brass and nickel/silver filler are stronger than 56% silver solder, but not by much. They also require more heat. And are considerably cheaper. What is more critical, in my opinion, is the surface area of the joint. Overlap joints are best, butt joints should be welded. Good filleting, like what you're doing, creates something similar to an overlap joint. Good gusseting can create brazed joints far stronger than butt welded joints, although it takes more planning time and setup. Brass and nickel/silver can (arguably) build fillets and fill gaps better than silver solder. Silver solder (usually) wicks easier. This is one reason for the wide variety of filler alloys.
5) Brazing can easily accommodate dissimilar metals, depending on filler selected, making it a real advantage for fabricators. Check out the Muggyweld SSF-6 and SSQ-6 videos...
6) Mapp only for brass, bronze, or nickel/silver filler? I haven't tried it but this guy says yes...
th-cam.com/video/5ZD7OM1_YxM/w-d-xo.html
I think a lot of it may depend on the mass of metal involved. You won't build a bridge with Mapp gas...
I'm watching your video doing research as I prepare to braze mild steel flanges on a new "universal" stainless steel catalytic converter for my truck. Every muffler shop I know of arc welds these things together. Quicker for them, but I'm not impressed. I'd rather do it myself.
Thank god for TH-cam, this place is quickly becoming the world's best DIY research lab.
We all learn something here. Good luck with your projects... ; )
@Michael McCurley >You have done the best job of describing of thermal mass, heat control and application.
I have a 150 amp MIG I got with barter deal New in 1984. I think my Sear’s best O/A torch (AKA Harrison) came in 1982. No prior training but the family farm. We had a crank-top Lincoln welder my step dad & his father would use to creat metal bird poop statues on metal they where trying to fix. After my older cousins who came every summer from KC from their divorced father, showed up with a go-cart. What could more fun on the farm until you hit a chicken. They left, I wrap the rope around the pulley, flipped the metal “Kill” tab from the spark plug, and took it out and broke it. I figured they would beat my ass in several creative ways, I was trial by fire. So stick welding came to that 8 year old quickly. (Always the Tallest), but like anything, if you do it 3 or 4 hundred times, you get better. It’s hearing the sound of a leather belt, coming thru belt loops at the speed of sound, I knew that was my cue to start running. No child services or witness protection program developed yet.
Either way, I have never used mapp gas but have brake line sized tubing to join. I will give it a try, but with propane.
Retired automotive master tech, I still like learning. Yes, no youtube, maybe a book, and no shop class in high school. It was uphill both ways and our phone was wood with a few metal parts and actual horse shoe shaped magnets. I know, my maternal grandfather & grandmother ran the phone company and switch board. Cranking the handle would generate higher voltage to ring a bell and latch a relay (Over-Center-Spring) but the cord had to be pulled and inserted into the correct line, if not lite already. That meant it was in use. That’s not hard soldering, just memories...or learning to weld.
Also, crank top Lincoln welders, with press fit diodes installed in a large heat sink, arrange in a rectifier, makes a great battery charger, as the crank control amperage out. Best of luck with your skills. Regular brazing rod, simply adds a filler to look good, but adds very little strength.
Thanks, maybe you could start a channel also. Most channels deal with welding, not so many with soldering and brazing.
Im really enjoying this series. Ive always appreciated how you show everything and are not afraid to ask for, and take advice. Reading your comments section is refreshing as theres so much constructive advice and positivity from other bike builders.
You guys are the greatest. I never imagined how much help and mentorship I'd get from all of you. just amazing.
I only put flux where I want the silver to flow. Heat the area around the joint first, including the holder. Then you heat the actual joint and when the flux goes clear it’s ready. Let air cool. Done correctly it’s incredibly strong.
Gene Miller,
Glad somebody said something about the Flux...
This guy Obviously has Clue Zero.
He would’ve Dipped the whole tube into that Flux Jar if he could.
The solder will follow to the heat. I always concentrate the heat on the thicker materials. Once the solder starts to flow be gentle on the heating. Only heat where the solder hasn't flowed to. For instance just heat the thicker stock with the edge of the flame as to not keep heating the other areas too much. don't worry about heating that holder you made as the boss is thicker and requires more heat than the tubing. I'm by no means an expert but I spent years soldering mechanical piping and odds and end metals for side projects. Enjoying all the vids by the way. Just recently found your channel. Keep it up!
