Arthur from Power Holdings was given access to this video after it was published for Patrons. After watching he offered more clarity about the relationship between Denafrips and Musician. The video posted here has not been changed from what Arthur saw in any way. I share the list of points he made below, with his permission: "The facts: - Denafrips and Musician Audio brands are registered trademarks owned by the same company in China. - Alvin Chee has full control of marketing of the Denafrips brand located in Singapore. - The company in China designs and manufacturers both lines. - Alvin Chee has things built to his preference. - Musician Audio is the new house brand of this Chinese company. Everyone thought Alvin Chee was the owner of Denafrips and that it was a company based in Singapore. This was never the case." Arthur is able to share this information because he is not bound by a NDA. Thanks to Arthur for providing the additional information. This comment will be pinned for the public release of this video.
Needs a powerful amp, but definitely worth the money. Xlr and i2s fing destroys upper range 1k plus dac that uses usb. Add in mod hifi fuse it upgrade the last mile 10%.
Glad to see you are delving into more R2R DACs as they seem to be popping up from different companies. Maybe you can check out the Ladder Schumann R2R DAC if you get a chance, there seems to be a few positive reviews out there for this one and I would be curious to see what you think about it.
I know this is a year old video but regarding OEM/ODM manufacturer and designer, granting the similarities, chances are. and this is mostly true with many ODM/OEM manufacturers (China) as we have dealt with the situation, is that the manufacturer will have the right to copy the manufactured product after a said amount of years.
I love my Hifiman EF500 R2R Himalaya LE DAC/amp. The THD is pretty low, SNR is high, and channel separation is high. NOS sounds GREAT on acoustical stuff, but OS sounds amazing for everything else. I don't care when people say sigma delta is more detailed. R2R to me sounds much better.
How you described the comparison of the Draco against the Bifrost 2 using SE outputs is kind of like how I would compare the difference between my D70s and Aune x8 18th edition (upgraded with Sparkos Opamps) using SE outputs on my small, low powered but highly capable Keces e40. The upgraded dac is a bit punchier, ever so slightly improved at least in some areas to the D70s but its so close and without the opamps, it loses its competitiveness alltogther and sounds like its price point if not lower. Looking forward to something a bit different down the road but suitable for the amp and speakers used, both the Draco and the Bifrost 2 are options as I have enough equipment for 3 systems. If I stay with SE output, I would likely choose the bifrost 2 but have to give up playing any SACDs I have which are relatively few, but if I keep my Hegel h160, I would consider the Draco running XLR although I think the one in the Hegel would still be close, giving up this for that at least up to 24 bit 48/96kHz on optical and coax. They throttled usb to 88. Almost bought the Bifrost 2 but at the time it was out of stock and the D70s was on a heavily discounted closeout...made the choice easy and its a good dac, a bit different but equal to the one in my hegel and more versatile. Probably better if I use XLR which I haven't. More of a 3D soundstage would be the biggest goal and if that could be attained at lower to moderate SPLs. None of the dacs, amps and speakers produce a totally flat stage as each displays some depth. I have had a lot of other speakers in these systems and can tell which sounded like a flat wall of sound (Quad S2, Dynaudio Emit 10, among some others in comparison) so happy with the results I have although all my speakers were under $1K retail and bought on discount as well. Small 2 way 5 inch give or take seem to do that well. I have Dali Opticon 1, Triangle Zetas and ML 15is, all different sounding but enjoyable. I think these two dacs you have reviewed compete well against each other and are hard to outright beat in their price points. The Aune x8 when upgraded with "Frankenstein parts" (the Opamp sticks out of the box) becomes a beast itself but would like to try something a bit different down the road as well as looking good and performing well. Going much higher in price would likely yield marginal if any improvements unless I move up in class which doesn't always yield better results either if one listens at lower SPLs, IMO and experience at least. I like more compact systems as I get older and I think I have successfully done that on a budget. Considered other small speakers that cost upwards to $3K and wonder what I would really get in return. Likely more bass, but a sub can compensate which I use, more resolution and detail, perhaps, a bit more texture in voices and some instruments and the ability to play louder which I don't need. To get a little improvement in tone, body, etc., may not justify the cost especially if everything else needs to be upgraded as well. Then there's the room too. At louder levels, the improvements definitely stand out and without breakup but I no longer crank the tunes so to say. I do know the SE output voltage is really low on the Draco which may be improved with a good pre amp perhaps, boosting the output signal? That's one factor to consider unless you know you are going to use the balanced outputs on a beefy amp and how its set up regarding an input signal. Going XLR to RCA may or may not improve the voltage, there's issues with that too according to some. I think that output voltage is one reason for the difference in SQ between the two dacs you reviewed? Either way, give or take around 700 to 800 for a dac is a good price if performance can be more or less maximized in a particular system even with speakers and amps costing more. I also think of all the types of equipment, the dac is least likely to be sent in for repair especially if out of warranty. So unless one has disposable income or a real passion for this hobby, spending upwards of 1-2K or more might not be worth it on a dac, if not other equipment. I would be more likely to repair a speaker or amp if something fails and could do it locally but a dac probably not as the expense would likely be relatively high. Easier to buy a new and improved version. That's where I am at in this stage of the game. Synergy and performance on a budget...at least for now. I know, the Hegel is overkill, but I have it.