Awesome, yes. I can already imagine how the next test will go and where I can put the heat. For sure not on the drilled side of the binder :) Can't wait to do the next one!
Best of luck! Keep it up!
Great video, when I silver solder I use the Kozo Hiraoka method, for small areas, I Flux the area to be soldered, snip about 1/4" silver solder wire and place cut solder at four points or more on pieces to joined, making sure the silver solder adheres via the Flux, and heathe up either piece to be joined. Then whenever possible I pickle the soldered area to clean, but I've used sand blasting mostly. But, as I said, more than one way to skin a cat, learn and use your preference, what you feel comfortable with. We'really rootin' for ya.
+eddie Towers thanks Eddie, I like this method. One less thing to worry about. Frees the other hand for my beer ;)
I think that MAPP torch is actually helping you with the heat control. It's putting out less BTU's than an O/A flame, so things are happening more slowly. A good way to learn.
You can direct the heat more on the thicker of the two parts of a joint (in this case the binder) and the thinner part will be heated to temp mostly as a result of just being in the vicinity. For a binder I would also get the flame inside the seat tube from time to time, underneath the binder. That will help the filler flow all the way under. Good practice is to only add filler on one side, then draw it through to the other with the heat. That way you know you've gotten complete penetration.
It's good to have continuous motion to your torch movements, but not too much. Also, the hottest part of the flame is closer to the nozzle of the torch. You were brazing with the "feather", quite a bit further out. This is a cooler part of the flame, so things will take longer to heat up. Get your torch a little closer. Not being critical here. Just offering some pointers. You did great in my opinion.
Btw. Brazing is also known as "hard soldering" and occurs above temps of 450 deg. Centigrade (842 deg. F). Below that temp it's soft soldering, or just soldering.
It would be interesting to see if you could brass braze with that torch. I still think that that's the way to go here, but I understand your logic in going with silver.
Consider an Oxy Propane set up sometime down the road. Cheaper than O/A but very close in functionality.
Cheers!
Hi Alistair, Super informative write up! Sorry TH-cam put this message in my spam (again) I fixed my settings so it hopefully wont happen anymore. Everything you said makes perfect sense to me, I'll give it a go!
Making a small hearth from a few fire bricks will keep heat localised in joint and allow brazing with something like a sif bronze rod. I like to paint my flux into the joint and then lay a ring of the brazing rod into it. The joint is then heated till the brake melts and" flashes" around the joint with perfect penetration.
Nice, I have so many new (to me) techniques to try now. :)
I really like the idea of this technique, but i have a few questions.
Is this something that could be used for a tube joint?
And would you then need to build up a fillet of top of that?
Silver soldering is actually brazing even though we call it soldering commonly. Silver solder is stronger than bronze rod. It doesn't however build up like bronze rod because it flows more. If you want big smooth fillets or to otherwise fill gaps, use bronze. If you want high strength and inconspicuous connections, use silver. It is not that straight forward though as you can get a huge range of silver solders/brazing rods that behave differently and melt at different temperatures. It is really great stuff as you can do more complex soldering as you do all the high temperature work first and then go with lower and lower melting point filler rod to put together more complex assemblies and not melt the previous connections. If you want more info about silver soldering, the real place to find it is in jewelry making books. They use it extensively.
The heating is a balancing act. You don't want to heat up too slowly as when the flux is gone, you will get more oxidation. The flux should be almost gone and glassy looking. The solder will flow to the places with the highest temperature. The heat reduces the surface tension. The extra flux doesn't hurt anything but clean it off well. It will corrode the metal if you leave it on.
Silver soldering (the kind you are using) temperature is right around the melting point of aluminum. I half expected the clamping device to melt as you were working.
David Kirtley thanks for sharing so much knowledge :) I am starting too on a similar set up!
Silver solder and Silver Braze are definitely not one and the same.
I think the clamp did melt a little on the ends. Thanks for all the tips and taking the time to write it up, very enlightening.
Brazing by definition is using a brass/bronze based alloy. The real limit of what is called soldering is with alloys that melt below about 1000F that can be melted with a heated iron. Silver soldering doesn't really meet either definition.Silver soldering is above done 1000F and isn't done with a heated iron.
It hard brazing, not soldering or welding. Hard brazing has more to do with temperature, resulting in a stronger holding pressure. That’s all.
Steve! I just placed orders for the tubes and components to start my own frame build. Thank you for producing such excellent content- after watching your first bike build series I definitely felt more prepared to commit to my own project. Looking forward to more of your videos!