Interesting. I wish there would have been more DACs of this type available for consideration when I was looking and experimenting in that tier. Though most likely would have been hard to top (for me) the Mike Moffat Schiit house sound in the BF2 - but the additional i/o and functionality may have been appreciated.
Nice review. I held my breath a little during, as I own this DAC, and have really enjoyed it. I do have a question though for WaveTheory. I just acquired a SU-2, and when I use it with the Draco via I2S or Coax SDIF, I get an occasional click sound. Almost like the clock is not locked or something. I don't get this with USB. Did you notice this in your listening for this review?
I have a Musician Pegasus, and I can say that there is a audible difference between the I2S and the AES/EBU connection (from the same source) - technically the I2S sounds superior to me, but the slightly more forgiving sound through the AES/EBU is nice, especially for poor recordings. USB sounds fine too, but I didn't make direct comparisons. If you only plan to use optical or digital RCA, then I think it's better to invest in a DAC that has less connections (less is more).
Nice review, I think Musician/Denafrips DACs are not true NOS but its less processed and the better mode, GolderSound have tested the NOS mode of the Aries 2 in one of his videos.
I get that, and at the same time I'm not 100% sure it's suspicious. There is definitely some sort of contractual agreement between the 2 parties. I think to we westerners it looks unusual and we assume the worst, which probably isn't entirely fair. Either way, I hope viewers find this review informative and helpful.
Have you ever heard of the fake apple store with the employees wearing apple uniform too but they are selling fake apple products? It is simply amazing 🌠
FWIW, potential buyers might want to be aware of a couple of points that I've heard on various forums. While I can't evaluate the accuracy of these claims, I've read them several times on multiple forums, so I think they are serious enough that anyone thinking of buying this DAC should look into them. First, Musician was apparently formed by former Denafrips employees and the DAC's innards are largely copied or cloned from the Denafrips Ares (now renamed Enyo to differentiate it from the Ares Twelfth anniversary edition). Second, Musician customer service is apparently really abysmal, at least in the US. I'm contemplating a R2R DAC later this year and have pretty much narrowed it down to the Bifrost, Denafrips Ares Twelfth, and Gustard R26. (I'd certainly prefer the Gustard, but it's by far the most expensive of the three and the other two are already straining my budget.)
You recommend using xlr outputs. In order to jump over this quality gap between the draco outputs, is converter cable xlr to rca solution? or I need amp with xlr input?
There are 2 primary problems with simply using cables that are XLR on one end and RCA on the other: 1) the XLR output standard is higher voltage (~4V) than standard RCA outputs (~2V). If you put 4V across something that can only handle 2V there can be problems. Lowering XLR output level can mitigate but not all DACs allow that (Draco does not). Some RCA inputs can handle that higher voltage but IME those tend to be the RCAs on already balanced amps. 2) What happens to the common ground? Paul McGowan explains: th-cam.com/video/sdh4pgIteWk/w-d-xo.html There are outboard boxes that safely convert BAL to SE but they are not cheap.
I didnot agree, when doing a review you should state how many hours you put on it before reviewing , This dac needs at least 300 hours to smooth out ,it says so on its website.
A "skosh," a "skosh" you say? Now, is that the length of Henry VIII's left pinky nail or William the Conqueror's right ear lobe? Specifics! Specifics, my lad, are the order of the day. Without specifics we are little better than the beasts of the field smelling each other hind quarters.
![POLYCAT - ข้อความรูปยิ้ม [Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lBhIgPGCgbI/mqdefault.jpg)
![ARES II vs D90 vs Bifrost 2 vs ADI-2 vs Gungnir vs Qutest [Mega DAC Roundup & Comparison]](/img/n.gif)
Arthur from Power Holdings was given access to this video after it was published for Patrons. After watching he offered more clarity about the relationship between Denafrips and Musician. The video posted here has not been changed from what Arthur saw in any way. I share the list of points he made below, with his permission:
"The facts:
- Denafrips and Musician Audio brands are registered trademarks owned by
the same company in China.
- Alvin Chee has full control of marketing of the Denafrips brand
located in Singapore.
- The company in China designs and manufacturers both lines.
- Alvin Chee has things built to his preference.
- Musician Audio is the new house brand of this Chinese company.