Excellent!! Ganbare! Take your time, enjoy, and have fun. :)
Clean the inside of the tube. You only need to put the flux were you want the braze material connection to flow and stick. Put flux on the bottom of the binder and on the tube only where the binder will go. Put the flame on the top of the seat tube binder. Once the binder is hot enough, move the torch to the inside of the tube. Once the flux changes state move the flame away and attempt to add flux to the hot parts. Don't hold the flame over the braze material wire.
Thanks for the tips. I hear and see varying opinions on flux.. I was under the belief that the flux needed to go around the area as well to shield for oxidation. I suppose with a better torch (a real O/A) setup there's less spill over with heat.
Braze looks pretty good! Also happy to hear the dryer getting work done! 😍
+Chiro75 if I ever move shop, you guys gonna miss that sound.
I used an OA rig for the small amount of brazing (silver and bronze) that I've done. Less flux all over the place and a fair bit more where you will actually be brazing. Thick gobs. Heat until it goes glossy clear. Then you are ready to braze. Also, use the heat to draw the braze where you want it to go. A finer tip would be good but you may not have that option. You are doing a good job of general heating of the idea. Your clamp pulls a little heat but should be fine. You can also use a fine gauge steel wire.
Thanks, good to know about the clamp being ok to use. Have you ever had the steel wire get accidentally brazed? Or is that really not a problem..
Thinking about that clamp being aluminum... yeah, that could be a problem in some circumstances, esp. at higher temps. But the contact area is so small that the overall thermal losses should be small. With the wire it was never a problem getting brazed but could be a risk if things get too close together.
Looking forward a video testing the strength of your work. This will build confidence.
I'll show you guys how strong the bond is this week. It's not a scientific test but gives an idea.. Cheers!
When cutting the slots it looks way nicer if you drill a hole where you want the slot to end and cut down to the hole. If the hole is one and one half times the size of the slot then it looks just right but this is down to personal preference. This also reduces the chance of any cracking or splitting beyond the end of the slot.
Nice, yes I'll do that. I'll prob go with 1/8 slot width on the real thing.
Nice job! Check out this might be some thing to try.Tig Brazing vs Tig Welding on welding tips and tricks.
+Matthew Prestine ah yes, some folks use that for low stress bosses. It is pretty tricky stuff though. I used it to attach my badge on the last build. I don't think it would be strong enough for the ST binder though..
Thanks so very much for sharing the video AS IS, because it allows us the new to the technique measure times and so on
Your question about the heat migrating to the holder -- not so much because you have four stand offs. This technique is so cooling it is used in my cookware by Wolfgang Puck where the metal handle attaches to the pan. I've owned many many sets of cookware and by far this set is the best thus far.
Learned more about making v blocks . Nice vid. Why not use a small engine exaust clamp for the binder. Great ideas though
The comments in this upload are awesome to read. Got to enjoy doing brazing when my basic stuffs arrive. Thanks
Pretty good job. Really good looking and smooth beads. probably would have gone with mig welding or tig welding because it makes a much more complete fusion deep into the base metals instead of a decent surface bond from capillary action/ open pores of the metal drawing in the filler material once at temperature. But brazing is great for non impact and non stressed applications. Just a welders opinion. Oh also gas welding with oxygen acetylene and a filler rod is also a good route to go with. If done right will produce a complete and strong fusion as well. Check it out. Oxy fuel welding. I wish you the best of luck in your metal fabrication projects.
If you’re doing a production run of brazing, keep your binders and dropdowns in an oven at the brazing temperature. This way, you can keep the heat where you need it, and won’t waste so much time or gas warming up both parts.
Interesting to 'see' the silver solder being drawn in by the heated metal - I have heard that it does, but your video is the first time i got to see it...
wow you need a destruction test to see how strong the silver braze is. nice job
Another person mentioned this too. I'll try sticking it in the vise. :) ..and of course I'll record it for you guys.
Pithy Bikes try a large hammer too ;-)
Nice video
Good video: informative and well-produced.
Thank you.
When brazing get the tip of your solder hot and dip it in the dry flux it helps the solder to run
+Barrie Thompson great tip! I did have trouble with that. Will try it.
Try pickling solution to clean joint. Much faster less work cleaner joint. Heat from other side of tube once flux liquefies then move into the actual joint.
always waiting for the next vídeo. This welding looks great!
+Raúl Buenaposada TY! :)
think as you said, use the 02 techniques, the silver alloy and bronze alloy
what is the melting temperature of the bronze rod filler
what is also the temperature of the melting or casting of the silver rod filler
thank you
Nice
my understanding was that the flux should go only on the parts where you want to braze. maybe im wrong
Your process is quite detailed. You do so many things that I would have (and have) completely overlooked. Where and how did you learn this?
I took some night classes at a local nonprofit The Crucible. The classes were machining, TIG welding, and frame building. It didn't teach me everything but gave a good foundation. From there I looked at a LOT of pictures on the internet, read the major bike building forums (not as much reading as I should have), and then just dove in. The smaller detail stuff I actually learned from viewers!
hi david, i think you have to use the both , sometimes the job imposes, what do you think about brazing with silcone bronze ?
OR alloy rod , silver bronze ,i'm looking to perfect the welding brazing on metal galvanized and stainless
need to have good result with low temp , without loosing strongness
thank pithy nice job
Hi, nice video ! I'm beginner. Is it possible to braze a frame with a mono gas torch? Or is it better with an oxyacetylene?
Practice brazing with an oxy-acetylene rig using the right torch size. You will have much more control over the heat.
I'll give this a go. More spending @_@
You can get a set up for a reasonable price. You won't regret it. You'll quickly see that it increases your productivity and overall effectiveness. It can be used for heat bending too.
Before brazing, I always clean the pieces with acetone before applying flux. I mark up my tubes with a permanent marker so the acetone gets that off, but it also removes any oils that are present on the tube. Also, I was told, "The more flux the better." So I cover the tube with flux, and the piece that I'm attaching. Once I have it set in place, I add more flux around the piece and the tube where they meet just to be sure.
Thanks! Yes more flux is the general consensus. I'll get even more liberal with it :)
i would strongly encourage low fuming bronze on the actual frame's binder. I've seen way too many silver brazed binders that have broken off.
No need to wave the torch around so much. And you can hold it closer from the start.
Thanks for the tips Mike! Alistair also recommended against silver on the binder for the same reason. Looks like I cannot avoid an O/A setup :) Good to know about the waving and holding it closer, i really have no idea hahaha.
Pithy Bikes I think you can do bronze with that torch. Just hold it in the hot part of the flame (closer to the inner cones) and move the torch slowly to heat a larger area. Looking good, man!
I ordered some low fuming bronze today and flux to go with it. I'll give that a go. Looks like I may still invest in the O/A rig sooner rather than later :)
Any chance you remember the brand name of the water soluble cutting fluid you used?
I too have a mini-mill and am going to try this exact operation with for the first time on my machine. Thanks and keep up the great videos! As a new hobby machinists, I’m learning a ton from this channel. 👍
The silver is quite strong, it is just very expensive, copper based filler brazing is much cheaper.
thanks from turkey
Thanks for watching :)
My Observations and 2-cents.....
(1) I would CLEAN all parts with something like Alcohol or Spray Carb clean or something first-
(2) I would perhaps also give the big tube a quick once-over with Emory cloth (avail on a roll for HVAC techs)
(3) I would invest in a Jewelers Torch set or Small Fridge Technicians Torch Set (Oxy-Acetylene)
(4) Once you get a real Torch set, use #00 or #000 tip
(5) use Braze rod and not silver solder and the blue powdered flux that you dip the hot filler rod into
(6) invest in a small Bead Blasting cabinet for post-weld Flux cleanup- even a Harbor Freight tabletop one is better than nothing!
----------------------
I say this because I've made and modified thin-tube racing Motorcycle frames and race go-kart frames for years using these things....... very strong, and not totally unlike your Bike frames- you could also mess with using your TiG torch as a more precise heat source , but only for Braze rod????
Thanks for sharing your 2 cents :) It's interesting to hear how other folks are doing it. I'm very seriously considering getting an O/A setup soon.. I mean, I was going to but planned on later rather than sooner. The solder is not actually silver solder but brazing 56% silver (maybe you already know that and I misunderstand) The flux I'm using is made specifically for bicycle frames and I believe professional builder use this. Blue powdered flux sounds interesting. What is its main use for application? Bead blasting cabinet sounds awesome! But I don't have the space :(
watch your video-> correct my set up-> re watch the video-> aha! ... thinking on how many watched to go for :P one question will be to see what other alloys/rod materials you can melt using that torch, I'm starting with a similar one, solder around 25%-35% silver (fluxed, plus other alloys, like tin). I would like to start filleting ... but I don't think what I'm using will build up well, and probably not enough heat for bronze brazing? meh...