Everyone thought Alvin Chee was the owner of Denafrips and that it was a
company based in Singapore. This was never the case."
Arthur is able to share this information because he is not bound by a NDA. Thanks to Arthur for providing the additional information. This comment will be pinned for the public release of this video.
Needs a powerful amp, but definitely worth the money. Xlr and i2s fing destroys upper range 1k plus dac that uses usb. Add in mod hifi fuse it upgrade the last mile 10%.
Glad to see you are delving into more R2R DACs as they seem to be popping up from different companies. Maybe you can check out the Ladder Schumann R2R DAC if you get a chance, there seems to be a few positive reviews out there for this one and I would be curious to see what you think about it.
I love Musician products. I hope you are able to review the Pegasus and the Aquarius.
I know this is a year old video but regarding OEM/ODM manufacturer and designer, granting the similarities, chances are. and this is mostly true with many ODM/OEM manufacturers (China) as we have dealt with the situation, is that the manufacturer will have the right to copy the manufactured product after a said amount of years.
Awesome review! You've reviewed quite a lot of DACs, which do you think offers the largest soundstage under $1000?
I love my Hifiman EF500 R2R Himalaya LE DAC/amp. The THD is pretty low, SNR is high, and channel separation is high. NOS sounds GREAT on acoustical stuff, but OS sounds amazing for everything else. I don't care when people say sigma delta is more detailed. R2R to me sounds much better.
Great! Many inputs. But which is best? ✌🏼👽
How you described the comparison of the Draco against the Bifrost 2 using SE outputs is kind of like how I would compare the difference between my D70s and Aune x8 18th edition (upgraded with Sparkos Opamps) using SE outputs on my small, low powered but highly capable Keces e40. The upgraded dac is a bit punchier, ever so slightly improved at least in some areas to the D70s but its so close and without the opamps, it loses its competitiveness alltogther and sounds like its price point if not lower.
Looking forward to something a bit different down the road but suitable for the amp and speakers used, both the Draco and the Bifrost 2 are options as I have enough equipment for 3 systems. If I stay with SE output, I would likely choose the bifrost 2 but have to give up playing any SACDs I have which are relatively few, but if I keep my Hegel h160, I would consider the Draco running XLR although I think the one in the Hegel would still be close, giving up this for that at least up to 24 bit 48/96kHz on optical and coax. They throttled usb to 88.
Almost bought the Bifrost 2 but at the time it was out of stock and the D70s was on a heavily discounted closeout...made the choice easy and its a good dac, a bit different but equal to the one in my hegel and more versatile. Probably better if I use XLR which I haven't.
More of a 3D soundstage would be the biggest goal and if that could be attained at lower to moderate SPLs. None of the dacs, amps and speakers produce a totally flat stage as each displays some depth. I have had a lot of other speakers in these systems and can tell which sounded like a flat wall of sound (Quad S2, Dynaudio Emit 10, among some others in comparison) so happy with the results I have although all my speakers were under $1K retail and bought on discount as well. Small 2 way 5 inch give or take seem to do that well. I have Dali Opticon 1, Triangle Zetas and ML 15is, all different sounding but enjoyable.
I think these two dacs you have reviewed compete well against each other and are hard to outright beat in their price points. The Aune x8 when upgraded with "Frankenstein parts" (the Opamp sticks out of the box) becomes a beast itself but would like to try something a bit different down the road as well as looking good and performing well.
Going much higher in price would likely yield marginal if any improvements unless I move up in class which doesn't always yield better results either if one listens at lower SPLs, IMO and experience at least. I like more compact systems as I get older and I think I have successfully done that on a budget. Considered other small speakers that cost upwards to $3K and wonder what I would really get in return. Likely more bass, but a sub can compensate which I use, more resolution and detail, perhaps, a bit more texture in voices and some instruments and the ability to play louder which I don't need. To get a little improvement in tone, body, etc., may not justify the cost especially if everything else needs to be upgraded as well. Then there's the room too. At louder levels, the improvements definitely stand out and without breakup but I no longer crank the tunes so to say.
I do know the SE output voltage is really low on the Draco which may be improved with a good pre amp perhaps, boosting the output signal? That's one factor to consider unless you know you are going to use the balanced outputs on a beefy amp and how its set up regarding an input signal. Going XLR to RCA may or may not improve the voltage, there's issues with that too according to some. I think that output voltage is one reason for the difference in SQ between the two dacs you reviewed?
Either way, give or take around 700 to 800 for a dac is a good price if performance can be more or less maximized in a particular system even with speakers and amps costing more.
I also think of all the types of equipment, the dac is least likely to be sent in for repair especially if out of warranty. So unless one has disposable income or a real passion for this hobby, spending upwards of 1-2K or more might not be worth it on a dac, if not other equipment.