Zanconato left a comment about using Low Fuming Bronze. A MAPP gas torch will heat it enough to do the job. However I may still get an O/A setup to focus heat in a smaller area.
Pithy Bikes also remember that an oxy-butane might work well as it goes quite high in temp, at a lower price and I think a safer setup (like everything when handled correctly tools are safe, but acetylene will burn spontaneously if hit strongly etc, as it is not stable at normal temps. Me I am not that keen to have the cylinder around at home with my kid jumping everywhere and with everything). But my experience is very limited yet. I found in Europe the smallest set up for O-B to be around 230€, and everything is much more expensive here. hopefully someone in the comments uses this extensively and can let us know about their experience.
Can you normalize the seat tube after welding so you can cut the slot? If not get a carbide milling cutter and have a go, you might be surprised.
I don't know if I can but I'll look into it.. There's also other options that are really simple for cutting the slot like using 2 hack saw blades together as a few other folks mentioned from the previous slitting saw video. So many options..
Nice cut!
+Richard Hayter thanks to you guys! :)
What kind of rod are you using??
can you make a stress test on the weld? like a solid hit or maybe a slow force tearing the ting apart, please :3
I may try that.. I can stick it in the vise!
watch some videos of old timer brazers to get the feel for it.
Yes I started doing this! :)
Thanks for the videos, I'm waiting for more brazing. also I want to start brazing but wants to use CuZnNi10 and propan oxygen torch.
Take a look above at Jordan M's comment. He has a link to velocipede thread on the subject.
Thank you for your answer, you are VERY helpful
@PB
So the other day I found my head tube has a crack around the circumference of the tube, starting at the lug. This is a bummer for me because its an older 80's Sekai that was made in Japan and sold in Seattle 35 years ago. It would be cool if I could salvage it, but I am wondering if the head tube geometry is off now. Also, if I were to braze it, should I use a material such as the one you have shown? I could weld it (my dad's mig) but again, Im afraid of the geometry being disturbed and redistributing the torque when steering.
I have considered the fact that the frame might be toast, but I figured I would ask how much the materials cost and if it is worth attempting.
Cheers!
+Samuel Ross this is a really tough one! I think tig would be the best option if it's a tig welded frame. If it's lugged, which it probably is, then possibly braze. I wouldn't use silver. Bronze would be the stronger choice based on everyone's comments here. For the geo, you could bring it by a good bike shop and ask them to check it. Make sure to strip it down first. You could also check yourself by searching frame alignment in TH-cam. I don't know how reliable some of these methods are though.. If it rides ok.. Chances are it is! Good luck!
older british motorcycles were brass brazed (all frame parts)
With Oxy Acetylene ($600) you can braze quickly > Copper, Steel, Stainless Steel, Brass......any combination thereof ......
Hi can I braze a bmx bike frame together with that torch
I wouldn’t recommend it. It was tricky getting the control needed using mapp gas. But also, silver solder has a lower melting temp than say bronze. And silver is not strong enough for main tube joints. It’s ok for things like bosses though.
Great videos! Thank You for all the ideas, really helpful.
I'm brazing with Oxy/Propane: lot cheaper (and safer) and same results for brazing thin bike tubes.
+Massimo Ielmini nice, I have heard of this and was wondering if anyone was using it on bikes. Are you brazing with bronze? And maybe it's not hot enough for filler brazing?
+Massimo Ielmini *fillet *
Hi, yes, I'm using bronze and flux from several suppliers and in different diameters depending on the joint. The heat is enough with Tip no.3 from Harris, just slower to build up to temperature (which is better to learn).
Big help was this site:
www.framebuilderscollective.org/kirk-fillet-brazing/
for the correct building order and:
www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f10/
for everything else (Eric Estlud is my personal guru..).
Thank You again for You inspirational videos.
shouldn't you dip that in acid to take out impurities? just curious..
I don't think that's necessary but I'm new to this stuff so I could be wrong!
Maybe a little more heat on the tube and not the clamp....? also an oxy torch has better heat concentration. .. the first one got too hot where the clamp is thin... no need for flux inside the tube...
Ah thanks so much. It's SO different from TIG hahaah. Ok no flux inside the tube (I was just being paranoid). I really want to get an O/A setup now :'(
There is no reason to slather flux all over the tube, you want it where the joint will be - the rod flows where the flux is, because that is where it can actually wet the base metal that is being kept from oxidizing. You don't dip the whole wire, PCB or tubing section in flux when you solder copper, do you?
Im sure its been asked and answered many times before, but what design program do you use?
Hahah yes it has! :) But I don't mind at all. It's and older version of 3D Studio Max. I only use it for these info diagrams and '3d sketches'. If you're looking to model something that is to be fabricated from the 3D model's dimensions, I recommend Fusion 360. It's totally free for hobbyists. Thanks for watching!
I guess a c clamp vise grip would have been out of the question?
I've seen some machinists dip the silver in their flux jar each time they want to dab the rod.
+CrobbDawg I just heard of this today, really good one. Going to try.
Ond comment about slitting saws that I didn't notice when I scanned the comments is that your mill should be well trammed. An out-of-tram mill will force a slitting saw to drift and cut a curving slit.
Ah right on. I haven't checked my mill lately but I did tram it when I first set it up. That was a long time ago! But in the case of this video, my problems were due to tube deflection and climb cutting.
How are doin PB? ☺
I thought you should only apply Flux to where you want the Solder to go?
Clipboard I was wondering the same thing, I've never silver soldered anything though? The joint did look good though.
I thought so too at first. But the solder is different from say soldering wire. In addition to flowing the filler, it also acts as a shield against oxidation. So anywhere things get hot, you want the solder.
correction - Anywhere things get hot, you want to FLUX.
I agree with you Mariusz, that is the way i have been taught.
Ah, ok. thanks I'll keep it closer to where the actual brazing happens. You guys are awesome :)
Just point the torch! - and stop all that wiggling! The idea is to heat the parts. Your flame is mostly not aiming to heat the parts. The most massive heat sink is the tube. Heat the tube then move on to heat the lug. Then, just before the solder, re-flux, reheat and solder.
Why not tig ?
I tried tig and hardened the steel in the process.. and that was a problem only when I thought that I would use a slitting saw to slot the tube. Now I've changed my tune thanks to everyone's comments. I'll simply use a hack saw to slit the tube. But, in the end I'm using a simple seat collar instead of welding or brazing a binder on. Cheers!
Why not just anneal the steal? Wood ash makes a great high temp insulator you can put it into to cool slowly. This is a favorite tip of knife-makers and it also works great on small tools I have found.
I don't know if i just didn't get it but why didn't you just tig welded the pieces on the tube?
I tried that in Video 05 and it worked ok. Only problem was I didn't like how welding such a small piece cut into the edge of the head cap side. Also the heat from welding hardens the steel and makes it difficult to use a slitting saw.
Ah ok thanks, i probably was disturbed at that point of the 5th video :)
hahaha lol :)
yat its nou tig?
+Arthouse Perm decided to braze it instead.
How about Fatbike?
Oh man, I still need to make a regular bike first. :)
Hello, it would be good if you put in the video some nice background music at the time when you don't speak.
I used to do that.. but lately I kind of like to hear the sounds of the building process. Some folks don't like the music hahah.
When are you going to learn that the metal must be hot enough that when the braze rod is placed on the metal it will melt and flow. Clean everything before you start. Also, you should have dipped the silver braze rod into the flux too. You must heat the heavy part first more so than heating all around as you are doing, but all around heating must also be done. Experience tell me you are a novice for sure. Good luck to you fella.
I thought you were going to tig braze
I didn't go that route because I think standard brazing will produce a stronger bond in this case.
Flamme ist to hot...to noicy ...Make to much oxyd...
Brass is your better bet .
Agreed! I finally got an AO rig. I'm loving it so far.
You seem like a nice enough guy.. But did you break into that shop to make a how not to do it video 😬
+David Reeves basically yes, except for the break in part. 😉
Too much flux
TY, this is the kind of feedback I need. I'm not formally trained. I'm guessing too much flux makes it harder to clean up right? What would be the downside other than wasting flux?
😳🤨😒👎👎
Really Dude...
You could’ve done some Research before making this Video.
YT does have Videos on this.
You can Start with looking into the Purpose of “Flux”.
After reading a dozen or so comments...
There’s gonna be a few people not too happy about following in your footsteps.
It’s a Classic Case of the Blind leading the Blind.
So share your wisdom.
Ellis McPickle,
OK...
Look up how to use Flux.
Awesome jst what I was looking for, thank you
Nice
Thanks!