I would be more likely to repair a speaker or amp if something fails and could do it locally but a dac probably not as the expense would likely be relatively high. Easier to buy a new and improved version. That's where I am at in this stage of the game. Synergy and performance on a budget...at least for now. I know, the Hegel is overkill, but I have it.
Interesting. I wish there would have been more DACs of this type available for consideration when I was looking and experimenting in that tier. Though most likely would have been hard to top (for me) the Mike Moffat Schiit house sound in the BF2 - but the additional i/o and functionality may have been appreciated.
Nice review. I held my breath a little during, as I own this DAC, and have really enjoyed it.
I do have a question though for WaveTheory. I just acquired a SU-2, and when I use it with the Draco via I2S or Coax SDIF, I get an occasional click sound. Almost like the clock is not locked or something. I don't get this with USB. Did you notice this in your listening for this review?
Get a Bifröst 2, but WaveTheory is killing it.
Not related to the video but my Modi comes today and I am excited! WOO! I hope I notice a difference. Lol :D
27:20 I thought my tube amp was having problems lol.
Thank you
Musician draco 399 on wallapop
you've listed digital inputs that you used, but no information what was the best sounding for you, can you please share your thoughts
I have a Musician Pegasus, and I can say that there is a audible difference between the I2S and the AES/EBU connection (from the same source) - technically the I2S sounds superior to me, but the slightly more forgiving sound through the AES/EBU is nice, especially for poor recordings. USB sounds fine too, but I didn't make direct comparisons. If you only plan to use optical or digital RCA, then I think it's better to invest in a DAC that has less connections (less is more).
So, if I have only rca in my amplifier, is it better to use xlr to rca cable than rca output from dac?
Nice review, I think Musician/Denafrips DACs are not true NOS but its less processed and the better mode, GolderSound have tested the NOS mode of the Aries 2 in one of his videos.
Metrum DACs are non over sampling only
@@sjqideez6626 Holo and Lab 12 also true NOS as far as i know.
wow VMV D1SE win 😂
Who would have ever thought that there would be somewhat suspicious business practices happening in the same country that mass produces fake Rolex's.
I get that, and at the same time I'm not 100% sure it's suspicious. There is definitely some sort of contractual agreement between the 2 parties. I think to we westerners it looks unusual and we assume the worst, which probably isn't entirely fair. Either way, I hope viewers find this review informative and helpful.
Not sure about this claim, but the thing that bothers me about chi fi is their "let's release
a new version every other month" mentality.
Have you ever heard of the fake apple store with the employees wearing apple uniform too but they are selling fake apple products? It is simply amazing 🌠
FWIW, potential buyers might want to be aware of a couple of points that I've heard on various forums. While I can't evaluate the accuracy of these claims, I've read them several times on multiple forums, so I think they are serious enough that anyone thinking of buying this DAC should look into them. First, Musician was apparently formed by former Denafrips employees and the DAC's innards are largely copied or cloned from the Denafrips Ares (now renamed Enyo to differentiate it from the Ares Twelfth anniversary edition). Second, Musician customer service is apparently really abysmal, at least in the US. I'm contemplating a R2R DAC later this year and have pretty much narrowed it down to the Bifrost, Denafrips Ares Twelfth, and Gustard R26. (I'd certainly prefer the Gustard, but it's by far the most expensive of the three and the other two are already straining my budget.)
you should do a video on your berkeley alpha dac
You should have a quality balanced to unbalanced converter
You recommend using xlr outputs. In order to jump over this quality gap between the draco outputs, is converter cable xlr to rca solution? or I need amp with xlr input?
There are 2 primary problems with simply using cables that are XLR on one end and RCA on the other: 1) the XLR output standard is higher voltage (~4V) than standard RCA outputs (~2V). If you put 4V across something that can only handle 2V there can be problems. Lowering XLR output level can mitigate but not all DACs allow that (Draco does not). Some RCA inputs can handle that higher voltage but IME those tend to be the RCAs on already balanced amps. 2) What happens to the common ground? Paul McGowan explains: th-cam.com/video/sdh4pgIteWk/w-d-xo.html There are outboard boxes that safely convert BAL to SE but they are not cheap.
@@wavetheorysound thank you,.........for kind of response one could expect:)
I didnot agree, when doing a review you should state how many hours you put on it before reviewing ,
This dac needs at least 300 hours to smooth out ,it says so on its website.
I wouldn't own one if someone gave it to me! Zero- I repeat Zero pride in ownership !
Musician Audio QC is pretty lacklustre
A "skosh," a "skosh" you say? Now, is that the length of Henry VIII's left pinky nail or William the Conqueror's right ear lobe? Specifics! Specifics, my lad, are the order of the day. Without specifics we are little better than the beasts of the field smelling each other hind quarters.